| Thistle 28.06.2013 10:13 |
I'm sorry if this is silly, but just looking for some clarification from those in the know.... I've always considered "Mother Love" to be the last recording by Freddie in the studio (roughly May 1991) - however, was filtering through some tracks on my HDD and had forgotten about the Fan Club Version of "I'm Going Slightly Mad" (The "Totally Bonkers" version) - it got me wondering which actually came first/last?? I can't find a date online for when the convention was in 1991. I think it's usually around April, which would obviously make Mother Love the actual final recording - BUT, if the convention was afterwards....... Any help to clarify would be nice!! Cheers :) (also, apologies if this has been up before!) |
| pietrek 28.06.2013 13:24 |
1991 fan club convetion was on 26/27/28 of April |
| Thistle 28.06.2013 15:04 |
Ahhh, thank you pietrek, I don't know why I couldn't find this online :) Very, very close to the recording of Mother Love, then. |
| Mr.QueenFan 28.06.2013 18:56 |
I allways thought that his last sessions were around August/September. Considering the state that Brian describes Freddie in the last "Mother Love" sessions, it's hard to believe that he could have more six months to live. Is there anything official about his last studio recordings? Either way, Freddie was a warriour right until the end, and because of that he recorded some of the most beautifull music i've ever heard. |
| Nick Browning 28.06.2013 20:39 |
a winters tale was two weeks before he died |
| Thistle 29.06.2013 03:56 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: I allways thought that his last sessions were around August/September. Considering the state that Brian describes Freddie in the last "Mother Love" sessions, it's hard to believe that he could have more six months to live. Is there anything official about his last studio recordings? Either way, Freddie was a warriour right until the end, and because of that he recorded some of the most beautifull music i've ever heard.I read somewhere that Brian had mentioned Mother Love as being recorded in the May of 1991. Unfortunately, I can't remember where that was :( |
| Thistle 29.06.2013 04:01 |
Nick Browning wrote: a winters tale was two weeks before he diedReally? Where did you see/ hear this? I've got to say I really doubt that one tbh, as A Winter's Tale is a complete recording, whilst Mother Love had to be finished by Brian. If what you say is correct, then Mother Love would have to have been recorded a week or so before Freddie passed away. |
| Thistle 29.06.2013 04:02 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: Either way, Freddie was a warriour right until the end, and because of that he recorded some of the most beautifull music i've ever heard.Seconded! |
| tero! 48531 29.06.2013 05:25 |
Thistleboy1980 wrote:How do we know that Mother Love HAD to be finished by Brian? To me the final verse has always seemed like it was tacked on the end to fit the idea of regressing to childhood, and it doesn't even follow the structure of the earlier verses.Nick Browning wrote: a winters tale was two weeks before he diedReally? Where did you see/ hear this? I've got to say I really doubt that one tbh, as A Winter's Tale is a complete recording, whilst Mother Love had to be finished by Brian. If what you say is correct, then Mother Love would have to have been recorded a week or so before Freddie passed away. The album has only two complete songs which were recorded after the Innuendo sessions. Lyrics on both of A Winter's Tale and Mother Love are finished (not rough ideas like You Don't Fool Me), and there's no reason to believe that Freddie wouldn't have been able to record both of them in their entirety. It seems logical that the final verse of Mother Love was written and recorded much later than the rest of the song. |
| soxtalon 29.06.2013 06:20 |
Well i could be misremembering but in the documentary I believe Brian said that Freddie left the studio after his last take of mother love saying he was too tired to finish it off and that he'd come back in a few days to finish but of course he never did... That would imply that there was a final verse in place. BUT Brian may have completely changed it during the four years. But that would also lead credo to Mother Love being the last vocal recorded. |
| princetom 29.06.2013 09:01 |
Nick Browning wrote: a winters tale was two weeks before he dieddon't get me wrong, pal... ...but that has been discussed here a thousand times... no need to crap it up again. |
| tero! 48531 29.06.2013 09:19 |
soxtalon wrote: Well i could be misremembering but in the documentary I believe Brian said that Freddie left the studio after his last take of mother love saying he was too tired to finish it off and that he'd come back in a few days to finish but of course he never did... That would imply that there was a final verse in place. BUT Brian may have completely changed it during the four years. But that would also lead credo to Mother Love being the last vocal recorded.Unfortunately Brian's memory isn't that reliable... At best he's flourishing the details in this case because the released version of Mother Love happens to have the "appropriate" finish for a final song. I'm inclined to believe that Freddie sang whatever there was ready (as has also been stated in interviews), and that was the entire song as it was on the day. |
