| tomchristie22 16.12.2014 06:35 |
The terrorist siege on a cafe in Sydney, pretty close to home for me, was tragic - 2 innocents died, and a few others were injured. There was some hope that came out of that series of events, though, in the powerful display of support for the innocent Islamic people of Australia who will likely suffer public backlash for a crime they had no part in. There's nothing hopeful to be found in the current events in Pakistan, though; the Taliban massacre on the Peshawar Military School has left (roughly) 132 dead, over 100 of whom were children. A further 250 are injured. Sickening. |
| Costa86 16.12.2014 07:21 |
Is this the world we created? What did we do it for? Is this the world we invaded? Against the law This could be heaven for everyone. |
| BETA215 16.12.2014 07:31 |
A lot of things happen every day in my country. It's horrible, but in some way you get used to hear this iniquities. Not terrorist histories or something like that, only normal people killing other people. But, at the end of the day, it's almost the same. People die due to other people wanting free food/clothes/TVs instead of working. But not that quantity of people every day... Used to or not, it's still horrible. And shouldn't happen. But due to mafias, greed, anything can happen. |
| The Real Wizard 16.12.2014 14:19 |
And to think, other members of our species recently just adhesed a lander to a moving comet. Our race sure has a long way to go. |
| mooghead 16.12.2014 16:20 |
I think its time we all stopped fannying around and blew the cavemen cunts out of the caves they live in |
| winterspelt 16.12.2014 23:16 |
You know, I think it happened because of the lack of vision from the government, there were already many alarms coming from different agencies and even some threats. As someone who is very interested in military inteligence and stuff like that, it did surprised me that there were no clear actions by the police, military etc... I know its not the kind of stuff you want to hear but I, who live in a country in which stuff like that happens every day, feel the need to tell people who havent experienced this kind of horror that they must be critics towards police, government and militar actions (or lack of). Im going to be honest, it seems that the police didnt had any idea about what to do, or how do deal with the situation. Now, I truly wish Im wrong but I think the worst is yet to come, not in terms of threats but, as you already wrote, the wish for vengeance, the fear and the hate towards the muslims. I truly wish you all over there to find peace and get rid of the fear that must be surround you, I know how you feel! I live in Monterrey Mexico, which was one of the 10 most peaceful cities in the continent and in 2010 we were from the top 10 peaceful to the 40 most dangerous cities in the world (even more dangerous that many war zones, BBC had this amazing video called Monterrey, the City of Massacres a few years ago) I and many other bystanders were in the cross fire between drug cartels, crossfire between cops and soldiers, etc etc so believe me, I know how hard it is to live with fear, that's why my advise is to stop having fear and try to live as usual, be critic, very critic of the security forces and take care... Sending you good vibes and strength |
| Costa86 17.12.2014 05:11 |
The Australian police force is seemingly not as well trained for this sort of thing as its British or American counterparts. They have extremely serious customs and border security, but not anti-terrorism training. Hate towards the "cavemen" is natural, but you really need to see deeper and try to understand why these Muslim extremists hate us. Who made them hate us? What was behind the American invasion of Iraq? And so on. We the citizens are ALWAYS on the losing end of things, and the people behind the scenes keep making their billions through things like foreign wars. |
| brENsKi 17.12.2014 16:35 |
what it needs now is a G20 conference titled "we're going to wipe these c*nts off the face off the earth" - that's the only way they can be in no doubt that EVERYONE is after them. then G20 needs to deploy forces from every direct until these idiots are holed up in the mountains...final stage? nuke the fucking mountains once the entire command structure is gone the "lone wolf" type cretins that commit atrocities such as Australia this week will have no "sense of belonging". the time for education and reasoning has long since passed. when will we learn? people that fly planes into buildings, kidnap girls, blow up commuter trains and buses, schools and shopping malls only understand one language - fire with fire |
| Saint Jiub 17.12.2014 20:21 |
Costa86 wrote: The Australian police force is seemingly not as well trained for this sort of thing as it's British or American counterparts. They have extremely serious customs and border security, but not anti-terrorism training. Hate towards the "cavemen" is natural, but you really need to see deeper and try to understand why these Muslim extremists hate us. Who made them hate us? What was behind the American invasion of Iraq? And so on. We the citizens are ALWAYS on the losing end of things, and the people behind the scenes keep making their billions through things like foreign wars. ... It is difficult to look for logic from cavemen, when school children lacking penises are kidnapped en masse because they are receiving an education that is not officially sanctioned by Allah. |
