scottmax 15.07.2014 21:12 |
Apologies if this has been discussed before..... I know Brian says Freddie was too ill to record the last verse etc but was it written before or after his death? Listening to the lyrics, surely he wouldn't want Freddie to sing those words? |
emrabt 16.07.2014 01:46 |
Before his death, in fact although Brian says he wrote the last verse the Illustrated Lyrics Book has the whole thing copied out in Freddies handwriting…. Which means it was either copied over from the scraps of paper Brian was writing on… or he is lying (if you like conspiracy theories) |
Stelios 16.07.2014 09:03 |
scottmax wrote: Listening to the lyrics, surely he wouldn't want Freddie to sing those words?Why you say that? What is on that last verse that Brian didn't want Freddie to sing? |
scottmax 16.07.2014 10:00 |
Stelios wrote:As in it's basically describing Freddie and how he would probably would be feeling about his impending mortality. Could you sing about your own death ?!scottmax wrote: Listening to the lyrics, surely he wouldn't want Freddie to sing those words?Why you say that? What is on that last verse that Brian didn't want Freddie to sing? |
Chief Mouse 16.07.2014 10:19 |
Perhaps it's not like Brian didn't want Freddie to sing it but Freddie himself refused to do that? To me this last verse says basically I'm gonna die. Surely that must be a bit depressing thing to sing when you are about to die? I believe Freddie was positive type of man hence the songs like A Winter's Tale (about the beautiful world around him) and The Miracle in his last years. |
Vocal harmony 16.07.2014 10:41 |
Chief Mouse wrote: Perhaps it's not like Brian didn't want Freddie to sing it but Freddie himself refused to do that? To me this last verse says basically I'm gonna die. Surely that must be a bit depressing thing to sing when you are about to die? I believe Freddie was positive type of man hence the songs like A Winter's Tale (about the beautiful world around him) and The Miracle in his last years.If Freddie didn't like that last verse and wasn't going to sing it, why would he have written it out? |
apresalq 16.07.2014 10:55 |
The last verses was written by Brian surely, the complete lyrics book it's a good proof. In fact Freddie never could finished off the song,(speculations out!! about he never wanted), because he told Brian about coming back another day and he couldn't do it. Queen Days Of Our Lives documentary-Brian the last moments in the studio with him- |
Chief Mouse 16.07.2014 11:02 |
Vocal harmony wrote:Chief Mouse wrote: Perhaps it's not like Brian didn't want Freddie to sing it but Freddie himself refused to do that? To me this last verse says basically I'm gonna die. Surely that must be a bit depressing thing to sing when you are about to die? I believe Freddie was positive type of man hence the songs like A Winter's Tale (about the beautiful world around him) and The Miracle in his last years.If Freddie didn't like that last verse and wasn't going to sing it, why would he have written it out? I don't know. It's a speculation from my side. I guess the only way to find out is to ask Brian. |
FreddieCat 16.07.2014 11:19 |
Great subject and thank you for it. I believe that Freddie was stretched to sing this song. It was humiliating and denigrating. I feel Freddie walked away of course because he was sick, but perhaps also because he hated the song and couldn't participate in its making. This was Brian's song and in healthier happier days, Freddie would challenge any bandmate on compositions and lyrics. Yes, Freddie's last song, A Winters Tale, was beautifully positive about life just as he had been throughout his life. That the other two went along with Brian's finishing it is amazing to me. It is vocally and instrumentally beautiful though. |
noorie 16.07.2014 11:52 |
You know, I had never thought of that? Great discussion. Freddie was always a totally positive man. It just occurred to me how terrible he must have felt reading the lyrics when Brian first presented them to him. How do you give a dying man a song like that to sing? |
scottmax 16.07.2014 12:53 |
Has this been discussed before? I mean we know Brian hasn't got the best memory on the world and it's a great 'story' to say that Freddie never came back in to finish the song off etc. I think if Brian was asked you'd not get a reply as if it wasn't written when he was alive, it'd make him a liar! |
FreddieCat 16.07.2014 12:59 |
noorie wrote: You know, I had never thought of that? Great discussion. Freddie was always a totally positive man. It just occurred to me how terrible he must have felt reading the lyrics when Brian first presented them to him. How do you give a dying man a song like that to sing?Like a bad pup dog, Brian rubbing Freddie's nose in the piddle as punishment for what he had done to himself (and possibly the band, .i.e. 'look what you destroyed.'). The very last of the song with the baby crying and Freddie's baby picture is OTT for me. According to Peter Freestone, Freddie held no regrets (although I am sure he had a few). But again, the song is beautiful, and if you don't analyze it, very remarkable that Brian's voice sounds exactly like Freddie's, which can also be analyzed. |
