QueenZone discussion #1365039
Red Special Super arrival (Finally)
| Togg 07.12.2013 10:33 |
Finally after 30 years of waiting for the most accurate version of the RS, my 'Super' arrived today. Barry Moorehouse delivered the guitar to after it's arrival last week. It has been set up by his team and if full working order ready to go. This is one of the first 10 guitars from the new run built in the Czech Republic, and the spec he tells me is exactly the same as before, with dimensions and spec taken from the Brian's 'Super' built in Japan. The pick-ups are hand wound and the trem and bridge built specifically for the guitar. The neck is as huge as everyone tells you and will take some getting used to but the attention to detail is excellent and the tone full and rich just as you'd expect. They are not cheap at £2950, but significantly cheaper than a Guyton, so unless you are in that market this is the one for you. The pick-ups are much more powerful than the lower spec version for general release, also the first thing you notice is the tone and volume pots make a huge difference, particularly the vol pot, which moves the guitar gently from sparkly clean to full throttle, this I found to be the biggest difference between the two. The tone is very similar, hardly much to choose between the two in the middle but at low volume the guitar is more sparkly and at high volume which can get much higher! the tone is slightly fuller. I am playing through a new AC30 with a gain control, so I slightly struggle to get Brian's tone as it's not so simple as to just the the volume up, however combined with a Fryer booster and the classic sixpence you are away. After literally 30 years of waiting (from deciding I had to get a proper copy to now) this is a truly amazing instrument. Not sure about the choice of hard case colour, but hey ho you can't have everything! |
| The Real Wizard 07.12.2013 10:44 |
Even the nut is to scale. Note how close the high E string is to the edge of the neck. This is the full monty, undoubtedly the closest you'll get to the old lady. Enjoy ! |
| bootLuca 07.12.2013 10:58 |
Great!! what serial number do you have on the back of the headstock? I have BMS08010 |
| Vocal harmony 07.12.2013 11:38 |
Looks to be a very nice guitar. It is a shame that they still haven't found a bridge which is closer to BM's own guitar. Another thing that is worth looking into is the pickup wiring. On Brian's guitar, old interviews would indicate, the middle pickup is reverse wound, however on the Guytons and Super it is the bridge pickup that is wired like this. This means that when the mid and bridge are selected in phase they act on each other a bit like a single humbucker and become hum canceling. However with the middle pickup reversed the hum canceling also accrues with the neck and middle selected. This also helps with the famous Bo Rhap guitars solo sounds and We Will Rock amongst others. Another fact that escapes most people is that BM 99% of the time doesn't use his tone pot, and plays with it wide open (treble up full) |
| mooghead 07.12.2013 13:44 |
I remember a few years ago Brian sent his guitar away to be 'restored'? What did they actually do to it? Apart from the aesthetic properties, can a guitar 'wear out'? |
| OwenSmith 07.12.2013 15:57 |
mooghead wrote: I remember a few years ago Brian sent his guitar away to be 'restored'? What did they actually do to it? Apart from the aesthetic properties, can a guitar 'wear out'?One problem I believe is that the frets are brass and the strings steel (which are harder). So as Brian bends the strings to bend notes, the strings wear the brass frets away. Eventually there is too little fret left and they need replacing. |
| mikeryde 07.12.2013 16:18 |
"Another thing that is worth looking into is the pickup wiring. On Brian's guitar, old interviews would indicate, the middle pickup is reverse wound, however on the Guytons and Super it is the bridge pickup that is wired like this. This means that when the mid and bridge are selected in phase they act on each other a bit like a single humbucker and become hum canceling. However with the middle pickup reversed the hum canceling also accrues with the neck and middle selected. This also helps with the famous Bo Rhap guitars solo sounds and We Will Rock amongst others. Another fact that escapes most people is that BM 99% of the time doesn't use his tone pot, and plays with it wide open (treble up full) " The original RS has the middle pickup Reverse Polarity (RP) and Reverse Wound (RW) as do the Guyton Red Specials. Brian did use his tone pot whilst playing in Queen but has not used it much since! The tone pot was important for some of the orchestrated tones (e.g. studio version of LOML). The new Super looks interesting. I have a prototype of the first issue (by KZ and Fryer) which also has the un-lacquered fret-board. However the productions models were painted and lacquered. Screw above the centre pickup is in the wrong position! |
| OwenSmith 07.12.2013 16:37 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Even the nut is to scale. Note how close the high E string is to the edge of the neck. This is the full monty, undoubtedly the closest you'll get to the old lady. Enjoy !Which nut is to scale? |
| The Real Wizard 07.12.2013 23:21 |
The nut to the left of the zero fret. The high E is closer to the edge of the neck than the low E - just like the old lady. |
| john bodega 07.12.2013 23:52 |
Ooer, nice purchase! If I worked often enough to justify it, I'd plonk for something like that. My Burns is in dire need of some TLC; I knocked a machine head off during a big finish and the output jack is crackling - as much as I've dug around inside the thing, I can't seem to really diagnose the exact issue. Anyone have an opinion on the quality of the current BM guitars? I want a Baby Blue myself. PS. to bring this post back to relevance, that's a lovely looking thing you've got there and upload some stuff with it. |
| master marathon runner 08.12.2013 03:48 |
Does it go up to no. 11 ? |
| Togg 08.12.2013 06:18 |
The serial number is BMS003 this is because it's a new run from the new factory, they have not been making them for 3 years due to issues with cost from Japan mainly. So they started from scratch and looked for a new supplier. In an ideal world I would have liked it to have had a lacquered fretboard but that would be for accuracy rather than speed, I'm no speed demon when I play. However this purchase has made me realise that to get the most accurate Brian tone you need a vintage amp. The new AC30 is great and is probably 93% there. I would say that the full on tone lacks just a smidge of clarity and the tone at lower levels doesnt shimmer to 100% accuracy. We are talking very slightly off but if you want the genuine tone I suspect only a vintage AC30 will do, the wiring is slightly different and the creamy tone just that bit richer, this sounds a little more modern in my opinion. |