| thomasquinn 32989 18.12.2014 05:32 |
Are you people really this daft? You're giving ISIS EXACTLY what they want!!! ISIS wants Muslims to believe that the world hates them and wants to destroy them. Right now, the Danes seem to be the only people who realize this, and their policy towards Jihadists is, not coincidentally, by far the most succesful. By means of anti-Islamic rhetoric and by attacking ISIS-types through slurs against Islam, you are driving more Muslims right into their arms. Not because they like ISIS, but because they're increasingly scared of Western Islamophobes. The same kind of thing happened in Germany in the 1930s - an enormous rise in the number of Jews who joined communist groups. Not because they sympathized with communism per se, but because they were scared shitless by the nazis, who kept saying that the communists were a front for Jewish interests. What we need is more of the #illridewithyou, and less of the racism. Fighting hate with more hate is as stupid as it gets. The past two weeks, there have been two lethal shootings near where I live (fully doubling the annual homicide rate, I might add). This is part of a recently escalated but decades old feud between two groups of orthodox protestants (Christian fundamentalist nutjobs). How would you think regular orthodox protestants and even moderate protestants would respons if we started a campaign saying Christianity = Violence, out with Christian terrorists and the likes? Do you think that would drive them away from these extremists? Or do you think they'd close ranks a little further? |
| brENsKi 18.12.2014 10:04 |
Casper, if i'd lost someone close to me in any such atrocity, i'd find your comment insensitive, insulting and without any due regard. These "people" will not be stopped by any form of dialogue. the only way to make the world safer for the majority is to completely eradicate the minority who continue to kill in the name of their God. to bastardise a saying: the needs of the many MUST outweigh the desires of a few. ps - this is NOT fighting hate with hate. This is eradicating fire by the means the hate-preachers best understand - more fire. The world that remains will be no worse for the absence of these lunatics. pps - if "they" really do believe that strapping an extra-large vest on before they go out in public - is part of a cause that gains them a reward in the afterlife, then I for one would not object in any manner to the western infidels helping these people into the afterlife a little sooner than they expected. |
| Costa86 18.12.2014 12:26 |
brENsKi, do you not think that if somehow all the terrorists are eradicated, a new brand of terrorists will emerge in their stead? A new potential terrorist is born every day. The root of the problem is not the radicalisation itself, but what causes people to develop the need to radicalise themselves and others. And what causes this? It is multi-factorial, and we the citizens don't know the half of it. The West is as much to blame for what is happening as are the extremist Muslims. I agree that, in the short-term, we must do all we can to extinguish dangerous groups like ISIL/ISIS. Yes, they must be stopped from continuing to cause harm in the immediate future. But this is not a long-term solution, and certainly eradicating people isn't going to solve anything, because it won't solve what is at the root of this. |
| brENsKi 18.12.2014 16:23 |
i agree with you completely. but there is an important caveat. if you're diagnosed with cancer - your consultant will remove/eradicate it first and then address the causes afterward. you cannot address the cause while the cancer spreads/grows and destroys life. the Muslim extremest terrorism campaign is a cancer, it needs wiping out first and foremost. full stop. |
| tomchristie22 19.12.2014 02:02 |
Today, eight children ranging from 18 months to 15 years were stabbed to death in their Queensland home. What the fuck is happening...? It must be that one act of violence in the public eye spurs other deranged people into more immediate action. |
| thomasquinn 32989 19.12.2014 04:40 |
brENsKi wrote: Casper, if i'd lost someone close to me in any such atrocity, i'd find your comment insensitive, insulting and without any due regard. These "people" will not be stopped by any form of dialogue. the only way to make the world safer for the majority is to completely eradicate the minority who continue to kill in the name of their God. to bastardise a saying: the needs of the many MUST outweigh the desires of a few. ps - this is NOT fighting hate with hate. This is eradicating fire by the means the hate-preachers best understand - more fire. The world that remains will be no worse for the absence of these lunatics. pps - if "they" really do believe that strapping an extra-large vest on before they go out in public - is part of a cause that gains them a reward in the afterlife, then I for one would not object in any manner to the western infidels helping these people into the afterlife a little sooner than they expected.Summary: yes, you really are this daft. You are unable to comprehend that by going along with anti-Islamic rhetoric, you're driving more Muslims into the hands of ISIS out of sheer fear of the west. Your "this is not fighting hate with hate. This is eradicating fire [with] [...] more fire" illustrates that you don't get it - do you see that you YOURSELF put down a tautology matching mine? Anyway, your knee-jerk war-and-retaliation response is understandable, but still pointless. But of course, this is going to be my fault for misunderstanding you again, because you are so reasonable and I always take your words out of context, naturally. It's getting a little old. We judge people one at a time. When we start juding by the group, we're no better than nazis. Muslims are afraid. Most of ISIS and related groups' victims are Muslims, yet those who don't have to fear ISIS now have to fear the 'civilized' west. That is something each and every one of us should be ashamed of. When children are afraid of being attacked, locked up or thrown out of the country in our liberal, democratic, modern western countries, simply because of their religion, then we are all guilty of a grave evil. |
| brENsKi 19.12.2014 07:35 |
Casper - stop putting words in my mouth. You talk rubbish - it is not anti-Islamic Rhetoric to want extremists removed. Nowhere did i say Muslims...i said terrorists and extremists. I don't think any Muslim would object to the eradication of these extremists. I also find your assumption that everyone "lumps all Muslims together as terrorists" to be highly insulting - you do not know what "most people think" - you only know what YOU think, and you certainly can't prove that "most Muslims" feel victimised or singled out - that statement is in essence a sweeping generalisation that paves the way and endorses the "do nothing, left wing hand-wringers" policy. time has come for action...and EVERY single right thinking, peace loving, decent human being will want these extremists removed - by any means necessary. I really hope for YOUR sake, that YOU never lose someone close to you in one of these atrocities. because Casper, unfortunately - that's the only way you'll every see a different viewpoint. It's a pity you can only ever see your own naive viewpoint as being the only valid one. especially when, in this instance decades of world govts appeasing various terrorists groups is proven to achieve nothing...all this approach has ever done is allow these factions to gain momentum and get bigger and stronger. You talk about Nazis...and how exactly would YOU have stopped the Nazis Casper? - thru Dialogue and education? not a f**king chance - and YOU KNOW IT. these current "Nazis" IS/ISIL/ISIS - will only be defeated by the same means that defeated Hitler. |
| BETA215 19.12.2014 08:37 |
Can't we use here the Godwin's law? |
| brENsKi 19.12.2014 08:55 |
BETA215 wrote: Can't we use here the Godwin's law?usually, yes. But as Casper said "N***" and I then used the term again then the second cancels out the first. that's my fault, wholly - as i didn't react to his using it the way i should've. therefore until a third reference occurs - the thread is still live. apols. |
| Costa86 19.12.2014 09:38 |
brENsKi wrote: i agree with you completely. but there is an important caveat. if you're diagnosed with cancer - your consultant will remove/eradicate it first and then address the causes afterward. you cannot address the cause while the cancer spreads/grows and destroys life. the Muslim extremest terrorism campaign is a cancer, it needs wiping out first and foremost. full stop.Yeah I agree that the first thing to do is to stop the cancer from existing and spreading. We need to get to the cause of the terrorism (we won't ever get there completely actually, because it suits the powers that be to keep the status quo), but before that, the threat has to be dealt with. There's no dichotomy between the West and the extremist Muslims. George Bush may have been less evil than Bin Laden, but they're far from black and white. It's all different shades of grey. And we the citizens have so little of a clue. This is all about money and power. No Western leaders really give a shit about the common people, and the real power behind the curtain and behind the leaders give even less of a shit. Don't want to go rambling on... but there really are invisible people in the background, behind the curtain, who control everything. I don't think they're any specifically organised or named group (e.g. I don't believe they necessarily have a name like the Bilderberg group, etc.) - but there are extremely powerful and wealthy people who pull the strings. This is a fact. It's not a conspiracy theory. And we have no power - all we can do is discuss things without even having half of the facts. Extremist Muslims are bad, of course, and they must be stopped. But the West (not the citizens, the people in charge) commits atrocities which are just as bad. And speaking about the N****, do you think Hitler really wanted to fight with France and Britain? Of course he didn't. What resulted from WWII? The bloody cancerous Communist Soviets destroyed Eastern Europe and killed millions. And Churchill and Roosevelt made a criminal pact with that devil, Stalin. Who was behind all this? The same people who are behind all we are discussing now. Stalin killed more people than Hitler, and yet the West shook hands with him. Why? Leaders don't give a shit about people getting killed, all they care about is power, and the people behind them, pulling their strings, hold all the power. |
| The King Of Rhye 19.12.2014 20:22 |
^^^^ Aaaaaaaaand that didnt take long!!!
