BradMay 22.08.2014 09:40 |
link I was listening to keep yourself alive from the new Rainbow release and around 1:16 when Freddie sings "All you people, keep yourself alive" you can hear autotune, not only there but throughout the whole song. It's also noticable on One Vision from the Friday wembley gig. link Listen to "There's only one direction"at 3:31... Autotune.. I'm terribly sorry for saying this, but i don't mind a few overdubs here and there in the harmonies or a guitar part, but you just don't under any circumstances put AUTO-TUNE or PITCH CORRECTION (Melodyne for example) on vocals. It takes away all the character. Listen to Simon And Garfunkel from MSG in 2009, they sound like robots, listen to Good Evening New York City from Paul McCartney, during Drive My Car the autotune even malfunctions slightly.... It's horrible. I'd rather listen to a dvd were the vocals are untouched and out of tune with the harmonies or whatever than to a dvd were the vocals are robotic because of the society nowadays who wants everything perfect. Like Glen Campbell said. "Remember folks, if you do it perfect one time they want it perfect everytime" |
Oscar J 22.08.2014 11:11 |
The new release sounds pitch corrected throughout. I don't mind it if it's done in a non-obvious way (it's quite easy today to pitch correct while keeping the intonation and vibrato, I've been doing it myself). But there are spots on the Rainbow preview samples where it's been overdone. That last quote is brilliant by the way. |
BradMay 22.08.2014 11:19 |
Yeah, i work with melodyne myself in the studio sometimes, and you can do it without it being noticable, this is just terrible.... It destroys the listening experience for me to be honest.. The last quote is fantastic yeah, too bad the guy has Alzheimers. |
pittrek 22.08.2014 11:23 |
Funny, I wanted to show KYA as a proof that there are no overdubs :-) His voice sounds like on the audience recordings from 1974 |
mooghead 22.08.2014 11:26 |
As I have said before, I will be buying the bog standard cheapest release. What is the point of buying a live show when what you hear is nothing like what was actually performed on the night? Its worse than a tribute band. |
BradMay 22.08.2014 11:27 |
Nope, it doesn't.. if you think it does then i think that you're kinda well, tone deaf really... I had this discussion earlier on about the Friday gig from Wembley, he said that it sounds like the audience version as well, but i can really here the autotune taking a strole with it :p |
Gregsynth 22.08.2014 12:27 |
There's always gonna be corrections on official releases - this is nothing new. Sometimes it's even used in places where it really didn't need to be there. There was this White Queen audio with pitch-correction all over it (from a Hammy 1975 source), and I checked the raw audio - Freddie didn't even sound THAT off. If it's like 5-10 cents off a note it's barely noticeable. I'd rather hear the raw audio. |
Nitroboy 22.08.2014 13:05 |
I don't hear any autotune on that particular line, if you're talking about the very tone of his voice, well, that's how he sounded back then |
The Real Wizard 22.08.2014 13:10 |
BradMay wrote: It's also noticable on One Vision from the Friday wembley gig. link Listen to "There's only one direction"at 3:31... Autotune..I just compared it to the audience tape, and you're bang on. Freddie didn't hit the note perfectly, but it still doesn't sound bad. It sounds real and human. I wonder if Brian and Roger are aware that they're paying people to autotune Freddie Mercury.. |
Gregsynth 22.08.2014 13:15 |
The Real Wizard wrote:BradMay wrote: It's also noticable on One Vision from the Friday wembley gig. link Listen to "There's only one direction"at 3:31... Autotune..I just compared it to the audience tape, and you're bang on. Freddie didn't hit the note perfectly, but it still doesn't sound bad. It sounds real and human. I wonder if Brian and Roger are aware that they're paying people to autotune Freddie Mercury.. Yeah, I mean c'mon, the original note wasn't even that off to being with. |
inu-liger 22.08.2014 13:31 |
Gregsynth wrote: There was this White Queen audio with pitch-correction all over it (from a Hammy 1975 source), and I checked the raw audio - Freddie didn't even sound THAT off. If it's like 5-10 cents off a note it's barely noticeable. I'd rather hear the raw audio.That, and the drum fill leading into the guitar solo very inexplicably replaces the snare drum with toms. Which begs the question: Just, WHHHHHYYYYYY?? |
inu-liger 22.08.2014 13:31 |
The Real Wizard wrote: I wonder if Brian and Roger are aware that they're paying people to autotune Freddie Mercury..Probably the same people that convinced them 4.0 Quad surround is better than 5.1 true surround... |
jondickens1 22.08.2014 13:32 |
The worst case of autotune I've heard on the new Rainbow forthcoming release is on The Fairy FMS. Listen to the vocals "soldier, sailor, tinker Taylor, ploughboy, waiting to hear the sound".It's so bad it's laughable! Also listen to Radio ga ga on Hungarian Rhapsody on the vocal line of "who JUST don't know and just don't care". Not quite as bad in this case tho. Also the word "locality" in Fat bottomed girls live at the bowl. In the latter two cases I'm in favour of the pitch correction. But for FMS on the new Rainbow release it's FAR to obvious. |
QueenFan76 22.08.2014 13:49 |
As long as he doesn't sound like a fucking robot or Stephen Hawking, which is what most artists these days sound like... I am ok with minor uses of it. |
