| The Real Wizard 09.12.2014 19:24 |
Various articles have stated that up to 40 songs were rehearsed for the Works tour in 1984, which means about a dozen songs didn't make the cut. I just heard from someone directly connected to the band in 1984 precisely what they were: Great King Rat (longer version) Brighton Rock (full song) I'm In Love With My Car Sweet Lady White Man We Will Rock You (fast) Play The Game Need Your Loving Tonight Put Out The Fire Las Palabras de Amor Life Is Real (Freddie solo piano) Life Is Real (Freddie/Brian acoustic duet) Maybe tapes exist? How would Sweet Lady and White Man have sounded in the 80s? We know they rehearsed Long Away in 1977, but until now we otherwise knew very little about songs that didn't make the cut, so this is a pretty substantial bit of news. Discuss ! |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 09.12.2014 19:58 |
Woooh!!! Would be great listen the rehersals! Specially Life Is Real acoustic. Great discover Mr. Zappa! |
| Kevinrm15 09.12.2014 20:01 |
They rehearsed Long Away in 1977 ? Please tell more... |
| tomchristie22 09.12.2014 20:11 |
Wow, nice. Las Palabras De Amor is especially interesting.
Apocalipsis_Darko wrote: Woooh!!! Would be great listen the rehersals! Specially Life Is Real acoustic. Great discover Mr. Zappa!They played Life is Real a few times on the Hot Space tour with the full band - Brian played acoustic on that, so it gives some idea of what it might have sounded like, if you factor out the drums, bass and Mandel's keys. Freddie doing it solo on the piano would have been great - it's a shame they instead stopped including a Freddie solo spot like that. |
| tomchristie22 09.12.2014 20:15 |
I wonder if they'd have incorporated synths into Sweet Lady and White Man, perhaps even just to beef up the sound of the backing vocals, as they did on songs like Killer Queen on the Works tour, and Seven Seas of Rhye on the Magic tour. This'd apply more to White Man, as there's only one section with backing vocals on the live version of Sweet Lady, at least assuming that they kept the basic arrangement from the ANATO tour. |
| tomchristie22 09.12.2014 20:46 |
Thank you for finding this out and sharing! |
| The Real Wizard 09.12.2014 22:56 |
Kevinrm15 wrote: They rehearsed Long Away in 1977 ? Please tell more...All four band members were interviewed individually in early 1977 (maybe the audio is on here somewhere?), and Brian reveals this tidbit in his. |
| musicland munich 09.12.2014 23:57 |
The rehearsals for the Works Tour in July 84 were very intensive, that's for sure. Occasionally a single rehearsal could be about twelve hours long. Assumingly the 70's tunes were kicked out pretty soon, "Life is real/Las Palabras" maybe kicked out later...but that's just my personal speculation. |
| matt z 10.12.2014 00:29 |
Sounds like a great and extensive setlist. I'm sure someone in the group figured out the new album mostly sucked. |
| Benn Kempster 10.12.2014 00:31 |
>How would Sweet Lady and White Man have sounded in the 80s? As shit as the rest of the songs sounded with the over-reliance on Spike and Roger's processed drum sound. An entirely forgettable peroid of the band's stage career. |
| cmsdrums 10.12.2014 00:53 |
Well said Benn - that tour mostly sounded dreadful. It's even more frustrating to hear this, with the knowledge that Queen were so rigid with their tour sets, and once decided on they never really altered then night to night - they could easily have slotted tracks in here and there. |
| tomchristie22 10.12.2014 02:13 |
cmsdrums wrote: Well said Benn - that tour mostly sounded dreadful. It's even more frustrating to hear this, with the knowledge that Queen were so rigid with their tour sets, and once decided on they never really altered then night to night - they could easily have slotted tracks in here and there.The Works tour ran from August 1984 through May 1985. They only rehearsed those tracks before they began touring, and presumably didn't play or think about them again for the entirety of the period in which they were touring. It's very unlikely that they'd have remembered how to play them up to a presentable standard for that whole time, so spontaneously slotting them in might not have been so easy. |
| Doga 10.12.2014 03:09 |
Queen Official YT Channel is starting to upload videos of Tokyo '85, is a direct transfer of the VHS, but upscaled to 1080p. |
| Fone Bone 10.12.2014 03:11 |
That's a great great great find Bob congrats and thanks++ for sharing Thoughts ? Sometime ago I posted an analysis of the setlist tour by tour with "new songs added", "songs dropped" and "older songs revived". One of the key takeaways was that from Jazz onwards room mainly had to be made for new material only, except for the Works 84 setlist ! Your discovery shows it could have been even crazier with reviving Sweet Lady and White Man o_O It also shows that the setlist could have been closer to the Hot Space Tour than it finally was (WWRY Fast, POTF, Life Is Real even though it was seldom played) |
| 12yrslouetta 10.12.2014 03:45 |
