oliverd05 18.07.2012 19:49 |
Something came into my head just now and was wondering what you guys thought What actually is the point in not sharing freely?? I know that it makes recordings more "rare" and stuff but really for newbies who wanna build up there collection when Queen have really not been active much for the past 20 years, it's pretty much impossible isn't it?? Also for newbies, trading isn't really helpful at all because as I said Queen havnt toured at all since 1986 so there's no new stuff with which to trade! This website is suppose to be a nice community, if people learned to be generous everyone would be happy because they would have everything and people would just put the recordings up here for people to enjoy and not wait a year down the line or in one of my Friends cases he waited 3 years for a Birmingham 2008 cosmos rocks tour bootleg, I mean it's really sad that people feel the need to keep ahold of their things to an unbelievable level! I for one know deep in my soul that trading can be useful but in some cases can be very cruel to be honest, after the Kerry Ellis & Brian May anthems tour producing practically no result, i admit i pretty much gave up on traders for the reasons I said but never mind. I wasn't expecting the Adam lambert gigs to produce anything other than the official release from Kiev, but thankfully people saw sense and gave them away freely to people who perhaps cudnt make the concerts for whatever reason What is everyone's thoughts on this topic, do we want to have a nice community where everyone is at harmony and recordings and experiences can be distributed kindly and freely OR do we want to have it the way it very nearly currently is, with very little results Thanks guys And keep on rockin! |
Gregsynth 18.07.2012 20:19 |
My take is this: If you recorded/taped a show -- you are free to do what you want with it (it's your recording). If you bought something from a website/auction/event, you are free to do what you want with it (you put your money out to receive something for you). If you receive a recording from someone, but refuse to share it at all--then it's hoarding (because it's not yours). I consider hoarding to be when you keep recordings (or another medium) that you personally had nothing to do with--yet for some reason (and it's mostly dumb reasons), don't want to share it. If there is going to be a succession of material being shared--but won't happen until a specific event or time happens, then it's not hoarding because the intent is to bring out new material (albeit in an orderly fashion). |
tcc 18.07.2012 20:36 |
I think this is just a hobby or interest. We are in it to enjoy ourselves. If a recording is available, just enjoy it. If it is not, there is no need to fret over it. |
The Real Wizard 18.07.2012 21:03 |
Whine whine whine. Entitlement. Gimme gimme more. There are hundreds upon hundreds of recordings to download here - almost all of which were brought to you by collectors who sometimes have to hoard in efforts to acquire more. So ragging on the very people whom you are aiming to trade with (and in public, no less) is a curious choice to have made. I also find it interesting that you are primarily searching for recordings of shows that happened last year, when there are dozens of videos of them on youtube. What makes old recordings collectible is the fact that they are documents of a time when it was a challenge to tape them. These days anyone can do it with relative ease. There are two kinds of people in this world - complainers and doers. If you think you have a better way of accomplishing what is already being accomplished, then stop complaining and do better. If you're after recordings of shows that happened last week, maybe you can start by taping shows yourself, and bingo, trade bait. Or just share them, since that's what you're asking others to do. If not, then take a deep breath, point and click, and say thanks for what has been offered to you here for free. There is plenty of it. |
The Real Wizard 18.07.2012 21:34 |
oliverd05 wrote: trading isn't really helpful at all because as I said Queen havnt toured at all since 1986 so there's no new stuff with which to trade!Then where do all of these lower gen copies and new sources of 25+ year old concerts keep coming from? |
oliverd05 18.07.2012 22:33 |
Yes real wizard but the newbies aren't going to stumble across say a lower generation copy of an old queen recording are they?? Coz I guarantee if you look at the uploaded of every sine queen concert. They're not newbies!!! My point exactly and also look back.... I never once !! Mention entitlement |
The Real Wizard 18.07.2012 23:39 |
Then why are you so interested in trading if you acknowledge that so much is readily available? |
oliverd05 19.07.2012 02:26 |
You've just answered your own question in a previous posting |
thomasquinn 32989 19.07.2012 05:13 |
I don't think you can say that *all* traders are hoarders, but I will say this: I got out of trading music because the traders I did get to know tended to be extremely obsessive about it, and in some cases even paranoid. I did not enjoy that scene, and I far prefer trading communities like Dimeadozen, where the greatest achievement possible is to make something previously unknown public. |
A Word In Your Ear 19.07.2012 06:57 |
I for one, would gladly Trade with any "Newbie" who would have the gumption to record any of the umpteenth gigs that get missed. If everybody on here, who, "Wants, wants, wants," Just for once decided to "Do something about it" & record a gig, there would be so much more going around. The notion of uploading stuff for free, for everyone to have, in an Ideal world is great, but unfortunatey, In the real world, as a Trader,(& I'll speak for other traders too) is, the only way that we can expand our collections is by trading. So I for one, will keep my recordings close to my chest, until, such a time, I feel that I will release them to the Masses. For the record, there are loads gigs that I have shared on here, that would not have surfaced, if I had not have upped them. But what, the leachers on here want, is for me(& others) to upload them 3 minutes after I (we) have recorded them, as if it is my (our) god damn duty to do so. I will carry on trading first & then, later on down the line, if I feel it is time, I do upload. All I can say to all the moaners, is, "Record a gig, do your bit" Doors will open, in the trading circles, if you have something to trade. For the record, You can get good quality lossless/wav recorders, for next to nothing these days. Try "Maplins", "Amazon" or even "Ebay" |
