QueenZone discussion #1429366
Could Hot Space be redone in a more traditional Queen style?
| raucousmonster 21.04.2015 06:37 |
Ok, Hot Space was a stylistic departure from the type of music Queen were known for and as a result it didn't sell as well as it might have been expected to. But is that the only reason or are the songs just not as good as on other albums? What if Queen hadn't gone for a radical new style and stuck to something more familiar to them and their audience - the album may have been better but would it have come up to the minimum standard we fans required? For example I think Dancer is one of the best tracks on the album and had it been done in a more guitar based style it would more than hold its own with much of the Queen cannon. I even think Body Language is salvageable as a rock track and a beefier production on Las Palabras De Amor would have made a world of difference. But I'm not sure the same can be said for Back Chat, Life Is Real, Cool Cat, Calling All Girls, Staying Power, Action This Day. That's the bulk of the album! I'm not saying I hate these songs but they don't feel anything close to Queen's usual standard. For the record I'd leave Under Pressure as it is of course and would only make minor changes to Put Out The Fire which, whilst a great song, suffers from a tinny sounding production in my view. |
| The King Of Rhye 21.04.2015 06:51 |
I'd actually keep Body Language the way it is, maybe add some guitar to it..........I kinda like that song........I think LPDA and Life Is Real pretty much are done in the 'traditional Queen style' But, yeah, Action This Day, though......that's the one song I would like to see redone! |
| pittrek 21.04.2015 07:51 |
Action this Day is actually pretty good. Live of course : link All of the Hot Space songs are pretty good live. |
| The King Of Rhye 21.04.2015 08:12 |
I always thought Action was a very good song....I just really don't like that synth-horn-thing solo in the middle!! It would have sounded so much better with a proper Brian solo :D......(or indeed any Red Special at all!) It would have awesome if they had done sort of a 're-take' of that and maybe a few other songs on HS, like the '97 "Rocks re-take" of I Can't Live With You |
| thomasquinn 32989 21.04.2015 08:49 |
Interesting topic! I agree with much that has been said above. Also, I think Life Is Real isn't a bad song at all - it even has a small fragment that could optimistically be called a quotation from Grieg. Certainly not when compared to Cool Cat or, may god have mercy on their souls for that one, Soul Brother. I don't think Back Chat is a terrible song (I don't think it's great either), but it's so fundamentally a disco song that I don't really think you could it into a more rock-oriented song without turning it into a completely different song that happens to share the lyrics of the original. |
| Vali 21.04.2015 08:52 |
The King Of Rhye wrote: don't like that synth-horn-thing solo in the middle!!once again, another prove of the misteries behind music and the way it hits the listener ! I've laways loved (I mean, from day one!) the synth-horn part on that song. That funky-disco vibe ... yeah; it was made for me ;-P the thing I love the most about Hot Space is the way they portrayed the songs in the studio and the transformation they "suffered" (for good/for better/just for change) on stage. |
| raucousmonster 21.04.2015 08:55 |
For me it's all about the singalong factor. Do I ever find myself singing a particular song to myself. I've found myself singing Dancer, Body Language, Pressure, (which was mortifying once my wife overheard me), and even a few bars of Staying Power. But I've never done Back Chat, Cool Cat, Action etc... They just never grabbed me the way most of Queen's songs have. I really like Soul Brother, I know it's a throwaway but it's a lot of fun and it too has passed the singalong test. Although I doubt I'd pass any singing test whilst doing it... |
| Sebastian 21.04.2015 09:55 |
The solo on 'Action This Day' is not a synth-horn, it's a real saxophone... two actually: tenor and alto. They were played by uncredited guest musician Dino Solera. |
| MercurialFreddie 21.04.2015 10:06 |
