QueenZone discussion #1405281
Was "S. Flavius Mercurius" the inspiration for "Freddie Mercury"?
| Holly2003 01.11.2014 04:18 |
Led Zep's Jimmy Page played on Roy Harper’s 1971 album Stormcock and was credited as “S Flavius Mercurius”. Fred was a big Led Zep fan: I wonder if this is where Fred got the idea for his new name. Or did he come up with the name Freddie Mercury before 1971? |
| The King Of Rhye 01.11.2014 11:55 |
according to wikipedia, he started calling himself Mercury right around when Queen was first formed, in 1970..........(good article btw, never read that before!) I thought I read somewhere that he got the idea of the name from the actress Melina Mercouri.................. |
| mooghead 01.11.2014 15:19 |
According to Brian it was an adaptation of the lyric 'Mother Mercury'. But don't let the facts get in the way ;-) (There is also 'from Mars to Mercury' but that has never been mentioned.) |
| Thistle 01.11.2014 15:30 |
That's how I remember it too Moog. Where's the from Mars to Mercury thingy? (you didn't make that up, did you?) |
| mooghead 01.11.2014 15:32 |
It's from Liar... |
| mooghead 01.11.2014 15:33 |
I have sailed to sea From Mars to Mercury I have drunk the wine Time after time.... Come on! |
| Holly2003 01.11.2014 16:14 |
Mercury Mars Uranus. |
| Thistle 01.11.2014 16:54 |
I know that Moog, but Brian never mentioned that one as a possibility. I thought you may have been referring to a transcript or something. |
| mooghead 01.11.2014 17:34 |
"but that has never been mentioned" Sorry for not making myself clear...... :/ |
| The King Of Rhye 01.11.2014 17:35 |
my question is, where the heck did the "S Flavius Mercurius" thing come from?? |
| mooghead 01.11.2014 17:40 |
No fucking idea. Maybe from someone who wants people to look in their direction? |
| *goodco* 01.11.2014 17:47 |
George Harrison co-wrote the song "Badge" with Clapton, which was included on Cream's 1969 album, Goodbye. Harrison played rhythm guitar on the track, using the pseudonym "L'Angelo Misterioso" for contractual reasons. There are other instances of other artists doing the same, for that or other reasons. The Flavius Mercurius one is a new one for me, and pretty damn cool. |
| matt z 01.11.2014 19:48 |
It probably originates from him being pompous. Mercury (Hermes in Greek mythology) was the messenger of the gods. Hence. Pomp and a foreseen future with big britches to fill |
| Holly2003 02.11.2014 03:28 |
"according to wikipedia" I don't consider Wiki a credible source. However, if Fred/Farouk did start referring to himself as Freddie Mercury in 1970 then it obviously means it predated Jimmy Page's pseudonym (if 1971 was the first time Page used it, which seems likely). "I thought I read somewhere that he got the idea of the name from the actress Melina Mercouri" I also don't consider "I thought I read somewhere..." as a credible source :p "According to Brian it was an adaptation of the lyric 'Mother Mercury'. But don't let the facts get in the way" Source? Did Brian express this early in Queen's career, or lately? If lately, I wouldn't necessarily trust his memory. In any event, did he get this info from Fred or is he speculating? If earlier, it opens up a number of questions, but the main one is the same as above -- did Fred tell him this or is Brian making an assumption, or just guessing? This should be an easy one to sort out. There are many Queen fans here (obviously). If someone can provide a credible source for when Fred first started using the name Freddie Mercury and if it predates "S. Flavius Mercurius" then we can rule that out as the inspiration for his name. |
| tomchristie22 02.11.2014 03:35 |
I'm certain that Brian's 'Mother Mercury' comment has been something he said twice in interviews, both of which were in the 2000s. I haven't seen them recently, but I'm also fairly sure it came across more like speculation than something he actually knew Freddie took his name from. |
| Holly2003 02.11.2014 03:49 |
Also, let's not forget that My Fairy King, which has the "Mother Mercury" lyric, wasn't released until 1973. It may have been written as early as 1970, but there's no strong evidence to support that (only Barry Mitchell's memory), and, in any event, no evidence what the early lyrics were i.e. when the "Mother Mercury" lyric was first created. |
