| master marathon runner 12.05.2016 23:59 |
Listened to Hot Space today,in its entirety and after attempting to suppress any previous conceptions and controversies about the album how does it stand up today? While I've never been one of the 'we hate Hot Space ' brigade , listening to it now and without judging any individual track, hollistically, I think it's a little gem. Once we can accept the fact that Queen had dared to dip their toe into the funk / disco pool it's Queen in fine form.....if you don't judge it along side SHA for example! It was Queen, once again, trying to change direction and not stand still. So QZ 'ers, without being over zealous and perhaps with a light hearted standpoint, how do you think the album,as a whole, bears up nowadays, briefly, without a detailed,rambling critique! |
| thomasquinn 32989 13.05.2016 02:12 |
I still think it is a neat summary of all the bad taste that dominated the early '80s. If you want to consider that a good thing, fine. I personally don't. The only good thing I can say about Hot Space is that it was a new, different sound from Queen's earlier records. |
| Viper 13.05.2016 02:37 |
I think it still suck really. Live it was way better! Too bad we hadn't the live quality on the album record. Some songs are good. Freddie sings amazingly on the entire record! |
| ITSM 13.05.2016 03:23 |
I like Hot Space, and I'm glad they did it. We're in different moods - from day to day - it's a more easy listen than the early stuff, more fun. Cool Cat is great in the summer time. |
| brENsKi 13.05.2016 03:25 |
1] they certainly weren't trail-blazers with the funk/disco thing - it was already well established long before 1982 2] they weren't even rock pioneers in this field - many established rock acts had ventured here 6 years (or more) prior to queen - Purple, Zep, ELO, Eagles, Doobies, Bowie, ...even f**king Kiss did it!!! 3] the "sound" on the album was terrible 4] the songs brought nothing new to music - just a "slightly unfamiliar" queen sound in light of the above there is only really two questions re: 1&2 - queen used to lead, but now they were following, so if you'e going to change things and it's not something new, then why bother at all? re: 3&4 - if you're going to produce something that sounds so muddy, plastic and messy...then why bother? |
| ITSM 13.05.2016 03:31 |
Good points, but it's nice to have Freddies voice over something different (than the traditional rock-sound). |
| master marathon runner 13.05.2016 03:39 |
...........I think k the enormous success of 'another one bites the dust', especially stateside, led them down the HS road, opened new doors for them, gave them a left of field direction perhaps? |
| dudeofqueen 13.05.2016 03:58 |
I love it too - vastly underrated. There's some absolutely awesome guitar work from Brian on there (when given the opportunity) and LIVE, as shown by the power and energy generated on the Milton Keynes release, the songs were really enervated with John & Roger coalescing beautifully behind all the noise. Would love to see this out there as a proper Deluxe Edition with all the extended versions and the alternate mixes / out-takes included as a little archive of its own. |
| Cruella de Vil 13.05.2016 05:27 |
Hi there, I remember when the LP came out and I played the first side, I kept on playing the first side a few times. I loved it. Now (and back then I suppose) I see that the bass/syth-driven grooves were very much of the time, it suited where I was at then and I grooved away happily. Side B gave us more of some of the usual Queen elements, just thinned out.. What I still like about the album is the loose feel of some of the backing vocals (Dancer, Las Palabras), the cymbal sounds and percussion in Dancer, the mix of funk and screaming guitar in Back Chat and the great chords and bass line of Cool Cat and the mad horn parts of Staying Power. Now I know that much of this doesn't suit everyone, but in many ways this fact of musical variety has allowed Queen to appeal to a broad range of tastes over their career. So, 34 years later, it still makes me smile; great music to clean the house with! |
| brENsKi 13.05.2016 05:32 |
well apart from the muddiness, and the fakersizers and the shit production the one other thing that killed it for me was simple: laziness. The Game was the experimental sound and it worked - because THEY made more than a "half-a-job-bob" effort with it HS was lazy songs, lazy writing and minimal effort - hence - "let's synth everything" |
| Sebastian 13.05.2016 06:59 |
The whole 'Queen dared to do something different' excuse is overused and nonsense IMO. Artistically speaking, 'The Game' and any of their 70's albums were far more daring, far more 'experimental' and way more groundbreaking. The difference is they did it far better on those records. I agree with the laziness point. Abusing arpeggiators, synth-bass and drum-machines is expected from an amateur thirteen-year-old who's just got a new toy to play around with, not from professional musicians who half a decade earlier had been coming up with the likes of 'Millionaire Waltz' (where all four are magnificent on their respective instruments), 'Long Away' (those harmonies - wow!), 'You and I' and 'Drowse'. Apologists can moan all they want but the fact of the matter is it's lacklustre and bland, with some exceptions ... but even those exceptions would've been the low point of any 70's album or 'The Game'. Having said that, I still prefer it over 'The Works' and 'A Kind of Magic'. As for 'The Miracle', it's a bit of a toss-up, if only because 'The Miracle' has, in my opinion, Brian's best guitar work ever. |
| malicedoom 13.05.2016 08:17 |
Just singling out one for song (for no particular reason), I still feel Staying Power is underrated. So there. |
| Costa86 13.05.2016 08:58 |
Good topic. Having recently revisted Hot Space myself, I can't really agree that it's a decent album. There are just too many bad songs on it. Dancer and Calling All Girls are just plain awful. Cool Cat and Under Pressure are good tracks in their own right I think, and I like Life Is Real and even Las Palabras... but even these, with the exception of Under Pressure, were of a lesser quality than one would have expected from Queen - a band which was on the decline anyway. Overall I think their 'experimentation' with this genre of music was a bit of a disaster, especially in the context of how much better their previous work had been. Most of their previous work was an experimentation in itself, and resulted in output of a far greater quality. |
| Togg 13.05.2016 09:16 |
I think you have to view Hot Space in the context of what was going on at the time with teh band and other music in the UK It was a shock at the time coming from them, but it fitted with the current mood of what was in the charts so I understand why it was thought a sensible route to take. To be constantly creative to the level they were in the early 70's is pretty hard going, name any band that had a ten year run at that point and had all sold gold albums? Looking back I like bits of it, I'm glad they did it so because it lead to other things, like most I suspect HS, The Game and The Works kinda came and went and I didnt really start to get back the vibe until Magic the Game and Works both had some interesting songs but that period was always hampered by the way they chose to record, I prefer Queen live and loud and not so much put in a box and processed to hell But at the time it was what was happening so... plus 4 creative people will never want to do the same thing for 10 years... |
| Bo Alex 13.05.2016 10:11 |
I think the album suffers from a poor production. Of course the songs in it haven't the composition level of the 70s albums, but they are catchy tunes. It would be much better with a much tasty production in terms of sound. Soundwise, it didn't age very well. Anyway, I don't think the other Queen 80's albums are much better. In my point of view, that decade was horrible musically and visually (films, tv shows, fashion in general). Queen couldn't escape to that. But other great acts from the 60s or 70s were much worse than Queen: Rolling Stones, the Zeppelin and Who reunions for Live Aid, Bowie, etc etc. At least, Queen continued to release great songs (not albums) once in a while: It's A Hard Life, Hammer To Fall, Princes Of The Universe, etc. |
| Sebastian 13.05.2016 11:47 |
Togg wrote: But at the time it was what was happening so... plus 4 creative people will never want to do the same thing for 10 years...Yeah but they weren't doing the same thing for 10 years anyway... 'News' is completely different to 'Races', which is completely different to 'Opera', which is completely different to 'Heart Attack', and so on. While the 'Hot Space' songs themselves weren't great, live performances proved they could be done far better than on the record, so that's not really an excuse IMO. At the end of the day, these are the most usual pro-HS arguments, all of which are rubbish IMO: - 'They did something different': They always did, the only exception was that, this time, they did it wrong. - 'It inspired "Thriller"': No, it didn't. - 'That's what people were doing at the time': Not really an excuse. Should 'A Night at the Opera' have been a carbon copy of The Osmonds or whoever was popular back then? - 'They were ahead of their time': No, they weren't, and this point contradicts the previous one. - 'Poor Brian and Roger were forced to do what John and Freddie wanted': False again. John hated the album, and Brian and Roger were guiltier for it than John was (they wrote far more songs than he did). - 'More of the same would've been worse': Yeah, but no Queen album was 'more of the same' to begin with. The difference is, when they dared try something different (''39' and 'Good Company', for instance), they routinely did it far better. I'd also challenge the view that 'Hot Space' was *that* original. Other than having brass instruments played by guest musicians and those horrible drum-machines (which isn't precisely what people praise about this album), most of its elements had been done before: - Synths: Already introduced two albums earlier. - R&B, soul, etc.: Already introduced two albums earlier. - Mixing rock and something else: That's what they were from day one. - Minimalistic or sparser arrangements: They'd also been doing it for a while, averagely once per album ('Dear Friends', 'Sidewalk', 'Drowse'). - Doing other styles, not just rock: Again, they always had those elements (''39', 'Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon', 'Procession'). |
| goose44 13.05.2016 11:50 |
Hot Space might be crap compared to their other records and they were lazy big time here but I don't get how people always say Dancer sucks and is one of the worst songs they did ever. CAG, CC, LIR, boring as shit compared to Dancer. Dancer has good beat and tempo with with rock in it. I'm sorry about FU to all the Dancer haters. |
| Graeme Arnott 13.05.2016 12:08 |
It smacks of we can make a lot of money doing this stuff after the success of bites the dust. |
| brENsKi 13.05.2016 13:49 |
Bo Alex wrote:But other great acts from the 60s or 70s were much worse than Queen: Rolling Stones, the Zeppelin and Who reunions for Live Aid, Bowie, etc etc. At least, Queen continued to release great songs (not albums) once in a while: It's A Hard Life, Hammer To Fall, Princes Of The Universe, etc.ouch! - Zep were not an 80s band! JB died and the band ceased to exist - except for charity appearances. so that's not even a comparison to queen. the who were good at Live Aid - and their (early) 80s output - esp PT's solo stuff - is superior to HS, AKOM and Works. Bowie is a terrible comparison - i don't know how you conceived this perception...immediately either side of HS Bowie produced excellent albums; "Scary Monsters" and "Let's Dance" - and his Serious Moonlight tour was brilliant and refreshing |
| Martin Packer 13.05.2016 13:57 |
