| Mentime 01.11.2012 04:55 |
Global hit “Gangnam Style” creator, Psy from Korea, declares his admiration for Queen frontman Freddie Mercury. As being interviewed by an Argentinean newspaper, among some other revelations, YouTube's revelation, Psy (real name Park Jae-sang), talked about his music formation and childhood. What kind of music did you listen to as a kid? "My idol and role model was always Freddie Mercury of Queen. I can not match his ability to write songs, but I learned of his showman skills based on videos. Right now I'm number one in Britain, so if I have a chance to travel want to meet Queen and tell how his music inspired me. Queen and Bon Jovi, Aerosmith and Guns N 'Roses ... I have a mania for rock bands. I do some percussion." Source: link |
| brENsKi 01.11.2012 12:22 |
what's the polar opposite of "ringing endorsement" ? would it be "affirmed discreditation"? cos that's what this guy's admiration amounts to |
| john bodega 01.11.2012 12:32 |
"I can not match his ability to write songs, but-" And when he said 'but', that's where he lost me. There is no 'but'. You can't match Freddie's *anything*, whether it's songwriting or showmanship. I don't really understand the fascination with this fatface, but I'm glad that it's waning already. Fucking wish the Korean War had never ended. |
| brENsKi 01.11.2012 12:43 |
it's funny what people will buy |
| DLCVinnuendo 01.11.2012 13:13 |
always the same, artists talking that Freddie was a inspiration for then, i saw this movie before... |
| inu-liger 01.11.2012 13:30 |
Zebonka, technically the Korean War NEVER ended, it's still under an armistice :-P |
| waunakonor 01.11.2012 13:32 |
If you like hard rock so much, why does your song barely sound anything like rock? |
| inu-liger 01.11.2012 13:34 |
And quality of content aside, shouldn't we Queen fans be appreciating the amount of influence Freddie has going for himself even 20+ years after his death? Come on! You cannot say that about most other major rock musicians! |
| Bresam 01.11.2012 17:51 |
Yeah. Fuck any Freddie praise, right? |
| brENsKi 01.11.2012 18:15 |
praise only means something if it comes from a worthwhile source... imagine having Kim Jong-un praising Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for his efforts in the field of international peace....it's really worth f*ck as currency of any kind well this praise for freddie may as well have been an insult for the credibility of the orator. |
| Bresam 01.11.2012 18:25 |
Comparing a dictator to an entertainer makes very little sense to me. Music is music. |
| brENsKi 02.11.2012 11:11 |
it's not a comparison...it's an analogy. huge difference as one relies on parallels the other is a direct comparison. the point being that using that fat fuck as a "praise generator of all things freddie" amounts to no genuine praise at all...real praise of any worth comes from contemporaries and betters...not bottom feeders but you knew that anyway. you just wanted to attempt to validate your stance...which doesn't work. to put it in simpler terms you might understand.... what's worthy praise... consider you paint a picture...where would you prefer praise? a recognized artist or toddler who does potato stencils on paper? |
| john bodega 02.11.2012 11:30 |
"Fuck any Freddie praise, right?" Coming from this guy or Lady Gaga? Absolutely. It might not occur to y'all immediately but this kind of shout out is a subtle psychological trick; an underhanded way for an artist or entertainer to say "Oh gee I'm NOWHERE NEAR as good, but ..." and subconsciously set themselves up for a comparison. It's a bunch of Taylor Swift-style false modesty. It's the 'but' that gives the game away. "Well I'm nowhere near Freddie as a songwriter BUT-", and then he starts to talk about showmanship, as if he actually has any to offer. I guess the standard retort here would be for you to say 'yeah well he has millions of views and has been playing some pretty big shows'. I'd be willing to wager that a lot of those millions were people laughing at him or thinking he was a fucking idiot, and as for the big shows - if I was Psy I'd just pay someone else to put on the retarded suit and sunglasses and do the show for me. You literally wouldn't be able to tell the difference, which says a lot for his showmanship. Sorry; I know that in writing this looks like a disproportionate response to a short and innocuous quote, but I simply don't approve of hacks like this borrowing Freddie's name so that they can set themselves up for subliminal comparisons. The guy should just let the music speak for itself- Oh. |
| GratefulFan 02.11.2012 13:44 |
I think there is a reasonable comparison with Gaga as a songwriter...not as a peer or an equal but certainly in the wider league. If you consider songs like 'Speechless', 'You and I', even 'Hair', she's unquestionably a real musician, unquestionably capable of good songwriting. Any lumping together of her and Psy well misses the mark I think. |
