QueenZone discussion #1354562
Queen Myths People Tend to Swallow
| Sebastian 03.08.2013 12:33 |
You see the sun rising and then setting. If you didn't know better you'd think the earth doesn't move and the sun is actually revolving around it, because that's what logic and perception indicate, right? In fact, 99% of people believed so for 99% of the time humans have existed (i.e. from ca. the year -50K until roughly half a millennium ago), and it doesn't mean they're stupid, it just means they hadn't discovered yet that it's (mostly) the other way around and that senses trick us into perceiving things otherwise. It's the same when people (possibly including you, dear reader) assume you catch a cold by being outdoors in ... well, cold weather; or that mice and rats have some odd cheese addiction; or that mediaeval people's life expectancy was 30; or that Napoleon was a dwarf, sushi's synonymous with raw fish, elephants predict their own death and go to a graveyard, lemmings commit mass suicide, bulls get pissed off by the colour red, bats are blind, nails and hair keep growing after death, shaving results in hair getting thicker, the list goes on. It happens in the Queensphere as well: things that would seem logical and which you see 'confirmed' by infallible sources such as ... wait for it ... wait for it... the internet (where it's utterly impossible to find false info, right?). Without further ado, here's my top ten: --------- No 10: Roger played drums on We Will Rock You The famous boom-boom-tish is one of the best-know drumming patterns ever... even on a specialised publication such as Modern Drummer they asked Roger (October 1984 issue) about the kind of sticks he'd used. Both him and Brian (e.g., Guitar World, October 2002) have cleared up that the song has no drums but somehow the legend continues. Why people believe it: Well, it'd be logical to think those loud noises come from bass-drum and/or floor toms plus snare. That's the way it's been done on stage by Roger, so if you've been to (or watched on YT) any concert or event where the artist's labelled as Queen or Queen+..., you've seen him playing the beat on drums. But in fact...: There are no drums on that recording. The sound in question, probably inspired by John Lennon's Give Peace a Chance, was made by getting loads of people to stomp and clap and then multi-track and add delays. The sound Brian May (the track's composer, lyricist, arranger and producer) and Mike Stone (engineer) obtained was so unique and distinctibe it's been impossible to accurately replicate ever since, so loads of people just sample it, including Brian May, Roger Taylor and Paul Rodgers (under the moniker Queen + Paul Rodgers). ------- No 9: Brian composed the guitar parts for Bijou Queen were much more than Rock You, Champions, Ga Ga, Break Free and Magic (oh, and the one with the Galileos), they also had some wonderful tracks on their studio albums. Bijou is quite popular in the fandom and for guitar lovers, as two thirds of the track are guitar solos. People assume guitar hero Brian May wrote those lines but, surprise surprise, he didn't: Freddie Mercury was the chief creator, as confirmed by Brian May himself at least twice (his own website in February 2004 and Guitar Player in November 2007). Why people believe it: People assume guitarists write all guitar parts, bassists write all bass parts, keyboardists write all keyboard parts, etc. Moreover, non-musicians (which is easily 99% of the public anyway) tend to believe that to compose/arrange something, you have to be able to play it. As Freddie wasn't a professional guitarist, they logically think only Brian would be capable of writing those guitar parts. But in fact...: Playing and composing are different disciplines. It's not restricted to classical music and soundtracks: Paul McCartney often wrote bits for John and George to play; Kansas' Kerry Livgren ,excellent guitarist and keyboardist, didn't play any bowed strings but he still composed, not for note, the violin, viola and cello solos that Robby Steinhart played; Don Felder from Eagles scored drum, bass, keyboard and guitar parts for his bbandmates to play. Freddie didn't have the technical ability to play Bijou on guitar but he had the creativity and composing skills to come up with the lines, sing them and have Brian to mimick them on his six-string. ---- No 8: Freddie was a shitty guitarist When you hear the name Freddie Mercury, you don't automatically picture him playing guitar, do you? Well... for loads of music buyers/listeners with black & white mentality (of which there are many), people who aren't guitar heroes automatically belong to the group of 'shitty guitarists' and there's no middle ground. Freddie's guitar skills are thought to be minimal, but he was actually quite a good player. Why people believe it: Freddie rarely played guitar in studio recordings and only played live on one song, which was quite an easy one, by the way. Freddie was self-deprecating of his guitar skills and claimed he could only play three chords. But in fact...: 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love' has six chords, so he debunked his own myth every night the band performed live between late 1979 and 1986. As his bandmates have confirmed, he could play well and would sometimes write on guitar. Of course he wasn't nearly as good as Brian, but that doesn't mean he sucked - a 6 ft tall man is not the tallest person in the world (not even top 100,000), but it doesn't make him a dwarf. Roger Taylor was also a good guitarist. All four band members played guitar at some point. --- No 7: Roger wrote Under Pressure When Queen and David Bowie released Under Pressure in 1981, it was credited to the five of them, but people soon started speculating who the actual (chief) author was. Roger's often unofficially credited for it even though he wasn't involved in the song's creation at all. Why people believe it: He used to sing it in his solo tours, and Under Pressure shares some chords with Feel Like, an unreleased demo which, according to Wikipedia, Roger wrote. But in fact...: There's no official confirmation or even suggestion that Roger wrote Feel Like; it could easily be his and it could just as easily be John's, Freddie's or Brian's; Roger sang I Want to Break Free, We Will Rock You and Show Must Go On on solo concerts, none of which he wrote. Under Pressure was, in fact, a collaboration between Freddie and David, but got credited to all five as it originated from a jam session. The bass-line, by the way, was written by Bowie. ---- No 6: Freddie hardly wrote anything in his last years. Freddie's health started to visibly deteriorate since late 80's, which didn't stop him from working. Fans and connoisseurs alike often understandably praise his voice and his determination to keep singing until the very end, but few know that he was also composing, arranging and producing alongside his vocal and keyboard duties. Why people believe it: People incorrectly assume that an ailing AIDS patient is incapable of writing songs; while the disease certainly makes the body become weaker and affects all areas, it doesn't mean it disables the ability to create. With people close to him commenting he was asking his bandmates to write him 'anything', people often misinterpreted it as Freddie being solely a performer of the later day works, not a songwriter. But in fact...: Freddie was the dominant songwriter for 'The Miracle' album (being chiefly responsible for nearly half of the songs they included there), 'Innuendo' (where he was the main writer on over half of it) and *all* of the post-Innuendo creations included on 'Made in Heaven' (there were three: he wrote one with Brian, one with John and one by himself). A determined consummate musician indeed. but not just as a singer. ------ |
| Sebastian 03.08.2013 12:34 |
No 5: Brian sang the low vocals. Three-part harmonies are common in famous bands and groups. Usually one person sings the top line, another one sings the middle and the other one sings the bottom part. You get people like The Beatles (sans Ringo, usually), The Bee Gees, Yes, The Who (sans Keith, usually), etc., as examples. Why people believe it: When performing on stage, Queen used to do exactly that (Roger/Freddie/Brian from the top), leading to people incorrectly believing Brian was the 'bass' singer and that all the low vocals found on the records were sung by him. But in fact...: If A can sing higher than B, it doesn't necessarily mean B can sing lower than A. Most Queen backing vocals in the bass register were recorded by Freddie (e.g., Bo Rhap, Somebody to Love, Leroy Brown). There were cases of Brian singing a bit low (e.g. Good Company - backing vocals), but those were usually brief and not too low anyway. In fact even Roger sang lower than Brian on several occasions (e.g. Action This Day, he's doing a three-part including some really low notes on the bass). ----- No 4: Roger was replaced by machines in the later days. The frequent use of electronics in commercially-available music meant that many songs are made with actual 'analogue' instrumentation being reduced or even eliminated, as synths, sequencers, samplers, machines and computers allowed a quick and inexpensive way to record. Why spend two hours setting up and micing a drum kit when you can press a couple of buttons or click a mouse and generate perfectly quantised rhythm tracks in seconds? Most people won't notice and won't care anyway. That's not to say drummers have become extinct; far from it, but a lot of them have indeed been replaced by programming. Roger's often thought to be one of them in the late 80's and early 90's, but he wasn't. Why people believe it: Roger was in two bands at the same time (in the other one, he was the singer and rhythm guitarist, not the drummer), the sound of the drums changed a lot in those years compared to the 'old' Queen days (or even the Mack era of 1979-1986) and it was trendy to use MIDI drums as well as Linn machines. But in fact...: Most drums on 'The Miracle', 'Innuendo' and 'Made in Heaven' are real. Some things are indeed programmed such as 'Delilah', 'All God's People' (except the middle bit) and 'Mother Love', but for the most part Roger was actually playing, and playing quite well... so well, that people often think it's machines (e.g. 