cmsdrums 22.08.2014 13:52 |
The Real Wizard wrote:That's a very good question. We've always previously been sold the story that with any releases, everything is put before Brian and Roger (and John?) and they decide what goes in the final product. However, having listened to Greg Brooks' recent podcast he states that he pulls everything together and then puts it before Justin and Kris on their audio team; they then whittle this down and discard a lot of material before before a short list even gets to the band. I wonder if this happens with stuff like The Rainbow, and they 'touch up' the audio before the band even hears it and they then just think "aren't we great" without realising the extremes of the alterations being made? Alternatively it could be completely driven by the band and they are the ones insisting that everything it tweaked and manipulated.BradMay wrote: It's also noticable on One Vision from the Friday wembley gig. link Listen to "There's only one direction"at 3:31... Autotune..I wonder if Brian and Roger are aware that they're paying people to autotune Freddie Mercury.. I'm thinking of composing an email for Brian's soapbox....! |
pittrek 22.08.2014 14:00 |
Is "locality" autotuned? Really? I always thought it's copied & pasted from a studio take |
Ron 22.08.2014 14:30 |
I actually don't hear a thing with regards to autotune! I must be blessed :) |
pittrek 22.08.2014 14:53 |
Ron wrote: I actually don't hear a thing with regards to autotune! I must be blessed :)Welcome to the club :-) |
andyb1968 22.08.2014 15:21 |
If its live, leave it alone ffs, you want to feel as if you're there, if you want perfection just listen to the albums ! |
BradMay 22.08.2014 16:46 |
pittrek wrote: Is "locality" autotuned? Really? I always thought it's copied & pasted from a studio takeLocality wasn't autotuned, because that would make Freddie sound like an old african woman instantly (Because of formants, and the fact that you can't alter 1 single vocal note more than -2 semitones before losing a lot of the formant) That one was copy/pasted. |
BradMay 22.08.2014 16:49 |
I also wrote it in the comment section on YouTube and i kid you not, one of the people said " MasterHappychipmunk, autotune didn't even exists back then, dumbass. " How can people be so dumb.. So i said: "Bradley Van Dijk It's not "harmony vocal" i'm a singer myself although not a professional one, and this is autotune, and for the guy who said "Autotune didn't even exist back then" well, i know that, Antares is available since '97 but Queen does occasionally use Autotune/pitch corrections post-production of course, and you can (throughout the song) hear the robotic character of the autotune on Freddie's voice, they didn't use it on Roger's voice because he's just singing the harmony part. If you use autotune on BOTH voices you'll get a flanger effect, and an even more obvious effect since they're both pitch perfect. It's overdubbed and corrected, and i'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything, really, but this is a fact, because anyone who has a slight knowledge of music knows how autotune CAN sound, it can be very subtle, but éven with it's subtleness it still gets rid of the character of the vocals.?" Another guy responded with "It's not autotune it's called Vocal Harmony" i laughed so hard :') |
Bad Seed 23.08.2014 01:49 |
I watched the rough uncut show at the London exhibition a few years back and have mentioned numerous times on here that I very much doubted this show would ever see a release UNLESS heavily overdubbed or pitch corrected (freddie). For me it really needs the autotune as the lead vocal from the night was pretty hard to listen to, I stood and cringed through most of it. For me this new version is far more pleasing on the ears. |
cmsdrums 23.08.2014 03:26 |
Bad Seed wrote: I watched the rough uncut show at the London exhibition a few years back and have mentioned numerous times on here that I very much doubted this show would ever see a release UNLESS heavily overdubbed or pitch corrected (freddie). For me it really needs the autotune as the lead vocal from the night was pretty hard to listen to, I stood and cringed through most of it. For me this new version is far more pleasing on the ears.I recall your original post about that. It does then beg the question as to why they chose to release it at all if it needed such major work - Hammersmith 79 for example would be far better vocally. I suppose it possibly answers the question as to why they might have ditched the idea of releasing it back in '74 after they listened back to it?!? |
Bohardy 23.08.2014 04:47 |
BradMay wrote: link I was listening to keep yourself alive from the new Rainbow release and around 1:16 when Freddie sings "All you people, keep yourself alive" you can hear autotune, not only there but throughout the whole song. It's also noticable on One Vision from the Friday wembley gig. link Listen to "There's only one direction"at 3:31... Autotune.. I'm terribly sorry for saying this, but i don't mind a few overdubs here and there in the harmonies or a guitar part, but you just don't under any circumstances put AUTO-TUNE or PITCH CORRECTION (Melodyne for example) on vocals. It takes away all the character. Listen to Simon And Garfunkel from MSG in 2009, they sound like robots, listen to Good Evening New York City from Paul McCartney, during Drive My Car the autotune even malfunctions slightly.... It's horrible. I'd rather listen to a dvd were the vocals are untouched and out of tune with the harmonies or whatever than to a dvd were the vocals are robotic because of the society nowadays who wants everything perfect. Like Glen Campbell said. "Remember folks, if you do it perfect one time they want it perfect everytime"Have just listened to Drive My Car and the S&G MSG stuff and see what you're saying. Christ, it's awful. Who wants to hear that? Who thinks it sounds good? Some people seriously need to get their ears fixed. The Rainbow stuff isn't so noticeable for me, thankfully, but it is there, no doubt. |
