QueenZone discussion #1436098

Chief Mouse wrote: "Did Queen ever record one great song besides BR? I find it absurd that a rock band has an opera singer."

brENsKi wrote: it's a tough one. led zep's biggest selling original studio album has four million more worldwide sales than queen's greatest hits. 29m vs 25m they say "money talks"...so perhaps the biggest indicator of worldwide opinion would be sales? here's a list of certified and claimed total album sales (in millions) artist..........certified...claimed Beatles...... 264.9......600 Elvis........... 208.5.....600 MJackson...175.6.....400 Madonna....166.7.....300 Elton John...161.8....300 Led Zep.......138.8....300 Pink Floyd...116.4.....250 Mariah.........129.1.....200 Celine Dion..122........200 Whitney.......111.3.....200 AC/DC.........111.6....200 Queen.........103.9....200 Stones.........94.8.....200 ABBA...........57.8.... 200 there is some "distortion" in the above - as some of the list were major "singles" artists and benefit hugely in total sales og greatest hits compilations abba, queen, elton, madonna, michael jackson and the stones - for instance more than 25% of queen's total album sales is attributable to ONE greatest hits album alone.

bucsateflon wrote: It's cool to say "Led Zeppelin", most people don't know shit about them, just a cool name for a rock band that has androgen, straight dude's. So no surprise...

brENsKi wrote: wrong. wrong.wrong. i can think of a couple of Led Zep songs that's I'd bet are more well known on a worldwide scale than any queen song Whole Lotta Love, and Stairway To Heaven

brENsKi wrote: wrong. wrong.wrong. i can think of a couple of Led Zep songs that's I'd bet are more well known on a worldwide scale than any queen song Whole Lotta Love, and Stairway To Heaven

bucsateflon wrote:"Stairway To Heaven" is a fucking ballad, and that's all, people should not compare it with Bo Rap, more like "Nothing else matters" it's a fair comparison or other song of that type.

bucsateflon wrote:If somebody want's to impress with their music skills they say: "Led Zeppelin" and everybody will shake their head in agreement but in reality they don't listen, know them or give two shits about them. Led Zep hype, that's all.

Costa86 wrote: Americans, for the most part, have no taste. No offence to any Americans here, you guys probably DO have taste. Look at the clothes most of them wear. Oversized bull-crap. They can't even make a car worth a fuck. The US is one big steaming cesspool of obese cunts. I love Led Zep by the way, so not saying they're not a great band. Just that the average all dancing, all singing, mid-Western American baboon, watching his stereotypical baseball and stuffing his face with his hot dog, doesn't know shit.

bucsateflon wrote: If somebody want's to impress with their music skills they say: "Led Zeppelin" and everybody will shake their head in agreement but in reality they don't listen, know them or give two shits about them. Led Zep hype, that's all.

brENsKi wrote: so basically, you're another f***ing queen stepford, who can't accept the greatness of any other band. i for one have never really loved Zep, but i can at least accept the greatness of their songs

matt z wrote: There IS still the stereotypical queer attribution with Queen. It's not manly to like them. It's nostalgic of people who grew up with the band, but still a band like Zep gets pluses for being straight forward rock.

Day dop wrote: I'm on the Steve Hoffman Music Forum. The forum mostly has people from the U.S. on there. But some of the poll results, and comments surprised me. Queen vs Led Zepp. Queen 176 vote(s) 25.8% Led Zeppelin 453 vote(s) 66.5% link If the forum had a more global user base, as opposed to people mostly from the U.S, I am fairly sure the results wouldn't be looking like that. Same with this post, Jagger vs Mercury. link From my observations, usually Jagger lags behind on this stuff. Of course, essentially these polls are mostly pointless and I don't much like those band vs band / singer vs singer threads, but as I say, the comments/poll results still surprised me nonetheless. Does it seem to be the case to others here, that Queen is often still dismissed in the U.S in comparison to the U.K and elsewhere around the world? I'd been entertaining the idea for a while that the U.S would've had time by now to reevaluate when it comes to Queen, but it seems if that hasn't happened all these years on, it never will. (Also, I like to add that I like both the Stones and Zeppelin).

bucsateflon wrote:

brENsKi wrote: so basically, you're another f***ing queen stepford, who can't accept the greatness of any other band. i for one have never really loved Zep, but i can at least accept the greatness of their songs

