QueenZone discussion #1395337

Jefffabiano wrote: What should america do?

Panchgani wrote: Obviously America should blame Israel ... or Canada. Hamas is not a terrorist organization and would never kidnap anyone and hold them prisoner for years, because Hamas was democratically elected.

FreddieCat wrote:

Panchgani wrote: Obviously America should blame Israel ... or Canada. Hamas is not a terrorist organization and would never kidnap anyone and hold them prisoner for years, because Hamas was democratically elected.

Hamas dos not = ISIS.

Donna13 wrote: If you are referring to my post, please note that I did not say that they "executed" James Foley. I said they have executed civilians in mass. One of the definitions of execute is "to put to death especially in compliance with a legal sentence." ISIS is declaring themselves to be a governing body. They are overtaking areas and requiring non-Muslims to convert. Their penalty for refusal is execution. The term execution does not carry any connotation of approval or legal justification from me or the western reporters who have used the term. In the case of James Foley I would not use the term execution and I did not. They brutally and savagely killed him on camera in an attempt to terrorize and threaten not only every American but every decent person in the world who believes in democracy and freedom of the press.

Panchgani wrote: link

FreddieCat wrote:Opinionator forgets to say Hama is a legally elected government whose sole purpose is to protect/defend Gaza, period. There is only one entity conducting the mass killing of innocent people of Gaza, illegally stealing Gaza land, and imposing a deadly siege upon Gaza - Israel. Not Hamas, but Israel.

FreddieCat wrote:

Panchgani wrote: link

Opinionator forgets to say Hama is a legally elected government whose sole purpose is to protect/defend Gaza, period. There is only one entity conducting the mass killing of innocent people of Gaza, illegally stealing Gaza land, and imposing a deadly siege upon Gaza - Israel. Not Hamas, but Israel.

brENsKi wrote:

FreddieCat wrote:Opinionator forgets to say Hama is a legally elected government whose sole purpose is to protect/defend Gaza, period. There is only one entity conducting the mass killing of innocent people of Gaza, illegally stealing Gaza land, and imposing a deadly siege upon Gaza - Israel. Not Hamas, but Israel.

and you forget one thing. democratically elected or not, Hamas are not only murderers, they also pledge a mission statement to do exactly what the Nazi's failed to do - seems they (Hamas) are much closer to Hitler than the allegations directed at Israel.: this is from Hamas' own charter: - it's very easy to find and ALL over the internet: but i doubt YOU will see this as truth because left-wing apologists seldom see the facts...even when they are staring them in the face: The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS, is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). On the Destruction of Israel: 'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it" all very reasonable stuff eh? how would YOU like to try and live your daily life knowing that everyone in the next town is sworn to killing you?

Jefffabiano wrote: The GOP's credibility ... Touche

Donna13 wrote: Israel's very poor treatment of the Palestinians is a direct reaction to Palestinian violence (as is the wall).

Using your population as human shields is not being protective.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: the go-to response for very many pro-Netanyahu people is "if you don't support unlimited force by Israel, you support Hamas".

The Real Wizard wrote: The attached graphic should be easily understandable for any ten year old. The root of this problem is not Palestine.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Wow! Talk about some heavily slanted copy-pasting. No mention of the Jewish terrorist groups in British Mandate-Palestine. No mention of the King David Hotel bombings. Brenski, you are so full of your UNCONDITIONAL support of Israel (meaning unconditional support of LIKUD in this case) that you are unable to see how you are making yourself into a tool for militarist propaganda. You're practically working for the far right now! The worst thing is - you're someone who is usually fairly sane, but you throw all reason to the wind when it comes to Israel's aggression on Palestine. You're one of those people who claim everyone who doesn't fully support EVERYTHING Israel does is actually supporting Hamas. I never thought YOU of all people would be such a short-sighted, narrow-minded pro-warhawk jerk.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: You know what Brenski? You can go fuck yourself with your heavily slanted copy-pasted BS. You accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of selective reading, propaganda, misinterpreting and what not, but you yourself engage in some of the most hypocritical bullshit artistry I've ever seen on this forum. You're such a filthy propagandist now that you try to force everyone who doesn't support Netanyahu and his FAR-RIGHT GOVERNMENT unconditionally into a pro-Hamas mould. That makes you a pathetic fucking bastard who can't win a discussion by arguments. I've had it with you. Now that you try to usurp a position as a responsible historian you've crossed a line - you can go take your holier-than-thou attitude and your third-rate knowledge of history and cram it where they daylight never shines. You're so deluded that you probably still think you have the upper hand and the moral high ground in this argument, but you couldn't be more wrong. You support Israel unconditionally because the Jews were victimized by WWII - that basically makes you as much of a bigot as the people who want to kill all Jews because of Israel - you simply ignore that Israel does not represent all or even a majority of Jews. You're probably also crazy enough to agree with Netanyahu that JEWISH organizations that oppose his policies are anti-Semitic. You've really shown your true face, Brenski, and it's not pretty. You're an arrogant bastard with a superiority complex and not nearly as much knowledge and expertise as you seem to think. Anyone who justifies violence against innocent civilians is evil, and that is exactly what you do. You JUSTIFY Israeli WAR CRIMES and Israeli MASS MURDER ON CIVILIANS, and that, Brenski, makes you an evil person. I could try to act like you and be a huge condescending jerk without resorting to swearing, but I'm not going to. You're a complete asshole and I don't give a shit what further idiocy you're going to hurl onto this forum - I've had it with you, and I'm not going to waste a single further character on your sorry person.