'Days of Our Lives', where the conga percussion is in fact programmed but drums are real). ------ No 3: Freddie wrote 'Bicycle Race' in France Even people with some rudimentary knowledge of Queen tend to pinpoint some of their biggest hits and where they were written: 'Innuendo' and 'Under Pressure' in Montreux (Switzerland), 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love' in Munich, 'Bicycle Race' in France ... wait, no, it wasn't! Freddie actually wrote it in Switzerland. Why people believe it: It sounds logical: Freddie wrote it inspired by the Tour de France, and part of the 'Jazz' album was recorded at Super Bear Studios in the south of ... yeah, you guessed it, France. But in fact: Despite its name, the Tour de France is not just France; in fact, that year it kicked off in the Netherlands and on 19th July (Brian's 31st birthday) it went through Montreux in Switzerland, where the band were. By the time the tour ended (on 23rd July) the band were still in Switzerland, as evidenced by them hosting birthday parties for both Roger (26th July) and John (19th August) there. They moved to France around September, long after the tour had ended. ------ No 2: Brian was the mastermind behind 'Made in Heaven' With Freddie out of the picture, literally, Brian's taken a de-facto role as leader and 'face' of Queen (however you choose to define it) for the last twenty-plus years. People assume that it was he who masterminded the 'Made in Heaven' project, when in fact his contribution, huge as it was, was no bigger than Roger's or John's, both of whom, in fact, worked much more on it, as Brian missed out almost a year of its sessions embarking on his solo career. Why people believe it: Brian's a magnificent musician and a great producer, so it seems logical that he was the leader, especially without Freddie to counteract him. But in fact...: Roger and John began the project in 1993 using old tapes from Freddie's piano and voice, and Brian refused to participate as he was busy pursuing his solo career and telling people in no uncertain terms that he wasn't interested in Queen. Once his solo tour finished with very limited success compared to what he could achieve as 1/4 of Queen (or 1/3, or 1/2, depending on how you look at it), he coincidentally decided to join John and Roger and the three of them continued with the project until summer 1995, when they delivered the album to be mixed, mastered and finally released near the end of the year. ------ No 1: John was the mastermind behind Hot Space. 'Hot Space' is by far the most controversial Queen album because of its very limited financial success, its disco flavour and the fact it's hated (or at least, not loved as much as the others) by so many fans and critics. People often place the blame on John, the R&B/funk/disco member of the band, ignoring the fact he was the Queen member who was *least* involved with the album, and ignoring the fact he himself publicly stated his dislike for it. Why people believe it: 'Hot Space' was largely inspired by the success of John's 'Another One Bites the Dust', plus there's the whole four-band persona aspect where, as far as the man in the street is concerned, Freddie wrote piano ballads, Roger wrote fast songs about cars or birds and Brian was the metalhead, so John's, by default, thought to be the Disco Stu. The man in the street, moreover, isn't gonna listen to 'Body Language' or 'Staying Power' and think 'hey mate, that sounds like a Roland Jupiter 8 analogue-subtractive synthesiser, which means the bass player didn't take part of this recording, he must be pissed off'; he'll usually say 'that song's got a lot of bass, that means the bassist must have written it or at least played a strong role.' But in fact...: John wrote less songs for the album than anyone else in the band (all in all, 86.36% of 'Hot Space' was NOT written by John) and his bass-playing suffered the some of the bass lines would be played on synthesiser by one of the others. Freddie sang lead on every track on the album, Brian played guitar on all songs but one, Roger played drums and/or sang backing vocals a lot, but John's bass was absent on three or four tracks (over a third of the album). |
| Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 03.08.2013 13:02 |
Okay but Boh Rhap is about aids isn't it ? That has to be true :-) |
| Garden Lodge 03.08.2013 13:21 |
Nice to see a good thread. Finally. I've been a Queen fan for 30+ years and I have to say that probably the most frequent myths that people bring up when they learn that I have a widespread and an almost sick obsession with Queen are: 1.) All in Queen were gay. Wrong. Just because it was clear (or at least apparent) that Freddie was gay people always imply that Brian, Roger and John were too. Amazing isn't? 2.)Crazy little thing was either written and /or sung by Elvis. Yes it was Elvis inspired (Rockabilly) and Freddie kind of sings like him but certainly it doesn't make it his! I've heard people swear that they had heard Elvis singing this one. 3.) After BoRhap launched lots of people wrongly assumed that all in Queen had classical music formal training for some strange reason. The operatic section perhaps? 4.) That Freddie grew a moustache just for the sole purpose of hiding his teeth. Even though this helped, the real reason was because Freedie wanted to adopt the gay clone look of the Catro district of San Francisco. Very popular look back in the 80's. Tight jeans, white wifebeater (muscle shirt), moustache, cropped hair, aviator ray bans etc… 5.) and probably the most absurd of them all: that Freddie was straight and had a wife which he hid from the public. And the whole gay and camp look was just part of his show or his stage persona. |
| mooghead 03.08.2013 14:07 |
The OP's number one is ridiculous, I never saw that coming at all and never thought John was behind Hot Space. |
| Chief Mouse 03.08.2013 15:14 |
Interesting thread. Thanks. |
| antiden 03.08.2013 15:43 |
Sebastian, you're so wrong about the credits for 'Under Pressure' bass line. John came up with it. In 'DOOL' documentary it is clearly stated by Roger. |
| Stelios 03.08.2013 17:07 |
About the myth No 1: John was the mastermind behind Hot Space. I believe it's more complex than that. Although John was not a very active composer /bass player on Hot Space that dosen't mean that he is "responsible" for 15% as you state. John and Freddie were mooving towards the black/funk area at that time so it's reasonable they influenced more the profile of the album. Songs may as well been written by Brian or Roger but i assume it was the other two that directed the orchestration/structure/production to the disco /funk genre of witch the album is infamous for. |
| Sebastian 03.08.2013 19:47 |
antiden wrote: Sebastian, you're so wrong about the credits for 'Under Pressure' bass line. John came up with it. In 'DOOL' documentary it is clearly stated by Roger.John clearly stated (1982 and 1984) that Bowie wrote the bass-line. So we have two conflicting stories, let's check the context: * The person who played it, months after having played it. * Someone who didn't play it, 30 years after the song was done. I think, for that particular case, 1982 John is far more accurate as a witness than 2011 Roger. Stelios wrote:John and Freddie were mooving towards the black/funk area at that timeSo were Brian and Roger (Dancer, Action This Day). Stelios wrote:i assume it was the other two that directed the orchestration/structure/production to the disco /funk genre of witch the album is infamous for.Not really. Orchestrations and structure are directed by the songwriter. So: Staying Power: Freddie; not John. Dancer: Brian; not John. Back Chat: John. Body Language: Freddie; not John. Action This Day: Roger; not John. Put Out the Fire: Brian; not John. Life Is Real: Freddie; not John. Calling All Girls: Roger; not John. Las Palabras de Amor: Brian; not John. Cool Cat. Freddie and John. Under Pressure: Freddie and David. Freddie clearly said (part of the interview's shown on Great Pretender documentary) that he forced the other three and that they hated him for it as the album didn't sell. So there you go: Freddie was the chief 'conductor' of the album, not Brian, not Roger and not John. |
