| Stelios 06.04.2014 05:15 |
Music ability, talent,proficiency is hard to define but at least there are some parameters to examin. Actually the question is mostly between Freddie and Brian ( i see them as the most talented of the four) So trying to define the music ability i would take on acount: 1) Best ear for music (perfect/relative pitch) 2) More complex/original ability in composing 3) Efficiency on musical instrument/s 4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark) 5) Former training in music ( though this can be at odds with actual inherent musical talent) |
| Vocal harmony 06.04.2014 11:10 |
I would say that RT is the most accomplished as a musician. No other Queen member has produced an album like Fun in Space. Freddie and Brian couldn't. Niether can play drums and Freddie was somewhat limited in his guitar playing ability. JD could play guitar and Keys, as well as Bass, and by all accounts can play drums though I'm not sure to what level. However he couldn't sing. Roger's vocals are equal to or may be better than BM's. As individual musicians Brian, in the 70's, had some brilliant ideas on how to present the guitar to an audience, both recorded and live. But as a player there are many who are better and play more complex things and haunt been effected by time/age JD was a great Bass player, a very melodic style though always underplayed and underrated. As a guitarist he never showed any great talent but he could play. that isn't a put down of his ability. Freddie was for the most part a great song writer. His vocal ability goes without question. Though I believe his piano playing, although powerful and very locked in to the bass and drums was not as good ad many. The question of song writing. It's very subjective. Was Freddie a good song writer because he wrote March of The Black Queen and Bo Rhap or was he good because he could pen something as catchy as CLTCL. However you look at it. He's catchy pop stuff was no better and no more catchy then early to mid 60's Beatles and his complex stuff was nothing compared to some of what Rush did or what Dream Theatre or Muse do now. The rest of Queen were not overshadowed by FM's writing. |
| talismaniak 06.04.2014 14:49 |
Well interesting is that when you listen to the Kind Of Magic demo version you hear a song that sounds like all the FM demo's/Mister Bad Guy. When you hear the Kind Of Magic song by Queen you hear it is so much evolved in a classic song. The songs as solo artists (FM / BM and RT) are all excellent and all but they are missing 'the magic touch' that Queen as a band was able to deliver. Ok sorry this is more a 'best song writer' reply so a little out of subject but interesting enough for this discussion I think.... Talis |
| mooghead 06.04.2014 17:24 |
ie. who do you like most and why... |
| Mike G 06.04.2014 18:43 |
It's pretty obvious who the best songwriters were in Queen....The first 8 records were the classic Queen era....Freddie was obviously the best and original writer...not even close really, Brian was really great as well...actually it's close between those two...Vocal harmonies were Freddie and Brian....Equally I think...Brian was a huge fan of Freddie's harmony ability...Watch the ANATO Documentary, He goes on and on about his ability in Love of my life...so Brian And Freddie are the best in that department as well....Musically it was Brian,, he was an innovator on his instrument, a unique sound that no other guitarist could sound like....Freddie had his own style on the piano, but wasn't technically great...Roger was a good drummer, so he comes in second in that department.. Singing was Freddie obviously, then Roger...I think Roger is a better singer than Brian overall....So, when you say, Who Queen's most talented musician?....If you're talking about who's the best on his instrument alone, it's Brian....Roger was a good drummer, but not as good as Brian was...If you're talking songwriting and singing, it's Freddie....I alway's said Freddie and Brian is what made Queen Special, So I'll stick with those two overall...By the way, Barclona is above anything Roger has ever done....Singer's like Halford and Dickinson, even Sarah Brightman has mentioned Barcelona as special...I can't even think of one musician who mentions Roger solo stuff.... |
| Mike G 06.04.2014 19:00 |
Stelios wrote: Music ability, talent,proficiency is hard to define but at least there are some parameters to examin. Actually the question is mostly between Freddie and Brian ( i see them as the most talented of the four) So trying to define the music ability i would take on acount: 1) Best ear for music (perfect/relative pitch) 2) More complex/original ability in composing 3) Efficiency on musical instrument/s 4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark) 5) Former training in music ( though this can be at odds with actual inherent musical talent)#1 is equal between freddie and Brian #2 Freddie,, it's pretty obvious #3 Brian, Roger is a distant 2nd #4 Freddie,, but you could argue between Freddie and Brian, it's very close #5 see # 3 |
| tcc 07.04.2014 04:39 |
This topic seems very divisive and meaningless. The songs are accredited to the member who wrote the lyrics. That was their rule. They all chip in on the music and contributed to make it sound as good as it can be. We can only see the name of the songwriter but what went on behind the scenes, we do not know and cannot really judge. |
| Bad Seed 07.04.2014 04:50 |
Mike G, do you know Queen have a bass player? He is called John. |
| Vocal harmony 07.04.2014 07:03 |