| tomchristie22 03.11.2012 00:24 |
Lady GaGa's demonstrated that she has the potential to be a good musician, but for some reason, out of either her or the execs choice, her image and music are mostly horribly generic and manufactured. Does the Psy guy actually think he's any match for Freddie in terms of stage presence and charisma, just because of a lame dance move that went viral? Humm. |
| john bodega 03.11.2012 03:39 |
"Any lumping together of her and Psy well misses the mark I think" It really doesn't. I'm well aware of what she was like when she got into the business and what music she's capable of making, but there's an awesome disparity between that Lady Gaga and the one who's been rather generously compensated for her time in the last couple of years. Her attitudes are nauseating ('oh look I wrote a song about suicide, how deep am I', skimming past the fact that the lyrics were of high school quality) and her interviews utterly vapid. I understand that's just part and parcel of the dressage act that she has to go through to invent a brand and keep it marketable, but no one ever said anything about having to like that nonsense or buy into it. She's another underwhelming artist who I'm rather sick of hearing apologies on behalf of. So many of the arguments in defence of her start with 'Well you have to admit that-' nope. I hear the same thing in reference to Psy and his ridiculous viral video, and it's bollocks. The only potential difference here between Lady Gaga and Psy is that one might be making dreck out of choice and the other might just genuinely suck. I've never been of the attitude that Lady Gaga is a talentless person - I've seen the early videos, I understand what her capabilities are. If anything that just gives one a bigger reason to have absolutely no respect for her. It doesn't stop her fans from enjoying the music (such as it is) so there's no problem. |
| GratefulFan 03.11.2012 13:47 |
Lots of room for subjectivity of course, but finding little to distinguish the person who wrote a handful of great songs and more than a few good ones from the guy who wrote Gangnam Style speaks to a certain lack of attention to the full reality of both performers. I had to look up the suicide song as I hadn't heard it. I'd say more weak Art House type lyrics than high school quality, and the bigger problem is that the music is not particularly interesting. She said the song was the most personal and revealing she's written, so if depth is at least in part a function of digging then I guess whether the song succeeds musically or not, any high school quality is in the eye of the beholder. She may give some vapid interviews. I don't know as I don't follow her intently. But the totality of her interviews are far from vapid and the half dozen or so serious ones I've seen of an hour or more thoroughly reinforce my impression of her as a person of serious sensitivity with significant weight to her character. So it's not clear if you've concluded that she is vapid, or just that the interviews you've seen are vapid, but if it's the former again I'd say that you're well off the mark. And if you truly have absolutely no respect for her I'm almost sorry because I think you're missing things that should inform all of us a little about aspects of courage and frankness and perceiving deep responsibility in success. I've thought for a while that there's a gender split at play as well. Some of the things I've heard the guys on here say have made me realize that her appeal is lost on them perhaps because they just haven't lived lives as girls and women and can't connect then to how authentic and perceptive and gutsy she and her music and messages can be. Doesn't make your impressions any less real, just maybe speaks to the idea that neither of those two broad perceptions of Gaga are complete on their own. |
| john bodega 03.11.2012 14:16 |
"you're missing things that should inform all of us a little about aspects of courage and frankness and perceiving deep responsibility in success." Wrong, wrong and wrong. I just find those things from different sources. More compelling to me than they might be to others of course! "I'd say more weak Art House type lyrics than high school quality" Weak really doesn't cover it. "significant weight to her character" Whenever I see her she seems equal parts zonked out on lithium and lodged firmly in some kind of scenario wherein she's gobbled up a little too much of her own press. It is very plainly a subjective thing, as you've pointed out, and if either opinion of her was irrefutable then the other simply wouldn't exist - so it's somewhere in the middle. But that's life. "I'd say that you're well off the mark" I'm really not, though. I don't contend that what she sells isn't marketable - it is. I don't assert that it doesn't communicate with people - it clearly does! I just have a very sensitive nose when it comes to superficial bullshit. The heart of the matter here is that I should probably disregard the pap