| musicland munich 21.10.2015 19:45 |
Barbara Valentin on "0137-Show " 29 November 1991 Presenter: Roger Willemsen The bit with Barbara Valentin starts around 06.30 minutes in the Linked YT-Video LINK : link @ 06.30 minutes "Special or unusual charakters are attractive to each other. Even they look and act very different to the public. This is very much the case, when we talk about the german actress Barbara Valentin, and the english Pop idol Freddie Mercury. "Friends until the end" @ 06.50 - 07.08 Freddie Mercury - The death of a champion" - His intimate and scandalous blonde girl Buddy , speaks about her time with Freddie. Our meetings usually ended in a excess. R.W. : Good evening Mrs. Valentin....Freddie said that Love is Russian Roulette - I just haven't any control " Do you think that he wasn't able to control in that matter ( love / sex wise) B.V. : erm...I don't think so. That was just one of his slogans that he used....His Lips were quicker than his mind now and then. It wasn't that bad at all. The Tabloit's are exaggerating very much R.W.: Oh...we can put things right here, right now... B.V. : What's the point with this question ? R.W. : I want to know... if Freddie Mercury react( behaviour-wise) to the fact that he had AIDS / HIV B.V. : He reacts as soon as he was in knowledge... R.W. : Not before that ? B.V. : Well...a lot of people didn't knew about that disease...At the beginning, there wasn't even a name for it This thing wasn't well known in public...not at that point. As soon he was tested, he starts to change his lifestyle... R.W. : And you..what about you ? Do you play Russian Roulette...When did you start to take over control ( sex-wise) B.V. : At the same time....years ago... R.W. : Let's see what our Viewers opinion is... @ 09.05 ( telephone poll / Do you changes your Sex / lifestyle because of AIDS ?) @ 09.56 R.W. : Everytime a good friend pass away...the bereaved think about a last wish, or a last thing they would love to do with the person who's gone.. while/ or if... he was still alive... B.V. : I wish I could have see him one more time...and the crazy thing is, that I called him ( Garden Lodge) the minute ( the hour more likely) he passed away. I just had that feeling that something bad was going on...One of his Bodyguards cuts it very short with me on the phone...wich was unusual...there was a nervous aura all around " We call you back ".....and then I thought something is badly wrong there.... And then...later that night at 02.00 AM ( Germany) They called me and told me about his death... It 's crazy because I haven't called him for two weeks. I was just sending letters to him...he did not pick up the phone anymore. ...Something was making me mad ( at that evening ) So I felt the need to call him... R.W.: Does the communication workout well ( via letters) B.V. : Yes... R.W. : Do you speak proper english ? B.V. : Yes... R.W. : What was the content in those letters ? B.V. : In the last time I was sending him some drawings wich I did myself. He is/ was a huge "Cat-Head"..He loved his cats...nothing was more important to him, especially in the last period. He was all about his garden and flowers etc... All the excess...men and all that wasn't important to him anymore... He really steped back, he was reading a lot about Art and cares for his antiques...yeah AND cats... R.W.: You've painted cats for him ? B.V.: Yes I did, cut them out and stuff like that. I do own a cat myself...the communication ( via those letters) was a bit of a one way track with nothing comes back to you( during the last weeks).. I know that he wasn't able to write me back no more. I was the only one who knew about his condition for about six years...I was in knowledge right from the start... Well, but I know that he recieved my letters... R.W. : Ah...Animals...good point...there is a rumour about you that youhave got an tatoo...a butterfly...for Freddie ? True ? B.V. : Erm...not really...I have such a tatoo..but I didn't do that one for Freddie. I had it before I met him in person. R.W. : So my question will guide us nowhere...Can we see this ink job in one of your movies ? B.V. : I don't do this kind of films :) R.W. : So the only thing we have is our imagination...when/ how long did he know that he has AIDS / HIV ? B.V. : For six years..