| YourValentine 04.08.2013 06:29 |
My favourite Queen myth is the story that Freddie was booed and had things thrown at him at the 1st Rio 1985 night when he appeared on stage with the wig/false boobs for the encore. Legend has it that Freddie tore down wig and boobs and nearly burts into tear. Funnily, the existing video of the concert shows that the whole story is totally made up and never happened. Nothing was thrown and Freddie did not remove his falsies in a hurry. Still the story has survived for decades... |
| Nitroboy 04.08.2013 06:45 |
YourValentine wrote: My favourite Queen myth is the story that Freddie was booed and had things thrown at him at the 1st Rio 1985 night when he appeared on stage with the wig/false boobs for the encore. Legend has it that Freddie tore down wig and boobs and nearly burts into tear. Funnily, the existing video of the concert shows that the whole story is totally made up and never happened. Nothing was thrown and Freddie did not remove his falsies in a hurry. Still the story has survived for decades...Peter Freestone himself has said that he did have things thrown at him, so that part is true. Obviously, he didn't burst into tears, as evidenced by the video. |
| Sebastian 04.08.2013 07:47 |
Nitroboy wrote: Peter Freestone himself has said that he did have things thrown at him, so that part is true.No, it's not. Video evidence's always way more accurate than witness recollection. Witnesses can misremember, lie, exaggerate, fabricate... video shows it like it is. |
| Thistle 04.08.2013 07:54 |
Another popular "myth" is that when people don't have an accurate number when highlighting public opinion, they just express it as "99% of people" or "99% of the time".... well, actually, that's not true.....only 99% of them do. |
| Thistle 04.08.2013 07:58 |
Apart from that, excellent thread Seb - and good to see that even some of the facts you use to justify your thoughts on the matter are being challenged, too: proving that QZ CAN be a place for intellectual debate. |
| Sebastian 04.08.2013 10:12 |
Thistleboy1980 wrote: well, actually, that's not true.....only 99% of them do.And they only do it 99% of the time. |
| Thistle 04.08.2013 10:25 |
^ LOL |
| john bodega 04.08.2013 10:57 |
Hate to say it, but one myth that was definitely true was that Freddie was a tremendous racist. Think of the worst attitude towards minorities you possibly can - Freddie tops it, easily. |
| Sebastian 04.08.2013 12:19 |
Quite hypocritical coming from a twoffer token minority. |
| noorie 04.08.2013 12:23 |
Zebonka12 wrote: Hate to say it, but one myth that was definitely true was that Freddie was a tremendous racist. Think of the worst attitude towards minorities you possibly can - Freddie tops it, easily.I don't believe so since Freddie was the minority - racially and in his sexual preferences. He was a gay Parsee! Now that is a minority. |
| Sebastian 04.08.2013 17:44 |
Being in one or two minorities doesn't mean you can't be racist. Ever heard of Hitler? He proclaimed the Aryan supremacy and the archetype of tall slim blond people as superior ... yet he wasn't particularly tall (for an early 20th century Austrian), wasn't particularly athletic (for an early 20th century Austrian) and wasn't blond. |
| Thistle 04.08.2013 18:26 |
Sebastian wrote: Being in one or two minorities doesn't mean you can't be racist. Ever heard of Hitler? He proclaimed the Aryan supremacy and the archetype of tall slim blond people as superior ... yet he wasn't particularly tall (for an early 20th century Austrian), wasn't particularly athletic (for an early 20th century Austrian) and wasn't blond.True! Also, Paul Sinha from "The Chase" is in a minority - believed to be the only gay Bengali GP - yet he doesn't watch "Take On The Twisters". And it's on the same bloody channel"! You can't get more racist that that!! :p Btw Zeb, where did you get this info (Freddie the racist), or is it one of your wind-ups??? |
| Thistle 04.08.2013 18:29 |
Btw, Seb - the "myth" about catching a cold when you go out in the cold is true! Everytime I take a bath/shower, and then go out, I have a heavy cold the next morning. I know the logical thing would be to NOT to do this, but can you explain this, if it's just a "myth"?? |
| Vocal harmony 04.08.2013 19:08 |
5. Brian sang the low vocals. What you have failed to point out is that, to achieve that classic three part harmony vocal sound that was so destinctive in Queen's recordings, they would each sing each part of the harmony lines. So no one person only sang the low part or the middle or top line, they each sang a line then swapped lines which added to the depth and sonic range. I think you'll find Queen were unique in recording like this. Other bands would always have a low, middle and high singer who would only sing those parts, where as Queen, not JD, would all sing each part of the harmony. When multi tracked this produced that very distinctive thick vocal backing sound. |
| Sebastian 04.08.2013 19:45 |
Thistleboy1980 wrote: Everytime I take a bath/shower, and then go out, I have a heavy cold the next morning. I know the logical thing would be to NOT to do this, but can you explain this, if it's just a "myth"??I'm not a physician, but it could be due to different reasons (e.g., viruses in your bathtub). What cold weather could do to you, depending on the situation, is weakening your immune system and making your nasopharyngitis (which you probably already caught via droplets from another person) more noticeable. Vocal harmony wrote: So no one person only sang the low part or the middle or top line, they each sang a line then swapped lines which added to the depth and sonic range.They often did it but not always. Usually it'd be just Roger or Freddie (or both) on anything above d", and just Freddie on anything below 110-Hz A, with some exceptions. The high 'for me' on Bo Rhap is just Roger; no Freddie, no Brian. The low bass voice on the same song is just Freddie - no Brian and no Roger. The flying falsetto on '39 was just Roger, and so on. Vocal harmony wrote: I think you'll find Queen were unique in recording like this.Not really. Other people did it a lot. 10cc, ABBA (just the girls, with some exceptions), possibly Bon Jovi, etc. Not on every single song but, then again, neither did Queen. |
| DLCVinnuendo 04.08.2013 21:18 |
very godd text, the surprise for me is the part of bicycle race |
| YourValentine 05.08.2013 01:30 |
Please don't bring up Hitler to support the idea that Freddie was a racist :) I really do not believe he was more a racist than any other English person at the time, at least I never heard any proof that he was particularly racist. He tried to downplay his own family background for fear of being discriminated and not being accepted by a white Rock audience but that does not make him a racist imo. I do not want to argue about Hitler in a Queen thread but Hitler's racism was purely based on his pathological antisemitism, his "race theories" were only a vehicle to support this antisemitism and had no connection with reality or even his own racial profile. |
| YourValentine 05.08.2013 01:31 |
Please don't bring up Hitler to support the idea that Freddie was a racist :) I really do not believe he was more a racist than any other English person at the time, at least I never heard any proof that he was particularly racist. He tried to downplay his own family background for fear of being discriminated and not being accepted by a white Rock audience but that does not make him a racist imo. I do not want to argue about Hitler in a Queen thread but Hitler's racism was purely based on his pathological antisemitism, his "race theories" were only a vehicle to support this antisemitism and had no connection with reality or even his own racial profile. I do not even bellieve there is such a myth. I should not waste my time to debate it... |
| Snackpot 05.08.2013 03:08 |
I'm not sure it's a myth to say Freddie's writing tailed off. It certainly did from a commercial aspect. He went from producing prolific hit after hit to largely album filler. Unless you count the production work he did with the A Kind of Magic track then very little of his work in the last 11 years made much impact as a stand alone/singles contribution. I'm Going Slightly Mad, The Miracle etc weren't very big successes at all. I understand the retort would be that commercial success isn't an indication of quality of lyrics or song but it's not a 'myth' that there was a sudden cessation of Mercury being able to write hits. From that stand point there was a very big change as the 80s progressed. The other three became the 'popular' song writers during that time. Most of the post-Hot Space 'hits' were written by someone, unless we include some of the re-worked tracks for MIH. I also don't know how John not contributing as a writer that much to Hot Space proves anything. He never wrote that much. He only wrote one song on the previous and following album too. We know that Brian and Roger were against HS, or at least less enthusiastic. In a band that was supposedly democratic you'd have imagine that John at the very least was less hostile and more logically on Freddie's 'side' when it came to the album. So I'm not sure how this is a 'myth' either. |
