The Queen Fanthology - Chapter Two: Queen II

Jam Monkey 18.08.2013 09:34	Ok, as promised here is the second chapter in my guide to the different song versions of Queen. This time it's the second album, Queen II. If you haven't read the first thread I would suggest you check that out here: /queenzone/1355033.html. It contains a lot of background information on the project that make the chapters a little easier to read. As always, if you have any questions, additions or corrections please reply and I'll do my best to answer. My thanks to Soxtalon for proof reading this chapter.
MadTheSwine73 18.08.2013 09:57	Thanks again Jam Monkey!
Sebastian 18.08.2013 10:10	Tim confirmed there's no Smile version of 'White Queen'. A 'Queen II' version of 'Prophet's Song' has been long rumoured but never officially confirmed; 'Brighton Rock', on the other hand, has been confirmed by Brian at least twice to have been tried out for 'Queen II'.
dave76 18.08.2013 10:47	was looking forward to this. enjoyed the first one. are you gonna do all the albums?
soxtalon 18.08.2013 11:10	No problem Jam...I still come up with stuff as well...and those are excellent points Seb. I would still put Brighton Rock on the Rumor category...not because I don't believe that they tried it, but I don't know if the Brian quote meant they actually recorded a version for Queen II or if they had just worked on it together....Unless the quote (which I do vaguely remember) was more specific?
TomP63 18.08.2013 11:44	Seb wrote: A 'Queen II' version of 'Prophet's Song' has been long rumoured but never officially confirmed; I know that you're in to facts, a lot in to fact, and I really enjoy reading your input, here and on the Queen online message board. But in 1991 Simon Duckett, a man which I highly respect wrote an epic article on the Hollywood Records releases, he was "the first man" in the Queen Vaults. Simon did mention a "Queen II" version of The Prophet's Song, he gave a detailed view on how the song developed into what turned out the be on the Opera album. I can't believe that Simon Duckett just wrote a shitty article, based on nothing. All the articles Simon wrote for Record Collector and other magazines are written by Simon as a man with great knowledge and based on what he knows, and from a fan's point of view, as he is a huge Queen fan. Whatever happend to Simon? And Jam, thank you for your article for this album! Tom
DLCVinnuendo 18.08.2013 12:13	excellent text!!!
C_Matt 18.08.2013 14:09	Hey, man! Thank you very much for this!
brENsKi 18.08.2013 16:08	really good stuff - about my favourite queen album...however, two major omissions - and surprised with your knowledge that you overlooked these two "rare gems" "deep ridge" and "surrender to the city" were not fakes brenski (baiting the hook - to see how many bite) :-)
pestgrid 18.08.2013 19:51	....based on...?
Sebastian 18.08.2013 22:33	TomP63 wrote:But in 1991 Simon Duckett... Yes, I know about the article in question but, for me, 'officially confirmed' is if it's straight from the horse's mouth, or if there's a recording, acetate, studio log, etc., to confirm that. For a lot of people, Mr Duckett's article's enough, and I respect that. I'm more than happy to believe there's a 'Queen II' take of 'The Prophet's Song' if (when?) I see 'official confirmation'. Until then, in my book, it could easily exist, it could easily not exist.
Jam Monkey 19.08.2013 00:48	brENsKi wrote: really good stuff - about my favourite queen album...however, two major omissions - and surprised with your knowledge that you overlooked these two "rare gems" "deep ridge" and "surrender to the city" were not fakes brenski (baiting the hook - to see how many bite) :-) That's very interesting, I await your evidence to support your claim
Rado 19.08.2013 02:52	Thank you again. you rocks ! :)
brENsKi 19.08.2013 03:00	Jam Monkey wrote: brENsKi wrote: really good stuff - about my favourite queen album...however, two major omissions - and surprised with your knowledge that you overlooked these two "rare gems" "deep ridge" and "surrender to the city" were not fakes brenski (baiting the hook - to see how many bite) :-) That's very interesting, I await your evidence to support your claim as stated - this wasn't a question of your accuracy... the last line (and smiley) were the key...and pestgrid took the bait
John S Stuart 19.08.2013 06:45	"Surrender To The City" As far as I know (It would be nice if GB confirmed), "The March of the Black Queen" was built up (or recorded) in different sections. The final section of "March of the Black Queen" is "Surrender To The City... of the fireflies..." Therefore I am not sure if whether "Surrender To The City" was an early title for "The March of the Black Queen" as a work in progress (ie: the whole song) or; if the title "Surrender To The City" only refers to the final segment/section of the song (ie: as in a single entity) before it became "a part of the whole". For example: "A New Life is Born" is recognizable as the opening section of "Breakthru", but both these musical ideas still exist in the archives as separate "bits" - even though they are now married together on album. So at one time "Surrender To The City" MAY have existed as a separate track; but as we now know that the Queen II master tape was almost over-dubbed to destruction, I think this would be very unlikely. Hence the bottom line is... "Surrender To The City" was either a working title for "March of the Black Queen", or (if indeed a short separate piece) has been incorporated into "March of the Black Queen" anyway - so is not the long lost masterpiece the hoaxers would have us believe! Phew!
