| greaserkat 02.12.2015 15:19 |
This one happened in San Bernardino, California. It is about 60 miles east of Los Angeles. I'm very familiar with this area growing up playing soccer (football) on their complexes. No words... link |
| *goodco* 02.12.2015 15:30 |
from 1982-present day link This doesn't even take into account the '1 dead/4 injured' type of shootings that take place almost monthly in Baltimore (or insert Detroit, DC, Philly, Chicago, et al) UNC was in lockdown earlier. Washington College in Maryland (that my niece attends) was in lockdown for a week last month. It also doesn't have the nut in Colorado Springs listed from last week, or.......... |
| magicalfreddiemercury 02.12.2015 19:12 |
It's been three years since a madman gunned down 20 young children while they huddled in their classrooms. In heartbreak and agony, their grieving parents pleaded for gun reform, and those parents were shut down. Completely. Within the past few months, a news reporter and her cameraman were shot to death live on TV. The reporter's father vowed that politicians would listen to him and make changes to gun laws. Nothing happened. Other news made the headlines and the limited attention span of the American public shifted, their outrage forgotten, their demands for gun reform morphing into talks of boycotting Starbucks because of the supposed anti-christmas design of their coffee cups. The only rallying cry that's been sustained from the beginning has been the one insisting everyone should be armed as a way to deter other would-be shooters. If we, as a country, can watch children die, watch a man and a woman die during a live segment of the morning news, and not relentlessly demand change, then these shootings are going to continue to occur and we have no one to blame but ourselves. |
| The Real Wizard 02.12.2015 22:35 |
With each passing shooting, the lobbyists win again. America - if you want anything to change, stop voting for politicians who are in the NRA's back pocket. But America is more interested in the second amendment than the 30,000 gun deaths they see annually. Even if we blame the politicians, there's a bigger problem - nobody is protesting. You can bet your life that if any other remotely civilized country saw 1 in 10,000 of their citizens (do the math, folks) were gunned down every year, people would be quitting their jobs and taking to the streets. But not in America. 99% of the people are lovely, but completely ignorant of affairs both domestically and outside their borders. They're bought off with news about Kim Kardashian and their new iPhone that can make pancakes. And it's only going to get worse. Buckle up - it's going to be a bumpy ride. And just make sure it's not you. |
| pittrek 03.12.2015 05:34 |
And the killers were muslims. What a shock. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 03.12.2015 06:08 |
pittrek wrote: And the killers were muslims. What a shock. Actually, it was a shock to me. I expected Christian fundamentalists. Seems crazy and depraved comes from all sides. Beyond that, I love the Daily News front page. Brilliant and bold. I just might have to buy a subscription. Here's the article - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/gop-candidates-call-prayers-calf-massacre-article-1.2453261 Here's the front page:. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 03.12.2015 06:13 |
Double post. |
| *goodco* 03.12.2015 08:44 |
pittrek wrote: And the killers were muslims. What a shock.Charleston, SC church...Caucasian Sandy Hook, NY school....Caucasian DeKalb, IL university....Caucasian Aurora, CO movie theater....Caucasian Roseberg, OR community college....Caucasian Just type in a state with 'mass shooting' after it into google, and who do you find as the shooters? We've only had 355 mass shootings THIS YEAR. Muslims probably account for two. This is such an odd one. A married couple, drop off their six month old with his grandmother, heads to his work xmas party at a rented area, leaves and walks back in with his wife, and wastes 'fellow' employees (that he'd worked with for five years) who had thrown a baby shower for him months earlier. We'll find out more later about her, and what sort of brainwashing took place this year. oh, and WE know how to make these incidents less common, but are stalled by the 10% brick wall. People of both political parties are in agreement of certain changes needed, but the brick wall (NRA) politicians won't budge. Rather than action, it is always 'HOPES AND PRAYERS'....... |
| Costa86 03.12.2015 09:02 |
