| guild93 09.11.2012 17:34 |
Is it just me or does Montreal look way better than Budapest?? I guess this Budapest is better than anything we've had before but I'm feeling a bit disappointed by the picture quality by comparison. |
| inu-liger 10.11.2012 03:06 |
The problem is that they only had an interpositive film print to source with for the Budapest release. The negatives are nowhere to be found :( |
| GinjaNinja 10.11.2012 05:35 |
I'm not 100% sure, but I think Montreal may have been shot on 65/70mm film. I'd hazard a guess that the film stock used for Budapest was considerably cheaper and perhaps therefore lower quality. They both look pretty good though! |
| pittrek 10.11.2012 05:46 |
1. Montreal was shot on 70mm, Budapest was shot on 35mm. 2. They were shot on different stocks 3. Both releases have a terrible colour "correction" |
| tomchristie22 10.11.2012 21:36 |
Montreal looks awful |
| Ozz 11.11.2012 03:35 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Montreal looks awfulo_o What does look good according to you? Wembley 86? Ewwwww |
| philip storey 11.11.2012 07:58 |
I should have know better than to buy Hungarian Rhapsody on DVD the picture quality is not much better than the VHS release.Nearley all the same songs as Wembley.See What A Fool I've Been ! |
| jozef 11.11.2012 08:11 |
Why did you buy the dvd when there is alternative blu-ray? DVD format is a waste ... |
| cmsdrums 11.11.2012 09:10 |
philip storey wrote: I should have know better than to buy Hungarian Rhapsody on DVD the picture quality is not much better than the VHS release.Nearley all the same songs as Wembley.See What A Fool I've Been !The setlist on the DVD was no secret beforehand!! Surely having the concert at the right speed, (even if your eyes are insisting on not much quality improvement) is a good thing?!? |
| Hangman_96 11.11.2012 10:07 |
I agree that Montreal looks a bit better than Budapest, but Budapest is great either - it also does look stunning! |
| philip storey 11.11.2012 13:34 |
Of course i knew the setlist before i bought the dvd ,i have not got a blue ray player,my problem is i am collecter of all things Queen.It is just a bit underwellming in my opinion.On a positive note i went to see Brian and Kerry play Corby in the week and it was fantastic. |
| Ozz 11.11.2012 16:55 |
John Deacon looks quite depressed playing in budapest. link I didn't notice that in the old releases of this concert. |
| tomchristie22 12.11.2012 02:29 |
Ozz wrote:Sorry, I probably should've been more exact. The picture quality is very nice generally, it's just the colouration that's way off. You can tell by comparing Rock Montreal and earlier releases of the same film that huge amounts of colour 'correction' has been applied. In my opinion, the change is not at all an improvement.tomchristie22 wrote: Montreal looks awfulo_o What does look good according to you? Wembley 86? Ewwwww EDIT: I found examples! Original: link Recoloured: link The difference when you compare those two videos is clear. The Rock Montreal restoration looks like it's had some sort of awful instagram-esque filter applied to it. |
| jozef 12.11.2012 03:28 |
tomchristie22 - exactly, you're absolutely right ... |
| pittrek 12.11.2012 05:41 |
I don't understand the modern trend to re-colour EVERYTHING for Bluray. Because colours on both releases suck. Actually it's hard to find a Bluray which doesn't have f****d up colours |
| Bad Seed 12.11.2012 10:47 |
I think the colours on Hungarian Rhapsody are great! |
| popy 12.11.2012 13:41 |
Bad Seed wrote: I think the colours on Hungarian Rhapsody are great! X2. On VHS the colours are washed out, to yellow. Hungarian Rhapsody has more true-to-life skin colours. I think that even there's a filter on VHS release that erases (in some songs) pink colours. Look at Bohemian Rhapsody on Wembley. Freddie is on the piano and has pink and blue lights on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNeNRG3FpCg Now let's look at Budapest Blu-Ray/DVD. Although the lightning rig is smaller than Wembley, the lights are a small version than the bigger stage version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r27rWqh6kN0 Now Budapest VHS. Where's pink lights on Freddie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1OxNccvEkk A Kind Of Magic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-CORnWpHWg Hungarian Rhapsody version. Skip to bass solo (3m30s) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLxN0wpFoP8 (Skip again to bass solo) VHS version with very little ammount of pink, and a very washed out blue. So, Budapest VHS has the right colours, and Wembley and Budapest Blu-Ray/DVD the wrong ones? I really don't think so. I think that colours on Hungarian Rhapsody are great. I think the VHS colours are WAY wrong. I can't really tell if it's to yellow-ish, to washed out or to brighter, all all of them, but are way wrong. The videos i posted prove it. I definitely prefer Hungarian Rhapsody colours. |