andyb1968 16.07.2014 14:54 |
Brian's voice sounds nothing like Freddie's ! I always felt that Freddie would not have been comfortable singing those last lines, so maybe Brian took a bit of liberty and put them in anyway, and the final lines don't really fit with the mood of the rest of the song IMO. |
Stelios 16.07.2014 16:35 |
Are you bloody kidding me? He fucking sung " i long for peace before i die". This is as close to home as it gets. Not wanting to finish the song for personal/ subconscious reasons is one thing. To state that the last verses are lyricaly more painfull than the rest of the song just dosent make sence. 'Cos they are not. From start to finish the song is all about closure and prominent death. No gray areas for Freddie to "feel comfortable". |
FreddieCat 16.07.2014 20:34 |
I don't want to sleep with you I don't need the passion too I don't want a stormy affair To make me feel my life is heading somewhere All I want is the comfort and care Just to know that my woman gives me sweet - Mother love I've walked too long in this lonely lane I've had enough of this same old game I'm a man of the world and they say I'm strong But my heart is heavy and my hope is gone Out in the city, in the cold world outside I don't want pity, just safe place to hide Mama please, let me back inside I don't want to make no waves But you can give me all the love that I crave I can't take if you see me cry I long for peace before I die All I want to know that you're there You're gonna give me all your sweet - Mother love My body's aching, but I can't sleep My dreams are all the company I keep Got such a feeling as the sun goes down I'm coming home to my sweet - Mother love Yeah, I think I am on the wrong track with my previous post. It doesn't denigrate, but is definitely a downer. Maybe Brian is attempting to empathize with Freddie's situation. Did Freddie really want not to finish it, or was he really too sick to come back to I?. Who the hell would want to sing that about themselves unless they were into self pity, which Freddie wasn't and I'm sure didn't want a song that described his pain to be part of his legendary work. Conspiracy theory: he walked away from the song because he didn't like it and couldn't tell Brian how he felt. |
DragonflyTrumpeter83 16.07.2014 23:55 |
Obviously on the surface and with Freddie close to death; we want to associate its meaning with his death, but I see this song from a different perspective. To me, the song is written from the point of view of a guy in conversation with his lover (his "Mother Love") after a huge argument. He's spent some time on his own to reflect on what's going wrong within the relationship. He's come to the conclusion that he's tired of all the fighting and he wants it to stop. He doesn't want her to leave him. He wants her to be there by his side forever. He's begging her to stay. He's telling her how lonely he is and how much he's aching for her. By the end of the conversation, he feels like he's made his case to her and that she's going to stay with him. (He's going home to his sweet Mother Love) The line, "...I long for peace before I die.", just means the guy wants to settle all the problems within his life before he's too old and get back with his lover. With that in mind, I don't think Freddie would have had a problem singing that line. All I know is that it sounds really personal. Kinda says a lot about what Brian was going through during that period. Could be a conversation he had with Anita... Who knows? |
Stelios 17.07.2014 01:28 |
^ i was totally, "what the hell is he talking about?" untill the last sentence. In some places i can also see the Brian/Anita concept. But i think the "farewell my dears, i can't go on anymore" surpases the romantic overtones that Brian indeed gives to the song. |
Costa86 17.07.2014 04:05 |
I'm really not quite sure that Freddie was so much of a "positive" person as some of you are making him out to be. For every positive lyric he wrote, there is a negative one. Bohemian Rhapsody is a case in point - "I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all". How can you be positive when you have a disease which has reduced you to a barely walking skeleton, which has no cure, and which killed many of your friends? Freddie was intelligent - he was a realist. And I think he was also a cynist. All this bullshit about him having no regrets is just macho crap. Come on, how could he have had no regrets, knowing his foolish fucking around cost him his life, when he could have had just as much fun but exercised due caution (he kept on risking his life even after 1981, when AIDS became known - granted by then he was already infected, so anything he did was too late anyway)? He missed out on 40 years of life, for what? For a few thousand forgettable fucks. Positive people tend to be bloody stupid. The stupidest people are the happiest people. Freddie was a big achiever, and he always wanted to be on the move. He didn't have time for sulking and throwing pity parties. But that doesn't make him "positive". |
