| Vocal harmony 16.03.2013 08:12 |
Through the years it has always amused me that so many people believe that the Crown lighting rig was sold to ELO who then converted it into their Flying Saucer rig. Both bands were touring at the same time in 1978. And using different lighting companies. The Crown was 54 ft wide and had about 120 par can lamps hung from it's base. The ELO Flying Saucer was at least 60ft wide as it enclosed the whole stage, something the Crown never did. The Saucer used a simlar number of lamps but of various types and not hung so closely together. The saucer used large sections of fibre glass to while the crown used canvas stretched over a frame put together by a sail making firm. Niether band owned their lighting rig. Like any major tour sound, lighting and pa were hired in for the tour. |
| master marathon runner 16.03.2013 13:40 |
Crikey, what memories. I saw both at Wembley empire pool, within a few weeks of each other. So proud I made the effort and witnessed rock history. |
| Bad Seed 17.03.2013 04:08 |
Well as far as I'm aware it was Roger who said they'd sold it to ELO and didn't ELO only start to use the rig from their June '78 Wembley dates? Makes sense to me, Queen finish with it in May, it stays at the venue and is customised by ELO for their June dates. |
| Jazz 78 17.03.2013 09:10 |
My cousin Joe (Trovato) worked for TFA Electrosound at the time and designed that rig since he was the lighting director. Not sure if the rig was sold to ELO but I heard at the time that he was quite pissed that they took his idea. If I ever get the chance to ask him I will. |
| . 17.03.2013 13:28 |
Was it still the full crown with canvas in may 78? I really can't remember. I was there: link |
| master marathon runner 18.03.2013 07:25 |
Yes, but you know what? - it was a poor crown to be honest. Looked like one of those outta town retail parks we see now. |
| Vocal harmony 18.03.2013 07:35 |
yes it was.there were two crown lighting rigs. the first, and larger of the two, was only used at Earls Court. it used the lighting rig that was already in use on that tour, colums hung in an arc accross the back of the stage. the second crown was designed to tour with and was smaller and simplar in appearence. it was used in the US winter 77 and then in Europe and the UK in 78. no it wasnt left hanging in Wembley Arena for a month. a show on that scale takes more than just turning up and "customizing" what another very different show has left behind. besides who would pay for an Arena to stay unused so you can leave 12 tons of lighting rig hanging there? ELO used a different lighing company to Queen and were touring at the same time as Queen with a big production, during that tour the space ship idea was being planned but wasnt ready till Wembley. The flying saucer was designed to fit around the lghting ELO were using. Roger's comment was a dig at the fact ELO had a circular mobile lighting rig like Queen had. . Brian also claimed Queen were the first band to use a mobile rig, not so, The Stones, Yes and Pink Floyd had all explored this new idea. |
| splicksplack 18.03.2013 07:56 |
It was Roger that made the remark but I think that was just a little dig at ELO for using the same idea of a stage opening upwards to reveal the band. Although of course it is quite possible that he was referring to the hydrolic system and basic framework for the rising section but as VH said, bands don't tend to own their lighting rigs (at stadium level). Also, don't forget there were two Crowns. The first one was used at Earls Court in 1977 and was not built for touring. It was bigger (certainly in height) than the touring version that toured with News Of The World starting in the States at the end of '77. The original looked like a mass of metal spagetti wrapped in gauze with twinkling fairy lights used at the end when it descended to God Save The Queen. The touring version was more compact and not as impressive or mysterious- looking. Interestingly, The Jacksons toured in 1981 with a very similar lighting rig to Queen's Game tour (with the rig known as either the 'GII Razor' or the 'Fly Swatter'. Check out the Jacksons Live album of that tour. The centre spread of the double LP shows the lighting rig "landed" facing out to the crowd just as Queen's did at the end of The Game shows. |
| splicksplack 18.03.2013 07:58 |
Ha ha, sorry VH. was writing my post at the same time as you. Very similar. |
| Planetgurl 18.03.2013 19:09 |
I think I can add some interesting comments to the above. In 1983 I began a dissertation on lighting in the arts and part of it centred on Queen rigs. I got the information from interviewing Peter (Hince) at the offices in 1982. He gave me lots of information about them over the course of an hour. He told me (I quote from my Appendix notes here from the time) all the rigs (pre-1982) the band invested in and owned, which was unusual as most bands hired them. "These have been sold onto interested parties after the rig has served it's purpose. The 'Crown' structure used on tour in 1978, had an inner circular structure which concealed the lighting rig - both were then sold to ELO and formed the top half of their UFO rig... Another rig that Queen owned (the first one) was eventually sold onto Saxon who toured with it in the late '70's." At the time, Queen had just used M2 Research based in LA, to develop the rig they just toured with (in 1982) - this company were a structural engineering company, whose research and development ideas (stage show presentation and effects) were presented to the band at the design stage, to be worked into the final rig. |