Days of Our Lives Docu (2011) showed that Hot Space was a time when there was a rupture in the band. Roger stated that Paul Prenter pressured everyone into making a music which you'd heard in a gay club but not everyone fall for that. I do not know in what circumstances P. Prenter was appointed as Freddie's PA but how come that he wasn't sacked as soon as it was evident that he is getting in the way and disturbing band during studio work on the album ? How come Mack didn't throw him out of the studio or Jim Beach intervened ? As an excuse of Hot Space's low sales Mack have always stated that the album needed another 5 months of work. Try listening to Matt's revision of Hot Space, he really brought sth out of some songs and they sound nth times better than official 82' mix. |
| Viper 21.04.2015 11:19 |
With those Freddie's vocals, HS would be a great algum if it was more rock oriented! Maybe some day we'll get a retake on those tracks, because live they were pretty good. |
| raucousmonster 21.04.2015 11:29 |
MercurialFreddie wrote: Days of Our Lives Docu (2011) showed that Hot Space was a time when there was a rupture in the band. Roger stated that Paul Prenter pressured everyone into making a music which you'd heard in a gay club but not everyone fall for that. I do not know in what circumstances P. Prenter was appointed as Freddie's PA but how come that he wasn't sacked as soon as it was evident that he is getting in the way and disturbing band during studio work on the album ? How come Mack didn't throw him out of the studio or Jim Beach intervened ? As an excuse of Hot Space's low sales Mack have always stated that the album needed another 5 months of work. Try listening to Matt's revision of Hot Space, he really brought sth out of some songs and they sound nth times better than official 82' mix.Sounds interesting - where is that, on this site somewhere?? |
| musicland munich 21.04.2015 11:42 |
^ You can find it on Youtube...I can confirm it the way MercurialFreddie wrote it ( more or less). Mack also had the thesis that half a year later the album would fit better because the success of Jane Fonda's " Let's get physical"...After that point it was all about Body and Tone for a while he said. |
| master marathon runner 21.04.2015 12:30 |
/ \ / Olivia Newton John. I prefer hot space to the miracle and made in heaven. Call it what you like, but it had soul.(in the profound sense). Unlike the post Freddie , "Frankenstein" efforts. |
| KumoNin 21.04.2015 13:34 |
raucousmonster wrote:The Matt thing? Yeah, it's awesome, find it here:MercurialFreddie wrote: Days of Our Lives Docu (2011) showed that Hot Space was a time when there was a rupture in the band. Roger stated that Paul Prenter pressured everyone into making a music which you'd heard in a gay club but not everyone fall for that. I do not know in what circumstances P. Prenter was appointed as Freddie's PA but how come that he wasn't sacked as soon as it was evident that he is getting in the way and disturbing band during studio work on the album ? How come Mack didn't throw him out of the studio or Jim Beach intervened ? As an excuse of Hot Space's low sales Mack have always stated that the album needed another 5 months of work. Try listening to Matt's revision of Hot Space, he really brought sth out of some songs and they sound nth times better than official 82' mix.Sounds interesting - where is that, on this site somewhere?? link drive.live.com/?cid=444956C082D185FC&id=444956C082D185FC%21105 (lose the space) |
| goose44 21.04.2015 14:03 |
Paul Prenter never told the band what to do. The rest of the band could not stand the prick. Prenter was influencing Freddie to go in that direction, as well as John in his own merits liking the dance music at the time. Freddie and Prenter were the reason why the band was having all sorts of issues. Freddie wanted more disco dance and Roger and Brian did not. There is a quick clip of Roger around a short period of time after Hot Space saying g how parts of the record sucked and he was not proud of their work. 1982 was the decline for Freddie in turns of creativity, which created laziness due to his partying which was at it's peek. Prenter pushed him as well which as I said split the band. After HS, Freddie should have told Prenter to take a hike. In fact, the rest of the band should have made him go. On the original topic, if you turned the material into a more rock record then it would work. Take Action this Day for example. At MK, it worked perfectly. Heavy rock and a spectacular middle section of blasting synths that made it sound like a giant in your face track. Same with Staying Power. I love Dancer, it has an edge already. POTF has production issues. I believe it is the prefix to the stupidity of their production in the mid 80's. Now for the hell of it I am going to listen to HS now as I have not listened to it in about a year. |