| thomasquinn 32989 05.08.2013 04:36 |
Garden Lodge wrote: 2.)Crazy little thing was either written and /or sung by Elvis. Yes it was Elvis inspired (Rockabilly) and Freddie kind of sings like him but certainly it doesn't make it his! I've heard people swear that they had heard Elvis singing this one.There is actually a (recent) studio-made fake of Frank Sinatra singing CLTCL, and I think there's also one of Elvis. I picture people are going to use those in the future to 'back up' their claim... |
| The Fairy King 05.08.2013 06:08 |
The midgets with bowls of cocaine should be number 1. |
| ITSM 05.08.2013 07:00 |
I think Freddie had a lot do with Hot Space, John also. I think Freddie wanted more creative freedom - wanted to try a few things - and that's why he (later) recorded Mr. Bad Guy on his own. More "Club music." He wanted to sing/write all kinds of music, not only rock 'n' roll (no wonder with That voice, IMO). |
| Togg 05.08.2013 07:33 |
Excellent topic, nice one Seb. My fav myth which frankly I have never either proved or disproved was in a newspaper article I once had in my collection. Not sure or can't remember the concert or location but the story went that one night on tour the boys had a massive argument back stage and during the show things got pretty bad between them... so about half way through the show, Freddie got so cross with Roger that he kicked the drum kit, roger was then meant to have thrown a stick at him so he went back and knocked most of the kit on the floor, at which point he ran off to the stage left dragging john with him. The show was then stopped and the didnt return to stage. I am certain this was made up by some shitty journo who had a column to fill in the Sun, it must have been around 82 ish when I read it, I cut it out and kept it for a number of years but chucked it out a few years ago during a house move. |
| Thistle 05.08.2013 07:43 |
Sebastian wrote: |
| Thistle 05.08.2013 08:02 |
Btw guys, the "Elvis" version of CLTCL is by an Elvis impersonator, known as "The King". He is an Irish postman (true) who is apparently rated the best Elvis impersonator out there. He has two albums (I think), called "Graveland" and "Return To Splendour" - both of which are albums of cover versions, sung like Elvis. They feature stuff like Nirvana's "Come As You Are", AC/DC's "Whole Lotta Rosie", Louis Armstrong's "What A Wonderful World" and so on. Here's CTLCL on Spotify: link My dad kinda liked it when he heard it on Radio one time, so I bought him the albums lol :) It's just a bit of fun - not intended to "fool" anyone.... |
| ParisNair 05.08.2013 08:04 |
@Seb - u forgot your favorite (atleast used to be) myth about our Freddie's fav singer? (sorry Inu - i couldn't resist). |
| Sebastian 05.08.2013 09:08 |
DLCVinnuendo wrote: very godd text, the surprise for me is the part of bicycle raceBrian May himself claimed (IIRC) that it'd been in France, which is, again, an understandable mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. Roger (whose memory's not perfect but is positively eidetic compared to Brian's) correctly recalled it'd been in Switzerland. YourValentine wrote: Please don't bring up HitlerAn on-line debate without mentioning him? Come on! Snackpot wrote: I'm not sure it's a myth to say Freddie's writing tailed off. It certainly did from a commercial aspect.Yes but that applies to Queen's commercial success in general. ANATO, NOTW and The Game were their peaks in terms of sales. Works, Magic, Miracle and Innuendo couldn't top that; Made in Heaven did but it was a special circumstance (posthumous amalgamation of compilation and album). Snackpot wrote: He went from producing prolific hit after hit to largely album filler.He managed to be the chief composer of two title tracks, an OST's main theme, a medium-sized hit single... of course he also wrote album fillers but the same could be said about the others. Snackpot wrote: very little of his work in the last 11 years made much impact as a stand alone/singles contribution.Innuendo was No 1 in Britain (something no song from Brian, John or Roger achieved, unless you count the 5ive cover of WWRY in 2001). It's a Hard Life was a minor hit compared to Ga Ga or Break Free but it sold far more than the likes of One Vision and Who Wants to Live Forever (so, technically, it should've been considered for the AG compilation ahead of those two, and SSOR as well) and far more than things like Breakthru, Invisible Man, Friends Will Be Friends, Hammer to Fall, Headlong... Snackpot wrote: The other three became the 'popular' song writers during that time.Not really. Brian only wrote one big hit (IWIA) and it still sold far less than Flash and far less than the double-A singles of BR/FBG and WATC/WWRY (both of which were 50% Brian). John only wrote one big hit (IWTBF), which outsold YMBF but was far far less successful than AOBTD. Roger's output did grow in terms of success, scoring three big hits (all of which were largely arranged by someone else, though). Snackpot wrote: Most of the post-Hot Space 'hits' were written by someone, unless we include some of the re-worked tracks for MIH.Not including MIH and the Bo Rhap re-release as double A with either TATDOOL or TSMGO, Queen only had seven post-HS singles that sold over half a million copies worldwide: Freddie was the sole composer and lyricist on one of them, the chief composer on another, the chief producer and lyricist on another and the chief arranger on further three. I Want It All was the only post-HS big hit that Freddie 'only' sang but didn't write, co-write, produce, co-produce or co-arrange. Snackpot wrote: I also don't know how John not contributing as a writer that much to Hot Space proves anything. He never wrote that much. He only wrote one song on the previous and following album too.Which proves he wasn't the mastermind behind 'Flash' or 'The Works'. Snackpot wrote: We know that Brian and Roger were against HSRoger was, Brian wasn't - he's always defended the album, even going to the ridiculous length of claiming that without it there'd have been no 'Thriller.' Snackpot wrote: In a band that was supposedly democratic you'd have imagine that John at the very least was less hostile and more logically on Freddie's 'side' when it came to the album.Freddie clearly stated (part of the interview's shown on the Great Pretender documentary) that he (Freddie) forced the other three to go in that direction and that they hated him for that because the album didn't sell. Plus, as I wrote earlier, Brian wasn't against the album. It wasn't his favourite or in his top three, but he's always defended it, even going to the ridiculous length of claiming that without it there'd have been no 'Thriller.' John, on the other hand, has publicly expressed his dislike for 'Hot Space', and he was the band member who suffered the most from its direction, his bass playing being replaced by synths on three full tracks. |
| inu-liger 05.08.2013 09:11 |
ParisNair wrote: @Seb - u forgot your favorite (atleast used to be) myth about our Freddie's fav singer? (sorry Inu - i couldn't resist).Nah I was expecting that to pop up anyways. Surprised Seb wasn't the one to bring it up himself ;) |
| Sebastian 05.08.2013 09:14 |
ITSM wrote: I think Freddie had a lot do with Hot Space, John also.Freddie did, John didn't. Brian and Roger were more involved with 'Hot Space' than John was. ParisNair wrote: @Seb - u forgot your favorite (atleast used to be) myth about our Freddie's fav singer? (sorry Inu - i couldn't resist).I kept my top ten to who-wrote-what, who-played-what, who-sang-what and (in the case of 'Bicycle Race') where-he-wrote-it. Outside those areas, there are loads of ridiculous myths as well, like 'Bo Rhap' having 180 vocal overdubs, 'Bo Rhap' being played fourteen times by Kenny Everett on his radio programme, 'Bo Rhap' being the first video ever, 'Bo Rhap' being rejected by the record company, 'Bo Rhap' being cut down from a much longer version, etc. |
| BradMay 05.08.2013 09:31 |
The drums from Days Of Our Lives are (Apart from the occasional cymbal/snareroll) sequenced on the Korg M1. |
| thefantasticdrowse 05.08.2013 09:38 |
The one that bugs me most is people assuming The Show Must Go On was written by Freddie. Granted, the lyrics could very well fit his situation at the time. But still, the viewpoint some seem to hold of Queen being Freddie Mercury... and some other guys... is fairly irritating. |
| Sebastian 05.08.2013 09:49 |
BradMay wrote: The drums from Days Of Our Lives are (Apart from the occasional cymbal/snareroll) sequenced on the Korg M1.No, they're not. Drums on 'Headlong' and 'I Can't Live with You' are (partly) M1-generated, but the ones on 'Days of Our Lives' are real. Congas are programmed, though. thefantasticdrowse wrote: The one that bugs me most is people assuming The Show Must Go On was written by Freddie.It is unfair indeed, but it happens the other way around too, with people assuming Roger composed 'Innuendo' and Brian composed 'Bijou', 'Was It All Worth It' and 'The Hitman'. thefantasticdrowse wrote: Granted, the lyrics could very well fit his situation at the time.Which in fact doesn't prove anything, just like 'Was It All Worth It' having loads of guitar doesn't prove the guitarist wrote it. |
