| Sebastian 29.10.2012 05:29 |
Mike confirmed that all Queen members had had uncredited appearances on Barcelona, which makes sense considering the later sessions of the album coincided with those for The Miracle, not to mention that Shove It and Back to the Light were sometimes being done at the same studios. It also makes sense that they weren't credited and it wouldn't be the first or last time such a thing happens in music. So, this is all conjecture, but where do you think those cameos are? IMO: Roger: BV's on the title track (with Mike Moran), drums on HCIGO and TGB (the latter also BV's perhaps). John: Bass on TGB (it sounds very Deacy). Brian: BV's on TGB. |
| FlorianS 29.10.2012 07:57 |
I think John was credited for playing the Bass in How can I go on. Strange not to mention all the credits of the Band members. |
| silver_salmon 29.10.2012 08:24 |
if I'm not mistaken...the original cd single of TGB has a mention about John Deacon, could be?. I don't have it, but I remember having had it in my hands around the 90's |
| 1sharppencil 29.10.2012 10:50 |
john deacon DID get a credit for playing bass! Only on "How Can I Go On" - why the others didn't... as for the credits on "Bad Guy" - that's a story right there! |
| Sebastian 29.10.2012 10:53 |
Yes, he did, that's why that one's not a cameo and, as such, didn't get a mention on my post. |
| 1sharppencil 30.10.2012 15:04 |
seb - I'd bet on some percussion by Rog on the title track or/and others - prob. no drums |
| Sebastian 30.10.2012 15:13 |
It was actually Frank Ricotti, a friend of Mike's, who played percussion on the title track. HCIGO and TGB have drums, which I strongly suspect could be Roger's, especially because they have those dynamics with the bass that only Roger + John create together (e.g. on some Elton John's songs). |
| cmsdrums 30.10.2012 15:45 |
Are the drums on How Can I Go On and The Golden Boy 'real' or programmed Seb? (I'd always just assumed they were programmed due to everything else being synth generated). |
| Fireplace 30.10.2012 19:28 |
Does anyone know which of the other Queen members played what on Mr. Bad Guy? I know about Brian on the original version of She Blows Hot And Cold, the rest is a mystery to me. |
| Sebastian 31.10.2012 01:11 |
He thanked them for staying out of it, so I guess they didn't play or sing anything. |
| Sebastian 31.10.2012 01:13 |
cmsdrums wrote: Are the drums on How Can I Go On and The Golden Boy 'real' or programmed Seb? (I'd always just assumed they were programmed due to everything else being synth generated).Personally, I think they're real and I think they're Roger. Programmed drums sounded really shitty in comparison (e.g. One Year of Love, Party, Headlong, the album version of Driven By You). Not everything was synth-generated. Piano was always real (and phenomenal), and for both songs bass is real as well (John's only credited for one but I'm sure he played on both). |
| cmsdrums 31.10.2012 07:43 |
Cheers. I always thought Headlong (especially after listening to the early versions with the percussion stripped out) was Roger playing live - there are several subtle nuances in there which I didn't think a machine could capture. I agree with One Year of Love and Driven By You; horrible sterile sounds! I actually think the programmed drums on Party however suit the song, and to my ears it sounds like Roger comes in on top of them during the guitar solo for a bit (same with Staying Power where there is some real playing over the big horns break). |
| 1sharppencil 31.10.2012 12:47 |
Seb - actually the bit you mention in the "Bad Guy" notes is not true - the other band members did participate in the sessions - what's on tape I think only Mack knows for sure or the session engineers add. note: more than one person can play percussion on a track :) |
| matt z 01.11.2012 13:08 |
Never new Cameo's on Barcelona.... Always liked Monserrat though.... She's strange...Word up, guys. Thanks for the dig. |
| Ozz 01.11.2012 23:58 |
I never though that being Queen fan would make people to go in almost conspiracy theories about the albums. I think we should trust more than one source to credit some claims, Freddie was quite proud of his solo work mostly because he did it without Queen assistance |
| Gregsynth 04.11.2012 01:13 |
I love the Barcelona album. |
| maxpower 05.11.2012 13:43 |
The Barcelona sleeve notes say Deacon on How Can I Go On & that's it, isn't that enough information for people. Mr Bad Guy states in "Freddie's" notes thanking the Queen members for notes interfering |