thomasquinn 32989 19.07.2012 08:48 |
The thing is, people *are* right that the 'trading community' is a highly elitist circle, often hostile to outsiders, and that many traders have unsavory characteristics. A close friend of mine who is a collector of video recordings was actually threatened (in person, not over the internet) several times by completely wacko traders. As I said, I don't enjoy that scene. Anyone who does can go ahead and join it, but I can understand those who don't like the trading community very well. Incidentally, it strikes me that the 'hard core' traders of Queen-materials are often much, much worse than the fanatical traders who specialize in other bands. That does worry me a little sometimes. |
Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 19.07.2012 10:49 |
Gregsynth wrote: My take is this: If you recorded/taped a show -- you are free to do what you want with it (it's your recording). If you bought something from a website/auction/event, you are free to do what you want with it (you put your money out to receive something for you). If you receive a recording from someone, but refuse to share it at all--then it's hoarding (because it's not yours). I consider hoarding to be when you keep recordings (or another medium) that you personally had nothing to do with--yet for some reason (and it's mostly dumb reasons), don't want to share it. If there is going to be a succession of material being shared--but won't happen until a specific event or time happens, then it's not hoarding because the intent is to bring out new material (albeit in an orderly fashion).^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said ! GREGSYNTH you are a very wise man ! I do have some stuff sometimes I share something like the Radio reel2reel tape of the Rainbow show... I have this one in a more complete form , a Elektra master copy Reel 2 Reel and it features the 7 tracks in even (way!) better sound as the radio show... Though I d spent a huge amount of money on it , it doesn't feel right to me , that me is the only one who is enjoying this gem! I listnen to it 3-4 times a week in my car to work... that's a 40 minute drive and the recording last also for 40 mins... And I think march Rainbow is the best show Queen played in the 70's. I feel a shamed that I have this for myself only , but on the other side I paid a 4 figure price for it ! Putting it up here will loose the value of the item... Though I have 100's of audio cassettes bought in 70's and 80's with Queen concerts, when the time comes I will browse those again and you will see my batch of upgrades again on this website like I did in the past. Cheers ! |
mooghead 19.07.2012 11:10 |
So if someone has spent years building up their collection they should just give it all to someone who puts up their hand and declares they are now a collector? |
J.C 19.07.2012 11:31 |
I love hoarding, gives me a great feeling. I usually open a bottle of Jack on Friday night, press play on my Monterrey 1981 VHS, and masterbate until I pass out. When I come around about 3am I put on Puebla, and repeat the cycle. Happy days, top of the food chain. |
Micrówave 19.07.2012 12:28 |
mooghead wrote: So if someone has spent years building up their collection they should just give it all to someone who puts up their hand and declares they are now a collector? No, but if your collection is just a bunch of recorded cassettes or CD-Rs, then yes. Most collectors actually own SOME official product, not a bunch of bootleg recordings. So, no, I don't think you should mail me your Flash Gordon picture sleeve so I can hang onto it for a while and then forward it to TQ. But I don't think I should pay YOU for a recording of a band that you paid some guy ten bucks for. |
oliverd05 19.07.2012 12:29 |
Yeahh microwave I completely agree with you |
mooghead 19.07.2012 15:13 |
"But I don't think I should pay YOU for a recording of a band that you paid some guy ten bucks for." So people should give stuff away they have paid for? Even better....?!? |
Hangman_96 19.07.2012 16:10 |
It'll just kill this... spirit of trade... |
The Real Wizard 19.07.2012 16:18 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Incidentally, it strikes me that the 'hard core' traders of Queen-materials are often much, much worse than the fanatical traders who specialize in other bands. That does worry me a little sometimes.Oh god no, not a chance. Zeppelin collectors are 10x worse. link |
Roger's Beard 20.07.2012 04:35 |
oliverd05 wrote: after the Kerry Ellis & Brian May anthems tour producing practically no result..."This tour produced practically no results because (apart from THREE people I know about) no fucker actually had the balls to take some recording equipment and record the shows, yet there were plenty of folks saying they'd been to one and did anyone have a recording. That's why trading still exists to a large degree I think and certainly why some recordings aren't given away freely. It seems to me that it's the same core of people over and over again that record the shows they go to and, when you're taking the risk of being thrown out if you're caught (and it does happen, trust me!), maybe you can understand the reluctance of some folks to constantly give everything away, especially when there are so many people here who demand those shows as if it's their God-given right to be given copies for free. I can relate to your point about newbies not having anything to trade as I was in that position once. Luckily for me though I'd recorded one of Roger's 1994 concerts a few years earlier and had a few off-air TV recordings that I could trade with an American (it was Trancer actually), and he was kind enough to give back more than he took, although he was paid back in full and more with the shows I recorded in 98 & 99. It's also about building relationships and trust with people as well. |