| thefantasticdrowse 05.08.2013 10:29 |
thefantasticdrowse wrote:Granted, the lyrics could very well fit his situation at the time.Which in fact doesn't prove anything, just like 'Was It All Worth It' having loads of guitar doesn't prove the guitarist wrote it. Exactly -- hence it being a bad assumption to make. I've encountered all the examples you quoted as well, and I think this (or at least the Bijou and Hitman assumptions) is mainly due to -- like you said -- assuming that guitar = guitarist. |
| Sebastian 05.08.2013 11:00 |
Poor Brian: he's spent the last 20 years telling people that he wrote 'The Show Must Go On' and they still believe it's Freddie's. |
| Supersonic_Man89 05.08.2013 11:26 |
How are you so sure on some of the post AKOM tracks as to which member wrote what? Some we know from interviews like TSMGO....but i was never aware people knew the true writer of Innuendo, and rumors suggested it was Roger. |
| Snackpot 05.08.2013 11:41 |
Roger did 'write' Innuendo in terms of being the chief lyricist. Under pre-1989 arrangements he almost certainly would have been credited as the sole song-writer. Similar to how he was AKOM despite the fact Freddie played a large part in the (re)arrangement to make the track more commercially viable. |
| Snackpot 05.08.2013 11:44 |
Also on Freddie's guitar - he probably wasn't as bad as his self-deprecating humour suggested but during live shows I was always under the impression the majority of the guitar work for CLTCL was picked up by Brian with Freddie just playing the opening chords and then effectively becoming backing guitar for the rest of the song. Hence he'd often playfully wave his hands away from his guitar during the song and there'd be absolutely no audible difference. |
| thefantasticdrowse 05.08.2013 11:57 |
Snackpot wrote: Roger did 'write' Innuendo in terms of being the chief lyricist. Under pre-1989 arrangements he almost certainly would have been credited as the sole song-writer. Similar to how he was AKOM despite the fact Freddie played a large part in the (re)arrangement to make the track more commercially viable. I was always under the impression that Roger wrote the lyrics (he said it was his tribute to Led Zeppelin, hence the rather Kashmir-like aspects of it) and Freddie wrote the music. Not sure where I got that from, though. |
| thefantasticdrowse 05.08.2013 11:58 |
Snackpot wrote: Also on Freddie's guitar - he probably wasn't as bad as his self-deprecating humour suggested but during live shows I was always under the impression the majority of the guitar work for CLTCL was picked up by Brian with Freddie just playing the opening chords and then effectively becoming backing guitar for the rest of the song. Hence he'd often playfully wave his hands away from his guitar during the song and there'd be absolutely no audible difference. Always the consummate showman. As for his skill on guitar... well, he composed Ogre Battle on acoustic guitar, didn't he? That alone suggests he had a lot more skill than he told me. |
| Sebastian 05.08.2013 13:10 |
Supersonic_Man89 wrote: How are you so sure on some of the post AKOM tracks as to which member wrote what?I'm not, as those things can never be established as 100% facts. In fact, we can't be sure about the pre-AKOM tracks either, as credits can say whatever they want but they're sometimes misleading or at least incomplete. However, in most cases there's enough evidence to strongly suspect (which is not the same as 'being so sure' but is way way way mroe than merely guessing or speculating) who wrote what both before and after AKOM. Supersonic_Man89 wrote: Some we know from interviews like TSMGOAnd even then, people can misremember, exaggerate or simply lie when being interviewed. Witnesses are often largely unreliable. Supersonic_Man89 wrote: never aware people knew the true writer of Innuendo, and rumors suggested it was Roger.It's way out of his league. Snackpot wrote: Roger did 'write' Innuendo in terms of being the chief lyricist.However, he didn't write the music, so under 1989 rules it would've still been credited to May/Mercury/Taylor, or Mercury/Taylor. Snackpot wrote: Similar to how he was AKOM despite the fact Freddie played a large part in the (re)arrangement to make the track more commercially viable.It's not the same case: Roger wrote both music and lyrics on AKOM, Freddie arranged it. For 'Innuendo', Roger wrote lyrics, but not music at all. Snackpot wrote: Also on Freddie's guitar - he probably wasn't as bad as his self-deprecating humour suggested but during live shows I was always under the impression the majority of the guitar work for CLTCL was picked up by Brian with Freddie just playing the opening chords and then effectively becoming backing guitar for the rest of the song. Hence he'd often playfully wave his hands away from his guitar during the song and there'd be absolutely no audible difference.There was some difference, only it was subtle as it was, well, rhythm guitar, and there was a lot going on at the same time to cover it up (drums, bass, piano, lead guitar, vocals, audience noises). thefantasticdrowse wrote: he said it was his tribute to Led ZeppelinJust to be pedantic: no, he didn't. He said it was 'Oscar Wilde meets Led Zeppelin', but that quote doesn't at all claim or imply it was 'his' tribute to LZ. It probably was, though. thefantasticdrowse wrote: Freddie wrote the music.TBF, Freddie wrote most of the music, but not all. Brian was there too. Musically it's Freddie/Brian, lyrically it's Freddie/Roger. |
| Bad Seed 05.08.2013 13:13 |
Freddie WAS a shitty guitarist. He could only just about manage to finger the 6 or so chords in CLTCL. Watch his chord fingering, it's all over the place sometimes to the point he just gives up. |
| Sebastian 05.08.2013 13:16 |
Loads of people with horrible left-hand fingerings are still decent players, Freddie included. |
| Snackpot 05.08.2013 15:53 |
Brian produced a large part of the music to SSoR yet the song was still credited solely to Freddie as he was the lyricist. He also worked closely with Freddie on It's a Hard Life but, again, as Freddie was the chief lyricist he received sole song-writing credit. The rule seems to have been whoever 'gave birth' to the song, regardless of what changes and alterations were made to it during the recording process would be credited as the writer. Hence why Brain received no credit for SSoR, Mercury for AKOM or AOBTD - both songs he had a HUGE influence over the music/sound . So I'm not sure Innuendo would have been credited to anyone other than Roger. The fact Freddie wrote or re-wrote some or most of the music doesn't seem to be in line with something that would have been seen as deserving of a credit pre 1989. |
| inu-liger 05.08.2013 17:00 |
Sebastian wrote: Loads of people with horrible left-hand fingerings are still decent players, Freddie included.Indeed, I could relate to that, particularly in the first few years that I slowly started picking up on guitars. I recall one of my former bandmates ribbing me for the way, for instance, I would form the open D chord position. My index, middle and ring finger would always be on the 3rd, 2nd and 1st string respectively, whereas Brian and Freddie would have theirs (in the same finger order) on the 3rd, 1st and 2nd strings which for me feels totally weird and uncomfortable to mimic! I just chalk this up to me learning pretty much on my own how to play guitar, since I never had lessons. If anything I prefer to take my time with that anyways, and spend time studying videos of other guitarists' methods to see what works for me and what doesn't :-) |
| inu-liger 05.08.2013 17:01 |
That being said, I have to date NEVER ever seen any other guitar player use the position that Freddie uses on his G chords! o.O |
| Ale Solan 05.08.2013 20:27 |
Another Queen myth people tend to swallow: Queen after Freddie's death. |
| Sebastian 05.08.2013 22:55 |
Snackpot wrote: Brian produced a large part of the music to SSoRA middle eight is not 'a large part', it's eight bars, out of 60+. Snackpot wrote: the song was still credited solely to Freddie as he was the lyricist.Not just the lyricist, but also the main composer. Even if Brian wrote the middle-eight, that'd mean Freddie still wrote circa 90% of the music. Snackpot wrote: The rule seems to have been whoever 'gave birth' to the song, regardless of what changes and alterations were made to it during the recording process would be credited as the writer. So I'm not sure Innuendo would have been credited to anyone other than Roger.In that case, it'd have been credited to Freddie, as he was the one who started it, and *then* Roger took it over (lyrically, NOT musically). Snackpot wrote: The fact Freddie wrote or re-wrote some or most of the music doesn't seem to be in line with something that would have been seen as deserving of a credit pre 1989.Freddie didn't just write a middle-eight for it, he composed the whole thing (with Brian), so it's not the same case. On 'Magic' and 'Ga Ga', Freddie contributed to arrangements but the songs had already been written. On 'Innuendo' he wrote it, and then they arranged it together. Not the same case at all. |
| Snackpot 06.08.2013 01:09 |