Actually nothing wrong with Dancer but I prefer CAG and LIR and would've LPdA more if it had been produced better. And I actually, gasp, like BL. I subscribe to the theory they had to HS to be able to do TW and later albums. Subscribe but can't substantiate. |
| Mr.QueenFan 13.05.2016 14:01 |
It's really a matter of personal taste and what one expected from them. Having said this, i love "Hot Space" and i always did. "Body Language" was never a favorite but grew on me over time. It's still my second favorite Queen's 80's record after "A Kind of Magic" which i think it's brilliant. |
| thomasquinn 32989 13.05.2016 14:35 |
Hot Space does make me wonder: is this where they started getting bored with each other and the whole writing songs - producing an album - going on tour - writing more songs - etc. cycle was becoming a bit of a drag? We know they weren't exactly enjoying themselves by the time of The Works. Is the time of The Game/Flash Gordon/Hot Space a transitional period where they gradually lost their motivation and focus and began looking eslewhere to occupy themselves (Fun In Space for Roger, partying for Freddie, Star Fleet Project by Brian*, god knows what for John)? Like I said, Hot Space does make me wonder. * maybe that one is a bit late, being from april 1983... |
| master marathon runner 13.05.2016 15:43 |
..............it's just about evens it seems. |
| Your Fairy King 13.05.2016 15:52 |
Being firmly in the 70s Queen camp (no pun intended) I'm surprised that I like Hot Space as much as I do, but only the first side. The R&B/Dance numbers are fun dance numbers (except for Body Language). With the exception of Under Pressure, which is actually a stand alone piece, the second, rock side is thin and lifeless and doesn't do it for me. |
| pittrek 13.05.2016 16:24 |
I like the live versions of the songs if it counts. If not, I think the album sucks. |
| AlbaNo1 13.05.2016 16:55 |
I always liked Hot Space when I was in my teens when A kind of magic was the latest release. When I was discovering the history of Queen it was interesting as it added to their diversity and every album was totally new to me. I still like Dancer, Life is Real. Las Palabras. Life is Real is pretty unusual deep lyrically be Queen standards. Put out the Fire also attempts to make a point. I dont see how this is lazy in that sense. The fact that the songs are underexposed , apart from Pressure, keeps it a bit alive. Of course its their weakest to date at that point but to me its their last attempt to be creative before self awareness set in. They realised what Queen meant after that, a major rock (pop) band, and made sure they sounded like it in a more contrived way. The distinction between the singles and "album" tracks stand out a mile on the following albums. Not sure if there was a genuine expectation of hit singles from this, or were they really deluded. |
| master marathon runner 13.05.2016 16:59 |
/\ Top post! |
| victorvortex 13.05.2016 18:42 |
I can't help but love it , like the other albums it was part of my youth. As Freddie said " It's only a bloody record". ;) |
| luthorn 13.05.2016 18:46 |
Perhaps they were just tired of churning rock and decided to go with the times, transitioning to what eventually became pop. It seems Hot Space was the shock treatment that shook fans' confidence. Pure rock following departed and younger audiences flooded in. |
| matt z 13.05.2016 20:57 |
And once again, I don't get what people like about STAYING POWER; it's a terrible cluttered cocaine nightmare of screaming dry crap. The only thing giving it any merit is the brass recorded (written as well?) By Arif Mardin. What a horrible song. It's down there with their worst. |
| Sebastian 13.05.2016 22:51 |
matt z wrote: The only thing giving it any merit is the brass recorded (written as well?) By Arif Mardin.Depends on how you define 'recording' and 'writing'. Arif scored it based on instructions from Fred and on the demo he sent. He then conducted six horn players and sent the tape back to Munich. Who 'recorded' it? The people who played it? The engineer who pressed the red button? The person who produced those sessions? If you consider the third option, then it was Arif indeed. Otherwise, not really. |
| brENsKi 14.05.2016 03:01 |
victorvortex wrote: I can't help but love it , like the other albums it was part of my youth. As Freddie said " It's only a bloody record". ;)yes. but that in essence is an apologetic cop-out. |
| Toon_86 14.05.2016 03:34 |
Hot Space has some good tunes, Staying Power, Las Palabras, Life is Real, Pressure of course, Action this day. But some duffers, I never liked Dancer or Calling All Girls. I don't really get the hatred on this thread and others for The Works though. GaGa, Tear It Up, Hardlife, Hammer to Fall, Break Free, Machines, Is This The World, its a great album. The only song that kind of grinds on me now is Man On The Prowl, when it was obviously trying to recapture the CLTCL vide, and I was never a big fan of KPTOW. It was an album that brought Queen back to the masses in the 80's. If they didn't release The Works, which from a singles point of view had 4 top ten singles, they would never have done Live Aid, the Radio Gaga hand clap at Live Aid would never have happened. The Works had a massive effect on Queen and their popularity around the globe, I don't get the hatred for it. Cheers, Al. |
| brENsKi 14.05.2016 05:30 |
^ perhaps because - as mentioned before a huge amount of queen fans didn't like the lazy writing, playing and the sound production of the three albums released 82-86 |
| master marathon runner 14.05.2016 06:08 |
Absolutely toon86, it's one of the great QZ mysteries, the works is phenomenal and important on Queens timeline. Would never have known of any apathy towards it if I hadn't happened upon QZ |
| Sebastian 14.05.2016 06:31 |
I don't really see the point in justifying how it was allegedly essential for their development. Even if that were the case (which I'm not convinced of at the moment), that's not by any means an argument for liking it. The death of Brian's dad was quite likely to have been a strong influence on some of the extraordinary songs he wrote for 'The Miracle', 'Innuendo' and 'Back to the Light', but that's not a reason to say 'oh, I'm glad the old man croaked.' |
| Oscar J 14.05.2016 18:04 |
An awful album, especially by Queen standards, and more disappointing music would follow throughout the rest of the 80's. I wish they would have refrained from trying to make albums until they actually had gathered real motivation and ambition to write great music again. |
| brENsKi 15.05.2016 04:51 |
if you'd never heard Hot Space before two things form this thread would tell you all you need to know 1] the OP's title: Hot Space - a little gem 2] Freddie's "it's only a bloody record" comment both are trying to reduce the negative if I was asked to sum up the album in two words and i was feeling kinder, I'd probably say "largely shit" but as i'm not feeling kinder I'll say "dog dirt" |
| thomasquinn 32989 15.05.2016 07:24 |
Oh, it's not *all* shit. But when a complete record offers you 10 minutes of good music and 30 minutes of crap, it's just not a good record. |
| brENsKi 15.05.2016 08:36 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Oh, it's not *all* shit. But when a complete record offers you 10 minutes of good music and 30 minutes of crap, it's just not a good record.well 30 out 40 minutes crap = dog dirt by any standards perhaps i should revise "largely shit" to "almost all shit" that's 75% crap Casper. who in their right mind would buy a new car that only worked 25% of the time, or go out to a restaurant where only the dessert was good? |
| brENsKi 15.05.2016 08:50 |
Togg wrote:I think you have to view Hot Space in the context of what was going on at the time with teh band and other music in the UK It was a shock at the time coming from them, but it fitted with the current mood of what was in the charts so I understand why it was thought a sensible route to take.firstly, the album was NOT about the UK alone - any band that thought so would be narrow and unambitious. secondly, let's look at some of the biggest albums from '82 Iron maiden - Number of The Beast Dexys - Too-Rye-Ay Robert Plant - Pictures At Eleven John Mellencamp - American Fool Elvis Costello - Imperial Bedroom Judas Priest - Screaming for Vengeance Clash - Combat Rock Macca - Tug of War Human League - Dare ABC - Lexicon of Love Dire Straits - Love Over Gold don't see any lazy writing or sell-outs there, nope |
| master marathon runner 15.05.2016 09:17 |
............you don't like HS do you Brenski? |
| Sebastian 15.05.2016 10:01 |
brENsKi wrote: secondly, let's look at some of the biggest albums from '82...The biggest album of all-time was also released in 1982. Its title starts with 'T' and ends with 'hriller'. Wonder which one it is... And, again, as you say, no lazy writing there at all. Considering a large part of HS was recorded in 1981, it's worth looking at some of the top-selling albums from that year as well: - ABBA: The Visitors - ELO: Time (engineered by Mack) - Foreigner: 4 - Journey: Escape (partly produced by Mike Stone) - Meat Loaf: Dead Ringer - Phil Collins: Face Value - Styx: Paradise Theater - The Moody Blues: Long Distance Voyager - The Rolling Stones: Tattoo You None of them lazy, none of them mediocre, all of them far better sellers than HS, and with good reason. |
| mooghead 15.05.2016 12:30 |
It's bad. Even trying my best pair of rose tinted spectacles I struggle to pick out positives. It was a risk, it didn't pay off. Body Language was the biggest error of judgement Freddie ever made. It must have been galling for a band who were known to be able to write lots of musical styles. They couldn't. |
| mooghead 15.05.2016 12:38 |
"the biggest error of judgement Freddie ever made" Musically! |
| Sebastian 15.05.2016 12:49 |
I'm not sure if it was his worst, but it's definitely up there. But good old Fred did come up with some stinkers from time to time: 'Get Down, Make Love', 'Don't Try Suicide', half of 'Mr Bad Guy'... of course, he also wrote some masterpieces and perhaps that's what drove the others to greenlight his ideas. 'Delilah' is one that could've been kept in because of his declining health, but there's no excuse for the others, really. |
| mooghead 15.05.2016 13:00 |
"'Get Down, Make Love'" Which was on an album that you could say was a precursor to Hot Space in that they made a conscious effort to move away from what they were doing and create new sounds, News of the World was a terrific example of how to do it because it still contained trademark Queen and an 'essence' of what they were. It is a strange paradox that the massive world wide success of Another One Bites the Dust ultimately led to a creative low. |
| Martin Packer 15.05.2016 15:20 |
Actually I don't rate NOTW that highly, either. |
| Chief Mouse 15.05.2016 15:36 |
I think NOTW is a great record. Don't fancy Sheer Heart Attack and Get Down Make Love though. |
| mooghead 15.05.2016 15:48 |
"Actually I don't rate NOTW that highly, either." I don't either for what it's worth. I understand it, but I don't actually like it that much. |
| Sebastian 15.05.2016 15:56 |
'News of the World' is not too great compared to the previous four or five albums, but it's a masterpiece compared to 'Hot Space'. |
| Supersonic_Man89 15.05.2016 18:12 |
It's all down to personal opinion isn't it. I think it's their weakest or one of their weakest albums...and maybe that was Freddie's fault...but i think he probably pulled the band up to the level of success they achieved - so he's allowed to make mistakes. And it's not like people lied to them and told it was great. Sales, fan reactions, reviews - all said it was crap. So that's it, really. I still very much like Dancer, Life is Real and Under Pressure. And i think Staying Power and Action This Day work well live. But then it's all opinion. |
| tomchristie22 16.05.2016 00:05 |
I like Life Is Real a lot. Las Palabras De Amor has inklings of Brian's great songwriting from the previous album, but it's ultimately let down by (what I believe is) a pretty weak chorus melody, as well as underwhelming arrangement & production.