( short thinking gap)...yes.... R.W. : Do you spoke with someone about that ? B.V. : No R.W. : Do you know how he dealed with his situation ? B.V. : Yes R.W. : Are you willing to describe it more completely ? Was he willing to talk about it ? B.V. : No one asked him about that subject....In the beginning there was no need to do that. He knew that I was in knowledge of his situation. That's it...there wasn't much discussion about that matter. R.W. : Was he willing to accept pity ? B.V. : No, he was very strong...he doesn't complain about what was going on. He hides...he wasn't willing to show his problems that way. The last one and a half year, he had massive problems ( pain-wise) But he didn't complain...he was very much like a wounded animal...looking for shelter. @ 13.55 General talk about AIDS / loneliness, not Freddie related at first, but then it comes back to the subject.. B.V. : Well you get lonely when you have it ( AIDS) That's the bad thing for the people who are infected. I have a lot of people with that destiny in my circle of acquaintances. It has turned into usual business...Since Freddie passed...since Sunday...today is Friday...three other died...the last one died last night. A 26 year old boy. It''s strange to say but it turned into usual business ...just like a flu or a harless surgery...it's "normal R.W. : Ok, let's put the focus to morealive Freddie Mercury. You get quoted with something like " That man takes away all my strenght " B.V. : We lived together for one year...very intense. I had rehearsals a for theatre shows at the time, well and at some point I felt just "empty" he took all my energy, but I wanted it that way I was fascinated by him and he obviously had the same feeling for me. We get along together very well...a good time...yeah and a very exhausting period in one package. It was a crazy year...it was great..but in the end I was taken to the hospital for two weeks.I was unable to work... R.W. : Watching Freddie on stage it's hard to belive( Barbara cuts him off) B.V. : He was a bundle full of energy. he was full of life. He explodes... R.W. : And that was ok ? Even in the Munich scene ? B.V. : For sure... R.W. : He get along with the Bavarian way of life ? B.V. : Yes...it alway depends on the people you get in touch with...doesn't matter if Munich or Hamburg... R.W. : You had the chance to meet charakters like Freddie Mercury and Fassbinder ( director). Do they have something in common ? B.V. : Ha...yes of course. both are compareable somehow. Now and then I think they should have met...but on the other hand...both were such volcanos..and then I think No that relationship would be more like a fight...both of them were too intense and dynamic loaded with such an energy...It would't work out One of them would have been forced to step back a little for the sake of that (hypothetical)liasion. But Fassbinder would admire Freddie for his talent...he was such a talented person He was gifted in so many ways...he played the piano, he composed, he sings...his voice was getting better and better when he dropped smoking and drinking ( some Fans might disagree with that) His voice was outstanding ( a few words about herself)...but I'am happy to share a bit of my life with him..I ' |
| musicland munich 21.10.2015 19:47 |
I 'am happy and sad, all at the same time At 17.44 telephone poll resuts. Yes 48% No 52% a little chat about the result, not Freddie related. R.W. : Many Thanks Barbara Valentin |
| musicland munich 21.10.2015 19:52 |
The original I have written on my PC is scaled properly...but that doesn't work out with the copy and paste process on this forum. I get myself a huge cup of coffee now. |
| *goodco* 21.10.2015 20:32 |
Hope the coffee was good. Thank you for this. |
| IanR 21.10.2015 23:02 |
Wonderful! It contradicts the 'official' line that Freddie knew for sure about his diagnosis in 1987. |
| Biggus Dickus 22.10.2015 05:20 |
I think that he might have officially known in 1987 but had a feeling what he was going to be dealing with a lot earlier than that. |
| dive2063 22.10.2015 07:14 |
Maybe there were some changes in Freddie's health or general sense, even not diagnosed officially, that is why he may start to wonder about that before 1987. Barbara said six years before, so the question is: was it said approximately (+- year or so), or some changes in Fred's health had started to begin in 1985 (maybe at the end of the year)? |
| cmsdrums 22.10.2015 07:24 |
