| scottmax 04.01.2013 15:18 |
Apologies if this has been discussed before..... While listening to Queen Rocks the 'retake' of I Can't Live With You came on. Was this the actual original version or just a new backing track? Which then made me think if they thought about putting it on Made in Heaven? Just a thought. .... |
| jpgthfc 04.01.2013 17:34 |
If I'm correct, the Rocks version of I can't live with you was how Brian and Roger initially intended for it to be, as in 'rockier' but the reason the original version is different is because that's how Freddie wanted it |
| tomchristie22 04.01.2013 18:30 |
The 'rocks' retake is a new backing track. Wouldn't have a clue whether it was done in 1995 or 1997. To be honest, as much as I like the song, I think both versions kind of fall flat - the original sounds dull, underproduced and generally like a demo as most people say, while the retake sounds overproduced. It's like a wall of sound sort of approach at times, when the 'big' sound really doesn't fit the song, at least for me. The song was originally gonna be for Brian's solo project, but the other band members liked it so they used it for Innuendo instead. It's Brian's song, so I don't think Freddie's intention would have THAT much influence on the end product. They used a programmed synth drum part, which doesn't help, and Brian's gone on record as saying it was impossible for them to mix so it would sound like they originally wanted it. The retake was obviously a means of getting around that issue. I don't think the newly recorded version is meant to the be the definitive version or anything, just one which is more fitting for the 'Rocks' album. It is, however, closer to how Brian and Roger would've liked it to sound. |
| DLCVinnuendo 04.01.2013 19:38 |
the rocks version is much better than the original, the innuendo version is so lazy... |
| dowens 04.01.2013 21:35 |
i know this has been probably discussed before, but why does "Innuendo" sound flat? the album is my fav, but seems to lack punch . |
| waunakonor 04.01.2013 21:36 |
Everything here seems pretty accurate the way I've read it, however I disagree with tomchristie about the Rocks version. I love it; it doesn't sound overwhelming, and it's nice hearing more guitars and a real drum track added to the shallow poppiness of the original. When listening to Innuendo, I often replace the original with the QR version just because I find the original so hard to listen to when there's a far superior version out there. |
| waunakonor 04.01.2013 21:38 |
dowens wrote: i know this has been probably discussed before, but why does "Innuendo" sound flat? the album is my fav, but seems to lack punch .Ha ha, we posted our things at almost the exact same time. This definitely wasn't here before I posted my original comment. Anyway, the way I understand it, the reason the album (some songs more than others) sounds kind of dull and flat in general is because this was Queen's first digital recording, all the previous ones being recorded analog. Digital recordings are known for sort of sucking the soul out of music (which is why I will always prefer the sound of vinyl records over anything else). The overabundance of synths doesn't help at all, either. |
| GT 05.01.2013 00:20 |
This track was also going to be the first single from Rocks but that decision was changed. |
| scottmax 05.01.2013 02:42 |
is there or would there been a video for it GT? Wasn't the album labeled as Volume 1? I do prefer age Rocks version and it also got me thinking, do you think the band would do an album of 'reworked' songs? |
| scottmax 05.01.2013 02:43 |
is there or would there been a video for it GT? Wasn't the album labeled as Volume 1? I do prefer the Rocks version and it also got me thinking, do you think the band would do an album of 'reworked' songs? |
| cmsdrums 05.01.2013 04:15 |
I've read interviews with Brian where he says that Roger recorded the drums back in the day for tge Innuendo version but Brian ended up preferring to keep the electronic druns on it as the mix didn't sound right. Listening to it, I thought that the Rocks version drums were Roger's original Innuendo take without all the electronics on top and they are NOT re-recorded (although some guitar is new) - perhaps GT can confirm for sure? |
| Wiley 05.01.2013 11:17 |
I seem to recall Brian saying Roger couldn't quite get the beat right and they went with Brian's programmed drums (from his demo perhaps?). When they revisited the song they edited the drum track with some protools-type software and then it "worked". I'm thinking slight changes in tempo, minuscule edits here and there that couldn't be made (easily) with 1991 technology. Perhaps they thought it was too much of a hassle for an album track? Or they were on a hurry? Who knows? Seems weird to me that Roger couldn't capture Brian's idea or "feel" for the beat and they left the programmed drums, though. The mixing argument makes more sense but what I just mentioned is my interpretation of some Brian comment or interview I read years ago. |