that has made her super famous and dig a little deeper for the substance. You could say that about any artist. But in this particular instance, the nature of her pop work does not endear her to me sufficiently that I even want to know more about her. If someone told me one day that the arsehole who unleashed Crazy Frog on the world was actually a killer dulcimer player, I still wouldn't want to hear their work. Some bridges just can't be rebuilt. I don't knock her for her skills as a marketeer. It is really a legitimate skill (something I became cognizant of when people were knocking Steve Jobs because he didn't hand build every iMac, iPod and iPhone, as though this somehow made his achievements null and void) and something I honestly appreciate as being well out of my yardhouse. "I've thought for a while that there's a gender split at play as well" There's probably truth to that, although I've always pigeon-holed my music more with a 'time of life' angle than I have a gender one. When I was an angry 21 year old, Quadrophenia (from beginning to end, usually twice in the evenings) made a world of sense to me. It's still a great album, but it's not for me anymore. It's for a point in my life that used to be relevant and is no longer. So far as my favourite female artists go, or the ones that I appreciate the most even if I don't listen to them that often (Janelle Monae, Dusty Springfield, Karen Carpenter, Kate Bush, the Wilsons from Heart) I've never given it too much deliberate thought about what aspect of the female experience that they impart upon me as a listener. I've had an almost totally female upbringing in my family - total momma's boy, 5 sisters, aunties in every corner, etc. etc. There's very little about that side of life that is behind-the-scenes, for me - that doesn't mean it can ever be a personal experience, for obvious reasons, but I really think you'd be taking a dim view of music and art in general if I'm somehow missing that side of things because I don't appreciate Lady Gaga. One doesn't need a Big Mac when there's a good lobster joint right nextdoor. |
| GratefulFan 04.11.2012 17:06 |
Wrong, wrong, wrong how? That you or I find wisdom or inspiration in one place doesn't mean we've lost nothing by missing it in another. Some of the most significant steps forward we take as human beings come from being challenged in our thinking, from first opening our minds and then allowing them to be changed. Regardless, clearly my argument is not that Lady Gaga is such a cosmic fount of wisdom and spiritual enlightenment that we ignore her at our own peril. I understand completely why many people don't appreciate her as an artist. I don't appreciate many artists that I otherwise recognize as talented or musically and/or culturally significant. I've never owned a Michael Jackson CD for example, or anything from Madonna. Probably won't ever buy any Eminem, or a long list of others. But not appreciating her or her output is a different thing than finding her indistinguishable from a trite novelty act, assuming she's vapid, comparing her to processed meat and believing she's worthy of no respect at all. Even with miles of space for subjectivity there are denotations for words like novelty and vapid that do allow a basic shared understanding of meaning that makes some of your conclusions about her frankly silly to me. I find Gaga challenging to my thinking in ways that the Wilson sisters et al never were. There are no barriers to appreciation and respect for Heart, (until you got to the 80s and had to digest songs like "All I Wanna Do is Make Love to You" without choking on vomit and hysterical laughter - give me Gaga's better pop confections over that any day, even though I'm not a pop fan really) where as Gaga's art is defined by markers serious music fans have come to associate with fluff. It's pop, she's half naked most of the time, and when she's not half naked she's half nuts. Sometimes she's naked and nuts. There are many gimmicks that have little to do with music. Yet in all this she's so clearly a serious musician and serious artist who has chosen this much more difficult path to be perceived seriously that I felt challenged to look and listen harder. Through that process there are things I've come to admire. All I meant to say about the Gaga gender divide where it exists is that there are aspects of experience that your tuners are just not going to naturally or easily dial into. It's neither good nor bad, it just is. It could be a much longer conversation, but probably one neither one of us really wants to spend time on, and if I had to pluck out one concept I'd suggest that where some women perceive a strength and fearlessness that does not naturally or culturally come easily for many women and thus deserves acknowledgement and admiration, some men are just going to very naturally see trash and hear static. Most themes expressed in music are universal and so one would not expect to have much in the way of