brENsKi wrote:BETA215 wrote: Can't we use here the Godwin's law?usually, yes. But as Casper said "N***" and I then used the term again then the second cancels out the first. that's my fault, wholly - as i didn't react to his using it the way i should've. therefore until a third reference occurs - the thread is still live. apols. |
| BETA215 19.12.2014 21:01 |
The King Of Rhye wrote: ^^^^ Aaaaaaaaand that didnt take long!!!+1brENsKi wrote:BETA215 wrote: Can't we use here the Godwin's law?usually, yes. But as Casper said "N***" and I then used the term again then the second cancels out the first. that's my fault, wholly - as i didn't react to his using it the way i should've. therefore until a third reference occurs - the thread is still live. apols. XD Admins, please. Apply the law! XOXO, your dear BETA tester. |
| brENsKi 20.12.2014 03:17 |
you do also realise don't you that Godwin's law only applies until someone makes a point of requesting Admin/Moderators action upon it. Your request has now removed the existence of GL to this thread ad infinitum. well done, lol |
| thomasquinn 32989 20.12.2014 05:15 |
Abusing "Godwin's Law" is simply a form of censorship, a convenient way to look the other way when forced to consider a comparison to the situation in nazi Germany. Denouncing a comparison offhand for no reason other than an empty phrase like "Godwin's Law" (which, if you were to read up on it, doesn't say anything about the veracity or relevance of nazi-comparisons, but simply about the frequency of occurrance. Using Godwin's Law as a means of dismissing a comparison only proves that the person using it in such a way is actually ignorant of Godwin's Law) is nothing short of instating a taboo. Rendering a comparison taboo is a very dangerous move to make. If a politician were to arise tomorrow, wearing a uniform with a red arm band, having a funny moustache and ranting about how a certain religious group is to blame for all society's problems, together with their communist friends, and should be locked up in special camps away from society, people would still scream "GODWIN'S LAW!!!!" when someone suggested this might be rather similar to occurrances in the 1930s. But it's perfectly obvious that a meaningful discussion is impossible here. We've got a red-baiting madcap with a questionable knowledge of 20th century history, brENsKi who's convinced he holds the moral highground but simply resorts to claiming his words are taken out of context every time a conclusion is drawn that makes him look like less than the embodiment of reason. The worst thing is - it's actually possible that brENsKi honestly believes that I am really spinning his words, that he really believes he is perfectly reasonable and not heavily slanted at all. I certainly don't feel the least desire to continue a meaningless discussion, in which all the points I raise are ignored and instead I get accused of being insensitive for not grabbing my pitchfork and torch. Fortunately, people more civilized than brENsKi do see that the #illridewithyou campaign did a lot more good than screaming for violence and retribution. I'm going to return to a more pleasant and reasonable approach - totally ignoring rightist hate-baiters and warhawks. |
| BETA215 20.12.2014 05:18 |
I don't like to keep talking about this cause I'm not talking about the main theme, but brENsKI... man... WTF happens with you. At least for my part, I'm not trying to censorship. But you know how discussions are here. If they didn't get out when they are fresh, you will be very fucked. Case closed. |
| brENsKi 20.12.2014 06:27 |
Casper, I didn't bring up Godwin's Law - check your facts. I actually joked about it's use here. getting a little sick of you misquoting and putting words in my mouth - my words were not open to "interpretation" they are exactly as stated - there is no hidden meaning. and don't call me a hater again, ok? I've not insulted you, so kindly don't insult me. but let's state some facts here. your misquoting of me is nothing short of a lie, you may be able to use clever words like "spin" to hide the truth...but you have lied about me. the decent thing to do would be to retract. I doubt very much that you will. |
| thomasquinn 32989 20.12.2014 10:01 |
brENsKi wrote: Casper, I didn't bring up Godwin's Law - check your facts.I never said that you did. In fact, I find it a little disturbing that you assume that everything in a post of mine that mentions you in the second half is referring to you. One other thing, though you didn't reference it, I will concede: I should have phrased one sentence differently, namely "We've got a red-baiting madcap with a questionable knowledge of 20th century history, brENsKi who's convinced he holds the moral highground", where it would have been clearer if I had replaced the comma with the word "and" to further emphasize that here, too, I am talking about two DIFFERENT people. As it stands, those phrases are lacking in clarity. |
| brENsKi 20.12.2014 11:13 |
thank you |
| BETA215 20.12.2014 11:18 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: [...] We've got a red-baiting madcap with a questionable knowledge of 20th century history, [...] Sorry, but how did you come to that conclusion? I'm supposing you are talking about me. Anyway, I didn't get all the history classes I should have to know all the basics. So, to me, that isn't an humiliation or a way to treat me like an ignorant. |
