| tomchristie22 31.10.2014 07:52 |
I'm referring to the 'montage' ending to Mother Love, glimpsing through Queen's music with audience applause, as well as Going Back, and ending on a baby crying. I can't say I like it at all - it's too self referential, as well as hamfisted. The song is sobering and moving - it speaks perfectly well for itself without the forced sentimentality of the 'retrospective' thing they seemed to be going for with the outro. Thoughts? Does it have some merit that I'm not giving it credit for? |
| angermair73 31.10.2014 09:10 |
Im thinking the same thing. A shame it doesnt have a proper endning. |
| antiden 31.10.2014 09:33 |
I always wondered, why didn't they put Mother Love prior to the end of the album. Its place on the album is not logical at all: the last Freddie's vocals - Brian sings the end - 'retrospective' montage - Going Back - baby crying - ... My Life Has Been Saved and the second half of the album... |
| Doga 31.10.2014 09:39 |
Wasn't ''A Winter's Tale'' the last song Freddie wrote? And besides, ''Mother Love'' is kinda sad while AWT is more positive, looking how beautiful the world is... that song is followed for a reprise of ''A Beautiful Day'' and the ascension to heavens. Is a very optimistic finale, kinda. I read somewhere they wanted MIH to have a positive vibe, putting the saddest song of the album at the end would defeat that purpose. |
| KumoNin 31.10.2014 10:25 |
AWT is the last one he wrote, but Mother Love is his last vocal performance. It was written mostly by Brian. |
| winterspelt 31.10.2014 10:45 |
I love the outro. I always felt it had a vague meaning. The first time I heard the song (when the album was released) I had the sensation it was some kind of to show that, at the end, he got the mother love Freddie needed (according to the lyrics, of course) things like "mama please, let me back inside" and the overall nostalgic feeling. The reason why they did the "retrospective" and the baby at the end could be for artistic reasons not related to the lyrics itself: It was Freddie's last recordings, it was a nice touch. There's another version with a different outro, which takes the really powerful (to my ears) guitar you can hear in the "out in the city in the cold world outside" part. I dont know if its official or if its a fan mix from MIH/Eye but it changes completely the feeling of the ending (to my ears) |
| MercurialFreddie 31.10.2014 11:53 |
It was definitely going all-retrospective, the same with It's a beautiful day (reprise - SSOR from Queen I). In my opinion it was their way of closing some era in their (BM's, JD's, RT's) life, like they knew that "living" Queen wouldn't be the same with Freddie, they won't record with him in a studio or sing with him live. It was their way of saying goodbye. As for Mother's love (piece of Wembley incl.) it could mean that that fans had that kind of love for Freddie, whatever happened they were there for him, singing with him at the stadium, no matter what he recorded (Hot Space...). Some weeks ago someone posted on Queenzone story of a Freddie's favourite fan who has even made a picture of Freddie and Mary and given to him. I guess that among all the crap the vultures from tabloids has put in him and those around him, there were some fans who supported Freddie. |
| k-m 31.10.2014 13:31 |
I actually like it. I know, you can say it's oversentimental, too direct, etc. But MIH is this kind of an album and I think it "works", for a lack of better expression. When you're emotional, going through some sort of loss or grief, I think you're likely to do things which might seem a bit pathetic, but that's the way it is and I think the ending is a reflection of this. Someone said you cannot examine MIH with a magnifying glass and an eye (Polish saying, sorry don't know English equivalent) and I'm in full agreement with it. |
| BETA215 31.10.2014 13:41 |
winterspelt wrote: I love the outro. I always felt it had a vague meaning. The first time I heard the song (when the album was released) I had the sensation it was some kind of to show that, at the end, he got the mother love Freddie needed (according to the lyrics, of course) things like "mama please, let me back inside" and the overall nostalgic feeling. The reason why they did the "retrospective" and the baby at the end could be for artistic reasons not related to the lyrics itself: It was Freddie's last recordings, it was a nice touch. There's another version with a different outro, which takes the really powerful (to my ears) guitar you can hear in the "out in the city in the cold world outside" part. I dont know if its official or if its a fan mix from MIH/Eye but it changes completely the feeling of the ending (to my ears) That isn't the David R. Fuller (:/) mix? |
| malicedoom 31.10.2014 13:45 |
The baby crying is the only thing I think they should have left out. It's too much. |
| Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira 31.10.2014 19:03 |
Awful outro. :/ |
| winterspelt 31.10.2014 19:25 |