Sorry, but I can't not think of Alan Partridge when I see the translation "sex-wise"...!!! |
| user1 22.10.2015 07:25 |
Didn't Mary Austin also confirm 1985 or just "he knew on the last tour"? |
| Costa86 22.10.2015 07:57 |
He didn't get to know officially in 1987 - that's factually incorrect. He knew officially in 1985. We've had a few sources confirm this. As soon as the first HIV test became available in 1985, he took the test, numerous times (the false positive/negative rate at the time was high, so people would re-take it many times). The 1987 biopsy was almost certainly to verify if a lesion he had was Kaposi's sarcoma. It obviously resulted that it was, which is why in 1987 he was diagnosed as having full-blown AIDS (probably amongst other reasons, for instance his low CD4+ T cell count). You can also see the 1987 biopsy as having completely without any shadow of a doubt confirmed that he was infected. But, realistically speaking, the 1985 tests already showed to a very very high degree of certainty that he had HIV. Why he never told Jim this in 1985, I don't know. Barbara Valentin knew, as did Mary. PS: Some of the confusion about when he "knew" stems from the fact that the first tests were frequently not accurate, as I mentioned above. So I suppose people sometimes remained doubtful about their status, even if they took the test multiple times and tested positive. But once an opportunistic infection like KS would appear, then that would give them confirmation beyond any room for doubt that not only did they have HIV, but it had progressed to AIDS. That's why the 1987 date keeps cropping up, although Freddie knew by 1985. |
| YourValentine 22.10.2015 07:59 |
Yes, Mary Austin confirmed various times that Freddie knew about his HIV status before the Magic tour. Obviously, he had the first AIDS related symptoms in April 1987 (Jim Hutton book). Fans and friends usually overlook this fact generously because if we compare facts and dates we must admit that Freddie did not bother to tell Jim Hutton about his HIV status and did not use any protection, either before he developed the first symptoms. At the time it meant he was exposing his lover to a deadly illness without warning him. |
| Costa86 22.10.2015 08:19 |
This not telling Jim business is very worrying, from a moralistic point of view. It's been touched upon many times, and many times Freddie has been defended using reasoning such as "he wasn't sure he had HIV", or "Jim knew there was a risk", or "who are we to judge - those were different times", etc. etc. The fact is it is morally reprehensible (criminal actually) to hide your HIV status from someone you are having sex with. |
| Biggus Dickus 22.10.2015 10:59 |
It's interesting that Freddie had a dark mark in his right arm as early as Rock In Rio 1985. He still had the mark in Live Aid (next to the big mark). Sure, I'm no doctor so I've no idea if it was KS or not. I read that KS is an AIDS-defining symptom, so could he have been in AIDS-stage as early as 1985? |
| dive2063 22.10.2015 11:28 |
What mark are you talking about? Can't remember
Biggus Dickus wrote: It's interesting that Freddie had a dark mark in his right arm as early as Rock In Rio 1985. He still had the mark in Live Aid (next to the big mark). Sure, I'm no doctor so I've no idea if it was KS or not. I read that KS is an AIDS-defining symptom, so could he have been in AIDS-stage as early as 1985? |
| Biggus Dickus 22.10.2015 11:38 |
dive2063 wrote: What mark are you talking about? Can't rememberA mark or two in his right arm near the pit.Biggus Dickus wrote: It's interesting that Freddie had a dark mark in his right arm as early as Rock In Rio 1985. He still had the mark in Live Aid (next to the big mark). Sure, I'm no doctor so I've no idea if it was KS or not. I read that KS is an AIDS-defining symptom, so could he have been in AIDS-stage as early as 1985? |
| AriRosario 22.10.2015 12:14 |
|
| AriRosario 22.10.2015 12:14 |
|
| AriRosario 22.10.2015 12:14 |
|
| people on streets 22.10.2015 13:06 |
YourValentine wrote: At the time it meant he was exposing his lover to a deadly illness without warning him.Who says Jim didn't already have HIV? We will never know. Even Jim didn't know wether he infected Freddie or vice versa: link |
| YourValentine 22.10.2015 13:25 |
It would not change the fact that Freddie EXPOSED his lover (and some other lovers) without warning, does it? |
| Marknow 22.10.2015 14:31 |
