| una999 16.09.2014 12:13 |
When I first heard Queen, it was their Greatest Hits album, sometime in the late 1990's (before widespread internet access). Anyway it always sounded to me as if there were more than one main singer with the band, because Freddie's voice always sounded different. Freddie's voice changed in different periods, really with all the different albums...is it normal or unusual that a vocalists voice would change like this? (e.g. 74 sounding Freddie, different to Jazz era etc.) To put in context, take Roger or Brian, their voices always sounded pretty much the same over the years. Would be interested in hearing people's view on this. p.s. Great King Rat always surprised me that it's such a deep sounding Freddie for early 70's. |
| Chief Mouse 16.09.2014 12:39 |
Yeah, his voice did change. Partly due to aging, smoking, different singing technique (?), weight loss / gain and AIDS (I assume). I'd sort his studio voice in periods like this - 1973 - 1975 the early years tender tone 1976 - 1979 similar but more high notes, grit 1980 - 1982 more powerful, stronger voice, even more high notes, slightly lower voice 1984 - 1988 extremely powerful voice, more grit, even lower voice 1989 - 1991 thinner voice, especially on the album Innuendo, sounds slightly weaker but nails the high notes as great as ever At least that's the picture in my head. |
| Oscar J 16.09.2014 13:04 |
I like his voice up to ˜ 1980, then I start liking it again from 1989 onwards. One can only speculate why his voice got so hoarse and gritty at times there in the mid 80's. Probably partying and smoking, along with the macho attitude he adopted. |
| BradMay 17.09.2014 11:54 |
The grit was due to a bad technique and smoking of course. His voice became thinner because of the decease, i mean, weightloss means less mass, which means that the voice isn't going to be as rich as when you're a bit bulky. And of course loss of breath control ! He however learned techniques as is apearant on Barcelona! |
| RafaelS 18.09.2014 05:28 |
Always the same kind of threads. |
| Zamidoo 19.09.2014 07:08 |
I agree with Oscar J, I like his voice a lot after 1989 onwards, too (I still like it 1980-89, but it's different). I have a slightly different take on the reason for the change... I think that in 1989, despite being in such poor health, he didn't chain smoke any more and didn't tour, so didn't batter his vocal cords like in the mid 80s, and that's the main reason for the sound changing. He over-sang a lot at his 'peak', and paid for it vocally (I mean always trying to produce a bigger sound than your body/voice will allow, which is how he damaged his voice, and got the vocal nodules... along with the smoking and general partying etc.). Despite being physically sick after 1989, ironically he was probably taking better care of himself and his voice than he had for the previous decade, and I think his voice is sweeter (I can hear that it's 'thinner' than a few years previously, but I like it - and he starts hitting the high notes again, as others have mentioned). When you over-sing in the middle part of your voice, as he frequently did during his career, you can lose the top register, which he often did, especially on tour. Think of operatic tenors and the classic 'cracking the high notes'. It's the same thing. Give too much in the middle, you really pay for it at the top. Belting out all those anthems to stadium audiences just took its toll in the mid 80s. |
| Sheldon 19.09.2014 15:39 |
It's fascinating to compare his vocals on I Want it All (listen to the a capella version) to anything on the first albums. Even on We Are the Champions (1977) he sounds so weak compared to the mid- to late 80s. |
| Oscar J 19.09.2014 15:58 |
Weak? No. |
| Sheldon 19.09.2014 16:57 |
In my opinion, yes. But I could change weak => unpowerful. The refrains scream for a Magic Tour voice and all they get is a young guy with a nice voice trying as much as he can, only to realise that he needs to wait for almost 10 years to deliver those lines how they were meant to be delivered. |
| AssDudeRule 20.09.2014 04:31 |
BradMay wrote: The grit was due to a bad technique and smoking of course. His voice became thinner because of the decease, i mean, weightloss means less mass, which means that the voice isn't going to be as rich as when you're a bit bulky. And of course loss of breath control ! He however learned techniques as is apearant on Barcelona!Im a bit confused on what you mean by "bad technique" . The smoking factor, agreed totally. But, how can it be he used a bad tech? Im not saying this as glorification for Freddie, but I just don't know how he would consciously use bad techniques. |
| AssDudeRule 20.09.2014 04:33 |
Chief Mouse wrote: Yeah, his voice did change. Partly due to aging, smoking, different singing technique (?), weight loss / gain and AIDS (I assume). I'd sort his studio voice in periods like this - 1973 - 1975 the early years tender tone 1976 - 1979 similar but more high notes, grit 1980 - 1982 more powerful, stronger voice, even more high notes, slightly lower voice 1984 - 1988 extremely powerful voice, more grit, even lower voice 1989 - 1991 thinner voice, especially on the album Innuendo, sounds slightly weaker but nails the high notes as great as ever At least that's the picture in my head.Ohh... Can I also add, that weight and body tone, body mass can also change things. The highlights you mentioned all seem correct, Freddie was skinnier in is early yes, not the mucho man he was later in life. |