Costa86 17.07.2014 04:14 |
I agree that the baby crying in the end of the song is out of place. It is obviously one of Brian May's "special touches", which end up not really making much of an improvement to the overall song. I like the sections from "Goin' Back" and the "dee deh doh" from the live shows, but the baby part I hate. |
Chief Mouse 17.07.2014 06:50 |
Costa86 wrote: I'm really not quite sure that Freddie was so much of a "positive" person as some of you are making him out to be. For every positive lyric he wrote, there is a negative one. Bohemian Rhapsody is a case in point - "I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all". How can you be positive when you have a disease which has reduced you to a barely walking skeleton, which has no cure, and which killed many of your friends? Freddie was intelligent - he was a realist. And I think he was also a cynist. All this bullshit about him having no regrets is just macho crap. Come on, how could he have had no regrets, knowing his foolish fucking around cost him his life, when he could have had just as much fun but exercised due caution (he kept on risking his life even after 1981, when AIDS became known - granted by then he was already infected, so anything he did was too late anyway)? He missed out on 40 years of life, for what? For a few thousand forgettable fucks. Positive people tend to be bloody stupid. The stupidest people are the happiest people. Freddie was a big achiever, and he always wanted to be on the move. He didn't have time for sulking and throwing pity parties. But that doesn't make him "positive". Perhaps 'positive' wasn't exactly what I meant. Yeah, you could say he was a realist. I think the fact that Freddie carried on making music, and especially songs like The Miracle (Brian's quote below), shows that he was a strong person who didn't fall into despair, depression, drugs, alcohol or whatever. I picked the wrong word to describe this as him being positive. Though, in my defence, I don't think a lot of people in such stage of life could write a song like The Miracle and A Winter's Tale (genuine happiness about the world) without having some positivism in them about life. I don't think I could if I was in Freddie's place. "I've always loved this track, The Miracle. I think it's one of Freddie's most magical compositions. A very brave concept 'cos you gotta admit you're talking about a man who knows he's got a death sentence hanging over him now. He's writing this song about a miracle, this very light, very joyful..." |
FreddieCat 17.07.2014 11:46 |
Good refreshingly honest post and discussion. Yes, the baby crying with vid showing Freddie's baby pic is the pits. The concept is Brian's concept that Freddie wants to go back and relive his life. That part may have smacked Freddie's feelings. |
Stelios 17.07.2014 13:03 |
Costa86 wrote: He didn't have time for sulking and throwing pity parties. But that doesn't make him "positive". Generally i agree with your post. However he left a bit of space for pitty party but always melt it down with cynicism. Like "i dont have any friends but i have a lot of mirrors to talk to". Or answering the question -dont you want live with somebody? , "yes, but nobody wants to live with me", (also the hole concept of living on my own which is perhaps the most autobiographical until that point at least), Plus his continous remarks about dying young, not going to make old bones..stuff like that. Its not exactly pity party.Actually the way he expressed those things turned to the opposite. Like " i am brave enough to face my own misfortune". But there is melodrama in there and repressed negativism even if he chose to use "tongue in cheek" ways to articulate it. |
noorie 17.07.2014 13:14 |
^^^^^ Very well put! Yes, Freddie was melodramatic, but realistic, and he knew what was coming, and had accepted it to quite a degree. His attitude was kind of 'C'est la vie'! But, Mother Love reeks of over sentimentality and self pity, and that just does not sound like Freddie. Freddie had this one very endearing quality - he was able to laugh at himself. |
brENsKi 17.07.2014 13:33 |
i find it quite difficult to accept the notion that Freddie's sensitivities would be somehow impinged upon. Fact is he was dying...there NO lyric anywhere that can make that situation worse... It's not a case of adding insult to injury - that would imply that saying/doing the wrong thing in his presence could exacerbate things - which was impossible. My two pennies? I think if the lyrics had gone "I've been a wreckless tw*t, with only myself to blame" he'd have still sung them |
Mr.QueenFan 17.07.2014 13:41 |
