The King Of Rhye 19.01.2015 18:57 |
We all know Queen famously had the 'no synthesizers' disclaimer throughout the seventies.....and I remember Brian said a few times something to the effect of that they started using them in 80s because the ones that were out there at the start of Queen's career were relatively primitive and they could now do things on them they couldnt before. I always kinda wondered about that, though......... I'm sure it's true to some extent, but then what about bands like ELP and King Crimson that were doing crazy stuff with synthesizers even before then? Maybe Queen was just behind the technological curve on that one? lol |
luthorn 19.01.2015 21:58 |
It's like George Lucas and special effects. Certain things should be kept away from certain people. Everything in moderation. |
winterspelt 19.01.2015 23:47 |
Some synths like the mellotron were really tricky and limited, you can hear how the tapes went out of tune (because of the heat produced by the lightning, I think) in the old Zeppelin bootlegs. According to Rick Wakeman, a non working moog would take hours to repair, even for their inventors. Also, I think it was just a way to be creative, using all those layers of sounds and studio tricks. Perhaps it was just a matter of ego: To show that they could do things nobody could achieve before... |
Sebastian 20.01.2015 05:50 |
The King Of Rhye wrote: We all know Queen famously had the 'no synthesizers' disclaimer throughout the seventies....To be fair, they only had the disclaimer in 1973, 1974, 1975 and 1976. That's 40% of the seventies. The King Of Rhye wrote: I remember Brian said a few times something to the effect of that they started using them in 80sTo be fair, they started in the seventies. Even ignoring the stylophone at the end of the second album (reportedly recorded in August 1973), there's the OB-X on 'Coming Soon' and 'Sail Away Sweet Sister', both of which were recorded in 1979. |
Togg 20.01.2015 08:11 |
I think unless you were an out and out keyboard player the early synths were very difficult to use and get a 'human' feel, they were fine if you wanted to spend month programming like Pete Townsend, but trying to play them in the way Brian likes to play was nearly impossible at first, pitch bending came in later and then things got more easy to produce notes the 'sing' To be honest I always really classed the electronic piano in You're My Best Friend as a type of synth... even though I guess it's not officially one. |
The King Of Rhye 20.01.2015 11:02 |
Interesting input here........guess I dont really know that much about synthesizers after all.........lol |
mooghead 20.01.2015 12:09 |
"a non working moog would take hours to repair" Tis true :-( |
Sebastian 20.01.2015 13:00 |
Togg wrote: To be honest I always really classed the electronic piano in You're My Best Friend as a type of synth... even though I guess it's not officially one.Not just officially, but in terms of its mechanics. It's like categorising Brian's guitar as a balalaika. |
cmsdrums 20.01.2015 15:26 |
I don't believe they didn't use synthesisers early on as any kind of artistic snobbery, but simply didn't deem them necessary; they put the disclaimer purely because they didn't want people to hear some of the sounds Brian's was able to produce on his guitar and assume they were synths. |
The King Of Rhye 20.01.2015 16:43 |
cmsdrums wrote: I don't believe they didn't use synthesisers early on as any kind of artistic snobbery, but simply didn't deem them necessary; they put the disclaimer purely because they didn't want people to hear some of the sounds Brian's was able to produce on his guitar and assume they were synths.That's it...I think Brian said that they put the disclaimer there because people were saying KYA had 'nice synthesizer work'... |
The Real Wizard 20.01.2015 18:41 |
winterspelt wrote: Perhaps it was just a matter of ego: To show that they could do things nobody could achieve before...Innovation = ego... ? Really ? |
winterspelt 20.01.2015 22:25 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Innovation =/= ego but it is clear that the band's innovation was partially driven by their egos. Nothing wrong with that, cause their ego was the reason why they wanted to be the best.winterspelt wrote: Perhaps it was just a matter of ego: To show that they could do things nobody could achieve before...Innovation = ego... ? Really ? There are different kinds of ego, of course! Its clear that their ego was not the kind of ego who drives Malmsteen's behavior! |