| matt z 06.11.2012 02:30 |
*NOT interfering |
| Mr.QueenFan 06.11.2012 10:25 |
edit |
| Mr.QueenFan 06.11.2012 10:26 |
maxpower wrote: The Barcelona sleeve notes say Deacon on How Can I Go On & that's it, isn't that enough information for people. Mr Bad Guy states in "Freddie's" notes thanking the Queen members for notes interferingIt depends on several "contractual" factors. Freddie wasn't credit on "the Cross" singing "Heaven for everyone" but the fans knew it was him. When Queen decided to release their version of the song on the MIH album they asked for permission and the guys from Virgin(?) were somehow surprised because they weren't aware to own a song with Freddie's voice on it. Now, back on topic: -I agree that the Bass from TGB can be John. There are some subtle things that really are his style. -As for Roger, this is what i think: The drums from both TGB and HCIGO sounds like a mixture between programed drums and real drums. I believe that Roger only recorded sounds and little bits so that they could then loop, or use it in small segments. Example (this is taken from youtube videos, where the sound may not be the best, but i was too lazy to go find my CD's :-) On the Golden Boy link i couldn't hear any Bass Drum (kick drum), and if there is one it shure doesn't sound like a natural one. Maybe they were revisiting some techniques from the "Jealousy" sessions - pun intended :-) But on 3.53 when Freddie sings "she forgot..." the She is acentuated with a Roger signature move when he hits and then grabs the cymbal(?). I'm more inclined to think that Roger recorded this sounds for them to use because the performance doesn't really sound natural. On "How can i go on": link The more natural sound of the "drums" in this case is the Bass Drum (kick drum). The only real drums to me start at 0:42 on the chorus of the song mixed with programed drums. So in this case i believe that Roger recorded some Bass Drum rythm that they looped for the verses, and some drumming for the choruses. But even in the chorus the playing doesn't seem too natural, so i'm assuming that Roger recorded some Drum sounds for them tu use, because the acoustic is there, just the feeling isn't. Just my two cents. |
| Sebastian 06.11.2012 17:40 |
It's great to read replies like that. Even one of those makes the whole thing worth it IMO. |
| Mr.QueenFan 07.11.2012 19:34 |
Sebastian wrote: Brian: BV's on TGB.You've got some good ears man! Since the first time i read your post i didn't understand what you meant by BV's (sometimes the brain stops). Only now that i ended my research searching for Brian and concluding that he made some backing vocals on the Golden Boy i understand that BV stands for backing vocals. Since i've made this research let me share it with Queenzone. By the way, this is a great topic and the researching is good to train the ears. I wish more Queenzoners were more interested in this kind of research -maybe they would've gain more respect for the the man who did the score for the Barcelona 2012 edition album- by listening to it! Here it goes: The first time i spoted what i think is clearly Brian was on the song "Overture piccante" at 4:44 to 4:49 : link This segment of the song is from The Golden Boy, and it can be found on 3:22 of this instrumental version: link It has Brian May written all over it, and there are ways to confirm this by comparision- i will do it in a minute. But another thing that caught my attention was the fact that one of the voices of the Backing Vocals on the Golden Boy is the same from Brian May Band from "Back to the light". Her name is Miriam Stockley and she also did backing vocals for "Let me Live" from Made in Heaven. This might be the reason why some sounds on the Golden Boy sounds so "familiar". Since the song was recorded on December 1, 1987 (link is it possible that Brian met Miriam at the Barcelona sessions and invited her for his solo project later? I don't know this, but if true then it means that the sessions they met were the recording of the backing vocals. But here it goes the comparison: Compare the Golden Boy instrumental at 3:22 with: 1- Queen "Let me live" from 0:00 to 0:19, Brian is on the left channel: link 2- Brian May "Driven by you" from 4:08 till the end. link Brian used an harmonizer here, but with this you can check out the characteristics of his voice. 3- Brian May"Too much love will kill you" from 0:12 to 0:20: link I think that if you check out this segments head to head with the segment of the Golden Boy it becomes "obvious" that Brian is in that choir, at least on the oohh's that suite his range. And it will be good for your ears to try to follow Brian in the midle of a choir. Maybe you bacome a Producer some day. Cheers! |
