| radiogugu 26.06.2012 18:46 |
I heard the saturday night show is heavily overdubbed. Is Friday night overdubbed? Freddies voice sounds much better than saturday and I can't stand overdubs! If friday is overddubed. can you please point of specific parts? Thanks fellow queen fans! |
| Gregsynth 26.06.2012 19:27 |
The Saturday show has so many overdubs, that I lost count! The first Wembley show is mostly "legit." They fixed some guitar goofs on Who Wants To Live Forever, and they got rid of the feedback on "Is This The World We Created." There's probably more, but those two stick out! Freddie truly does sound better on the Friday show (I don't believe they overdubbed his vocals for the Friday show)! |
| Vocal harmony 26.06.2012 20:06 |
Very few, if any, official live recordings from the 70's and 80's were not overdubbed. Unleashed in the East by Judas Priest was only half Jokingly known as Unleashed in the studio, some reports claimed the only live recording on the album being the Bass drum. Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous, although denied at the time, was over dubbed on several tracks as was Live Killers which also had songs "stitched together" from more than one performance. Both Milton Keynes and Wembley contain very different sounding performances from the original releases. In some places the vocal on Milton Keynes has been treated compared to the 80's TV broadcast. Wembley 86 has been "altered" in places too. Of course Frank Zappa being Frank Zappa, on the album Joe Garage, dubbed live guitar solos into the studio recording! If your looking and hoping to find officially released pure live recordings they are few and far between. |
| The Real Wizard 26.06.2012 20:37 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Of course Frank Zappa being Frank Zappa, on the album Joe Garage, dubbed live guitar solos into the studio recording!^ Definition of genius. |
| conejo29 26.06.2012 23:23 |
link in this link are the raw concert of wembley 86 whitout overdubs. |
| john bodega 27.06.2012 00:58 |
link Audience recording. Not only is it not overdubbed, but it gives you an idea of what the live mixing practices were, with regards to echoes and reverbs being switched in on front of house sound. |
| tomchristie22 27.06.2012 01:24 |
The overdubs are a plus in some cases - the MK version of Fat Bottomed Girls is much better off without Freddie's squealing :P |
| pittrek 27.06.2012 01:32 |
tomchristie22 wrote: The overdubs are a plus in some cases - the MK version of Fat Bottomed Girls is much better off without Freddie's squealing :PI can't agree. Overdubs are always a cheat. When I want a concert recording, I want to hear exactly what the audience could here. That's the meaning of live recordings - to give the buyer the feeling that he's on a (Queen) show. And I prefer the original FBG on MK |
| Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 27.06.2012 03:37 |
^^^^^^^^ What he said ;-) Yes and when I know where and when a overdub is patched into the recording. Each and everytime I listnen to it I know and think " oh yeah that's a overbud" And I am going to listnen very carefully if I can hear any patching done on the music.... The FBG from MK : you can hear a big difference it sound unnatural ... and is indeed annoying... |
| Supersonic_Man89 27.06.2012 03:56 |
I disagree, I'd prefer to hear a live recording with a few overdubs if it means a better product. Freddie may have uncharacteristically slipped up on one note of a show, and it's a bit unfair to crystalise that for eternity by releasing it as it is. Of course I don't mean overdubs to the extent where you can't tell what's live and what's not anymore, but for mistakes which i think will stand out, then why not? Queen were perfectionists, I'm sure they'd agree. |
| Vocal harmony 27.06.2012 04:16 |
Supersonic_Man89 wrote: Freddie may have uncharacteristically slipped up on one note of a showI think, good as he was Freddie's voice was not perfect. There were many shows where his voice was strained or he went for lower notes for self preservation. Yes he had amazing range and control as proved on many albums. But in the studio you can stop and start and take breaks. On stage you can't, and that showed during a number of Queen gigs. I think you'll find that Paul Rodgers, when working with Queen was a more consistent singer than Freddie. |
| Holly2003 27.06.2012 05:41 |
Vocal harmony wrote:Supersonic_Man89 wrote: Freddie may have uncharacteristically slipped up on one note of a showI think, good as he was Freddie's voice was not perfect. There were many shows where his voice was strained or he went for lower notes for self preservation. Yes he had amazing range and control as proved on many albums. But in the studio you can stop and start and take breaks. On stage you can't, and that showed during a number of Queen gigs. I think you'll find that Paul Rodgers, when working with Queen was a more consistent singer than Freddie. Yes, Rodgers could definitely reproduce his nasal whine far more consistantly than Fred, especially the lyrics "lurrve yewww" . |