| mooghead 21.04.2015 14:27 |
Its horrendous lets be honest. Queen always wanted to be on trend (but werent always trendy) but gay pop has never been on trend. 'Could Hot Space be redone' is a silly question because it never will be. A change in track order could make it better though, to hear the only original instrument in the first 3 minutes be Freddie's voice is never gonna be good. Start with one of the 'proper' songs and the attitude to the rest of the album will be different. And get rid of Body Language. Replace it with Freddie saying the words 'look at my cock' on a 3 minute cycle and it will get the same message across and sound a million times 'better'. |
| musicland munich 21.04.2015 15:09 |
master marathon runner wrote: / \ / Olivia Newton John. .Haha...yes I mixed up the names there... |
| MercurialFreddie 21.04.2015 17:03 |
Thanks goose44 for correcting me on that one although I should've said that he pressured the band by infuencing Freddie to go in that direction as you've said it. I'm not native English speaker so the "message" wasn't so clear in my post. Back to the topic: here's my idea of re-doing some tracks off HS.: Dancer - first verse Bass, Freddie + piano licks here and there mainly to underline tempo and rhythm of the song, rest of the band and guitar entering at chorus. No synths. Back Chat - the way Matt re-did it, a tad aggressive and normal acoustic drum overkill (a la Dragon Attack) instead of those awful electric drums. Las Palabras the Amor (Matt version) but more piano instead of synths, especially in verses where the background is being "painted" by synths. |
| The King Of Rhye 21.04.2015 17:56 |
mooghead wrote: And get rid of Body Language. Replace it with Freddie saying the words 'look at my cock' on a 3 minute cycle and it will get the same message across and sound a million times 'better'.Yeah, we never had a rock song with thinly or not all veiled sexually-themed lyrics before.....lol |
| Jimmy Dean 21.04.2015 21:46 |
there is nothing wrong with this album other than cool cat. aside from that, it's a better listen than works, akom and in terms of replay value, the miracle. |
| BETA215 22.04.2015 00:47 |
The only song I don't like from Queen is See What A Fool I've Been (B-Side Version). |
| pittrek 22.04.2015 01:33 |
Jimmy Dean wrote: there is nothing wrong with this album other than cool cat. aside from that, it's a better listen than works, akom and in terms of replay value, the miracle.I can't agree. Staying Power - just horrible. The live versions are OK. Dancer - OK, this one is pretty good. Back Chat - boredom. Again, live versions are MUCH better. Body Language - I like this one too. Action This Day - live versions are pretty good, album version not. Put Out The Fire - just OK Life is Real - boredom Calling All Girls - boredom, live versions are OK Las Palabras De Amor - again - boredom Cool Cat - another horrible song Under Pressure - I know I'm a minority but I never liked this song Live versions are much better. Even the DEMO versions are much better. I personally like almost all songs except Man on the Prowl and Open Windows |
| matt z 22.04.2015 02:03 |
Jimmy Dean wrote: there is nothing wrong with this album other than cool cat. aside from that, it's a better listen than works, akom and in terms of replay value, the miracle.But COOL CAT, under pressure and ACTION THIS DAY are the only really great songs on the album! Insanity! Back chat and dancer suck but are saved by Brian's incredible "argument" with his multi faceted guitar. (Dancer is good but not great.... very forced) Shit like Staying Power (*even if ripped off from Zeppelin) still sucks rat shit out the trap. How could anybody. ...??? |
| Jimmy Dean 22.04.2015 04:17 |