Over the Field 19.08.2013 09:31	Thank you!
John S Stuart 19.08.2013 11:39	Sebastian wrote: Tim confirmed there's no Smile version of 'White Queen'. Fair enough; but it was written by Brian during the Smile period with the full intention of becoming a Smile track. If it does exists as some sort of home demo - then it certainly would be a Brian May (or collaborative) version. This may be the source of the confusion. Another example is that the Paul McCartney song "Teddy Boy" was first released on his debut solo album McCartney, in April 1970 after the Beatles disbanded but it was originally written by McCartney during the Beatles' stay in India - but it was not a Beatles song.
onedunpark 19.08.2013 11:59	Thanks again for this - a great series!
kevukuk 19.08.2013 12:19	Gonna read this right now, thanks for posting!!!
EDWOOD 19.08.2013 14:37	Reading these chapters and the large amount of information relating to alternative versions of songs, unreleased songs, demos, etc just makes me wish QP would one day seriously consider looking at (at least) sitting down and considering the anthologies. If Roger is doing it with his solo stuff (hopefully) when 'The Lot' is released, and we had the Freddie box set in 2000, why can't a full Queen anthology even be discussed within QP?
Jam Monkey 19.08.2013 16:01	Thanks everyone, some good points raised here. I think it might be a good idea to include a section at the bottom of each chapter to include songs started in (or rumoured to have started in) that album's session. E.g: Queen II: Brighton Rock, The Prophet's Song Sheer Heart Attack: Sheer Heart Attack The Game: It's a Beautiful Day Hot Space: I Go Crazy I'll have to do some digging to find the rest. Please post with your suggestions!
Adam Unger (QueenVault.com) 19.08.2013 20:54	Nice find... Ogre Battle edit on "Best 16"
rhyeking 19.08.2013 22:22	I'm guessing that the Queen 16 Best collection features a unique version of "Flick Of The Wrist," as "Tenement Funster" does not appear, but "Lily Of The Valley" does. I'm guessing the segue between FOTW and LOTV is retained, but FOTW either fades in or starts partway into the ontro? Can you confirm, Jam Monkey? And as Adam says, excellent find! I'd not heard of this release.
Jam Monkey 20.08.2013 01:37	Adam/Rhyeking: Thanks guys, I appreciate your comments. I saw the Best 16 tape on eBay a couple of years ago and took a chance it would contain something new. I've only ever seen one other copy for sale (with a different cover to my copy), so it seems fairly rare. I've not been able to confirm if it was ever released on vinyl. It does indeed contain a unique edit of Flick Of The Wrist as well, which will be included in the Sheer Heart Attack chapter. There are a couple of other major discoveries in that chapter as well. I prepared a Rare Share video on the tape. Although it's not been added the main channel yet, you can view it on my channel here: http://youtu.be/7ZHdYdufCfY
shannaschaffer 21.08.2013 11:10	Thanks again, Jam Monkey!
Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 22.08.2013 09:23	rhyeking wrote: I'm guessing that the Queen 16 Best collection features a unique version of "Flick Of The Wrist," as "Tenement Funster" does not appear, but "Lily Of The Valley" does. I'm guessing the segue between FOTW and LOTV is retained, but FOTW either fades in or starts partway into the ontro? Can you confirm, Jam Monkey? And as Adam says, excellent find! I'd not heard of this release. Sorry I am confused I know a very rare japanese promo cd with a simular title. And a Australian/Japanese compilation prirate album. Any one willing to upload a picture of Best 16 or Queen 16 best .... or whatever release it was ?
Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 22.08.2013 09:24	Ohh yes forgot , thanks for your research JM ! Nice to see these PDF files. Hope you can keep them updated... Thanks for all your time and effort.