ParisNair wrote: It is my opinion that in order for the Israel-Palestine conflict to end, the first step will have to be taken by Palestine. Palestine will have to acknowledge and recognize that Israel is here to stay, and give up all hostilities. Or else, sooner than later even the remaining patches of land belonging to them (as per Wizard's graphic) will turn white. Regarding IS, obviously they need to be finished at the earliest, and obviously it can be done only by intervention of US and the west. However, I hope US learns from the past, and does not implement the decades-old strategy of arming the local opposition instead of taking direct action/bringing in troops from friendly neighbors (like Saudi Arabia?). I hope there are lessons learnt from Afghanistan (starting from 80s)/Al Qaeda/Irag/Libya and even IS themselves. But of course, if that is the whole intention to start with, then it's a different matter.

FreddieCat wrote:

ParisNair wrote: It is my opinion that in order for the Israel-Palestine conflict to end, the first step will have to be taken by Palestine. Palestine will have to acknowledge and recognize that Israel is here to stay, and give up all hostilities. Or else, sooner than later even the remaining patches of land belonging to them (as per Wizard's graphic) will turn white. Regarding IS, obviously they need to be finished at the earliest, and obviously it can be done only by intervention of US and the west. However, I hope US learns from the past, and does not implement the decades-old strategy of arming the local opposition instead of taking direct action/bringing in troops from friendly neighbors (like Saudi Arabia?). I hope there are lessons learnt from Afghanistan (starting from 80s)/Al Qaeda/Irag/Libya and even IS themselves. But of course, if that is the whole intention to start with, then it's a different matter.

Hamas made this clear that it is not associated with IS and denounced IS. Palestine has in the past endured Israel's attacks through nonviolent strategy such as BDS, but chose to put up resistance this time. link Every ignorant moment spent blaming Hamas and accusing it of being IS is a lost moment and time needed to take on IS. The time is now to act on this monster.

Jefffabiano wrote: Well they did it again they executed the second journalist and are threatening to kill a british journalist

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

Jefffabiano wrote: Well they did it again they executed the second journalist and are threatening to kill a british journalist

Beyond this horrific act, I don't know what is most terrifying - their barbarism or the fact that their barbarism seems to be a successful recruiting tool.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote:

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

Jefffabiano wrote: Well they did it again they executed the second journalist and are threatening to kill a british journalist

Beyond this horrific act, I don't know what is most terrifying - their barbarism or the fact that their barbarism seems to be a successful recruiting tool.

Until you stop to look at the actual numbers. Even from Saudi Arabia, where it wasn't even illegal to join an organization like IS until last February, there are only a few hundred idiots who joined IS. The whole of Europe has provided a similar number. For the most part, IS seems to consist of Saddam Hussein-loyalists from the Iraqi military who gladly use imbecilic fundis as cannon-fodder. That does not make them any less disturbing, but the 'massive influx' of recruits needs to be put into perspective - less than 0.1% of the Islamic population (in most cases about 0.01%) is joining IS or similar groups like Al Nusra. To put it into perspective: during World War II, in the occupied countries, rougly 0.6% of the population joined the SS. That's about 60x as many volunteers as for all Islamic terrorist groups combined!

magicalfreddiemercury wrote: I'll admit, this is - somewhat - comforting. However, a report on BBC yesterday indicated that many Muslims in the UK support ISIS.

Doga wrote:

magicalfreddiemercury wrote: I'll admit, this is - somewhat - comforting. However, a report on BBC yesterday indicated that many Muslims in the UK support ISIS.

You're saying it: many. How much are many? What percentage is many? And how they know many support ISIS? They went with a microphone asking: Hey pal, you support ISIS? You want us all dead? Indeed ISIS are monsters, but they are just a group of poor devils, there are many monsters out there and they look much more friendly, and of course they are able to manipulate the news and the politicians.

Doga wrote: You are not getting the point. ISIS, and a few more terrorist are not the ones manipulating the news and the politicians, mainstream media tell ISIS is killing and kidnping people because some obscure groups want you to know ISIS is evil and disturbing (and of course they are) but how many people are murdered and kidnaped in the world every day? ISIS is in the news because some people want to tell the message the muslims and the middle eastern people are evil, and they will kill all the good western people if they could. That is call state of fear. An external enemy is one of the best ways to unite people, that is a well known tactic, older than feudalism.

Doga wrote: You are not getting the point. ISIS, and a few more terrorist are not the ones manipulating the news and the politicians, mainstream media tell ISIS is killing and kidnping people because some obscure groups want you to know ISIS is evil and disturbing (and of course they are) but how many people are murdered and kidnaped in the world every day? ISIS is in the news because some people want to tell the message the muslims and the middle eastern people are evil, and they will kill all the good western people if they could. That is call state of fear. An external enemy is one of the best ways to unite people, that is a well known tactic, older than feudalism.

YourValentine wrote: If they would attack your city you would speak quite a different language.

I have not seen a single mainstream media outlet blaming the normal average Muslim for the ISIS massacres.

Doga wrote: ISIS are dangerous, but i'm more worried about the ebola, for example, the amount of people who die DAILY in Africa for starvation, the state terrorism of Israel and Russia, the environment damage, the nuclear energy...