| Flash Jazz 27.06.2012 05:56 |
Paul Rodgers doesn't suffer from vocal nodules afaik. |
| Canadian May Fan 27.06.2012 08:17 |
Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but how can you even tell if a live show's been overdubbed? |
| Vocal harmony 27.06.2012 08:29 |
Holly2003 wrote: Yes, Rodgers could definitely reproduce his nasal whine far more consistantly than Fred, especially the lyrics "lurrve yewww" .At least he did it night after night, in tune without breaking up or losing pitch. Something Freddie couldn't do as often. |
| Dane 27.06.2012 08:42 |
The live slip-ups are part of the performance and inherent to the time-document. Can you imagine Nirvana 'fixing' the guitar solo to Man Who Sold The World??!?! |
| Graeme Arnott 27.06.2012 10:21 |
Not to put Paul down - as I am a big fan - but Paul had plenty of breaks during the concert. |
| mooghead 27.06.2012 11:58 |
All officially released Queen gigs have been overdubbed to buggery (thats an expression from the North of England!) All you are left with is poor quality mono fan recordings. Bearing in mind Queen's live reputation its a pretty sad state of affairs. |
| people on streets 27.06.2012 12:03 |
The Real Wizard wrote:He also dubbed his live recordings with studio work. Quite ugly as a matter of fact.Vocal harmony wrote: Of course Frank Zappa being Frank Zappa, on the album Joe Garage, dubbed live guitar solos into the studio recording!^ Definition of genius. |
| john bodega 27.06.2012 12:22 |
"Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but how can you even tell if a live show's been overdubbed?" If you've listened to it enough times, the edits start to pop out at you. No matter how much effort they put into the overdubs, the sound will change slightly. Another one I only noticed when I was syncing the live audio to Wembley was that, once I watched the official DVD later on - you can hear bits of the actual performance (very faintly) underneath the overdub. It would be because onstage bleed from the monitors into other mics (the drum mics, guitar mics, etc). So even if it's very hard to discern, for brief moments you do hear two Freddies at times. |
| Holly2003 27.06.2012 12:24 |
Vocal harmony wrote:Holly2003 wrote: Yes, Rodgers could definitely reproduce his nasal whine far more consistantly than Fred, especially the lyrics "lurrve yewww" .At least he did it night after night, in tune without breaking up or losing pitch. Something Freddie couldn't do as often. A nasal whine repeated night after night is still a nasal whine. Radio Ga Ga, Someone still lurves huuuw... |
| Band Forever 27.06.2012 13:26 |
Rodgers was never in tune or the right key ffs. He didn't have Fred's range for a start. A steady Eddie with his middle of the road vocals. |
| brENsKi 27.06.2012 13:45 |
i agree with most of the points made so far that are pro authentic recordings. as some one who attended MK and wembley saturday i find the official recordings awful. if i buy a live recording of a gig i attend, i would at least like it to sound exactly as it was...that way it's a perfectly less-than-perfect perfect memento of the event as regards the 70s gigs - yes, and our very own Queen were one of the very worst offenders - Live Killers had over 50 sources for 23 tracks...scandalous as regards Lizzy's L&D - one story I heard was that by the end of the studio re-recording of the live parts the only bits not overdubbed or corrected were the crowd noises there's a "philly uncut" re-release of the L&D album which is supposed to be the set redone with all of the overdubs and shit taken out...i'm not convinced...many of the vocals sound identical |
| Vocal harmony 27.06.2012 14:20 |
people on streets wrote: He also dubbed his live recordings with studio work. Quite ugly as a matter of fact.Yes he did, but he was quite open about it in interviews. It was done from an artistic point of view rather than to cover up mistakes. He made High quality recordings of most of his gigs, his band were always at the top of their game, if he had wanted to release a live song from a particular tour he could have easily found well played versions without the need for extra studio work. He viewed the studio as a tool for the construction of music in the same way as he viewed the guitar as a tool to produce sound. If your going to criticize you need to understand what your leveling the criticism at. |
| the dude 1366 27.06.2012 19:55 |