cmsdrums 23.08.2014 05:15 |
I'm the opposite of BradMay, in that if they really must muck about with it at all, then a slight autotune on a vocal that was almost right is bearable (if well done), whereas adding harmonies or extra guitar that simply weren't in the show on the night really is, to me, a misrepresentation. I suppose I can live with patching up parts by flying in the same parts from another show as at least they are still live, but augmenting harmonies with extra parts so you have four or five parts on the track when only three of then were singing is just wrong. |
pittrek 23.08.2014 05:31 |
I have now listed to "All you people keep yourself alive" about 10 times in a row and I STILL can't find ANY trace of autotune. Could you guys tell me what should I be concentrating on? |
Barry Durex 23.08.2014 07:49 |
^ Why are you desperately trying to hear for something negative? It sounds good to me as well, so just enjoy it. |
pittrek 23.08.2014 08:14 |
I'm not. I'm just trying to understand what the ... are these people talking about :-) |
MercurialFreddie 23.08.2014 08:43 |
Bad Seed wrote: I watched the rough uncut show at the London exhibition a few years back and have mentioned numerous times on here that I very much doubted this show would ever see a release UNLESS heavily overdubbed or pitch corrected (freddie). For me it really needs the autotune as the lead vocal from the night was pretty hard to listen to, I stood and cringed through most of it. For me this new version is far more pleasing on the ears.Weren't overdubs recorded back in the 74' as this was "to-be" their first live album ? Was Freddie's vocal performance really that bad on the rough uncut show ? |
Negative Creep 23.08.2014 13:33 |
pittrek wrote: I have now listed to "All you people keep yourself alive" about 10 times in a row and I STILL can't find ANY trace of autotune. Could you guys tell me what should I be concentrating on?Me neither. Listened multiple times with headphones and didn't pick up any autotune - if it's used it is incredibly subtle and only the anally retentive would notice. |
The Real Wizard 23.08.2014 14:10 |
Negative Creep wrote: Listened multiple times with headphones and didn't pick up any autotune - if it's used it is incredibly subtle and only the anally retentive would notice.^ or the professional. Sometimes you just can't help but notice if you know what it sounds like. |
Barry Durex 23.08.2014 17:55 |
^ ok. Lets see a professional post on here. |
The Real Wizard 24.08.2014 03:38 |
We have. A few guys who work in the studio with autotune say they hear autotune. And I hear it too. Not heavily, but subtly in a couple places. |
Barry Durex 24.08.2014 05:43 |
^ Perhaps you can post a before and after sample for pittrek then? |
rocknrolllover 24.08.2014 06:30 |
I wonder: if they can work with autotune and etc why they did decide to release compilation of both nights instead of both nights separately. |
thomasquinn 32989 24.08.2014 09:58 |
If they did use autotune, and I'm not saying they didn't, the result is pretty subtle. I don't hear the tell-tale signs myself, but maybe that's because we don't have the high quality audio yet. Still, I do think BradMay is suffering from a little bit of confirmation bias ( link ): I don't think autotune has been used quite as excessively or as blatantly as he is suggesting. That's not a dig or an insult, I do think he has a point in essence, but I can't imagine someone as anal-retentive about musical detail as Brian May accepting extreme amounts of autotune, and I don't hear it myself. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. |
Adam Baboolal 24.08.2014 16:55 |
I always turn to my fiancee and make a remark about tunes that use autotune and how I hate the sound - to the point that I try to avoid it when making music or recording others. Still, I've listened to those examples in the first post and... I can't hear it. If it definitely is there, it must be more subtle than normal autotune usage. I'm usually very sensitive to hearing it. I've heard it on Kerry Ellis' album with Brian, for instance. Oh well... |
Gregsynth 24.08.2014 17:14 |
Is it possible they used two different methods of pitch correction on this release (Autotune and Melodyne)? Melodyne is usually less obvious than autotune when applied. |
BradMay 24.08.2014 18:57 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: I always turn to my fiancee and make a remark about tunes that use autotune and how I hate the sound - to the point that I try to avoid it when making music or recording others. Still, I've listened to those examples in the first post and... I can't hear it. If it definitely is there, it must be more subtle than normal autotune usage. I'm usually very sensitive to hearing it. I've heard it on Kerry Ellis' album with Brian, for instance. Oh well...It isn't as noticable as regular autotune because it's Melodyne, you can pitch shift stuff by microcents but it will still have a sort off robotic character. |