When you dissect a post to respond almost line for line as you have it makes it very difficult to reply. I never understood why people feel the need to do this. As if others would be confused as to what they're speaking about unless they write it specifically under the six or seven words they're directly responding to. Brian's contribution to SSoR was far more than just eight bars and it was a issue of contention between the two over who should have got the writing credit. Given how every song must have involved some kind of collaboration to some degree it would be unusual for Brian to get prissy over an eight-bar contribution. Brian his since spoke of his contribution and of his disappointment Freddie refused to share the writing credit. Again, as every song they ever produced must have had significant input from others during the recording process it is highly unlikely the bone of contention between the two is because of a middle eight. |
| Sebastian 06.08.2013 08:35 |
Snackpot wrote: When you dissect a post to respond almost line for line as you have it makes it very difficult to reply. I never understood why people feel the need to do this.It's not a need, it's a choice. I'm wearing a blue shirt today. It doesn't mean it has to be blue otherwise the earth will implode, it doesn't mean I hate the other colours, I just happened to choose a blue one because I felt comfortable with it. Same here: I don't 'need' to respond this way, I'm not against other ways of replying, but I chose this one because I like its clarity and precision. As for SSOR... the topic deserves to be discussed in detail, hopefully soon, but the fact remains that Freddie got the credit for (at the very least) the piano motif, the structure, the melody, the lyrics, some (not all) chord progressions, some (not all) of the arrangements. That's way way way more than what Roger did on 'Innuendo': Roger completed (but didn't start) the lyrics, didn't write the motif, didn't write the structure, didn't write the melody, didn't write the chord progressions and was minimally involved in the arrangements. Roger was the chief lyricist of 'Innuendo' but not a chief composer at all. |
| Mr.QueenFan 06.08.2013 09:17 |
This is a great topic Sebastian. I think it would be bether to create a different topic for "Innuendo" and "The Miracle", because it seems that people have a lot to say about the songwriting of these records and it would be great if this information doesn't get lost between all the other Myths. But here is my input regarding Innuendo: - Innuendo -the song- guitarrist Steve Howe from Yes was the man who played the spanish section in the middle section. One could think that this was composed by a guitarplayer (Brian or Howe), but in fact it was composed by Freddie. Howe mentioned that he was asked to play on guitar what Freddie recorded on the keyboard. -"These are the Days of our lifes"- Roger asked for Freddie's input because he felt stalled about the direction to take the music and Freddie wrote the music for what i believe was the section for Brian's guitar solo. (that's the only part of the song that's really different from the rest.) Brian wrote the solo, wich at first Roger didn't like it, but now he loves it. Here goes another myth: John Deacon plays the guitar on "Who needs you". Well, acording to Brian he doesn't. Its's a cheap Brian acoustic guitar and that's Brian playing the song. That's it for now. |
| Sebastian 06.08.2013 10:15 |
John did play guitar on that song - rhythm guitar, that is. Brian did the solos. Opening a new thread about post-Magic songwriting is indeed a great idea. |
| pma 07.08.2013 08:04 |
YourValentine wrote: Please don't bring up Hitler to support the idea that Freddie was a racist :)Hitler had a time machine, his favourite band was Queen |
| Sebastian 07.08.2013 08:25 |
pma wrote: Hitler had a time machine, his favourite band was QueenHe was also Freddie's favourite leader, other than Paul Rodgers of course. |
| Garden Lodge 07.08.2013 13:13 |
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| Garden Lodge 07.08.2013 13:15 |
Thistleboy1980 wrote: Another popular "myth" is that when people don't have an accurate number when highlighting public opinion, they just express it as "99% of people" or "99% of the time".... well, actually, that's not true.....only 99% of them do.Ha ha ha ha good one! Thumbs up ! |
| Garden Lodge 07.08.2013 13:21 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote:I've had people saying "I actually had the LP of Elvis where he sang the song..." ha ha haGarden Lodge wrote: 2.)Crazy little thing was either written and /or sung by Elvis. Yes it was Elvis inspired (Rockabilly) and Freddie kind of sings like him but certainly it doesn't make it his! I've heard people swear that they had heard Elvis singing this one.There is actually a (recent) studio-made fake of Frank Sinatra singing CLTCL, and I think there's also one of Elvis. I picture people are going to use those in the future to 'back up' their claim... |
| Garden Lodge 07.08.2013 13:28 |
You can forget the myth about Freddie being the leader of the band?!!! |
| Sebastian 07.08.2013 14:06 |
In some ways he absolutely was, in others he absolutely wasn't. |
| Blaise Pascal 08.08.2013 14:27 |
Sebastian wrote: In some ways he absolutely was, in others he absolutely wasn't.Please, would you explain this? |
| Thistle 08.08.2013 14:44 |
Blaise Pascal wrote:Well, he absolutely was 99% of the time, according to 99% of the people. However, when pointed out that he absolutely wasn't, 99% thought about it more deeply. 99% of those agreed.Sebastian wrote: In some ways he absolutely was, in others he absolutely wasn't.Please, would you explain this? |
| Sebastian 08.08.2013 15:06 |
Blaise Pascal wrote: Please, would you explain this?Freddie contributed more than any of his bandmates in things like writing, composing, arranging and producing songs, so in that sense he *was* in fact the leader, most of the time. Other things such as instrumentation, contracts, tour details, etc., were not up to him and he reportedly went with the flow. Brian, John and Roger would dominate other aspects, without which Fred wouldn't ever been as successful as he was. |
| 12yrslouetta 09.08.2013 18:37 |
Whilst browsing in Waterstones I came across another newly released Queen book. I scanned it and came to a very interesting bit. It contained an interview/or quotes from Brian May regarding Made In Heavan. It went something like, Roger called him whilst he was on tour to say that him and John were starting work on the new album. Brian replied that he didnt want to do it. Roger said well we're doing it with you or without you, so whatever. Brian said he was very angry and upset at this, so he felt pressured into having to work on it. And he said once he heard the stuff that they had done it was horrific. So horrific that he disregarded all their stuff and took all the tapes to his own studio to start again (im sure that Brian used the word horrific). I like Sebastien thought, assumed, hoped in a way that Made in Heavan was a fully collaborative album, but after reading that extract i dont think it was. I assume (probably wrongly) that Brian shaped everything and the guys put their live stuff down on it. Ill have to go back to Waterstone to see what the book was called. It was surprising how honest Brian had been about the whole process. |
| Sebastian 09.08.2013 19:22 |
12yrslouetta wrote: It was surprising how honest Brian had been about the whole process.We don't know how honest that account is - there are at least three sides of that story, of which one is known. |
| Thistle 09.08.2013 19:47 |
^ it's only 99% honest..... |
| Sebastian 10.08.2013 05:51 |
And only 99% of the time. |
| john bodega 11.08.2013 11:25 |
It all adds up that Roger and John went ahead without Brian, and that he joined the process later. There's that hilarious clip from an interview where Roger insinuates that he and John would go on as Queen with or without Brian. Gee I'm glad it never came to that. Artistic types do tend to overstate things, though. I doubt that the stuff that was worked on without Brian could really have been -that- bad. I just wish I could've been a fly on the wall when "whatever" happened to cause John to quit once and for all. My guess is that Brian called him a cunt. |
| ryekatcher 11.08.2013 12:47 |
Sebastian wrote: No, they're not. Drums on 'Headlong' and 'I Can't Live with You' are (partly) M1-generated, but the ones on 'Days of Our Lives' are real. Congas are programmed, though.What about the ICLWU Rocks re-take? I know they said that it finally includes real drums, but is just another myth/lie or are they in fact real drums. |
| Blaise Pascal 11.08.2013 13:08 |
I always knew that the album version of ICLWU was "born" from a fight between Brian and Roger about whether to use the real drums (and it came to a compromise, with a song almost "funky"); ICLWU of '97, instead, it was the one with the real drums |
| Sebastian 11.08.2013 17:57 |