What was the story with Montsy when he stopped her drinking from his glass? This was post diagnosis around Easter'87 was it? Many people who may have been exposed in the early 80's hid from it and got on with life until it became obvious they had Aids and finally got diagnosed. It was a strange phenomenon but it did happen, quite unbelievable by today's standard. |
| Costa86 22.10.2015 18:38 |
Marknow wrote: What was the story with Montsy when he stopped her drinking from his glass? This was post diagnosis around Easter'87 was it? Many people who may have been exposed in the early 80's hid from it and got on with life until it became obvious they had Aids and finally got diagnosed. It was a strange phenomenon but it did happen, quite unbelievable by today's standard.Yes they hid from it in public, and that was very understandable. It was a huge, huge stigma. Even "innocent" victims like Ryan White, and the Ray brothers, faced extreme stigmatisation, although they were hemophiliacs and essentially entirely blameless for getting the disease (blood products weren't screened for HIV until 1985, and unfortunately a huge percentage of hemophiliacs became infected). But there is a very important difference between hiding your HIV status from the public/friends and so on, and hiding it from your lover. The latter is criminal, because it means you are knowingly exposing that person to what was at the time a 100% fatal virus. Oh, and all that crap about Jim not knowing who infected whom stems from Jim's ignorance - with all due respect to him (I don't mean to insult the dead). Freddie slept with an innumerable number of men, whilst Jim would have slept with a relatively small number. And Jim never developed AIDS, which means he still didn't have AIDS in 1996 when HAART became available, which in turn means he was infected much later than Freddie. In other words, Freddie infected him when they met. But let us just for the sake of argument depict a scenario where Jim already had HIV when he met Freddie. He obviously would not have known he had it (he got to know in 1990). On the other hand, Freddie knew he had it, and yet he left Jim none the wiser about this. Quite a furore erupted when it came to light that Liberace infected three men, knowingly, with HIV. But not much is ever said about how Saint Freddie knowingly put Jim at risk. The only explanation I can give to Freddie's behaviour which goes a small way towards exonerating him is this: by the time Freddie got to know he had HIV - i.e. 1985 - he had already been sleeping with Jim. Hence, he might have thought that whatever harm could be done, had already been done by then, so it would be useless to tell him at that point. This sort of rationalisation does in a way lessen Freddie's blame (from a moralistic if not from a criminal standpoint). But it still stands that he had the ethical duty to inform his lover immediately once his HIV status became known - not wait two bloody years till he did the KS biopsy. It really shows that Freddie didn't give much of a shit about Jim. He only became sentimental about him when he had lost all his looks, all his sex drive, etc, and he needed someone stable by his side. Freddie was a generous, funny, kind, highly emotional and fun guy to be around. But he had absolutely no morals whatsoever. He was frankly a depraved, ultra-hedonistic, perverse sex addict. I'm ok with that. I still love him, despite that. |
| musicland munich 22.10.2015 19:02 |
The relationship between Jim and Freddie started before 1985. As soon AZT was available (87') he told Jim about his result(s).So he ( Jim) could get medication, if it would have been necessary. Freddie was in belive that Jim was monogamously, so he didn't expect that Jim would contract others with the Virus. So no real crime there. The moralities might be a different subject... |
| The Real Wizard 22.10.2015 19:48 |
people on streets wrote:And that's just it.YourValentine wrote: At the time it meant he was exposing his lover to a deadly illness without warning him.Who says Jim didn't already have HIV? We will never know. Furthermore - Jim's book contains a whole lot of revisionist history, so why take his 1987 claim seriously too? This will forever be an unsolved mystery, and in my opinion, not even worth our time. Worst case scenario, as one poster here has already pointed out - Mercury would've been a grand schmuckaroo. But we'll never know. It's best just to leave some things alone. |