BETA215 wrote: That isn't the David R. Fuller (:/) mix?Yes. I didnt knew it was his mix until now. I got it a lot of years ago while downloading some bootlegs. I had to browse youtube to know if you were talking about the same mix, lol |
| innuendo-n 31.10.2014 19:30 |
without the baby crying it would be perfect. one of my favourite songs. how i wish freddie had finished recording it. |
| FreddieCat 31.10.2014 19:50 |
Don't like it. The crying baby definitely represents Freddie's life beginnings. If only he had chosen different path, can he go back into his mother's womb to be reborn, to relieve is life. Those aren't Freddie' words, they are Brian's, but Freddie sings them. |
| tomchristie22 31.10.2014 21:05 |
winterspelt wrote:The alternate ending he used was taken from The Eye though, right?BETA215 wrote: That isn't the David R. Fuller (:/) mix?Yes. I didnt knew it was his mix until now. I got it a lot of years ago while downloading some bootlegs. I had to browse youtube to know if you were talking about the same mix, lol |
| LucasDiego 31.10.2014 21:31 |
I think that the song is nice in this way, the outro is so emotional, but i prefer that this track ends the album |
| winterspelt 01.11.2014 00:14 |
tomchristie22 wrote:That's right. The Eye version its instrumental... You just can hear how powerful the music is...winterspelt wrote:The alternate ending he used was taken from The Eye though, right?BETA215 wrote: That isn't the David R. Fuller (:/) mix?Yes. I didnt knew it was his mix until now. I got it a lot of years ago while downloading some bootlegs. I had to browse youtube to know if you were talking about the same mix, lol |
| matt z 01.11.2014 06:46 |
I actually love it.. sadly it let me experience the loss and "finality" of it though it may seemingly espouse a rejuvenation and rebirth. When MY LIFE HAS BEEN SAVED comes, I feel as a listener that I haven't lost a beat. It's really an artistic DEDICATION to the brother they left behind. It can't be explained any other way. The decision may have been made at the last hour Who knows. That's something to ask Brian on his soapbox about. After all, they did collectively agree to the final issue. The album was absolutely beautiful and stunning to me on a first listen in spite of having heard the Freddie tracks solo. It's a warm (indoors) album full of spirit story and solace. I think they did a BEAUTIFUL job of the album. That's why it ranks higher than even some of the 70's albums in my heart. It's beautiful. Imagine "You don't fool me" in any other order. .. And it won't work. Somehow they really worked their asses off or either had a beautiful time. THAT album is transcendent for me. From the cover to the content and back out again....Made In Heaven is phenomenal. Perfect. |
| matt z 01.11.2014 07:05 |
One thing that bothers me; For the dedicated is the fact that the Wikipedia page states merely that the completion of track 13 was interesting. It DOES NOT touch upon really expressed reasonings in length and content toward the then 20 some odd years of QUEEN as a band. I'm looking at the wizard or Inu.... someone fix this category up WITH QUOTES. .. THEY'RE ON THE NET. ... The last track of MIH was built in mind with regard to their career. Please someone. Fix the entry and allow any serious future viewer to understand the information subsequently shared regarding it's "purpose" Please. With a Fanship this great. You'd think that the Wikipedia articles would source you guys and articles before it sounded like random he said she said. For future reference. take screen shots! |
| thomasquinn 32989 01.11.2014 07:11 |
I always found the outro tasteful. But I like "Track 13" too. |
| The Real Wizard 02.11.2014 11:45 |
The MIH album is absolutely perfect in in every way. It is one of the best Queen albums ever made, circumstances notwithstanding. Its flow is flawless, and every single creative and artistic decision was made with love and care. I cannot possibly imagine how emotionally challenging this was for Bri, Rog and John to complete. I really have nothing to add here. Everything that needs to be said has been said. |
| brENsKi 02.11.2014 11:53 |
without the outro ML sounds like an incomplete demo. In fact - if you take it in the context of how the whole album was made the outro is the very essence of the finished song. |
| Oscar J 02.11.2014 12:44 |
The Real Wizard wrote: The MIH album is absolutely perfect in in every way.Really? While they sure pulled it of nicely production wise, I can't think of any real ace tracks from that album. I thought it was common consensus that it's one of their weaker albums songwriting-wise. |
| winterspelt 02.11.2014 15:13 |