Mike G wrote: [#1 is equal between freddie and Brian #2 Freddie,, it's pretty obvious #3 Brian, Roger is a distant 2nd #4 Freddie,, but you could argue between Freddie and Brian, it's very close #5 see # 3 #3 has to be Roger. . . He remains the only member of Queen who had the skill and enough ability as a multi instrumentalist to record an album on his own. Both Brian and Freddie's work outside Queen required other musicians, bM less so, and in Freddies case writers too. Because of this BM would be second to Roger with Freddie distant third. |
| Stelios 07.04.2014 07:31 |
Vocal harmony wrote:#3 has to be Roger. . . He remains the only member of Queen who had the skill and enough ability as a multi instrumentalist to record an album on his own. Both Brian and Freddie's work outside Queen required other musicians, bM less so, and in Freddies case writers too. Because of this BM would be second to Roger with Freddie distant third. #3For me is Brian. He developed a unique craftsmanship with the electric guitar.Mike G wrote: [#1 is equal between freddie and Brian #2 Freddie,, it's pretty obvious #3 Brian, Roger is a distant 2nd #4 Freddie,, but you could argue between Freddie and Brian, it's very close #5 see # 3 But if we take on perspective that Freddie's instrument was actually his voice, i believe he took it even further than Brian with the Red Special. |
| Mike G 07.04.2014 07:54 |
Stelios wrote:#3For me is Brian. He developed a unique craftsmanship with the electric guitar. But if we take on perspective that Freddie's instrument was actually his voice, i believe he took it even further than Brian with the Red Special.Vocal harmony wrote:#3 has to be Roger. . . He remains the only member of Queen who had the skill and enough ability as a multi instrumentalist to record an album on his own. Both Brian and Freddie's work outside Queen required other musicians, bM less so, and in Freddies case writers too. Because of this BM would be second to Roger with Freddie distant third.Mike G wrote: [#1 is equal between freddie and Brian #2 Freddie,, it's pretty obvious #3 Brian, Roger is a distant 2nd #4 Freddie,, but you could argue between Freddie and Brian, it's very close #5 see # 3 Agreed, of course it's all opinion, so don't no one accuse me of knowing it all as facts..Brian May was truly a unique player with a sound of his own...Roger really wasn't all that original as a writer or drummer and his voice wasn't either...He sounded like Rod Steward and Bowie....But he was good, just not on the level of Brian May...Freddie's voice is the first thing people notice about Queen...All ages, my 74 year old mother and 2 year old son sing along to Love Of My Life...His voice was groundbreaking....Roger is good, but groundbreaking he wasn't.... |
| brENsKi 07.04.2014 07:57 |
tcc wrote: This topic seems very divisive and meaningless. .it may be (as you say) pretty meaningless - but i don't see how it's any more divisive that any other topic requesting individual opinion. . Where you get replies like that of Vocal Harmony above, that is constructive surely? Unless of course you mean it could be divisive on a band level :-) - which i very much doubt it could be these days as one is dead, one couldn't give a stuff and the other two are joined at the hip....so what is there to divide? |
| Mike G 07.04.2014 08:05 |
Bad Seed wrote: Mike G, do you know Queen have a bass player? He is called John.I'm a fan Of Mr. Deacon...I like almost every song he wrote, but he didn't write enough to compete with Freddie And Brian.....Maybe he has the edge on Roger in songwriting...It's very close IMO...As a bass player he was solid, maybe a bit underrated....But I think Roger was slightly better as a drummer...Listen to Sheer Heart Attack, Brighton Rock, ect....but it's close with those two...John is very good as well...Dragon Attack is a good one for John.... |
| Mike G 07.04.2014 08:08 |
brENsKi wrote:This is a better topic than most of the other crap on this site!....Like the thread, Did Brian Have a Nose Job?...tcc wrote: This topic seems very divisive and meaningless. .it may be (as you say) pretty meaningless - but i don't see how it's any more divisive that any other topic requesting individual opinion. . Where you get replies like that of Vocal Harmony above, that is constructive surely? Unless of course you mean it could be divisive on a band level :-) - which i very much doubt it could be these days as one is dead, one couldn't give a stuff and the other two are joined at the hip....so what is there to divide? |
| Heavenite 07.04.2014 09:24 |
Mike G wrote:I would go with this list pretty much, except woudl say that it was not all that close between Freddie and Brian in terms of harmonies. Freddie was the best singer and he was also easily the best at harmonies IMO. Just check the Cosmos Rocks and see where the harmonies went when Freddie wasn't on board any more.Stelios wrote: Music ability, talent,proficiency is hard to define but at least there are some parameters to examin. Actually the question is mostly between Freddie and Brian ( i see them as the most talented of the four) So trying to define the music ability i would take on acount: 1) Best ear for music (perfect/relative pitch) 2) More complex/original ability in composing 3) Efficiency on musical instrument/s 4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark) 5) Former training in music ( though this can be at odds with actual inherent musical talent)#1 is equal between freddie and Brian #2 Freddie,, it's pretty obvious #3 Brian, Roger is a distant 2nd #4 Freddie,, but you could argue between Freddie and Brian, it's very close #5 see # 3 Despite that, I really liked the variety that Roger and Brian made to Queen vocals in the 70's. Freddie might have been easily the best singer, but I think that having just the one singer in the 80's most of the time made the albums a bit more one dimensional. |
