QueenZone discussion #1409154

matt z wrote: Is there any particular song that made your spine cringe with glee or emotion upon first listen? If so, please share! Thanks.

Hoopsie wrote: Brian played the single most emotive, heartbreakingly beautiful note ever played on a guitar IMO. In "The Show Must Go On" the one mournful note after "another hero." I swear, if one sound could ever bring me to tears that would be it.

ludwigs wrote:

matt z wrote: Is there any particular song that made your spine cringe with glee or emotion upon first listen? If so, please share! Thanks.

It usually takes me a few listens before I 'like' a song etc but the first time I heard "Someone to Die" for I was blown away. Just the whole thing - amazing vocal by Jimmy Gnecco and also the brilliant intelligent guitar solo by BM. link

The Real Wizard wrote: Chief Mouse - since we're on that topic: I cannot possibly overstate the brilliance of these 15 seconds of guitar work, and the profound things it makes me feel, both as a musician and a person who experiences music.

Chief Mouse wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Chief Mouse - since we're on that topic: I cannot possibly overstate the brilliance of these 15 seconds of guitar work, and the profound things it makes me feel, both as a musician and a person who experiences music.

Exactly. I'm not a musician but I can definitely hear brilliance in his playing :-) I wish I could play a guitar but it's too hard to place my fingers correctly, and it probably needs hell of a lot of time to practise, so I just can't be bothered :P But I can imagine how good it feels to be able to play.

Oscar J wrote: There's a great little solo in this that I for some reason just recently came across: http://youtu.be/cufxjlHSNlw?t=1m54s He's my biggest influence as a guitarist. People say I sound more like Knopfler though. I'm happy with either. :)

The Real Wizard wrote: Playing the right music in the right company is about as much fun a guy can have with his pants on.

Mr.QueenFan wrote: The song is the live version of "Why don't we try again" premiered on VH1 in June 1998. And on top of it, Brian delivered great vocals for this song. . Here's a link: link Others may know this better than me, but i think this is the first time he used this tone live, and it seems to me that this is the same tone as "A Winter's Tale". But since in the AWT he played through the Deacy amp, i'm not sure if this is the same set up. Either way, it's very beautiful playing by the maestro.

cmsdrums wrote: Whilst on his solo work, the main guitar solo in 'On My Way Up' is some of his best of 'recent' years; lovely interplay between the different harmony parts - kinda 'Killer Queen-esque' in that regard.

matt z wrote: RE: TSMGO... where'd you guys get the clean isolated guitar parts? ....I hadn't heard that so clearly in the mix before.

Oscar J wrote:

cmsdrums wrote: Whilst on his solo work, the main guitar solo in 'On My Way Up' is some of his best of 'recent' years; lovely interplay between the different harmony parts - kinda 'Killer Queen-esque' in that regard.

Yeah! Cheesy song, but great solo.

Oscar J wrote: Let Me Live has a great solo, I still remember how I just adored it the first time i heard it.

Chief Mouse wrote:

matt z wrote: RE: TSMGO... where'd you guys get the clean isolated guitar parts? ....I hadn't heard that so clearly in the mix before.

Multitrack ;-)

Sheer Brass Neck wrote: i've often wondered which 'Brian' Queen fans like better. 'Raw' Brian (TYMD, Sweet Lady, Dragon Attack etc.) or 'Polished' Brian (BR, Killer Queen, Good Company etc.) He's almost like two players, the bluesy, let-it-fly guy, and the painstakingly meticulous take-three-hours-for-a-take guy.

The Real Wizard wrote: For me it's the polished Brian all the way. It's what separates him from the rest. No other rock guitarist has come close to creating a Good Company with a dixieland jazz band of guitars.