Actually I have to disagree. I was lucky to see Queen twice in 1980 and they were great and wonderful. Saw them in 1982 and they were good – I thought they were better in 1980 actually. But in Leeds they were just fantastic. Have to say that all the Hot Space stuff they did was stupendous. You could see that they enjoyed playing those tracks. But the leap when I saw them in 1984 was incredible. The lights, the volume, the stage presentation was like nothing id ever seen from them. I saw them twice on that tour and it was maybe the best Id ever seen them. In 86 they seemed much more smiley and content with each other so it was a different experience really. In Manchester 86 for example they were fine but it was lacklustre after what I had seen from them before. But 1984 was great. Id be interested to know if people are commenting how 84 was dreadful after just listening to rips/ audio or if you actually went to any of the gigs (by the way, im not saying that you cant enjoy it if you didn’t go to any of the gigs of course). Im just wondering if anybody else who went felt if Queen had jumped a few rungs up the ladder in their live progression, or did you think after seeing them that it wasn’t great and the gig was a step backwards. |
| Benn Kempster 10.12.2014 03:54 |
......and look at what The Who are doing with their current setlists. As they did in '89 (for better or worse) they're making things interesting and dangerous as opposed to safe and boring. |
| zephead2112 10.12.2014 04:21 |
@ 12yrslouetta, I totally agree!!! Unfortunately I didn't see Queen until Leeds in 82 but as you say, that show was astounding. However, I saw them next on the Saturday night at the N.E.C. in 84 and it was unbelievable. I clearly remember seeing people standing there with their mouths open in amazement of how good Queen were that night. The sound was crystal clear and VERY powerful. That said, I raved about the show all week to my mates in the Navy as we were going to the Wembley Arena show the following Friday. Guess what? A total disappointment but largely to do with our position in the arena and the dreadful sound. Wembley and Knebworth 86 were great and obviously legendary gigs as time would come to show but after having seen 100's of gigs since, that N.E.C. show is pretty hard to beat in my book. I now look back at the 86 shows as more of a spectacle than from a performance perspective. |
| 12yrslouetta 10.12.2014 05:22 |
Thank God!!!! I thought it was just me. Any time anyone mentions the 84 tour on this forum it seems to get met with sadness and disappointment. It would be interesting to know if we are in the minority. I loved the song choices as well - I couldn’t believe it when they pulled out Great King Rat. If I remember I think they played Stone Cold Crazy, I may be wrong. Great gigs indeed. And yeah, the sound quality at Wembley was horrible. And it wasn’t warm either if I remember. |
| FlorianS 10.12.2014 06:01 |
Stuttgart 1984 is one of my favorite bootlegs. I think the band was on fire that night! |
| cmsdrums 10.12.2014 06:24 |
12yrslouetta wrote: Actually I have to disagree. I was lucky to see Queen twice in 1980 and they were great and wonderful. Saw them in 1982 and they were good – I thought they were better in 1980 actually. But in Leeds they were just fantastic. Have to say that all the Hot Space stuff they did was stupendous. You could see that they enjoyed playing those tracks. But the leap when I saw them in 1984 was incredible. The lights, the volume, the stage presentation was like nothing id ever seen from them. I saw them twice on that tour and it was maybe the best Id ever seen them. In 86 they seemed much more smiley and content with each other so it was a different experience really. In Manchester 86 for example they were fine but it was lacklustre after what I had seen from them before. But 1984 was great. Id be interested to know if people are commenting how 84 was dreadful after just listening to rips/ audio or if you actually went to any of the gigs (by the way, im not saying that you cant enjoy it if you didn’t go to any of the gigs of course). Im just wondering if anybody else who went felt if Queen had jumped a few rungs up the ladder in their live progression, or did you think after seeing them that it wasn’t great and the gig was a step backwards.Good post. Based on all I hear from those present at the gigs, the sound was great in the room, and I wholeheartedly agree that it was a great setlist too, and so I think a lot of the negative comments about The Works tour comes from the audio mixes of the officially released gigs from then: the (in most minds) unwise choice of really inappropriate use of keys and electronic drums (along with Roger's chrome Ludwig kit which did not suit their sound at all). The audio mixes (Rio, Japan 85) are atrocious on the official releases; guitar muddy and buried in the mix, keys too synthesised, and electronic drums too loud and poorly selected as to when to play them. I have no issues with keys being used; I think they work brilliantly on the Magic Tour - Now I'm Here, A Kind of Magic, Tie Your Mother Down etc.. . all sound great with subtle piano playing. I can only think however that on The Works tour that Spike and the band were testing various things out, and the 'trial and error' stage was more 'error' than 'trial' , as everything was just far too synth based on the keys sounds on most songs. Roger's use of the electronic pads was poor in a lot of places – Another One Bites The Dust being a particular example where the songs just suffers for the whole song being played on them. Thankfully, that particular itch seems to have been scratched by 86 too! Having heard the remixes from the tour released as bonus tracks (It's A Hard Life and Rock In Rio Blues), there is massive potential to get a fantastic sounding live release from The Works period, so I haven't given up hope just yet! |
| tomchristie22 10.12.2014 06:56 |
12yrslouetta wrote: If I remember I think they played Stone Cold Crazy, I may be wrong. Great gigs indeed.Indeed they did :) It seems to be something of a consensus that The Works shows sounded better in person. |