Even if there is a few overdubs it is in the interest of not losing a reputation. The most fake and overdubbed live albums are by KISS. They even stole some crowd cheering from a Rolling Stones live album. If yo usee Kiss, they were so amateur in the 70's that they often moved their mouths away from the mic to watch their own guitar playing. Pathetic. |
| AlexRocks 27.06.2012 21:30 |
Most if not all commercial live releases are not entirely live and have over dubs. Sorry if that some how ruins something for you but it is probably good in some ways. This is according to Gene Simmons of KISS. |
| The Real Wizard 28.06.2012 00:08 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Yes he did, but he was quite open about it in interviews. It was done from an artistic point of view rather than to cover up mistakes. He made High quality recordings of most of his gigs, his band were always at the top of their game, if he had wanted to release a live song from a particular tour he could have easily found well played versions without the need for extra studio work. He viewed the studio as a tool for the construction of music in the same way as he viewed the guitar as a tool to produce sound. If your going to criticize you need to understand what your leveling the criticism at.Amen. link |
| GratefulFan 28.06.2012 00:17 |
the dude 1366 wrote:If yo usee Kiss, they were so amateur in the 70's that they often moved their mouths away from the mic to watch their own guitar playing. Pathetic.And that was just the drummer! |
| matt z 28.06.2012 06:04 |
Great topic manly for what it exposes. I always thought that even though Freddie took a lower register on the high part of WWTLF... That he sounded pretty "cleaned" up...as opposed tho his throaty+chesty voice of the show.... Anyways, albums like KISS III seemed kinda polished. I had never been a fan until I heard that album. And looking back, their "hits" sound so wank and amateurish that its embarrassing. In either event, production-wise...they were one of the best bands I had seen growing up (first live band I had seen) But that all got put away once I'd seen Nevermore and In Flames... Sam Moore, Little Richard and Ronnie James Dio with Sabbath (as well as Jimmy Cliff this last weekend) Performance is an art... The guys proceeding them were far greater in intimacy and carrying the song than Kiss was at doing a schtick. I'm sure Kiss had more poonany after the show, but that's cause its a name brand. Anyways, I digress. It DOES seem like most bands patch up their "live" shows.. That said... Alice Cooper's LOVE IT TO DEATH, the Beatles REVOLVER and QUEEN'S "LIVE KILLERS" were so completely instrumental toward my playing music; they might as well be classified as my first breath. True, it cheapens the notion of "live" but ....yeah, they wanna look good. If a feedback squeal comes through...odds are someone will object...and that gets the ball rolling... One thing leads to another and soon you find it all altered beyond reality. |
| cmsdrums 28.06.2012 06:50 |
Live Killers only has a few overdubs, and is mostly as it was, but is cut from numerous performances in search of the perfect performance. Check out the UK rock band Thunder - one of the only acts I know of that has released a lot of live albums and DVDs without a single overdub. It's all live, and bloody tight. |
| Holly2003 28.06.2012 08:47 |
cmsdrums wrote: Live Killers only has a few overdubs, and is mostly as it was, but is cut from numerous performances in search of the perfect performance. Check out the UK rock band Thunder - one of the only acts I know of that has released a lot of live albums and DVDs without a single overdub. It's all live, and bloody tight. Coincidentally, I just bought 2 of their CDs -- Laughing on Judgement Day and The Thrill of It All. I sw them on Sky Arts at (I think) last year's Download festival and they were excellent. I would guess AC/DC's first live album "If You Want Blood You've Got It " also isn't overdubbed. |
| cmsdrums 28.06.2012 09:19 |
Good stuff Holly2003! Their debut, Backstreet Symphony is a must, and a three disc 'best of' came out a year or so ago which has the highlights of all their studio output plus some live stuff, and can be picked up really cheap now. |
| The Real Wizard 28.06.2012 14:47 |
Dream Theater have released six live albums, only one of which has overdubs in it - only a single song. But the overwhelming majority of live albums in rock have been overdubbed. The Song Remains The Same, Kiss Alive, so many others ... |
| Mr Mercury 28.06.2012 15:51 |