| thomasquinn 32989 02.11.2014 05:08 |
"S. Flavius Mercurius" is an obvious attempt at a roman name, with the S. being the abbreviation of the praenomen or first name (the romans only had about three dozen first names in total, so every name had its own abbreviation, with S. being "Spurius", a name with a confused etymology but according to tradition meaning "sine pater filius" ("son without [a] father", i.e. born out of wedlock) and in the context we are discussing, an obvious pun on "spurious"). Flavius would be the family name, or gens, lifted straight from a Roman imperial dynasty, the Flavian dynasty (didn't see that one coming, huh?), meaning Vespasian, Titus and Domitian, the guys who ruled Rome from AD 69 to AD 96. Mercurius is the cognomen, meaning hereditary nickname (like Gaius Julius Caesar - his first name was Gaius, his family name Julius and his cognomen Caesar, meaning "hairy", which was ironic as the man went bald in his twenties). It would translate as "of/from Mercury", the god of traders and, very importantly in this context, thiefs, cheats, frauds and conmen - i.e. anyone who is being professionally untruthful. All in all, I think it's a very appropriately chosen contractual pseudonym. I've heard few that were this imaginative, and many that fell far short (honorable mention to Bob Dylan for being listed as blues guitarist Blind Boy Grunt, though). |
| dysan 02.11.2014 05:42 |
Releath Biguth Dickuth! |
| *goodco* 02.11.2014 08:58 |
or is it 'Bigus Dicus'? (begins whistling.......) |
| The King Of Rhye 02.11.2014 11:29 |
Holly2003 wrote: "I thought I read somewhere that he got the idea of the name from the actress Melina Mercouri" I also don't consider "I thought I read somewhere..." as a credible source :pBecause I said so...........that's your credible source! LOL........... No, not really........not quite sure on that one........... |
| Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 02.11.2014 14:41 |
This : http://www.indepthinfo.com/mercury/messenger-god.shtml He choose the name Mercury as he was the messenger god... So a divine message. |
| Holly2003 04.11.2014 02:15 |
It's remarkable that on a Queen forum no one can provide definitive proof when Fred/Farouk started using the name Freddie Mercury. Surely there must be an original document -- a contract, flyer concert poster etc., from 1970? |
| Zamidoo 04.11.2014 05:04 |
I also thought it was inspired by Melina Mercouri ('Melina' was also Freddie's pseudonym, of course), but I have no evidence whatsoever (other than 'I'm sure I read that somewhere'). Melina Mercouri won several awards for Broadway and Musical performances 1968-1970, so it would fit with the time frame. Then again, he could have adopted the 'Melina' much later, based on the fact that her last name sounded like 'Mercury'. Here is a link to a website that has him appearing as 'Freddie Bulsara' as the lead singer of Sour Milk Sea until Spring, 1970 (these dates aren't gospel). link Most websites cite that he changed his name legally 'in or around 1970', but they're probably all quoting from the same source. Queen were definitely performing together by June 1970, as Smile, and this website names him as 'Freddie Mercury', although the names aren't mentioned on the flyer. /detail/live/1/queen-live-27-06-1970-city-hall-truro-uk.html Also, in the general listing, he is named as "Freddie Mercury' in every lineup for 1970. This is the same website, so it's obviously the same person listing all the information. /live/queen/early.html In other words: I don't know. 1971 does sound quite late, though. |
| Holly2003 25.10.2015 04:53 |
On another thread here Barry Mitchell said "He was Freddie Bulsara when I knew him" and Mitchell left Queen in Jan 1971. /queenzone/613483.html Incidentally, Mitchell mentions My Fairy King being "just the germ of an idea" when he was in Queen so presumably the lyrics about "Mother Mercury" hadn't yet been written. According to the Queen Chronology book, a setlist has survived from 1972 "written by Fred Bulsara". link I think it's at least possible therefore that Fred didn't change his name to Mercury until AFTER the Stormcock album was released and, being a huge Led Zep fan, he might have taken inspiration from "S. Flaviius Mercurius" for his name change (and his name change occurred later that most Queen fans and the "official" story suggests i.e. not in 1970 but possibly in 1972 or later) |