| Sebastian 07.04.2014 16:00 |
Stelios wrote: 1) Best ear for music (perfect/relative pitch)That one's IMO nearly impossible to know as we haven't got enough information and/or access to controlled experiments to put them against each other in that department (e.g., aural tests to see if they can hear a melody and accurately replicate it either vocally or instrumentally on first attempt). Stelios wrote: 2) More complex/original ability in composingThey're both different areas, again, and again, there's no way to know for sure. Of course, there's Black Queen and Bo Rhap and Waltz and My Fairy King, etc., but Brian also could do things that Freddie couldn't, and probably John and Roger as well. In terms of having more chords, modulations, more advanced compositional vocabulary, etc., then yes, Freddie wins. In terms of the craftsmanship of arrangements, all four had different styles and they were all valuable in their own way. Freddie probably wouldn't have been able to arrange '39 or Good Company just like Brian wouldn't have been able to arrange Bo Rhap (vocally) or Seaside Rendezvous. Stelios wrote: 3) Efficiency on musical instrument/sIndeed, it depends on whether you count the voice as an instrument. If so, then IMO Freddie was the most advanced. Otherwise, yeah, Brian. I think Brian's ability as a guitarist far surpasses Freddie's as a pianist... in fact, Brian's ability as a pianist and singer far surpasses Freddie's as a guitarist as well. Now, if we're gonna count their overall ability on different instruments, then perhaps John Deacon was the most advanced one (vocals notwithstanding). He was really good on bass and he was also quite good on guitar (certainly better, IMO, than Brian was on piano or Roger/Freddie on guitar). I read one of the replies saying that Rog was the only one who could record an album by himself ... well, yes and no... FIS has the late great David Richards playing half of the keyboards, SF has several cameos by Queen members and also some rhythm guitar by Rick Parfitt (and probably again David Richards on keys) and the rest of his albums (including Fun on Earth) have guest musicians. Roger's ability on synths and piano, at least in the 80's, weren't too much greater than Brian's on bass or drum machines. If we rule out their main instrument, I think Brian's better on piano than Roger on guitar, and he's better on bass as well. The difference between Brian and John would've been that Brian could also sing both lead and harmonies, getting him closer to the whole idea of recording all by himself. Stelios wrote: 4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark)Depends on what you mean... arranging harmonies, singing them or producing them? Those are three entirely different sets of skills again. Arranging them - Again, Fred could do things Brian couldn't and vice-versa. Singing them - Lord Frederick, Earl of Mercury, FTW, with Roger as second IMO. Range-wise, performance-wise, subtlety-wise, etc. Of course, they sounded at their best when they were together (e.g., STL), but all in all I think harmonies sounded better when they were all Freddie (e.g., 'Love of My Life') than when they were all Roger (e.g., 'Tenement Funster') or all Brian ('Leaving Home Ain't Easy'). 'All Dead, All Dead' is a great example of a song where Freddie 'only' sang BV's, but he made the most out of a supporting role and elevated the piece to a whole new level. Producing them? I'd chose Freddie as well. He had a very nice way to mix them and get them to work. The others did too, of course, but not quite at the same level IMO. Stelios wrote: 5) Former training in music ( though this can be at odds with actual inherent musical talent)Both Freddie and Brian got to Grade IV on piano, and that's all the formal training any Queen member ever had. |
| Mike G 08.04.2014 08:13 |
Sebastian wrote:So, you pretty much agreed with me, lol. If not counting freddie voice as an instrument, it's brian...not Roger..I also agree with Harmonies Freddie is the man...Brian is 2nd..Stelios wrote: 1) Best ear for music (perfect/relative pitch)That one's IMO nearly impossible to know as we haven't got enough information and/or access to controlled experiments to put them against each other in that department (e.g., aural tests to see if they can hear a melody and accurately replicate it either vocally or instrumentally on first attempt).Stelios wrote: 2) More complex/original ability in composingThey're both different areas, again, and again, there's no way to know for sure. Of course, there's Black Queen and Bo Rhap and Waltz and My Fairy King, etc., but Brian also could do things that Freddie couldn't, and probably John and Roger as well. In terms of having more chords, modulations, more advanced compositional vocabulary, etc., then yes, Freddie wins. In terms of the craftsmanship of arrangements, all four had different styles and they were all valuable in their own way. Freddie probably wouldn't have been able to arrange '39 or Good Company just like Brian wouldn't have been able to arrange Bo Rhap (vocally) or Seaside Rendezvous.Stelios wrote: 3) Efficiency on musical instrument/sIndeed, it depends on whether you count the voice as an instrument. If so, then IMO Freddie was the most advanced. Otherwise, yeah, Brian. I think Brian's ability as a guitarist far surpasses Freddie's as a pianist... in fact, Brian's ability as a pianist and singer far surpasses Freddie's as a guitarist as well. Now, if we're gonna count their overall ability on different instruments, then perhaps John Deacon was the most advanced one (vocals notwithstanding). He was really good