| Day dop 20.09.2014 08:31 |
In the studio, 84-88 was Freddie's best period vocally. Live, I'd say it was 80-82. |
| Oscar J 20.09.2014 10:44 |
I really don't like the shouty, strained sounding vocals in his mid 80's studio vocals. It's like he always wore a buttplug while singing during those years. |
| ploughman 21.09.2014 05:14 |
The voice on Innuendo album is always been an enigma to me. The songs were recorded maybe between 1988-1990 and the voice changes quite a bit between them. I think his thinner voice is heard especially on Show must Go on, Days of Our Lives, I Cant Live with You, Slightly Mad and Headlong. The powerfull one is of course on All gods People which was done already during Miracle-period (?) and when I listen of Dont Try So Hard and the tile track, i dont feel the voice is that weak. There is still lots of power and force behind it. So his voice changed the most during 1990. The same ailing voice is still heard on Made in Heaven tracks that were done during 1991. |
| Chief Mouse 21.09.2014 05:26 |
ploughman wrote: The voice on Innuendo album is always been an enigma to me. The songs were recorded maybe between 1988-1990 and the voice changes quite a bit between them. I think his thinner voice is heard especially on Show must Go on, Days of Our Lives, I Cant Live with You, Slightly Mad and Headlong. The powerfull one is of course on All gods People which was done already during Miracle-period (?) and when I listen of Dont Try So Hard and the tile track, i dont feel the voice is that weak. There is still lots of power and force behind it. So his voice changed the most during 1990. The same ailing voice is still heard on Made in Heaven tracks that were done during 1991. You forgot The Hitman, he sounds really thin in that one. In The Show Must Go On he really seemed to try pushing it and it does sound powerful, although I can't even imagine him singing that with Barcelona voice. All God's People parts were recorded in 1987 I think. There is a part "then I, then I, then I" which sounds thin, probably recorded around 1990. And yeah, Don't Try So Hard and Innuendo still have The Miracle voice. I think recorded in early 1989 (?). |
| madprofessorus 21.09.2014 07:13 |
Most of the great singers do have changes in their voices,I believe if you have a good voice and be able to sing,then the voice does evolve differently than on most people who have what we could say "ordinary voice".Chief Mouse really gave a good time schedule of Freddie's voice evolution over the years till the end.I was thinking that we won't have the chance to hear how Freddie's voice would sound as he would grow older,and gradually he would lose the ease on high notes,how he would sound,more crunchy like his voice on The Miracle? I wonder if he would continue to record if he knew his voice wouldn't be like in his young ages.But since Bowie did record in his near 70s,why not Freddie! |
| Day dop 21.09.2014 16:01 |
Sheldon wrote: It's fascinating to compare his vocals on I Want it All (listen to the a capella version) to anything on the first albums. Even on We Are the Champions (1977) he sounds so weak compared to the mid- to late 80s.I wouldn't use the term weak - Freddie's vocals were never weak on any album.... but if you're going to compare any later vocal to his earlier work as an example of a huge difference, I'd say Gimme the Prize would be a better example than I Want It All. |
| Day dop 21.09.2014 16:08 |
Anyone remember the comparison between the years on Rare Live? I think, if I recall, the tune was Keep yourself Alive, and it went back and forth from the early 70s to Live In Rio (which sounded terrible). I didn't like Freddie's voice on the Rio concert compared to how he usually sounded at all. |
| brENsKi 21.09.2014 16:09 |
Chief Mouse wrote: Yeah, his voice did change. Partly due to aging, smoking, different singing technique (?), weight loss / gain and AIDS (I assume). I'd sort his studio voice in periods like this - 1973 - 1975 the early years tender tone 1976 - 1979 similar but more high notes, grit 1980 - 1982 more powerful, stronger voice, even more high notes, slightly lower voice 1984 - 1988 extremely powerful voice, more grit, even lower voice 1989 - 1991 thinner voice, especially on the album Innuendo, sounds slightly weaker but nails the high notes as great as ever At least that's the picture in my head.biggest noticeable change to his voice tho? 1991-2014 barely audible to the point of non-existent |
| The King Of Rhye 21.09.2014 16:17 |
Interesting stuff....................I think you can say similar things about a lot of singers or bands that have been around for some time........like my 2nd favorite band, Rush........theres a perfect example for you! Geddy just does NOT hit the high notes now like he did back in the mid 70s.....(but they still rock, and their last album was their best in, uh......30 years!!!............seriously, anyone that likes Rush here and hasnt heard Clockwork Angels, check it out! But I digress....) I'd even say the same thing about Metallica (3rd favorite band!).........maybe not to the same degree as Geddy Lee, but Hetfield sounds different these days than he did in the mid and late 80s..........actually I think he sounds better nowadays.........kinda deeper and uh, growlier....... Also, I think Brian improved over the years.....he sounds better on Another World than on stuff like Some Day One Day........... Yet another thing..............I've noticed from listening to so many Queen bootlegs over the years...........as has been said here in other threads.....Freddie was not the most consistent singer live....he had his off nights for whatever reason......I could say the same thing about Paul (heard a bunch of Q+PR bootlegs too!).....and I have heard a good amount of Queen + Adam bootlegs.....dare I say, I havent heard one where he had a off night yet! Though he does sound a bit better in '14 as opposed to '12.......... |