Jam Monkey 22.08.2013 11:48	ghostwithasmile wrote: rhyeking wrote: I'm guessing that the Queen 16 Best collection features a unique version of "Flick Of The Wrist," as "Tenement Funster" does not appear, but "Lily Of The Valley" does. I'm guessing the segue between FOTW and LOTV is retained, but FOTW either fades in or starts partway into the ontro? Can you confirm, Jam Monkey? And as Adam says, excellent find! I'd not heard of this release. Sorry I am confused I know a very rare japanese promo cd with a simular title. And a Australian/Japanese compilation prirate album. Any one willing to upload a picture of Best 16 or Queen 16 best .... or whatever release it was ? There are two copies of this release. One was released in 1976 (PKG-3001).
Jam Monkey 22.08.2013 11:50	The second was released in 1978 (YLA1016E). This was a reissue with the same tracks. I own a copy of the reissue. See my video here: link Only Ogre Battle and Flick Of The Wrist are any different to the albums.
Mr.QueenFan 23.08.2013 14:05	This is another great share. Thanks for sharing your hard work, Jam Monkey. This is a great album, i love it!
dysan 24.08.2013 04:24	Another good piece. RE the Surrender To The City discussion - I think the same can be said for Deep Ridge - the segue between FTS and WQ - the sonics of that probably led to the joke title as it would require deep ridges on the LP? Fly By Night similarly could be the link from Procession to FTS? The only reason these segues have actual names is that Queen were learning their art and by SHA had sussed how to segue as parts of the song. Just my pennies worth. Also the early tape featuring a stand along FHLI could be hearsay - such as the track marking edits on some CD issues. Someone simply mistook the end section of MOTBQ as the start of FHLI and the rumour spread. I'd be happy to be proved wrong on that, more to the point of it meaning MOTBQ is also a stand alone version.
QueenFan76 24.08.2013 07:34	You know, maybe its just like Breakthru and there is a longer version. I've always thought that there was an edit between To hell with all of you hand in hand and Now its time to be gone Always figured it was different takes but maybe not...
*1queen-collector** 24.08.2013 15:08	I thought I would jump in on this, I havn't done so before but I emailed Brian 3 years ago about the vast amount of demos ect that are knocking around and that Queen were missing a trick and that they should put all of the tracks out in all forms as Youtube were doing a good job on its own and Queen were not making any money out of it. Brian did respond and the lines were that it was a good idea but at that time they did not have the time to go through all the tracks and that he was too busy with other projects like touring, putting DVDs together ect and Roger was doing the same. As it goes Island records since then did a half hearted job with the re releases ie A kind of Vision which was interesting so we do know the stuff is there, even things that have not been hijacked. The MJ stuff should be interesting although it is really a Freddie Demo not a Queen one.Maybe a full list of what is available should be compiled and sent directly to Brian so he can fully understand what they are losing.
dysan 25.08.2013 02:58	Wrong thread? :o)
*1queen-collector** 25.08.2013 08:54	not really wrong thread, you want these songs to be released officially and it isn't gonna happen unless Brian and Roger get on to it, besides its all Queen related and only they can say what is correct and what isn't.
Lord Fickle 26.08.2013 16:30	With regards the early cassette version of QII possibly having a stand-alone 'Funny How Love Is', I wonder how that would have left the ending of MOTBQ?
dysan 08.09.2013 04:24	One thing I'd like to ask - has there ever been any discussion about the Robin Cable Larry Lurex session? I like to think FHLI was also done while they were doing the single and held back for the second album. Of course, as he was house engineer he could quite easily have been involved in separate sessions a year apart and perhaps was actively asked to record one specific song (FHLI) to get that same feel as the LL single, but there is something about FHLI that is just too similar to the LL tracks (even the slightly helium Freddie vox) that makes me wonder if it wasn't at least started at the same time - perhaps as a bargaining chip - 'yes, I'll sing on this as long as we can do one of our own' as we know they were hussling for studio time then and FHLI is thrown away enough to have been knocked off quickly and hence buried at the end of Queen II.
mooghead 08.09.2013 05:19	Another thing about Queen II - nearly all the lead vocal from beginning to end is double tracked. Plus Brian's trademark echo solo is present - particularly in Father to Son (amongst other places)
slithybill 24.10.2013 09:54	Thanks for this! I'm finally getting around to downloading it.