aspects of the female experience imparted upon them as a listener. There are exceptions I suppose. Heart's 'Barracuda' would never have been written if the artists weren't women because the events that inspired it would never have happened to them otherwise. It's equally true of course for unique aspects of the male experience and I'm sure if we thought a bit we could find some songs or art that expressed some of those. I mentioned the song 'Hair' earlier and wonder if your average guy could hear much in that song at all beyond the kind of trite high school level lyrics you've attributed to her previously. I'm going to link to it in a bit, and if you listen notice the woman at the end and her emotional reaction. That song is as sensitive, deep and accurate an expression of that particular aspect of female experience that begins in mid adolescence for many as any I've ever heard. It's an inspired piece of art, but perhaps not one easily universally understood. No problem. But the idea that she's trash? A shitty disposable hamburger? I find those ideas worth opposing. Many of the longer interviews she's done have been on platforms targeted at women: Oprah's Next Chapter, The View, other day time talk shows etc. so while I wanted to link to an interview that might broaden your impressions a little it was challenging to think of one that wouldn't put you to sleep. The only one I can think of right now is one she did last year on Howard Stern. She's a little rougher around the edges on this one, and the fact remains that you and I might simply have really different ideas of what vapid is. I'll post it, and if you're not bored stay with it. If you are and don't finish it, that will be interesting to me as I'll learn something about the relative reliability of my own impressions. The second link is to 'Hair' as mentioned above, one of the songs she did following the interview. Gaga joins the show at about 18 minutes. The patter before is interesting me to me as a casual Stern listener, but may not be to you: link And, Hair: link |
| john bodega 05.11.2012 07:05 |
"But the idea that she's trash? A shitty disposable hamburger?" For me, it's been more a case that she's a capable artist who made a conscious decision to cook disposable trash hamburgers on the surface to further her career. That worked out for her fine - it doesn't make her the devil or anything, just another commercial success. The word 'respect' gets bandied about a lot and I reckon it loses currency if you dole it out to just anyone. I mean, you mention Madonna (someone I'd easily place well below Lady Gaga as an artist, if we're honest) - if the logic runs that I should appreciate someone because they're rich, successful, and have legions of fans who get something from their music, then I'd be offering undue amounts of respect to people who haven't earned it. It's patently obvious that a dill like Madonna doesn't need my respect to sleep at night, and that arrangement works well for me because I don't have any use for her 'music' either, so we're even. I think something that's also probably not apparent is that I don't reserve special disdain for Lady Gaga, or even that Psy toad (although he resides somewhere below Madonna on that musical ladder, if we're honest again). I don't know if it helps to establish a baseline in these discussions, but I don't harbour any kind of extraordinary ill feelings towards Lady Gaga. So it might be more genuine for me to say that rather than outright disrespecting her, I simply don't have any more for her than I might have for a great number of other artists who do nothing for me. The song you linked to ain't a bad one in anyones parlance, which really only makes her other output all the more infuriating for me to contemplate. I willingly concede that this irritation might be tied into a greater dissatisfaction with what musicians need to do to find airplay in this day and age. It illustrates that her priorities as a marketeer are greater than she would be willing to admit in interviews like the one you posted. 'I don't give a fuck about money', or some such, or that time where she basically went 'I'd give it all away tomorrow'. Go on then! Inasmuch as I said I don't have especial vitriol saved up for Lady Gaga, then her decidedly average approach to fame and fortune (ie. nom nom nom gimme all you got) means I don't have any more respect for her than I might for the rest of the popstar roll call at the moment. Nothing personal. She's only getting the respect from me that anyone would if they blurt out idiotic statements about their fortune and then don't really lead lifestyles in line with those statements. If she pulls a Lucas in 40 years and gives away her billions to charity, then that'd be another kettle of fish I guess. "All I Wanna Do is Make Love to You" Hahaha, yeah... that old chestnut. "Eminem" See, that's just another name that people seem to think deserves some kind of respect simply because he's there. Fuck that - he can earn some respect for a change. I'll never forget what my brother-in-law said to me years ago when I'd first met him. He says "Eminem is a great lyricist, he just has absolutely nothing to say". He nailed it right there. "I'll learn something about the relative reliability of my own impressions" Yeah but you see, that's how I feel about my own impressions after having watched the videos. There is no moustache-twirling-villain archetype in my head when I visualise someone like Psy, or Lady Gaga, or Madonna. But to create, maintain and nurture their respective brands, then they have to talk a bit of shit. That makes them average human beings, and not really deserving of any special treatment. More power to them, but I want none of what they're selling. |
| dianamascarenhas 07.11.2012 06:56 |
brENsKi wrote: to put it in simpler terms you might understand.... what's worthy praise... consider you paint a picture...where would you prefer praise? a recognized artist or toddler who does potato stencils on paper?Certainly both, I'm sorry but when you're an artist that's what you think. What matters is to bring happiness to people, no matter how they qualify. I don't care who this korean guy is, I certainly do not appreciate his song, but I guess there are people somewhere appreciating it and getting good feelings about it so, I don't see anything wrong here, I mean, he's not murdering people around or commiting any crime. Of course he will never be Freddie, nor this guy nor any other. Freddie was and still is absolutely unique. That's it. |
| Wiley 07.11.2012 11:44 |
You guys have disturbingly passionate discussions in these forums... just sayin' ;) |
| john bodega 08.11.2012 04:59 |
I dunno about passionate. But it beats being stuck in a conversation where clearly no one gives a toss! |
| john bodega 08.11.2012 05:01 |
"What matters is to bring happiness to people" As far as receiving job satisfaction (or money) in return for making 'art', I really have to say that it only feels good if you can justify the idea that you've really earned it. If I play a shit gig, I feel like an asshole for getting money at the end of it. That might just be me though. |
| GratefulFan 08.11.2012 07:01 |
Zebonka12 wrote: I dunno about passionate. But it beats being stuck in a conversation where clearly no one gives a toss!There is something about the way Gaga is criticized and the things she is criticized about that makes me want to go 'Hey! Hang on there! That's unfair." Is that too much passion over somebody largely irrelevant to where most of our music lives are centred? Maybe. But there is something about her circumstance that makes me feel oddly protective in bursts. It took me a couple of days to get back to this thread because I hadn't watched the video I posted in some time and couldn't from recall make any sense of the conclusions you had drawn from it. Having rewatched it, I sill can't. :) I've had a long fascination with the subject of human behaviour and information processing and our many vulnerabilities on that front. One of the umbrella concepts is that of confirmation bias, which among many other things predicts that opinions once formed are highly resistant to new information. It also leads people to interpret neutral or weak data as firmly supporting their view. So I think it is so interesting that you and I could watch the same thing and feel equally strongly that it's evidence for really pretty disparate beliefs. Rock fans instinctively sniff out musical and personal inauthenticity like hounds. It's what drove me mad about Adam Lambert in part for example, but I have never perceived it from Gaga. I can't understand what she said that made you conclude that she was living a lifestyle that belied her words about not caring much about money and the shallow aspects of fame. What lifestyle? She lives in the same small apartment in Brooklyn that she lived in before she had any money or success. She said almost all the money goes back into her tours, so there really isn't any to give back as you imply she could. The overwhelming impression I have always had of her is that of a very grounded, real person who valued valuable things. Friends, family, integrity, nerve, hard work and her art. That only a relatively small amount of her output overlaps my personal tastes doesn't mean she has poured her soul into it any less. Just out of interest I wish we had somebody truly neutral and largely indifferent to watch that interview and share their impressions. I know one of my vulnerabilities is that I tend to believe the best of people by default and heavily weigh the value of people's words because I'm pretty frank and straightforward and thus assume it in others, perhaps naively. |
| dianamascarenhas 08.11.2012 09:04 |