| Sebastian 08.11.2012 13:28 |
Another option, just to consider all possibilities, is that Brian worked with her first (early BTTL sessions were happening at the same time as late Barcelona ones) and/or that someone else (e.g. Mike) suggested her to both. |
| Mr.QueenFan 08.11.2012 19:51 |
Sebastian wrote: Another option, just to consider all possibilities, is that Brian worked with her first (early BTTL sessions were happening at the same time as late Barcelona ones) and/or that someone else (e.g. Mike) suggested her to both.You're absolutely right! As we all know Brian is a proud man of his work. It was clear throughout the years on his soapbox that he likes to be credit, and in some ways likes to give credit when due (e.g. "See what a fool i've been"). He was clearly pissed for not being on the "Mr Bad Guy" album, and for not being co-credit on "It's a hard life". But everytime he talked about Barcelona -that i can remember- he never mentioned his involvement at all. I mean, i'm pretty shure that he's on that clip that i mentioned on my earlier post (but i can be totally wrong!), but if he was indeed on a musical session recording all the backing vocals with those singers i'm pretty shure that by this time he would already stated that. There wouldn't be a major reason for this to be kept a secret, after so many years. Unless his contribute was something that wasn't worthy of mentioning it. So, if indeed is him on that chorus, then maybe he recorded his parts separately. The copy&paste in the studio makes this research even more dificult because Freddie keeping control by not hiring an orchestra also meant that he could throw in some ideas after the thing was donne, and then --copy & paste. This is what i think happened with some sections of that choir section. There are clearly passages that Freddie recorded later- after the chorus session- to fill in the gaps. Example on "The Golden Boy-instrumental version: link From 4:22 - 4:28, this is simply Freddie's voice harmonizing itself like he did on "Love of my life" and the beginning of "Bo Rhap". And then on 4:31, 4:32 before the choire goes "I dare, i dare not name", you can hear Freddie's ONLY harmonies blending into the choire, making it seem like it's from the same source when clearly Freddie did this afterwards. So maybe Brian contribution was to fill in the gaps so to speak, and not in the main choir. And maybe Freddie in a very conscious way wanted them all to be in his last studio album without being Queen. That's why i think you're right, and maybe Brian didn't work directly with her on the Barcelona session. Moving on to John: After hearing that instrumental version i've heard something that has escaped me the other times. At 2:40 John hits his first note, and this is a signature move from John. It reminds me a note he hits on the "millionary waltz". I know we're talking about notes here but for anybody who loves John's playing will know what i mean. I'm pretty shure it's him. In the end i might be wrong about everything i've said but it shure gave me lots of pleasure to rediscover this gems again. It would be nice to have other sets of ears giving some kind of opinion too. |
| Sebastian 09.11.2012 02:12 |
It took him almost forty years to credit himself for bits of SSOR, so maybe around 2028 he'll say he sang on TGB. |
| Mr.QueenFan 18.07.2015 18:23 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: -As for Roger, this is what i think: The drums from both TGB and HCIGO sounds like a mixture between programed drums and real drums. I believe that Roger only recorded sounds and little bits so that they could then loop, or use it in small segments. .After reading the article that featured David Richards (sound on sound magazine 1989) talking about producing Queen's "The Miracle" record, i have no doubt that Roger's drums were used in the "Barcelona" record. The article was shared here: link David says about the drums on the Miracle: "... where there's a synth bass, you're usually listening to sampled drums. All the drum sounds come from Roger's kit, though; " My only doubt was if Roger really recorded samples of himself playing to be used in the studio recordings. Now I have confirmation that he did, and those samples exist, so i'm 99,99% sure that Roger's samples were used in the Barcelona record too. |