Oscar J wrote:The process to make a song is very difficult, lyrics are changed, adjusted, discarded, etc...The Real Wizard wrote: The MIH album is absolutely perfect in in every way.Really? While they sure pulled it of nicely production wise, I can't think of any real ace tracks from that album. I thought it was common consensus that it's one of their weaker albums songwriting-wise. And then you have Queen that HAD to do SOMETHING as good as their older material with the few bits Freddie recorded, without changing the lyrics, without Freddie's input (1/4 of the band's input) without being able to change Freddie's parts to explore another ways to make every single song work. And yet, they managed to get an album which was difficult on every level. They had to work with the resources they had at hand. I wonder how many artists managed to release an album as good as MIH, under the circumstances Queen faced. |
| Holly2003 02.11.2014 15:50 |
Personally I prefer the 'Back in Black' approach rather than the sentimentality of MiH. |
| The Real Wizard 02.11.2014 19:01 |
Oscar J wrote:But that's just the thing - some of the best albums aren't "song" albums. That's why they're albums.The Real Wizard wrote: The MIH album is absolutely perfect in in every way.Really? While they sure pulled it of nicely production wise, I can't think of any real ace tracks from that album. I thought it was common consensus that it's one of their weaker albums songwriting-wise. That said - nearly every track on side B stands well on its own. |
| The Real Wizard 02.11.2014 19:02 |
Holly2003 wrote: Personally I prefer the 'Back in Black' approach rather than the sentimentality of MiH.Yeah, me too. And fortunately Queen did a few of those as well. |
| Oscar J 03.11.2014 04:43 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Back In Black was released right after Bon Scott's passing - so I think what Holly means is that he prefers the Back In Black approach for grieving over a former band member's death, over the sentimentality of MiH.Holly2003 wrote: Personally I prefer the 'Back in Black' approach rather than the sentimentality of MiH.Yeah, me too. And fortunately Queen did a few of those as well. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 03.11.2014 10:09 |
I never like the outro, and know some people who worked in the album who doesn't like it, but...I can't say his names!!!! It was a decission of the band (perhaps Brian? only specullation) and that's all. |
| Zamidoo 04.11.2014 04:24 |
I don't like it; it feels like someone is forcing us to associate the song with Freddie, rather than leaving it ambiguous and open to interpretation. It wasn't written by Freddie, and may not even have originally been written about Freddie (only Brian could answer that question), but the outro really lays the pathos on with a trowel. That's one of the things that makes me think it may have started out as a song about something else, or inspired by something else, and been adapted post-production, or during the recording process to apply to the circumstances at that time. When the singer of a band is dying during recording, it's pretty difficult for material not to 'become' about death on some level, and I think that there was an element of 'milking' that, post-production (and fair enough - it was an extraordinary event, and deserved to be milked!) Personally, I think the outro on Mother Love went too far. Cheesy rather than really bad taste, but still too far. For me. And I don't think it's such a great song, really. Without the overt links to Freddie dying, I don't think it would have been particularly memorable. Again, that's just me. |
| tomchristie22 04.11.2014 04:58 |
I agree with most of what you're saying, but I believe Mother Love was written with Freddie in mind, if indeed it was one of those things frantically written in the late sessions so that Freddie could get it sung while he still had enough strength. Either way, it certainly deals with facing one's own death, which isn't something Brian was writing about otherwise at the time, or ever really, so I think it had to have been at least partially inspired by Freddie's situation. |
| Zamidoo 04.11.2014 05:12 |
I may be biased because I don't like the song much. But was it written hurriedly at the time, or was it something Brian pulled out from the past? And would it be about death if it weren't for the Freddie link? I'm not saying it isn't - I don't know. |
| Costa86 04.11.2014 05:46 |
tomchristie22 wrote: I'm referring to the 'montage' ending to Mother Love, glimpsing through Queen's music with audience applause, as well as Going Back, and ending on a baby crying. I can't say I like it at all - it's too self referential, as well as hamfisted. The song is sobering and moving - it speaks perfectly well for itself without the forced sentimentality of the 'retrospective' thing they seemed to be going for with the outro. Thoughts? Does it have some merit that I'm not giving it credit for?I agree. To me the outro almost ruins the whole atmosphere created by the beautiful song and Freddie's spine-tingling vocals. The worst part is the baby crying which is such an anti-climax after an emotional song. It has the same effect as when you're looking at beautiful women - Charlize Theron, then onto Scarlett Johansson, then Jennifer Lawrence... then all of a sudden you're shown John Deacon. |