I find stuff like Staying Power, Back Chat, Body Language, and Action This Day enjoyable enough in their live iterations - energetic and fun, but shithouse when compared with the kind of masterpieces we know Queen were capable of.
Martin Packer wrote: Actually I don't rate NOTW that highly, either.Roger's contributions are the least interesting, for me. Get Down Make Love is lyrically a bit cringeworthy, but musically I think it's pretty solid. The rest is ace, and I think All Dead, All Dead is one of the best songs they ever put out. |
| Martin Packer 16.05.2016 03:29 |
I don't know why people don't like Calling All Girls. Maybe people think the video was cringeworthy. |
| thomasquinn 32989 16.05.2016 04:35 |
Sebastian wrote:I know you like ABBA, and while both I and Anthony Bourdain feel that you should be brought up on charges of promoting crimes against humanity for that, I'll ignore them simply to avoid a tedious argument.brENsKi wrote: secondly, let's look at some of the biggest albums from '82...The biggest album of all-time was also released in 1982. Its title starts with 'T' and ends with 'hriller'. Wonder which one it is... And, again, as you say, no lazy writing there at all. Considering a large part of HS was recorded in 1981, it's worth looking at some of the top-selling albums from that year as well: - ABBA: The Visitors - ELO: Time (engineered by Mack) - Foreigner: 4 - Journey: Escape (partly produced by Mike Stone) - Meat Loaf: Dead Ringer - Phil Collins: Face Value - Styx: Paradise Theater - The Moody Blues: Long Distance Voyager - The Rolling Stones: Tattoo You None of them lazy, none of them mediocre, all of them far better sellers than HS, and with good reason. However, putting Meat Loaf's "Dead Ringer" on your list and saying there's nothing "mediocre" on said list is either very subtle comedy or a result of very serious brain damage. Not only does it fail to even come close to the quality of Bat Out Of Hell, it fails to be anything more than forgettable. There is NOTHING on that album worth remembering. Even Hot Space has Under Pressure! |
| Sebastian 16.05.2016 07:14 |
I like 'More Than You Deserve'. Not so much for his voice (it's way too hammy, even for a track like that), but I do love the arrangement and the instrumentation (I mean, it's got Nicky Hopkins and Mick Ronson). Now, the video's really awful, yes, there's no way to defend it. But, back to the music, even Mick's guitar solo by itself is already way better than all the first side of HS, and Max Weinberg's drumming is a billion times more listeneable than those awful HS machines. And the title track, well... if you compare it with 'Staying Power' (which also has horns), it still wins by far. The guitar work is quite good, the bass is really good (it's real, not a synth), same for the drumming (real, not machines) and the horns really add to it without getting in the way (unlike 'Staying Power'). Plus, I'm not a fan of Cher, but she was tolerable in her pre-Believe days. The song is cheesy as hell and, again, the Loaf's performance is way too hammy almost to the point of self-parody. But it's not mediocre at all IMO ... the guitar on that particular track (and most of the album) is not by Mick but by Elton John's Davey Johnstone. Compare the way both songs end. One did blend rock and disco/R&B/whatever-you-call-it quite well (even if the result isn't to everyone's tastes), the other one sounds ridiculously amateurish despite having big names associated with it (Freddie and Arif). Plus, everything HS apologists (including Dr Wig) claim was new and groundbreaking about HS had already been done by the Loaf, only better. |
| brENsKi 16.05.2016 10:48 |
master marathon runner wrote: ............you don't like HS do you Brenski?or The Works or AKOM. i'm not getting whatever point you're trying to make? why is my "not liking" HS anymore noteworthy than the comments liking it? perhaps you have a love for HS that is slanted toward your own visit to Milton Keynes? if that's the case then i suggest that your memory of HS live is as faulty as your recall of the support bands that day, remember? master marathon runner wrote: Bow wow wow were definitely support that day. |
| thomasquinn 32989 16.05.2016 12:58 |
Sebastian wrote: I like 'More Than You Deserve'. Not so much for his voice (it's way too hammy, even for a track like that), but I do love the arrangement and the instrumentation (I mean, it's got Nicky Hopkins and Mick Ronson). Now, the video's really awful, yes, there's no way to defend it. But, back to the music, even Mick's guitar solo by itself is already way better than all the first side of HS, and Max Weinberg's drumming is a billion times more listeneable than those awful HS machines. And the title track, well... if you compare it with 'Staying Power' (which also has horns), it still wins by far. The guitar work is quite good, the bass is really good (it's real, not a synth), same for the drumming (real, not machines) and the horns really add to it without getting in the way (unlike 'Staying Power'). Plus, I'm not a fan of Cher, but she was tolerable in her pre-Believe days. The song is cheesy as hell and, again, the Loaf's performance is way too hammy almost to the point of self-parody. But it's not mediocre at all IMO ... the guitar on that particular track (and most of the album) is not by Mick but by Elton John's Davey Johnstone. Compare the way both songs end. One did blend rock and disco/R&B/whatever-you-call-it quite well (even if the result isn't to everyone's tastes), the other one sounds ridiculously amateurish despite having big names associated with it (Freddie and Arif). Plus, everything HS apologists (including Dr Wig) claim was new and groundbreaking about HS had already been done by the Loaf, only better.Your arguments are all sound...within the confines of a comparison between Dead Ringer and Hot Space. But we've already agreed that Hot Space is pretty terrible. My point is that "mediocre" is a good description for Dead Ringer, an album that just doesn't hold up to Meat Loaf at his finest. If we would compare Hot Space to, say, William Shatner's "The Transformed Man", Hot Space would come off looking pretty good, because the singer is actually competent and all the featured musicians know how to play their instruments well. But that would be an unfair comparison. We consider Hot Space utter shit because we know the same band was also capable of producing Queen II, SHA, ANATO, ADATR and Innuendo. Conversely, if the teenagers jamming in the garage down the street from where you live would have come up with Staying Power or Back Chat, most people would have considered that a fairly good effort. It all becomes a matter of context that way. Dead Ringer simply can't hold a candle to what Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman did only a few years before with Bat Out Of Hell, so I consider it an intensely disappointing and thoroughly mediocre album, despite having some moments of quality - which Hot Space has, too. |
| Sebastian 16.05.2016 14:11 |
Fair enough. |
| master marathon runner 18.05.2016 10:40 |
brENsKi wrote:I didn't "visit Milton Keynes that day" - my claim was based on the Roger interview backstage (from the original tube broadcast) where 'I want candy' can be clearly heard, in the background and of course it was reported at the time!master marathon runner wrote: ............you don't like HS do you Brenski?or The Works or AKOM. i'm not getting whatever point you're trying to make? why is my "not liking" HS anymore noteworthy than the comments liking it? perhaps you have a love for HS that is slanted toward your own visit to Milton Keynes? if that's the case then i suggest that your memory of HS live is as faulty as your recall of the support bands that day, remember?master marathon runner wrote: Bow wow wow were definitely support that day. Calm down and be nice man! - life's too short! |
| luthorn 18.05.2016 11:23 |
I didn't "visit Milton Keynes that day" - my claim was based on the Roger interview backstage (from the original tube broadcast) where 'I want candy' can be clearly heard, in the background and of course it was reported at the time! Calm down and be nice man! - life's too short! I want candy - that made me laugh. Is there a record of it? Would love to hear it. |
| brENsKi 18.05.2016 13:21 |
master marathon runner wrote:then perhaps you shouldn't make statements like:brENsKi wrote:I didn't "visit Milton Keynes that day" - my claim was based on the Roger interview backstage (from the original tube broadcast) where 'I want candy' can be clearly heard, in the background and of course it was reported at the time! Calm down and be nice man! - life's too short!master marathon runner wrote: ............you don't like HS do you Brenski?or The Works or AKOM. i'm not getting whatever point you're trying to make? why is my "not liking" HS anymore noteworthy than the comments liking it? perhaps you have a love for HS that is slanted toward your own visit to Milton Keynes? if that's the case then i suggest that your memory of HS live is as faulty as your recall of the support bands that day, remember?master marathon runner wrote: Bow wow wow were definitely support that day. master marathon runner wrote: Bow wow wow were definitely support that day.nothing "un-nice" about what i said. you singled out my dislike for HS, I singled out your 100% inaccurate statement. not my fault you go round stating "hearsay" as "fact" is it? |