| Oscar J 10.12.2014 07:09 |
cmsdrums wrote:... (along with Roger's chrome Ludwig kit which did not suit their sound at all). This sounds interesting - could you explain a bit more what you mean? |
| MadTheSwine73 10.12.2014 08:20 |
Great King Rat (longer version) I think that could have been amazing, doing it like they did in 1973. Brighton Rock (full song) I don't know if this would have made a big difference, as it would have just book-ended Brian's solo. Still would have been great. I'm In Love With My Car This would have been great, since Roger would have sung lead on a song. Sweet Lady, White Man Sweet Lady would have been interesting, but I think White Man could have been more amazing than ever, with a super heavy live rendition. We Will Rock You (fast) I don't think this would have really worked, to be honest. Sounds a bit out of place, unless they'd get rid of the Machines intro. Play The Game, Need Your Loving Tonight, Put Out The Fire, Las Palabras de Amor All very nice, especially Play The Game and Las Palabras de Amor. Life Is Real (Freddie solo piano)/Life Is Real (Freddie/Brian acoustic duet) One of my favourite Queen songs, I would have loved this. |
| cmsdrums 10.12.2014 08:48 |
Oscar J wrote:happy to....cmsdrums wrote:This sounds interesting - could you explain a bit more what you mean?... (along with Roger's chrome Ludwig kit which did not suit their sound at all). Roger is famous for his 'big, open' drum sound, which in conjunction with his playing style has always been enhanced by his choice of drums - mostly until the last few years these were Ludwig Classic Maple drums. The kit he used on The Works tour (and Hot Space from meomory too)was still a Maple kit, but finished with a full ply of chrome all over. This produces a very distinct, and very different, sound, and one that (to me) doesn't sound great for Roger, or Queen. He also chose to leave the factory Ludwig drum heads on too - most drummers use better quality, branded heads to suit their sound, and it is odd that he didn't do this for that tour. Those Ludwig heads, coupled with the layer of chrome, seem to muffle the drums and not give much clear definition, attack or ambience - all trademarks of his sound. Having said all that, the kit may have sounded incredible ithe room, but it certainly was not captured very well on any of the recordings I have heard. |
| Vocal harmony 10.12.2014 09:17 |
^^^ the overall sound, including drums, on The Works tour was very good, clear, heavy and powerful. I was a bit surprised after the tour hearing some of the recordings, the drums particularly sounded different. A strange anomaly! What was noticeable was that the drums, on the night, on both Hot Space and Works Tour shows had a more defined sound than previous tours. As regards the songs that were rehearsed but not played, I think the works setlist ideas had a lot more of BM's input after the Hot Space tour and album. It would seem that he was trying to get back to what he believed Queen were about |
| MercurialFreddie 10.12.2014 09:32 |
Wow, thanks Wizard for posting this. It is indeed a great info. White Man and Sweet Lady would sound dreadful with those electronic drums ! A pity I'm in Love with My Car and Life is Real and so many other great tracks were crossed out of the final setlist. Wouldn't it be great if QPL released The Works Box set and started it with CD containing the rehearsal :) :) ? |
| whynot 10.12.2014 11:44 |
Saw them in 1982, 1984 and 1986). I have to say that the Works tour was by far the best of these shows. Amazing set-list, best lighting rig ever and a brilliant sound system. I agree that most of the 1984 records are not that good. But live is was just brilliant. |
| gerry 10.12.2014 12:13 |
12yrslouetta : You are absolutely spot on Queen were on fire in 1982 and i too saw the band in Leeds and they were fantastic and unbeatable, Also saw Queen at Birminghams NEC in september 1984 and the sound and lights were amazing, you could not fault the band at all. People who moan on here that the sound was no good must be deaf. |
| Bad Seed 10.12.2014 14:52 |
It's such a shame we have no decent video or audio document of this tour. I never got the chance to see Queen live but a few of my mates did, stretching back to '74. All of them are in agreement that the '84 shows blew the socks off everything else. Even 'Ratty' in his book mentions The Works tour as being the very best. I'd quite like to see the 1st night of Rio released where Freddie is fairly strong vocally. 2nd night highlights as a bonus, and I bet they've got all sorts of news footage etc. which could also be added. Would be a good one IMO. |
| tomchristie22 10.12.2014 19:29 |
gerry wrote: Queen were on fire in 1982Ooooh is that why they called the Milton Keynes concert 'Queen on Fire'!? gerry wrote: People who moan on here that the sound was no good must be deaf.I haven't listened to much of The Works tour, but surely the people who 'moan' about the sound being bad have listened to bootlegs to reach that conclusion, where the sound often is bad. Based on the Japan 1985 clips that have recently been posted, for instance, the synth being used to pad out vocal harmonies sounds awful, and Brian's guitar sound often has an unnecessary chorus effect, making it sound kind of hollow. Also, it's undeniable that Freddie had vocal issues on the tour, and many bad performances. |
| horse feathers 10.12.2014 20:16 |
