| Thistle 05.12.2013 15:57 |
link R.I.P cue the benefit gig :) |
| pittrek 06.12.2013 04:47 |
Weird carrier. First a lawyer, then a terrorist., then a communist, a prisoner, a human rights fighter, an anti-AIDS fighter ... Anyway you could expect that a 95 years old man won't live long with his health problems |
| thomasquinn 32989 06.12.2013 05:32 |
Expected, but still very sad. I don't think anyone could have handled the transition of South Africa better, with less bloodshed. @pittrek: if you're going to call him a terrorist, you'd better educate yourself on the situation at the time. It was an all-out civil war, with the ANC fighting against the National Party, which committed a hundredfold more crimes, including raids on neighboring countries. As for being a communist - that was only ever a slur used by his enemies, much as American conservatives call Obama a communist. All over the internet, the racist scum is swarming out of the woodwork to sing barely disguised songs of praise to apartheid and bigotry. That's the saddest part by far. |
| The Real Wizard 06.12.2013 10:24 |
I can't better words than Brian May, so cue the doc.. "Mandela was the most inspiring man of his generation. His message, by example, was the power of forgiveness. He showed us that it's possible to act after great injustice with no thought of revenge. He was light, funny, enormously generous, and, quietly, the greatest example to the world that a man can be." ^ I'll take these words over the tributes of any of these slimy politicians who are cut from the same venomous cloth Mandela fought for so many years against. RIP Madiba. |
| pittrek 06.12.2013 14:10 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Expected, but still very sad. I don't think anyone could have handled the transition of South Africa better, with less bloodshed. @pittrek: if you're going to call him a terrorist, you'd better educate yourself on the situation at the time. It was an all-out civil war, with the ANC fighting against the National Party, which committed a hundredfold more crimes, including raids on neighboring countries. As for being a communist - that was only ever a slur used by his enemies, much as American conservatives call Obama a communist. All over the internet, the racist scum is swarming out of the woodwork to sing barely disguised songs of praise to apartheid and bigotry. That's the saddest part by far.Hi, terrorism is by definition spreading fear for achieving a goal. Any goal. Nationalist goals, religious goals, political goals, ecological goals, whatever. It doesn't automatically include killing people. And yes, Mandela was in a certain period of his life a terrorist. Even when the targets of him and his organization were not civilians, but factories and infrastructure. He even was on a terrorist list till 2008 for his former actions. I can't judge him for his past, simply because I have no idea what would I do on his place, but the truth is he was what he was. Communist - hard to say. He definitely was a leftist, admired the Soviet Union, many of his closest friends and colleagues were commies, but he never joined the party, there's no proof for that AFAIK, What I was trying to say my original post (sorry it didn't came through) is that even when he started "on the incorrect side", he managed to change his life and become one of the most influential freedom fighters, fighter against racism and fighter against AIDS spreading. Brian summed his character in his post-prison days perfectly : "He showed us that it's possible to act after great injustice with no thought of revenge." |
| tero! 48531 06.12.2013 15:02 |
pittrek wrote:What I was trying to say my original post (sorry it didn't came through) is that even when he started "on the incorrect side", he managed to change his life and become one of the most influential freedom fighters, fighter against racism and fighter against AIDS spreading. Brian summed his character in his post-prison days perfectly : "He showed us that it's possible to act after great injustice with no thought of revenge."On the incorrect side, by being a lawyer? :/ I'd say that your original point is completely absurd, as none of those things contradict the others if you take a look at the list. Lawyer "terrorist" / freedom fighter communist prisoner human rights fighter anti-AIDS fighter It would be almost impossible to find a man with such a consistent career of standing up for the oppressed and weak, dedicating your entire life to it, and sacrificing your own comfort in doing so. Mandela being on the US terrorist list proves just how ridiculous their definition of terrorism is, and communist being used a derogatory term shows just how materialistic and selfish the world has become. And you should be ashamed of making such a ridiculous post in the first place. |
| Mr.Jingles 06.12.2013 21:40 |
Come to think of it, if Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, so were George Washington, Simon Bolivar, William Wallace... just to mention a few. |
| tero! 48531 07.12.2013 01:56 |
It's one thing to put someone on a terrorist list at the time of violent actions, and quite another to keep him in there decades afterwards. William Wallace, George Washington, or Simón Bolivar are treated as freedom fighters instead of terrorists because they (or their side) reached an agreement with the opposing side to end the hostilities. Just like Mandela did. The fact that Mandela was released from prison in an effort to make peace, and the fact that he and De Klerk together managed to end the apartheid government peacefully demonstrates that he should not be labeled as a terrorist anymore, but as a freedom fighter. (Obviously you can't change the title in old documents, but there certainly was no reason to list him as a terrorist in the 1990's!!) |