| BETA215 20.12.2014 11:26 |
Also, with the phrase "XOXO, your dear BETA tester.", it's very obvious that I'm joking. I was joking with brENsKi. If you are some kind of embittered or serious guy, you can always stop commenting or ignore us. It's more easy than discuss with us. We come to this place to relax, to talk about a great band or anything, to forget all our daily problems. not to criticize or discuss not in a healthy way. |
| ParisNair 20.12.2014 15:35 |
thomasquinn wrote: Are you people really this daft? You're giving ISIS EXACTLY what they want!!! ISIS wants Muslims to believe that the world hates them and wants to destroy them. Right now, the Danes seem to be the only people who realize this, and their policy towards Jihadists is, not coincidentally, by far the most succesful. By means of anti-Islamic rhetoric and by attacking ISIS-types through slurs against Islam, you are driving more Muslims right into their arms. Not because they like ISIS, but because they're increasingly scared of Western Islamophobes. The same kind of thing happened in Germany in the 1930s - an enormous rise in the number of Jews who joined communist groups. Not because they sympathized with communism per se, but because they were scared shitless by the nazis, who kept saying that the communists were a front for Jewish interests. What we need is more of the #illridewithyou, and less of the racism. Fighting hate with more hate is as stupid as it gets. The past two weeks, there have been two lethal shootings near where I live (fully doubling the annual homicide rate, I might add). This is part of a recently escalated but decades old feud between two groups of orthodox protestants (Christian fundamentalist nutjobs). How would you think regular orthodox protestants and even moderate protestants would respons if we started a campaign saying Christianity = Violence, out with Christian terrorists and the likes? Do you think that would drive them away from these extremists? Or do you think they'd close ranks a little further?I don't agree with this opinion. The extremists rely, largely, on their own interpretation of scripture, to motivate their cadre and brainwash and recruit new members. It does not matter to them what the west thinks, or what are the views aired about terrorism on a discussion on a fourm. They did not attack Pakistani kids/civilians because they (the victims) held anti-Muslim sentiments. They looked for the justifications in the scriptures. I am also not of the opinion that the situation of the Jews in 1930s and those of the Jihadis of today is the same. The domination of Muslims in Islamic societies is total and complete. They are cannot be "scared shitless" of themselves. There virtually no mainstream campaign anywhere in the world, to my knowledge, to the effect Islam = Violence. The opposite is true, infact. Whenver a Jihadi attack happens anywhere we get an irritating overdose of "Islam is the religion of Peace". |
| ParisNair 20.12.2014 15:44 |
I think using "racism" and "hate" as a label everytime someone makes a statement that is not distinctly pro-Islam is becoming tiresome. |
| brENsKi 20.12.2014 16:29 |
finally. ^^^. thank you. |
| Donna13 21.12.2014 16:31 |
I don't know how so many people can be turned into hateful killers but it really does seem like the psychology of it has to be figured out in order to do something to prevent new recruits. I have a really old rusted pickup that I drive sometimes. Now, I need to explain that usually people honk at me all the time (well, often enough) when I drive in my "normal" car (which is pretty old, but not too old looking), because I create anger in other drivers by doing reasonable things like waiting until speeding trucks pass by before I enter the highway. (I'm a good driver. Safety first and I'm just not in a hurry enough to take unnecessary risks most of the time). But when I drive that old pickup nobody ever honks at me. I can go 50 mph in a 55 mph area if I want to, and if I have to switch lanes, nobody gets miffed enough to pass me by and cut me off with just inches to spare (as they do to teach me a lesson when I am driving the not-so-old car). So, the reality is that the really old pickup gives me instant power on the road and VIP status. People are not sure if the brakes work, so they give me a spacious buffer zone. I might as well be the president with a motorcade announcing and clearing my path. I got to thinking the other day that here I am the same driver and yet the old pickup makes me a non-target for other angry aggressive drivers. Then I thought maybe the anger and aggression might be caused by feeling inferior to others and because they do not feel inferior to someone who is driving such an old rusty pickup, their anger and desire to dominate does not get triggered. Anyway ... I saw Tom Brokaw being interviewed by David Letterman the other night. Edit: I found his perspective interesting. OK, I found the link: link The interview starts at around 18 minutes in. The part about Islamic extremist violence starts at around 31 minutes and goes until the end of the interview (about 5 minutes). |