| Vocal harmony 08.12.2013 10:03 |
OwenSmith wrote:Brian's guitar went through a major restoration in the mid 90's. Greg Fryer built three copies of the Red Special, BM has two, Greg kept one. They are beautifully put together, one was an evolution of the original, using different woods, hotter pickups and a slightly longer headstock. I believe that this guitar was damaged at last years Olympics closing ceremony.mooghead wrote: I remember a few years ago Brian sent his guitar away to be 'restored'? What did they actually do to it? Apart from the aesthetic properties, can a guitar 'wear out'?One problem I believe is that the frets are brass and the strings steel (which are harder). So as Brian bends the strings to bend notes, the strings wear the brass frets away. Eventually there is too little fret left and they need replacing. Brian seemed to favour these guitars a backup instument and a drop D guitar over his Guytons! The standard and care Fryer took in building these led BM to ask him to restore the Red Special, which at the time was not in good condition. Peeling veneer cracked binding, worn out lacquer, miss matched machine heads, problems with the wiring, damaged scratch plate. Greg worked in a work shop at BM's house, he stripped the guitar down completely, repaired what needed doing, even scarfing in some veneer to replace damaged bits. He was able to use the original stains that BM had kept when refinishing the damaged parts. The one thing that he and BM decided didn't need doing was a refret. Although I believe that since that the Zero fret has been raised slightly to compensate for wear |
| mikeryde 08.12.2013 10:50 |
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| mikeryde 08.12.2013 11:02 |
Andrew Guyton replaced the original's worn zero fret around 2005. Because the zero fret had worn irregularly it influenced the tuning of the guitar (intonation). Andrew spent many days trying to replicate these 'positive flaws' in the zero fret replacement. Togg, check out link (if you're not there already!). |
| Mr.QueenFan 08.12.2013 15:09 |
This is a great topic, and the guitar is beautiful. Can i expect the fretboard to be as "fat" as Brian's original guitar? I've read a review of the Brian May guitars and it said that this model has a more thin arm to please the general public - wich i can understand. But i want that big fat net, because i have big hands and it's very difficult for me to play "We will rock you" or "A kind of Magic" in a "normal" guitar. Where can i find this Red Special super arrival model? (a link would be appreciated) Thanks for sharing this beauty with us. |
| inu-liger 09.12.2013 03:45 |
"I believe that this guitar was damaged at last years Olympics closing ceremony" What happened to it there?? This is the first I've ever heard of that, although that also may definitely explain why Brian used a Guyton for FBG (drop D tuning) at iHeartRadio! |
| Togg 09.12.2013 03:56 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: This is a great topic, and the guitar is beautiful. Can i expect the fretboard to be as "fat" as Brian's original guitar? I've read a review of the Brian May guitars and it said that this model has a more thin arm to please the general public - wich i can understand. But i want that big fat net, because i have big hands and it's very difficult for me to play "We will rock you" or "A kind of Magic" in a "normal" guitar. Where can i find this Red Special super arrival model? (a link would be appreciated) Thanks for sharing this beauty with us.The neck is exactly the same as Brian's it's very fat, but actually I have found it a joy to play it takes a few mins to get into it but then for me anyway it seems natural to play with a bigger neck, somehow it feels like the guitar is part of you, I haven't really struggled at all. You can order one at Brain May Guitars, call Barry Moorehouse he will sort you out, they are probably only doing a short run depending on demand, they may do a Green version and I suggested a relic'd version, as I think collectors would love it. It will take a while to arrive as they only build 10 at a time, with 100 being the max (at the moment) so get your order in and I reckon by March ish you should have it. |
| bootLuca 09.12.2013 05:55 |
Yes, the neck is very fat but very comfortable... How much did you pay for it? :) If I remember correctly about 2500 gbp... |
| Mr.QueenFan 09.12.2013 14:40 |
Togg wrote: The neck is exactly the same as Brian's it's very fat, but actually I have found it a joy to play it takes a few mins to get into it but then for me anyway it seems natural to play with a bigger neck, somehow it feels like the guitar is part of you, I haven't really struggled at all.Thanks for you reply. I believe that the fat guitar neck really makes a difference on Brian's phrasing and vibrato, specially on songs like "We Will Rock You" and "A Kind of Magic". When Brian hits the A chord on the 12 fret and vibrates that ... it's pure joy for my ears. |
| Vocal harmony 09.12.2013 15:01 |
inu-liger wrote: "I believe that this guitar was damaged at last years Olympics closing ceremony" What happened to it there?? This is the first I've ever heard of that, although that also may definitely explain why Brian used a Guyton for FBG (drop D tuning) at iHeartRadio!The Fryer guitar had it's finish damaged by stage pyro or dry ice. Not quite sure which. Part of RT's drum kit fell victim to the same problem! |
| inu-liger 09.12.2013 18:17 |
Shiiiiit. They must have been PISSED... |
| Togg 10.12.2013 02:53 |
They are retailing at £2950.00
bootLuca wrote: Yes, the neck is very fat but very comfortable... How much did you pay for it? :) If I remember correctly about 2500 gbp... |
| Togg 10.12.2013 02:56 |
Wow didn't know that. You can see the Fryer here in this pic... Vocal harmony wrote:inu-liger wrote: "I believe that this guitar was damaged at last years Olympics closing ceremony" What happened to it there?? This is the first I've ever heard of that, although that also may definitely explain why Brian used a Guyton for FBG (drop D tuning) at iHeartRadio!The Fryer guitar had it's finish damaged by stage pyro or dry ice. Not quite sure which. Part of RT's drum kit fell victim to the same problem! |