| GT 05.01.2013 11:49 |
A new version of I Can't Live With You, which was going to be the first single, is included and different to the original on the Innuendo album. It is also different to the Brian Malouf remix that was issued as a USA promo single at the time of that album. The band found an unused studio take they had not used, and so reworked it with new drums and guitar from both Brian and Roger. Brian: "I Can't Live With You was a track which started off in the studio with the three of us playing it, and there were problems in getting it to work because it was half way between a sort of funk thing and a rock thing, and somehow although the live stuff sounded heavier it didn't have the feel...the bounce that it needed. We did it with mostly programmed drums and a lot of keyboards and stuff and it was built very much as a pop record. Roger never forgave me, because it didn't end up with having him on it, so I don't blame him really. So when he suggested that we redo it I sort of understood where he was coming from and I also thought it was a good idea because now you have technology much more than you had in those days, so we were able to take the original drum track and work on it on the computer and just get rid of all those things where we disagreed about what the timings were. Having done that it all sounds glittering and wonderful so I was moved to play new guitar to it, so it's now much heavier thing all round. All that's left of the original really is the vocal and even that we did a little work on, and just odd little bits." |
| GT 05.01.2013 12:16 |
is there or would there been a video for it GT? Wasn't the album labeled as Volume 1? I do prefer the Rocks version and it also got me thinking, do you think the band would do an album of 'reworked' songs? I personally don't think the band will do a 'reworked' songs album - why would they? The songs are perfect as they are. I know a lot of bands and artists have done this over the years, but Brian and Roger would probably not like the idea and certainly not have the time. Yes, in some of the promo material the album was labelled as 'Volume 1', especially in the USA. There is no video for the song and very much doubt that one would have been made. |
| tero! 48531 05.01.2013 12:26 |
GT wrote:There is no video for the song and very much doubt that one would have been made.Wasn't there a Rocks videotape with some sort of videos for all the songs, including this one? (I know some people don't like to count stuff like the MIH and the Rocks clips as official music videos, but they have been approved by the band for promotional purposes...) |
| Wiley 05.01.2013 12:29 |
Thanks Gary! That's the interview I was referring to. So it was about the 'timing' / beat and not the mixing. Also, the song originating with the 3 of them (B+R+John?) playing in the studio. Wasn't it supposed to be for Brian's solo album? Also, what about the bass for the 1997 retake? |
| tero! 48531 05.01.2013 12:30 |
I had a look in youtube, and although the song seems to be played over the credits of the release, it does have a video sequence on it... I suppose that exists in the archives as a ready-to-use video for this song? |
| scottmax 05.01.2013 12:34 |
Thanks for that Gary |
| Walter B. 05.01.2013 12:35 |
Some more bits and pieces from the fanclub about Queen Rocks: September 3rd, 1997: I can now confirm (although I'm told by Jim Beach this is, as always, 99% confirmed!) that the track listing for Queen Rocks One is as follows: We Will Rock You, I Want It All, Tie Your Mother Down *, Hammer To Fall, I Can't Live With You +, Keep Yourself Alive, Stone Cold Crazy, One Vision, Tear It Up, Now I'm Here, Fat Bottomed Girls, Headlong, Sheer Heart Attack, Put Out The Fire, I'm In Love With My Car, It's Late * - remixed by Brian, Roger and John. + - new version. It is due for worldwide simultaneous release on November 3rd. In the UK there will be TWO singles, The first is LIKELY to be "I Can't Live With You" released on October 27th and a second single will come on December 15th. I cannot confirm that yet, as this might change, but at least you know when to start pestering your record stores!! I don't have any idea yet what extra tracks these might feature, if any, nor what other tracks might be used as singles elsewhere in the world. September 11th, 1997 News! The track listing for Queen Rocks One has been changed again, and I am told it is still not 100% confirmed and is still subject to change...but it is now as follows: We Will Rock You, Seven Seas Of Rhye, I Want It All, Tie Your Mother Down, I Can't Live With You, Hammer To Fall, Stone Cold Crazy, Now I'm Here, Fat Bottomed Girls, Keep Yourself Alive, Tear It Up, One Vision, Sheer Heart Attack, Put Out The Fire, Headlong, It's Late. October 8th, 1997 The track list for Queen Rocks One is finally finally agreed, and we'll post it here in a few days..it's all quite exciting