Offering prayers is probably the most useless and idiotic thing anyone can do. The only reason politicians in the US invoke that sort of God-related inanity is because it offers some outdated symbol of devotion to God, which appeals to the many brain dead Americans. Not only does it do absolutely nothing to alleviate the pain of the victims and their families, but it also perpetuates the unbelievably backward belief that there is some God who is able to control things according to his whims and fancies, but somehow might decide to do certain things differently if he receives prayers from people. It makes me cringe everytime some piece of shit politician, or anyone for that matter, says that they'll be "praying" for people involved in these tragedies. It also highlights the complete lack of intelligence and logical thinking in people who actually believe this bullcrap - if God will help someone simply because you pray for them, why did he let the event happen in the first place? Prayer serves two purposes folks: to make the person praying feel better about him/herself; and to uphold stupid religious dogmas which are still pervasive in the US, and will continue to be as long as useless people like Obama keep proclaiming their belief in a man in the sky. |
| *goodco* 03.12.2015 11:20 |
^ He did offer up a plan back in 2013, hoping for some discussions, and for a proposal to be enacted for him to sign. link The Dems worked on a proposal, but .....nothing has ever made it to a vote, because it is constantly blocked. There was a fairly reasonable law for years, called 'The Brady Bill'....named for Reagan's WH Secretary who was severely injured during the assassination attempt (which even Reagan and Bush 41 agreed on). Took a dozen years to enact.....and then GW let the assault weapon ban slide in 2004. 'You can be on the no-fly list, but it's un-American for you to have your gawd given rights to a gun taken away.' oy |
| matt z 03.12.2015 19:13 |
*goodco* wrote: ^ He did offer up a plan back in 2013, hoping for some discussions, and for a proposal to be enacted for him to sign. link The Dems worked on a proposal, but .....nothing has ever made it to a vote, because it is constantly blocked. There was a fairly reasonable law for years, called 'The Brady Bill'....named for Reagan's WH Secretary who was severely injured during the assassination attempt (which even Reagan and Bush 41 agreed on). Took a dozen years to enact.....and then GW let the assault weapon ban slide in 2004. 'You can be on the no-fly list, but it's un-American for you to have your gawd given rights to a gun taken away.' oyThe USA constitutes a large geographic body. Any attempt to enforce anti gun legislation might be met with significant violence in the red states |
| Saint Jiub 03.12.2015 19:54 |
matt z wrote:The killing couple bought their assault weapons legally.*goodco* wrote: ^ He did offer up a plan back in 2013, hoping for some discussions, and for a proposal to be enacted for him to sign. link The Dems worked on a proposal, but .....nothing has ever made it to a vote, because it is constantly blocked. There was a fairly reasonable law for years, called 'The Brady Bill'....named for Reagan's WH Secretary who was severely injured during the assassination attempt (which even Reagan and Bush 41 agreed on). Took a dozen years to enact.....and then GW let the assault weapon ban slide in 2004. 'You can be on the no-fly list, but it's un-American for you to have your gawd given rights to a gun taken away.' oyThe USA constitutes a large geographic body. Any attempt to enforce anti gun legislation might be met with significant violence in the red states What about banning assualt weapons? They were illegal back in 2004. |
| YourValentine 04.12.2015 03:06 |
There is a reason why assault weapons are called assault weapons and not "self-defense weapons" |
| thomasquinn 32989 04.12.2015 06:40 |
pittrek wrote: And the killers were muslims. What a shock.Earlier this week, a Christian anti-Obama fanatic killed 3 and injured 9 at a Planned Parenthood clinic. Immediately, the American Christian right began looking for excuses - he was actually a "transgender leftist activist" (Ted Cruz), Planned Parenthood was " the real culprit behind this violence" (Colorado State Representative JoAnn Windholz). American conservative Christian groups (translation: dangerous violent extremist Christian nutjobs) have come up with apologetics to justify this act of terrorism. In fact, you can't even call it terrorism. Some even call it patriotism. But you, Pittrek, choose to ignore the far-right and Christian violence. You only come crawling out of the woodwork to spew your Islamophobe gall. So what is it, Pittrek? Are you a racist? Or, as I suspect, are you merely a dumb, scared little man who doesn't have a clue about reality but likes to spew his fact-free bigoted gall nonetheless? I've had it with the scum who try to pin everything on Muslims when, in fact, these past fifteen years fundamentalist Christians have been effectively destroying our secular society. I live in a civilized European country, and I experience the efforts of ultra-conservative Christians to force their religious views on society on a daily basis. It's much worse in America and in other European countries. And people like you are helping these Christian fanatics by deflecting attention to Muslims. You're doing Anders Breivik's propaganda-work for him. Fuck you, you pathetic piece of shit. |