| Mr.QueenFan 10.12.2013 09:42 |
inu-liger wrote: Shiiiiit. They must have been PISSED...Indeed! Brian is a smart man, perhaps he only uses the Red Special in controlled environments. I don't even know if he uses it in Live concerts these days. By the way, how do you know the different types of guitars Brian uses on stage? I know that his Red Special replicas have a different color (slightly), but i couldn't tell how you knew the guitar he used on FBG on IHeart Festival. |
| inu-liger 10.12.2013 11:05 |
The Guyton logo was very noticeable on the headstock, never mind the body's colour finish was much more red (and therefore nearly identical to the original RS) than the Fryer model that he'd favoured for drop D tuning. And yes, he still does use the original RS in concert to this day. It's the one that has the sixpence glued to the headstock :-) |
| Vocal harmony 10.12.2013 11:13 |
BM's home made Red Special is still his main guitar and is still used when playing live. The two Guytons one red one green have a gold Guyton logo on the head stock. His two Fryers, one is red the other is a heavily grained honey colour. Both of these guitars have a Fryer logo on the headstock but also have a white nut which makes them easier to spot. The other two Red Specials he has used live are a BMG super during the last Queen+ PR tour, easy to spot because it had Super stenciled in large letters on the body and in the 70's and early 80's his spare RS was a guitar built by Birch guitars. This guitar was built using maple and left it's natural colour, it featured a black headstock. It's worth noting that the Red Special is not a cherry red like the BMG guitars standard model, but is actually a reddish brown. Both the Fryer and Guyton guitars are very close to it colour wise, and under stage lighting it is hard to tell the difference. |
| Vocal harmony 10.12.2013 11:17 |
Inu-liger, I'm sorry for replicating a lot of what you've said. I was typing when you posted. |
| inu-liger 10.12.2013 12:35 |
When great minds think alike... ;-) It's all good, yours was more detailed anyways :-) |
| inu-liger 10.12.2013 12:39 |
Should also note, Brian used a prototype RS replica made by Guild in '84 for many years as a backup, until Fryer produced the next set of backups. |
| Vocal harmony 10.12.2013 12:58 |
Thanks inu-liger. Yes of course the Guild's I forgot to mention these. In 84 BM used the first Guild model. Fitted with different pickups and a Kalher trem. In the early 90's a second version was available. BM used a prototype of this guitar on the Back to The Light Tour. Although the proto was brown, the red production Guilds were cherry red. The second version had a more accurate trem and schaller roller bridge, but the scratch plate was way off. The pickups were Seymour Duncan copies of the Trisonics fitted to BM's guitar. Both easy to spot. White Guild logo on the headstock. |
| Mr.QueenFan 10.12.2013 14:46 |
Thanks for your replies, Inu-liger and Vocal Harmony. While rehearsing on the Guyton guitars i have found a scalloped neck Brian May guitar that he had used on the Q+PR 2005 tour. This is news for me! Brian May is going Malmsteen :-) I heard Malmsteen say that a scalloped guitar really does wonders to vibrato, but it's more difficult to play. I wonder if he practiced some arpeggios and neo-classical rock on it. Maybe some early Blackmore stuff as well. Either way, this is a great topic, and i absolutely love the Red Special. Probably the most valuable guitar in the world. |
| OwenSmith 10.12.2013 15:38 |
inu-liger wrote: The Guyton logo was very noticeable on the headstock, never mind the body's colour finish was much more red (and therefore nearly identical to the original RS) than the Fryer model that he'd favoured for drop D tuning. And yes, he still does use the original RS in concert to this day. It's the one that has the sixpence glued to the headstock :-)I've never noticed the sixpence on the headstock. I can usually tell on video footage if the real Red Special is being used simply because most of the replicas are the wrong colour, plus the scratchplate is scratched to death on the real RS from the sixpence and the pickup covers are dented and also scratched to death. The fingerboard also looks a lot more worn on the real Red Special. It just has a lived in and beaten up look that none of the replicas have. |
| Togg 11.12.2013 02:52 |
Brian used the Green Guyton for Fat Bottomed Girls at iHeart (pic enclosed) which is the first time for a while that he hasn't used the Rosewood Fryer in drop D, so looks like it may well have been damaged, can I ask how you knew it was damaged? not heard anything about that. I doubt it was dry ice, that shouldn't do much, even if you walk past the machine with shorts on it's no colder than if you are standing outside on a winters day. it could have been a Pyro that landed on or near the guitar, none were played next to it, but I guess one could have landed there. Regarding the Super used at the QPR shows, Barry told me that Pete originally put a small amount of masking tape on the guitar spelling out 'Super', which i have seen a pic of, they then sent the guitar to the factory to be measured and compared for new run of production guitars and somehow they damaged it, so when it came back the guitar had a MUCH larger masking tape stencil on it (the one we have all seen) Underneath the finish it scratched. |
| Mr.QueenFan 11.12.2013 09:50 |
Great information Togg. I originally thought that Brian was playing a Metal May guitar, because i thought it was a black one, and i believed that Brian was only trying to promote his guitars :-) Now, it's pretty obvious that it's the Green Guyton. |
| Vocal harmony 11.12.2013 10:30 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: Thanks for your replies, Inu-liger and Vocal Harmony. While rehearsing on the Guyton guitars i have found a scalloped neck Brian May guitar that he had used on the Q+PR 2005 tour. This is news for me! Brian May is going Malmsteen :-) I heard Malmsteen say that a scalloped guitar really does wonders to vibrato, but it's more difficult to play. I wonder if he practiced some arpeggios and neo-classical rock on it. Maybe some early Blackmore stuff as well. Either way, this is a great topic, and i absolutely love the Red Special. Probably the most valuable guitar in the world. |
| Vocal harmony 11.12.2013 10:43 |