| earwig 13.11.2012 19:19 |
I agree with Popy and Bad Seed. The negative people in this thread are assuming the original VHS releases had the CORRECT colours but maybe they were always wrong to begin with and have only now been corrected for the new Blu-Rays?! And who decides what is the definitive version anyway? I suggest the one with the best skin/flesh tones - i.e. the latest releases! |
| emrabt 13.11.2012 20:46 |
Earwig the latest releases are tinted yellow. Eagle rock tint all of their stuff blue or yellow, No idea why. link |
| tomchristie22 13.11.2012 23:49 |
^ Exactly. There's absolutely no way that what's in Rock Montreal could be called natural skin tones. |
| pittrek 14.11.2012 01:04 |
popy wrote:First of all, I have no idea why do you use a bad VHS transfer as a video reference ? The youtube video is NOT how the VHS looks like.Bad Seed wrote: I think the colours on Hungarian Rhapsody are great!X2. On VHS the colours are washed out, to yellow. Hungarian Rhapsody has more true-to-life skin colours. I think that even there's a filter on VHS release that erases (in some songs) pink colours. Look at Bohemian Rhapsody on Wembley. Freddie is on the piano and has pink and blue lights on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNeNRG3FpCg Now let's look at Budapest Blu-Ray/DVD. Although the lightning rig is smaller than Wembley, the lights are a small version than the bigger stage version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r27rWqh6kN0 Now Budapest VHS. Where's pink lights on Freddie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1OxNccvEkk A Kind Of Magic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-CORnWpHWg Hungarian Rhapsody version. Skip to bass solo (3m30s) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLxN0wpFoP8 (Skip again to bass solo) VHS version with very little ammount of pink, and a very washed out blue. So, Budapest VHS has the right colours, and Wembley and Budapest Blu-Ray/DVD the wrong ones? I really don't think so. I think that colours on Hungarian Rhapsody are great. I think the VHS colours are WAY wrong. I can't really tell if it's to yellow-ish, to washed out or to brighter, all all of them, but are way wrong. The videos i posted prove it. I definitely prefer Hungarian Rhapsody colours. The same video you posted : link proves that there ARE pink lights on Freddie's head & back (1:41) and blue lights on the bottom, just like anywhere else. The second example (A Kind Of Magic) shows that the VHS sourced clip is either desaturated or the BluRay is oversaturated. Check this video : link - this is a MUCH better representation of how the tape looks like. Go to 54:48 for the John Deacon segment. Also go to 17:20 for the bass solo in Magic. Now go to the beginning of both videos : Magic in Budapest : link Hungarian Rhapsody : link Check for example the part where the flag is in the wind on the stadium at the beginning. Or check the first video at 00:00:28 and compare it to the second video on 00:01:12. Do you really like pink skies ? Or compare the people in the next scenes. Or check the opening shot of Freddie, in the first video the lights behind him are yellow (correct), in the second video the lights behind him (the right bottom corner) are almost green. Do you see the stripes on Freddie's vest ? They don't look correct on any video, but they look better on the old one (more real to the real vest). Go to the next shot, the first shot of Brian. On the original video Brian's vest is white, in the new video it's blue, and you can clearly see that the whole image is shifted to blue. Etc, etc, etc. I still prefer the original colours, they look much more natural. The new Bluray was recoloured by Thomas Urbye and Jason Wallis and I can't say I'm impressed with their work |
| cmsdrums 14.11.2012 03:55 |
On the subject of picture quality, why have they used stills pictures in the booklet of such poor quality? - they are nearly all blurry and washed out and not very inspired selections. On a REALLY pendantic point, another error in the booklet: it says Queen "ARE" Freddie, John, Roger and Brian. This should either be Queen "WERE" Freddie, John, Roger and Brian, or it should read Queen "ARE" Roger and Brian!!!! |
| Vocal harmony 14.11.2012 05:58 |