*goodco* 20.01.2015 22:44 |
A few more recent comments on the 'no synth' bit contained in this recent thread link Had a friend way back who was a pretty good guitar player. He became hooked on the band after listening to ADATR because he could not fathom how a guitar could sound that way. So the 'no synths' statement garnered at least one appreciative fan to the band. |
BETA215 20.01.2015 22:59 |
winterspelt wrote:The Real Wizard wrote:Innovation =/= ego but it is clear that the band's innovation was partially driven by their egos. Nothing wrong with that, cause their ego was the reason why they wanted to be the best. There are different kinds of ego, of course! Its clear that their ego was not the kind of ego who drives Malmsteen's behavior!winterspelt wrote: Perhaps it was just a matter of ego: To show that they could do things nobody could achieve before...Innovation = ego... ? Really ? Too many egos for today... ;) |
The Real Wizard 21.01.2015 00:53 |
winterspelt wrote:Ha, yes ! Fair play.The Real Wizard wrote:Innovation =/= ego but it is clear that the band's innovation was partially driven by their egos. Nothing wrong with that, cause their ego was the reason why they wanted to be the best. There are different kinds of ego, of course! Its clear that their ego was not the kind of ego who drives Malmsteen's behavior!winterspelt wrote: Perhaps it was just a matter of ego: To show that they could do things nobody could achieve before...Innovation = ego... ? Really ? |
Togg 21.01.2015 02:47 |
Sebastian wrote:Probably true... haTogg wrote: To be honest I always really classed the electronic piano in You're My Best Friend as a type of synth... even though I guess it's not officially one.Not just officially, but in terms of its mechanics. It's like categorising Brian's guitar as a balalaika. Didn't I read somewhere Freddie refused to play the electronic piano Deacon used because he hated the sound? or was that Brian? Either way I think they all felt the sounds generated at the time by electronic keyboards were pretty poor |
Sebastian 21.01.2015 04:06 |
That point's been taken out of proportion to say the least. What Fred said was that he wouldn't like to play that when he had access to 'a superb grand piano' (he probably meant the white Bechstein he played on 'Bo Rhap'). Still, Fred had no problem in playing a Wurly on stage when he was given one (link and, of course, recorded loads and loads of synthesisers from 1979 onwards. Brian had no problem with playing e-pianos as he played one on 'Teo Torriatte,' as well as harmonium... and other types of keyboards elsewhere (e.g., organ on 'Now I'm Here' and 'Marriage of Dale and Ming,' synths and digital pianos here and there). |
Oscar J 21.01.2015 07:41 |
There's an organ on Now I'm Here? Is that the high pitched sound in the "explosive" parts of the song? |
ludwigs 21.01.2015 09:52 |
Oscar J wrote: There's an organ on Now I'm Here? Is that the high pitched sound in the "explosive" parts of the song?No, that's sped-up slide guitars. The organ enters just at the, "whatever comes of you and me" after the guitar solos and continues holding the D chord under the guitar intro 'theme' reprise. |
The Real Wizard 21.01.2015 11:26 |
ludwigs wrote:Pertinent audio is attached :)Oscar J wrote: There's an organ on Now I'm Here? Is that the high pitched sound in the "explosive" parts of the song?No, that's sped-up slide guitars. The organ enters just at the, "whatever comes of you and me" after the guitar solos and continues holding the D chord under the guitar intro 'theme' reprise. |
The Real Wizard 21.01.2015 11:37 |
Sebastian wrote: Still, Fred had no problem in playing a Wurly on stage when he was given one (linkHa, yes ... but he wasn't given much of a choice in that case. They had to play their hit song Seven Seas Of Rhye, and that was what the room provided for them. Oh, to have a tape of that.. |
Oscar J 21.01.2015 11:55 |
Wow, cool! Never heard the organ before, it's pretty deeply buried in the mix. |
The Real Wizard 21.01.2015 12:59 |
The multi-track stuff is incredible. It's like learning how the pyramids were built. |
ludwigs 21.01.2015 13:20 |
The Real Wizard wrote: The multi-track stuff is incredible. It's like learning how the pyramids were built.Who needs multi-tracks? ha ha ;-) |
cmsdrums 21.01.2015 13:36 |
It does amaze me, and make me wonder what people have been listening to all these years if they've never heard that organ on Now I'm Here....:-/ |
ludwigs 21.01.2015 14:04 |