and I can reveal that there is BRAND NEW Queen track on this album which was only recorded recently by Brian, Roger and John which is called "No One But You". I will bring more on this exciting development soon! October 9th, 1997 Isn't it exciting to think that there is a brand new Queen song? There has been a lot of rumour about this being an old Queen demo which features Freddie's vocals, this is rubbish. "No One But You" is a song written in January by Brian, about Freddie, but also about anyone who died before their time. He discussed it with Roger and John and they collectively decided it should be a Queen song...and so they joined forces and recorded it! It just gives me GREAT hope that more Queen work might be forthcoming. The track will be a single, but not released until AFTER the album, and a second single is likely (I Can't Live With You). I have today received an email which says that someone has heard a "great new version" of Fat Bottomed Girls on radio in Australia...I'm afraid no one in the Queen camp has any idea about this, as they certainly haven't remixed this track! it now transpires also that the version of Tie Your Mother Down on the Rocks album is NOT a remix - this MIGHT be done as a possible third single. October 13th, 1997 A few people haven't QUITE got the hang of the new news yet...the new song, No One But You, will be the first single from Queen Rocks One and will be released AFTER the album, no single will be released prior to the album. I Can't Live With You is likely to be a second single in January but this hasn't been confirmed yet. October 14th, 1997 There is no news yet about what "other tracks" will be on the single releases from the Rocks album, decisions haven't yet been made! I'll bring you news when I get any. There is some information in one of the many unofficial Queen Fanzines being circulated at the moment that the track No One But You is a song that was written for inclusion on Made In Heaven but was never finished until recently. This is rubbish! It really IS a brand new song... October 21st, 1997 The tracklisting of QUEEN ROCKS ONE is as follows: We Will Rock You Tie Your Mother Down I Want It All Seven Seas Of Rhye I Can't Live With You Hammer To Fall Stone Cold Crazy Now I'm Here Fat Bottomed Girls Keep Yourself Alive Tear It Up One Vision Sheer Heart Attack I'm In Love With My Car Put Out The Fire Headlong It's Late No One But You (Only The Good Die Young) This will be released worldwide on November 3rd, and the first single will be No One But You on November 24th. It's likely that Hollywood Records track listing will differ, but I don't have confirmation of that yet. The album will be released on double vinyl, CD and cassette and the single as 2 CD's and a cassette. There is a possibility that EMI here in the UK will produce a limited edition coloured vinyl for collectors, but that hasn't been confirmed yet. |
| Walter B. 05.01.2013 12:43 |
And some info about No-one but you: November 11th, 1997 There is now some discussion as to whether No One But You will be released as a single...it seems that EMI and the band are having second thoughts. A meeting is taking place this week to make the decision and I'll let you know as soon as I hear any news. IF the track is not released I would assume that they will revert to plan A and release I Can't Live With You as the first single....I'll let you know! But I really hope that they do run with No One But You as a single, it's a beautiful song and I think it will do well. November 17th, 1997 The meeting is taking place right now about whether or not No One But You will be released on Monday in the UK....I hope it's yes! I'll let you know tomorrow. It HAS been released in Spain and is currently at number four. (Queen Rocks entered the UK chart at 7 by the way). November 18th, 1997 The meeting was held yesterday at EMI here in London, and the decision has been made NOT to release No One But You as a single here. It WILL be released in Spain (I thought it had been but it's released on November 24th) and possibly other European countries, no news yet on USA, but, certainly at the moment, NOT here in the UK. November 19th, 1997 It's not 100% certain that No One But You will be pulled! It seems there is much interest in the song and the video, so we must just wait and see what transpires....it's unlikely that it will come out on Monday, but it's not entirely out of the question it WILL come before Christmas.... yippee!! It has been "released to radio" so at present if you want to hear it, call them...if enough people can get it played then the powers that be will listen...! November 26th, 1997 YOU DID IT!! I just heard today via Brian's office and Jim Beach that EMI/Parlophone have given in to public pressure and they WILL be releasing No One But You as a single on JANUARY 5th 1998! So many fans phoned them, wrote to them and generally made their feelings known that they felt they really had to take notice, so WELL DONE and give