QueenZone discussion #1314973

Yet these same people see no problem with tax dollars bailing out bankers who caused the financial crisis.

Micrówave wrote: They made that 6 million back (and then some) and was able to pay the government back... making them one of the "good banks".  Go figure.

Panchgani wrote: No - You can go the hospital emergency room where you can find over half of the customers are illegal immigrants.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote:

Panchgani wrote: No - You can go the hospital emergency room where you can find over half of the customers are illegal immigrants.

I think even you realize the idiocy of the above remark. It does show the state of current Republican statesmanship. When faced with any plan by the Democrats, regardless of how good or bad it is, Republicans put their hands on their ears and yell "Socialism! Socialism! Communism! Illegal Immigrants! Atheism! Socialism!"

At least 4 million people are expected to pay a penalty for not having health insurance when the rule takes full effect in 2016, bringing in about $54 billion to help offset the $1.7 trillion, 10-year cost of the act, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Panchgani wrote: Free health care for illegal immigrants cost California over 1 billion dollars per year ... link

GratefulFan wrote: The fact that the US is the last bastion in the first world of this kind of health model should give every American some pause.

Respecting the unique entrepreneurial and independent American spirit does not require linking wealth to health outcomes.

Micrówave wrote: At least 4 million people are expected to pay a penalty for not having health insurance when the rule takes full effect in 2016

Micrówave wrote: That's ok... they're already counting the ways to make money off this....

At least 4 million people are expected to pay a penalty for not having health insurance when the rule takes full effect in 2016, bringing in about $54 billion to help offset the $1.7 trillion, 10-year cost of the act, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

This, of course, will be the poor paying this "penalty".    That's a $13,500.00 fine per person, by the way.  That should fix everything.

Micrówave wrote: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one. the last time someone thought like that on such a grand scale, we all almost had to learn German.

The Real Wizard wrote: Instead of complaining about what's wrong ... Can someone provide a better solution? Given the current system where the overwhelming majority of health care is provided by the private sector, what else could Obama have done to ensure every American receives health care?

tero! 48531 wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Instead of complaining about what's wrong ... Can someone provide a better solution? Given the current system where the overwhelming majority of health care is provided by the private sector, what else could Obama have done to ensure every American receives health care?

Naturally he should have cut the taxes of the richest 1% of the population, which would in the future have trickled down to create millions of new jobs and make every American wealthy enough to afford the private medical care of their choice. It's worked so well until now!

Panchgani wrote: Obamacare left items 1, 2, and 4 unchanged or worse (per link in previous post) as reasons for the excessive cost of healthcare in the US:1. higher prices for the same health care goods and services than are paid in other countries for the same goods and services;2. significantly higher administrative overhead costs than are incurred in other countries with simpler health-insurance systems;3. more widespread use of high-cost, high-tech equipment and procedures than are used in other countries;4. higher treatment costs triggered by our uniquely American tort laws, which in the context of medicine can lead to “defensive medicine” — that is, the application of tests and procedures mainly as a defense against possible malpractice litigation, rather than as a clinical imperative.My comments ...1.  The healthcare industry wrote the Obamacare to their advantage.  Americans still can not buy prescription drugs from Canada.  Americans still can not buy insurance over state lines (still overly regulated to discourage competition).2.  Obamacare will add even more administrative costs.3.  USA!  USA!4.  No tort reform was enacted to protect doctors.  Slimeball lawyers like John Edwards can still earn millions (at the expense of the vast majority of Americans) from the "lawsuit lottery" American justice system (more than enough to finance a presidential campaign).Obamacare needs to be repealed and eventually replaced (without further following in the footsteps of Greece) with cost-effective legislation that covers all Americans AND significantly reduces the massive non-value added costs of the present healthcare system.

TQ wrote:  The whole of the U.S. is heading towards ruin right now, and the reason is simple: since 2001, there has been no competent government. Since 2008, there has hardly been any government, because the current GOP would rather see the U.S. completely destroyed than reach any sort of compromise with the Democrats that might help the country.

Micrówave wrote:

TQ wrote:  The whole of the U.S. is heading towards ruin right now, and the reason is simple: since 2001, there has been no competent government. Since 2008, there has hardly been any government, because the current GOP would rather see the U.S. completely destroyed than reach any sort of compromise with the Democrats that might help the country.