cmsdrums wrote: It does amaze me, and make me wonder what people have been listening to all these years if they've never heard that organ on Now I'm Here....:-/^^^ Yes. It takes over where the piano stabs end during the guitar solo. This was like a topic posted on a Red Special forum years back (and also here, if I recall) Sounds that people hadn't been aware of on Queen tracks. (Door slam in 'Loser in the End' and all that) |
Oscar J 21.01.2015 14:24 |
Hilarious, I hear it so clearly now listening to the song. |
ludwigs 21.01.2015 15:30 |
Oscar J wrote: Hilarious, I hear it so clearly now listening to the song.And that is how your ears get trained. For those of us that are really 'anal' about listening it seems strange how other don't hear these things. That's NOT in any way a slate or bad thing. It's good that people do now start to alter their listening to hone in on smaller. less noticeable sounds. |
The King Of Rhye 21.01.2015 15:43 |
I remember a thread here a long long time ago (in a Queenzone far far away) about stuff like that......one thing I always noticed was that theres a stray piano note or something in the middle of the acapella section of The Prophets song.... |
Oscar J 21.01.2015 16:05 |
It is indeed a bad thing having "untrained" ears after taking classical piano and guitar lessons for 3/4 of your life. I must say I feel a little uncomfortable being spoken to like a musical novice here. But indeed, I've never listened to NIH with earphones looking for details. It's a rather trivial rock piece to me, a grab-a-beer-crank-up-the-volume-on-your-cheap-stereo sort of song. Guess it's slightly more layered than I thought, so thanks for the insight. |
Oscar J 21.01.2015 16:13 |
The King Of Rhye wrote: I remember a thread here a long long time ago (in a Queenzone far far away) about stuff like that......one thing I always noticed was that theres a stray piano note or something in the middle of the acapella section of The Prophets song....Yeah, it even gets repeated in the tape delay. A B ? getting caught up by Freddie's mic, perhaps somebody in the studio played a note to give him the key? |
ludwigs 21.01.2015 16:16 |
Oscar J wrote: It is indeed a bad thing having "untrained" ears after taking classical piano and guitar lessons for 3/4 of your life. I must say I feel a little uncomfortable being spoken to like a musical novice here. But indeed, I've never listened to NIH with earphones looking for details. It's a rather trivial rock piece to me, a grab-a-beer-crank-up-the-volume-on-your-cheap-stereo sort of song. Guess it's slightly more layered than I thought, so thanks for the insight.I'm in NO way trying to suggest you are any way less musically trained or inclined! That was NOT my intention. My remark was aimed more at the 'general' listeners. Maybe my 'sad' life of spending countless hours to pick out/notate/transcribe/replicate all this Queen stuff makes me a little - "Why can't x/y/z hear these notes??" No offence intended at all. Maybe my wording wasn't correct? I tend to write on-the-fly.... |
Oscar J 21.01.2015 16:29 |
Ah, thanks for clearing that up, probably a slight overreaction on my part. I am painfully aware of that there are many people who know Queen's songs much better than I do, and I admire you guys for it! :-) |
ludwigs 21.01.2015 16:50 |
The King Of Rhye wrote: I remember a thread here a long long time ago (in a Queenzone far far away) about stuff like that......one thing I always noticed was that theres a stray piano note or something in the middle of the acapella section of The Prophets song....I posted then and I believe it was purely a 'vocal cue' for the next note. 'F' after the 'round'. |
ludwigs 21.01.2015 16:51 |
stupid site!! |
tomchristie22 21.01.2015 17:18 |
Oscar J wrote: ...I've never listened to NIH with earphones looking for details. It's a rather trivial rock piece to me, a grab-a-beer-crank-up-the-volume-on-your-cheap-stereo sort of song. Guess it's slightly more layered than I thought, so thanks for the insight.Now I'm Here has lots of nice things going on. The piano rolling in in the instrumental section tops it off for me - just makes it sound that much nicer. The vocal harmonies are superb throughout - simple three part arrangements, but so punchy and melodic. Tie Your Mother Down would probably take the spot of trivial rock piece in my mind - it's one of the only songs from one of Queen's great albums that I find boring. It's still a fine, energetic rock song, but just doesn't have the same intrigue, depth and creativity as everything else on A Day at the Races. |