Oscar J wrote: Yeah, that's one of his signature phrases. He's one of those few guitarist who can make ordinary major scales sound awesome.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Sheer Brass Neck wrote: i've often wondered which 'Brian' Queen fans like better. 'Raw' Brian (TYMD, Sweet Lady, Dragon Attack etc.) or 'Polished' Brian (BR, Killer Queen, Good Company etc.) He's almost like two players, the bluesy, let-it-fly guy, and the painstakingly meticulous take-three-hours-for-a-take guy.

Good perspective. Never quite seen it like that, but of course you're right. For me it's the polished Brian all the way. It's what separates him from the rest. No other rock guitarist has come close to creating a Good Company with a dixieland jazz band of guitars.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: No other rock guitarist has come close to creating a Good Company with a dixieland jazz band of guitars.

Et tu, Bob? You're going to make me say it? That's not dixieland, it's music hall. 100% English, Formby-based. Queen never did anything even resembling jazz, not even that abomination called dixieland.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: If you're really going to make me go into a detailed analysis of the score to Good Company and why it's not jazz in any sense of the word, I will, but not right now. However, let me raise the following points: 1) The Temperance Seven were a novelty act - essentially musical comedy. They took some stock clichés from the rising dixieland movement, but that's pretty much it. Their music was, incidentally, NOT based on 1920s jazz, but on the 1917 recordings of the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, particularly the novelty-song "Tiger Rag", which they covered, a group whose music is universally deemed unrepresentative of authentic jazz at the time (a very small number of authentic artists from this period were recorded in the course of the '20s, Bunk Johnson and Sidney Bechet among them, and their music bears little if any resemblance to the ODJB). 2) In the 1950s, jazz was virtually unknown in Britain. This is in marked contrast to France, Belgium and Holland, where a significant number of jazz musicians settled after WWII. People in Britain (and, to a lesser extent, also in France, Belgium, Holland and the rest of Europe) were only familiarized with jazz through novelty songs and heavily popularized songs. This is not at all dissimilar to what happened with Calypso and, later, Reggae: what was marketed under those terms had little if anything to do with music of those genres as performed in their countries of origin. Here, for instance, is an already popularized but more or less authentic Calypso recording: link And this is what was marketed as Calypso: link 3) Related to the second point: what was marketed as "jazz" or "dixieland" depended on what the record companies thought their audience expected. That still happens - there can be little doubt that Jamie Cullum and Amy Winehouse had little if anything to do with jazz, but they were marketed as such nonetheless. But by far the most important point - Brian, like the other guys from Queen, was never particularly interested in jazz. He doesn't have any in-depth knowledge on the subject, so when he says that his song was inspired by Formby on the one hand and The Temperance Seven on the other, he is likely 100% truthful, and he might even believe that he was letting jazz inspire him, but erroneously so. I'm struggling to find a parable that is a little more modern and someone without an insane amount of detailed niche-information will get, as the definition of jazz gives vast amounts of trouble everywhere, but especially among non-jazz listening audiences. The best I can come up with right now is that rap is considered a fundamental aspect of hiphop. But, when you listen to Falco rapping Rock Me Amadeus, that doesn't mean it's suddenly a hip hop song. I'm sorry I can't think of a better way of making this point right now, but is this at least somewhat less confusing than before?

Sebastian wrote: The thing is, for fans, this is very much like a religious discussion. Most people think their own religion is the right one and everybody else is going to hell (or their equivalent). Similarly, most people think their favourite guitarist/band/singer/actor/drummer/etc is automatically the best one just because it happens to be their favourite. There's no point in arguing because they won't be persuaded to change their mind, and why would they? It's not like they're doing anyone else any harm.

brENsKi wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: For me it's the polished Brian all the way. It's what separates him from the rest. No other rock guitarist has come close to creating a Good Company with a dixieland jazz band of guitars.