| master marathon runner 18.05.2016 13:40 |
.............then go on YouTube, the footage with the policeman and "Martin josephson, Queen fan' , I think it was posted by Kurgan in the past. It's there, honestly, easy to find, still got the vhs from '82. You have heard of 'I want candy ' haven't you? |
| master marathon runner 18.05.2016 13:53 |
....sorry brenski, I've just come across your posts on an earlier 'Announce', re the pa system play. Always presumed it was BWW live, never knew they'd been dropped. Sincere apologies.! |
| mooghead 18.05.2016 14:41 |
What has happened to this thread? Whats going on? |
| luthorn 18.05.2016 14:45 |
master marathon runner wrote: ....sorry brenski, I've just come across your posts on an earlier 'Announce', re the pa system play. Always presumed it was BWW live, never knew they'd been dropped. Sincere apologies.!Yeah, I've heard the song before. That would be great if Freddie sung it, since he loved nose candy so much. |
| brENsKi 18.05.2016 16:30 |
master marathon runner wrote: ....sorry brenski, I've just come across your posts on an earlier 'Announce', re the pa system play. Always presumed it was BWW live, never knew they'd been dropped. Sincere apologies.!no problem fella. as i said - having been there that day, i knew they were definitely NOT on the bill. i'm pretty sure the "bottling incident" at Leiden was the end of Bow Wow Wow. on a side issue, i'd like to admit (to my own shame) that i was one of those throwing "stuff" at The Teardrop Explodes - even managed to get a meat pie to hit the Horn player and his instrument...he called us wankers. i was impressed with how Jules played the crowd and the Teardrops finished their set...so impressed i went out and bought their first two albums and singles. sadly they split that autumn, and it was 8 years before the unfinished album was released. Ironically enough, Jules, Balfe and co epitomized the character and effort that Roger lambasted Bow Wow Wow for lacking |
| master marathon runner 18.05.2016 17:37 |
........Anyway, back to Hot Space, - how do you think it's stood the test of time? - only kidding folks, only kidding ! |
| Vocal harmony 18.05.2016 19:26 |
What is the biggest difference between Hot Space and the albums that came before. Is it the vastly different production or the standard (perceived or otherwise) of the song writing. To me the production, more so than the song writing, was a total departure from what Queen fans had grown to expect. The scope of song writing styles through out the 70's and into the early 80's had been vast but the "Queen sound" had been fairly constant. NOTW although drier and more sparse sounding still had all the familiar Queen trade marks, but by Hot Space most of the signature production sound had been striped away. I believe that this rather than the songs themselves are where the real problems with Hot Space are found |
| Sebastian 19.05.2016 00:55 |
They tend to overlap sometimes ... and also there's the question of whether you mean production as in engineering/micing/EQing/mixing or as in sounds, which isn't always the same. Myself, I quite like the production (in terms of engineering), but I hate the sounds (as in, having chosen drum machines and synth-bass for a significant part of the first side). |
| Martin Packer 19.05.2016 02:57 |
Both Hot Space and NOTW sound very fuzzy to me, as does Jazz. I'm not sure why that is but it puts them to the bottom of my Queen album preference list. A crisp version of Hot Space would probably actually be quite nice. I also count Staying Power (like Party) as a weak opener; It doesn't make the big impact it should. |
| Sebastian 19.05.2016 06:23 |
I think opening with 'Staying Power' was a good idea in principle (especially because it featured Arif Mardin) but it backfired (and in the end they didn't even promote his involvement heavily). |
| dudeofqueen 19.05.2016 09:03 |
Perhaps all would have been well if they'd recorded the material with a much more stripped down arrangement. Live-in-the-studio backing tracks with a few tasty overdubs of solos and vocals. Backchat and Calling All Girls might have just been belting rockers had their arrangements been more "Queen". Las Palabras and Life Is Real would stand up on any Queen album as they are as would Put Out The Fire. The real issue though, for me, is the lack of that essential Queen backing. THAT would have been the material that was played on stage (as happened anyway) and would have been far more digestible to the band's audience than Arif Mardin (who he...... ;-} ) or the synthesised instruments ever would be. It was also missing on The Works and AKOM, but it has to be borne in mind that they were under strict instruction to provide material that would be chart-friendly in the climate of the day. The whole thing (as released) was just too much for people to come to terms with - this is the band that provided some killer rock, yet, here they are, trying to get us all to listen to music that Freddie would prance about to in his leather shorts and cap in some dodgy gay club in New York or Munich. Then, here they are with a live show and the same material absolutely rocks. "Should I like this or not? What the hell will my mates think?" Personally, I never spoke about it with anyone but could see what it probably should have been. |
| luthorn 19.05.2016 09:51 |
dudeofqueen wrote: Perhaps all would have been well if they'd recorded the material with a much more stripped down arrangement. Live-in-the-studio backing tracks with a few tasty overdubs of solos and vocals. Backchat and Calling All Girls might have just been belting rockers had their arrangements been more "Queen". Las Palabras and Life Is Real would stand up on any Queen album as they are as would Put Out The Fire. The real issue though, for me, is the lack of that essential Queen backing. THAT would have been the material that was played on stage (as happened anyway) and would have been far more digestible to the band's audience than Arif Mardin (who he...... ;-} ) or the synthesised instruments ever would be. It was also missing on The Works and AKOM, but it has to be borne in mind that they were under strict instruction to provide material that would be chart-friendly in the climate of the day. The whole thing (as released) was just too much for people to come to terms with - this is the band that provided some killer rock, yet, here they are, trying to get us all to listen to music that Freddie would prance about to in his leather shorts and cap in some dodgy gay club in New York or Munich. Then, here they are with a live show and the same material absolutely rocks. "Should I like this or not? What the hell will my mates think?" Personally, I never spoke about it with anyone but could see what it probably should have been.That's fucking well said |
| cmsdrums 19.05.2016 14:08 |
Martin Packer wrote: Both Hot Space and NOTW sound very fuzzy to me, as does Jazz. .Maybe get your ears tested?!!! |
| mooghead 19.05.2016 14:31 |
A remarkable claim, I guess a definition of 'fuzzy' is required. To me, Hot Space is absolutely NOT 'fuzzy'. If anything it is too clinical/polished/clean... whatever the opposite of 'fuzzy' is. |
| Sebastian 20.05.2016 07:33 |
mooghead wrote: To me, Hot Space is absolutely NOT 'fuzzy'. If anything it is too clinical/polished/clean... whatever the opposite of 'fuzzy' is.I agree, but I really don't have a problem with that. dudeofqueen wrote: Perhaps all would have been well if they'd recorded the material with a much more stripped down arrangement.I don't think that'd necessarily be 'stripped down', as the amount of instruments used would be more or less the same. The difference, though, would be a human bass rather than a synth one, a real drum kit instead of a drum computer, some chords on piano and acoustic rather than synth pads, and so on. dudeofqueen wrote: The real issue though, for me, is the lack of that essential Queen backing.That's indeed a massive issue I've got with this album (as well as the three succeeding ones). dudeofqueen wrote: It was also missing on The Works and AKOM, but it has to be borne in mind that they were under strict instruction to provide material that would be chart-friendly in the climate of the day.The climate of the day still included songs which didn't rely so much on synths and drum machines: - 'Uptown Girl' (No 1 hit while 'The Works' was being finished): Real drums, real bass, nice percussive piano, wonderful harmonies, no synths. Largely outsold 'Ga Ga', 'Magic' and 'Break Free' and was, ironically, closer to classic Queen than any of those tracks. - 'Pipes of Peace' (also No 1 hit while they were finishing 'The Works'): Real bass (marvellously played, by the way), really nice piano, synths are mostly an ornament. Now, drums are indeed largely (but perhaps not entirely) computer-generated, or at least based on loops (a la 'Dragon Attack' or 'Rock It'), but they still sound alright. I do get annoyed at the synth pad in the end but, well, at least the track had some influence from the trends of the time without necessarily being based around them. - 'I Know Him So Well': Real drums, real bass, synths are additional ornaments but they don't dominate. - 'Absolute Beginners': Real bass, amazing (if a bit subdued) piano, drums do seem to be at least partly machines. Just like Queen didn't need to copy what other people did in 1975 to come up with 'Bo Rhap', they didn't need to blend in with what most (but not all) successful artists were doing. |