| TheGame 29.06.2013 12:06 |
princetom wrote:So, any conclusion on that subject?Nick Browning wrote: a winters tale was two weeks before he dieddon't get me wrong, pal... ...but that has been discussed here a thousand times... no need to crap it up again. Freddie left Montreux 10.th november. Thats all the fact we know for sure (atleast according to Freestone). David Richard mentioned that Freddie didnt behave very sick in the last session ( he did mention that the only "strange" behaviour was that he had to sit down instead of standing when singing). Didnt David also say that they did 2/6 weeks sessions ( 2 weeks in studio and 6 weeks off). Maybe my memory serve me wrong info here... Anyway, back to topic. Mother Love wasnt finished and the ending was made when Roger/Brian gathered to make an album of the material they had. Which line to which song was the last.....i dont think we have any confirmed info on that one. Asking Brian doesnt seems to be quite reliable.. |
| cmsdrums 29.06.2013 13:09 |
TheGame wrote:My impression from the David Richards interviews is that he is referring to Freddie's health generally across Innuendo and Made In Heaven sessions - not just specifically THE very last session he did. He means that even though he was ill, it wasn't initially apparent, and it only become clear something was wrong later on, towards the later sessions.princetom wrote:So, any conclusion on that subject? Freddie left Montreux 10.th november. Thats all the fact we know for sure (atleast according to Freestone). David Richard mentioned that Freddie didnt behave very sick in the last session ( he did mention that the only "strange" behaviour was that he had to sit down instead of standing when singing). Didnt David also say that they did 2/6 weeks sessions ( 2 weeks in studio and 6 weeks off). Maybe my memory serve me wrong info here... Anyway, back to topic. Mother Love wasnt finished and the ending was made when Roger/Brian gathered to make an album of the material they had. Which line to which song was the last.....i dont think we have any confirmed info on that one. Asking Brian doesnt seems to be quite reliable..Nick Browning wrote: a winters tale was two weeks before he dieddon't get me wrong, pal... ...but that has been discussed here a thousand times... no need to crap it up again. |
| Mr. Bulsara 29.06.2013 16:20 |
A winter's tale was recorded in 1990 according to jim hutton book. |
| Sebastian 29.06.2013 17:26 |
Jim said the song was WRITTEN in 1990; he then said he was sure the song was recorded, but that doesn't mean AT ALL that it was written and recorded the same year... and even if it did, it could be as simple as recording it in 1990 and then adding new ideas or changing a verse, etc., a year later. Track sheet for Mother Love says May 1991. It doesn't prove, however, that vocals come from then. The song could've been started in May and finished much later. |
| Mr.QueenFan 29.06.2013 20:09 |
TheGame wrote:Great post!princetom wrote:So, any conclusion on that subject? Freddie left Montreux 10.th november. Thats all the fact we know for sure (atleast according to Freestone). David Richard mentioned that Freddie didnt behave very sick in the last session ( he did mention that the only "strange" behaviour was that he had to sit down instead of standing when singing). Didnt David also say that they did 2/6 weeks sessions ( 2 weeks in studio and 6 weeks off). Maybe my memory serve me wrong info here... Anyway, back to topic. Mother Love wasnt finished and the ending was made when Roger/Brian gathered to make an album of the material they had. Which line to which song was the last.....i dont think we have any confirmed info on that one. Asking Brian doesnt seems to be quite reliable..Nick Browning wrote: a winters tale was two weeks before he dieddon't get me wrong, pal... ...but that has been discussed here a thousand times... no need to crap it up again. That's why i said August/September, but i really feel that it was somewhere October or early November. In this case i will relly on Brian's word. I know that sometimes he makes "mistakes", but they are about insignificant things- at least for him. This was a very emotional period for him, and even though he never mentions dates, i think it's ok if we take his word about the health state that Freddie was in the studio and cross it with the various Bios about Freddie. And if we do that we can get pretty close about the dates of the last recordings. So having said this, i believe that there is no way that Freddie sang his LAST "Mother Love" lines in May 91. By the time he sang the last lines he was to weak to survive for another 6 months. I remember Brian stating that Freddie sang each line three times (of one verse), and then he went to rest, and was to become the next day(?) and never went back. And the state of Freddie in this session is more in tune with his state during the time he left Montreux, wich according to Freestone is the 10th November [ I've read the book, but i can't remember the exact time, so i'm relying on your memory here :-)]. And i remember him describing the journey back in the airport. Very emotional! And if we take the fact that Mary Austin (?) said that Freddie stoped taking his Intravenous Medication Administration when he realized that he could no longer sing, then i think that we can say for almost total accuracy that his last sessions were around October/early November. Not to mention that at the time of the "Made in Heaven" release there were mentions in some press that his last song was recorded two weeks before he died. So if Brian says that he never went back, i think that is ok to say that his last recording was on "Mother Love", even though it was just three or four lines. This is all by memory here. I'm not going to research this again. Now, if the information they provide isn't accurate, then there's little we can do. On another note, if we compare the vocals from "A winter tale" (the MIH version) and "The show must go on" i would say that there's very little possibility that they were recorded in the same year (1990). The "A winters tale" voice is more close to "Mother Love" than it is to "The Show must go on". Just my two cents. |