on bass and he was also quite good on guitar (certainly better, IMO, than Brian was on piano or Roger/Freddie on guitar). I read one of the replies saying that Rog was the only one who could record an album by himself ... well, yes and no... FIS has the late great David Richards playing half of the keyboards, SF has several cameos by Queen members and also some rhythm guitar by Rick Parfitt (and probably again David Richards on keys) and the rest of his albums (including Fun on Earth) have guest musicians. Roger's ability on synths and piano, at least in the 80's, weren't too much greater than Brian's on bass or drum machines. If we rule out their main instrument, I think Brian's better on piano than Roger on guitar, and he's better on bass as well. The difference between Brian and John would've been that Brian could also sing both lead and harmonies, getting him closer to the whole idea of recording all by himself.Stelios wrote: 4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark)Depends on what you mean... arranging harmonies, singing them or producing them? Those are three entirely different sets of skills again. Arranging them - Again, Fred could do things Brian couldn't and vice-versa. Singing them - Lord Frederick, Earl of Mercury, FTW, with Roger as second IMO. Range-wise, performance-wise, subtlety-wise, etc. Of course, they sounded at their best when they were together (e.g., STL), but all in all I think harmonies sounded better when they were all Freddie (e.g., 'Love of My Life') than when they were all Roger (e.g., 'Tenement Funster') or all Brian ('Leaving Home Ain't Easy'). 'All Dead, All Dead' is a great example of a song where Freddie 'only' sang BV's, but he made the most out of a supporting role and elevated the piece to a whole new level. Producing them? I'd chose Freddie as well. He had a very nice way to mix them and get them to work. The others did too, of course, but not quite at the same level IMO.Stelios wrote: 5) Former training in music ( though this can be at odds with actual inherent musical talent)Both Freddie and Brian got to Grade IV on piano, and that's all the formal training any Queen member ever had. |
| Vocal harmony 08.04.2014 10:29 |
Heavenite wrote: I would go with this list pretty much, except woudl say that it was not all that close between Freddie and Brian in terms of harmonies. Freddie was the best singer and he was also easily the best at harmonies IMO. Just check the Cosmos Rocks and see where the harmonies went when Freddie wasn't on board any more.I'm not sure thats the case with The cosmos Rocks. I think it was a choice rather than an inability. On Made in Heaven a lot of work was done to fill in gaps in BV's and harmonies which BM and RT covered really well. Also on Nothing But Blue BM on his own does some very Queen sounding harmony work, if RT had been there to add the top lines to those bits it would be very close. As it is it's closer than anything on the Cosmos album. Also remember that those harmonies were evident in part on the smile album. So although FM's voice wasn't present BM could both arrange and record those parts. |
| Sebastian 08.04.2014 12:18 |
Vocal harmony wrote: So although FM's voice wasn't present BM could both arrange and record those parts.That's never been denied. However, I still think harmonies done exclusively by FM surpassed those done exclusively by RT, and those done exclusively by RT surpassed those done exclusively by BM. |
| Holly2003 08.04.2014 12:44 |
"Now, if we're gonna count their overall ability on different instruments, then perhaps John Deacon was the most advanced one (vocals notwithstanding). He was really good on bass and he was also quite good on guitar (certainly better, IMO, than Brian was on piano or Roger/Freddie on guitar)." I don't see any real evidence that John was better on guitar than Roger. Both are competent rhythm players, but otherwise there's nothing to separate them. If John played the solo on Who Needs You I'd probably say he had a bit more talent than Roger, but to the best of my knowledge that's never been confirmed. He also played rhythm guitar live on Staying Power, but that's not very complicated. Roger has dabbled with lead and rhythm guitar and is competent especially with rhythm. But that's about it. |
| Stelios 08.04.2014 14:53 |
Stelios wrote: 4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark) Depends on what you mean... arranging harmonies, singing them or producing them? Those are three entirely different sets of skills again. Arranging them - Again, Fred could do things Brian couldn't and vice-versa. Singing them - Lord Frederick, Earl of Mercury, FTW, with Roger as second IMO. Range-wise, performance-wise, subtlety-wise, etc. Of course, they sounded at their best when they were together (e.g., STL), but all in all I think harmonies sounded better when they were all Freddie (e.g., 'Love of My Life') than when they were all Roger (e.g., 'Tenement Funster') or all Brian ('Leaving Home Ain't Easy'). 'All Dead, All Dead' is a great example of a song where Freddie 'only' sang BV's, but he made the most out of a supporting role and elevated the piece to a whole new level. Producing them? I'd chose Freddie as well. He had a very nice way to mix them and get them to work. The others did too, of course, but not quite at the same level IMO. ALSO While on the "The Harmonies Department" i concider Brian's famous Guitar-Orchestration as part of it. The equvilant of what Freddie did with his voice in Love of my Life for example. |
| Stelios 08.04.2014 14:59 |
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| Sebastian 08.04.2014 16:17 |