Sorry not sure what happened there. The scalloped guitar was taken on tour but I don't believe it was used in front of an audience. It featured a misty dark purple finish which looks grey in certain light. A scalloped neck frees up the strings as the make no contact with the wood and so help vibrato/string bending. They require a very soft touch as to much pressure on the string forces it down behind the fret thus make the note sound sharp or flat. The limited amount of contact required to play a scalloped neck helps fast playing. Billy Sheehan uses a scalloped Bass. On the subject of BM's guitars he also has a twin neck 12/6 RS built by Guyton, and a black maple semi twin pickup Guyton with no trem. A second guitar that BM designed in the early 60's but never built at the time was built by Guyton following BMs plans. The guitar Has two trisonic pickups and. RS type trem and a maple RS shape neck. The body is a solid spade shape finished in Ferrari red. |
| Mr.QueenFan 11.12.2013 14:47 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Sorry not sure what happened there. The scalloped guitar was taken on tour but I don't believe it was used in front of an audience. It featured a misty dark purple finish which looks grey in certain light. A scalloped neck frees up the strings as the make no contact with the wood and so help vibrato/string bending. They require a very soft touch as to much pressure on the string forces it down behind the fret thus make the note sound sharp or flat. The limited amount of contact required to play a scalloped neck helps fast playing. Billy Sheehan uses a scalloped Bass.Billy Sheehan is a monumental bass player. I've seen him play live with Steve Vai, but i wasn't aware of the scalloped neck on this bass. I've never tried a scalloped neck myself, so i really don't know first hand how it feels. Vocal harmony wrote: On the subject of BM's guitars he also has a twin neck 12/6 RS built by Guyton, and a black maple semi twin pickup Guyton with no trem.I'm assuming that the twin neck is the one debuted at the Q+AL gigs last year. That's a beautiful guitar. Vocal harmony wrote: A second guitar that BM designed in the early 60's but never built at the time was built by Guyton following BMs plans. The guitar Has two trisonic pickups and. RS type trem and a maple RS shape neck. The body is a solid spade shape finished in Ferrari red.Fascinating stuff here. Now that you mention all these things, some stuff comes to mind because of reading his soapbox over the years. It's great to have guitar experts like you and all the others on this topic contributing great information. I never really focused on the electronic aspect of guitars, but i find it fascinating to listen to what people who understand those aspects of music have to say about it. |
| Togg 12.12.2013 02:51 |
Having now spent a few days playing the Super, I can say that I am very comfortable with the fat neck. Tone wise i have done a lot of A/B comparisons with the standard 'Special' and it really is very close in tone. I have a fairly early 'Special' No 80 of the original Burns version. The construction is a little off in places but tone wise it's so close to the Super. the major difference is the level of out put from the hand wound pick ups and the range in available tones from the Vol and Tone knobs. You are mainly paying for the closer 'look' and build quality. Just like my Standard Strat and my Custom shop one the differences are small when it comes to playability, as with all things musical wise you pay a lot more for a little improvement. Having said that it's the best £3k I have ever spent! I see also that RS Customs are now producing Brian May guitars in the US, this appears to be a different company to the old RS Guitars that used to before Brian asked them not to. Anyway they are producing a version at $7,500 I think. Why would you spend that much on a none endorsed guitar when you can spend £3k on an endorsed version with full spec taken from the original. and the whole Brian team together with Mr Fryer contributing. There also appears to be an Italian maker producing models which look fairly close, I saw a relic'd version but the relic wasn't done particularly convincingly, not sure what the price is of these. If i had the money I'd get Guyton to make one, (also endorsed (kind of) but they are around £8k and there is an 18 month wait... |
| RS_Protos 12.12.2013 08:12 |
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| RS_Protos 12.12.2013 08:38 |
"Having said that it's the best £3k I have ever spent! I see also that RS Customs are now producing Brian May guitars in the US, this appears to be a different company to the old RS Guitars that used to before Brian asked them not to. Anyway they are producing a version at $7,500 I think. Why would you spend that much on a none endorsed guitar when you can spend £3k on an endorsed version with full spec taken from the original. and the whole Brian team together with Mr Fryer contributing. " Hate to tell you but it's not full spec like the original! The RS customs guitar and the one you bought are totally different. RS customs(totally different company from the older RS Guitars company) is replicating all the original RS components. Not saying your guitar is not great, but there are some major differences from the original and yours. That's why the big price difference! Some major differences for example: bolt on neck, laquered neck, blockboard body with oak insert and veneer, bridge, etc....these are major differences which is why the RS customs supreme model costs more than yours They have a model which the specs are like the new super model that's a lot less. Have you seen the guyton rs price that replicates the original? But the way, i don't have anything to do RS customs, just wanted to let you know the facts. Again, your guitar is great for the price, beautiful and I bet sounds awesome. |
| Fireplace 12.12.2013 09:28 |
Mr. Togg, would you care to comment on intonation and (absence of) string pull? I have the standard Burns copy and if I hit the lower strings with any force at all, they'll go frighteningly sharp. I love the sound and the feel of the guitar, but the string pull takes out a lot of the fun in playing it. |
| Vocal harmony 12.12.2013 10:03 |
