| ZBGM0 10.07.2014 14:42 |
I would like to find out what happened with the piano track of Bohemian Rhapsody. I noticed there is a little difference between the original piano track (part of multitrack - also available on youtube) and the piano track of the actual original song. And I don't mean the beginning as I know that piano track at the beginning (Is this the real life...) was later removed for the original song. Also piano track for rock section was later voiced down for heavy guitar riff in the original song. What I mean is TEMPO. I calculated the speed (tempo) and found out that there are minimal differences. Actual it is very obvious. Original piano track (part of Bohemian Rhapsody multitrack) is little faster than the piano track of the ACTUAL song. Actual song is about 3 to 4 seconds longer than the duration of original piano track (part of multi track). It looks like there were two piano tracks but I doubt because in the documentary also Brian May talked about the Boh Rhap piano track and in the documentary there was the piano track that was part of the multitrack (the faster piano track than piano track of the actual song). My only explanation is that original piano track (part of multitrack) was afterwards slowed down when they recorded the song and I have no idea why would they do this. It would also mean slightly lower pitch in the actual song (few cents). Does anybody know anything about that? Tempo of this track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK2LdQePlSQ is not the same as tempo of the actual song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irp8CNj9qBI |
| FreddieCat 11.07.2014 13:06 |
Great post. Thanks! |
| Sebastian 11.07.2014 14:45 |
It's quite interesting and I hadn't noticed that before, but it makes sense. It could've been slowed down slightly, for whichever reason. That's the sort of thing interviewers and researched could spend some time on, rather than just trying to discover who Freddie was dating at the time and whether he was faithful to him/her or not. |
| popy 11.07.2014 14:48 |
If it's an error, it's an error, but i think it's an artistic decision. I'll try to explain but if i'm wrong, please someone correct me. If the piano track is slowed down, then bass and drums tracks must also be slowed down since all three were recorded live, meaning all at the same time. After that all the other layers were added (vocals, guitars, more drums etc) An example, as everyone (i think) knows, Another One Bites The Dust is speeded up. The original (before mixing it to the single/album version we all know) is slower. In this case, following the same idea, if the multitrack leaked we would ear the song in it's original speed. Want a taste of it? Hear Wyclef Jean feat. Pras & Free remix of the song. Compare with |
| popy 11.07.2014 14:53 |
double post |
| ZBGM0 11.07.2014 19:12 |
My theory. We know that Freddie was an amazing rhythm piano player and normally didn't need metronome for recording piano track. To my opinion there are 3 evidences that he didn't use metronome in Boh Rhap piano track: - Brian tells this in the documentary (the one posted by popy) - beginning (intro) has a little bit of rubato on some parts - if you calculate the exact tempo of the ballad piano track (which has 100 % steady rhythm, no rubato) you will get about 71,48 BPM. Not a round number that would be played with metronome. And this number 71,48 was probably a little bit problematic for other instruments. If Brian for instance wanted to record guitar track and use a metronome he would most likely want to have round BPM number like 71 instead of 71,48. Maybe this is the reason they slowed down piano track when final recording of the song. Of course I can not say as I didn't check the tempo of original guitar track. It is just a thought. |
| C_Matt 11.07.2014 22:35 |
I don't want to be a party pooper, and don't take all the next thing offensive in any way, but since texts can't express emotions it can be read as harsh, agressive or boaster, that's not my intention. To remember you that, I'll put a smiley face at the ending of every paragraph. :) It's exactly the same piano take. The whole song's speed (tempo+pitch) was lowered down. Just check another similar examples like 'You and I', SSoR, TYMD, 'Dancer', 'Teo Torriate', 'Soul Brother'... or now that you have the opportunity, check every song that you have access to the multitracks and compare it to the original one, even 'One Vision' is in a different speed. :) You have the opposite too: 'Staying Power', 'Cool Cat', DSMN or 'Long Away' are speeded up to a tempo which makes them to be in an impossible to play tune. LA's first note is between G# and A, but it's not any of those. In this case, they were speeded up to gain strenght, and when you speed up a song you can do it up to 1/4 note without noticing squirrel pitch changes. Check AOBtD or 'Hijack My Heart', it was speeded up to 1/2 note, and you can notice Roger's squirrel voice. :) Now, It could be an artistic decission (which I think that is) or it could be an issue with the technology at the time. I think it's the first one because other songs from the album (like LoaSA) don't have the same speed thing. :) About the metronome, it is right that they didn't use it till 80's songs (songs like 'Ogre Battle', GOFLB or even 'Hammer to Fall' start in a tempo and end pretty speeded up. Compare the last choruses with the first ones. But I don't think that has something to do with BoRhap and rounded tempos. I've been working remixing the whole AKoM, every single song has metronome, but none of them are in a rounded tempo. Some of them also slips from the metronome tempo at some point (copying, cutting and joining tapes?). The same with 'The Miracle' or 'Innuendo' albums. :) Check the next audio fragment, comparing the "Operistic Section" on the left with the original part on the right. I've placed both exactly at the same start point, but you'll notice that the left one is faster, this is because it wasn't speeded down. :) Here's it. Cheers! :) . |