Holly2003 wrote: I don't see any real evidence that John was better on guitar than Roger.These things rarely have 'any real evidence', leaving it to personal opinion. And in my personal opinion, John was better on guitar than Roger. Holly2003 wrote: Both are competent rhythm playersBut John more competent than Roger IMO. Holly2003 wrote: If John played the solo on Who Needs YouHe didn't, it was Brian. Stelios wrote: While on the "The Harmonies Department" i concider Brian's famous Guitar-Orchestration as part of it. The equvilant of what Freddie did with his voice in Love of my Life for example.Brian played most (not all) of those guitar choirs ('orchestration' is far too big a word for that IMO) but that doesn't mean he also arranged all of them. Some of them he did, some of them were the creator of the song, some of them were teamwork. And if we're counting harmonies on instruments (which is perfectly valid), then what Freddie did on WIAWI also counts: having synth strings interact with each other, etc. By the way John also arranged and played guitar harmonies (Misfire). |
| Holly2003 08.04.2014 16:40 |
By "real evidence" I of course mean the songs they played guitar on and I can't see any real difference in ability between the two based on that. How do you know it was Brian who played the solo on Who Needs You? I think it was too, but I've never seen any confirmation of that anywhere. |
| The Real Wizard 08.04.2014 23:00 |
Almost all of the tunes that put Queen on the map were Freddie's (Seven Seas, KQ, BoRhap, STL, Champions, Bicycle, Crazy). They all wrote brilliant songs, but at their creative peak it was Mercury who delivered the most. Brian and Freddie both had excellent (and quite different) senses of harmony and arrangement, but Brian's technical ability on guitar edges out Mercury on piano (which is not to discount how unique Mercury's rhythmic approach to the instrument was). But in this category as a whole, May eats Mercury for breakfast. Brian's innovative genius is unparalleled not only in Queen but in the music industry as a whole. He created a huge part of the Queen sound with his bare hands when he was a teenager, and contributed to things to the evolution of the electric guitar that are still not widely understood even by most guitar players. Two words: Good Company. John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs. His musical vocabulary wasn't through the roof, but what he did with what he had was magnificent. Not only does Roger play many instruments, but his drumming was absolutely rock solid, never missing a beat in concert - nor a backing vocal. ^ most of these things are not in public consciousness, but this is what happens when you're in a band with the greatest frontman who ever lived. Even Mercury's piano playing is rarely mentioned. And overall as a band, no matter how bad the drugs got (largely thinking Mercury and Taylor here, of course), it never, ever got in the way of the music. If certain accounts are accurate, Queen partied on the road harder than any band before (or possibly since), and they all need to be commended for their utmost professionalism. Their off-stage life is not a thing of legend like Zeppelin (fishing, anyone?), largely because LZ's performances were often affected by it and it got people talking. Queen always kept it together. All four of them brought something to the table, and like most great collectives, the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. And in different eras certain qualities (and the criteria) are subject to change, so it's almost unfair to give a simple response. But, if I must... In a nutshell.. Writer - Freddie Musician - Brian |
| The Real Wizard 08.04.2014 23:35 |
Holly2003 wrote: How do you know it was Brian who played the solo on Who Needs You? I think it was too, but I've never seen any confirmation of that anywhere.Bri confirmed it on his blog a few years back. |
| Heavenite 09.04.2014 04:43 |
Sebastian wrote:Fair point about TCR and even the fill-in bits on MIH Vocal Harmony. But if you compare the solo albums of Freddie and Brian, IMO I would take Freddie's harmonies by a street. Doesn't mean Brian was bad by any stretch of course. But when it comes down to it, Freddie Was the lead singer. Brian may well have been technically just as capable of producing them of course! I Can't Live With You has a pretty great harmony vocal and I suspect Brian wrote and sung those.Vocal harmony wrote: So although FM's voice wasn't present BM could both arrange and record those parts.That's never been denied. However, I still think harmonies done exclusively by FM surpassed those done exclusively by RT, and those done exclusively by RT surpassed those done exclusively by BM. |
| Holly2003 09.04.2014 06:10 |
That pretty much confirms then that there's nothing between John and Roger in terms of their ability on the 6 string. They are both competent rhythm players. Roger has dabbled with a bit of lead playing too so if I had to choose one or the other based on this it would be Roger. Of course, it doesn't mean much either way. No one is going to remember either of them for their rhythm and lead playing.
Regarding the topic starter's question, it would be very hard to choose between Brian and Fred. Fred, after all, composed, arranged, sang and played piano on Bo Rap, whereas Brian did pretty much the same on Good Company -- Queen's underrated and almost unknown masterpiece. As I understand it, while the Flash Gordon album features songs from all band members it was Brian who did most of the work to make it into a proper soundtrack. Brian also took over Made in Heaven when John and Rog were floundering a bit. On the other hand, Fred did the amazing Barcelona album! Too hard to chooses between them.