It should be noted that RS custom guitars, before they had gone into production were claiming that their RS would be the most accurate and well made option. It's a claim that has been made since then too Their top of the range guitar, there fore is aimed at the same market as the Guyton and is of similar construction. It should be remembered however that the Guyton guitar was built using BM's original plans and also the Red Special in effect became a prototype and was measured and even x rayed in order to get the Guyton as close as is possible to be, and with BM's input too Rs custom guitars did not have the same research or first hand input, and indeed when compared to a Guyton the differences do show them selves. There was also the case, a few years ago, where the finger board of an RS custom separated from the neck near the body joint, the repair that they did at the time didn't reflect the quality that they claimed to their guitars to have. Of the none official RS replacers the KZ pro was easily the best in teems of playability and build quality. |
| Togg 13.12.2013 03:20 |
Fireplace wrote: Mr. Togg, would you care to comment on intonation and (absence of) string pull? I have the standard Burns copy and if I hit the lower strings with any force at all, they'll go frighteningly sharp. I love the sound and the feel of the guitar, but the string pull takes out a lot of the fun in playing it. At first the guitar was slipping out of tune pretty well every time I played it, particularly when the Trem was used a lot, The Trem is very sensitive only light pressure from your finger will make it move. Now the strings have settled in I have found it has stayed in tune all day with only one tuning first thing, as you would imagine it has had pretty heavy use in the past week... Intonation wise it seems fine, my Burns is slightly off, there is an ever so slight slant to the frets down the fret board and so I am not 100% confident that it has perfect intonation even when set up well. However i have found it stays in tune pretty well considering. The Super's strings are under far less pressure in terms of angles than say a strat, so I suspect it will stay in tune much better. On a side note I also changed my AC30's Green speakers to Blues and went to Watford valves to get some replacement valves that had been properly tested. Again it took about 20 hours of playing before the new speakers settled in, now I am really pleased with the result, the Amp is much warmer and so so close to the Brian tone. |
| Togg 13.12.2013 03:43 |
RS_Protos wrote: "Having said that it's the best £3k I have ever spent! I see also that RS Customs are now producing Brian May guitars in the US, this appears to be a different company to the old RS Guitars that used to before Brian asked them not to. Anyway they are producing a version at $7,500 I think. Why would you spend that much on a none endorsed guitar when you can spend £3k on an endorsed version with full spec taken from the original. and the whole Brian team together with Mr Fryer contributing. " Hate to tell you but it's not full spec like the original! The RS customs guitar and the one you bought are totally different. RS customs(totally different company from the older RS Guitars company) is replicating all the original RS components. Not saying your guitar is not great, but there are some major differences from the original and yours. That's why the big price difference! Some major differences for example: bolt on neck, laquered neck, blockboard body with oak insert and veneer, bridge, etc....these are major differences which is why the RS customs supreme model costs more than yours They have a model which the specs are like the new super model that's a lot less. Have you seen the guyton rs price that replicates the original? But the way, i don't have anything to do RS customs, just wanted to let you know the facts. Again, your guitar is great for the price, beautiful and I bet sounds awesome. ----- I think you're right in terms of build here, both RS customs and Guyton and designed to be very low run models so they dont have to produce high numbers of instruments. However of the two I would go for Guyton every time. But yes in terms of build I am sure that it's very close indeed. I am very much aware of the amendments made to the 'Super' such as a glued neck ect, but that's what you get if you need to make a guitar that will be produced in reasonably high numbers. If I could afford it I would go for a Guyton. Whilst I saw that RS Customs have copies of the original plans sent to them by John Page at Fender after he started working on a Brian model that never saw the light of day, they have not had the opportunity to compare the original guitar next to theirs. Greg Fryer spent months working on the original and then was heavily involved in getting the correct tones for the high street 'special' and more recently the 'Super'. In the case of the Super, he spent a lot of time working on the prototypes, alongside of course Brian... So if Brian is happy to play the 'Super' alongside his own and the Fryers and Guytons I suspect it's right up there in terms of tone. Also Jamie plays a 'Super' when backing Brian, his has an extra volume knob nearer the position of a strats . I would love to see and play an RS Customs in person, but there is no substitution for having Fryer, Guyton and of course May working on the prototypes of the guitar, it you want to get the tone right. If you listen to the Cosmos tour, when Brian plays the 'Super' if you shut your eyes you can't tell it from the original. Also pretty sure Brian would not be amused that RS have 'his' plans, technically they were not Mr Pages to give away. Brian told the first RS business they were in effect ripping him off by producing his design without permission...They then stopped production. Barry indicated that Brian had similar feelings about the other manufacturers out there making his design without permission. Much as Steve Jobs protected the designs Apple produce as others try to copy them, I would imagine if he had the time Brian would do the same with his design. |
| OwenSmith 13.12.2013 05:05 |
On the subject of companies ripping off Brian's design, in the UK (and most/all? of the EU) copyright is 50 years. So there can't be more than a handful of years left before the original Red Special is out of copyright. |
| OwenSmith 13.12.2013 05:09 |
Talking of what other guitarists play, Brian Gesh played some sort of left handed Red Special copy on the latest Queen Extravagnaza tour. I could also see an AC30 lurking at the back of the stage. It didn't sound spot on to me, not enough warmth to the sound. But the new AC30s are reckoned to be not as warm so that might be partly to blame. Anyone know what model of guitar Brian Gesh was playing? |
| Fireplace 13.12.2013 05:53 |