yourselves a pat on the back! Originally the other CD tracks were to be Princes of The Universe, Gimme The Prize (the new version remixed by Josh Macrae for The Eye) and the Rick Rubins Ruined Mix of We Will Rock You that was initially released by Hollywood Records in the USA. November 27th, 1997 No One But You has been released in Germany and Holland this week, so you can get it as a single NOW in your record shops. The other CD tracks in Holland are Princes Of The Universe, Gimme The Prize (The Eye version) and the Rick Rubin Ruined WWRY. December 3rd, 1997 No One But You will be released on January 5th as a double a side with Tie Your Mother Down here in the UK, at least that's the plan at the moment! Some extra artwork might also be included in the packaging, but I don't yet know what this will be - or whether the extra tracks will remain as they are or change due to the addition of TYMD (let's hope they lose the Ruined Mix..no offence Mr Rubin, I'm sure you're a very nice man but...!) December 4th, 1997 It is definite that No One But You will be released as a double A side here in the UK with Tie Your Mother Down, the other tracks will be Princes Of The Universe, Gimme The Prize (remixed version from The Eye) and the Rick Rubin Ruined Mix of We Will Rock You. January 5th, 1998 The single "No One But You" was released in the UK today, on CD, cassette and picture disc 7". |
| Walter B. 05.01.2013 12:46 |
And there has been talk of an early tracklisting for Rocks. I found this in an old newsgroup. I have no idea if this is correct at all: Keep Yourself Alive Modern Times Rock 'N' Roll Ogre Battle Seven Seas Of Rhye Brighton Rock Now I'm Here Stone Cold Crazy Tie Your Mother Down* We Will Rock You Sheer Heart Attack It's Late Fat Bottomed Girls Tear It Up Hammer To Fall One Vision I Want It All I Can't Live With You* I'm In Love With My Car Headlong *newly re-mixed by Brian May, Roger Taylor and John Deacon. |
| GT 05.01.2013 12:46 |
Nice one Walter. |
| Walter B. 05.01.2013 13:09 |
Questions for Gary: do you happen to know if the supposed single for I Can't Live With You already got a cataloguenumber? And was the second single going to be Tie Your Mother Down? I don't know if the early tracklisting is based on facts or fiction? Thanks in advance. |
| DLCVinnuendo 05.01.2013 13:21 |
the b sides of NOBY was suspected to be the b sides of ICLWY? |
| inu-liger 05.01.2013 15:49 |
Walter B. wrote: Questions for Gary: do you happen to know if the supposed single for I Can't Live With You already got a cataloguenumber? And was the second single going to be Tie Your Mother Down?How could have TYMD been released as a 2nd single for QR when it was placed as a double-a with NOBY to start off with? |
| GT 05.01.2013 15:54 |
Because NOBY wasn't going to be on the 'Rocks' album and so was not going to be a single. There was no catalogue number for the proposed ICLWY single as I don't think it got that far in scheduling. |
| GT 05.01.2013 16:01 |
Not sure if that early track listing is correct and it would never have been in album order. |
| Walter B. 05.01.2013 16:04 |
Thanks Gary! |
| inu-liger 05.01.2013 16:47 |
GT wrote: Because NOBY wasn't going to be on the 'Rocks' album and so was not going to be a single. There was no catalogue number for the proposed ICLWY single as I don't think it got that far in scheduling.Oh wow. So they initially recorded NOBY not initially knowing what to do with it, then?? |
| the dude 1366 05.01.2013 17:56 |
The programmed drums on the Innuendo version was a bad idea. Roger's real drums on the Queen Rocks version finally gave it some energy. Perhaps deadlines and Freddie being sick had something to do with it. Also, Roger was more of a lead singer in The Cross at the time than a drummer, so perhaps he was a little rusty. |
| Wiley 05.01.2013 19:26 |
I remember reading a tracklist for Queen Rocks that had Ogre Battle and MTRn'R (probably the one listed a few posts above), supposedly tracks that were to be included in the U.S. version of Rocks. It must have been Amazon or someone somewhat reliable because I recall asking a friend in the U.S. to buy a copy for me so I could have this "rare" edition. As it turned out, obviously this wasn't true. Rocks was the first Queen album I anticipated for months, reading online forums and the like. I had been a fan since '92 but didn't have access to music info or Internet until late '95 so when MIH came out it was a surprise to me, seeing a new Queen album for sale. I clearly remember seeing it in a department store and buying it right away. December 31st, 1995. I played it during my family's New Year's dinner party. The only Christmas-y song played that night was "A Winter's Tale". Good times! |
| tero! 48531 06.01.2013 02:51 |
What I find interesting is that the first posted tracklisting is even more biased than the final release... It looks like Seven Seas Of Rhye was only tacked in there because of how bad it looked to completely ignore Freddie. |