Adam Baboolal 24.08.2014 19:44 |
You say "it's Melodyne" - How do you know that? Btw, I use Melodyne, so I'm very familiar with it. As a little sidenote trivia for folk, tuning corrections have been happening since the 80s! Don't believe me? Go research it. :P |
cmsdrums 25.08.2014 01:49 |
There most likely ISN'T a record released these days without being autotuned and pro tooled half to death, across all genres (especially the chart pop and 'R&B' stuff). |
thomasquinn 32989 25.08.2014 04:51 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: You say "it's Melodyne" - How do you know that? Btw, I use Melodyne, so I'm very familiar with it. As a little sidenote trivia for folk, tuning corrections have been happening since the 80s! Don't believe me? Go research it. :PDidn't Stockhausen experiment with pitch-correcting (well, 'correcting' or at least subtly 'shifting') specifically FOR the odd 'robotic' effect well before that time? Granted, it's not Autotune or Melodyne, but it's of a like nature. |
BradMay 25.08.2014 05:09 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: You say "it's Melodyne" - How do you know that? Btw, I use Melodyne, so I'm very familiar with it. As a little sidenote trivia for folk, tuning corrections have been happening since the 80s! Don't believe me? Go research it. :PBecause i use Melodyne as well (For a couple of years now) and even though you cán microtune notes after a couple of cents you will still get a very slight robotic character (like on Freddie's voice) It's more subtle than with autotune, but it ìs noticable |
thomasquinn 32989 27.08.2014 04:45 |
Have you considered the possibility that, because it is so subtle and you are specifically looking for it, you are getting a large number of false positives? |
Vocal harmony 27.08.2014 09:43 |
cmsdrums wrote: There most likely ISN'T a record released these days without being autotuned and pro tooled half to death, across all genres (especially the chart pop and 'R&B' stuff).That is very true. So much recording now has become very clinical. I guess the problem that Queen face in this "modern" world of perfection is that although Freddie was brilliant it is now 2014 and anything they release with his vocal is competing with average singers who, because of modern techniques in recording, sound perfect. So they are forced in a way to level the playing field |
The Real Wizard 28.08.2014 10:25 |
^ bingo. |
john bodega 28.08.2014 11:33 |
"because of modern techniques in recording, sound perfect" 'cept they don't. You can iron out the wrinkles in a shirt, but you can't change the fact that it has an ugly pattern on it. |
thomasquinn 32989 28.08.2014 12:39 |
Zebonka12 wrote: "because of modern techniques in recording, sound perfect" 'cept they don't. You can iron out the wrinkles in a shirt, but you can't change the fact that it has an ugly pattern on it.Nice metaphor! |
tomchristie22 30.08.2014 09:51 |
The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke from the March concert has some of the most glaring examples of pitch correction. 'Soldier, sailor, tinker, tailor, PLOUGHboy ... the arch-magician preSIDES...'. It's especially unnatural sounding on the high note of 'ploughboy'. Really disappointing that we might never hear that song live in an unaltered state. |
GERRYISADICK 30.08.2014 09:56 |
But its something |
tomchristie22 30.08.2014 10:07 |
It is, but it'd be so much better if they'd just let it sound how it sounded. Replacing the voice crack on 'locality' on the MK Bowl Fat Bottomed Girls is one thing - I personally see no issue with that, as they did it seamlessly and used an alternative recording from around the same time. Going through entire songs, taking marginally flat notes and 'correcting' them, however, just sounds like shit. Sacrificing character and authenticity for sterile, robot sounding perfection. Yuck. |
cmsdrums 30.08.2014 16:57 |
tomchristie22 wrote: It is, but it'd be so much better if they'd just let it sound how it sounded. Replacing the voice crack on 'locality' on the MK Bowl Fat Bottomed Girls is one thing - I personally see no issue with that, as they did it seamlessly and used an alternative recording from around the same time. Going through entire songs, taking marginally flat notes and 'correcting' them, however, just sounds like shit. Sacrificing character and authenticity for sterile, robot sounding perfection. Yuck.Yup - this I agree with 100% |
tomchristie22 01.09.2014 01:01 |
Just listening through the previews on iTunes - it's especially bad on Modern Times Rock and Roll's chorus. |
Oscar J 01.09.2014 05:10 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Just listening through the previews on iTunes - it's especially bad on Modern Times Rock and Roll's chorus. Which version? March or November? |
tomchristie22 01.09.2014 06:57 |
March - completely forgot they played it in November. link - This is how it ought to sound (though this version has some double tracking at certain points, it sounds like the melody is intact). If you compare that with the new release, they've actually completely altered the melody for the line 'rock and roll', and also made the harmonies on 'modern times' sound really strange. Granted, the second 'modern times' harmony was fairly out of key originally. November one sounds fine. EDIT: The line 'wanna try' at the very start of the Killer Queen sample sounds utterly ridiculous. Getting disillusioned with this release pretty fast :( |