FreddieCat wrote:Why are you being so mean to Brian?noorie wrote: You know, I had never thought of that? Great discussion. Freddie was always a totally positive man. It just occurred to me how terrible he must have felt reading the lyrics when Brian first presented them to him. How do you give a dying man a song like that to sing?Like a bad pup dog, Brian rubbing Freddie's nose in the piddle as punishment for what he had done to himself (and possibly the band, .i.e. 'look what you destroyed.'). The very last of the song with the baby crying and Freddie's baby picture is OTT for me. According to Peter Freestone, Freddie held no regrets (although I am sure he had a few). Do you really believe that Brian or anyone who saw Freddie in that condition would want Freddie to feel worst than he already was feeling ? Only Brian knows how hard it was to witness those last studio sessions, and if he gave Freddie those lines - and this was a colaboration between the two - he probably had Freddie's blessings. Freddie wasn't obligated to sing anything he didn't want to, so i really don't know where you are coming from The song is genius and the baby crying makes it even more special to me. I don't have a theory regarding this song, but Freddie sang the line "I want some peace before i die", wich tells me that Freddie was well aware of the song theme. Brian came up with words at Freddie's request "write me anything, i'll sing it" and we don't know what kind of brainstorming happened between the two of them that led to the end result. |
winterspelt 17.07.2014 14:56 |
Nice speculations, so far I always believed Freddie didnt recorded the last verse because of the circumstances. I remember I read in Jim Hutton's book that Freddie had to return to London because of The Sun or any other newspaper claiming that Freddie's condition "was official" and he had in fact AIDS. Jim's book match Brian's claims that he never returned to finish the last lines. I havent read Phoebie's book so it could be a good idea to read what happened in those days. Still: It doesnt matter how positive, realistic, etc etc Freddie was... In the end the poor guy was dying and the lyrics reflect that fact, he was, in the end, a human being doing what all people do when they know they are about to die because their sickness doesnt have cure. Being afraid, insecure, etc are feelings no one can control in situations like this. It doesnt change the fact that Freddie showed a huge strength in his final days. |
Stelios 17.07.2014 15:08 |
This turned very interesting. I agree with a lot beeing said here. I like to focus to the ''out of Freddie's character" aspect of Mother Love. This is a tricky one and it had caught my attention too. My guess is that in order for Freddie to leave Queen,(his job,creativity and escapism) and actually let go of life itself he might had to explore that last aspect of things. In which case they did actually involve depression,pity and stipped-down mortality. Remember that until Mother Love there were always twists and turns in Queen's art that made him look/feel like a hero.Like he was above of things. But letting go means letting go of your bravery too. In those situations it can't actually take you nowhere .Just prololg your agony perhaps, trying to keep a straight face. With Mother Love, Freddie finally looses that quality. He is just a human with all the flaws and fears of our nature. He can let go. Once that was documented in his art he never returned. He needed to never return in order to face the inevitable. With the help of Brian, Mercury became a little more of the Bulsara again(mama please,let me back inside) because Mercury was a second skin afterall. The way things turned it could have even felt like a burden. He had to loose it.And perhaps Mother Love heplded him do that. |
brENsKi 17.07.2014 15:55 |
maybe, maybe. but we will NEVER know for sure. it's just as likely that there's no analysis-worthy content and the words are as they are...and nothing more it's just as likely that it's just a f*cking song. |
Shumway 17.07.2014 19:31 |
I think if Freddie could have recorded the last verse he would have. He simply didn't feel strong enough on the day and unfortunately his condition only got worse. We've all heard the stories about him urging his band mates to write him music. He said he'd sing whatever they brought him. As an aside, I seem to remember reading/hearing that the recording of the baby crying was actually made one day back in 70s (or 80s?) when John Deacon brought one of his babies into the studio. Does anyone else remember that information or did I imagine it? |
luthorn 17.07.2014 20:07 |