Roger's Beard 20.07.2012 04:45 |
Gregsynth wrote: If you receive a recording from someone, but refuse to share it at all--then it's hoarding (because it's not yours). I consider hoarding to be when you keep recordings (or another medium) that you personally had nothing to do with--yet for some reason (and it's mostly dumb reasons), don't want to share it.I think you'll find that the reason most stuff is 'hoarded' is because a promise has been made to the person who 'gave' you the material to keep it to yourself. Firstly, you don't look a gift-horse in the mouth and secondly you don't bite the hand that feeds... As far as I'm concerned, any 'hoarded' material I may have is not mine to freely do with as I wish, but should the person who gave/traded it with me decide to give it a general release, then that's up to them. Of course, some things do eventually get 'leaked' and that's generally when it has outlived it's useful trading life. Other items that get released, like audience recordings that have lain in someones collection for decades, can simply hav e been done so by someone who isn't that bothered about collecting and simply feels the world should hear them. In an ideal world we would all share things freely, but sadly that's not the case, especially with material that was originally sourced from either the bands archives or an outside contractor who has worked on such material: these people want to get that material out there, but not at the cost of their jobs and so it is traded slowly for years amongst the fabled "Elite"... |
Roger's Beard 20.07.2012 04:47 |
The Real Wizard wrote: What makes old recordings collectible is the fact that they are documents of a time when it was a challenge to tape them. These days anyone can do it with relative ease.If only more people would! |
pittrek 20.07.2012 05:19 |
pootle1 wrote:Well said, Mr.Gregsynth wrote: If you receive a recording from someone, but refuse to share it at all--then it's hoarding (because it's not yours). I consider hoarding to be when you keep recordings (or another medium) that you personally had nothing to do with--yet for some reason (and it's mostly dumb reasons), don't want to share it.I think you'll find that the reason most stuff is 'hoarded' is because a promise has been made to the person who 'gave' you the material to keep it to yourself. Firstly, you don't look a gift-horse in the mouth and secondly you don't bite the hand that feeds... As far as I'm concerned, any 'hoarded' material I may have is not mine to freely do with as I wish, but should the person who gave/traded it with me decide to give it a general release, then that's up to them. Of course, some things do eventually get 'leaked' and that's generally when it has outlived it's useful trading life. Other items that get released, like audience recordings that have lain in someones collection for decades, can simply have been done so by someone who isn't that bothered about collecting and simply feels the world should hear them. In an ideal world we would all share things freely, but sadly that's not the case, especially with material that was originally sourced from either the bands archives or an outside contractor who has worked on such material: these people want to get that material out there, but not at the cost of their jobs and so it is traded slowly for years amongst the fabled "Elite"... |
pittrek 20.07.2012 05:48 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Oh that is a very very sad threadthomasquinn 32989 wrote: Incidentally, it strikes me that the 'hard core' traders of Queen-materials are often much, much worse than the fanatical traders who specialize in other bands. That does worry me a little sometimes.Oh god no, not a chance. Zeppelin collectors are 10x worse. link |
The Real Wizard 20.07.2012 09:43 |
Sad .. or amazing? I find the mudslinging entertaining. |
Marknow 20.07.2012 10:41 |
I often wonder what Freddie or Brian etc would make of this place. A load of idiots, arguing over fuck all I would imagine. It's only a hobby, like stamps or something. |
mooghead 20.07.2012 11:56 |
"It's only a hobby, like stamps or something." Exactly, and what you do with your stamps is completely up to you. |
Marknow 20.07.2012 13:18 |
mooghead wrote: Exactly, and what you do with your stamps is completely up to you.Indeed. |
Gregsynth 20.07.2012 21:26 |
pootle1 wrote: I think you'll find that the reason most stuff is 'hoarded' is because a promise has been made to the person who 'gave' you the material to keep it to yourself.That kind of stuff just kills the spirit of trading and collecting. That's like saying "Oh, you can have this and listen to it, but no one else can." That's the kind of elitist behavior that really gets under my skin. If someone gave me a recording--but asked not to let anyone else hear it, I'd actually refuse to listen to the recording. It would be a completely different story if the recording eventually would be shared among the public, but completely shutting the door on a recording (without the intent of letting anybody hear it) comes off as really elitist. It actually closes the doors on future trades and hurts everybody involved. I'd much rather have the scenario of the original taper keeping his/her own recording to themselves--rather than the original taper giving a copy to someone--but refuses to let them share it. |
Gregsynth 20.07.2012 21:40 |
I'd also like to add that since I'm not a hardcore trader and very young (and haven't experienced all this trading stuff dating back through the decades), I'm probably not "getting it" or missing something about the whole trading/collecting thing. I'm just more of a "together" or a "team person" who wants everybody happy and likes everybody hearing music and new recordings! |
bootLuca 21.07.2012 11:05 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Zeppelin collectors are 10x worse.yes maybe, but they have more SBD recording than us queen collectors |
The Real Wizard 23.07.2012 11:36 |
That's thanks to one person who robbed Jimmy Page in the 80s. We can only wonder what's still underground, and what will forever remain underground. I still say LZ collectors are far worse. |