It's pointless comparing colours between Wembley and Budapest. Wembley was shot mostly in day light or fading day light. Budapest was shot later at night in the dark. The stage at wembley was much bigger than the European shows. Using the same lighting rig but having it spread out more with longer throws to the lighted subject the colours at wembley should be less vivid and reds, blues and greens particularly will tend to look more washed out. Making the comparisons that are being made, both shows would have to be shot under the same conditions with the same sized area being lit which they're not. |
| KevoM 14.11.2012 06:57 |
Vocal harmony wrote: It's pointless comparing colours between Wembley and Budapest. Wembley was shot mostly in day light or fading day light. Budapest was shot later at night in the dark. The stage at wembley was much bigger than the European shows. Using the same lighting rig but having it spread out more with longer throws to the lighted subject the colours at wembley should be less vivid and reds, blues and greens particularly will tend to look more washed out. Making the comparisons that are being made, both shows would have to be shot under the same conditions with the same sized area being lit which they're not.Erm... and the biggest differeneceof all?.... One was shot on 35mm film the other on betacam sp video tape. |
| earwig 14.11.2012 11:37 |
acmsdrums wrote: On the subject of picture quality, why have they used stills pictures in the booklet of such poor quality? - they are nearly all blurry and washed out and not very inspired selections. On a REALLY pendantic point, another error in the booklet: it says Queen "ARE" Freddie, John, Roger and Brian. This should either be Queen "WERE" Freddie, John, Roger and Brian, or it should read Queen "ARE" Roger and Brian!!!!...and of course any Americans reading this will say that it should be Queen 'IS' Freddie, Brian etc Pah!!! |
| earwig 14.11.2012 11:41 |
This documentary about the re-release of Peter Gabriel's Secret World Live is very relevant here... link Some cameras were shooting 1.85:1 and some were shooting open matte 4:3 (sorry if this point has already been made) |
| earwig 14.11.2012 11:43 |
emrabt wrote: Earwig the latest releases are tinted yellow. Eagle rock tint all of their stuff blue or yellow, No idea why. linkWell... based on this evidence... I humbly apologise :-( |
| cmsdrums 15.11.2012 01:13 |
The Budapest blu ray picture looks good to me. Montreal however does, as has been said by many since its release, looks 'washed out'. Yes, the picture did need brightening, and a lot of things like the audience and Roger's syndrum unit and stage monitors can now be seen, but they have done this without retaining or improving the natural colours on the film, and have lost most of the 'depth' and glossiness. |
| tomchristie22 15.11.2012 01:14 |
Pf, I doubt there's any need to apologize. Eagle Rock's fault, not yours. Rock Montreal probably would look fantastic without the knowledge that it's so tinted and overly bright... I hadn't realised Budapest was recoloured so much. What on earth is the point? I could perhaps understand it if it actually made it look better, but it doesn't do that either. :/ |
| Battler 18.11.2012 10:11 |
Vocal harmony wrote: It's pointless comparing colours between Wembley and Budapest. Wembley was shot mostly in day light or fading day light. Budapest was shot later at night in the dark. The stage at wembley was much bigger than the European shows. Using the same lighting rig but having it spread out more with longer throws to the lighted subject the colours at wembley should be less vivid and reds, blues and greens particularly will tend to look more washed out. Making the comparisons that are being made, both shows would have to be shot under the same conditions with the same sized area being lit which they're not.Yet comparing Wembley to Budapest, even VHS to VHS, let alone DVD (Wembley) to VHS (Budapest), the colors (such as the pink in Bohemian Rhapsody) are considerably more vivid on Wembley than Budapest, the exact opposite of what you said should be the case. In comparison, they're correctly vivid on Hungarian Rhapsody. As for the pink sky - it's sunset, the sky always gets pink'ish during sunset. To solve the dispute on which version of Budapest has the colors closer to natural, we'd need to find someone who's actually seen the actual film in cinema's in 1986. Edit: The lime green lights behind Freddie, look here: link . This is from Leiden. Same lime green lights. So it seems the DVD/Blu-ray is correct in this case too. |
| popy 18.11.2012 21:42 |
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| popy 18.11.2012 22:24 |