accepted - but that was almost 40 years ago. and your comment dismisses lots of things other guitarist have done that Brian hasn't.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: If you're really going to make me go into a detailed analysis of the score to Good Company and why it's not jazz in any sense of the word, I will, but not right now. However, let me raise the following points: 1) The Temperance Seven were a novelty act - essentially musical comedy. They took some stock clichés from the rising dixieland movement, but that's pretty much it. Their music was, incidentally, NOT based on 1920s jazz, but on the 1917 recordings of the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, particularly the novelty-song "Tiger Rag", which they covered, a group whose music is universally deemed unrepresentative of authentic jazz at the time (a very small number of authentic artists from this period were recorded in the course of the '20s, Bunk Johnson and Sidney Bechet among them, and their music bears little if any resemblance to the ODJB). 2) In the 1950s, jazz was virtually unknown in Britain. This is in marked contrast to France, Belgium and Holland, where a significant number of jazz musicians settled after WWII. People in Britain (and, to a lesser extent, also in France, Belgium, Holland and the rest of Europe) were only familiarized with jazz through novelty songs and heavily popularized songs. This is not at all dissimilar to what happened with Calypso and, later, Reggae: what was marketed under those terms had little if anything to do with music of those genres as performed in their countries of origin. Here, for instance, is an already popularized but more or less authentic Calypso recording: link And this is what was marketed as Calypso: link 3) Related to the second point: what was marketed as "jazz" or "dixieland" depended on what the record companies thought their audience expected. That still happens - there can be little doubt that Jamie Cullum and Amy Winehouse had little if anything to do with jazz, but they were marketed as such nonetheless. But by far the most important point - Brian, like the other guys from Queen, was never particularly interested in jazz. He doesn't have any in-depth knowledge on the subject, so when he says that his song was inspired by Formby on the one hand and The Temperance Seven on the other, he is likely 100% truthful, and he might even believe that he was letting jazz inspire him, but erroneously so. I'm struggling to find a parable that is a little more modern and someone without an insane amount of detailed niche-information will get, as the definition of jazz gives vast amounts of trouble everywhere, but especially among non-jazz listening audiences. The best I can come up with right now is that rap is considered a fundamental aspect of hiphop. But, when you listen to Falco rapping Rock Me Amadeus, that doesn't mean it's suddenly a hip hop song. I'm sorry I can't think of a better way of making this point right now, but is this at least somewhat less confusing than before?

cmsdrums wrote:

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: If you're really going to make me go into a detailed analysis of the score to Good Company and why it's not jazz in any sense of the word, I will, but not right now. However, let me raise the following points: 1) The Temperance Seven were a novelty act - essentially musical comedy. They took some stock clichés from the rising dixieland movement, but that's pretty much it. Their music was, incidentally, NOT based on 1920s jazz, but on the 1917 recordings of the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, particularly the novelty-song "Tiger Rag", which they covered, a group whose music is universally deemed unrepresentative of authentic jazz at the time (a very small number of authentic artists from this period were recorded in the course of the '20s, Bunk Johnson and Sidney Bechet among them, and their music bears little if any resemblance to the ODJB). 2) In the 1950s, jazz was virtually unknown in Britain. This is in marked contrast to France, Belgium and Holland, where a significant number of jazz musicians settled after WWII. People in Britain (and, to a lesser extent, also in France, Belgium, Holland and the rest of Europe) were only familiarized with jazz through novelty songs and heavily popularized songs. This is not at all dissimilar to what happened with Calypso and, later, Reggae: what was marketed under those terms had little if anything to do with music of those genres as performed in their countries of origin. Here, for instance, is an already popularized but more or less authentic Calypso recording: link And this is what was marketed as Calypso: link 3) Related to the second point: what was marketed as "jazz" or "dixieland" depended on what the record companies thought their audience expected. That still happens - there can be little doubt that Jamie Cullum and Amy Winehouse had little if anything to do with jazz, but they were marketed as such nonetheless. But by far the most important point - Brian, like the other guys from Queen, was never particularly interested in jazz. He doesn't have any in-depth knowledge on the subject, so when he says that his song was inspired by Formby on the one hand and The Temperance Seven on the other, he is likely 100% truthful, and he might even believe that he was letting jazz inspire him, but erroneously so. I'm struggling to find a parable that is a little more modern and someone without an insane amount of detailed niche-information will get, as the definition of jazz gives vast amounts of trouble everywhere, but especially among non-jazz listening audiences. The best I can come up with right now is that rap is considered a fundamental aspect of hiphop. But, when you listen to Falco rapping Rock Me Amadeus, that doesn't mean it's suddenly a hip hop song. I'm sorry I can't think of a better way of making this point right now, but is this at least somewhat less confusing than before?