| thomasquinn 32989 04.12.2015 06:45 |
matt z wrote:Sadly, gun-fetishes aren't limited to the red states. Even a guy like Bernie Sanders, who's as far to the left as a Democratic candidate is going to get, is a gun-loving nut.*goodco* wrote: ^ He did offer up a plan back in 2013, hoping for some discussions, and for a proposal to be enacted for him to sign. link The Dems worked on a proposal, but .....nothing has ever made it to a vote, because it is constantly blocked. There was a fairly reasonable law for years, called 'The Brady Bill'....named for Reagan's WH Secretary who was severely injured during the assassination attempt (which even Reagan and Bush 41 agreed on). Took a dozen years to enact.....and then GW let the assault weapon ban slide in 2004. 'You can be on the no-fly list, but it's un-American for you to have your gawd given rights to a gun taken away.' oyThe USA constitutes a large geographic body. Any attempt to enforce anti gun legislation might be met with significant violence in the red states |
| YourValentine 04.12.2015 08:01 |
You should calm down, thomasquinn. Pittrek's post really does not justify your outburst, mainly not the name-calling. In no way did he support any Christian fundamentalists or pin any other mass shootings on muslims. I live in Europe and no Christian fundamentalists have been growing and gaining influence in my country. As yet, we have had exclusively Nazi terrorist activities and no Christian fundamentalist or Islamistic terror but this may end soon because today our Parliament voted for sending reconnaisance aircrafts to Syria, so maybe they make us a target. As to Anders Breivik - I think the verdict if he was really a Christian fundamentalist or just a mental case is still open. Last I heard of him was that he prays to god Odin. Obviously, he sent a letter of support to Beate Zschäpe who is on trial for 10 Nazi murders, she is certainly not a Christian in any way. To tell pittrek that he is paving the way for such a nutcase by pointing out that the shooters in California were Muslims - which in fact they were - is really a little far fetched. |
| Chief Mouse 06.12.2015 02:30 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote:Wow!pittrek wrote: And the killers were muslims. What a shock.Earlier this week, a Christian anti-Obama fanatic killed 3 and injured 9 at a Planned Parenthood clinic. Immediately, the American Christian right began looking for excuses - he was actually a "transgender leftist activist" (Ted Cruz), Planned Parenthood was " the real culprit behind this violence" (Colorado State Representative JoAnn Windholz). American conservative Christian groups (translation: dangerous violent extremist Christian nutjobs) have come up with apologetics to justify this act of terrorism. In fact, you can't even call it terrorism. Some even call it patriotism. But you, Pittrek, choose to ignore the far-right and Christian violence. You only come crawling out of the woodwork to spew your Islamophobe gall. So what is it, Pittrek? Are you a racist? Or, as I suspect, are you merely a dumb, scared little man who doesn't have a clue about reality but likes to spew his fact-free bigoted gall nonetheless? I've had it with the scum who try to pin everything on Muslims when, in fact, these past fifteen years fundamentalist Christians have been effectively destroying our secular society. I live in a civilized European country, and I experience the efforts of ultra-conservative Christians to force their religious views on society on a daily basis. It's much worse in America and in other European countries. And people like you are helping these Christian fanatics by deflecting attention to Muslims. You're doing Anders Breivik's propaganda-work for him. Fuck you, you pathetic piece of shit. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 08.12.2015 07:34 |
Is there someplace Americans can go to apologize for the hateful rhetoric coming from our country? Seriously, how awful do comments from Trump and Cruz, and cheers from their supporters, look to people around the world? Does it look like this entire country stands with these disgusting men or like they're anomalies? Was Obama's call for common sense heard as policy or muted by these idiots? |