Zebonka12 wrote: Artistic types do tend to overstate thingsAnd fans of artistic types tend to take everything at face value, which adds up to the problem. Hence people believing 'Bo Rhap' has hundreds of vocal overdubs. Zebonka12 wrote: I just wish I could've been a fly on the wall when "whatever" happened to cause John to quit once and for all. My guess is that Brian called him a cunt.Not having been there I don't, can't and won't ever know the details, but it does seem that the problem was between those two... People tend to say that John was so attached to Freddie that he quit once he was gone, but that's not quite accurate (another myth?), as he had no problem showing up with Roger on a '93 concert (as 'Queen', mind you) and working with him on the posthumous project. Once Brian joined in, John started to take holidays every second week. Check the timeline out: /queenzone/1321064.html |
| Sebastian 14.08.2013 09:17 |
Another possible myth is whether 'Another One Bites the Dust' was actually their biggest selling hit ever. |
| cmsdrums 14.08.2013 10:17 |
I think the myth discussed above that John retired because he missed Freddie too much is interesting, and as is said he had no problem in working extensively with Roger on made In Heaven, and at The Cross gigs, and the Cowdray Ruins gig, and the ballet (with Brian) in 97. It's only once Brian came back into the picture more full time that John stood back. Now, without him telling us we can't ever PROVE his reason for retiring, so I'd like to start a new myth, just as valid as others, that John hated Brian, couldn't stand working with him without Freddie to keep the peace, and so jacked it in! Sebastian - regarding Headlong drums: I realise there are a few sections where the kick drum is on it's own and is clearly 'machine' generated as it's a totally different sound, but for the main, the drum track (especially when you listen to early versions without all the percussion on) sounds like Roger playing to me; you can even hear the differences when he uses his ride cymbal as a crash instead of a 'proper' crash cymbal, and nuances in hi hat opening etc.... Admiteddly I'm not familar with what the M1 can do, but did Roger not, for example, play a verse and a chorus and then they loop it (so it is his playing) rather than the drums actually being programmed or generated from a drum machine with no human playing?? |
| Sebastian 14.08.2013 16:06 |
Not a drum machine, but a keyboard synthesiser. The final cut is a mixture of the M1 drums and Roger's actual playing. |
| Vocal harmony 14.08.2013 18:18 |
Why can't anyone accept that John just wasn't that interested in being a professional musician anymore. If he had fallen out with RT and BM wouldn't he have joined or formed another band or project, or become a song writer for other artists. Those would be the normal roots that musicians take if they fall out with members of the band they are in. John Deacon just got bored or fed up being a musician and took up playing golf or gardening or what ever. |
| br5946 10.10.2013 16:31 |
Here's another Queen myth that people lap up, and I'm sure I've seen people on Queenzone take it for granted too - that Brian wrote White Queen about Mary Austin. True, he did write it way back in '68, the year he met her, but there are even clues in the lyrics to disprove that - 'so sad her eyes she cannot see'. Mary isn't blind. The true story, as confirmed by Brian, is that the inspiration behind White Queen was an unrequited crush who he was nervous about. |
| tomchristie22 11.10.2013 00:28 |
br5946 wrote: Here's another Queen myth that people lap up, and I'm sure I've seen people on Queenzone take it for granted too - that Brian wrote White Queen about Mary Austin. True, he did write it way back in '68, the year he met her, but there are even clues in the lyrics to disprove that - 'so sad her eyes she cannot see'. Mary isn't blind. The true story, as confirmed by Brian, is that the inspiration behind White Queen was an unrequited crush who he was nervous about.You're right about the real story, but those lyrics aren't evidence in any way - it's very unlikely that the girl was actually blind; it's a metaphor, and doesn't disprove anything. |
| aion 11.10.2013 08:46 |
Sebastian wrote:I don't think there was anything specific that caused John to quit, no single fight between him and Brian that made him want to withdraw... he just gradually grew out of wanting to be a musician.Zebonka12 wrote: I just wish I could've been a fly on the wall when "whatever" happened to cause John to quit once and for all. My guess is that Brian called him a cunt.Not having been there I don't, can't and won't ever know the details, but it does seem that the problem was between those two... People tend to say that John was so attached to Freddie that he quit once he was gone, but that's not quite accurate (another myth?), as he had no problem showing up with Roger on a '93 concert (as 'Queen', mind you) and working with him on the posthumous project. Once Brian joined in, John started to take holidays every second week. It happened in the late '80s as he contributed little to The Miracle, Innuendo and post-Innuendo sessions and apparently was on a 'holiday' quite a lot during that time... I think he was already losing interest and pulling out when Freddie was alive, and when he died it was a very easy decision for him to retire. The few things he did in the '90s were just out of obligation for Freddie and maybe playing the odd song live for old time's sake, but when was the last real concert he played and the last time he wrote a song? I guess the same time as Freddie - Knebworth 1986 and if he managed to write something little for The Miracle but that's all. He simply lost the desire a long time ago. John probably hasn't touched a musical instrument in 15 years and doesn't even consider taking part in anything anymore. |
| Sebastian 11.10.2013 21:02 |
aion wrote:It happened in the late '80s as he contributed little to The MiracleHe certainly contributed more to The Miracle than he did to the first five Queen albums. aion wrote:The few things he did in the '90s were just out of obligation for Freddie and maybe playing the odd song live for old time's sake,Participating on the making of a full album (on which ALL songs feature him, something that doesn't happen on Queen II, SHA, ANATO, NOTW, Jazz, Hot Space, The Works, A Kind of Magic or Innuendo) is more than 'few things'. aion wrote:I guess the same time as Freddie - Knebworth 1986The Tribute was a full concert, and it was long after Knebworth. aion wrote:if he managed to write something little for The Miracle but that's all.He wrote more for The Miracle than he did for Queen, Queen II, SHA, ANATO, ADATR, Hot Space or The Works. And he also wrote YDFM with Fred, in 1991. |
| Sebastian 11.10.2013 21:03 |
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| madprofessorus 12.10.2013 01:04 |
When I first heard innuendo as a teenager I was pretty sure that the flamenco style solo was played by Brian, A few years later, when I got the album, and read the credits, my myth was fallen down...as for the other myths, I do believe that Freddie wrote better songs,knowing that would be its last ones,and for hot space, I also believed that John was responsible for this, after watching days of our lives documentary, I started thinking that Freddie was behind this, he mixed too much his party...life back then with his work. And for John's retirement, John was never the typical rocker, when freddie died maybe he felt that the story was over(which is true to my opinion),so he stayed for made in heaven just for Freddie's last wish, and then ,retired to his home |
| aion 12.10.2013 06:26 |
Sebastian wrote: He certainly contributed more to The Miracle than he did to the first five Queen albums.Because in the early years he was still developing and finding his feet as a songwriter... But my understanding is that none of the singles of The Miracle and Innuendo was written by him although he'd written a song that was a single (and usually a hit) for many of the previous albums. His "peak" as a songwriter was in the early '80s and by the late 80s he wasn't doing much anymore Sebastian wrote: Participating on the making of a full album (on which ALL songs feature him, something that doesn't happen on Queen II, SHA, ANATO, NOTW, Jazz, Hot Space, The Works, A Kind of Magic or Innuendo) is more than 'few things'.I don't think so - that's just one project that was completed as Freddie's wish and it would have been very unreasonable for him to refuse doing it. But if he had actually wanted to do new things, like join another band or write songs for other artists he could have done it but he didn't. Sebastian wrote: The Tribute was a full concert, and it was long after Knebworth.Yeah I didn't remember that but Magic Tour was still his last tour, and if he had had desire to play live more he could have formed a new band, joined another or maybe play in Roger's touring band but he did none of that. The tribute concert was also something that he had to do, and my guess is that in his rare live appearances in the early '90s he was testing if he still wanted to play live regularly - obviously he didn't want. Point is simply that John just lost the interest; he was never a rock star type of guy anyway, but a reserved and private person who didn't want attention or do interviews and after 15-20 years of being a professional musician it was enough for him. Freddie's death was kind of convenient for him as it was such an easy reason to retire and by that time he too was some 50 years old and realised he wouldn't want to bounce around a stage as an old man. As he hasn't taken part in any of the stupid Queen+ projects, he clearly doesn't miss the whole business. |