Zebonka12 wrote: "As far as receiving job satisfaction (or money) in return for making 'art', I really have to say that it only feels good if you can justify the idea that you've really earned it. If I play a shit gig, I feel like an asshole for getting money at the end of it."Well, yes you're right. I feel exactly the same way. Amidst dozens of performances it's impossible that none of them comes out with an error. Even if no one else notices it, you notice it and it troubles you. But then you learn to get over it, specially if people keep praising you. Then you will eventually understand you're meant to get over it and make it right the next time, anyway you're human and mistakes happen even to the best. Another completely different thing is the process of composing, either in art, music, dance, etc. That is something you do because you truly believe in it, you live it with all your heart. Actually, it's quite difficult that your joy and contentment for your creation might last more than 24h, or even a couple of hours. You somehow keep pursuing something that never really stays, like an horizon. That's why you keep on making it. That's why it's never enough. Time is never enough. A life time is never enough. You wish you could live a thousand years so as to be able to let it all come out. About the korean guy, certainly there are people enjoying it, because I see them posting his video on social networks all the time so, even if just to make fun of it, they somehow find it useful. Now, either the korean guy truly believes his work and is being honest, or he just sold his soul to devil and is taking his profit out of the negotiation. |
| Day dop 08.11.2012 11:35 |
For what difference it makes, this might as well have said: "Mister Blobby from Crinkly Bottom, declares his admiration for Queen frontman Freddie Mercury" |
| john bodega 09.11.2012 10:37 |
"because I hadn't watched the video I posted in some time and couldn't from recall make any sense of the conclusions you had drawn from it. Having rewatched it, I sill can't." That's really a failure in your ability to comprehend the basis of the opinions of others, then - inasmuch as I readily concede it might be a failing of mine that I can look at the same videos as you and get a different message. "the subject of human behaviour and information processing and our many vulnerabilities on that front" It's an interesting topic, no doubt, and one I've spent more than my share of time reading about - but it's not really relevant here. One can't blame every disagreement on a logical fallacy. Bringing up confirmation bias here might make more sense if I was unable to make concessions for Lady Gaga's abilities, but that simply isn't the case. I know that she can play instruments, I know that she can sing. She's possessed of the abilities that you need in order to create and sustain a brand. I wouldn't ever describe her as 'boring', either. There is a great distinction between that and 'average' which is a word I might've used (I can't remember). Musical talent and marketing abilities don't exactly make her special - fine - so one has to rely on what aspects of her personality come through interviews or Twitter or whatnot. Personally, that stuff leaves me cold. I'm just not buying it - I'm more than open minded enough to accept that new information would change that, but it's not forthcoming right now. Living in the same old Brooklyn apartment is meaningless when you consider she's someone who travels the world in her profession. Regardless, it doesn't raise or lower my opinion of her. Her domicile is her own business and she has her own reasons for picking it. It's the same with her paying for her fathers medical care - it doesn't raise or lower my opinion because I think *everyone* should be like that. Anyone who wouldn't do the same thing (given the same personal fortune) is an asshole. "She said almost all the money goes back into her tours, so there really isn't any to give back as you imply she could" You may have read too much into the words 'Go on!' in this instance. I don't actually care if she keeps her money or gives it all to a Badger foundation. I don't begrudge people for wanting to be rich. Bono, for instance - it doesn't bother me that he's a tax dodging turd who wears his own arse for a hat. I just don't want to listen to someone who is dealing in that kind of mulah to be talking about 'easy come easy go!'. It's disingenuous - once you cross that $$$ threshold, your opinions on what it's like to be like the rest of us are moot. Just get on and do your job. (This is more in reference to Bono, by the by). I suppose the more complete sentence that I should've written was : "Go on, give away your money - but for fucks sake stop talking about it". Near as I can tell, what makes you protective of Lady Gaga here is your possible perception that I'm running her down or something. That's unfortunate because really, my opinion isn't all that negative at all. It's just rather average - sending me a link to a solo performance of hers or an interview isn't going to reaffirm some existing idea in my head that she's a horrible witch, or convince me that I had it all wrong and that she's deserving of a lot more admiration than I've shown. I have mostly the same opinion of her that I did before - she isn't extraordinary. That *really* isn't a slight on her good name by any stretch. I've just been lucky to meet a lot of talented people in my life; some of them great, some of them bastards, some of them downright insane (literally). It takes something special for me to go batty over, and unfortunately most of my special somethings are dead and I'll never get to see them. : Having said all of that, it might be my assertion that she isn't extraordinary which you find objectionable - I can only assure you as sincerely as the written word can allow that I don't say 'she's not that great' as some kind of underhanded insult. 