| brENsKi 08.12.2015 08:31 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote:Casper, you've taken Pitrek's comments out of context. YOU knew exactly what he was referring to, and his comments are (largely) accurate.pittrek wrote: And the killers were muslims. What a shock.But you, Pittrek, choose to ignore the far-right and Christian violence. You only come crawling out of the woodwork to spew your Islamophobe gall. So what is it, Pittrek? Are you a racist? Or, as I suspect, are you merely a dumb, scared little man who doesn't have a clue about reality but likes to spew his fact-free bigoted gall nonetheless? I've had it with the scum who try to pin everything on Muslims when, in fact, these past fifteen years fundamentalist Christians have been effectively destroying our secular society. Fuck you, you pathetic piece of shit. It's not "phobiia" to utter non-surprise at YET MORE murders carried out by idiots proclaiming their devotion to Islam. New York, London. Madrid, Tunisa, France, Syria - these clowns were NOT Christian fundamentalists. It's very very easy to hang onto your liberal "hand-wringing, blame the west rather than the murdering bastards" approach isn't it? I honestly hope nothing happens to anyone very close to you...because that's just about the only thing that might make you rethink your extremely naive viewpoint. Figures suggest that 0.5% of ALL those Syrian Refugees that journeyed to Europe are terrorists...think about that for a minute. Germany's approach to this problem has created a Europe-wide problem. It won't be too long before one of these "sleeper cells" who snook in under cover of asylum does something terrible in Germany. Frau Merkel should hang her head in shame. Casper, one final thing. Tell us what YOUR answer is. and don't suggest dialogue - these fuck-brains have already proven they do not want to talk with anyone. |
| Saint Jiub 08.12.2015 10:32 |
So far, YV is the only QZ ultra-liberal that has responded to TQ's diatribe. Shameful. |
| brENsKi 08.12.2015 11:08 |
i think it's unfair ^^ to refer to Barbara as ultra-liberal, she's always come across as liberal left, but not ultra-liberal. and while we're on the subject of "liberal" - it's funny how ThomasQuinn preaches liberalism but some of his "attacks" on here are anything but the "live and let live" that liberalism extolls |
| Saint Jiub 08.12.2015 13:14 |
brENsKi wrote: i think it's unfair ^^ to refer to Barbara as ultra-liberal, she's always come across as liberal left, but not ultra-liberal. and while we're on the subject of "liberal" - it's funny how ThomasQuinn preaches liberalism but some of his "attacks" on here are anything but the "live and let live" that liberalism extollsI was not aiming for a radical or extremist label, but using "liberal" seemed to wishy-wasy to me. |
| Oscar J 08.12.2015 18:43 |
brENsKi wrote:Figures suggest that 0.5% of ALL those Syrian Refugees that journeyed to Europe are terrorists...think about that for a minute. ... aaaand you just resigned yourself from any credibility on the matter with that comment. Source on that ridiculous statement please. |
| The Real Wizard 08.12.2015 20:00 |
There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. If even 0.05% of them were terrorists, the world would've been blown to smithereens by now. Most major crimes in the west are committed by white people. This numbers can be easily researched. This Islamophobia thing is nothing but a social engineering exercise by the media, and it's clearly working - even on smart people. |
| The Real Wizard 08.12.2015 20:04 |
If you read comment sections on news articles (at least, in major Canadian and American media outlets), nearly every comment appears to agree with Trump on his "send all the Muslims back" stance. But they're not written by you or I, but rather people hired by multinational corporate interests who spew ignorance so that they can continue to make money with impunity. The agenda is simple - they want people to hate whoever their boogeyman of the hour is (in this particular case it's Muslims) so that they'll have public support for their wars that keep the military industrial complex flowing - their biggest money maker. It's very elaborately done, and most people just don't / can't see it, so they take the bait and drink the kool aid. News forums being hijacked by trolls is one of the biggest problems in the world today, and almost nobody is talking about it. Tens of millions of people read them, and it's shaping public opinion more than most of us realize. |
| Chief Mouse 09.12.2015 01:41 |
brENsKi wrote:thomasquinn 32989 wrote:Casper, you've taken Pitrek's comments out of context. YOU knew exactly what he was referring to, and his comments are (largely) accurate. It's not "phobiia" to utter non-surprise at YET MORE murders carried out by idiots proclaiming their devotion to Islam. New York, London. Madrid, Tunisa, France, Syria - these clowns were NOT Christian fundamentalists. It's very very easy to hang onto your liberal "hand-wringing, blame the west rather than the murdering bastards" approach isn't it? I honestly hope nothing happens to anyone very close to you...because that's just about the only thing that might make you rethink your extremely naive viewpoint. Figures suggest that 0.5% of ALL those Syrian Refugees that journeyed to Europe are terrorists...think about that for a minute. Germany's approach to this problem has created a Europe-wide problem. It won't be too long before one of