| scallyuk 18.07.2015 21:35 |
I asked Miriam Stockley about this he dates are fuzzy, but I can confirm that I, Mark Williamson, Maggie Ryder, Madeleine Bell, Lance Ellington and not quite sure of the last chap's name, worked on the Golden Boy . The Back To The Light album was me, Maggie Ryder and Suzie O'List. Chris Thompson may have also done backing vocals on the album, but I'm afraid that I can't recall much more than that. Sorry I can't be more specific with the timelines. I do however remember the actual recording sessions well. I asked whether Brian was involved in the Golden Boy and she said. Not as far as I am aware. The album was arranged by Mike Moran. When we did the backing vocal sessions, we hardly ever saw the musicians who played on the tracks. If Freddie asked Brian to do a guest appearance on the album, I never knew about it. |
| Sebastian 19.07.2015 01:01 |
That's interesting, the plot thickens indeed. |
| cmsdrums 19.07.2015 05:54 |
scallyuk wrote: I asked Miriam Stockley about this he dates are fuzzy, but I can confirm that I, Mark Williamson, Maggie Ryder, Madeleine Bell, Lance Ellington and not quite sure of the last chap's name, worked on the Golden Boy . The Back To The Light album was me, Maggie Ryder and Suzie O'List. Chris Thompson may have also done backing vocals on the album, but I'm afraid that I can't recall much more than that. Sorry I can't be more specific with the timelines. I do however remember the actual recording sessions well. I asked whether Brian was involved in the Golden Boy and she said. Not as far as I am aware. The album was arranged by Mike Moran. When we did the backing vocal sessions, we hardly ever saw the musicians who played on the tracks. If Freddie asked Brian to do a guest appearance on the album, I never knew about it.Was Peter Straker the chap that she forgot the name of? |
| Mr.QueenFan 19.07.2015 15:51 |
@scallyuk, thank you for your input. It's always nice to read the input of those who were involved. |
| Mr.QueenFan 19.07.2015 15:53 |
P.S- And by the way, you guys did a wonderful job on that track. Superb singing! |
| Mr.QueenFan 24.07.2015 20:18 |
Sebastian wrote: He thanked them for staying out of it, so I guess they didn't play or sing anything.And here's confirmation by Mr. John Deacon. This video is being shared in the announce section by Chiefmouse- It would be great if somebody could translate (it's in Italian) this interview because, for me, it is the first time i see a Queen member talking about Mr. Bad Guy while Freddie was still live. It it had to be the quiet man. link I think John says at 2minute mark that it didn't have any intrference from other Queen members, but i don't know. Maybe some Italian person can help. And this is off topic, but John says at 1:10m something that appears to be that he has co-written a song with Errol Brown from Hot Chocolate. |
| artist_nine 25.07.2015 02:19 |
cmsdrums wrote: Cheers. I always thought Headlong (especially after listening to the early versions with the percussion stripped out) was Roger playing live - there are several subtle nuances in there which I didn't think a machine could capture.I think you are right about Headlong. There is a demo with a drum machine, but the album version features also Roger. Only the 16th note hi-hat sound is from a drum machine, it sounds like Roger plays only quarter notes on the hi-hat. I also agree with you about Party. I think Roger only plays some cymbal accents and snare drum fills (or in light of the David Richards article about the Miracle album, maybe even those are samples). |
| AndreaR 25.07.2015 10:28 |
Not perfect, but the following should be nonetheless a decent translation of the video Mr QueenFan posted (John Deacon's interview dubbed into Italian): 29s: "John, what did you do when Freddie was busy with his solo project?" "Well, basically I got bored, because I didn't do anything during that period of time" 38s: "...but you built your own studio!" "Yes, a small one. But there wasn't enough work to keep me busy all the time. I really got bored since Queen weren't working. For this reason I think that in the future, when we do not work as Queen, I will really have to do something else." 53s: "How come weren't you busy in a solo project as well? "The answer to this question has always been the same: I can't sing, which is true. My singing style is really..." 