Togg wrote:Thanks for your insights and enjoy playing that beautiful beast!Fireplace wrote: Mr. Togg, would you care to comment on intonation and (absence of) string pull? I have the standard Burns copy and if I hit the lower strings with any force at all, they'll go frighteningly sharp. I love the sound and the feel of the guitar, but the string pull takes out a lot of the fun in playing it.At first the guitar was slipping out of tune pretty well every time I played it, particularly when the Trem was used a lot, The Trem is very sensitive only light pressure from your finger will make it move. Now the strings have settled in I have found it has stayed in tune all day with only one tuning first thing, as you would imagine it has had pretty heavy use in the past week... Intonation wise it seems fine, my Burns is slightly off, there is an ever so slight slant to the frets down the fret board and so I am not 100% confident that it has perfect intonation even when set up well. However i have found it stays in tune pretty well considering. The Super's strings are under far less pressure in terms of angles than say a strat, so I suspect it will stay in tune much better. On a side note I also changed my AC30's Green speakers to Blues and went to Watford valves to get some replacement valves that had been properly tested. Again it took about 20 hours of playing before the new speakers settled in, now I am really pleased with the result, the Amp is much warmer and so so close to the Brian tone. |
| Togg 13.12.2013 09:02 |
OwenSmith wrote: Talking of what other guitarists play, Brian Gesh played some sort of left handed Red Special copy on the latest Queen Extravagnaza tour. I could also see an AC30 lurking at the back of the stage. It didn't sound spot on to me, not enough warmth to the sound. But the new AC30s are reckoned to be not as warm so that might be partly to blame. Anyone know what model of guitar Brian Gesh was playing? They are not as warm, and you have to do a fair bit of mucking about with them to get them right (if you want Brian's tone that is) Change the valves and speakers IMO. I think Gesh was play a 'Super' from the first production run, not 100% certain but that's what it looked like to me is some shots I have seen. The WWRY show in London uses BMG Specials plus modified AC30 Greg Fryer Amps. Brian has been heavily involved in that so the sound is pretty good IMO, He has had very little to do with the Extravagaza so I expect it's slightly different. |
| OwenSmith 13.12.2013 09:07 |
Togg wrote: I think Gesh was play a 'Super' from the first production run, not 100% certain but that's what it looked like to me is some shots I have seen. The WWRY show in London uses BMG Specials plus modified AC30 Greg Fryer Amps. Brian has been heavily involved in that so the sound is pretty good IMO, He has had very little to do with the Extravagaza so I expect it's slightly different.It's a shame Brian May hasn't helped Gesh get the sound right, because apart from that he plays very well and the style feels like Queen. Or it did to me anyway. |
| RS_Protos 13.12.2013 09:20 |
Vocal harmony, I am not trying to compare RS customs guitar with the Guyton, I was trying to explain the price difference and comparison between the new Super and the RS Customs supreme guitar. I am very familiar with the RS customs supreme and KZ pro, both great guitars, haven't played the Guyton but i know it's the best! Yes, RS customs had an issue with one of the gutiars, with the neck, I've read it before, but I've also read some issues with some of the supers, so goes both ways, things happen to all type of guitars. KZ's super rs guitars were top notch, the new super no way, have you compared them? I see mistakes that shouldn't happen with all that official endorsement, r&d, etc Take a closer look and do a comparison between the original rs, the kz super and the new super, i bet you won't miss the mistakes, unexcusable mistakes! The BMG company were very lucky before with the supers because of KZ, one of the best craftman in my opinion. |
| Togg 13.12.2013 10:52 |
RS_Protos wrote: Vocal harmony, I am not trying to compare RS customs guitar with the Guyton, I was trying to explain the price difference and comparison between the new Super and the RS Customs supreme guitar. I am very familiar with the RS customs supreme and KZ pro, both great guitars, haven't played the Guyton but i know it's the best! Yes, RS customs had an issue with one of the gutiars, with the neck, I've read it before, but I've also read some issues with some of the supers, so goes both ways, things happen to all type of guitars. KZ's super rs guitars were top notch, the new super no way, have you compared them? I see mistakes that shouldn't happen with all that official endorsement, r&d, etc Take a closer look and do a comparison between the original rs, the kz super and the new super, i bet you won't miss the mistakes, unexcusable mistakes! The BMG company were very lucky before with the supers because of KZ, one of the best craftman in my opinion. -------- How have you seen the new 'Super' there are only 10 in the world...? Do you have one? there have been no pictures anywhere other than mine No 3 here. This is the first of a new run, none have been made since KZ three years ago. The new run is no different to the KZ, so if you saw mistakes it would have been in the KZ run. The woodwork in the new run is actually better IMO than that of the previous version, it comes from the same team that built PRS' guitars. |
| mikeryde 13.12.2013 11:15 |
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| mikeryde 13.12.2013 11:15 |
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| Togg 13.12.2013 11:16 |
One other element to Brian's tone that is often overlooked is his chorus / phaser. I would say 50% of his tone comes from the AC30, 40% from the guitar and 10% from the treble booster. However somewhere in that mix is the sixpence and the chorus pedal. I have struggled for years to get the same sound from a chorus/phaser. I know he uses an old Boss CE2 pedal I think, I have a CE3... But I have never read how he sets it? The best I have seen is on the old Star lick video where he goes through each bit of equipment, he demos the chorus but we dont get to see how it's set. I have never red anything much about it, does anyone have more info? |
| mikeryde 13.12.2013 11:18 |