Sick of people slating The Works Tour, especially those who were not there. I saw them first at Elland Road 82. I posted a review of it, where other members had gone too and we re remebered certain things about that VERY LOUD gig. The works Tour I got a ticket for each of the 4 dates in England they announced. Then they added two more shows and I couldn't get tickets for those. Those that were there, and even Ratty agrees, it was the best tour they ever did, song wise, sound wise, lighting rig wise and stage wise. The bootlegs do not do it justice, remember, this was indoor and they were loud, The first night at Birmingham on the Friday, Freddie gave the mic to the crowd at the front and they passed it amongst each other. And the stage set was incredible, which no footage ever shows how good or big it was. I then saw them at Manchester, my own City, in 86. And the outdoor concert noise levels, had to be lower and they also had to come off stage by 10pm. So I couldn't hear or see them at this gig. In fact, I remember very little about it. A bit of a dissapointment, tbh. So don't knock the Works tour. The Friday night at Birmingham, was better than Elland Road, no doubt about it. |
| GERRYISADICK 10.12.2014 20:30 |
horse feathers wrote: Sick of people slating The Works Tour, especially those who were not there. I saw them first at Elland Road 82. I posted a review of it, where other members had gone too and we re remebered certain things about that VERY LOUD gig. The works Tour I got a ticket for each of the 4 dates in England they announced. Then they added two more shows and I couldn't get tickets for those. Those that were there, and even Ratty agrees, it was the best tour they ever did, song wise, sound wise, lighting rig wise and stage wise. The bootlegs do not do it justice, remember, this was indoor and they were loud, The first night at Birmingham on the Friday, Freddie gave the mic to the crowd at the front and they passed it amongst each other. And the stage set was incredible, which no footage ever shows how good or big it was. I then saw them at Manchester, my own City, in 86. And the outdoor concert noise levels, had to be lower and they also had to come off stage by 10pm. So I couldn't hear or see them at this gig. In fact, I remember very little about it. A bit of a dissapointment, tbh. So don't knock the Works tour. The Friday night at Birmingham, was better than Elland Road, no doubt about it.I will happily fuckin bash it with the revelations in this thread! |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 10.12.2014 20:44 |
Taylor Hawkins saw Queen in Boston in 1982...Ten years old, first concert! Life changing experience. He told me he loves Life is real. I heard Life is real with all the band, but more nude would be great to hear also. I love both sides of Hot Space Tour, with Morgan Fisher and the great Fred Mandel. |
| cmsdrums 11.12.2014 00:49 |
gerry wrote: People who moan on here that the sound was no good must be deaf.I'm not sure that you've read the posts properly - everyone who've seen those shows live has said that the sound was fantastic live and I don't think there's much argument about that. The complaints are from those (including those at the shows) that say the recorded and released audio from that tour is sub-standard. The two sets of audio are different. |
| jondickens1 11.12.2014 01:12 |
I cannot understand why there hasn't been a release of the Rio gigs from this tour. Sure it was released on vhs donkey's years ago with awful sound and editing, but why on earth have Queen productions not set about remastering these concerts and released them in full unedited version on bluray is beyond belief. The gigs having a fantastic set list which would appeal to the mass general public and it has a large number of there best known tracks on it. Secondly it's the concert whigh held the record for the largest audience ever at a gig. Thirdly Fred has his moustache and is probably his most iconic era. I'm just baffled as to why not so long ago the original vhs was simply put onto DVD format and re released. Yet another fantastic opportunity missed by Queen, unless they have plans for something bigger and better in the future. |
| Martin Packer 11.12.2014 01:27 |
Rio doesn't just suck audiowise but the video quality is awful, too. |
| jondickens1 11.12.2014 02:24 |
I totally agree Martin, the sound and visual quality on Rio is atrocious! However they did a grand job remastering It's a hard life, Is this the world we created and Rock in Rio blues a few years back. Imagine the unedited concert(s) in that quality and you have an epic release. |
| jondickens1 11.12.2014 02:43 |
However, Brussels 84 would be far superior to Rio due to Freddie's voice being in much better shape and also has less of those awful electronic drums. If only that concert exists in its entirety. |
| Doga 11.12.2014 02:47 |
They don't have the audio of Brussels '84. Knowing that: Tokyo '85 > Rio '85, if they have the masters of Tokyo, that isn't clear. I still prefer something from the '70s. |
| MercurialFreddie 11.12.2014 08:23 |
Is it confirmed that the audio of Brussels '84 doesn't exist ? If every audio from 1974 gigs onwards was recorded then they have it but it's only 2-track tape. |
| cmsdrums 11.12.2014 09:48 |
MercurialFreddie wrote: Is it confirmed that the audio of Brussels '84 doesn't exist ? If every audio from 1974 gigs onwards was recorded then they have it but it's only 2-track tape.I recall that Rhys Thomas has said that he found some footage (not hte whole gig though) of Brussels 84 which looks stunning, but it has no audio on at all. I supose that's not to say that a separate audio track doesn't exist too that they could marry up to it. |
| Vocal harmony 11.12.2014 10:25 |