| Snackpot 30.06.2013 05:15 |
It's possible Mother Love was the last thing he sang. It's also possible that it's merely the last lyrics he sang which would be completed into a final released track. He may have been in the studio recording other random lines/songs after that which were never used either because of quality of the lyrics or vocals. In what seemed to be a very haphazard approach necessitated due to circumstance (singing a line here or a line just to leave the band with as much material as possible) it seems both convenient and unlikely his final contribution would have been two-thirds of a single song and one that ended up completed and on the final album. |
| Snackpot 30.06.2013 05:15 |
It's possible Mother Love was the last thing he sang. It's also possible that it's merely the last lyrics he sang which would be completed into a final released track. He may have been in the studio recording other random lines/songs after that which were never used either because of quality of the lyrics or vocals. In what seemed to be a very haphazard approach necessitated due to circumstance (singing a line here or a line just to leave the band with as much material as possible) it seems both convenient and unlikely his final contribution would have been two-thirds of a single song and one that ended up completed and on the final album rather than a collection of random, in-cohesive and unusable material and odd throw away lines. We know after all that Brian said Freddie asked for them to just "write me some words and I'll sing them" in that process it's hard to imagine something so united in narrative as Mother Love being the very last thing he sung as opposed to random lines which were just being thrown at him in a desperate attempt to try and salvage something from the remaining days/weeks they had left. |
| Sebastian 30.06.2013 11:50 |
Regarding the accuracy of Brian's testimony: he was in Seville around Autumn, so it could be perfectly possible that he and Freddie had some ML recordings together and that then Fred went to the studios again without Brian, to finish or modify other things (AWT, for instance), and Dr May just assumed otherwise. |
| Thistle 30.06.2013 15:12 |
Sebastian wrote: Track sheet for Mother Love says May 1991. It doesn't prove, however, that vocals come from then. The song could've been started in May and finished much later.That's what has been mixing me up, hence the thought that IGSM convention recording could have been around the same time. Of course, I remember now Brian's version of events from the Days Of Our Lives documentary - which now makes my question seem completely daft. Thanks all for indulging me, though - I appreciate the discussion :) |
| Mr.QueenFan 30.06.2013 17:27 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: (...) On another note, if we compare the vocals from "A winter tale" (the MIH version) and "The show must go on" i would say that there's very little possibility that they were recorded in the same year (1990). The "A winters tale" voice is more close to "Mother Love" than it is to "The Show must go on". .Having said this i just want to say something wich i think it's fair to say in this situation. I've read the Jim Hutton book - Portuguese edition - and at the time i was impressed that he stated that "A Winter's tale" was recorded in 1990. I can examine Freddie's voice and reach my own conclusion, BUT if someone who WAS THERE states their experience, then i believe them. In no way i'm trying to disrespect Jim Hutton's words in any way. I have a tremendous respect for Jim and the others who took care of Freddie, and i have no reason to doubt their word. And that's why i added MIH version, because it's possible that Freddie revisited this song later... or not! Just needed to add this bit to my post. |
| Mr.QueenFan 30.06.2013 18:05 |
Sebastian wrote: Regarding the accuracy of Brian's testimony: he was in Seville around Autumn, so it could be perfectly possible that he and Freddie had some ML recordings together and that then Fred went to the studios again without Brian, to finish or modify other things (AWT, for instance), and Dr May just assumed otherwise.You're right. Guitar Legends was from October 15 to 19 ( i don't remember Brian's night), plus reharsals for the Brian May band. In this next video: link The only conclusion is that ML session was the last time Freddie was in the studio with Brian. (7:03) Roger Taylor says that he believes ML was the last one (6:23); There's other little things that can help defining the time for the Made in Heaven sessions. They say in the video that they went to Montreux after the pictures in the news, and the paparazi surrounding his home. If someone knows this dates, then we can have a time frame for the Made In Heaven sessions. And one last question: Didn't anyone ever bother asking this questions to Greg Brooks at the Queen conventions? |