"How have you seen the new 'Super' there are only 10...? Do you have one? there have been no pictures anywhere other than mine here. The new run is no different to the KZ, so if you saw mistakes it would have been in the KZ run. The woodwork in the new run is actually better IMO than that of the previous version, it comes from the same team that built PRS' guitars." I agree that the new Super has some obvious errors... they can be seen in your pictures Togg. I suggested earlier that you look at: link Your pictures have been discussed at length. |
| mikeryde 13.12.2013 11:30 |
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| mikeryde 13.12.2013 11:31 |
Ok, some of the errors that can be seen in the photo... - Screw near middle pickup in wrong position - Bevelling on plastics incorrect - Acorn nut on too small, wrong shape - Scratch plate is wrong shape in places - Finger-board isn't lacquered I must stress that haven't played the guitar or seen it in the flesh but I would expect more in terms of the cosmetics. There is really little excuse for BMG not at least getting this guitar as accurate as the KZ-Fryer model. [This board interface is crap!] |
| MercuryArts 13.12.2013 11:35 |
She's beautiful Togg! Enjoy every moment playing her. |
| Togg 13.12.2013 12:22 |
mikeryde wrote: Ok, some of the errors that can be seen in the photo... - Screw near middle pickup in wrong position - Bevelling on plastics incorrect - Acorn nut on too small, wrong shape - Scratch plate is wrong shape in places - Finger-board isn't lacquered I must stress that haven't played the guitar or seen it in the flesh but I would expect more in terms of the cosmetics. There is really little excuse for BMG not at least getting this guitar as accurate as the KZ-Fryer model. [This board interface is crap!] I noticed the screw as soon as it was out of the case, later too I saw the Scratch plate shape, not sure why they went down that road, but frankly I'm not that bothered about it. I had a long conversation about the neck with Barry months ago, they found they were getting issues with the Lacqued neck as it ever so slightly shrank or rather the wood did, so this is what they came up with. Barry was at pains to point it out before I bought it. It's a shame I agree and the thing I would change above all others, that being said it plays very well and maybe over time they will amend this and go back to lacquered neck again. It feels much nicer to play than the 'specials' neck so I'm ok with it. I did try to register with the Red Special board but so far I've not got on, It will be interesting to see what's been said, there are many RS fanatics out there so I can imagine it will be a source of hot debate... |
| mikeryde 13.12.2013 12:33 |
Yes, I understand the issues regarding lacquering a Rosewood or Ebony fingerboard. The oil in these woods tends to lift the lacquer compared to using black painted oak (as BM has). I'm sure your guitar plays beautifully and this was not an attempt to 'dis' your guitar. I have one of the first prototypes of the KZ_Fryer Supers (no. 3) which also has an unlacquered fingerboard. If it's any consolation, Brian's Super (no.1... Greg Fryer has no. 2) is identical; i.e. it has an unlacquered fingerboard! |
| RS_Protos 13.12.2013 13:18 |
Same here, no attempt to 'dis' your guitar, just wanted you to be aware which your are. You said it right, we are too many RS fanatics out there, lol, but it's a lot of fun, join the RS forum and you'll see. Have fun and enjoy your new RS! |
| Tboyj 14.12.2013 05:08 |
What brand is the case? Looks nice. |
| musicland munich 15.12.2013 00:55 |
...how the "original" was done (english)...come on look for your glasses :) |
| musicland munich 15.12.2013 00:55 |
sorry double post. |
| musicland munich 15.12.2013 00:58 |
...part two |
| Bluesman 15.12.2013 10:25 |
Guys I can only restate the invitation of Mike Ryde to join our forum on link Perhaps you can share some more pics and details with us. |
| musicland munich 15.12.2013 14:18 |
I think I am in need of a new scanner :) Here is a test report from a german magazine. It's about the second "guild" series from 1994 wich was limited to 1000 copies. |
| OwenSmith 15.12.2013 14:43 |
musicland munich wrote: I think I am in need of a new scanner :) Here is a test report from a german magazine. It's about the second "guild" series from 1994 wich was limited to 1000 copies.That picture is so hard to read I'm not 100% certain that all the text is in German. You really do need a real scanner, these look like digital photos. |
| musicland munich 15.12.2013 21:56 |
I am in posession of a real scanner but it didn't work with Windows7 :( ...was fine with XP, but I don't use it anymore. They look like digital photos cause they are. |
| Togg 16.12.2013 04:04 |
mikeryde wrote: Yes, I understand the issues regarding lacquering a Rosewood or Ebony fingerboard. The oil in these woods tends to lift the lacquer compared to using black painted oak (as BM has). I'm sure your guitar plays beautifully and this was not an attempt to 'dis' your guitar. I have one of the first prototypes of the KZ_Fryer Supers (no. 3) which also has an unlacquered fingerboard. If it's any consolation, Brian's Super (no.1... Greg Fryer has no. 2) is identical; i.e. it has an unlacquered fingerboard! ------- Funny you say that, I was watching the Cosmos tour video at the weekend and I noticed that Brian's Super had the same fingerboard as mine, then I spotted the Jamies was lacquered. |
| Togg 16.12.2013 04:06 |
Bluesman wrote: Guys I can only restate the invitation of Mike Ryde to join our forum on http://www.red-special.com/forum/index.php Perhaps you can share some more pics and details with us. ---- I have been trying to register on that board for a week and so far no luck, each time I do the notice comes back that an administrator will turn the account live, but nothing happens... |
| Togg 16.12.2013 04:13 |
Here's a pic of the bridge, notice when I first opened the case the bottom two strings were slightly off the rollers, I didn't spot that until after I took the shot. |
| Togg 16.12.2013 04:15 |
A shot in the case with the personally signed by Brian certificate |
| Togg 16.12.2013 04:16 |
Serial number |
| Togg 16.12.2013 04:19 |
Close up of Bridge with strings slipped off, God know's why I didn't spot that.... |
| Togg 16.12.2013 07:50 |
mikeryde wrote: Yes, I understand the issues regarding lacquering a Rosewood or Ebony fingerboard. The oil in these woods tends to lift the lacquer compared to using black painted oak (as BM has). I'm sure your guitar plays beautifully and this was not an attempt to 'dis' your guitar. I have one of the first prototypes of the KZ_Fryer Supers (no. 3) which also has an unlacquered fingerboard. If it's any consolation, Brian's Super (no.1... Greg Fryer has no. 2) is identical; i.e. it has an unlacquered fingerboard! ---- I see from your website that you have a fair old collection of RS's How does the Guyton sound compared to the others? Is there a marked difference? or if subtle what are the things that distinguish it from the Super? |