| dudeofqueen 20.05.2016 08:12 |
Sebastian, re: >I don't think that'd necessarily be 'stripped down', as the amount of instruments used would be more or less the same. The difference, though, would be a human bass rather >than a synth one, a real drum kit instead of a drum computer, some chords on piano and acoustic rather than synth pads, and so on. I kind of over-complicated what I meant to say, but it was essentially meant to come out as it would have all benefitted from a SIMPLER backing as opposed to programming and arsing about with (and trying to understand, futilely) machines. |
| Sebastian 20.05.2016 08:54 |
Yeah, we're on the same page on that. While I'm not a fan of 'Ga Ga' or 'Break Free', I like how Extreme managed to play both of them without synths and they sounded quite alright. Now, imagine Rog instead of Paul, Fred instead of Gary and John instead of Pat. Wow! |
| CPL593h 20.05.2016 10:56 |
When they did "Made in Heaven" in 1995, the surviving members took tracks from Mr. Bad Guy and from The Cross because, well, nobody except hardcore fans had ever heard those tracks, so they would be heard as new tracks. They just added a Queen layer to these tracks and instant Queen hits, with Freddie, happened as a result. I sometimes hope (I know I'm delusional) that while the three of them are still alive, they'd take Hot Space, keep just Freddie's voice and some of Brian's guitar work, add real bass/real drums/real piano to it, cut unrecoverable minutes and make a real Queen album out of it. Just add the two good non-reworked tracks from Mr. Bad Guy (Mr. Bad Guy, the track, and Living On My Own) to it to make it a full 45 min album. Now, I'm not sure we have to multitracks for Hot Space, but I'd love to hear it redone, even by skilled musicians that are not (former members of) Queen, since it's probably impossible to get the three of them again in the studio for such a project. It would certainly be more interesting than the last time they thought they should clean Freddie's work (I mean Barcelona 2012, that we know Freddie would have disagreed with). And I'm pretty certain that with a bit of work, there's something really enjoyable buried under these awful synths (and horns BTW... horns have NO place on a Queen album). |
| brENsKi 20.05.2016 13:11 |
CPL593h wrote: And I'm pretty certain that with a bit of work, there's something really enjoyable buried under these awful synths (and horns BTW... horns have NO place on a Queen album).well you'll be sorely disappointed then...because underneath there's just......MORE SHIT |
| Chief Mouse 20.05.2016 13:37 |
By the way, anyone familiar with C_Matt's Revisions on Fan Mixes side of the forum? Here's Put Out The Fire and Dancer. See if they sound any better. http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumNew/attachments/201381321837642.mp3 http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumNew/attachments/2013621188681561.mp3 . |
| mooghead 20.05.2016 14:35 |
No.. its the same song using a bit of EQ and out of phase stereo. Nothing to see here..... |
| Chief Mouse 20.05.2016 14:52 |
Obviously. Did you expect a different song? To me, these versions sound a lot more natural and less plastic. EQ it may be but the way it's applied must have taken ages and lots of layers, how he does it I have no idea. But at the end, these revisions are basically how 2011 remasters should have sounded. 'Put Out the Fire': General: -Cleaner sound. -Inverted channels, so it sounds more like a Queen album, with the hi-hat by the right. -Eliminated some percussion "ghosts" (ex: the very start before the other channel guitar starts) -Corrected the end, sounds more like shoots now. -Enhanced some explosions (ex: 0:34). Drums: -Restored shines. -The hi-hat has now More hit, and doesn't sound like a mattress weak hi-hat. -More natural sound to the general drums. -Enhanced shakers. -Stronger machine shoot snare. -Replaced the choruses snare. -Not so spilled drums. -Restored a lot of missing kick hits at the 2:18 part. -Cleaner hi-hat. -Not so cheap sound, especially at the machine hi-hat or when the ride bell is played. -Restored some missing fills (ex: 1:30 or 2:52...). Vocals: -Extended backing vocals. -Balanced various volume issues (ex: at 0:23 "I HAAAD TO make him pay"). -Stereo expanded Brian's backing vocals (ex: the 0:28 part and similar parts). -Cleaner backing vocals and different priority (more audible Roger and Brian's voice). -Balanced backing vocals stereo volume and EQ. -Eliminated a "Bab!" which sounds at 0:50, like if Freddie were sing "Baby!". -More natural vocals, less old radio effect. -Enhanced the "fire" effect at the second chorus. -Eliminated a strange noise at 2:50. Guitar: -Raised up guitar shine. -Made more audible some guitar fills, like at the 0:49 "Put out the fire!". -Not so annoying and ear driller solo guitar sound. -Eliminated some strange noises at the silenced channel when the guitar starts. -Added some demo eliminated guitar bits after the known guitar solo. Bass: -Enhanced the bass at some key places. |
| mooghead 20.05.2016 14:59 |
My brain has just exploded... far too much there to pick at.... you cannot polish a turd no matter how hard you try... lets just agree it was a low point..... |
| Chief Mouse 20.05.2016 15:05 |
We'll agree on that. |
| brENsKi 20.05.2016 15:56 |
mooghead wrote: My brain has just exploded... far too much there to pick at.... you cannot polish a turd no matter how hard you try... .yes you can. CMatt has managed it....and now what there is - is a very shiny Turd |
| mooghead 21.05.2016 13:59 |
On the strength of this thread I have actually listened to the whole album for the first time in maybe 15 years. First.. I think the whole thing may have been perceived differently if Staying Power was not the first song, if the first thing people heard were real instruments (Calling all Girls would have been a good opening song) then they may have taken to it better, although I do like the way the bass drum kicks me in the chest. Second.. Freddie talking Brian into using the horrendous synth bass on Dancer (it could only have been Freddie) was maybe the best example of Mr. Perfection Brian May being pussy whipped into doing something he didn't want to by the higher force (there is a quiet, strange voice at the end of Dancer, anyone know who/what it is?). Third.. Body Language is just fucking atrocious, there are absolutely no redeeming features about it, I skipped it after about 40 seconds. The bass track of Put Out the Fire is great. Life is Real.. I consider myself to be quite an articulate/literate person but the words are just fucked up nonsense. Cool Cat isn't worthy to be on any Queen album. Las Palabras is a hidden gem. The artwork is horrible. High points.. guitars in Dancer. Synths actually enhancing Las Palabras de Amor, the double tracked vocal in the 2nd verse makes it sound like Freddie is all around. That's about it really. |
| Sebastian 21.05.2016 20:12 |
I think the woman at the end of 'Dancer' is a Munich Hilton employee. |
| mooghead 22.05.2016 03:04 |
Not that, right at the fade out, about 3.43, someone shouting 'yeah' in the background? |
| k-m 22.05.2016 16:04 |
I'm really not sure if fans "hate" The Works, I'm not getting this vibe. It is certainly seen as a far less strong record than general public and even some critics saw it. I personally blame the production. Many songs on The Works are absolutely fine, but the whole record lacked proper texture, it sounds like a bloody compilation. I think that's why many fans, who are obviously more sensitive to such things, have a problem with it.
As for Hot Space, well, the production is even worse and so are the songs. Very few good ones - UP, LPDA, POTF and that's about it. Live versions of SP and BC are fine too. But generally speaking, there is no denying it was a failed effort to capitalise on the success of AOBTD. It must have hurt when they received American sales figures after the first week or two. Ouch.