these "sleeper cells" who snook in under cover of asylum does something terrible in Germany. Frau Merkel should hang her head in shame. Casper, one final thing. Tell us what YOUR answer is. and don't suggest dialogue - these fuck-brains have already proven they do not want to talk with anyone.pittrek wrote: And the killers were muslims. What a shock.But you, Pittrek, choose to ignore the far-right and Christian violence. You only come crawling out of the woodwork to spew your Islamophobe gall. So what is it, Pittrek? Are you a racist? Or, as I suspect, are you merely a dumb, scared little man who doesn't have a clue about reality but likes to spew his fact-free bigoted gall nonetheless? I've had it with the scum who try to pin everything on Muslims when, in fact, these past fifteen years fundamentalist Christians have been effectively destroying our secular society. Fuck you, you pathetic piece of shit. |
| Chief Mouse 09.12.2015 01:42 |
^ fuck off (not you Brenski or TQ). I'm not writing all of that again! Oh well. |
| brENsKi 09.12.2015 10:46 |
Oscar J wrote:I NEVER suggested the figures were real - did i? i said "figures suggest". my comment was not about credibility - it was about what figures suggest.brENsKi wrote:... aaaand you just resigned yourself from any credibility on the matter with that comment. Source on that ridiculous statement please.Figures suggest that 0.5% of ALL those Syrian Refugees that journeyed to Europe are terrorists...think about that for a minute. here's your links: link link link and The Last article form the Independent suggests 1 in 50 - which equates to 2% not 0.5% now Oscar J - do the decent thing - retract your insulting comment. |
| Oscar J 09.12.2015 11:49 |
Ok, so your figures come from ISIS (interesting how you suddenly find them trustworthy!), and: "Mr Saab said he had no firm information on terrorist infiltration of refugees, but said his “gut feeling” told him it was happening." ISIS want to scare and polarise people, and obviously they've succeeded with you. My comment still stands though. |
| The Real Wizard 09.12.2015 12:26 |
Chief Mouse wrote: ^ fuck off (not you Brenski or TQ). I'm not writing all of that again! Oh well.link ^ there's your solution to this problem. This forum has a ton of design flaws, but at least there's a workaround for this particular issue. |
| YourValentine 09.12.2015 12:51 |
I don't understand the fight in this thread. We all want the same : to live in peace with no fear of being shot in the streets. @magical - nobody in their right minds will blame you for Donald Trump, you are not responsible for the dumbness of this person. It is scary to see how the American nation is spilt up in paranoia and hatred, I blame wreckless public figures and most of all Fox "news". Returning to the original subject it is obvious that the shoot out in San Bernadino has been called an "act of terror" easily because it fits into our expectation when the killers are from "outside" and do not come from the middle of the society as in former incidents when it was not called terror but "mass shooting" or even "tragedy". European members of this boards immediately relate to the terrorist attack because it has happened in Europe, as well: hate crimes based on religious fanatism do NOT come from the middle of the society, In Europe such religiously motivated groups are a minority and specificly immigrant minority. We need to be careful and not blame the huge majority of immigrated muslims for such acts but we must have the right to point out this huge problem without being called xenophocic, islamophobes, racists or Nazis. If we do not address the problem openly and honestly we will split up into radicalised right wings and left wings and endanger our democracy. In my country we are facing a huge crisis with over 1 million refugees this year, most of them from Syria, Afghanistan and other Middle East countries. It is obvious that fearful people mix up the problem of Islamistic terror with the refugee crisis. The main reason is not Islamophobia, it's fear from the dissolving structures of our government. We need to get hold of this problem or this will be the biggest crisis since WW2. The idea that terrorists move into the country with the refugees is a nightmare. I cannot imagine what would happen to our political culture in Europe if terrorists would come into Schengen with no control. |
| brENsKi 09.12.2015 13:01 |
Oscar J wrote: Ok, so your figures come from ISIS (interesting how you suddenly find them trustworthy!), and: "Mr Saab said he had no firm information on terrorist infiltration of refugees, but said his “gut feeling” told him it was happening." ISIS want to scare and polarise people, and obviously they've succeeded with you. My comment still stands though. You missed the point - again. where the f*** did i say i trust ISIS figures...try reading. FYI - what i said was Figures suggest that 0.5% of ALL those Syrian Refugees that journeyed to Europe are terrorists...think about that for a minute. the key part being the LAST SIX WORDS. as in think...about it...from every angle. and i find YOUR last sentence both patronizing and insulting - when YOU'RE the one who didn't read my original post properly. for the last time read and understand the last SIX WORDS btw - anytime you want to say YOU got it wrong and YOU misunderstood - feel free. but don't patronize people when you can't even be bothered to read properly |