pittrek wrote:popy wrote:First of all, I have no idea why do you use a bad VHS transfer as a video reference ? The youtube video is NOT how the VHS looks like. The same video you posted : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1OxNccvEkk proves that there ARE pink lights on Freddie's head & back (1:41) and blue lights on the bottom, just like anywhere else. The second example (A Kind Of Magic) shows that the VHS sourced clip is either desaturated or the BluRay is oversaturated. Check this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNoSCiPFcts&feature=related - this is a MUCH better representation of how the tape looks like. Go to 54:48 for the John Deacon segment. Also go to 17:20 for the bass solo in Magic. Now go to the beginning of both videos : Magic in Budapest : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNoSCiPFcts&feature=related Hungarian Rhapsody : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Si3H4BuHfe0 Check for example the part where the flag is in the wind on the stadium at the beginning. Or check the first video at 00:00:28 and compare it to the second video on 00:01:12. Do you really like pink skies ? Or compare the people in the next scenes. Or check the opening shot of Freddie, in the first video the lights behind him are yellow (correct), in the second video the lights behind him (the right bottom corner) are almost green. Do you see the stripes on Freddie's vest ? They don't look correct on any video, but they look better on the old one (more real to the real vest). Go to the next shot, the first shot of Brian. On the original video Brian's vest is white, in the new video it's blue, and you can clearly see that the whole image is shifted to blue. Etc, etc, etc. I still prefer the original colours, they look much more natural. The new Bluray was recoloured by Thomas Urbye and Jason Wallis and I can't say I'm impressed with their workBad Seed wrote: I think the colours on Hungarian Rhapsody are great!X2. On VHS the colours are washed out, to yellow. Hungarian Rhapsody has more true-to-life skin colours. I think that even there's a filter on VHS release that erases (in some songs) pink colours. Look at Bohemian Rhapsody on Wembley. Freddie is on the piano and has pink and blue lights on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNeNRG3FpCg Now let's look at Budapest Blu-Ray/DVD. Although the lightning rig is smaller than Wembley, the lights are a small version than the bigger stage version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r27rWqh6kN0 Now Budapest VHS. Where's pink lights on Freddie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1OxNccvEkk A Kind Of Magic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-CORnWpHWg Hungarian Rhapsody version. Skip to bass solo (3m30s) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLxN0wpFoP8 (Skip again to bass solo) VHS version with very little ammount of pink, and a very washed out blue. So, Budapest VHS has the right colours, and Wembley and Budapest Blu-Ray/DVD the wrong ones? I really don't think so. I think that colours on Hungarian Rhapsody are great. I think the VHS colours are WAY wrong. I can't really tell if it's to yellow-ish, to washed out or to brighter, all all of them, but are way wrong. The videos i posted prove it. I definitely prefer Hungarian Rhapsody colours. So let's look at the stadium shots at the begining (before the time-lapse stage construction footage). We all now the Sun is yellow(ish). On the VHS the sky is blue/white. At the time of thoose shots, the sun is coming down, or rising up. People think that the sky should look white when normally, at sun rising or coming down, the colours become yellow(ish), But people still think it should look white, real white, and i don't know why. As for the pink, at least now we see the sky, not a bleeding white thing when the sky is blue and the Sun is yellow(ish). Have you never seen the sky pink(ish) or even orange, specially when there's clouds on the sky and the sun is coming down or rising up? Also, on that 00:01:12 (Hungarian Rhapsody) you see, near the top seats of the stadium, some fences and some other things, but on 00:00:28 (VHS) you don't see it. Oh and i almost forgot the lightning tower that almost disappears because of the over exagerated white in the sky. And don't get me started with Freddie doing the "deh oh's" alone in the stadium when, in VHS you only see a exagerated white sky, but, all of the sudden when you see the Hungarian Rhapsody version, you see the blue sky with clouds on it. Oh, and you notice the stadium lights are turned on, also something you don't see on the VHS. (Hungarian Rhapsody 00:23:24 and VHS 00:21:47). Film to VHS transfer wasn't always great. Now with modern technology, they can make an old film