Is there any point to a Hammersmith 75 release. Visually the set on that tour wasn't much different to what was used at the Rainbow in Nov 74. Also the set list at Hammersmith wasn't what was played on the rest of the tour, being a shortened show to fit the best of the setlist into the broadcast time. What was played, apart from the Bo Rhap bit was more or less the same as the year before. Yes it has it's place in Queen history because of what it was, but overall it repeats what the Rainbow was. IMO there are better 70's shows. Something, better than Rio, needs to be released from the Works Tour |
| NickESB 11.12.2014 12:30 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Is there any point to a Hammersmith 75 release. Visually the set on that tour wasn't much different to what was used at the Rainbow in Nov 74.Never stopped QPL when it comes to the Magic Tour. |
| Rick 11.12.2014 12:37 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Is there any point to a Hammersmith 75 release. Visually the set on that tour wasn't much different to what was used at the Rainbow in Nov 74. Also the set list at Hammersmith wasn't what was played on the rest of the tour, being a shortened show to fit the best of the setlist into the broadcast time. What was played, apart from the Bo Rhap bit was more or less the same as the year before. Yes it has it's place in Queen history because of what it was, but overall it repeats what the Rainbow was. IMO there are better 70's shows. Something, better than Rio, needs to be released from the Works TourHammy 1975 is a dull concert. Nothing special. So yeah, I agree. Hyde Park 1976 and Earls Court/Houston 1977 are far more interesting gigs. |
| The Real Wizard 11.12.2014 17:02 |
Apocalipsis_Darko wrote: Taylor Hawkins saw Queen in Boston in 1982...Ten years old, first concert! Life changing experience. He told me he loves Life is real.It was definitely Irvine Meadows 82, not Boston. He grew up in Laguna Beach :-) And he said they played Life Is Real at the show? If so, then that's the first instance of it being performed in September 82. |
| Holly2003 11.12.2014 18:02 |
Rick wrote:It may be dull due to over-familiarity now but it is a cracking concert and is worthy of a full, official release. It wouldn't be the one I would necessarily want next, but definitely I would buy an official release.Vocal harmony wrote: Is there any point to a Hammersmith 75 release. Visually the set on that tour wasn't much different to what was used at the Rainbow in Nov 74. Also the set list at Hammersmith wasn't what was played on the rest of the tour, being a shortened show to fit the best of the setlist into the broadcast time. What was played, apart from the Bo Rhap bit was more or less the same as the year before. Yes it has it's place in Queen history because of what it was, but overall it repeats what the Rainbow was. IMO there are better 70's shows. Something, better than Rio, needs to be released from the Works TourHammy 1975 is a dull concert. Nothing special. So yeah, I agree. Hyde Park 1976 and Earls Court/Houston 1977 are far more interesting gigs. |
| tomchristie22 11.12.2014 20:08 |
- |
| tomchristie22 11.12.2014 20:08 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Is there any point to a Hammersmith 75 release.Bo Rhap and Brighton Rock are the only additions. Nonetheless, it is still a different show, with slightly different renditions of songs, different costumes. The band's interaction with the audience is shown very well on Hammersmith, whereas due to the angles on the Rainbow shows (and probably the camera positioning creating a barrier), the audience might as well not exist. With Hammersmith, we're also guaranteed that the vocals are all live - this will be a nice contrast with the Rainbow, where the backing vocals have near-invariably been polished in the studio. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 11.12.2014 20:45 |
Hey, Mr. Zappa, no, he said he loves the song, because we were talking about Hot Space as a very special record ;) Yeah, he must be incorrected in the date. The only persons I talked whowere there, in Boston, was John Loungo and Fred Mandel of course, played! |
| Mr.Mouth 12.12.2014 02:26 |
Check Brighton Rock from Rio85.. Greatness! |
| cmsdrums 12.12.2014 02:51 |
tomchristie22 wrote:I'm sure any Hammersmith release will also have polished vocals; they may all be live (as in flown in from other shows as opposed to studio overdubs), but I reckon they will still 'tweak' them with autotune etc..Vocal harmony wrote: Is there any point to a Hammersmith 75 release.With Hammersmith, we're also guaranteed that the vocals are all live - this will be a nice contrast with the Rainbow, where the backing vocals have near-invariably been polished in the studio. |
| Togg 12.12.2014 04:56 |
cmsdrums wrote:i just want to pick up on a couple of things here, Rogers chrome kit wasnt a chrome kit like Bonhams, it was still Maple covered in Chrome, just like all his other kits.12yrslouetta wrote: Actually I have to disagree. I was lucky to see Queen twice in 1980 and they were great and wonderful. Saw them in 1982 and they were good – I thought they were better in 1980 actually. But in Leeds they were just fantastic. Have to say that all the Hot Space stuff they did was stupendous. You could see that they enjoyed playing those tracks. But the leap when I saw them in 1984 was incredible. The lights, the volume, the stage presentation was like nothing id ever seen from them. I saw them twice on that tour and it was maybe the best Id ever seen them. In 86 they seemed much more smiley and content with each other so it was a different experience