Nitroboy 01.09.2014 09:03 |
tomchristie22 wrote: March - completely forgot they played it in November. link - This is how it ought to sound (though this version has some double tracking at certain points, it sounds like the melody is intact). If you compare that with the new release, they've actually completely altered the melody for the line 'rock and roll', and also made the harmonies on 'modern times' sound really strange. Granted, the second 'modern times' harmony was fairly out of key originally. November one sounds fine. EDIT: The line 'wanna try' at the very start of the Killer Queen sample sounds utterly ridiculous. Getting disillusioned with this release pretty fast :( I've mixed both the bootleg mix and the new mix to the video in an .mkv file - it sounds like AT LEAST the choruses were overdubbed on the lead vocals. https://mega.co.nz/#!FElzmTjb!6o38k5ejUMSXsIsC00cVzo_wZQvm48ArDReEVgbQaWk |
Barry Durex 01.09.2014 09:05 |
tomchristie22 wrote: The line 'wanna try' at the very start of the Killer Queen sample sounds utterly ridiculous.So the 'wanna try' sounds utterly ridiculous on this clip? |
pittrek 01.09.2014 09:10 |
I still can't hear anything unnatural. Even "wanna try" sounds perfectly live. |
GERRYISADICK 01.09.2014 09:16 |
People stop complaining you've been asking for the rainbow for ages and a few overdubs piss you off . I thought you didnt care you just wanted the rainbow |
Fireplace 01.09.2014 12:26 |
tomchristie22 wrote: EDIT: The line 'wanna try' at the very start of the Killer Queen sample sounds utterly ridiculous. Getting disillusioned with this release pretty fast :(I think you're on to something here. It's a well guarded secret that Freddie could only sing an E-flat note (that's why most of his songs are in E-flat), therefore every note that deviates from E-flat MUST be autotuned. Imagine the work producers did on his live vocal improvisations! Take it from someone who does work with Melodyne on a regular basis: any millionselling band that uses Autotune or some other pitch correction will do it in a way that is inaudible to the public, unless it was meant as a special effect (e.g. Cher). Queen certainly touch up their live recordings, but mostly by using parts from other shows from the same tour. |
Mrmarioanonym 01.09.2014 13:00 |
it's a shame. This could've been quite something. But then again, when has there been an unaltered Queen live album. That's what i love about the tapes offered here. You can hear exactly how they sounded on the shows available here. |
tomchristie22 01.09.2014 16:28 |
Barry Durex wrote:At 0:45, yes it sounds really artificial to me, especially on the climb up to the first note. I'll concede that maybe I'm just hearing what I'm looking for when it isn't there.tomchristie22 wrote: The line 'wanna try' at the very start of the Killer Queen sample sounds utterly ridiculous.So the 'wanna try' sounds utterly ridiculous on this clip? |
Barry Durex 01.09.2014 16:34 |
^ So it's either ''utterly ridiculous'' or you might just be hearing things? |
The Real Wizard 01.09.2014 19:29 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Granted, the second 'modern times' harmony was fairly out of key originally.Yeah, and I didn't care every 200+ times I listened to it. Because it's live and real. |
tomchristie22 02.09.2014 01:07 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Exactly right. I'm still looking forward to the release. It seems mostly intact, and is still terrific quality and much more complete compared to what we've had of it previously. The essence of it will be true to their live sound, even with the occasional corrections.tomchristie22 wrote: Granted, the second 'modern times' harmony was fairly out of key originally.Yeah, and I didn't care every 200+ times I listened to it. Because it's live and real. Barry Durex wrote: ^ So it's either ''utterly ridiculous'' or you might just be hearing things?'Hearing things' was more an effort to be diplomatic, as I'm not certain of what I'm claiming. But yes, Freddie's tone on 'wanna try' sounds egregiously distorted to me, especially on the first note at the beginning of the phrase. Feel free to compare with the VHS audio, which uses what is unquestionably the same vocal take. Or, for that matter, any other bootleg from the Sheer Heart Attack tour, in which he sings the lower melody on 'wanna try' for every single one, same as on the VHS audio for Rainbow Killer Queen. I can't find any higher variation at all like the one on the new release. |
tomchristie22 02.09.2014 02:25 |
It was only a minor example to prove my point, but I really am astonished that some people here can't hear that it's been altered. Hopefully a more clear illustration will help: |
pittrek 02.09.2014 02:57 |
Thanks, you're correct. |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 03:20 |
It's impossible to alter a melody that much using pitch altering without getting artifacts and really weird sounding "smurfy" vocals. That Killer Queen line must have been cut out from a different show or recording and edited in place, because there's no way that's been done with i.e. Melodyne alone. OR - the VHS sample and the new release isn't from the same night. |
pittrek 02.09.2014 03:34 |
Don't forget that the November show is a merge of 2 nights |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 03:57 |