A "Queen stepford" whatever the hell, is a dumb ass who goes on Led Zep forums, communities or Rolling Stones fan pages like "Steve Hoffman..." and starts bragging about Queen, just like you do here about Led Zep. I never said they are bad, just not as good as Queen.

brENsKi wrote:

bucsateflon wrote:If somebody want's to impress with their music skills they say: "Led Zeppelin" and everybody will shake their head in agreement but in reality they don't listen, know them or give two shits about them. Led Zep hype, that's all.

so basically, you're another f***ing queen stepford, who can't accept the greatness of any other band. i for one have never really loved Zep, but i can at least accept the greatness of their songs

bucsateflon wrote: "Stairway To Heaven" is a fucking ballad, and that's all, people should not compare it with Bo Rap

Day dop wrote: I'm going to unfollow that thread. I don't get much pleasure out of arguing with complete strangers on the net about music tastes, which is essentially what it all boils down to.

queenUSA wrote: I can tell you this though, they're not playing Led Zep at sports arenas over here.

matt z wrote: QUEEN is another entity. They often defy categorization. (I'd just call them a Rock band even though they went all over the place) But with Queen came ballads, oddities, camp, disco rock, 80's pop, and they were such a mixed bag they didn't fit the easy standard of rock and roll that AC/DC, ZEP or THE WHO did.

The Real Wizard wrote: Zeppelin was and is bigger than Queen in the US. Always was, always will be. Queen filled arenas. Zeppelin filled stadiums. This really is undebatable.

The Real Wizard wrote: Gallows Pole, Tangerine, Dyer Maker and Kashmir are completely different genres of music. Their albums were as eclectic as Queen's were. And Queen were doing the androgyny thing that was popular in the mid 70s. Zeppelin had their complete own image and mysticism. It's a curious blip in everything we think we know about American popular culture. If all the stereotypes would ring true, then Zeppelin should've gone down like a lead balloon like Keith Moon said they would.

Ghostwithasmile is BACK! wrote: So I gues it depends on thr territory you are when it comes to North American continent : LZ is the winner big time. (Western) Europe Queen : smashes LZ to a pubband

brENsKi wrote: i would say, that the order of greatness is probably beatles lez zep michael jackson and then (in no particular order) stones, queen, who, floyd, elton, bowie

bucsateflon wrote: brENsKi- 7800 posts The Real Wizard- 17573 posts this says to me that no amount or arguments will be enough for the likes of you, I was tempted to reply but it is a waste of my time in this case...

Ghostwithasmile is BACK! wrote: It depends a lot of where you live. Here in Western European coutries only a few know about LZ. Most of the people <25 wouldn't know who they are. If you would ask for great LZ songs at people know or like some wouldn't say Stairway... But most of them Don't know any hit from LZ or cannot come up with a LZ song. LZ has no radio play in my country. Except for the annual polls around Xmas with only one song perhaps WLOL as well. On the other hand Queen have annualy about 25-35 entries in such list. Everyone older as 16 years can tell you who Queen is. And name a couple of their songs. No matter which radio station I listen to every 2-3 hrs there is a Queen song being played. When BM farts in the UK it will the newspapers. So I gues it depends on thr territory you are when it comes to North American continent : LZ is the winner big time. (Western) Europe Queen : smashes LZ to a pubband

bucsateflon wrote: brENsKi- 7800 posts The Real Wizard- 17573 posts this says to me that no amount or arguments will be enough for the likes of you, I was tempted to reply but it is a waste of my time in this case...

brENsKi wrote:

Ghostwithasmile is BACK! wrote: It depends a lot of where you live. Here in Western European coutries only a few know about LZ. Most of the people <25 wouldn't know who they are. If you would ask for great LZ songs at people know or like some wouldn't say Stairway... But most of them Don't know any hit from LZ or cannot come up with a LZ song. LZ has no radio play in my country. Except for the annual polls around Xmas with only one song perhaps WLOL as well. On the other hand Queen have annualy about 25-35 entries in such list. Everyone older as 16 years can tell you who Queen is. And name a couple of their songs. No matter which radio station I listen to every 2-3 hrs there is a Queen song being played. When BM farts in the UK it will the newspapers. So I gues it depends on thr territory you are when it comes to North American continent : LZ is the winner big time. (Western) Europe Queen : smashes LZ to a pubband