The Real Wizard wrote:Holly2003 wrote: How do you know it was Brian who played the solo on Who Needs You? I think it was too, but I've never seen any confirmation of that anywhere.Bri confirmed it on his blog a few years back. |
| Sebastian 10.04.2014 00:30 |
John had a nice subtlety and use of dynamics on guitar, something that's reflected by comparing, say, 'You and I' and 'Spread Your Wings' (on both songs he played acoustic). He also had a nice way to play funky rhythm. In fact, Brian admitted the most difficult part for him (Brian) to play on stage was the AOBT funky bit, which had been recorded by John in the studio (and John's sounded more authentic). In terms of technique, performance and control of the instrument's large range of possibilities, John demonstrated more on the ca 10 songs he played guitar on (that have been released so far) than Roger did on the ca 40. That's why, in my estimation, John's a better guitarist than Roger. There's a reason why John played on some of Roger's songs (TLITE, TF) and at least one of Freddie's (SP) but Roger, that we know of, didn't play on John's or Freddie's songs. |
| Bad Seed 10.04.2014 02:14 |
I would assume John to be a better guitarist than Roger simply because his main instrument is a stringed instrument, in the same way I'd expect Brian to be a better bass player than Rog. Coupled with the fact that Roger is shit on guitar! |
| Stelios 10.04.2014 05:46 |
"John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs" I find that statment a little too much. However Queen songs were always little stories evolving (e.g. not repeating the exact 1st chorus but enhance it and change it a bit when it would come up again ). Therefore everyone in the band had to keep up with the "storyline". |
| Stelios 10.04.2014 05:58 |
And on the "best ear" department i have the feeling that Freddie had a special talent of using variations and harmonics of the original note sequence of a song (especially live). I am not sure if this prooves he had the best ear but perhaps he was the most gifted on "relative pitch". Or simply had a unique sense of combining melody and rhythm. |
| brENsKi 10.04.2014 11:01 |
Stelios wrote: "John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs" .you mean like John Entwhistle??? wondered where JD got the idea from |
| Mike G 10.04.2014 12:22 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Almost all of the tunes that put Queen on the map were Freddie's (Seven Seas, KQ, BoRhap, STL, Champions, Bicycle, Crazy). They all wrote brilliant songs, but at their creative peak it was Mercury who delivered the most. Brian and Freddie both had excellent (and quite different) senses of harmony and arrangement, but Brian's technical ability on guitar edges out Mercury on piano (which is not to discount how unique Mercury's rhythmic approach to the instrument was). But in this category as a whole, May eats Mercury for breakfast. Brian's innovative genius is unparalleled not only in Queen but in the music industry as a whole. He created a huge part of the Queen sound with his bare hands when he was a teenager, and contributed to things to the evolution of the electric guitar that are still not widely understood even by most guitar players. Two words: Good Company. John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs. His musical vocabulary wasn't through the roof, but what he did with what he had was magnificent. Not only does Roger play many instruments, but his drumming was absolutely rock solid, never missing a beat in concert - nor a backing vocal. ^ most of these things are not in public consciousness, but this is what happens when you're in a band with the greatest frontman who ever lived. Even Mercury's piano playing is rarely mentioned. And overall as a band, no matter how bad the drugs got (largely thinking Mercury and Taylor here, of course), it never, ever got in the way of the music. If certain accounts are accurate, Queen partied on the road harder than any band before (or possibly since), and they all need to be commended for their utmost professionalism. Their off-stage life is not a thing of legend like Zeppelin (fishing, anyone?), largely because LZ's performances were often affected by it and it got people talking. Queen always kept it together. All four of them brought something to the table, and like most great collectives, the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. And in different eras certain qualities (and the criteria) are subject to change, so it's almost unfair to give a simple response. But, if I must... In a nutshell.. Writer - Freddie Musician - BrianGlad you mentioned freddie as a pianist...I liked his style, .And I agree, Freddie best writer and course singer/performer....Brian best Musician....Doesn't mean I'm putting Roger and John down..both are solid.. |
| Sebastian 10.04.2014 12:38 |
Bad Seed wrote: Coupled with the fact that Roger is shit on guitar!He's not. He's a good guitarist, with some very good moments. But of course Brian and John were better. |
| Holly2003 10.04.2014 15:28 |