| thomasquinn 32989 12.10.2013 07:00 |
Not composing a song that ended up as a single is a really lousy argument. Singles usually aren't chosen until the whole album is pretty much finished, and usually the producers and the record company issuing the record have a very strong voice in choosing the singles. |
| Sebastian 12.10.2013 07:14 |
madprofessorus wrote: When I first heard innuendo as a teenager I was pretty sure that the flamenco style solo was played by Brian, A few years later, when I got the album, and read the credits, my myth was fallen down...Actually, Brian does play it - it's a duet with Steve. Brian did the main melody (and then harmonised it in thirds) and Steve played the trickier runs like the chromatic scale and the licks near the end. So it's not entirely a 'myth'. aion wrote: although he'd written a song that was a single (and usually a hit) for many of the previous albums.Many? Let's see: ANATO: One hit. ADATR: No singles. NOTW: One flop. Jazz: No singles. The Game: One hit. Flash: No singles. HS: One flop. The Works: One hit. AKOM: Half a flop. 'Many' means three? thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Not composing a song that ended up as a single is a really lousy argument. Singles usually aren't chosen until the whole album is pretty much finished, and usually the producers and the record company issuing the record have a very strong voice in choosing the singles.Moreover, John did contribute to YDFM (single) and he and Roger wrote the sequence which would be the basis for TSMGO (single). |
| aion 14.10.2013 06:33 |
Sebastian wrote: 'Many' means three?You're nitpicking a bit... he wrote Friends Will Be Friends with Freddie which was a hit and I think the song One Year of Love was a single in some part of the world. I Want To Break Free was a hit and Another One Bites The Dust was a huge hit. Back Chat was a single as was Spread Your Wings, that one may not have been a big hit but it's one of my favourite Queen songs at least. It's a better record anyway than with Roger whose first single was Radio GaGa if I'm not mistaken. |
| Bohardy 14.10.2013 06:51 |
Sebastian would never nitpick. That's a preposterous suggestion. |
| Sebastian 14.10.2013 08:42 |
FWBF: Not a big hit. They were quite disappointed it didn't sell nearly as much as they'd expected. OYOL, SYW, BC and NYLT were all singles somewhere, but they all flopped, so they were not hits. Saying 'John wrote three hits' is correct. Saying 'John wrote many hits' is not. |
| Bohardy 14.10.2013 11:21 |
See? Sebastian never nitpicks. |
| Sebastian 25.04.2014 04:13 |
I really love this thread. |
| The Real Wizard 25.04.2014 09:58 |
Me too ! |
| fras444 26.04.2014 01:02 |
haha myth.... People think John Deacon sang bohemian rhap backing vocals... Or the total opposite... Myth... he never sang/never sung in studio ... We all heard that beautifully out of tune wo wo la la la on lap of the gods earls and in tune somebody to love... also I have read somewhere online, must be either Mike Stone or Roy Thomas Baker saying that John Deacon did lay backing vocals in studio for some songs such as lap of the gods rev, Somebody to love and tie your mother down, but where edited all but out. After reading this and hearing his live vocals and his normal talking voice, I swear I can hear this very faint "john deacon" voice in the chorus of in the lap of the Gods "maybe a uncredited vocal from him...?! If this is true there must be some audio in archive vaults of his vocals in studio or he must have done some limited vocal guides for his own songs for Freddie. There is that well published Brian quote reg John's singing. He tried singing how he wanted ANBTD to sound for freddie and Brian said to John... "never sing again!". |
| fras444 26.04.2014 01:10 |
Mr Deacons songs apart from the three hits, were lovely song's even if they never became hits as such, show's that John Deacon was very adept at composing songs. And be cool if Brian and Rodger took us deep into the very mystical world of Queen song writing and told us exactly who did what on other's songs, such as what credit Brian has to SSOR or what guitar parts was exactly played by John on who needs you |
| fras444 26.04.2014 01:55 |
Sebastian wrote: John did play guitar on that song - rhythm guitar, that is. Brian did the solos. Opening a new thread about post-Magic songwriting is indeed a great idea. |
| fras444 26.04.2014 01:58 |
QUOTE] Sebastian wrote:
John did play guitar on that song - rhythm guitar, that is. Brian did the solos.
Opening a new thread about post-Magic songwriting is indeed a great idea.
Indeed!!!!! Not just the post Magic but A whole topic/thread on songwriting in a band called queen and who should be credited for what, ESPECIALLY between 72-86 is a very deeply mystical topic. A classic example to kick it of. The discussion about Freddies and Brian's input to SSOR which basically started this whole who writes the song gets full credit.... Who wrote/composed what in others songs?, what % of the single goes to the others who played their part by playing the other instruments...? For example those bass lines in sail away sweet sister did John write/compose that or did Brian tell John what he wanted, did Freddie tell Rodger how he wanted the drums to sound on, for example Great King Rat or did Rodger come up with that, or who came up with the guitar solos on loser in the end. Rodgers One Vision being taken over by the whole band or Freddie and John sharing the credits for friends will be friends but with Freddie having a huge input to AKOM and Radio GaGa but not getting credited.... In a world of Metallica, AC/DC or GNR the credit basically goes to those who wrote important parts to the song not just the lyrics, Metallica Dave Mustaine wrote one small 10sec guitar rift in two Ride the lighting songs two years!! after getting kicked out of the band, yet he got credit for the song's. Basically the whole band got credit in every song in the classic GNR line up or AC/DC Angus/Malcolm/Bon Scott/Johnson basically wrote the entire song, bass, drums, lyrics the whole lot so got sole credit for that. Queen had that very unique 72-86 who wrote the lyrics get's full exclusive credit way of doing things. But it's interesting to know exactly how much uncredited input the other three had on songs where everyone plays and what % of the income they got from a hit single. Queen songwriting is such deep topic |
| Sebastian 27.04.2014 10:19 |
fras444 wrote: A classic example to kick it of. The discussion about Freddies and Brian's input to SSOR which basically started this whole who writes the song gets full credit....According to other sources (actually, the same sources, some years earlier), the discussion took place when they wrote 'Liar', which predates 'SSOR'. fras444 wrote: Who wrote/composed what in others songs?That deserves its own topic. To be addressed soon. fras444 wrote: what % of the single goes to the others who played their part by playing the other instruments...?The publishing royalties go to the author(s) or their estate/heir(s), the performing royalties go to the band (in this case, 25% each, regardless of what or whether they performed or not, so John still gets paid for 'Body Language' even though he's not there). fras444 wrote: For example those bass lines in sail away sweet sister did John write/compose that or did Brian tell John what he wantedMost likely, Brian *composed* the part and then John *recorded* it. fras444 wrote: did Freddie tell Rodger how he wanted the drums to sound on, for example Great King Rat or did Rodger come up with thatFirst of all, it's Roger (no 'd'). 'Great King Rat' belongs to a period where they used to spend a lot of time together (the three founding members, as John wasn't there yet) and discuss every arrangement detail. From what's been reported, they were more open to suggestions from any about anything, although Freddie was usually the one who had more input on arrangements and stuff like that, and he usually got his way. Later on things would be much more individual and it would be common that the person who'd written the song would write all parts for all instruments. It obviously depends on each particular case. fras444 wrote: or who came up with the guitar solos on loser in the end.There are no guitar solos on that song. There are lead guitar fills, not the same thing. fras444 wrote: Freddie and John sharing the credits for friends will be friends but with Freddie having a huge input to AKOM and Radio GaGa but not getting credited....Freddie and John wrote FWBF together. Roger wrote GaGa and Magic on his own and Freddie arranged them. Not the same thing at all. fras444 wrote: Queen had that very unique 72-86 who wrote the lyrics get's full exclusive credit way of doing things.That's a false myth. Brian wrote the lyrics for 'Machines', but it's still co-credited; Freddie wrote the lyrics for 'Is This the World...', but it's still co-credited. Brian and John didn't write any lyrics for 'One Vision' but they're credited. John didn't write lyrics for 'Friends Will Be Friends' but he's credited. |