br5946 04.01.2014 09:38	I'm trying to form a similar anthology of sorts, but with all clear studio bootlegs - i.e. not 'Property of Queen Productions' convention tapes. As Surrender to the City seems to be a clue I'm looking for, I have two questions for fellow QZ'ers - I have three instrumental takes of 'Black Queen' that are labelled as takes 3, 4 & 5. Could I have stumbled across Surrender to the City? And if so, which take is it?
oliverd05 04.01.2014 11:45	well i for one am very intrigued, br5946, where did you find the studio bootlegs? been looking for a very long time?! would love to hear what u have
oliverd05 04.01.2014 11:46	and to answer the question, you may have stumbled across Surrender to the city, I've heard a small number of people talking about it being a standalone track, but Freddie didnt feel the rest of the track was decent enough for the album, thats why its so short and shoved on the end of Black Queen
br5946 05.01.2014 14:26	I have indeed been looking for good-quality studio bootlegs for a while, and I came across these takes in the bootleg '1991 - The Vaults: Demos + Rare Stuff (5 CD)' which also has the infamous 1984 Thames tape on it. As it was surprisingly easy to get hold of, I imagine it's circulating widely - the Black Queen takes are in the 'CD 1' folder.
Jam Monkey 06.01.2014 01:28	br5946 wrote: I'm trying to form a similar anthology of sorts, but with all clear studio bootlegs - i.e. not 'Property of Queen Productions' convention tapes. As Surrender to the City seems to be a clue I'm looking for, I have two questions for fellow QZ'ers - I have three instrumental takes of 'Black Queen' that are labelled as takes 3, 4 & 5. Could I have stumbled across Surrender to the City? And if so, which take is it? What you have is likely to be the Takes 3-5 recording played at the 2005 UK and Dutch conventions (as detailed in the guide). Here is a copy of that convention recording so you can compare.
Rogers Untidy Bottom 06.07.2014 17:02	"Fly By Night" does not exist. As has now been confirmed by numerous sources, "Deep Ridge" and "Surrender To The City" do exist as full songs. Even John S Stuart, who called me a bullshit artist and a liar when I first mentioned this back in 2004, concedes that I was telling the truth. "Deep Ridge" sounds like Led Zep's "When The Levee Breaks" and, from memory, was between FTS and WQ. "Surrender To The City" - multiple people use the "Breakthru" example of it being part of a song that was incomplete tacked onto another one. This is true but the song was completed. It was very high tempo - just as high tempo as the fragment that still exists at the end of MOTBQ. Why FHLI (and I love that song) was chosen over STTC, you'd have to ask Brian, Roger and John. You have not really heard the brilliance of Queen II without hearing it as the original 13-track statement. The 11-track is world-class but to me still sounds incomplete.
dudeofqueen 07.07.2014 10:55	>Even John S Stuart, who called me a bullshit artist and a liar when I first mentioned this back in 2004, concedes that I was telling the truth. Where did John concede that Mr. Bottom?
Rogers Untidy Bottom 07.07.2014 12:09	Page one of this thread, Mr. Dude.
Saint Jiub 07.07.2014 18:35	Rogers Untidy Bottom wrote: Page one of this thread, Mr. Dude. Rogers Untidy Bottom - I sent you a PM.
Rogers Untidy Bottom 08.07.2014 14:56	Replied, Panchgani.
Rogers Untidy Bottom 18.08.2014 17:49	The cover-up continues with the diminishing of the two extra Queen II songs... "It’s here where the first grey area comes into view during these sessions. Famed photographer Mick Rock, who would shoot the equally famous cover photo for Queen II, notes in his book Classic Queen that a Freddie Mercury-penned track titled “Surrender To The City” was worked on during the Queen II sessions. Fan will immediately recognize the phrase as appearing in the finished recording of “The March Of The Black Queen,” so it is not a stretch to guess that there is a direct relationship between these two numbers, the exact nature of which we may never uncover. More opaque is Rock’s mention in his book of other yet-unidentified tracks, where he specifically cites two more, offering only their titles and the songwriters. They are: “Fly By Night,” said to be written by John Deacon, and “Deep Ridge,” attributed to Brian May. News of these tracks piqued the interest of fans and Queen’s Archivist Greg Brooks addressed the issue by saying, “I'm pretty sure these are only working titles for basic ideas, as that is what used to happen.” Greg goes on to add, “I base this largely upon the fact that back in 1998 I listened to ALL the Queen session recordings and there simply were not any discarded songs or related items with the titles you mention. The most likely scenario is that Deep Ridge, Fly By Night, and the like, were merely basic ideas that would or would not have been progressed/developed further to feature in songs that we all know now as tracks on the earliest albums.” (link The two songs I was ridiculed for mentioning back in 2004 have now been covered in books, on Brian May's website and a piece on Queen website by the author of the "Queen Chronology." The songs exist in their entirety. How long now before the official admission? After this is cleared up, "The Game" - the truth.