i still find the album is a fresh listen each time i play it. while each song may not exactly be crowning achievements (other than Under Pressure) - the album as a whole is what i'm commenting on. the horns, the production, the arrangements, etc. it's not Queen but it's still fucking Queen! |
| master marathon runner 22.04.2015 05:29 |
/ Cock on cher. |
| mooghead 22.04.2015 05:31 |
The King Of Rhye wrote:Fair point but other than maybe the odd Prince song nothing says 'jump on my cock' more than BL. And to think Freddie never actually came out publicly..mooghead wrote: And get rid of Body Language. Replace it with Freddie saying the words 'look at my cock' on a 3 minute cycle and it will get the same message across and sound a million times 'better'.Yeah, we never had a rock song with thinly or not all veiled sexually-themed lyrics before.....lol |
| Martin Packer 22.04.2015 06:33 |
I've always liked "Calling All Girls". It's not got much of a mention in this thread. I might be alone then. :-) |
| Daniel Nester 22.04.2015 07:17 |
I heard Cool Cat played on SiriusXM's Deep Track and was pleasantly surprised how it sounded and fit in with the rest of the classic rock. |
| Rick 22.04.2015 08:03 |
The King Of Rhye wrote: I always thought Action was a very good song....I just really don't like that synth-horn-thing solo in the middle!! It would have sounded so much better with a proper Brian solo :D......(or indeed any Red Special at all!) It would have awesome if they had done sort of a 're-take' of that and maybe a few other songs on HS, like the '97 "Rocks re-take" of I Can't Live With Youlink I like this middle section more. |
| goose44 22.04.2015 09:13 |
Dancer is the one song besides Under Pressure that has that Queen punch like they had in the late 70's and 1980. Don't understand why some people can't stand it. I can say almost every other song except for LPDA is bland and missing substance. Electric Drums is the worst thing Queen ever did. Everyone used to get pissed about Synths. They worked for queen if they are not overly used throughout a song and combined it with Guitar like TSMGO for example. HS however as we know is just full of it. Brian is lacking here and Roger is reduced to nothing. Miami Beach should have bitch slapped Freddie and said why the F are you doing here, why the hell is this shit. Plus, Brian and Roger should have had bigger balls and said no. You know they could push little Deacy aside and double team Freddie, which Freddie would probably have enjoyed, lol. Anyway, at least they stayed together for over 20 years straight and lived through the times. Tell me any band who went through their time period, had the success they had and never broke up. |
| brENsKi 22.04.2015 11:18 |
raucousmonster wrote: Could Hot Space be redone in a more traditional Queen style?i f*cking-well hope not...as Ade Edmondson put it so eloquently: "Never, ever bloody anything ever!" |
| The King Of Rhye 22.04.2015 11:41 |
matt z wrote: Staying Power (*even if ripped off from Zeppelin)Huh?? You just lost me there.......what Zeppelin song is Staying Power ripped off from????? |
| Toon_86 22.04.2015 12:15 |
Few years ago, I emailed the good Doc and said, why don't the remake Hot Space as a rock album. He put it on his Soapbox. I even suggested the name Hot Space Rocks. His reply was along the lines of if there was enough time and space they could do it, but the live versions were out there to hear a rockier version of things like Staying Power. Still think a full rock version of Staying Power would be great. And still think the title Hot Space Rocks is a genius title and should get me royalties if they did it |
| raucousmonster 22.04.2015 12:18 |
brENsKi wrote:The real point of my original post (which I made a pig's ear of asking admittedly :) ) was to ask if the songs on Hot Space would have stood up well next to the rest of Queen's catalogue had they been presented in a more traditional Queen style. My own view is that by and large they wouldn't because the songwriting is noticeably weaker than most other Queen albums. I'd put it on a par with The Miracle which is my own least favourite Queen album. At least on Hot Space they were trying (and failing) to do something different. The Miracle is just...well, mostly average songs with mostly terrible production values.raucousmonster wrote: Could Hot Space be redone in a more traditional Queen style?i f*cking-well hope not...as Ade Edmondson put it so eloquently: "Never, ever bloody anything ever!" |