| john bodega 03.07.2013 15:57 |
It's really odd, but the more they tell us, the more it becomes as clear as mud. I can't keep up with all of the stories. The one thing that comes to mind is Dave Richards saying something to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing heavily here) 'two weeks later, someone called me and asked me what I thought about Freddie Mercury having died'. The thing about that quote is that it hasn't got anything explicit preceding it. If he'd said "two weeks after recording Mother Love", or "two weeks after recording snippets of some song that turned out to be unusable", it might've been more definitive. Freddie's last recordings being in May certainly does not fit with the narrative they've been building in the documentaries (singing even when he can't stand up, or quitting his meds when he couldn't perform anymore), so either they're all horrible liars or someone's taking a track sheet too literally. There's dozens of possibilities as to what his calendar was like in 1991. Recording music can be enough of a shit storm for a healthy individual with all of the time in the world. Anyways. I've never seen it definitively stated that he didn't record on his last Montreux trip, and it's hard to imagine the man doing nothing from May-November. What a depressing topic, I'm going to go eat some Pringles. |
| Mr.QueenFan 03.07.2013 19:36 |
There's an interesting interview with David Richards (producer) for the Rolling Stone magazine in 1995. link Right in the beginning there's this question and answer: "Q: Was A Winters Tale the last song Freddie wrote for Made In Heaven? DR: A Winters Tale was the last song he wrote, the last song he sang for MIH was Mother Love, which Brian wrote for him." It's a very interesting read. So, i think that we can conclude for 100% shure that Freddie's last recording was indeed "Mother Love". We still don't have the time frame of the sessions, but it answers the original question by the topic starter Thistleboy1980. |
| Sebastian 04.07.2013 01:12 |
Just to nitpick: DR said ML was the last song he *sang*, not the last song he *recorded*. Freddie could've still been recording keyboard parts *after* his last vocal take. |
| scovel001 04.07.2013 07:57 |
There's a Jim Beach TV interview which was posted around the beginning of the 40th anniversary (which I can't find). Where he states 'he worked up until the June'. I read that as he finished on the 31st of May. There's another post on a forum somewhere where someone stated that they asked Brian directly when he met him & Brian said that May was the last time Freddie was in the studio. You've also got the Jim Hutton book where is says Freddie finished in the spring (ie May) & wasn't interested talking about music after this time (which I can't quite believe). To contradict that, you've gotten the press statements from 1991 saying ML was recorded 2 weeks before his death & then those pictures printed in the Sun (worlds worst newspaper) of his last birthday where he actually looks 'alright'. IMO ~ ML is the last one, & the 'official' sessions where all done & finished by the end of May. Winters Tale was recorded around the end of 90 - beginning of 91. Speculation ~ being a 'band' Freddie wanted to work with the other 3 recording music & not separately. It was tying everyones diaries together & Mar-May 1991 was THE Queen sessions ~ end of. More Speculation ~ Fred's last trip to Montreaux was purely recreational, he might have popped in to see David Richards to say hi. The only thing occurs to me is a) yeah, 6 months ~ you would think Freddie would've wanted to get maybe 'more' stuff down. but: b) if that was the case, why no recording equipment at Garden Lodge? If it was me, I would have wanted to perhaps get some stuff down if I was feeling reasonably well for a few hours, regardless of the quality. To contradict that, Roger said, there were guys with camera's peaking through the downstairs loo window!!! So, perhaps not! There's also that trip to Metropolis studios (wasn't it) in late 1991 ~ again maybe a drop in to say hi/bye type visit? I think we're all reading too much into it in the hope there's a hidden 'A summers tale' in the archive, which there obviously isn't! |
| tero! 48531 04.07.2013 08:47 |
scovel001 wrote: The only thing occurs to me is a) yeah, 6 months ~ you would think Freddie would've wanted to get maybe 'more' stuff down.It seems they didn't have (or want) any material to be recorded. After the Innuendo sessions they came up with two new songs, and bits and pieces for a third. You'd think that they would have done some cover songs or collaborations, or that Brian would have given his solo songs for Freddie to sing. That's why it's very hard to believe the official claim that they were giving him anything and everything to sing while he was still able to do so. |
| Sebastian 04.07.2013 14:13 |