“John had a nice subtlety and use of dynamics on guitar, something that's reflected by comparing, say, 'You and I' and 'Spread Your Wings' (on both songs he played acoustic). “ Did JD play in Spread Your Wings? It’s not listed on the album notes. And the notes clearly say that both Brian and Roger played guitar on Fight From the Inside, so they were taking the time to attribute instruments to different people. The guitar sound on You and I is one of my favourites but as I said on another thread, I think JD had a LOT of help with this song. It is much more complicated than anything he had done previously (or since?) and I suspect it was “taken over” by Brian or Fred after John provided a very basic structure. “He also had a nice way to play funky rhythm. In fact, Brian admitted the most difficult part for him (Brian) to play on stage was the AOBT funky bit, which had been recorded by John in the studio (and John's sounded more authentic).” It’s hardly a surprise that a musician into funk would have more of a feel for it than someone who doesn’t like funk. In any event, that doesn’t have any bearing at all on whether John was a better guitarist than Roger. “In terms of technique, performance and control of the instrument's large range of possibilities, John demonstrated more on the ca 10 songs he played guitar on (that have been released so far) than Roger did on the ca 40.” There just isn’t the evidence to come to that conclusion. “That's why, in my estimation, John's a better guitarist than Roger. There's a reason why John played on some of Roger's songs (TLITE, TF) and at least one of Freddie's (SP) but Roger, that we know of, didn't play on John's or Freddie's songs.” Did John play on Loser in the End? It’s not listed on the sleeve notes. In any event, it’s a simple song that basically comprises 4 chords. Where and how then does John demonstrate more “technique, performance and control” than Roger? There could be any number of reasons for JD playing on other people’s songs and Roger not doing so. It's a real stretch to draw a conclusion from this that John is a better guitarist than Roger. But this is a fascinating topic (to me, at least!) and if John played on some of the songs you attribute to him it opens up another little window into Queen in the studio, which to me is one of the more fascinating parts of their history. |
| The Real Wizard 10.04.2014 17:38 |
Stelios wrote: "John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs" I find that statment a little too much. However Queen songs were always little stories evolving (e.g. not repeating the exact 1st chorus but enhance it and change it a bit when it would come up again ). Therefore everyone in the band had to keep up with the "storyline".I don't think it's too much. How many rock songs have a bass line like You're My Best Friend? The bass plays more notes than any other instrument in the song, yet it is merely a part of the song's overall tapestry, not a Jaco Pastorius wank-off session. But without it, there would be so much less. |
| Sebastian 10.04.2014 19:03 |
Holly2003 wrote: Did JD play in Spread Your Wings? It’s not listed on the album notes.Neither are: * The loads of people who stomped and clapped on WWRY. * BV's on WWRY, other than Freddie's. * Brian's and Roger's BV's on WATC. * Roger's BV's on SHA. * Brian's piano on ADAD. * Brian's and Roger's BV's on IL. So... the fact it's not listed doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen. Holly2003 wrote: It’s hardly a surprise that a musician into funk would have more of a feel for it than someone who doesn’t like funk. In any event, that doesn’t have any bearing at all on whether John was a better guitarist than Roger.It does, because if John can play what Roger plays and Roger can't play what John plays, then John's better. Holly2003 wrote: There just isn’t the evidence to come to that conclusion.That's why this is a subjective topic. Holly2003 wrote: Did John play on Loser in the End? It’s not listed on the sleeve notes.Loads of things are not listed on the sleeve notes ... but in this case, John *is* credited on acoustic. Now, we know he didn't play on FHLI because the backing track takes show it was the four of them simultaneously (with Brian on acoustic), so it leaves the following options: * FTS, WQ and SDOD: Very unlikely, as Brian would be a hell of a lot better than John, Roger and Freddie combined. Still, in the hypothetical case he did choose John to play acoustic on one of his songs, the fact he chose John instead of Roger would point at my theory of John being a better guitarist than Roger. * TLITE Holly2003 wrote: Where and how then does John demonstrate more “technique, performance and control” than Roger?On the way the chords are strummed, the way fret noise is mostly avoided, the way rhythm's kept precise, the way different colours are applied... take 'Misfire' (where John played both electric and acoustic), 'You and I' (where John played acoustic) and 'Another One Bites the Dust' (where John played electric). Different performances, and he did well on all of them. A genius of the guitar? No. An absolute virtuoso? No. But very good nonetheless. Roger's performances on Queen songs (e.g., 'Drowse'), solo songs (e.g., 'Happiness') and The Cross (e.g., 'Heaven for Everyone') were alright, but they sound more basic and limited. It's not just about playing something difficult (neither did), it's about making something simple sound better. To measure two guitarists, you don't need to get them to play Aranjuez Concerto. Just get them to do Twinkle Twinkle Little Star - the pro will make it sound pro, even without shredding or adding flourishes. The amateur will sound amateur even playing exactly the same notes at exactly the same tempo and using exactly the same gear. The way strokes are accentuated and alternated on AOBTD while keeping a steady rhythm, while not being an 'oh wow what a guitarist' kind of recording, is indeed quite tricky to mimic properly, whereas 'Rock It', for