| Bad Seed 19.03.2013 04:14 |
Now are you sure about this Planetgurl? I only say this as Vocal Harmony's facts which seem to be based on assumptions completely contradict what you've said. |
| Planetgurl 19.03.2013 05:01 |
Well, I'm not interested in contradicting anyone but I am sure myself about this because Peter (Ratty) Hince was a senior roadie with them and had worked for the band since 1975 - he'd done every tour since that date up to 1982, when I interviewed him and took extensive notes at the time. I haven't recalled this from memory, that was copied from my original text, written in 1983. Queen did invest a lot of money into their rigs, into the research and development of them and the building of them. Once these had been used, they were either broken up into separate lighting sections for a subsequent tour (Pizza Oven) or sold onto interested parties for other tours. I'm sure they weren't the only band doing this but it was common practice years ago for those bands that could afford to invest in their own lighting for tours to sell them on. ELO might have used a different lighting designer for their 1978 tour but the main structure from the Queen 'Crown' rig (the portable 1978 tour one) was reused as perhaps part of the entire ELO rig: which I did see on the stage at Wembley, for both the Queen tour and then ELO. The opening of the ELO gig was great - spectacular - and went downhill after that. I was bored by halfway through.... This just shows the Queen show was carefully planned and constructed around dynamics which Peter also told me at the time, ie. how they did this - and that it all came from Fred. |
| Bad Seed 19.03.2013 06:04 |
I was only joking by the way. Very informative post, thanks! |
| Planetgurl 19.03.2013 07:48 |
That's alright! :-D |
| splicksplack 20.03.2013 08:31 |
It just shows what a great fromtman Freddie was. You can have all the staging and lighting in the world but it's only there to compliment the act. While I absolutely love ELO I never had any incling to see them live cos Jeff Lynne just stands there. Like...so what? The TV special of the show is a complete bore after the spaceship rises. Also, Queen used their lighting quite intelligently. I remeber the effects in Get Down make Love, Dragon Attack etc and of course the literally blinding finales. Unfortunately ELOs lights just lit up the stage. |
| TFAroadie 31.08.2013 00:20 |
Just to clear this lighting rig stuff up. The original crown was made up from a re purposed octagonal lighting rig initially used for Robin Trower. At that time RT wasn't filling halls and we downsized to a two truss arched truss affair with two on stage spot light towers. The octagon (Joe Travato was by the way the lighting designer for both Trower and Queen) was repurposed with multiple gin poles carrying fabric to simulate the crown points as well as a circular curtain track which would hide band gear before it flew. This rig was first rehearsed in the Music Hall Theater in Boston, home to TFA at that time. I know this because I was there. I don't thing either John Mcgrath or John Miles (M2) were involved at that time. The rig was never sold to ELO, remained in the TFA inventory as later I took the rig reconfigured yet again to square truss rig with Tom Petty's first arena tour. |
| splicksplack 31.08.2013 06:18 |
Thanks TFAroadie. I've always been fascinated by the theatrics of Queen's performances and lighting rigs in general. Did you guys see the original Crown that was used in Earl's Court London in 1977 and use it as a model? That too had a curtain track. (I was in the front row). Also did you then work on the pizza oven at the end of 1978 into 79. I have some setting-up pics of that if you're interested (from Liverpool '79). Do you have any pics of your work with Queen? What may be rubbish to you will be gold dust to me. (I mean I even treasure a burnt-out green gel from the pizza oven that a bemused roadie gave me). BTW, nice connection with Tom Petty. I saw him in New York in May. |
| Vocal harmony 31.08.2013 12:00 |
TFA roadie, thanks for your input. I think any one who saw the two rig in use and has a clear memory of the ELO rig would remember that the ELO rig was much wider than the Queen rig as it was built to encompass the whole stage where as the Crown was built to hang above the stage and was about 50ft from side to side. The other point that a lot of people don't seem to understand is that the system required for lifting the crown wasn't some huge hydraulic device but was in fact four ( i believe ) chain motors which are used to raise trusses weather or not they form a mobile lighting rig like the crown. The same things are used to fly PA systems too. |
| dysan 31.08.2013 14:24 |
Great thread. Thanks everyone! |
| TFAroadie 31.08.2013 19:14 |
Never went out with Queen. Happened to be in the shop off the road for a short time when the rig was assembled so spent some time shuttling parts and pieces back and forth from the shop to rehearsals. You are correct the trusses flew off (4) 2 ton CM chain motors. |
| joemichaels 07.03.2015 16:21 |
I believe you may be confusing the "crown" rig with the "panel" version used on later tours. Queen used the crown rig during its News of the World tour (1977). Dragon Attack, etc., were from The Game (1979-1980). |
| Martin Packer 07.03.2015 16:57 |
Oh by "panel" you mean the "fly swatters". :-) Very nice to be reminded of them by a segment in the longer of the two Let Me In Your Heart Again videos. |