scovel001 wrote:Speculation ~ being a 'band' Freddie wanted to work with the other 3 recording music & not separately.Being in the digital era, a loooooooooooot of recordings were done separately, and it'd happened for both The Miracle and Innuendo as sessions would sometimes overlap with other projects they'd be doing at the time (Barcelona, Shove It, MBDTK, BTTL, The Scottish Play) and a lot of songs were done by one, two or three at the studio (e.g., John wasn't there when Steve recorded the solo for Innuendo, only Brian was there when he developed most of Show Must Go On, Roger wasn't there when fans visited them near the end of The Miracle sessions, Roger also missed the writing session for Party, etc.) Each recording would need approval from all four and they'd all be involved in one way or another in deciding which songs to include and the order and the single and all that so it was in fact a band product but it doesn't mean that all four of them were all the time together in the studio. Not even as early as the first album such a thing happened (Roger did session work, John was still studying, Brian was a maths teacher), they'd be together for the backing track but that was it. Reasons to believe recording sessions took place after May/June: * Documented visits from Freddie to Montreux in August and in October; Peter Freestone confirmed he'd only fly there to record... going through customs and putting up with all the logistics just to walk around and see the ducks wouldn't make much sense anyway. * The (certainly much romanticised but also probably carrying a bit of truth) comments by Fred's former bandmates and former girlfriend (to name a few) of how he kept recording until he physically couldn't do it any more, etc. * Indeed, a workaholic would be six months doing nothing? Whether such work was usable or not is indeed a different story, but there's a lot to suggest there were sessions after May, either in Switzerland or in England, or both, |
| Mr.QueenFan 04.07.2013 19:04 |
Sebastian wrote: Reasons to believe recording sessions took place after May/June: * Documented visits from Freddie to Montreux in August and in October; Peter Freestone confirmed he'd only fly there to record... going through customs and putting up with all the logistics just to walk around and see the ducks wouldn't make much sense anyway. * The (certainly much romanticised but also probably carrying a bit of truth) comments by Fred's former bandmates and former girlfriend (to name a few) of how he kept recording until he physically couldn't do it any more, etc. * Indeed, a workaholic would be six months doing nothing? Whether such work was usable or not is indeed a different story, but there's a lot to suggest there were sessions after May, either in Switzerland or in England, or both,Great post Sebastian. And to add to this list: On the same interview os David Richards to RS in 1995 : link there's this: "Q: What sort of feelings do you have about the release of MIH? DR: We fulfilled Freddie's last wish. He wanted to make music till the last second, he wanted to sing. It was a difficult situation for all of us, but especially for Freddie, but he really wanted this project to be finished, even though he knew that the album would be released after his death." I think that this is very clear, that Freddie wanted to sing untill he was able to, and he thought about music and this project in particular a lot, because he knew it was his last. As for the interviews and documentaries, we have to understand that these are edited. For example, when they speak over the "These are the days of our lives" video, and say things like "...around this time.." we are led to believe that it was around the video time, but we have to understand that Brian and Roger are not seing the video. They're just talking. And one last thing: On the same interview there's this bit: "Q: How long did you work with Freddie on this album? DR: Let's say it took us about 4 weeks for recording, in this period the songs were written and recorded(...)" ------- Of course these were not consecutive weeks, but can anyone tell the dates of the incidents with the Newspapers that are in this video (the first two minutes): link Can anyone remember the dates that Freddie appeared on those tabloids? Even if we don't get the exact date of the sessions we can start to make a picture of it. |
| enbits 17.03.2018 00:34 |
Considering that Freddie did not finish recording Mother Love, it makes lot of sense that it was his last vocal recording. According to Justin Shirley Smith the sound engineer during those sessions, the vocals were recorded between May 13 and May 16: ""The dates were not always written down, but after searching through the labels on old boxes of reel to reel tape, Mr Shirley-Smith says it was definitely Mother Love, recorded between May 13 and 16 1991."" But These Are The Days video was shooted in May 30 and we can hear his voice in the color video footage of the recording session when he talks to the band members and staff, so that's the last voice record of Freddie not singing. link |
| e-man 20.03.2018 11:05 |
Sebastian; this is also why, imo, the rumoured Don't try so Hard video MIGHT have happened too. I'm not sure I believe it anyways, but the timeline would make sense. Brian was very busy putting together the Guitar Legends concert, and Roger was very busy with The Cross. Add to the fact that Peter Freestone has confirmed that Freddie was in Montreux as late as October, the story CAN be true. |
| Supersonic_Man89 23.03.2018 11:26 |
Jesus... you're gonna get a fact-bashing from Sebastian when he sees your reply... |