| Toon_86 22.04.2015 12:18 |
In fact, here is the link to the letter, the reply seems to have been taken down though:- link |
| maxpower 22.04.2015 15:30 |
At least Hot Space was the last Queen album to take risks, it isn't as bad as people make out. For me it's better than The Works & A Kind of Magic. At the time it bombed I guess but signs were there on Another One Bites The Dust which I always preferred live especially the rockier 1986 version |
| Ozz 22.04.2015 16:01 |
It seems we all have different views about HS Staying Power - I like ALL versions. Including 12' and live. Matt's version is SUPERB !! Dancer - Bland and boring. Back Chat - Live seems to work. Body Language - Awkward. However, live rocks! Action This Day - Awesome pace!. Put Out The Fire - I blast the headphones with this one. I specially like Brian's drunk solo. Life is Real - Wonderful ballad. Calling All Girls - Nonsense Las Palabras De Amor - Cringe. Worst spanish ever. Cool Cat - Fine song. One of my favourites. I don't like the bowie version Under Pressure - I like mostly the second part of the song. |
| brENsKi 22.04.2015 16:07 |
raucousmonster wrote:but. it's. just. horrible. in. totality.brENsKi wrote:The real point of my original post (which I made a pig's ear of asking admittedly :) ) was to ask if the songs on Hot Space would have stood up well next to the rest of Queen's catalogue had they been presented in a more traditional Queen style. My own view is that by and large they wouldn't because the songwriting is noticeably weaker than most other Queen albums. I'd put it on a par with The Miracle which is my own least favourite Queen album. At least on Hot Space they were trying (and failing) to do something different. The Miracle is just...well, mostly average songs with mostly terrible production values.raucousmonster wrote: Could Hot Space be redone in a more traditional Queen style?i f*cking-well hope not...as Ade Edmondson put it so eloquently: "Never, ever bloody anything ever!" there;s a saying "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".... Hot Space is in the top three of Queen "Pig's Ear" category |
| matt z 22.04.2015 16:33 |
Haha. You've just named the other 2015 Queen release. Presenting in 2015 QUEEN: PIG'S EAR A rare look into Queen 1. My Secret Fantasy (William Orbit mix) 2. Body Language 3. The Loser in the End 4. In Only Seven Days 5. Fun It 6. Stealin 7. Sweet Lady 8. A Human Body (Roger's 2015 I need royalties remix) 9. Don't lose your head (extended remix) 10. A Dozen Red Roses For My Darling 11. Staying Power (C_Matt remix with space ship, confused by QPL into being an original remix) 12. "Are you running"/Blurred Vision mash up. (Just the verse are you running, not track 13 in full) Packaged in gatefold sealed with industrial strength duct tape, featuring a package of pork rinds and rancid pig's ear |
| Djdownsy 22.04.2015 18:09 |
The King Of Rhye wrote:I could be wrong, but I think Matt is referring to 'Trampled Underfoot'. They do admittedly have some similarities.matt z wrote: Staying Power (*even if ripped off from Zeppelin)Huh?? You just lost me there.......what Zeppelin song is Staying Power ripped off from????? |
| matt z 22.04.2015 19:52 |
Djdownsy wrote:Actually it was someone else's discovery. I'm not a huge Zeppelin fan.The King Of Rhye wrote:I could be wrong, but I think Matt is referring to 'Trampled Underfoot'. They do admittedly have some similarities.matt z wrote: Staying Power (*even if ripped off from Zeppelin)Huh?? You just lost me there.......what Zeppelin song is Staying Power ripped off from????? OUT ON THE TILES from III It was brought up on a plagiarism thread along with Joe Jackson and KEEP PASSING THE OPEN WINDOWS. Songs influenced by etc. Sometimes it's just a style "borrowed" or a delivery style, or theme I.e. Ghostbusters and the invisible man. ... and outright near theft in the case of BREAKTHRU and THE BOYS OF SUMMER. |
| BETA215 23.04.2015 01:08 |
^ I remember that thread! :) |
| master marathon runner 23.04.2015 01:21 |
Probably sub conscious , if at all, the mighty Queen resorting to creative theft ??!!! - I should cocoa. |
| thomasquinn 32989 23.04.2015 04:18 |