| Saint Jiub 09.12.2015 14:32 |
97% of QZ'ers prefer mp3 over flac. ;p |
| Saint Jiub 09.12.2015 14:35 |
Figures suggest that 97% of QZ'er prefer mp3 over flac (see above). |
| *goodco* 09.12.2015 15:35 |
We should have banned all of the Irish from travel years ago because of the IRA. Ban all exmilitary personnel from travelling anywhere in the US. Just a few examples are the shootings at the Washington DC Naval Yards in 2103, Fort Dix in 2001, Fort Hood in 2009......and need we forget, the Oklahoma City bombing in '95. amazing.... that ronald the mc'Donald' spouts out such nonsense as he does, that I'm on the same side as Cheney and Paul Ryan and the rest of the GOP. Quite the 'uniter'...... Meanwhile, junior Jerry Falwell espouses all students at Liberty U to carry guns to 'end those Muslims'. Beyond the message being sick, he wants the kids to be armed. Meanwhile, in half of the student dorms, it is too dangerous to have a toaster, microwave, or a candle, but guns are fine. can't fix stupid (oh, and I only use mp3....) |
| Oscar J 09.12.2015 16:03 |
If you just drop a comment like "Figures suggest [insert controversy here]" you're bound to get called on it. The way you phrased it made it sound like said "figures" were trustworthy results of a serious analysis or investigation we were to consider (you know, the way the phrase "figures suggest" usually is used). Sensational numbers like that are just so commonly used these days in debates and on social media in Sweden, and more often than not, people believe them to be true without any questioning or reflection. I guess I have just grown tired of that way of arguing, and yes, I might have overreacted a bit. You don't have spiral out of control over it though. |
| brENsKi 09.12.2015 16:32 |
Oscar J wrote: If you just drop a comment like "Figures suggest [insert controversy here]" you're bound to get called on it. The way you phrased it made it sound like said "figures" were trustworthy results of a serious analysis or investigation we were to consider (you know, the way the phrase "figures suggest" usually is used). Sensational numbers like that are just so commonly used these days in debates and on social media in Sweden, and more often than not, people believe them to be true without any questioning or reflection. I guess I have just grown tired of that way of arguing, and yes, I might have overreacted a bit. You don't have spiral out of control over it though.i didn't spiral out of control - i just pointed out that it's a bit rich you citing my credibility when you're the one who firstly, didn't read my post properly and secondly, challenged me to name sources - your inference was i'd "made up the figures" - which i hadn't. and i've proven this....because YOU'RE too lazy to do a simple google search before challenging someone. therefore you're actually wrong on that score - but you couldn't just admit being wrong...you had to wriggle and wriggle and wriggle. only person whose credibility is reduced here is your own. sometimes, the good thing to do is to admit (straight off the bat) that you could be wrong |
| Oscar J 09.12.2015 17:20 |
I read your post very well. There was no way for me to know that you didn't actually believe the figures to be true. Had there been a serious study about what percentage of the refugees are terrorists, I would have heard about it, as would likely most people. My presumption wasn't necessarily that you had made up the figures, it could just as well have been that you had taken the numbers from an untrustworthy source. Which you had. And even those sources didn't say 0.5%, so maybe you did pull the number out of your arse after all. There's certainly no 0.5% figure to find anywhere on google. There is nothing for me to admit. |
| Saint Jiub 09.12.2015 17:49 |
Same ole BrENsKi ... |
| Donna13 10.12.2015 09:45 |