So if we shoot all the Republicans.then everything will be Hunky Dory?  (Unemployment rate WOULD decrease significantly.  He may be right.)

tcc wrote: I got a feel of why the health care system is so costly in the US from an article in one of the Harvard Business Review magazines. A patient sees a doctor. Assuming he is employed, the patient's company pays the insurance company for the medical expenses. The doctor is paid by the hospital or clinic. The hospital maintains a system (staff and computer) to keep track of what they pay the doctor and the amount to be claimed from the insurance company. The insurance company maintains a system (staff and computer) to keep track of how much to pay the hospital/clinic and to collect from the patient's company. The result: The patient does not feel the cost of seeing a doctor because he does not pay the doctor directly. The doctor does not feel the guilt of any excessive charging because the patient is not the one paying the bill. Between the hospital and the insurance company are the huge cost of administering the collection and payment of medical cost.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote:

Panchgani wrote: Obamacare left items 1, 2, and 4 unchanged or worse (per link in previous post) as reasons for the excessive cost of healthcare in the US:1. higher prices for the same health care goods and services than are paid in other countries for the same goods and services;2. significantly higher administrative overhead costs than are incurred in other countries with simpler health-insurance systems;3. more widespread use of high-cost, high-tech equipment and procedures than are used in other countries;4. higher treatment costs triggered by our uniquely American tort laws, which in the context of medicine can lead to “defensive medicine” — that is, the application of tests and procedures mainly as a defense against possible malpractice litigation, rather than as a clinical imperative.My comments ...1.  The healthcare industry wrote the Obamacare to their advantage.  Americans still can not buy prescription drugs from Canada.  Americans still can not buy insurance over state lines (still overly regulated to discourage competition).2.  Obamacare will add even more administrative costs.3.  USA!  USA!4.  No tort reform was enacted to protect doctors.  Slimeball lawyers like John Edwards can still earn millions (at the expense of the vast majority of Americans) from the "lawsuit lottery" American justice system (more than enough to finance a presidential campaign).Obamacare needs to be repealed and eventually replaced (without further following in the footsteps of Greece) with cost-effective legislation that covers all Americans AND significantly reduces the massive non-value added costs of the present healthcare system.

I'm not claiming Obamacare is a perfect solution (how could it be, considering that it was essentially governor Mitt Romney who came up with it?), I'm saying it's a step in the right direction, just like Johnson's Medicare and Medicaid were steps in the right direction. The thing is, Senate- and House Republicans will not allow anything that *really* works to pass. What you should tell me is how it is possible that *every single* European country has a far better healthcare system than the U.S. Even Greece, on the edge of default, can run laps around the U.S. system of healthcare. Hell, I know for a fact that certain rich Americans go to Cuba (of all places) for certain treatments.

Panchgani wrote: Actually, people who do not have health insurance get charged much more.  Perhaps it is because people have less bargaining power than insurance companies, and/or because hospitals (for example) charge more to make up for those who can't pay.I think that you are right that people are less likely to care about the overall cost if the insurance company is paying for most or all of the cost.

beautifulsoup wrote: All I want is to not to be "denied coverage" for "previous conditions." Are you ready to hear why I've been denied coverage? Get this: tinnitus (as a result of having been on indocin for TWO DAYS), and I had physical therapy on my knee, which RESOLVED THE ISSUEs I was having with my knee. Sheesh. Meanwhile, I pay nearly 25% of my monthly income for my unemployed husband's insurance premiums. This is the guy who hasn't been to a doctor in over 15 years.

GratefulFan wrote:

beautifulsoup wrote: All I want is to not to be "denied coverage" for "previous conditions." Are you ready to hear why I've been denied coverage? Get this: tinnitus (as a result of having been on indocin for TWO DAYS), and I had physical therapy on my knee, which RESOLVED THE ISSUEs I was having with my knee. Sheesh. Meanwhile, I pay nearly 25% of my monthly income for my unemployed husband's insurance premiums. This is the guy who hasn't been to a doctor in over 15 years.

My cousin got denied for hay fever. The whole thing is so deeply, incomprehensibly immoral that it's almost impossible to believe.