Toon_86 wrote: Hot Space has some good tunes, Staying Power, Las Palabras, Life is Real, Pressure of course, Action this day. But some duffers, I never liked Dancer or Calling All Girls. I don't really get the hatred on this thread and others for The Works though. GaGa, Tear It Up, Hardlife, Hammer to Fall, Break Free, Machines, Is This The World, its a great album. The only song that kind of grinds on me now is Man On The Prowl, when it was obviously trying to recapture the CLTCL vide, and I was never a big fan of KPTOW. It was an album that brought Queen back to the masses in the 80's. If they didn't release The Works, which from a singles point of view had 4 top ten singles, they would never have done Live Aid, the Radio Gaga hand clap at Live Aid would never have happened. The Works had a massive effect on Queen and their popularity around the globe, I don't get the hatred for it. Cheers, Al. |
| k-m 22.05.2016 16:04 |
Sorry for double post. |
| JomaDuckSoup 22.05.2016 16:11 |
Sebastian wrote: I think the woman at the end of 'Dancer' is a Munich Hilton employee.Yes. It's Brian's wake up call. Mack confirmed that in a recent interview (which is fantastic, if I find the time I'll translate it). |
| The Fonz 22.05.2016 17:52 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: I still think it is a neat summary of all the bad taste that dominated the early '80s. If you want to consider that a good thing, fine. I personally don't. The only good thing I can say about Hot Space is that it was a new, different sound from Queen's earlier records.The best thing about the album was the cover. |
| brENsKi 23.05.2016 06:02 |
JomaDuckSoup wrote:he coulda done with a "wake up call" long before writing/recording sessions commenced :-)Sebastian wrote: I think the woman at the end of 'Dancer' is a Munich Hilton employee.Yes. It's Brian's wake up call. Mack confirmed that in a recent interview (which is fantastic, if I find the time I'll translate it). |
| luthorn 25.05.2016 13:30 |
I watched a documentary on "Twisted Sister" on Netflix yesterday and I really wonder as to 'why' Queen would do a disco album? What does Twisted Sister have to do with it? Well, there was much backlash against disco in the USA starting in the late 1970s. Twisted Sister was a heavy rock band, that was openly against disco at their concerts. Twisted Sister also had most of the following and played most of their concerts within 150 mile radius of New York City in the late 1970s, early 1980s. This overlaps with timeline of Freddie's activities in NYC. Queen was considered a heavy rock band and had such fan base in the States. Freddie must have been aware of the anti-disco backlash and Queen's fan base, no matter how removed from reality living the dream in the bath houses disco bubble. Why on earth would Queen do disco, as disco was dying and their fan base openly hated disco, is a million dollar question. |
| mooghead 25.05.2016 13:47 |
Because of Another One Bites the Dust. Brought them more record sales and success than anything they did previously by a long way. You can sort of see why they were seduced by it. |
| Mr.QueenFan 25.05.2016 14:39 |
mooghead wrote: Because of Another One Bites the Dust. Brought them more record sales and success than anything they did previously by a long way. You can sort of see why they were seduced by it.There seems to be this general idea, but i don't agree with it because AOBTD isn't disco. And Hot-Space isn't disco either! They were influenced by what they heard in clubs in Munich and maybe Freddie was more into it than others because of the gay scene that was happening in clubs. I think that because they weren't all focused in the same direction the album lacks some strenght, but i completely understand where Freddie was coming from. When donne right, this kind of music can sound great with great public appeal - "Relax" by FGTH comes to mind. I love Freddie's solo album "Mr Bad Guy" and i remember Freddie saying something like it being an extention of "Hot Space". For me it makes sense, and the fact that others didn't support this direction, is what makes this album more weak. If other Freddie songs like "Man made paradise" and "There must be more to live than this" were included as first intended the album would be stronger, and the same thing applies to "The Works" as well. Sometimes we just have to go with the flow, but i can understand why both Brian and Roger didn't want to compromise the Rock direction completely, but this kind of sound that Freddie brought to Queen was the thing that kept them interesting throughout the 80's. What Freddie did to the song "A kind of Magic" is just extraordinary. And clearly Taylor submited to this sound, because after 1982 he started to write synth oriented songs for Queen - "Radio GaGa", again with the magic finger of Freddie - and his solo records. Democracy didn't always worked in Queen's favour, because from "The Game" until "The works" there were some poor decisions being made: For the "The Game" record -"Don't try suicide" -"Draggon attack" -"Rock it (prime jive) - a great song for Roger solo album, not for Queen; -"Coming Soon", same as above. For "Hot Space": -"Body Language" In terms of songwriting that's about it for me. I would leave other songs out only because it didn't suit the feeling of this record. For example "Put out the fire" For the "The Works": -"Tear it up" -"Machines (or back to humans)" -"Man on the prowl", not because it's a bad song per se, but because it's a forgetable song. And i would leave "Is this the world..." out as well. They could have included "Love Kills" original 1984 version which is great, and other Freddie solo songs. The great thing about this records is production. Mack is a genius and it shows! Despite the fact that the "The Game" is my least favorite album, i believe that it is the greatest Queen record in what the sound is concerned. The way Mack captured all instruments and voices it's just ahead of everything they did until then. |
| Martin Packer 25.05.2016 14:53 |
I *love* Dragon Attack. What's wrong with it? :-) |
| cmsdrums 25.05.2016 15:02 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote The great thing about this records is production. Mack is a genius and it shows!I think The Game sounds great (thought a marked departure from their 70s sound), but The Works is engineered/mixed/produced terriblly, and A Kind of Magic sounds really too clinical and precise (as does Hot Space in places). I much prefer David Richards to Mack on anything to do with Queen. |
| mooghead 25.05.2016 15:19 |
I know, I was expecting a 'But AOBTD wasn't disco' response but it is well documented by the band, music press etc.... that the change of direction led to a drift from what they were doing. It was successful in a lot of different charts (not sure if there was ever a specific 'disco' chart). In short, if AOBTD had never have happened then I don't think Hot Space would have. As I have said before, a commercial high led to a creative, and commercial low, it is a true paradox. |
| brENsKi 26.05.2016 10:55 |
strange how such a creative band dropped a big turd eh? |
| Oscar J 26.05.2016 12:34 |
Yes, very strange. Except I don't think they could be called creative anymore by that point. |
| luthorn 26.05.2016 14:19 |
mooghead wrote: I know, I was expecting a 'But AOBTD wasn't disco' response but it is well documented by the band, music press etc.... that the change of direction led to a drift from what they were doing. It was successful in a lot of different charts (not sure if there was ever a specific 'disco' chart). In short, if AOBTD had never have happened then I don't think Hot Space would have. As I have said before, a commercial high led to a creative, and commercial low, it is a true paradox.good point |
| chromant 27.05.2016 01:30 |
I think the problem with Hot Space is its sound. The songs are fairly good, but they sound awful, flat and too trebley. Recently I was listening to "The invisible man", you can love or hate it but you can't say that it doesn't have a powerful bass and a full rich tone. "Back chat" for example is a good song but it sounds like a demo recording, sparse instrumentation in the mix and god-awful engineering. Maybe Hot Space sounded good to Queen on a cheap-ass sound system when they were high and partying in Munich's discos. It would be interesting to have the album properly remixed from the original multitracks, and with properly I mean please leave Justin Shirley-Smith, Joshua McRae and such outside the studio. |
| dudeofqueen 27.05.2016 07:14 |
chromant, re: >I mean please leave Justin Shirley-Smith, Joshua McRae and such outside the studio. Fairly limited chance of that happening; they are put there by Brian, Roger & QPL and won't deviate from any brief that has been given to them by their employers. I don't think they'd even put it to the powers-that-be that some of the albums need drastic re-mixing (Hot Space, Innuendo, The Works) in order to generate some dynamics. |
| The Real Wizard 27.05.2016 16:15 |
chromant wrote: I think the problem with Hot Space is its sound. The songs are fairly good, but they sound awful, flat and too trebley.While that may be the case - the reason why Hot Space flopped is because side A had bad songs, end of. It was completely out of touch with what was happening at the time, and sounded nothing like Queen as people knew it. Chic's Good Times was popular, and then Dust was popular. It was a thing in 1980. But for Queen it was a pop song on a rock record. Turning it into an album side was the first big mistake they made. But hindsight is always 20/20. Easy for us to say now in 2016 :-) |
| cmsdrums 28.05.2016 02:54 |
I'm always intrigued by the braveness (or stupidity!?) of Radio Ga Ga being the lead single from 'The Works'.... Off the back of their least commercially and critically acclaimed album in Hot Space, where fans and critics alike bemoaned the move to 'pop' and decried the use of machines rather than 'real' instruments, the band themselves acknowledged that they should return with a strong statement in the true Queen style/sound........ Instead they released Radio Ga Ga; a looped drum machine pattern - no real drums No guitar solo to speak of, and little guitar throughout as a prominent part Synth based - not guitar riff led A 'euro pop' feel with 'soft, laid back' chord changes Not many layered Queen-type vocals with the exception of 'standard' chorus harmonies A 'traditional' heavier Queen track such as Hammer To Fall, Tear It Up, or even a great Freddie track like It's A Hard Life may well have been a safer and more obvious first single. Despite all the above, the single became a smash hit in most territories - was this largely down to the accompanying video?? If Ga Ga had not done well would that have been the end of the band?? |
| musicland munich 28.05.2016 03:54 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: They were influenced by what they heard in clubs in Munich and maybe Freddie was more into it than others because of the gay scene that was happening in clubs.As far as I know at around that point in the early 80's the Gay Bars here had endless Loops with electric Music wich animated people having Sex. Like this one |
| Holly2003 28.05.2016 05:14 |