Interesting thoughts. If you were asked to, and had to fit them under one umbrella, what style/genre would you bracket Queen under? Heavy Rock? Rock? Pop? Easy Listening? You hit the nail on the head with the statement that essentially, most of our genre definitions/expectations are set by the record companies and lazy music media and stores. I can go into HMV and find Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Bryan Adams or Queen under 'rock', yet if I have seen Extreme and Poison filed under 'Metal', purely based on preconceived ideas of their image! The best was when a friend queried with a store as to why 'Dan Reed Network' were filed under 'hard rock', to be told "well they just supported Bon Jovi on tour"........ in the same year they also supported RUN DMC and UB40!!!

The Real Wizard wrote:

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: If you're really going to make me go into a detailed analysis of the score to Good Company and why it's not jazz in any sense of the word, I will, but not right now. However, let me raise the following points: 1) The Temperance Seven were a novelty act - essentially musical comedy. They took some stock clichés from the rising dixieland movement, but that's pretty much it. Their music was, incidentally, NOT based on 1920s jazz, but on the 1917 recordings of the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, particularly the novelty-song "Tiger Rag", which they covered, a group whose music is universally deemed unrepresentative of authentic jazz at the time (a very small number of authentic artists from this period were recorded in the course of the '20s, Bunk Johnson and Sidney Bechet among them, and their music bears little if any resemblance to the ODJB). 2) In the 1950s, jazz was virtually unknown in Britain. This is in marked contrast to France, Belgium and Holland, where a significant number of jazz musicians settled after WWII. People in Britain (and, to a lesser extent, also in France, Belgium, Holland and the rest of Europe) were only familiarized with jazz through novelty songs and heavily popularized songs. This is not at all dissimilar to what happened with Calypso and, later, Reggae: what was marketed under those terms had little if anything to do with music of those genres as performed in their countries of origin. Here, for instance, is an already popularized but more or less authentic Calypso recording: link And this is what was marketed as Calypso: link 3) Related to the second point: what was marketed as "jazz" or "dixieland" depended on what the record companies thought their audience expected. That still happens - there can be little doubt that Jamie Cullum and Amy Winehouse had little if anything to do with jazz, but they were marketed as such nonetheless. But by far the most important point - Brian, like the other guys from Queen, was never particularly interested in jazz. He doesn't have any in-depth knowledge on the subject, so when he says that his song was inspired by Formby on the one hand and The Temperance Seven on the other, he is likely 100% truthful, and he might even believe that he was letting jazz inspire him, but erroneously so. I'm struggling to find a parable that is a little more modern and someone without an insane amount of detailed niche-information will get, as the definition of jazz gives vast amounts of trouble everywhere, but especially among non-jazz listening audiences. The best I can come up with right now is that rap is considered a fundamental aspect of hiphop. But, when you listen to Falco rapping Rock Me Amadeus, that doesn't mean it's suddenly a hip hop song. I'm sorry I can't think of a better way of making this point right now, but is this at least somewhat less confusing than before?

Jesus. You know, you really should study history ;)

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: If we summarize/abstract this a little, I would go with progressive rock (1973-1979), pop (1980-1988), progressive rock (1989-1991). However, I don't think such classifications (nor the above album-based classifications) are anywhere near perfect