Fart Sandwiches 18.08.2014 18:19	Rogers Untidy Bottom wrote: The two songs I was ridiculed for mentioning back in 2004 have now been covered in books, on Brian May's website and a piece on Queen website by the author of the "Queen Chronology." The songs exist in their entirety. Prove it. Rogers Untidy Bottom wrote: How long now before the official admission? After this is cleared up, "The Game" - the truth. We wait with bated breath.
Rogers Untidy Bottom 18.08.2014 19:49	Fart Sandwiches wrote: Prove it. Everyone else seems intent on doing that for me. Perhaps comprehension and reading is difficult for you, love?
Fart Sandwiches 18.08.2014 21:13	Oh, you mean where the Queen archivist stated: "I base this largely upon the fact that back in 1998 I listened to ALL the Queen session recordings and there simply were not any discarded songs or related items with the titles you mention." I comprehended that part pretty well. What I meant by proving it was to upload a snippet of these songs that you've fabricated. Oh, and when are you going to upload the News of the World sessions that you mentioned in the Request forum?
slithybill 19.08.2014 01:58	The March of the Black Queen is the only song on the album that is credited to being produced by Queen and Roy Thomas Baker AND Robin Cable. Cable and Queen produced Nevermore and FHLI, while Baker and Queen produced the rest. It makes sense to me that Surrender to the City was a stand alone song that was produced by Cable and was edited down and added to the end of the Baker-produced MOTBQ to give it a great ending.
cmsdrums 21.08.2014 04:24	Fart Sandwiches wrote: Oh, you mean where the Queen archivist stated: "I base this largely upon the fact that back in 1998 I listened to ALL the Queen session recordings and there simply were not any discarded songs or related items with the titles you mention." I comprehended that part pretty well. What I meant by proving it was to upload a snippet of these songs that you've fabricated. Oh, and when are you going to upload the News of the World sessions that you mentioned in the Request forum?
cmsdrums 21.08.2014 04:26	error loading post - see below!
cmsdrums 21.08.2014 04:27	Fart Sandwiches wrote: Oh, you mean where the Queen archivist stated: "I base this largely upon the fact that back in 1998 I listened to ALL the Queen session recordings and there simply were not any discarded songs or related items with the titles you mention." It's quite easy to imagine that since Greg listened to ALL the archives some 16 years ago, more tapes have surfaced. In the intervening period I'm sure that he has stated openly that they have found more stuff (for example when EMI handed stuff over to Universal). It's also common knowledge that some master tapes were 'lost' and then found again. It is therefore (to me) perfectly feasible that other stuff such as the tracks being discussed here might well have also been on reels that Greg didn't know about in 1998, but people such as Mick Rock who were around the studio A LOT at the time may know about tracks that Greg didn't. When the first 5.1 mix for ANATO was produced they cheated with an upmix of God Save The Queen cos they couldn't find the multi track. They then later confessed to finding it on a previous Queen II reel. So, the first ANATO 5.1 mix was produced in 2001,with a revised mix by Brian in 2002, and a further release in 2005; this 2005 release has God Save The Queen for the first time from master tape, and so that tape (or the existence of that track on it) was clearly discovered between 2002 and 2005. This therefore gives the following options:; 1) The Queen II master reel with God Save The Queen on was not located in the archives when the ANATO work was done (and therefore not there previously in 1998 when Greg checked it ALL) 2) The reel WAS in the archives but Greg failed to listen to the end of the tape properly and so missed it 3) Greg DID listen to the tapes properly but cocked up actually archiving them and recording the contents 4) Greg was lying about the existence of other tracks and they were known about in 1998 Though not directly related to Queen II, Interesting article here: link The following is very interesting and discusses the different 5.1 mixes of ANATO : link
Sebastian 07.12.2014 02:34	Nice thread.
Benn Kempster 08.12.2014 05:54	cmsdrums, re: >4) Greg was lying about the existence of other tracks and they were known about in 1998 SURELY not.........? My goodness, I'd never considered THAT option....... ;-)

QueenZone discussion #1355760

The Queen Fanthology - Chapter Two: Queen II