none of that counts for f-all. sorry but it doesn't. 4 million MORE people worldwide own Lez Zep IV (their biggest biggest selling) than Queen's Greatest Hits. add to that that 25% of queen's GH were sold in the UK...that means that an original studio album by Zep outsells QGH by 1/6th - (29 m vs 25m) but as I said to Bob, someone would eventually drag this thread away from the uSA - which is what it was really about...but let's humour you a little let's take BOTH bands' biggest selling oriignal work and for good measure use Sgt Pepper as a comparator: sales (in 000s) ......................USA........UK......Fr.....Germ...Cana...Hol.....Ausl Sgt Pepper....11,000....5,000..88.....500.......800.....65.....280 Led Zep IV....23,000....1,800...970..750......2,000...100...560 ANATO...........3,000.......300...650...500........100.....75....n/a looking at the above it kinda makes your "western europe" argument look very very weak zep IV blitzes even the great Sgt Pepper (on a worldwide scale)...which in turn blitzes ANATO (in europe)

brENsKi wrote: figures i just found would kinda dispute your claim fella total album sales in millions ..................worldwide sales....usa sales....rest of world queen........103.9....................40.9............63.0 led zep.......138.8...................63.8............75.0 even allowing for led zep (maybe) selling more than queen in australasia and the far east - there's a 12.0million margin to play with this would equate to led zep outselling queen throughout europe, surely. even more impressive when you account that GH has sold almost 9million in europe

The Real Wizard wrote:

queenUSA wrote: I can tell you this though, they're not playing Led Zep at sports arenas over here.

They didn't play Queen songs at high school dances, but Stairway closed nearly every high school dance for a decade - a painful 8 minutes if you didn't like who you were dancing with ! ^ neither of these things are an indication of quality of music nor how many people consume/consumed them. Zeppelin was and is bigger than Queen in the US. Always was, always will be. Queen filled arenas. Zeppelin filled stadiums. This really is undebatable. It's Queen's music that's played in stadiums and arenas to this day at sporting events - not Led Zep and that is not debatable. That was my point.

brENsKi wrote: @Day dop: i think you picked the wrong approach fella. LiveAid was 20 minutes.....and really not that significant in the scheme of things. they may have stolen the show...but an awful lot of bands didn't turn up to prove anything, they gave their time primarily for the good cause. the facts speak for themselves: while Zep's line-up was unbroken, they never released a bad album - yeah sure a couple were below their usual standard, but they were still good. and - as Bob said - the intense touring of America early on cemented their reputation. queen on the other hand - regardless of what the apologists might say - DID make some dodgy albums - HS, works, magic, and even the miracle zep were much bigger in america because - quite simply - they worked their tits off to break the US. it's said that "if the US sneezes, the world catches a cold"...well that pretty much applies to music...the beatles worked this out and so did zep.

brENsKi wrote: not everyone turned to crud in the 80s...yeah most did, but not everyone

The King Of Rhye wrote:

brENsKi wrote: not everyone turned to crud in the 80s...yeah most did, but not everyone

Exhibit A: Rush :) Yeah, I probably would say their best stuff was before and after the 80s (well...before the mid 80s at least) but they still had good albums...

brENsKi wrote: question: why did the synths on Permanent waves, MP, Signals and GUP sound so good, while the synths on HS, Works and Magic sound so (ahem) shit?

brENsKi wrote: couple of things re:^^ 1] a no9 hit in the USA is a big big hit 2] in addition to not taken seriously, not getting queen or homophobia, can i offer another suggestion? America (generally) just didn't like Queen's music?

brENsKi wrote: question: why did the synths on Permanent waves, MP, Signals and GUP sound so good, while the synths on HS, Works and Magic sound so (ahem) shit?

The Real Wizard wrote: Plenty of gay artists have been extremely successful in the US - particularly Elton John. So methinks that has little to do with it. Queen just sounded English much of the time, and had a diverse sound that extended to plenty of places that most Americans were barely exposed to. Other than a few of their hits that were more of a rock and roll Esperanto, their sound was exclusively theirs and ultimately didn't connect with most Americans. But as I mentioned before, Zeppelin brought in all kinds of folk and eastern influences that were completely foreign to most American ears, yet they were successful at it. There just is no formula. Sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don't. I don't think we're going to find an easy answer. It's human nature to want those, but more times than not we just don't get them - and we should be fine with it. Cognitive closure is like a pretty shiny widget in the shop window. We want it, but it ultimately doesn't give us much.