Here's a mix with the old sound in the left channel, and the new release in the right channel. It's clearly the same night, but they've simply cut in the "wanna try?" line from another recording, possibly the other night. Otherwise there are not that many edits in this song, except for some intonation fixes on some of the high notes. Have a listen: http://clyp.it/hy0dlkle |
Bad Seed 02.09.2014 05:04 |
For me the comparison is two completely different vocal takes. The one from the old vhs is perfect, it's CLEARLY a complete studio overdub and I'm referring to the entire song! The new one is a lot more rough and almost certainly the original vocal from the night with possibly some slight tinkering |
tomchristie22 02.09.2014 05:18 |
Oscar J wrote: It's impossible to alter a melody that much using pitch altering without getting artifacts and really weird sounding "smurfy" vocals. Oscar J wrote: Here's a mix with the old sound in the left channel, and the new release in the right channel. It's clearly the same night, but they've simply cut in the "wanna try?" line from another recording, possibly the other night. Otherwise there are not that many edits in this song, except for some intonation fixes on some of the high notes. Have a listen: http://clyp.it/hy0dlkleThis makes sense - except where would they have cut it from? Like I showed earlier, there's no known recording where he sings that higher melody. Of course, that doesn't mean he never did, but it seems odd. |
Jurgan1000 02.09.2014 05:24 |
^ As pittrek already said, this is a compilation of audio from BOTH nights. |
tomchristie22 02.09.2014 05:25 |
Okay - I'm satsfied that it's taken from another show, not a complete altering of the original melody. Thanks all for your insight :) On a slightly different note, I wonder why they replaced just that tiny line - as Oscar showed, it's otherwise almost exactly the same vocal. Weird! |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 05:31 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Okay - I'm satsfied that it's taken from another show, not a complete altering of the original melody. Thanks all for your insight :) On a slightly different note, I wonder why they replaced just that tiny line - as Oscar showed, it's otherwise almost exactly the same vocal. Weird! Hey, you were the one that found it in the first place! :) Yes, I'm wondering that too. It's not like the original line was bad either, really can't hear any reason to replace it. |
Bad Seed 02.09.2014 05:41 |
It's been replaced because the original line was not the original line!!!!!! It was an overdub!!!!!! The new version is most probably the original vocal from the night |
tomchristie22 02.09.2014 05:46 |
So they overdubbed that one line for the original? Begs the same question of why. Either that, or the entire old lead vocal was an overdub, in which case they used almost all of it for the new restoration, restoring only 'wanna try' to the vocal from the night. That's even weirder. |
Bad Seed 02.09.2014 05:50 |
No!!! They overdubbed the entire song. They overdubbed the whole of Now I'm Here, they overdubbed the whole of In The lap Of The Gods Revisited, they overdubbed most of the bloody show! This new version appears to be mostly free of overdubs (except the 3 part harmonies) but has a fair bit of pitch correction. |
tomchristie22 02.09.2014 05:55 |
You're completely ignoring this:
Oscar J wrote: Here's a mix with the old sound in the left channel, and the new release in the right channel. It's clearly the same night, but they've simply cut in the "wanna try?" line from another recording, possibly the other night. Otherwise there are not that many edits in this song, except for some intonation fixes on some of the high notes. Have a listen: http://clyp.it/hy0dlkleIt's indisputable proof that the new version, at least of Killer Queen, is predominately using the old (overdubbed, you insist) lead vocal. What I want to know, then, is why on earth revert to the raw vocal for 'wanna try'? |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 05:58 |
I remember Gregsynth claiming that while there had been harmony overdubs to the VHS, the lead vocals were probably untouched. But I guess we can't know that for sure - and it's an interesting theory. The phrasing is extremely similar between the VHS and the forthcoming release version though (except of course fot the "wanna try?" line) |
Wilki Amieva 02.09.2014 07:20 |
It seems there's use of some (overdone) autotuning on the March show. For the November shows, they had two recordings so there's some editing involved - they used a lot of different takes from what we've heard before. The audio in the Blu-ray/DVD is quite raw, and I love it. There're even some minor 'mistakes' left in. |
pittrek 02.09.2014 07:43 |
Wait a moment - the CD has a DIFFERENT mix than the DVD/BD? |
Nitroboy 02.09.2014 08:45 |
The "wanna try" line on the new mix is the raw live vocal, the old VHS one was an overdub, THAT'S why it sounds so different. Sometimes I also think people mistake Freddie's '74 tone for autotuning |
Nitroboy 02.09.2014 08:48 |
pittrek wrote: Wait a moment - the CD has a DIFFERENT mix than the DVD/BD? Really? Can you give an example of this? |
Wilki Amieva 02.09.2014 08:52 |
pittrek wrote: Wait a moment - the CD has a DIFFERENT mix than the DVD/BD?I haven't implied that! |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 09:11 |
Nitroboy wrote: The "wanna try" line on the new mix is the raw live vocal, the old VHS one was an overdub, THAT'S why it sounds so different. Sometimes I also think people mistake Freddie's '74 tone for autotuning Wonder why they overdubbed it in the first place. It's a cool phrasing. |