really. In Manchester 86 for example they were fine but it was lacklustre after what I had seen from them before. But 1984 was great. Id be interested to know if people are commenting how 84 was dreadful after just listening to rips/ audio or if you actually went to any of the gigs (by the way, im not saying that you cant enjoy it if you didn’t go to any of the gigs of course). Im just wondering if anybody else who went felt if Queen had jumped a few rungs up the ladder in their live progression, or did you think after seeing them that it wasn’t great and the gig was a step backwards.Good post. Based on all I hear from those present at the gigs, the sound was great in the room, and I wholeheartedly agree that it was a great setlist too, and so I think a lot of the negative comments about The Works tour comes from the audio mixes of the officially released gigs from then: the (in most minds) unwise choice of really inappropriate use of keys and electronic drums (along with Roger's chrome Ludwig kit which did not suit their sound at all). The audio mixes (Rio, Japan 85) are atrocious on the official releases; guitar muddy and buried in the mix, keys too synthesised, and electronic drums too loud and poorly selected as to when to play them. I have no issues with keys being used; I think they work brilliantly on the Magic Tour - Now I'm Here, A Kind of Magic, Tie Your Mother Down etc.. . all sound great with subtle piano playing. I can only think however that on The Works tour that Spike and the band were testing various things out, and the 'trial and error' stage was more 'error' than 'trial' , as everything was just far too synth based on the keys sounds on most songs. Roger's use of the electronic pads was poor in a lot of places – Another One Bites The Dust being a particular example where the songs just suffers for the whole song being played on them. Thankfully, that particular itch seems to have been scratched by 86 too! Having heard the remixes from the tour released as bonus tracks (It's A Hard Life and Rock In Rio Blues), there is massive potential to get a fantastic sounding live release from The Works period, so I haven't given up hope just yet! i was at gig in 80, 82, 84 and 86, the sound at Wembley in 84 was wonderful in the arena, way better than in 80 for example, but nowhere near as good as 86. In the arena the electronic gear sounded pretty rocky and dynamic, but by the time I saw the Rio vhs, it sounded horrible so not sure which was right? IMO the front of house mix was amazing in 84 and the whole band sounded much bigger than in 80. |
| tomchristie22 12.12.2014 05:49 |
cmsdrums wrote:True - I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement of it, I mainly meant the harmonies will consist of only three voices at any one time, without studio additions.tomchristie22 wrote:I'm sure any Hammersmith release will also have polished vocals; they may all be live (as in flown in from other shows as opposed to studio overdubs), but I reckon they will still 'tweak' them with autotune etc..Vocal harmony wrote: Is there any point to a Hammersmith 75 release.With Hammersmith, we're also guaranteed that the vocals are all live - this will be a nice contrast with the Rainbow, where the backing vocals have near-invariably been polished in the studio. |
| Vocal harmony 12.12.2014 09:33 |
I'm sorry my Hammersmith post has hijacked this thread somewhat. It was meant for another thread! Re comments about 84. On that tour they were using an updated and larger version of the Clair Brothers S4 rig which they had toured with since about 78 which may account for 84 being better than 1980 at the same venue. The 1986 shows used a 500,000 watts version of the 84 rig. As Trip says out doors if there's no wind to deal with the sound should be as near perfect as possible with no concrete or metal walls and ceiling for the sound to hit. |
| The Real Wizard 12.12.2014 11:41 |
cmsdrums wrote: I'm sure any Hammersmith release will also have polished vocals; they may all be live (as in flown in from other shows as opposed to studio overdubs), but I reckon they will still 'tweak' them with autotune etc..Bingo. And we know that's the case based on the 2009 BBC mix. That's probably what will end up on DVD. Hugely disappointing how they excessively autotuned Freddie Mercury. I wonder if Bri and Rog even know ? |
| The Real Wizard 12.12.2014 11:43 |
Togg wrote: i was at gig in 80, 82, 84 and 86, the sound at Wembley in 84 was wonderful in the arena, way better than in 80 for example, but nowhere near as good as 86. In the arena the electronic gear sounded pretty rocky and dynamic, but by the time I saw the Rio vhs, it sounded horrible so not sure which was right? IMO the front of house mix was amazing in 84 and the whole band sounded much bigger than in 80.Thanks for this first hand account. Extremely valuable. |
| cmsdrums 12.12.2014 12:43 |
Togg wrote: i just want to pick up on a couple of things here, Rogers chrome kit wasnt a chrome kit like Bonhams, it was still Maple covered in Chrome, just like all his other kits.I did make that distinction in an earlier post, but good to have it confirmed - cheers |
| ggo1 12.12.2014 12:51 |
I saw Queen in Brussels in 84, Great gig. One of the best I ever saw. Visually it was their best tour I think. It probably helped that I was right at the front of stage, just a few feet from Brian. I bought a double LP bootleg of the show at a record fair a few months later and it sounded a bit sh#t tbh. I don't think I played the boot more than a couple of times, didn't want to spoil a fantastic memory. Maybe I'll dig it out and see. |