instance, is far more 'preset' in its performance. Same if you measure 'You and I' (acoustic) against 'Drowse' (electric rhythm), 'Who Needs You' (acoustic rhythm) against 'Sheer Heart Attack' (electric), 'Staying Power' against 'Action This Day', etc. There's enough amount of instances where John's performance has sounded more professional to logically think that John was, overall, a better guitarist. Holly2003 wrote: There could be any number of reasons for JD playing on other people’s songs and Roger not doing so.Yes, but the most logical one is: his guitar skills were good enough for Freddie and Roger to get him to play on their songs. Holly2003 wrote: It's a real stretch to draw a conclusion from this that John is a better guitarist than Roger.Not really, especially considering there are other factors. Holly2003 wrote: But this is a fascinating topic (to me, at least!) and if John played on some of the songs you attribute to him it opens up another little window into Queen in the studio, which to me is one of the more fascinating parts of their history.John played, as far as I know, on: * Loser in the End (acoustic). * Tenement Funster (acoustic). * Misfire (acoustic and most electric). * You and I (acoustic). * Spread Your Wings (acoustic). * Who Needs You (acoustic rhythm). * In Only Seven Days (acoustic). * Another One Bites the Dust (electric). * Need Your Loving Tonight (acoustic). * In the Space Capsule (electric). * In the Death Cell (electric). * Execution of Flash (or was it Arboria?) (electric) * Staying Power (electric). * Back Chat (electric rhythm). * Cool Cat (electric). * I Want to Break Free (electric rhythm). * Pain Is So Close to Pleasure (electric rhythm). * Don't Lose Your Head (electric rhythm). * Rain Must Fall (electric rhythm). * My Baby Does Me (electric rhythm). |
| Stelios 15.04.2014 06:43 |
A thing about Roger on guitar skills. I believe it is on the audio commentary of Queen: Greatest Video Hits 2. Brian sais something about his guitar playing on A Kind Of Magic. Roger corrects him and sais that he is actually playing the guitars. Brian responds something like "oh, pardon me", implying that he had forgot who played the guitars on the studio version of AKOMagic. |
| Sebastian 22.04.2014 06:11 |
Stelios wrote: A thing about Roger on guitar skills. I believe it is on the audio commentary of Queen: Greatest Video Hits 2. Brian sais something about his guitar playing on A Kind Of Magic. Roger corrects him and sais that he is actually playing the guitars. Brian responds something like "oh, pardon me", implying that he had forgot who played the guitars on the studio version of AKOMagic.Er... no, no, no, no, no, no and no! Brian said that Fred had looped a bit of the guitar Brian'd played and then Roger said it'd actually been him (Roger) who'd done it (i.e., looping what Brian'd played). They were talking about audio editing/manipulation, not about playing. And it was not GVHII but AG. |
| Stelios 22.04.2014 08:48 |
Sebastian wrote:You are right. I found that segment yesterday on you tube.Stelios wrote: A thing about Roger on guitar skills. I believe it is on the audio commentary of Queen: Greatest Video Hits 2. Brian sais something about his guitar playing on A Kind Of Magic. Roger corrects him and sais that he is actually playing the guitars. Brian responds something like "oh, pardon me", implying that he had forgot who played the guitars on the studio version of AKOMagic.Er... no, no, no, no, no, no and no! Brian said that Fred had looped a bit of the guitar Brian'd played and then Roger said it'd actually been him (Roger) who'd done it (i.e., looping what Brian'd played). They were talking about audio editing/manipulation, not about playing. And it was not GVHII but AG. By the way what is AG? |
| The Real Wizard 22.04.2014 11:47 |
Absolute Greatest, released in 2009. |
| Stelios 22.04.2014 13:22 |
The Real Wanker wrote: Absolute Greatest, released in 2009.I see. Obviously the same commentary is in bouth of those collections cos only own GVHII and it is in there. link |
| Sebastian 23.04.2014 03:44 |
No, you're right - it was on GVHII. Still, the core point remains: they didn't say or imply AT ALL that Roger had *played* the guitars, but that he'd pulled the bit that *Brian* had played and then looped it. |
| Sebastian 16.12.2014 02:58 |
I've been proved wrong: the Doctor confirmed on the Red Special book that the three-part harmonies occurring after Fred sings 'secret harmonies' on A Kind of Magic were indeed played by Roger, on the Red Special no less! |
| Viper 16.12.2014 03:19 |
INHO it has to be Freddie! His voice is quite unique! Brian comes 2nd because, mostly, of his distinctive guitar tone. Roger 3rd and John 4th. |
| tomchristie22 16.12.2014 06:14 |
Sebastian wrote: I've been proved wrong: the Doctor confirmed on the Red Special book that the three-part harmonies occurring after Fred sings 'secret harmonies' on A Kind of Magic were indeed played by Roger, on the Red Special no less!Huh! That's gotta be an anomaly, another member playing a guitar part on Brian's guitar. Also, I didn't realise John played guitar on so many songs. I'll have to go through those you listed Sebastian and actually form an opinion on his playing. |
| The Real Wizard 16.12.2014 14:53 |
Sebastian wrote: I've been proved wrong: the Doctor confirmed on the Red Special book that the three-part harmonies occurring after Fred sings 'secret harmonies' on A Kind of Magic were indeed played by Roger, on the Red Special no less!That's really friggin cool. |