| matt z 06.01.2013 05:01 |
I may not be adding anything here to the discussion but ive BEEN seeing HOLLYWOOD RECORDS promos from "ROCKS" circulating for YEARS. ... if I'm not mistaken there were FOUR cds released that included stuff like ogre battle and I need your loving. Ive seen them at AMOEBA but never thought out purchasing something I'd already had for forty bucks a piece . I think they were trying to revamp the queen legacy ad far as rock went. It sorta worked on me. I'd already heard live killers but the album made me track down stuff I might have never pursued. Was this merely to generate buzz?... because hell.... I never even HEARD that stuff playing ANYWHERE. I believe they v were released in simple plain cases |
| cmsdrums 06.01.2013 07:21 |
So Brian's interview confirms my understanding that for the Rock version of I Can't Live With You they used Roger's original acoustic drum takes (that he recorded for the Innuendo version but they were replaced with machines), but were just able to manipulate the feel and flow of these using Pro Tools. Roger did NOT re-record the drum parts (which is clear anyway from listening to it - if he'd redone it several years later the parts would not have been so spot on to the machines on Innuendo, which were themselves based on the original real drum parts!!) |
| cmi 06.01.2013 07:56 |
2 GT: Gary, can you clarify the fact of existence of this 1997 remix of 'Tie Your Mother Down' from the early tracklist version, which wasn't used for the final 'Queen Rocks' trackilst? Why it still wasn't used anywhere else, on ADATR 2CD 2011 edition for example? Thanks. |
| GT 06.01.2013 15:08 |
From what I know TYMD wasn't remixed. |
| Saint Jiub 06.01.2013 16:02 |
GT wrote: From what I know TYMD wasn't remixed. I recall that it was going to be the Trent Reznor remix? |
| Saint Jiub 06.01.2013 16:04 |
GT wrote: From what I know TYMD wasn't remixed. I recall that it was going to be the Trent Reznor remix? Panchgani wrote: I thought it was going to be the Trent Reznor remix??? |
| tomchristie22 07.01.2013 06:06 |
This has been a very informative read. Thanks everyone! |
| Wiley 07.01.2013 11:01 |
matt z wrote: I may not be adding anything here to the discussion but ive BEEN seeing HOLLYWOOD RECORDS promos from "ROCKS" circulating for YEARS. ... if I'm not mistaken there were FOUR cds released that included stuff like ogre battle and I need your loving. ... Was this merely to generate buzz?... because hell.... I never even HEARD that stuff playing ANYWHERE. I believe they v were released in simple plain casesYou may already know this, but here it is. These USA promos are not in any way related to the 1997 Queen Rocks compilation. These were released much earlier, I believe, around the time Queen went with Hollywood Records, not later than 1991. There were 4 "Queen Rocks" volumes issued and, in addition to being available in plain jewel cases, they were also issued in a box. The box can be seen in Queenpedia: link I have seen other Queen and solo promos from Hollywood Records in the 1991-1993 period and they all have the same artwork and they have a sticker that says "When you play it, SAY it", probably aimed at Radio DJ's. |
| inu-liger 07.01.2013 12:57 |
Panchgani wrote:I'm pretty sure that remix was already made in 1991/92GT wrote: From what I know TYMD wasn't remixed. I recall that it was going to be the Trent Reznor remix? |
| matt z 08.01.2013 06:10 |
Wiley wrote:Thank you dr WILEY... ive always thought you and Proto man were the real characters with talent.matt z wrote: I may not be adding anything here to the discussion but ive BEEN seeing HOLLYWOOD RECORDS promos from "ROCKS" circulating for YEARS. ... if I'm not mistaken there were FOUR cds released that included stuff like ogre battle and I need your loving. ... Was this merely to generate buzz?... because hell.... I never even HEARD that stuff playing ANYWHERE. I believe they v were released in simple plain casesYou may already know this, but here it is. These USA promos are not in any way related to the 1997 Queen Rocks compilation. These were released much earlier, I believe, around the time Queen went with Hollywood Records, not later than 1991. There were 4 "Queen Rocks" volumes issued and, in addition to being available in plain jewel cases, they were also issued in a box. The box can be seen in Queenpedia: link I have seen other Queen and solo promos from Hollywood Records in the 1991-1993 period and they all have the same artwork and they have a sticker that says "When you play it, SAY it", probably aimed at Radio DJ's. I know the plain discs had the same diamond art featured on all the original album remasters Curiously. .. I might Angr delusional l again. Did ROCKS have a "volume one" subtitle on the packing label? Ive checked the queenpedia to see those INNUENDO promo hats |
| Walter B. 08.01.2013 06:52 |
In the USA Queen Rocks was promoted with Volume 1 as a subtitle. Here are two examples: |
| Walter B. 08.01.2013 06:52 |