| ggo1 12.12.2014 12:56 |
It was the 2nd Brussels show I went to btw, so no intrusive cameras at the performance. (I am on Brians Brixton Academy video, though I had to search really hard to find me even though I was right at the front) |
| Fireplace 12.12.2014 13:57 |
Saw them in Leiden in 1984, the sound was not great but then again it never is in these great indoor halls. The show was very energized,and full of enthousiasm and mutual warmth between band and audience. My favourite part was actually the synth improvisation, because it went so well with the light and the Metropolis stage-theme. The band were half forced to do '39 by the audience, but Freddie very cleverly let the fans do most of the work(s). |
| Mr.QueenFan 12.12.2014 15:56 |
Fireplace wrote: My favourite part was actually the synth improvisation, because it went so well with the light and the Metropolis stage-theme. .I think this is the most important thing ever said about this tour, that many people - included me - completly forgot. We are missing the visuals of the tour when we hear the boots or even when we watch concerts. But in the end, if those synth oriented songs and electronic drums were inspired by the stage theme - Metropolis, and lights - then it makes sense. Freddie in particular was a very visual person and always knew how to make everything work together. One thing i'm sure, i've always read great reviews about the 1984 shows, even when the bootlegs sounded like shit, and even when Freddie's voice was suffering that night. For some reason, people always left those shows very happy with what they've seen. And, we may like it or not, but a concert is made for those who buy the tickets, even if that means that afterwards those who watch it on TV think it's shit. And i agree with those who think that this 1984 tour had the best light show ever on a Queen tour. I loved the theme, and it made sense. What i have to say about those songs that the OP says were reharsed is that i don't miss some of them so much for one reason. Freddie's voice in 1984 was very tired and heavy. Those early Queen songs never sounded good in the 80's ( Killer Queen). It would be great for historic reasons, but at the time i think it was a good decision to not perform those songs, specially if they were going with those electronic drums, and synth oriented arrangements. Having said this, i think that Sweet Lady would sound great with Freddie's 84 voice. And "Life is Real" would sound fab with only a piano, but maybe they would have to drop LOML to include it, and that was a no-no. But right now, their pop songs were the ones puting food on the table, so i understand the change in sound. I'm glad they still played SCC in that tour, and could incorporate some bits of those songs in some concerts here and there. Great Topic! I think a VHS tape of this reharsals might exist, like the Wembley 86 one. Didn't Jim Beach use to record Freddie in the studio with a video camera,or is my mind playing tricks on me? Maybe one day something appears. ------------------------------------------------ edit: P.S - I meant to say Jim Hutton in the least paragraph, not Jim Beach |
| Sue Dounim 12.12.2014 21:33 |
Man it would've been nice to hear Need Your Loving Tonight make a full return. Put Out The Fire should have stayed and been played between Now I'm Here and Dragon Attack like in 82. Las Palabras de Amor would've been very interesting as well. |
| beemack74 12.12.2014 22:54 |
Excellent topic and very interesting . A great find indeed!! Would have loved to have heard "Las Palabras" live, I'm sure I've read somewhere that it was rehearsed during a sound check at one of the UK "Hot Space" gigs, but sadly wasn't included in any show. Now I know we've had these "fantasy set list" topics which are great, but I do wonder what gems from the '70s and early '80s may have returned to the set, had the story been different post 1986. Has the OP heard of ANYTHING rehearsed, but not performed, for the Magic tour?? |
| *goodco* 13.12.2014 00:20 |
Love these little tidbits. If it had been part of the set list, many would have had their wish of Freddie on LVs for 'Long Away'. Am envisioning it during the singalong, included on 'Live Killers', and a good 45 release. Cannot comment on The Works tour, since they didn't play here. Appreciate the eyewitness accounts, especially regarding the lighting rigs. Part of the show that blew away everyone else, but that cameramen forever screwed up capturing correctly. |
| cmsdrums 13.12.2014 03:08 |
There's some particularly good footage of the lighting rig on this video - certainly shows more that the official filmimg! check from 1hr 6m during the Hammer To Fall solo: link |
| LucasDiego 13.12.2014 14:06 |
For curiosity , who is to blame for the poor quality of the Rio show is TV Globo , had chance to buy better cameras to record the shows, but no, purchased with this horrible quality. |
| cmsdrums 14.12.2014 09:13 |
I agree that the Rio footage - both in quality of the actual visuals and the direction and edit, is very poor. Don't know if it's just me, but on the official Rio VHS, I spent years trying to figure out where the stage is when they have the numerous cutaways to a fixed camera crowd shot! |
| Vocal harmony 14.12.2014 09:42 |
cmsdrums wrote: Don't know if it's just me, but on the official Rio VHS, I spent years trying to figure out where the stage is when they have the numerous cutaways to a fixed camera crowd shot!About two miles away to the left. . . I think! |
| Togg 16.12.2014 08:37 |