| PrimeJiveUSA 21.09.2014 22:08 |
I agree with Oscar J that Freddie's voice was best up to 1980(I'd actually extend it to '82) with the worst years being during The Works and A Kind Of Magic. It becomes better on The Miracle and *almost* back to his younger sound on Innuendo. |
| miraclesteinway 26.09.2014 05:10 |
Everyone's voice changes with time, and tends to take on a lower range at least, except if there are nodules and it just sounds hoarse. My theory is: early Queen recordings, '70 - '73, he didn't tour much, and probably hadn't had as much practice in the development of the sound. It was a beautiful silvery sound, but it wasn't really powerful. You can hear some exceptions to that on Liar, for instance, where you can hear some of that '80s growl coming through. '74-'76, more touring, more smoking, not quite so hedonistic yet but getting there. More practice, more experience, the voice is getting better in some ways but also things are a little more precarious. '77-'82 saw the biggest changes, with his hedonistic lifestyle and relentless touring. Drugs and drink really put pressure on the chords, not to mention the smoking. The biggest effects are probably from the touring though - note the Saturday Night Live performance - the actual tone of the notes he can manage is good, but anything above a D just doesn't happen. That's simply over use I think in the 1980s he started to have some coaching, and he may have denied it but there's a definite change in the way he breathes. You can almost hear the muscle pushing the air through the vocal folds by him 'bagpiping' which is where a singer will engage the back muscles. I think he's using much more solid technique here, but the years of touring before, and the schedule probably doesn't allow him to develop his technique properly. The tours of '84 through '86 have some wonderful moments, but he's not always at his peak. Things change around '85 '86 at least in the studio and I think it's for several reasons: 1. He meets Jim Hutton and the relentless partying comes to an end 2. He works with the cast of time and learns some vocal coaching - now it could be that he just went into the studio and didn't meet any of them, but from the sound of his voice on the two tracks on time, it sounds like there was someone giving him some direction. You bet your life that if this is the case it will be strongly denies though! 3. I'm thinking they didn't tour as much by 1986 and the Magic album was recorded at a time when they weren't on the road. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that. By the mid to late 1980s, he'd met Monstserrat Caballe, and I am sure she was giving him some coaching - in fact he said that she taught him some things. My personal guess is that these were vocal technique things, and the introduction of these techniques to his voice, minus the giving up of the drinking, smoking, partying, late nights, would have allowed a lot of the previous damage to heal. The HIV/AIDS probably wouldn't have had all that much of an effect on the voice, with the biggest effect being the loss of muscle mass meaning he'd lose a bit of power, but the tone of his voice in the 1989-1991 period actually got better, and some of his finest vocals are from that period. |
| Zamidoo 26.09.2014 06:42 |
miraclesteinway wrote: By the mid to late 1980s, he'd met Monstserrat Caballe, and I am sure she was giving him some coaching - in fact he said that she taught him some things. My personal guess is that these were vocal technique things, and the introduction of these techniques to his voice, minus the giving up of the drinking, smoking, partying, late nights, would have allowed a lot of the previous damage to heal. The HIV/AIDS probably wouldn't have had all that much of an effect on the voice, with the biggest effect being the loss of muscle mass meaning he'd lose a bit of power, but the tone of his voice in the 1989-1991 period actually got better, and some of his finest vocals are from that period.I very much agree... I think that the loss of muscle mass had far less of a negative effect on his voice than the smoking and partying did pre-1986/7. You can even hear that his speaking voice became higher when he stopped chain-smoking. It wasn't superhuman that he was able to hit the high notes again in the last few years, or that his tone was clearer - as you say, he was just singing better. Being older, not over-singing on tour, having worked with Caballe, and most importantly not drinking and smoking brought back his lighter, clear tone (although you can still hear that damage was done - he has the rasp from the nodules on some notes that wasn't there in the 70s/very early 80s). I don't think that his voice is 'thin' on innuendo, for example, it's more like his voice on the earlier recordings. I have always loved his singing on 'The Show Must Go On' for this reason. |