cmsdrums wrote: I'm always intrigued by the braveness (or stupidity!?) of Radio Ga Ga being the lead single from 'The Works'.... Off the back of their least commercially and critically acclaimed album in Hot Space, where fans and critics alike bemoaned the move to 'pop' and decried the use of machines rather than 'real' instruments, the band themselves acknowledged that they should return with a strong statement in the true Queen style/sound........ Instead they released Radio Ga Ga; a looped drum machine pattern - no real drums No guitar solo to speak of, and little guitar throughout as a prominent part Synth based - not guitar riff led A 'euro pop' feel with 'soft, laid back' chord changes Not many layered Queen-type vocals with the exception of 'standard' chorus harmonies A 'traditional' heavier Queen track such as Hammer To Fall, Tear It Up, or even a great Freddie track like It's A Hard Life may well have been a safer and more obvious first single. Despite all the above, the single became a smash hit in most territories - was this largely down to the accompanying video?? If Ga Ga had not done well would that have been the end of the band??Interesting observations. I remember being underwhelmed and disappointed when I listened to the single for the first time. However, it's a grower and is very radio-friendly. It has the word "radio" in the title, which was almost guaranteed to get it played on the radio, and BBC radio one was very keen to support Queen probably because of the amount of pre-release promotion the band and record company did. Added to that were the rumours spread by the band members in interviews that they might quit if the album failed. It all added up to a fairly cynical, very smart promotional campaign, which resulted in huge commercial success and a kind of rebirth of the band's popularity in the UK & Europe especially. |
| Mr.QueenFan 28.05.2016 08:58 |
musicland munich wrote:And that's why i understand where Freddie was coming from!Mr.QueenFan wrote: They were influenced by what they heard in clubs in Munich and maybe Freddie was more into it than others because of the gay scene that was happening in clubs.As far as I know at around that point in the early 80's the Gay Bars here had endless Loops with electric Music wich animated people having Sex. Like this one In that scenario - Sex parties - "Body Language" makes absolute sense. It's an "experience" kind of song. "Hot Space" is pretty much a soundratck to an orgy :-) |
| Mr.QueenFan 28.05.2016 09:15 |
cmsdrums wrote: Instead they released Radio Ga Ga; a looped drum machine pattern - no real drums No guitar solo to speak of, and little guitar throughout as a prominent part Synth based - not guitar riff led A 'euro pop' feel with 'soft, laid back' chord changes Not many layered Queen-type vocals with the exception of 'standard' chorus harmonies A 'traditional' heavier Queen track such as Hammer To Fall, Tear It Up, or even a great Freddie track like It's A Hard Life may well have been a safer and more obvious first single. Despite all the above, the single became a smash hit in most territories - was this largely down to the accompanying video?? If Ga Ga had not done well would that have been the end of the band??Radio GaGa is a fantastic song, beautifully produced and mixed! Freddie's vocals are excellent, and the instrumentation - perfect! I don't care if "real" instruments weren't used. It sounds fantastic! The balance of "Radio GaGa" or "I want to break free" is perfect. Had they changed one little bit it in it, and those songs would lose it's appeal. Only in Queenzone people care about the synth solo instead of Brian. Someone listening to this work of art only has one thought - i have to have it! And millions did! |
| master marathon runner 28.05.2016 09:56 |
Well said Mr Queen fan. I almost cried with joy when I first heard Radio Ga Ga. |
| Sebastian 28.05.2016 11:53 |
I suppose that goes to show timing plays a big role indeed... but also songwriting quality. I don't like 'Ga Ga' in terms of its recording (drum machines, etc), but it's a very clever song and its melody is great. The fact it's 'from its time' certainly contributed to its being a massive hit of its time, and being 'vintage' or 'a classic' nowadays. |
| Oscar J 28.05.2016 12:11 |
Radio Ga Ga and I Want To Break Free are skippers in my book. :) |
| raucousmonster 28.05.2016 12:54 |
I Want To Break Free is a quite good song which has a staggeringly good lead vocal which lifts it up into something really rather special. |
| fras444 29.05.2016 01:06 |
Flash is often overlooked transitional tease..hey only two true songs on the album to speak off but.... that would have to of been such a huge tease for all those who lived that era and those who were expecting something of an 80s Queen II epic album with synth, bass, drums, vocals and guitar to then end up waiting two years for hotspace when I hear "The Hero" all I can think of is how far they could have pushed the boundaries of that type of music and make it a trademark "Queen" sound layered guitars synth and vocal harmonys. |
| brENsKi 29.05.2016 05:02 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote:it is possible to write about themes like this without dropping a steaming turd of a song...Freddie's effort was piss-poormusicland munich wrote:And that's why i understand where Freddie was coming from! In that scenario - Sex parties - "Body Language" makes absolute sense. It's an "experience" kind of song. "Hot Space" is pretty much a soundratck to an orgy :-)Mr.QueenFan wrote: They were influenced by what they heard in clubs in Munich and maybe Freddie was more into it than others because of the gay scene that was happening in clubs.As far as I know at around that point in the early 80's the Gay Bars here had endless Loops with electric Music wich animated people having Sex. Like this one Night Games - Graham Bonnet |
| Oscar J 29.05.2016 06:53 |
^ Freddie himself did it a lot better a few years earlier with Don't Stop Me Now. A lot less explicit of course. |
| Mr.QueenFan 29.05.2016 08:40 |
raucousmonster wrote: I Want To Break Free is a quite good song which has a staggeringly good lead vocal which lifts it up into something really rather special.Absolutely right! In 1983 Freddie's tone had developed into the most beautifull i've heard in his career. Songs like "I want to break free" and "Radio GaGa" are superb and timeless because of Freddie's vocals. |
| Oscar J 29.05.2016 09:50 |
His Works and Magic vocals are the worst in his entire career. The best are his 77 - 79 vocals. IMO. :) |
| brENsKi 29.05.2016 10:15 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote:not live it hadn't. i don't know how many "before and after" live gigs you attended....but 79, was better vocally than 82, which was still much better than 84 and 86. 86 is just better than 84.raucousmonster wrote: I Want To Break Free is a quite good song which has a staggeringly good lead vocal which lifts it up into something really rather special.Absolutely right! In 1983 Freddie's tone had developed into the most beautifull i've heard in his career. Songs like "I want to break free" and "Radio GaGa" are superb and timeless because of Freddie's vocals. but, by 84, Freddie's smoking had increased and he wasn't looking after his voice at all... almost everything requiring any kind of control, range or power - sounded "raspy" live |
| Holly2003 29.05.2016 13:48 |
fras444 wrote: Flash is often overlooked transitional tease..hey only two true songs on the album to speak off but.... that would have to of been such a huge tease for all those who lived that era and those who were expecting something of an 80s Queen II epic album with synth, bass, drums, vocals and guitar to then end up waiting two years for hotspace when I hear "The Hero" all I can think of is how far they could have pushed the boundaries of that type of music and make it a trademark "Queen" sound layered guitars synth and vocal harmonys.That's an excellent point. Never thought of it that way before. If we compare the The Hero to similar songs based around a simple guitar riff on Hot Space i.e. Put out the Fire, or The Works, Tear It Up, The Hero is exciting, fun, and has an epic feel to it whereas both Put out the Fire Tear It Up are dull, muddy and uninspiring. How did they deteriorate so quickly from one to the other? The synths on the Flash Gordon album are simple but exciting and fun. The synths on Hot Space are simple but dull; they seemed dated even back in 1982. So imagine indeed if Hot Space and The Works had more of the fun and excitement of the FG soundtrack. |
| Holly2003 30.05.2016 04:44 |
brENsKi wrote:Yep. For example, the live rendition of I Want to Break Free is painful to listen to. I also think Fred's vocals on the live version of Hammer to Fall at Live Aid are raspy and he shouts a bit rather than sings.Mr.QueenFan wrote:not live it hadn't. i don't know how many "before and after" live gigs you attended....but 79, was better vocally than 82, which was still much better than 84 and 86. 86 is just better than 84. but, by 84, Freddie's smoking had increased and he wasn't looking after his voice at all... almost everything requiring any kind of control, range or power - sounded "raspy" liveraucousmonster wrote: I Want To Break Free is a quite good song which has a staggeringly good lead vocal which lifts it up into something really rather special.Absolutely right! In 1983 Freddie's tone had developed into the most beautifull i've heard in his career. Songs like "I want to break free" and "Radio GaGa" are superb and timeless because of Freddie's vocals. |
| The Real Wizard 30.05.2016 13:11 |
Holly2003 wrote: Yep. For example, the live rendition of I Want to Break Free is painful to listen to.On most nights, yeah. But on that South Africa show he's squeaky clean. |
| Mark_Glasgow 02.06.2016 03:50 |
Going back to the original post, Hot Space is that last great Queen album, everything else after that was singles with filler IMHO |
| master marathon runner 02.06.2016 11:23 |
I can see your point there MG /\ |
| brENsKi 02.06.2016 16:08 |
master marathon runner wrote: I can see your point there MG /\then it's a bizarrely-made point of incomparable bizarrness...because - how anyone can accuse Innuendo of being more filler then Hot Space is beyond me |
| brENsKi 02.06.2016 16:20 |
master marathon runner wrote: ........Anyway, back to Hot Space, - how do you think it's stood the test of time? - only kidding folks, only kidding !sorry i missed this one ^^^ i don't think it even "kneels" or "crawls" through The Test Of Time lol |
| Oscar J 02.06.2016 18:37 |
Hot Space is basically filler with Under Pressure on it (and even that one is far, far from their best). |
| Mr Prime Jive 02.06.2016 21:40 |
After The Hero, I can only imagine the DECEPTION of the fans waiting for something in those lines and ending with badly produced synth pop in the vain of Visage, The Associates, Human League, and even Imagination (Body Talk anyone?). Still interesting enough, you can trace a lineage between Dancer>Music and Lights>Wannabe Starting Something. Three evolutions of the same song in chronological order. |
| Mark_Glasgow 07.06.2016 06:44 |