pittrek 02.09.2014 09:21 |
Wilki Amieva wrote:Well your wrote they have done a lots of editing on the November show but on the DVD/BD the audio is "quite raw", which sounded like you're talking about 2 different mixes. That's the reason for my confused question :-)pittrek wrote: Wait a moment - the CD has a DIFFERENT mix than the DVD/BD?I haven't implied that! |
Barry Durex 02.09.2014 09:32 |
^ understandable |
Nitroboy 02.09.2014 12:55 |
Oscar J wrote:Nitroboy wrote: The "wanna try" line on the new mix is the raw live vocal, the old VHS one was an overdub, THAT'S why it sounds so different. Sometimes I also think people mistake Freddie's '74 tone for autotuningWonder why they overdubbed it in the first place. It's a cool phrasing. Probably to make it sound more similar to the studio version. Lots of theories. |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 14:54 |
http://clyp.it/mbzijd2o Some painfully obvious auto tuning in MOTBQ - have a listen at the word "right". Hope this can remove your doubt Nitroboy. |
GERRYISADICK 02.09.2014 15:00 |
Who cares if it is overdubbed its a 70s concert you've moaned and groaned about not getting one and when you finally get one you all complain like whiny little bitches get over it |
pittrek 02.09.2014 15:07 |
Oscar J wrote: http://clyp.it/mbzijd2o Some painfully obvious auto tuning in MOTBQ - have a listen at the word "right". Hope this can remove your doubt Nitroboy.Definitely not PAINFULLY OBVIOUS. But yes, the "t" at the end sounds different from the rest of the word, "something" has been done to it. |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 15:13 |
It's not overdubbing - it's AUTOTUNE, Einstein. You know the stuff Justin Bieber is using? I'm not whining like a little bitch, I'm simply analysing and expressing surprise over the fact that Taylor and May are giving the green light to stuff like this. Imagine Led Zeppelin or The Who auto tuning live concerts. Laughable! |
cmsdrums 02.09.2014 15:13 |
This topic is ironic in light of the extracts from the recent Redbeard interview that have just been added to Brian's site: "Forty years ago when a young London quartet called Queen headlined the venerable Rainbow Theater there, recording the performance on audio and film was a daunting task, both technologically and financially. Live recording then was much more art than science, no do-overs, no digital tricks, nowhere to hide". And “There weren’t any tricks to be had. It’s all live and dangerous.....” Some fibbing going on here?!? |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 15:18 |
pittrek wrote:Oscar J wrote: http://clyp.it/mbzijd2o Some painfully obvious auto tuning in MOTBQ - have a listen at the word "right". Hope this can remove your doubt Nitroboy.Definitely not PAINFULLY OBVIOUS. But yes, the "t" at the end sounds different from the rest of the word, "something" has been done to it. No, it's not the "t" that's the issue here. It's that the slide between the D4 and E4 during the word "right" has been eliminated by the auto tune plugin, making the vocal snapping directly from the D to the E in a very "digital" manner. I am really surprised that you don't hear it! You seem to have very sensitive ears otherwise. |
Gregsynth 02.09.2014 16:14 |
Oscar J wrote: http://clyp.it/mbzijd2o Some painfully obvious auto tuning in MOTBQ - have a listen at the word "right". Hope this can remove your doubt Nitroboy. I can definitely hear it there (has the digital/artificial artifacts). I looked at the original video for that line - and it didn't even need to be fixed to be honest (it's not even that off). In live shows - nobody sings in tune 100% of the time (even the best singers). If Freddie sang a completely wrong note - then it can be understandable - but if it's off by like 10 cents - just leave it! It's wouldn't even be noticeable! |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 16:19 |
Yeah, though abut that too. Couldn't remember any issues with the original vocals. Hey Greg, have you heard the full March version of Seven Seas Of Rhye on the iHeart Radio broadcast? I remember that performance being one of your fav's. it's even better than i remembered it! |
Gregsynth 02.09.2014 16:27 |
Oscar J wrote: Yeah, though abut that too. Couldn't remember any issues with the original vocals. Hey Greg, have you heard the full March version of Seven Seas Of Rhye on the iHeart Radio broadcast? I remember that performance being one of your fav's. it's even better than i remembered it! Yeah - that's quite an excellent version (one of my go-to versions)! So glad this stuff is being officially released! |
tomchristie22 02.09.2014 17:52 |
I think we can all agree that it'll be a terrific release, all vocal qualms aside. |
Oscar J 02.09.2014 18:18 |
Certainly. Can't WAIT. |
Wilki Amieva 02.09.2014 20:11 |
pittrek wrote:I meant the sound is quite raw. If you edit audio from two raw sources, you still have raw sound.Wilki Amieva wrote:Well your wrote they have done a lots of editing on the November show but on the DVD/BD the audio is "quite raw", which sounded like you're talking about 2 different mixes. That's the reason for my confused question :-)pittrek wrote: Wait a moment - the CD has a DIFFERENT mix than the DVD/BD?I haven't implied that! That said, I haven't compared the audio from the BD/DVD with the one in the CD, so I cannot say I am 100% sure it has an identical mix. |