1m04s: "You could always collaborate with someone..." "Yes, as a matter of fact this is the only thing I could do. These days I have written a song with a chap, Errol Brown from Hot Chocolate. Can you remember him? Anyway, we have only written one track that may eventually be published". 1m:40s: "What do you think of Freddie's album?" "Some parts of the album are disappointing, while I really enjoyed other parts" 1m:55s: "I don't know, it's hard to say... It's something he wanted to do all by himself with no interference from us. "I think he should go on with his solo works, because we (Queen) don't spend enough time working together, we find it hard working together, I think we should experiment different solutions" 2m15s: "Do you find it hard working together? In what sense?" "Well, we argue all the time!" 2m20s: "So you're not such close friends, you don't see one another outside work?" "No, we hang out together sometimes, but when we are in a studio, we immediately start quarreling! We quarrel about everything, and this makes everything very difficult. In order to be able to record only one track, we need a long time. " 4m01: "Who wrote One Vision?" "One Vision has been credited to Queen, but I think it was mainly written by the other three, seeing that when I arrived the project had already started. By then they had already written the song..." 4m15s: "...which was inspired by Live Aid, wasn't it?" "After Live Aid we all felt more confident. Before then, Freddie didn't really feel like entering the studio for six months or a year. But after that (Live Aid), he said: 'Ok, let's do some recording together again and see what happens'" 5m02s: "Do you think you'll play with Queen for the rest of your life? It's been a long time now... "A long time, yes...Ok, let's put it this way: I would like to do that if there's the opportunity" |
| hobbit in Rhye 25.07.2015 11:30 |
Thank you AndreaR, I have put your translation into a subtitle file: http://www.queenconcerts.com/queenzone/1435210.html |
| AndreaR 25.07.2015 13:00 |
You're welcome. Of course I based my translation on the Italian version of John's words. Plus, I'm Italian and vaguely remember that interview, so that should do the trick :-) |
| Mr.QueenFan 25.07.2015 18:12 |
AndreaR wrote: You're welcome. Of course I based my translation on the Italian version of John's words. Plus, I'm Italian and vaguely remember that interview, so that should do the trick :-)You really made my day with the translation :-) Thank you very much! I really appreciate that you took the time to do it. |
| hobbit in Rhye 28.07.2015 12:46 |
Hi AndreaR, could you please help us to translate the added phrases in the last minutes of the longer version (Kurgan version) please? link I have also pm-ed you. Thank you ^^ |
| AndreaR 28.07.2015 15:36 |
Hello there! I have translated the last bit of Kurgan version. Plus I slightly modified the translation of the last question and added the English version of John's greeting at the beginning - which was rather clear anyway ;-) 00s "Hello, Deejay Television" 5m02s: "Do you think you'll play with Queen for the rest of your life? It's been a long time now..." "A long time, yes..." "...Well, for the rest of your career." "Yes, we'd better put it this way. Of course I would like to do that if there's the opportunity, but who knows how long we will go on. However, at present I can't see any reason for us to split up. If some of us are able to work on their solo projects while remaining members of the band, we will continue to work together. It will only be a matter of having good ideas for writing good songs." By the way, if I remember correctly, Deejay Television was not a network (like Mtv) but just a music programme which had been on air for some time in the 1980s on Italia 1 (still belonging to media mogul Silvio Berlusconi). Definitely most of interviews and videos were pop and dance oriented. Now it doesn't exist anymore, but there's a radio of that name. If you need help or have doubts, just ask :-) Cheers, Andrea |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 28.07.2015 17:59 |
Only John. Brian on Africa By Night at the beggining, and it was for Freddie's second solo album, and finally was a Queen song. |
| Sebastian 29.07.2015 03:47 |
Only John is credited but that doesn't mean only John played. There are plenty of things liner notes don't mention. |
| hobbit in Rhye 29.07.2015 14:46 |
Thank you for the translation, AndreaR ^^ Subtitles updated, with the new raw vob file: http://www.queenconcerts.com/queenzone/1435458.html |