brENsKi wrote:OK maybe I should explain why opinion....if you like HS or not, it was the last time Queen tried something truly different. After that, The Works, AKOM and The Miracle were singles plus filler. Not saying some of the filler wasn't good but they weren't treading any new water.master marathon runner wrote: I can see your point there MG /\then it's a bizarrely-made point of incomparable bizarrness...because - how anyone can accuse Innuendo of being more filler then Hot Space is beyond me If you didn't like these poppier albums, the fans who had been waiting for Queen to revert back to their 70s style would have seen Innuendo as a return to form, but I don't think it comes close to any album from the 70s. Again some good songs but overall weaker than any 70s stuff and nothing really new or different....hence the comment their last great album, where they were pushing themselves rather than turning out pop albums with great singles. Its always down to opinion of course, but HS was the last album that I bought by Queen that made me want to keep playing it as it was interesting....after that I still bought them but they weren't as captivating as they had always been previous. |
| Oscar J 07.06.2016 09:08 |
Except, as has been explained over and over in this thread, they weren't treading any new water with Hot Space. They weren't pushing themselves. At that point, it was musically by far the most unambitious and bland thing they had ever done (though HS would late be under strong competition from their other 80's album for that title). Unless, by "threading new water" you mean starting to release crap music, putting less musical finesse into the whole album than they had done for individual tracks in earlier albums. |
| brENsKi 07.06.2016 10:58 |
Mark_Glasgow wrote:you talk like The Game never happened!brENsKi wrote:OK maybe I should explain why opinion....if you like HS or not, it was the last time Queen tried something truly different. After that, The Works, AKOM and The Miracle were singles plus filler. Not saying some of the filler wasn't good but they weren't treading any new water.master marathon runner wrote: I can see your point there MG /\then it's a bizarrely-made point of incomparable bizarrness...because - how anyone can accuse Innuendo of being more filler then Hot Space is beyond me HS was just more of the same. it wasn't risky/different/groundbreaking. you make it sound like they (queen) were ploughing a lone furrow - they were't for example, Bowie, Elton, Purple, Doobies, Zep, ELO, Eagles, and even fucking Kiss had done disco/funk/dance many years before them - queen were very late to the table with this concept added to that was lazy song-writing, piss-poor arrangements, muddy production, and a bone-idle approach to use of instruments THAT ^ is why it's the worst album queen made |
| luthorn 07.06.2016 11:54 |
brENsKi wrote:That sounds about rightMark_Glasgow wrote:you talk like The Game never happened! HS was just more of the same. it wasn't risky/different/groundbreaking. you make it sound like they (queen) were ploughing a lone furrow - they were't for example, Bowie, Elton, Purple, Doobies, Zep, ELO, Eagles, and even fucking Kiss had done disco/funk/dance many years before them - queen were very late to the table with this concept added to that was lazy song-writing, piss-poor arrangements, muddy production, and a bone-idle approach to use of instruments THAT ^ is why it's the worst album queen madebrENsKi wrote:OK maybe I should explain why opinion....if you like HS or not, it was the last time Queen tried something truly different. After that, The Works, AKOM and The Miracle were singles plus filler. Not saying some of the filler wasn't good but they weren't treading any new water.master marathon runner wrote: I can see your point there MG /\then it's a bizarrely-made point of incomparable bizarrness...because - how anyone can accuse Innuendo of being more filler then Hot Space is beyond me |
| Mark_Glasgow 17.06.2016 10:17 |
brENsKi wrote:I disagree, but its just a difference of opinion. It was the last album that I played for months after I bought it, everything after I thought had much more bland filler.Mark_Glasgow wrote:you talk like The Game never happened! HS was just more of the same. it wasn't risky/different/groundbreaking. you make it sound like they (queen) were ploughing a lone furrow - they were't for example, Bowie, Elton, Purple, Doobies, Zep, ELO, Eagles, and even fucking Kiss had done disco/funk/dance many years before them - queen were very late to the table with this concept added to that was lazy song-writing, piss-poor arrangements, muddy production, and a bone-idle approach to use of instruments THAT ^ is why it's the worst album queen madebrENsKi wrote:OK maybe I should explain why opinion....if you like HS or not, it was the last time Queen tried something truly different. After that, The Works, AKOM and The Miracle were singles plus filler. Not saying some of the filler wasn't good but they weren't treading any new water.master marathon runner wrote: I can see your point there MG /\then it's a bizarrely-made point of incomparable bizarrness...because - how anyone can accuse Innuendo of being more filler then Hot Space is beyond me |
| AlbaNo1 18.06.2016 09:13 |
luthorn wrote:How is The Game like Hot Space? The Game has more of an American rock n roll feel, Hot Space is more like euro cheese discobrENsKi wrote:That sounds about rightMark_Glasgow wrote:you talk like The Game never happened! HS was just more of the same. it wasn't risky/different/groundbreaking. you make it sound like they (queen) were ploughing a lone furrow - they were't for example, Bowie, Elton, Purple, Doobies, Zep, ELO, Eagles, and even fucking Kiss had done disco/funk/dance many years before them - queen were very late to the table with this concept added to that was lazy song-writing, piss-poor arrangements, muddy production, and a bone-idle approach to use of instruments THAT ^ is why it's the worst album queen madebrENsKi wrote:OK maybe I should explain why opinion....if you like HS or not, it was the last time Queen tried something truly different. After that, The Works, AKOM and The Miracle were singles plus filler. Not saying some of the filler wasn't good but they weren't treading any new water.master marathon runner wrote: I can see your point there MG /\then it's a bizarrely-made point of incomparable bizarrness...because - how anyone can accuse Innuendo of being more filler then Hot Space is beyond me |
| brENsKi 28.06.2016 11:52 |
^^ my comment stands up. i never said The Game and Hot Space were the same. I said HS was more of the same. The dance/soul/disco type sounds on HS echoed, "dust" "dragon attack" and "don't try suicide" "Calling All Girls" and "Action" are very similar in feel to "Need Your Loving" "Rock It" and "Coming Soon" Both albums have a couple of ballad standards: "Sail Away" & "Save Me" vs "Las Palabras" & "Life Is Real" so i think there's plenty "more of the same" in terms of repeated ideas/themes - only second time round it was lazily cobbled together |
| Sebastian 28.06.2016 12:08 |
Totally! |
| musicland munich 28.06.2016 12:59 |
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| AlbaNo1 28.06.2016 13:01 |
Totally what? Need your loving and Rock it sound like traditional rock and roll to me. Indeed the cover and image suggest pastiche rock n roll. The bass heavy songs on the game are a lot sparse and have some aggression in the performance.. The first three or four songs on Hot Space aren't like that. In u2 terms The Game is Rattle and Hum. Hot Space is Pop. The album that made u2 risk averse ever after. |
| musicland munich 28.06.2016 13:02 |
Just listened to Elton John's "Victim of Love" Album...now that's a little gem my friends....:) |
| Sebastian 06.07.2016 11:29 |
By the way: link There, crystal clear: John didn't like it. Source: John himself. |
| brENsKi 08.07.2016 16:09 |
musicland munich wrote: Just listened to Elton John's "Victim of Love" Album...now that's a little gem my friends....:)shame people have no concept of what a "little gem" is nice shout btw. i'd add bowie - diamond dogs boston - 3rd stage sammy hagar - danger zone jellyfish - bellybutton |
| AlbaNo1 16.07.2016 10:16 |
Yes good calls if the "concept" of the thread was what other random collection of albums have people listened to this month |
| matt z 17.07.2016 04:24 |
oh is that what this is about? well.... I'd also suggest: Esperanza Spalding : Emily's D+Evolution (*phenomenal: borderline jazz/rock/prog/concept, farking delicious music for your ears) Prince's last album: Hit And Run Phase II was very good as well, even if a handful sound like old demos reworked; it's not entirely new to Prince to do that. avoid Phase I though; the idea of Josh Weldon producing an album to sound "modern" totally was a boat load of -ish except X's face and "1,000 X's and O's" (an Al Green styled smooth jam) |
| AlbaNo1 17.07.2016 09:03 |
Interesting I like the way Ms Spalding handles a double bass |
| master marathon runner 17.07.2016 12:34 |
Bowie - Aladin Sane Sensational Alex Harvey Band - Next The Beatles - The White Album ( I feel a tangent thread coming on.........that's good, nothing wrong with that ) |
| BETA215 18.07.2016 13:59 |
Big gems? Artaud - Luis Alberto Spinetta Bocanada - Gustavo Cerati Clix Modernos - Charly García Signos (brunogorski knows hahaha), or Canción Animal - Soda Stereo |
| miraclesteinway 24.07.2016 17:19 |
In the 1980s Queen went through a period of producing some really not great albums with some good songs on them. IMHO their last great album was The Game, and then it was patchy up to and including The Miracle. Hot Space has some nice moments - all the albums do - but on the whole I don't think it's a great album. It has some cool moments, but it also has some absolute shit on it too. I don't like Action This Day for instance, and Las Palabras De Amor actually just misses being a good song in my opinion. LPDA is, to me, a boring song badly sung, sits right on his break and he (Freddie) sounds a bit strained on it despite it being nowhere near the top of his range. I quite like Cool Cat, I don't know why, I know it's not their best song, but for some reason I've a soft spot for it and I've no idea why. Same with Calling All Girls. There's something about it I quite like, even though I know its a shitty song. On the whole Hot Space sounds like they're rock musicians trying to do funk, and it doesn't work. Actually it's one of the few Queen albums you could put on as background music and not really listen to. Most of the others you have to take time out to hear. For me, The Works is better but still patchy, Magic is ropey although the legendary tour makes it quite an important milestone in Queen's career, and the fact it's tied up to the film, and Freddie actually sounds epic on it. The Miracle I could have done without, although I like one or two songs on it, but generally it's not great, and I'd rather listen to Barcelona. Innuendo is a great album with a couple of hairy moments on it, although in context of what was happening that can be forgiven and even admired, and Made In Heaven is too difficult to say - I sometimes wonder what would have taken shape had Freddie survived into combination therapy (as some people did actually), and they had 10 new songs. By the way, I'm not trying to derail the thread or talk about Freddie's illness, I'm just kind of putting Hot Space into context. Hot Space was kind of the middle of the worst period for Queen as a band, that 1982-1984 period was not a good time for relations in the band and looking back you can hear they're just holding it together. At the time though, most probably thought they were just making some albums that weren't on form and dated too quickly. |