thomasquinn 32989 03.09.2014 04:26 |
pittrek wrote:That is so subtle it could be totally untouched or slightly edited in any of a number of ways. This is definitely NOT proof of autotune or melodyne. I stick to my original point, that TS is suffering from confirmation bias.Oscar J wrote: http://clyp.it/mbzijd2o Some painfully obvious auto tuning in MOTBQ - have a listen at the word "right". Hope this can remove your doubt Nitroboy.Definitely not PAINFULLY OBVIOUS. But yes, the "t" at the end sounds different from the rest of the word, "something" has been done to it. Oh, and I think the 't' sound is just a problem Freddie often had - harsh consonants, particularly at the end of words, because he lisped slightly. Microphones are horribly unmerciful in emphasizing such flaws. |
Nitroboy 03.09.2014 07:24 |
I do hear some artifacting on the word 'right'. |
thomasquinn 32989 03.09.2014 07:51 |
I hear *something*, but it's not nearly obvious enough to make me go out and say "yes, that's definitely autotune/melodyne". I'm not even sure if what I hear resulted from the digital processing and editing or if it's something that's present on the original recording. I'm quite willing to accept that melodyne has been used, but I'm convinced it's rather more subtle than some people are suggesting. The problem is - if you work with melodyne a lot, you'll hear when it's used. However, you're also likely to hear a load of false positives *because* it's subtle. |
BETA215 03.09.2014 10:55 |
I'm not a autotune/melodyne expert, but that "right" is clearly digitally distorted, like the ploughboy in TFFMS. Can be unintentionally according to thomasquinn, but we have a lot of autotune/melodyne/distortions in the songs. Don't looks like that was present in the recording. I'm sure I don't hear false positives. I mean, my first time hearing autotune/melodyne was with the Fairy Feller's sample. And I hear it clearly, even before I know that was autotune. And I start researching and now I know what I hear is digitally distorted. Summary: To me, that is digitally distorted. I, Pittrek, The Real Wizard, and lots of people, would love if someone, after the Rainbow release, leaks the full concert without overdubs and distortions, like the Wembley's concerts. |
Oscar J 03.09.2014 11:27 |
I think people who don't use Melydone on a regular basis are more likely to hear false positives than those who actually know what it sounds like. But you know what: to hell with it. I hear what I hear, you guys hear what you hear. This has probably been discussed enough. |
tomchristie22 04.09.2014 00:54 |
It's blindingly obvious in March of the Black Queen - listen to how garbled it sounds on the 'I' in 'I rule[sic] with my left hand'. What's really confounding is that they felt the need to correct those marginally flat notes, but then used the take from the night where his voice cracked on 'QUEEN of the night'. |
Oscar J 04.09.2014 01:41 |
Good point! I personally feel that that little crack just adds some personality to the performance. :) |
tomchristie22 04.09.2014 02:24 |
I agree, it's a nice touch. It just seems to contradict the philosophy of perfection behind the cases of pitch meddling. |
Fireplace 06.09.2014 14:01 |
After carefully listening to the CD's a few times, I've come to the conclusion that almost all supected cases of pitch correction mentioned here are due to Freddie's use of falsetto in places where he thought he wasn't going to make it in his chest voice. Freddie hardly ever did that in later years and moslty opted for a lower vocal line in those spots, so especially for those of us who have heard many live versions of these songs it may sound like there's something fishy going on. I still haven't heard any definite use of pitch correction, which is just as well beacuse my being able to hear that would mean it was done badly. |
Oscar J 06.09.2014 17:09 |
Fireplace wrote: After carefully listening to the CD's a few times, I've come to the conclusion that almost all supected cases of pitch correction mentioned here are due to Freddie's use of falsetto in places where he thought he wasn't going to make it in his chest voice. Freddie hardly ever did that in later years and moslty opted for a lower vocal line in those spots, so especially for those of us who have heard many live versions of these songs it may sound like there's something fishy going on. I still haven't heard any definite use of pitch correction, which is just as well beacuse my being able to hear that would mean it was done badly. What? None of out examples are in falsetto. |
tomchristie22 06.09.2014 17:51 |
Oscar J wrote:Yup, and I've heard a huge amount of recordings from that period. If anything, that's the reason it stands out to me when something sounds different.Fireplace wrote: After carefully listening to the CD's a few times, I've come to the conclusion that almost all supected cases of pitch correction mentioned here are due to Freddie's use of falsetto in places where he thought he wasn't going to make it in his chest voice. Freddie hardly ever did that in later years and moslty opted for a lower vocal line in those spots, so especially for those of us who have heard many live versions of these songs it may sound like there's something fishy going on. I still haven't heard any definite use of pitch correction, which is just as well beacuse my being able to hear that would mean it was done badly.What? None of out examples are in falsetto. |