I doubt there was anything sinister on Brian's part writing this song, given that he had to check himself into a clinic in Arizona shortly after his father's and Freddie's death, both of whom he was close to, to cope with the stress of the situation, if I recall correctly. Given the situation, Freddie's certain death, Brian wrote a song that maybe spoke about things Brian transposed onto himself: witness to Freddie's suffering and the experienced of a sad mood within the band. Freddie was putting a brave face, but if you look at the pictures from the last few years of the band Brian and Roger often look as if someone just died, while Freddie looks stone faced neutral. I'm sure they took it in hard. "mama please,let me back inside" may refer to a womb, getting back into the womb, where one is protected from the cruel exterior and much loved, which would explain cry of a baby at song's end. |
Stelios 18.07.2014 04:32 |
I dont think anyone has a problem with the baby crying concept. The song ends as fast backwords (plus the lyrical reference of back to the womb) so to hear a baby cry is very predictable as the "starting point". But its the specific baby cry that is off-putting Sounds too loud, cringy and annoying. They could have picked another sample more subtle and suitable for the occasion. |
brENsKi 18.07.2014 09:45 |
@Stelios most new-born babies do make a bit of a racket when they draw their first breath....so the ending is fairly accurate - and therefore not out of place. i think the volume is spot on. |
Costa86 18.07.2014 16:54 |
Stelios wrote:I agree almost completely, Stelios. I think you hit the nail on the head - Freddie did have a sort of macho bravado which disguised his repressed negative cynicist viewpoint on life, which itself may have hidden some deeper feelings he had.Costa86 wrote: He didn't have time for sulking and throwing pity parties. But that doesn't make him "positive". Generally i agree with your post. However he left a bit of space for pitty party but always melt it down with cynicism. Like "i dont have any friends but i have a lot of mirrors to talk to". Or answering the question -dont you want live with somebody? , "yes, but nobody wants to live with me", (also the hole concept of living on my own which is perhaps the most autobiographical until that point at least), Plus his continous remarks about dying young, not going to make old bones..stuff like that. Its not exactly pity party.Actually the way he expressed those things turned to the opposite. Like " i am brave enough to face my own misfortune". But there is melodrama in there and repressed negativism even if he chose to use "tongue in cheek" ways to articulate it. |
Zamidoo 19.07.2014 08:34 |
FreddieCat wrote: I don't want to sleep with you I don't need the passion too I don't want a stormy affair To make me feel my life is heading somewhere All I want is the comfort and care Just to know that my woman gives me sweet - Mother love I've walked too long in this lonely lane I've had enough of this same old game I'm a man of the world and they say I'm strong But my heart is heavy and my hope is gone Out in the city, in the cold world outside I don't want pity, just safe place to hide Mama please, let me back inside I don't want to make no waves But you can give me all the love that I crave I can't take if you see me cry I long for peace before I die All I want to know that you're there You're gonna give me all your sweet - Mother love My body's aching, but I can't sleep My dreams are all the company I keep Got such a feeling as the sun goes down I'm coming home to my sweet - Mother love Yeah, I think I am on the wrong track with my previous post. It doesn't denigrate, but is definitely a downer. Maybe Brian is attempting to empathize with Freddie's situation. Did Freddie really want not to finish it, or was he really too sick to come back to I?. Who the hell would want to sing that about themselves unless they were into self pity, which Freddie wasn't and I'm sure didn't want a song that described his pain to be part of his legendary work. Conspiracy theory: he walked away from the song because he didn't like it and couldn't tell Brian how he felt.This sounds more like someone suffering from depression than someone dying. Sure, it could have a double meaning, but it has a very similar feel to 'Too Much Love' about it - introspective and tortured in a trapped and helpless kind of way. Definitely more like someone with a psychological problem than a physical one... i.e. I think it's probably just about Brian and his feelings at the time, rather than anything to do with tying to empathise with Freddie. He was leading up to a serious mental health crisis, and it sounds like someone on the verge of a breakdown, to me. |
winterspelt 19.07.2014 12:53 |
Zamidoo wrote: This sounds more like someone suffering from depression than someone dying. Sure, it could have a double meaning, but it has a very similar feel to 'Too Much Love' about it - introspective and tortured in a trapped and helpless kind of way. Definitely more like someone with a psychological problem than a physical one... i.e. I think it's probably just about Brian and his feelings at the time, rather than anything to do with tying to empathise with Freddie. He was leading up to a serious mental health crisis, and it sounds like someone on the verge of a breakdown, to me.It is widely known that most of the times musicians writes lyrics with a very clear idea in their mind but prefer to use very general lyrics so people can reflect their own ideas in their work. This is a very interesting discussion and Im glad people are coming with all this different ideas and showing them as suggestions instead of trying to impose them. |