| Biggus Dickus 22.10.2015 23:11 |
The Real Wizard wrote:I think Peter Freestone has also mentioned 1987.people on streets wrote:And that's just it. Furthermore - Jim's book contains a whole lot of revisionist history, so why take his 1987 claim seriously too? This will forever be an unsolved mystery, and in my opinion, not even worth our time. Worst case scenario, as one poster here has already pointed out - Mercury would've been a grand schmuckaroo. But we'll never know. It's best just to leave some things alone.YourValentine wrote: At the time it meant he was exposing his lover to a deadly illness without warning him.Who says Jim didn't already have HIV? We will never know. |
| musicland munich 22.10.2015 23:52 |
Biggus Dickus wrote I think Peter Freestone has also mentioned 1987.Yes that is / or maybe was the official Queen Camp Party line for a long time. But to put things right. In that Barbara Valentin interview, they didn't seperate HIV and AIDS...so it's not safe to say that he had full blown AIDS for six years. And in this case i would like to quote Paul Prenter who said that Freddie was tested manay times, and was afraid that he could develop AIDS...wich guides me to the assumption that he was diagnosed "positive" ( on whatever standards at that point ) by his doctor. A little help. Freddie used regular human ratio when he found out he was a potential victim. By the beginning of the plague in the erly 80's. The doctors suspected low death rates among People with HIV... at the end of the 80's...they suspected a death rate up to 90 % or more. So he acts step by step, like the most people would do I guess. |
| Costa86 23.10.2015 03:47 |
musicland munich wrote: The relationship between Jim and Freddie started before 1985. As soon AZT was available (87') he told Jim about his result(s).So he ( Jim) could get medication, if it would have been necessary. Freddie was in belive that Jim was monogamously, so he didn't expect that Jim would contract others with the Virus. So no real crime there. The moralities might be a different subject...Yes I think that's a good explanation. I will stick to that personally. |
| miraclesteinway 23.10.2015 06:41 |
What we've been told is that Freddie was diagnosed with AIDS in 1987, not that he was diagnosed with HIV in 1987. We don't know when he was diagnosed with HIV but I personally know of someone who claims to have worked in the lab that tested his blood positive some time shortly before or shortly after Live Aid in 1985, and definitely before the Magic Tour. This woman certainly worked in a lab that tested blood for HIV in the 1980s, but I can't positively confirm if she tested Freddie's or not. She told me in 2002 that he tested under his birth name in 1985, but of course everyone knew who he was anyway. She told me the lab staff were sworn to secrecy which was no different for any other patient, but that in this particular case there were severe warnings given in case anyone decided to leak something to a paper or the media. I can't tell you if the woman who told me is lying, all I can tell you is I'm not lying in that I was told that story. Remember however, that we now know that Mary Austin knew of his condition in 1986 because of an interview she gave on radio with Midge Ure, and she said that when he came off stage after Knebworth they looked at each other and she could see the pain in his face because he knew that it would be the last time he performed live on tour. Also remember that there was the article in The Sun in 1986 when Freddie was snapped coming back from Japan in Heathrow Airport and in this particular case, we know that Freddie indeed did have HIV at that time, so it probably came from a reliable source, unfortunately, meaning either a friend or a medical professional ultimately betrayed his confidence, or the media were able to get hold of confidential information through illegal means. |
| Biggus Dickus 23.10.2015 06:55 |