| Bike It 80 25.10.2015 07:44 |
Freddie was a Virgo and, in astrology, the planet Mercury is the "ruler" of this sign. I'm quite sure I read something about that somewhere but I can't remember where... Anyway, I don't know much about astrology, here's what our beloved Wikipedia has to say about it : link |
| noorie 25.10.2015 11:30 |
Here it is from Brian himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L36N4BKKir4 Starts around 14 seconds, so you may as well watch from the beginning! |
| Enchlore 25.10.2015 12:27 |
Bike It 80 wrote: Freddie was a Virgo and, in astrology, the planet Mercury is the "ruler" of this sign. I'm quite sure I read something about that somewhere but I can't remember where... Anyway, I don't know much about astrology, here's what our beloved Wikipedia has to say about it : linklink Here's a source about the astrology behind Mercury and Virgo. I'm sure you can find other sources saying this. |
| brENsKi 25.10.2015 14:22 |
*goodco* wrote: or is it 'Bigus Dicus'? (begins whistling.......)Biggus Dickus was never "in jail" he was Pilate's close friend. |
| The Real Wizard 25.10.2015 15:09 |
Holly2003 wrote: On another thread here Barry Mitchell said "He was Freddie Bulsara when I knew him" and Mitchell left Queen in Jan 1971. /queenzone/613483.html Incidentally, Mitchell mentions My Fairy King being "just the germ of an idea" when he was in Queen so presumably the lyrics about "Mother Mercury" hadn't yet been written. According to the Queen Chronology book, a setlist has survived from 1972 "written by Fred Bulsara". link I think it's at least possible therefore that Fred didn't change his name to Mercury until AFTER the Stormcock album was released and, being a huge Led Zep fan, he might have taken inspiration from "S. Flaviius Mercurius" for his name change (and his name change occurred later that most Queen fans and the "official" story suggests i.e. not in 1970 but possibly in 1972 or later)Excellent post. The timeline of the name change has never been clarified, so you may well be onto something here ! Mitchell's testimony is the best we have so far. |
| Bike It 80 25.10.2015 22:25 |
Just found my old copy of "Freddie Mercury : the definitive biography" by Lesley-Ann Jones. I don't know if it's a good source or not and I don't remember much about the book since I read it like 15 years ago but here's an interesting bit : "Many theories have been put forward over the years to why Freddie chose that name. But, according to Jim Jenkins, long-standing Queen fan and co-author of 'As It Began', 'Freddie told me himself, in 1975, that it was after the messenger of the gods. (...) People have said since, that it was after Mike Mercury in TV's 'Fireball XL5' but I can tell you for sure that it was nothing to do with him.' Although it is widely assumed that Freddie changed his name by Deed Poll around 1970, nothing exists on public record to prove this. Directed to the Public Records Office in Kew by London's Deed Poll Office, my investigations proved fruitless. Although they had found Elton John's, there was no entry for Freddie. But, as a spokeswoman told me, 'It has always been the case that only 10% of name changes are registered through the Supreme Court and appear on our records. (...) It is not a legal requirement, as you can call yourself whatever you like. Chances are that Freddie Mercury changed his name through his solicitor. When the documentation is drawn up, he'd keep half an the solicitor would keep half." So I still don't know where the Mercury/Virgo thing I mentioned earlier comes from but I couldn't know that if I didn't read it somewhere because I don't know much about astrology. My guess would be that Freddie knew the link between the planet and his zodiacal sign, and it could very well have been a "bonus" for him, even if it was not the main reason to why he called himself "Mercury" in the first place. Unfortunately, it doesn't offer any real clue regarding when he changed his name... |
| Holly2003 12.10.2016 10:03 |
Insert for 'Sounds of the Seventies' presented by John Peel (attached, courtesy of Queen Facebook page) 5th Feb 1973, Fred was still known as "Freddie Bulsara". |