cmsdrums wrote:IMO, the chrome makes no difference to the sound of the kit, it's a thin sheet glued at each end (I know because I've re-covered drums with it.) basically it's the same density as the black wrap or silver sparkle wrap used on his other drums, it has little to no effect on the resonance of the drum.Oscar J wrote:happy to.... Roger is famous for his 'big, open' drum sound, which in conjunction with his playing style has always been enhanced by his choice of drums - mostly until the last few years these were Ludwig Classic Maple drums. The kit he used on The Works tour (and Hot Space from meomory too)was still a Maple kit, but finished with a full ply of chrome all over. This produces a very distinct, and very different, sound, and one that (to me) doesn't sound great for Roger, or Queen. He also chose to leave the factory Ludwig drum heads on too - most drummers use better quality, branded heads to suit their sound, and it is odd that he didn't do this for that tour. Those Ludwig heads, coupled with the layer of chrome, seem to muffle the drums and not give much clear definition, attack or ambience - all trademarks of his sound. Having said all that, the kit may have sounded incredible ithe room, but it certainly was not captured very well on any of the recordings I have heard.cmsdrums wrote:This sounds interesting - could you explain a bit more what you mean?... (along with Roger's chrome Ludwig kit which did not suit their sound at all). The heads on the other hand may well account for his tone back then, however he used Ludwig heads throughout most of Queens time with Freddie, you can see them on the Silver Sparkle kit and the Black kits, maybe there were different thicknesses for the Chrome kit? I suspect what we are hearing is largely sound processing from the desk and editing work. someone obviously felt the sound seemed good like that and that was that. It is punchy, but it's not Rogers classic sound. Just listen to the drums on Do They Know It's Christmas, same guy as normal, same kit, same style.... doesn't sound remotely like Roger, his classic snare sound is lost and his normal 'feel' seems nowhere evident. Sometimes the engineer has as much to do with the tone as the musician. It;s a shame about MK, I hope they improve it one day |
| Mr.QueenFan 16.12.2014 10:18 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: I think a VHS tape of this reharsals might exist, like the Wembley 86 one. Didn't Jim Beach use to record Freddie in the studio with a video camera,or is my mind playing tricks on me? Maybe one day something appears.I meant to say Jim Hutton not Jim Beach :-) |
| 4 x Vision 20.12.2014 12:21 |
Interesting, but 1984 tour was totally forgettable. A couple would have been interesting to hear, PLG and Las Par, but the rest... meh. Band went through the motions, only a few concerts from that period worth listening too... Dublin, Tokyo, Brussels. Lucky we had '86 |
| BETA215 20.12.2014 12:49 |
Why people keep callïng Las Palabras as Las Parabras. That doesn't have any sense! In the official album is called Las Palabras, as in the concerts. The title is in Spanish, and in Spanish, Parabras isn't even a word. What's the problem with that? |
| The King Of Rhye 20.12.2014 12:49 |
I listen to the Milan 84 shows often, I think those are pretty good! And that 85 show where they did the 'My Fairy King/Black Queen' piano improv thing........... |
| Gregsynth 20.12.2014 14:45 |
The King Of Rhye wrote: I listen to the Milan 84 shows often, I think those are pretty good! And that 85 show where they did the 'My Fairy King/Black Queen' piano improv thing...........The Milan shows are good and Oaska 1985 is pretty underrated. Gotta check out Stuttgart 1984 - that's an amazing show with great quality! |
| musicland munich 20.12.2014 15:02 |
^ Yes,Stuttgart is providing one of the best "Hammer to fall" versions....maybe not THE( Live Aid comes to my mind) best but...it's a cracker for sure. |
| The King Of Rhye 20.12.2014 18:18 |
Recommendations taken, downloading Stuttgart now..........:D (if I keep up at this rate, I'll fill up another memory card pretty quick.....lol) |
| Gregsynth 20.12.2014 18:40 |
The King Of Rhye wrote: Recommendations taken, downloading Stuttgart now..........:D (if I keep up at this rate, I'll fill up another memory card pretty quick.....lol)The more memory cards you fill up, the better I like it! Another great concert (with great quality) from the Works Tour is the second night at Tokyo from 1985. Highly recommended. |
| The King Of Rhye 20.12.2014 18:57 |
Gregsynth wrote: The more memory cards you fill up, the better I like it! Another great concert (with great quality) from the Works Tour is the second night at Tokyo from 1985. Highly recommended.And here we go again.............getting quite a collection of Works shows here............heh............ Also grabbing the 5-11-85 show......remember I had that one quite a while ago................ |
| Nitroboy 20.12.2014 19:06 |
The King Of Rhye wrote:Gregsynth wrote: The more memory cards you fill up, the better I like it! Another great concert (with great quality) from the Works Tour is the second night at Tokyo from 1985. Highly recommended.And here we go again.............getting quite a collection of Works shows here............heh............ Also grabbing the 5-11-85 show......remember I had that one quite a while ago................ Make sure to check out my mix of the 5/11 radio broadcast synchronized to the video ;) |
| LucasDiego 20.12.2014 20:49 |
I'm curious to see all the magic tour reharsals, i believe in surprises of tracks that didn't appear in the tour, like it's a hard life, and, why not, princes of the universe |