| Togg 17.12.2013 04:32 |
Bluesman wrote: Guys I can only restate the invitation of Mike Ryde to join our forum on http://www.red-special.com/forum/index.php Perhaps you can share some more pics and details with us. --- Not sure if that board just admin folk but so far trying to register has been pants... tried four times, sent an email to the admin team.... nothing...... |
| Togg 17.12.2013 05:25 |
One final shot taken outside in direct sun light showing the true colour better. |
| inu-liger 17.12.2013 05:28 |
Togg wrote:Yeah, they literally take forever to approve new accounts. No frigging clue why.Bluesman wrote: Guys I can only restate the invitation of Mike Ryde to join our forum on http://www.red-special.com/forum/index.php Perhaps you can share some more pics and details with us. --- Not sure if that board just admin folk but so far trying to register has been pants... tried four times, sent an email to the admin team.... nothing...... |
| OwenSmith 17.12.2013 06:44 |
Togg wrote: One final shot taken outside in direct sun light showing the true colour better.Definitely redder than the original RS, the sunlight really shows this. Thanks. |
| mikeryde 18.12.2013 11:58 |
"I see from your website that you have a fair old collection of RS's How does the Guyton sound compared to the others? Is there a marked difference? or if subtle what are the things that distinguish it from the Super?" Yes, I've a few RSs (and have owned quite a few others over the years). The Guyton is very similar to the 'Old Lady', especially in look and feel. I was lucky enough to play the original (through my rig) at the 2011 RS meetup and had a good opportunity to compare it with my Guyton. I've also made some changes to my Guyton in order to make it even closer to the original. I will have a chat with admin on the RS Board to find out what's happening. |
| OwenSmith 18.12.2013 12:24 |
Wow, you got to play Brian's original Red Special if I understand what you wrote above. That's pretty special. |
| mikeryde 18.12.2013 12:30 |
Yes, I played the original RS. Pete Malandrone (Brian's guitar tech) was invited to our forum meetup. It was certainly a 'Bucket List' moment for me! |
| Togg 19.12.2013 03:59 |
Very cool, I heard he came along, There was an RS meet up not far from me a few years back, I was hoping to make it but sadly I was traveling on business at the time. Quick question Mike, I see you used Marshall Power Brakes on the AC30's, do they change the tone much? and do you find they make the tubes blow faster? |
| mikeryde 19.12.2013 08:30 |
The Marshall PBs do change they sond in that they stop the speakers 'breaking-up' (as they restrict the power-amp level). They also affect the amp tone especially on the highest level of attenuation, but they are probably the 'least-worse' that I've tried! By the way I've been told by the RS forum admin that you have been given access. |
| scottspecial 19.07.2014 09:11 |
Is the new red special super made in the Czech Republic available yet then? There is nothing on Brian may guitars website? |
| Vocal harmony 19.07.2014 09:58 |
scottspecial wrote: Is the new red special super made in the Czech Republic available yet then? There is nothing on Brian may guitars website?It's been available since December last year, but as with the earlier Super, BMG don't seem to be in a hurry to promote it. In fact I emailed Barry Morehouse, the guy in charge To enquire about it and received nothing in response. It's almost an under the counter product psssst, av you gotta Super I could buy! |
| BradF 15.07.2016 11:23 |
I just ordered by Super a couple weeks or so ago. I was told it would be ready for shipment in September. I'm really hoping they have this issue with the tremolo arm sorted out... |
| Zodiacal_light 17.07.2016 14:29 |
Can someone tell me why they use that stupid cheap looking Wikinson roller bridge with the Super? I'm not being funny but its really looks ridiculous and out of place Why not a copy of the original? It all looks superb apart from that. It ruins what could be a complete masterpiece |
| Vocal harmony 18.07.2016 04:09 |
The Wilkinson roller bridge is a great affordable and easier to set up unit than the original BM design. The other alternative would be a Schaller Roller bridge as used by Guild in early 90's. Both these units are massed produced affordable and work. The original BM design works very well but is time consuming to fit and has no easy method of setting up. The BM units consists of six individual saddles screwed directly to the body, the only hight adjustment is by removal of the saddle and adding a shim under it and then reassembling. Likewise the rollers use an "axle" pin which sits in grooves in the top of the saddle. The only method of intonation (back and forth) adjustment is by removing the string and lifting the roller out of it's slot and moving it back or forward. Also breaking strings while playing risks a roller popping out and being lost. Brian's guitar design was great and it did many things guitars at the time couldn't do, but the one place it failed is in ease of adjustment and setup. One of the reasons, apart from the body construction, that the Super is affordable is because the Wilkinson bridge only needs two holes drilled for the posts it sits on and then can be easily adjusted compared to the six holes and times consuming figment of an original style BM bridge. Of course if your that worried about the look, you could by a Super and retro fit a BM bridge or approach someone like Dansen guitars who build very nice replica guitars with the BM bridge. |
| Togg 18.07.2016 05:29 |
The Super bridge actually works very well, you can set the intonation very accurately, but if you are after the 'correct' look retro fitting isnt that hard, you can buy pickguards and bridges fairly easily. As with all things when you are talking mass production even if its 100 guitars or less you have to look at cost, building the accurate bridge would cost significantly more adding to the overall price of the guitar possibly pushing it over the point people would buy it. Personally I suspect the type of people that have bought this guitar would have paid slightly more for a truly authentic version but BMG didnt think so. |