| Sebastian 12.07.2014 01:19 |
I love these threads, much better than asking about Freddie's lovers or John Deacon's privacy. |
| ZBGM0 12.07.2014 05:19 |
Thanks C Matt.I thought simple metronomes from 1975 could normally only click on the round numbers and that's why I thought it was slowed down to 71 BPM (I checked and the actual song has a ballad speed of exact 71 BPM) for other instruments. I guess it is an artistic decision. Someone with Mozart pitch would probably hear lower pitch of piano in actual song. And yes you have a very good point about slip from the metronome tempo. I also discovered this situation. How Can I Go On is also one of those songs. But you can hardly notice. I guess music (rhythm)really doesn't need to be mathematically 100 % accurate. |
| Mr.QueenFan 12.07.2014 15:39 |
I think it's great that Queen don't work around a metronome. It keeps things fresh and interesting, and it allows the song to "breath" and grow. I think it's a strenght! But i remember that people used to slam Roger Taylor in the past because of this. Even the maestro Von Karajan allowed himself some liberties when conducting his orchestra. The thing is, when the song reaches the final it has become "more" than it was before. Like a living organism, and Queen are one of the very few artists who understand this concept. That's why a Queen song is allways growing with every tour. It becomes more along with it's creators. and this concept is not understood by every classical musician either. Here it is an expert of a Maria João Pires masterclass (she is one of the greatest Mozart and Chopin interpreters of our time on piano). The part that matters is on 4:35, but if you are a musician or just a listener there are many things here that will open your mind when listening to music. Listen to what she tries to explain to the student. and then realize why Brian May is a genius of phrasing: link Now, on this topic i only say that it appears to me that it was an artistic decision, and could have only be made with Freddie's aproval. On the "Another one bites the dust" i was under the impression that Brian wasn't aware that it was speded up, when he was working on "The game" dvd. I find it hard to believe that no one noticed. But with Boh Rhap, Freddie would definetely catch it if it was a mistake. I remember that when Freddie lip-synched his performance of "How can i go on" with Montsy, he new right away that the song was played at the wrong speed, even if minimal by peoples standarts. By 1980 he may not gave a shit anymore but in 75 he was pretty much on top of everything. But this is definitely worth further investigation. |
| ZBGM0 13.07.2014 11:51 |
I somehow tend to agree it is artistic reason, but on the other hand I am asking myself what is the point of changing the tempo for such a small amount of speed: three seconds are completely unnoticed in the whole song that is almost 6 minutes long. You simply don't achieve any different effect for the listener. You will never hear the difference unless you are timing the song. The difference is about 0,5 of a second in one minute. |
| dysan 14.07.2014 02:35 |
Weirdly I noticed this the other day while doing some remixing. I just put it down to format conversion? I'm not sure there should be anydifference between the stems and the finished track and essentially the stems present the finished track when played together. Like you though I was interested in the actual playing being revealed as different. Good thread. |
| ZBGM0 14.07.2014 06:16 |
I might be artistic decision, but 3 seconds have absolutely no effect in a song that is almost 6 minutes long. It almost sound like an error. |
| BETA215 14.07.2014 14:25 |
dysan wrote: Weirdly I noticed this the other day while doing some remixing. I just put it down to format conversion? I'm not sure there should be anydifference between the stems and the finished track and essentially the stems present the finished track when played together. Like you though I was interested in the actual playing being revealed as different. Good thread.Well, the actual available stem of AOBTD is from Rock Band or Guitar Hero, so the stem is in the same speed than the actual song, not like the Bohemian Rhapsody 24-track stem, which is leaked from Queen vaults. |
| dysan 15.07.2014 08:57 |
Fair point BETA215! |
| C_Matt 16.07.2014 23:25 |
Sebastian wrote: I love these threads, much better than asking about Freddie's lovers or John Deacon's privacy.Me too! |