miraclesteinway wrote: What we've been told is that Freddie was diagnosed with AIDS in 1987, not that he was diagnosed with HIV in 1987. We don't know when he was diagnosed with HIV but I personally know of someone who claims to have worked in the lab that tested his blood positive some time shortly before or shortly after Live Aid in 1985, and definitely before the Magic Tour. This woman certainly worked in a lab that tested blood for HIV in the 1980s, but I can't positively confirm if she tested Freddie's or not. She told me in 2002 that he tested under his birth name in 1985, but of course everyone knew who he was anyway. She told me the lab staff were sworn to secrecy which was no different for any other patient, but that in this particular case there were severe warnings given in case anyone decided to leak something to a paper or the media. I can't tell you if the woman who told me is lying, all I can tell you is I'm not lying in that I was told that story. Remember however, that we now know that Mary Austin knew of his condition in 1986 because of an interview she gave on radio with Midge Ure, and she said that when he came off stage after Knebworth they looked at each other and she could see the pain in his face because he knew that it would be the last time he performed live on tour. Also remember that there was the article in The Sun in 1986 when Freddie was snapped coming back from Japan in Heathrow Airport and in this particular case, we know that Freddie indeed did have HIV at that time, so it probably came from a reliable source, unfortunately, meaning either a friend or a medical professional ultimately betrayed his confidence, or the media were able to get hold of confidential information through illegal means.That might explain why Freddie was reluctant of doing Magic Tour at first. I think he mentioned it in some fan club letter or some such, when he said something like "I didn't want to to the tour at first but now I'm glad I did it." I guess he wasn't sure if he still could perform like he wanted to. I'd think the Magic Tour gigs were pretty tough for him physically. |
| Costa86 23.10.2015 07:21 |
^ Yes I think what your friends says checks out with all we know, and everything points to him getting tested right when the first tests became available - i.e. 1985. The fact she told you this in 2002, when we knew much less, bolsters her story. |
| YourValentine 23.10.2015 08:51 |
It was not my intention to judge Freddie's behaviour. Apparently, he did the HIV test in 1985 and then did not call his doctor to learn the results, and who could blame him. I have lost people to AIDS and I have seen the irrational behaviour people develop when they get the death sentence. It's not like cancer where you have a prognosis but there are always the ones who survive - with AIDS in the 1980s there was only one outcome. What really gets on my nerves is that Freddie cult in parts of the Queen fan base. He was no angel and it is obvious that he did not trust Jim Hutton enough to warn him about the risk he was taking. There is a huge difference about the general risk a gay man was taking anyway and the very specific risk you take when you have unprotected sex with an infected partner. Mary Austin said in one interview that Freddie refused to talk about the test results for over a year and this is typical for the situation - trying to forget the inevitable as long as you have no symptoms. There is a lot of total denial. He must have been hysterical from fear that the issue leaked to the public and social death would follow the actual illness. We must remember that people like Freddie (from conservative families) did not talk to their own parents about AIDS because they were afraid of rejection. Not having told anybody Freddie must have been full of anxiety throughout the Magic tour knowing that the whole tour depended on his health and not knowing when "it" would start. I feel the deepest sympathy for this terrible situation but I cannot close my eyes to the fact that he could simply have stopped to have sex with unsupecting men. I have never taken part in discussions about that issue and I think I return to that policy leaving the topic to the pink-heart-and-balloon-Freddie-is-my-hero group :-) (not referring to anybody in this thread!) |
| Martin Packer 23.10.2015 13:03 |
Can we get back to Barbara Valentin (RIP)? There must've been quite a lot special about her for Freddie to strike up such a strong friendship with her. |
| hobbit in Rhye 23.10.2015 14:38 |
Thank you for the translation, Munich. Sad facts aside, I'm glad to hear she describing Mercury as full of energy and full of life. Although we already know that. He's a human being with all of its imperfections and vulnerability, but dearing nonetheless. |