| tomchristie22 04.11.2014 05:57 |
Zamidoo wrote: I may be biased because I don't like the song much. But was it written hurriedly at the time, or was it something Brian pulled out from the past? And would it be about death if it weren't for the Freddie link? I'm not saying it isn't - I don't know. Well, the line 'I long for peace before I die' is certainly about being about to die. The entire last verse also seems to be very much about coming to terms with a painful death - whether this was a coincidence or if Brian wrote it about Freddie, it's hard to say; 'My body's aching, but I can't sleep My dreams are all the company I keep Got such a feeling as the sun goes down...' Of course, this part is only about death if you take the sun going down as a metaphor, but I certainly believe it's meant as one. |
| tomchristie22 04.11.2014 05:59 |
Costa86 wrote: It has the same effect as when you're looking at beautiful women - Charlize Theron, then onto Scarlett Johansson, then Jennifer Lawrence... then all of a sudden you're shown John Deacon.link He looks pretty beautiful to me ;) |
| Zamidoo 04.11.2014 06:47 |
tomchristie22 wrote:Yes, I agree it does sound that way in the last verse. The 'I long for peace before I die' could go either way - it could be about relief from general torment and suffering at an unspecified point in the future, or imminent death and relief from physical suffering. The last verse never fit with the first verses for me, which really sound like someone in mental torment rather than physical pain. The 'my woman gives me sweet mother love' line also sounds really inappropriate to Freddie's life, unless it's about Mary Austin (would Brian write a song about Freddie's feelings towards Mary?). As I posted once before on a topic here, the first verses sound like a depressed person to me... which is what made me think it might have been a song Brian pulled out from the past and adapted.Zamidoo wrote: I may be biased because I don't like the song much. But was it written hurriedly at the time, or was it something Brian pulled out from the past? And would it be about death if it weren't for the Freddie link? I'm not saying it isn't - I don't know.Well, the line 'I long for peace before I die' is certainly about being about to die. The entire last verse also seems to be very much about coming to terms with a painful death - whether this was a coincidence or if Brian wrote it about Freddie, it's hard to say; 'My body's aching, but I can't sleep My dreams are all the company I keep Got such a feeling as the sun goes down...' Of course, this part is only about death if you take the sun going down as a metaphor, but I certainly believe it's meant as one. Anyway, wherever the song came from, I agree that the montage at the end is heavy-handed and unnecessary. |
| beemack74 08.11.2014 08:58 |
I remember when I first heard Mother Love back in 1995, the whole song gave me chills...and the baby crying at the end gave me a big shiver down the spine. The hairs on the back of my neck stood up. So I found it very effective. I love Made In Heaven as an album. Heaven For Everyone, TMLWKY, A Winters Tale,You Don't Fool Me,Let Me Live...to me, these songs in particular could stand up well on any Queen album. And I strangely love the long piece of music at the end... |
| Viper 26.11.2014 04:05 |
IMHO, Mother Love is perfect the way it is! A blessing! |
| The King Of Rhye 27.11.2014 14:55 |
I kinda think the outro would have worked alot better if Mother Love was the last song on the album.................I like it tho.......andI still think MIH is a pretty good album.......definitely grew on me over the years (I really didnt like it when it first came out!).....MIH, YDFM, and LML are killer songs............thats another thing..............MIH (the song) doesnt seem to get a ton of love, but I just love it................ |
| Adam Baboolal 27.11.2014 15:38 |
winterspelt wrote:Holy moly..... This is the first time I'm seeing/hearing this mix and realising it contains elements of MY own personal Mother Love mix. I've seen my mix passed off as an official mix on youtube before, but David R Fuller has actually nicked parts of my mix and called it his. That's just wrong :(BETA215 wrote: That isn't the David R. Fuller (:/) mix?Yes. I didnt knew it was his mix until now. I got it a lot of years ago while downloading some bootlegs. I had to browse youtube to know if you were talking about the same mix, lol Here's my 2005 original - link And here's Fullers' - link I'm sorry, but in a thread like this, I can't let this pass. At least now I can post this message to inform others about the truth/origin of the outro. It was originally created for someone on Queenzone who didn't like the official ending. So, I put together something new and original. A lot of elements for that ending are completely original, e.g. my brothers' cymbals, processed drums, etc. etc. You can find out more details from the 2005 mix thread I've posted above. Hopefully, this sets things straight. |