| thomasquinn 32989 07.12.2013 04:51 |
Calling Mandela a terrorist and a communist is nothing short of taking the propaganda of apartheid South Africa at face value. Interesting detail: every single president and prime minister of apartheid-era South Africa up to (but not including) F.W. De Klerk had been a member of pro-nazi terrorist groups (notably Ossewabrandwag) during WWII, and a number of them had been proven to have committed murders for the nazis. So, who are the terrorists here? If you consider Mandela a terrorist, the logical conclusion is that resistance fighters during World War II were also terrorists. As were all people who fought against colonialism. As, like Mr.Jingles pointed out, were all American revolutionaries. As for Mandela's involvement with communism - he was as much a communist as Martin Luther King. They both associated with communists for one reason: communists were the only ones who were willing to help them. In the 1950s, despite latter-day propaganda, neither Republicans nor Democrats were willing to lift a finger to fight the excesses of Southern racist oppression aside from some lip-service in Washington (it wasn't until LBJ got into office that meaningful action was taken. Eisenhower and Kennedy did nothing useful). Mandela had to rely on the only political party represented in the South African parliament that helped black people - the marginal communist party. It's the same thing with Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam - he wasn't a dedicated communist at all. In fact, he modeled his declaration of independence on the American one, and only after being completely ignored by the Americans for over a decade did he attempt to get support from the Soviet Union, who were a hell of a lot smarter than the Americans by supporting him, thus gaining a somewhat reluctant ally. I can't blame you for not understanding apartheid South Africa. My mother grew up in South West Africa, which was illegally occupied by South Africa at the time, so I have a somewhat closer view of the situation. There has never been anything closer to nazi Germany than apartheid-era South Africa since WWII. It was a terror-state that brainwashed its citizens and used extreme violence and repression. I regret very much that the ANC used violence, but they had no choice whatsoever, as before the mid-80s, all attempts at diplomacy and talk were met with violence, show-trials and state-sanctioned terror. Did you know that South Africa actually had its army attack neighboring countries to bully them into handing over black people who had fled the country? I'm sorry pittrek, but I can only see a great deal of ignorance in your post, ignorance that is trying to hide behind a facade of reason. |
| Hangman_96 07.12.2013 14:15 |
RIP |
| mooghead 07.12.2013 15:32 |
Bruce Forsythe is now the oldest person in the world. |
| Thistle 08.12.2013 05:39 |
^ Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha |
| brENsKi 10.12.2013 14:35 |
...and did anyone see the Barack Obama/Helle Thorning-Schmidt "selfie"??? David Cameron practically breaking his neck to weasel his way into the picture....what a f*cking c*nt |
| thomasquinn 32989 11.12.2013 08:56 |
...just thought I'd mention here that David Cameron used to put up "Hang Mandela" posters when he was 'young'. I wish he *would* break his neck, that way, he could make his greatest contribution to the world: as fertilizer. |
| Thistle 11.12.2013 10:38 |
^ that's not fair TQ. Cameron was Freddie's favourite Prime Minister :p |
| Thistle 11.12.2013 10:38 |
Seriously though - totally agree with that sentiment, Thomas. |
| ParisNair 11.12.2013 13:12 |
I wonder what would have been the situation if Gandhi had died the way he did (shot three times in the chest), in the age Facebook, Twitter and 24/7 NEW FLASH. |
| brENsKi 11.12.2013 13:38 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: ...just thought I'd mention here that David Cameron used to put up "Hang Mandela" posters when he was 'young'. I wish he *would* break his neck, that way, he could make his greatest contribution to the world: as fertilizer.much as i agree that cameron is an all-round A-grade cunt, there is nothing to substantiate this claim. i really hope it would be true, but it appears that it may not be however, if you want to hang the cunt - then he did go to Sth Africa in '89 as part of a Tory fact-finding exercise to try and keep trade going with Apartheid Sth Africa, while the morally decent parts of the world (ie anyone not in thatcher's govt) were imposing trade sanctions |
| YourValentine 16.12.2013 03:14 |
Funny that nobody pulled up the "Brian's curse" thread... oops they did :) link |
| Thistle 16.12.2013 09:10 |
^ I never responded to the Brian's curse thread because it's become a tenuous joke. Not funny anymore. I hardly think that the death of a 95 year old man can be attributed, in any way, to Brian. Unless he played him The Cosmos Rocks just before he died..... |
| brENsKi 17.12.2013 15:37 |
Thistleboy1980 wrote: . I hardly think that the death of a 95 year old man can be attributed, in any way, to Brian. ....Mandela had been told (off the record) by God, that he'd live forever....so i think you'll find this is the most powerful working ever of "The Brian Curse" I'd go one step further....The Boston Red Sox live with "the babe curse" for 87 years....then suddenly win 3 WS in 8 years...my betting is sometime during spring 2004 Brian declared himself a Yankees fan :-) |
| Thistle 17.12.2013 17:14 |
^^ Which just proves that mandela was schizo: we all know that he, God and Morgan Freeman are one in the same. |