| MercurialFreddie 23.10.2015 17:37 |
Info taken from this site (link already posted few posts above): link ""and how, as they lowered him back onto his bed, there was a deafening crack. ‘It sounded like one of his bones breaking ... he screamed out in pain and went into a convulsion. When he died, I went into my bedroom, phoned my mother and cracked up."" Is this new/alternate info about Freddie's last moments ? I thought that he had a peaceful death, a relieve from pain, and that he smiled.... |
| musicland munich 23.10.2015 18:36 |
MercurialFreddie wrote: Info taken from this site (link already posted few posts above): link ""and how, as they lowered him back onto his bed, there was a deafening crack. ‘It sounded like one of his bones breaking ... he screamed out in pain and went into a convulsion. When he died, I went into my bedroom, phoned my mother and cracked up."" Is this new/alternate info about Freddie's last moments ? I thought that he had a peaceful death, a relieve from pain, and that he smiled....No it isn't a new version of his last moments. Sounds like "Mercury & Me" ...Jim Hutton's book. |
| musicland munich 23.10.2015 18:53 |
Martin Packer wrote: Can we get back to Barbara Valentin (RIP)? There must've been quite a lot special about her for Freddie to strike up such a strong friendship with her.Barbara was a controversial character. The tabloits also nitpicking on her behaviour all the time. And at some point she starts living by that. As an actress she played in a countless number of movies and some of them were really bad...I mean BAD !!! The work with Fassbinder saved her career in my opinion. The tabloits blamed her for drug problems many times. At least there was whispering about the things she did. And Mack blamed her as Freddie's Coke dealer in Munich. So the Mr.Bad Guy liner note isn't too far fetched "Thank you for big tits and misconduct" |
| Costa86 23.10.2015 19:38 |
Outside of Germany and Austria, Barbara is mostly known for being linked with Freddie. She was what you'd call a fun girl - not the type you'd take home to meet your mum. Big personality, big tits (they got bigger in the 70s), not a huge amount of talent, and very average looks. She made up for her average looks with a rather colourful character. She did some softcore shots which you can find online. |
| Costa86 23.10.2015 19:40 |
|
| Under Pressure 24.10.2015 21:14 |
Curious question, to which there is no answer: I wonder, if he did get a positive before Live Aid, if it would have impacted the performance or in any way. |
| Supersonic_Man89 25.10.2015 06:09 |
[quote]Furthermore - Jim's book contains a whole lot of revisionist history, so why take his 1987 claim seriously too?[/quote] What stuff in the book is incorrect? I just read it and nothing obvious popped out to me |
| MercurialFreddie 25.10.2015 09:45 |
Thanks very much musicland munich. So can someone clarify what is the most trustworthy and most truthful info regarding Freddie's passing ? |
| MercurialFreddie 25.10.2015 10:05 |
Can we believe Jim's description ? There are many contradict statements about Freddie's passing and I don't know who I should believe... |
| The Real Wizard 25.10.2015 15:53 |
Supersonic_Man89 wrote:The biggest one is him claiming he was in the room when Mercury died. Dave Clark was the only person in the room. That has been pretty well documented.Furthermore - Jim's book contains a whole lot of revisionist history, so why take his 1987 claim seriously too?What stuff in the book is incorrect? I just read it and nothing obvious popped out to me |
| MercurialFreddie 25.10.2015 16:43 |
Terrific ! Thank you very much Sir GH !!! You've lifted a weigh off my mind ! Does this mean we can reject the disturbing story about breaking bones and convulsions ? |
| musicland munich 25.10.2015 16:52 |
^ Yes, Jim's version might be a suggestion by the writer Tim Wapshott and the publishing company. |
| Mr.QueenFan 25.10.2015 17:16 |
Thank you musicland munich for the translation. |
| Jesme 25.10.2015 17:22 |
Thanks for the above ^^^^ I too was a bit confused by the two totally different stories after I read Jims book...I don't like to dwell on such things , but I guess it is human nature to wonder. I don't consider is creepy, or morbid or anything such as that as death is a part of life and so it goes.... I just for some reason take Dave Clarks version as being the more reliable version of the events of that evening ..... Rose colors glasses perhaps, but that's just me . Not saying that Huttons book was all fabrication, but as I read it I found myself wondering how much was embellishment and how much could be taken as gospel .Glad to see it appears I am in good company . |