'Less than extraordinary' leaves a lot of room for a good amount of talent. Quite honestly I was in the wrong citing Lady Gaga in this thread as a comparison to Psy in the first place - I was merely reaching for someone who had made the mistake of attempting to invoke Queen once too often. In hindsight I should've said Katy Perry, because she really is shit on a stick. Musically speaking, that is. |
| john bodega 09.11.2012 10:40 |
"About the korean guy, certainly there are people enjoying it" I think it's just another embarrassing moment of mass hysteria. I caught a glimpse of some big audience watching this Psy fellow do his ridiculous thing on stage, and like I said - these people are just there to huddle together and make a lot of noise. It doesn't matter what's on the stage. It could be me with an Asian mask on up there and they wouldn't know or care. |
| GratefulFan 11.11.2012 21:38 |
Hope it was clear that I wasn't 'diagnosing' confirmation bias in you, but considering the concept in general. I have a well established opinion of Lady Gaga and beyond that I can also feel "protective"(!) of her, a recipe for potential confirmation bias for sure. It just interests me that we would seem to value the same general things in artists and people and yet see her pretty fundamentally differently. I think I don't understand the basis of your opinion because it seem to me to be rooted in something like 'I know she said that and did this, but I don't believe her'. I guess the 'well, why don't you believe her' is what is of interest to me. I don't think she's extraordinary, though I think of her as a real musician and think also that many of her decisions certainly aren't common. It's not common for people who had her success to linger very long in the same small apartment they did before they had access to millions of dollars, regardless of their tour schedules. It's not particularly common for pop stars of her ilk to compose their own music and lyrics and vision. It's not common for female pop artists to present themselves as such broadly ranging performance art and be willing to eschew a degree of attractiveness a lot of the time. It's not common to have the deep success she has had with reaching and empowering young people made vulnerable through bullying or independent spirits. All this of course feeds her success and her fortune and she certainly regularly plumps her own legend, but driving ambition and commercial success does not necessarily exclude artistic integrity. If she really believes in the cultural value of pop music and pop performance art and pours every last instinct and her artistic soul into it, isn't that artistic integrity? If she walks the walk when it comes to her expressed values isn't that personal integrity? I think she contributes too with what I see as a raw, reflective and unapologetic honesty. She's earned my respect is what it boils down to I guess, even though I'm not a fan of most of her output. In that I've come to perceive some criticisms of the nature of her talent and person to be generally unfair. Things like the degree of that talent, her judgement, her taste, her music, her general contribution to the culture are all perfectly subjective, but things like personal and artistic integrity should be less so. People generally have shared perceptions of what honesty and integrity should look like in anybody. I've observed criticisms of her for a long while that don't to me match the facts on the ground as I see them and that has been puzzling to me so I'm genuinely grateful to have had an extended conversation about this with you and appreciate your insight even if I don't quite get all of it, which as you noted is no failure of yours. So thanks. As an aside, I thought her statement accompanying a donation to hurricane relief was interesting. link. Not extraordinary, but interesting. |
| john bodega 12.11.2012 02:03 |
"I think I don't understand the basis of your opinion because it seem to me to be rooted in something like 'I know she said that and did this, but I don't believe her'" I'd probably amend that to 'I know she said that and did this, but it doesn't leave me with an appreciably higher impression of her because I'm picky that way'. But point taken! |