| fras444 31.10.2015 03:38 |
Just watching the live in Japan, Rio and wembly. John deacon played a lot using the pick... During the last two major concerts, The Works and Magic. .. was there any reason for John to rely more on the pick than his fingers..? being a primarily a finger bassist, I could imagine being a bassist, it is hard on the fingers. but up in till then he was primarily a finger bassist |
| Oscar J 31.10.2015 07:18 |
He allegedly started consuming a lot of alcohol on stage, which might have made him slightly hamfisted. :) Or he just stopped giving a damn. |
| Vocal harmony 31.10.2015 07:52 |
Interesting question. . . . Years ago I asked the same question and was told that because they had introduced keyboards to the live sound the dynamics of the lower end had shifted and the Bass required a more defined edge to the sound, hence the use of the pick. |
| cmsdrums 31.10.2015 11:05 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Interesting question. . . . Years ago I asked the same question and was told that because they had introduced keyboards to the live sound the dynamics of the lower end had shifted and the Bass required a more defined edge to the sound, hence the use of the pick.Interesting, and use of the pick would certainly do that. However, you'd think they'd account for it in the EQ settings on the mix rather than get John to change his tried and tested and preferred style of playing. |
| matt z 31.10.2015 20:10 |
Well. A pick or thudding the strings would be the alternative. And John wasn't a heavy hitting thumper. (Ala John Entwistle) nor was he clangy like Steve Harris is. The only other alternative would be to use fingernails and/or rake the strings. And that's just for emphasis. An eq setting could thin out the low end and add a littlemoreclarity but the original source can't be simulated unless you're using a midi pspatch bass. It's like an original source photo. It almost always can't be enhanced without compromising the original source. None of that CSI CBS TV SERIES Crap where they take an original security video feed at low resolution only to zoom in on a target that automatically receives enhanced clarity. The pick would be the only way to do it without compromising the warmth/string action of his bass |
| fras444 04.11.2015 20:53 |
That is interesting!!! Yeah I could imagine that the inclusion of keyboards and that new era of 80s "synth Queen" brought some challenges to John in that way.. He LIKE Brian, is very delicate with the use of his fingers while playing Bass, and you see that with Stone Cold Crazy "live at the Rainbow" just a little to fast pace and needs the pick. He's not quite like the galloping fingers of Steve Harris. A lot like Def Leppards stuff where Rick Savage plays exclusively with the pick, which is needed in a way to complement the use of syth "and that he cant play bass with his fingers". Then again John Deacon is in a different league. Always just assumed that he was "like all the other members" going through some tough stages on the personal side of things during that time and using the pick was just a easy "lazy" way of getting through those tough times faster or the excessive touring, that using a pick was in away less demanding on the fingers. There is a distinct difference to the use of fingers and picks. A good example is Cliff Burton and Jason Newstead of Metallica and along with it, a heated debates on that whole subject with the "purists" of bass players...... Then John Paul Jones (a ledgend on the bass) blows that all out of the water as he like John, uses both picks and fingers, pending on the song. |
| thomasquinn 32989 05.11.2015 00:00 |
cmsdrums wrote:A pick gives a stronger attack to the notes, something you can't simply change with EQ (you can get rid of the attack to some extent, you can give it more emphasis, but you can't create it if it isn't there, or is very weak). I can imagine that, if keyboards are spreading into the low-end, using a picked bass gives the bass notes more punch and clarity.Vocal harmony wrote: Interesting question. . . . Years ago I asked the same question and was told that because they had introduced keyboards to the live sound the dynamics of the lower end had shifted and the Bass required a more defined edge to the sound, hence the use of the pick.Interesting, and use of the pick would certainly do that. However, you'd think they'd account for it in the EQ settings on the mix rather than get John to change his tried and tested and preferred style of playing. Also, picking vs. fingerpicking the notes gives a different balance of overtones, changing the timbre of the instrument quite considerably. |
| Oscar J 05.11.2015 17:12 |
Then why on earth wouldn't they just roll off the lower end of the KB's with an EQ rather than getting John Deacon change his playing style completely? I am not buying this theory. |
| liam 05.11.2015 17:36 |
I think its mainly because he got lazy. Like others have mentioned about Roger's playing in the 80's becoming lazy, so did John's. In the early days he played all the fills and high notes from the albums and embellished even more. He truly backed Brian during solo's. Works and Magic tours his playing is very different and I think him playing with a pick is an example of this. |
| fras444 05.11.2015 21:03 |
Yeah I think the term I used as lazy is quite a strong word to use. Yeah, if your a casual watcher and saw his work during the 70's where he dose those amazing high notes, such as those notes in Lap of the Gods just after Roger's screams, and those high end bass runs during the last verses on the Rainbow march version of Ogre Battle before the main solo. You just get that feeling that he is going all the way and making a point. Then you watch the last tours that they did and yeah you would say to yourself. John is being a little lazy but... If you know only knew the half of what they were all going through at the time and especially in Johns case you know. It then gives that impression that he is just trying to get through the show as quickly as possible by doing the least amount possible but still keep that professional sound and giving the audience what they want, and at the end of the day... realistically.. who is watching him at that point of time. So what is the point in me playing steel strings with my fingers for hundreds of shows... But that keyboard comment gets me thinking on a totally different level.... I don't think Rick Savage.. If he could play like John with his fingers, after high and dry or even Paranoia, that he would have been able to get that same sound with his fingers over the pick with all the synths that they used during Hysteria |
| Vocal harmony 06.11.2015 06:39 |
Oscar J wrote: Then why on earth wouldn't they just roll off the lower end of the KB's with an EQ rather than getting John Deacon change his playing style completely? I am not buying this theory.For the reasons outlined by Thomas. There seems to be an assumption that someone told John how he should play, do you really think he couldn't have come to the decision himself. When Freddie wasn't playing piano Queen were in a kind of power trio mould ( bass, drums and guitar) live. The inclusion of keys from 82 onwards changed the overall sound and dynamics of how they performed. The same is true of BM's playing in The Brian May Band and Queen+ with Jamie Moses. He changed elements of what he did to compensate for the extra guitar. Keyboards cover a great spectrum than a guitar, and can certainly cloud some of the lower end. Was JD being lazy? No he was playing to suit how the live sound developed. |
| Oscar J 06.11.2015 08:29 |
Not sure you understood my post correctly. By rolling off the lower frequencies of the *keyboards*, they could have freed up a lot of space for Deacon to keep playing the way he used to and with the rich and deep tone that only comes with finger-style playing. Why not shape the keyboards around Queen, rather than shaping Queen around the keyboards? |