| Bad Seed 26.10.2015 03:12 |
Dave Clark's story has always been consistent since Freddie's death. I remember Clark being interviewed by telephone the day after Freddie died in which he stated that he was present and it was very peaceful, Clark was clearly very emotional. |
| Costa86 26.10.2015 04:59 |
I wonder why Jim made things up. It just strikes me as so dishonest, regardless of who suggested it. It was Jim's name that went on the book, so he bore responsibility for what was in it. |
| MercurialFreddie 26.10.2015 05:24 |
Many thanks to all who helped and clarified the story regarding Freddie's death. |
| dive2063 26.10.2015 06:55 |
There is only one question regarding Fred's health due to this story: was he insured during the Magic tour due to the HIV positive blood testing results prior, and was he really anxious about his possibility to successfully complete touring or not? |
| Costa86 26.10.2015 07:44 |
dive2063 wrote: There is only one question regarding Fred's health due to this story: was he insured during the Magic tour due to the HIV positive blood testing results prior, and was he really anxious about his possibility to successfully complete touring or not?If I recall correctly from previous discussions on QZ about this, it had been speculated that in 1986 insurance companies did not look at HIV status. I'm not sure if this is correct. |
| user1 26.10.2015 11:40 |
musicland munich wrote:It still seems to be the "official" version:Biggus Dickus wrote I think Peter Freestone has also mentioned 1987.Yes that is / or maybe was the official Queen Camp Party line for a long time "What wasn’t known outside the inner sanctum was that in 1987, Mercury had been diagnosed as HIV Positive, the AIDS related illness whose debilitating side effects inhibit energy and concentration." link Interesting that that they refer to HIV positive, not to full blown AIDS. After all we know this version doesn't seem to be very plausible. |
| luthorn 26.10.2015 12:09 |
Costa86 wrote:Yes, there was a discussion on that subject already. In addition, the Magic Tour was very short, Europe only, no South America or Japan. Given how huge it was and how popular Queen was at the time, one can only wonder why only so few dates. Those tours are not planned over night. The planning probably started right after Live Aid, so yet another piece to the puzzle as to when did Freddie know.dive2063 wrote: There is only one question regarding Fred's health due to this story: was he insured during the Magic tour due to the HIV positive blood testing results prior, and was he really anxious about his possibility to successfully complete touring or not?If I recall correctly from previous discussions on QZ about this, it had been speculated that in 1986 insurance companies did not look at HIV status. I'm not sure if this is correct. |
| jenss85 26.10.2015 15:59 |
How do we know Dave Clarks version is the truth. Pheobe and Jim tell it differently, Dave and Mary say otherwise. We will never know for sure. |
| jenss85 26.10.2015 16:00 |
Barbara well also told not to attend the funeral and had trouble retaining the apartment they had in Munich which they jointly owned. |
| Supersonic_Man89 26.10.2015 18:43 |
Yes, i can't see why Dave Clark's version seems more plausible to others than Jim's. Isn't it each other's word against the other? If anything, i can imagine DC preferring not to reveal the bone breaking/convulsions/wetting himself stuff as he felt it more dignified to edit those parts out...i often felt as much as it was an interesting read...whether Freddie would have been apalled at what Jim would reveal only a few years after Freddie had died. |
| musicland munich 26.10.2015 19:39 |
Well, of course -ME- I wasn't there. But some things are obvious and not worth mentioning. With other words... No offense, but what do you guys think will happen with YOUR"muscle tone" when YOU die ? And wich consequences that will have for YOUR bladder ? I can promise you that's not a Freddie Mercury exclusive problem ;) That will happen to a lot of us in the end. |