My understanding of terrorism (in the past) was that the terrorists had a political objective (punishing the US or Israel or other governments for their actions or policies), and we (in the US) were told after 9/11 by the experts that the World Trade Center attack was aimed at the financial world and the Pentagon attack was aimed at the US government. Also the plane that went down in Pennsylvania when the passengers intervened was headed for Washington, DC to either hit Congress or the White House. But with this new type of ISIS terrorism, all non-Muslims and even other Muslims are the target. Do they want to terrorize or just kill? I think they are a death cult and their objective is irrational. This is not a new phenomenon - religion taken to unhealthy levels and in the case of ISIS deadly levels. My point is that the situation is changing and what we need to prepare for is unpredictable. For example, home grown terrorism. We don't know if incidents will increase or be less frequent. These "soft targets" of office parties and restaurants and concert venues are impossible to predict or to protect with the current thinking of just continuing to go about our business as usual. It is also impossible to know the outcome of this ISIS situation (how many will be recruited, how many months or years will this go on), because everything about ISIS is senseless. Understanding that no leader has any answers at this time, it is interesting that so many are willing to quickly criticize Donald Trump for his ideas. I'd say they are no better or worse than any other ideas at this point, because nobody knows what would be best to do. My personal view is that the US and other countries should allow all the refugees in, for humanitarian and economic reasons. The US has a few "dead" cities where houses and office buildings are empty, and the population has moved to other areas. So it is not as if we are too crowded. |
| brENsKi 10.12.2015 10:24 |
Oscar J wrote:And even those sources didn't say 0.5%, so maybe you did pull the number out of your arse after all. There's certainly no 0.5% figure to find anywhere on google. There is nothing for me to admit.yes they did say 0.5% - if you can be bothered to do some very basic maths current total of Syrian's "displaced" and living in Europe = 807,337 article cites 4,000 ISIS 4,000 / 807,337 = 0.00495 - ie half of 1% but you'd rather sling crap about and accuse people of pulling figures out of their arse. you're obviously able to use google, but unable to rationalise the 4,00 cited against the total displaced to Europe. pitiful again, you can have your last word - go on - slag me off again. bear in mind, i've not called you or accused you of anything. but i have to prove where figures come from because you'd rather berate someone rather than actually do some sums. and as for Panchgani - least surprising "wade-in" ever...same old Pachgani eh? think i'll take another break from this site, until it's moderated by someone who'll tackle people hiding behind their keyboards hurling crap at people rather than actually discuss something |
| Oscar J 10.12.2015 11:10 |
Right. So what you did was taking ISIS claims (!), made your own calculations, and then presented the result as "figures". That is not a serious way do discuss immigration matters. Why didn't you simply say "ISIS claims they have smuggled 4000 soldiers into Europe"? I'm not slagging you off, I'm just criticising your argumentation and research methods. You on the other hand, have called me lazy, a keyboard warrior, and questioned my abilities in reading and mathematics. If you want to discuss a matter of high controversy, you should be prepared for some heat. Why leave the site? I don't recall having any similar discussion with you in any thread, I normally don't even engage in political discussions. I simply reacted (admittedly a bit vigorously) on what is in my opinion a misleading way of using numbers to win an argument. We can definitely call the discussion off, as I think it would be a shame if you left. Your posts on music matters are usually great. |
| brENsKi 10.12.2015 11:36 |
for the last time i didn't cite anything as an argument - i said "think about it" i haven't called you anything. you challenged my comment saying "source please" when a simple google search's first three hits were ALL national newspapers you then question the 0.5% - but another simple google search provides the total Syrian migrant figure which you can divide your ISIS 4000 by. personally, i;d say challenging people in that way rather than actually checking (let's face it) google does the work for you....is lazy as regards your last comment...it's a little late (i think) as I've asked Barbara to remove my profile from the site - i've had a couple of months away from here - and i enjoyed it much more than coming back here....things here never change - people calling each other, TQ insulting people...and a plethora of keyboard warriors (P*****ani, for example) who when proved wrong stalk that person to the point of distraction. then there's other clowns who cite me as being from one USA city based on my avatar being Irish...despite it clearly showing my (dead) dad and brother's names underneath. so yes, now i've asked Barbara to delete my profile, i'll leave it to her - if it goes it goes....and my 12 years+ here will be gone....i'm sure i can fill the "void" with something else. bottom line? this place is full of lunatics, so the departure of one lunatic isn't going to deplete the madness in any way. |