noorie 19.07.2014 13:04 |
brENsKi wrote: My two pennies? I think if the lyrics had gone "I've been a wreckless tw*t, with only myself to blame" he'd have still sung themI think he would have much preferred to sing that one! ;) |
Mr.QueenFan 19.07.2014 15:27 |
This is very interesting indeed, and a with twist i wasn't expecting. So, even though it looks that it is about Freddie's state, this can be about Brian's suicidal thoughts that he was having at the time? Wow! I'm very impressed, so if instead of Freddie's, this was Brian's cry for help- opening the book - this makes one of the most impressive turnarounds i've ever seen. Interesting point. |
Zamidoo 20.07.2014 05:11 |
^^^ I just think that, given that Brian worked hard (with Freddie, I think?) to get 'The Show must go on' to reflect Freddie's feelings (I'm sure there's an interview where he says he did this, somewhere?), it's unlikely that he would have produced 'Mother Love', to portray the same thing, especially as the sentiments are so different. The bridge in 'The Show must go on' is Freddie - ('I can fly, my friends!') and 'I'll face it with a grin - I'm never giving in!' etc... why would Brian then have written lines like, 'I've walked too long in this lonely lane', 'I long for peace before I die' and 'My body's aching and I can't sleep' for a man who had never been a tortured soul (Freddie had well-documented mood swings, but was not generally a depressive sort of person). Freddie was the man whose 'make-up may be flaking.... but my smile still stays on' (TSMGO), and was probably sedated under heavy painkillers most of the time by then. On the other hand, insomnia is a common symptom of depression, as is muscle aching... and feeling isolated and helpless. Freddie didn't want to die - he squeezed the last enjoyment out of life until the very end, and only stopped taking medication when life was no longer fun for him. Brian knew him well, and would have known this as well as anyone. So for me, in terms of 'Mother Love' being a song primarily about Freddie, I just can't see it. As for why he didn't sing the final verse, I think that the most likely reason is exactly what Brian has said; that he was too tired at the end of the session. |
noorie 20.07.2014 10:57 |
^^^^^ You know, the thing that does not make sense if the song was about Brian, are the snippets of 'Going back' Freddie's 'dey-dop' and the baby crying... That points more towards a Freddie theme. |
Zamidoo 20.07.2014 11:24 |
noorie wrote: ^^^^^ You know, the thing that does not make sense if the song was about Brian, are the snippets of 'Going back' Freddie's 'dey-dop' and the baby crying... That points more towards a Freddie theme.But that could have been done afterwards (post production) - it doesn't mean it was the original inspiration for the song (much like 'Days of our lives', which was about Roger's family life when his children were small, but 'became' about Queen when Freddie sang it). |
FreddieCat 20.07.2014 11:29 |
noorie wrote: ^^^^^ You know, the thing that does not make sense if the song was about Brian, are the snippets of 'Going back' Freddie's 'dey-dop' and the baby crying... That points more towards a Freddie theme.and Freddie's baby picture. It is without doubt about Freddie. Brian's suicidal issues came post Freddie/his dad's/his marriage death, an anticlimactical point in his life, i.e., abundance of life, love, relationships that he perceived as gone. |
madprofessorus 24.07.2014 16:42 |
Propably Freddie didn't made it to record the last verse,for me it's kinda logical,so I stick to this |
Rho-d Berth 11.08.2014 09:05 |
I don't think the lyrics are about going back and do things over and different. It's about a man who's about to die. It's known that (some) people just only ask for their mother when they're dieing. Longing back to the peace of the true love that takes care of them. To me that's what this song represents. "Mammy please, take me back inside" protect me, hide me, keep me safe. That's why it starts with the lost longing for love from lovers. The end is fantastic imho, it shows the greatness of freddie at his prime (stadium diedo's with everybody singing after him) back to the baby crying for his mother. Show Must Go On was recorded much earlier, I guess that Mother Love was more related to a man who was actually dieing and having peace with that. while TSMGO was more about a man who was very ill but still fighting. The last verse of ML is imho not any different from the first verses. And I love ML a lot, every part of it. Including Brian singing the last verse. Both the way he does sing it and how it gives much more dept to the song. |