brENsKi wrote:raucousmonster wrote:but. it's. just. horrible. in. totality. there;s a saying "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".... Hot Space is in the top three of Queen "Pig's Ear" categorybrENsKi wrote:The real point of my original post (which I made a pig's ear of asking admittedly :) ) was to ask if the songs on Hot Space would have stood up well next to the rest of Queen's catalogue had they been presented in a more traditional Queen style. My own view is that by and large they wouldn't because the songwriting is noticeably weaker than most other Queen albums. I'd put it on a par with The Miracle which is my own least favourite Queen album. At least on Hot Space they were trying (and failing) to do something different. The Miracle is just...well, mostly average songs with mostly terrible production values.raucousmonster wrote: Could Hot Space be redone in a more traditional Queen style?i f*cking-well hope not...as Ade Edmondson put it so eloquently: "Never, ever bloody anything ever!" I'm pretty sure it's in the top 1, but that doesn't mean it could not be made better / less bad with some (ok, a *lot*) of retouching. |
| cmsdrums 23.04.2015 04:27 |
Djdownsy wrote:How ironic for Zep to be on the receiving end of this.....and only to a degree of something sounding 'a bit similar' and maybe reminiscent of another piece, rather than Page & Plant's proven route of simply lifting whole chunks of music and lyrics and then sitting back and taking the praise for their wonderful composition.....!!!The King Of Rhye wrote:I could be wrong, but I think Matt is referring to 'Trampled Underfoot'. They do admittedly have some similarities.matt z wrote: Staying Power (*even if ripped off from Zeppelin)Huh?? You just lost me there.......what Zeppelin song is Staying Power ripped off from????? |
| Oscar J 23.04.2015 10:32 |
Trampled Underfoot is way too good to sound similar to Staying Power, IMO. |
| Your Fairy King 23.04.2015 10:41 |
I would like if side 2 of HS had been recorded and produced with a heavier sound. Despite being a die-hard 70s fan, everything on side 1 except BL works for me. I absolutely LOVE Staying Power. |
| Your Fairy King 23.04.2015 10:53 |
matt z wrote: Haha. You've just named the other 2015 Queen release. Presenting in 2015 QUEEN: PIG'S EAR A rare look into Queen 7. Sweet LadyDon't be talking smack about SL! The ride out solos on the live version still kill me every time - and yes you CAN waltz to it. |
| Oscar J 23.04.2015 11:41 |
Sweet Lady is extremely underrated. Instrumentally it's probably among the trickiest things they ever did - complete with the double time section at 260 bpm being significantly faster than any of their other studio performances by some margin, including SCC. I keep coming back to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW3L9BphQgY Just listen to Deacon's bass work from 2.50 and onwards. And boy, were Taylor's double strokes on the bass drum tighter than the year before on SCC, even though the pace is faster. I'm thinking he probably got his bass drum speed up while playing SCC live on their SHA tour. |
| Sebastian 26.04.2015 01:59 |
It's certainly got a magnificent demonstration of their skills as instrumentalists, but the song itself is not even on Brian's top fifty or the band's top one-hundred in my opinion. Vocals (both lead and backing) are alright but there are ten songs on the same album where they're much better. |
| Oscar J 26.04.2015 05:38 |
Good point - perhaps it should mainly be enjoyed for being a display of their instrumental abilities rather than being a good song. |
| brENsKi 26.04.2015 06:14 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote:loads of re-writing (who'll do that for the Freddie-written songs? and some of the instrumentation and arrangement is fekking abysmal.brENsKi wrote: i f*cking-well hope not...as Ade Edmondson put it so eloquently: "Never, ever bloody anything ever!" but. it's. just. horrible. in. totality. there;s a saying "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".... Hot Space is in the top three of Queen "Pig's Ear" categoryI'm pretty sure it's in the top 1, but that doesn't mean it could not be made better / less bad with some (ok, a *lot*) of retouching. actually - i take it all back - Hot Space can definitely be improved - but only by sealing the mastertapes in concrete and dumping them at the bottom of the Mariana Trench. |