look like new, like it was shot yesterday. The VHS looks like what a transfer of that time (the 80's) normally looks like, bad. I think that VHS is wrong. Way to much over-bright white(ish). Decisions where made for both releases, some are good, some are bad. But of course these are all opinions, and everyone has their own. My opinion: I prefer Hungarian Rhapsody. If you ask me, i prefer it with some blue tint, than an over brighted white image that doesn't let me see the sky (Freddie's "deh-oh's") or doesn't let me see what Roger is wearing when Freddie is signing the book in his segment. (00:19:57 on VHS, also look at the book, 00:21:29 on Hungarian Rhapsody, also, is Brian wearing white or blue?) Blue tint or over-brighted white? Give me blue-tint. I also didn't like what they've done to Rock Montreal, but this time i think they've done a better job, although i think it could be better. |
| john bodega 19.11.2012 02:00 |
I don't think the Budapest recolouring is as egregious as the Montreal one. |
| KevoM 19.11.2012 08:07 |
Vocal harmony wrote: To solve the dispute on which version of Budapest has the colors closer to natural, we'd need to find someone who's actually seen the actual film in cinema's in 1986.I saw it at the cinema way back in 1987/88. I can't remember what I had for breakfast two weeks ago or what SkyFall loked like in 4k last week!! let alone what colours a film looked like 26 YEARS AGO!!! NOBODY can remember that, so a pointless question. Same logic applies to some of the Jimmy Saville 'abuse' victims from 40 years ago. (ching ching ££!) |
| Vocal harmony 19.11.2012 09:32 |
KevoM. You've somehow miss quoted me. I didn't ask that question. My original post was pointing out facts about lighting. What I was trying to point out was the effect the lighting at each show would have. If this doesn't come over on Video or DVD then quite simply neither of these shows appear as they did if you were there on the night. Even the original Cinema footage could be wrong. As far as Jimi Saville goes I think any victim, whether the crime occurred a week ago or forty years ago, wouldn't forget as much as they may want to. |
| john bodega 19.11.2012 13:57 |
"Same logic applies to some of the Jimmy Saville 'abuse' victims from 40 years ago." WOAH. You seriously think that's the kind of thing that someone wouldn't remember clearly? Mentalist. |
| Killer_queenIII 30.11.2012 05:14 |
i'll agree that Hungarian Rhapsody is an huge improvement over the Magic in Budapest VHS in the visual and audio spectrum, and it made up for the over-saturated "Instacrap"... i mean "Instagram"-ish tint from Rock Montreal. The video looked liked it was filmed recently (btw Popy, you asked if Brian is wearing white or blue? He's wearing white. His shirt reflected the blue light surrounding him). The sound is impeccable (I'm glad they finally fixed the frame rate of the audio). Overall, it's a bloody good concert. The only thing that disapointed me is that they still didn't show the FULL concert. it was like Rock Montreal all over again when they omitted ABTD and Hello Mary Lou, shortened Crazy Little Thing, the Guitar Solo, and Love Of My Life for the video release. I was hoping... well WE were hoping they would finally see the light of day in the big screen when it was premiered in theaters. But at least the CD version made up for those omissions. That means we still have to put up with the unofficial multi-angle version of Budapest if you're aiming for the complete Budapest experience, but sacrificing the quality. |
| DLCVinnuendo 30.11.2012 07:35 |
i have the montreal blu ray and the budapest dvd, here in brazil, the blu ray doesn't arrive, and for me, it is the 2 shows most beautiful filmed shows that i see by queen |
| Biggest Band On The Planet 06.12.2012 17:41 |
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| Biggest Band On The Planet 06.12.2012 17:42 |
Check out the review below the 5.1 mix is NOT lossless. link |
| jones904 07.12.2012 18:57 |
i saw the you tube clip and it looked good as did the clip of Freddie and the band near the acropolis in greece but on tv it looked crap how come you tube looks better than tv? montreal is good on tv though. i bought the new concert i will look at it when it arrives |
| 4 x Vision 08.12.2012 08:52 |
I think Budapest looks much better... more life like. Montreal is sharp, but the colours are a mess at times. It looks cartoon like at times. The sound on Budapest Blu-Ray is a tad better imo than Montreal, but that's not saying that Montreal is bad. The vocal harmonies on Budapest are wonderful and clear... especially the pre Bo Rap covers. I love the playfulness of Freddie on CLTCL too!!! |