pittrek wrote:I agree that it is cheating. Brian himself once said that he wanted to hear a live show "warts and all"....tomchristie22 wrote: The overdubs are a plus in some cases - the MK version of Fat Bottomed Girls is much better off without Freddie's squealing :PI can't agree. Overdubs are always a cheat. When I want a concert recording, I want to hear exactly what the audience could here. That's the meaning of live recordings - to give the buyer the feeling that he's on a (Queen) show. And I prefer the original FBG on MK |
| rhyeking 28.06.2012 16:30 |
I understand the "warts and all" position, to have uncut, unaltered live performances, as a record of what happened on the night. On the other hand, I understand the desire not hear bad notes and dodgy bits every time I put on the live album. A few add character, maybe, but too many just distract. When you're there at the concert, it's easy to overlook the blown moments in the midst of the occasion. Hearing the bad notes over and over can be distracting, why would I want to buy that, even if it's an accurate record of the event? I guess I land in the middle. Some fixes are fine, "cheating" or otherwise, but too many risk the release sounding artificial. Just my opinion. |
| The Real Wizard 28.06.2012 17:46 |
Fair play. Queen fudged the ending of Liar ONCE - and it was the Hammersmith Odeon 75 show. It's fair that they fixed that error for the recent BBC broadcast. It's not like Queen blew it every time. Such miscues were ever so rare. But to overdub a couple guitar notes or vocal lines - that's where it crosses the line for me. Never mind the auto-tune on the White Queen bonus track released last year. |
| Marcos Napier 28.06.2012 21:32 |
Sometimes bands plan to record a certain special event/concert, and for some reason(s) the performance ends up not being quite that special, and some fixes are made. Other bands prefer not to take any risk as well when they don't have the same talent live as they "have" in studio. The recent live album by Roger Hodgson (Classics Live) suffers of some other annoying problem, that also happens a lot in live albums: the (re)mix. In some songs the audience singalong was entirely cut, and the audience was very present in the original audio... not sure if it had overdubs but that odd mixing was as annoying as overdubs. It's ok to fix instrument levels and all that in the final mix (that's what mixing is for), but to almost remove an important part of the performance (the audience!), that's no good. |
| tomchristie22 28.06.2012 23:26 |
I didn't even know they used auto-tune on the bonus track version of Hammersmith's White Queen. Yikes, 'how my heart did ache' sounded fine in the first place, can't see how they could justify messing it up like that. |
| matt z 29.06.2012 00:45 |
Sorry for the lenghty ramble posts..."Cough medicine" But isn't this the primary reason why when "big bands" recorded a show for release, filming would be done on two back to back nights to aid in getting the best of the two performances; same sets, costume changes and all? I used to love tracking down "LIVE" albums, but as far as that goes, to really get a live one, ya gotta hope you've found a great bootlegger. Even my ALCATRAZZ 83 album sounds suspect...I'm just not sure whether its because there is canned applause and the show is straight from a mixer..or if its been retooled excessively. I'm thankful for the bootlegging community that keeps a lot of this alive. Especially the ones that aren't trying to make a cheap buck. |
| tomchristie22 06.07.2012 07:33 |
the dude 1366 wrote: If yo usee Kiss, they were so amateur in the 70's that they often moved their mouths away from the mic to watch their own guitar playing. Pathetic.George Harrison did that all the time |
| 4ctmam 23.07.2012 15:23 |
I for one don't mind some cosmetic overdubbs. Mistakes are bound to happen in live performances but during an actual concert they're just a breif snippet of time and they're gone. I wouldn't like to listen to mistakes from records over and over again though. Anyway, another approsach is just to use best performances from different show of a tour, or (if it's supposed to be a live album from a particular show) use tiny bits from other live performances to fix mistakes (which with today's technology is easier than ever). I'm rambling. Bottomline, it's all a matter of opinion but I really don't mind overdubs. |
| NOTWMEDDLE 08.08.2012 16:20 |
Pink Floyd's PULSE came from 20 shows. Some solos came in from other shows as David Gilmour was at home with wife Polly Samson having their first child together Joseph. David would hear what was played then told James Guthrie to take best solos and put them over any badly played solos. Gilmour's Live in Gdansk was what was recorded on the spot except for the last verse of "Time" which came from another show as the band goofed on the last verse. Deep Purple's Made in Japan wasn't overdubbed. Genesis' live albums varied (Live Over Europe had "I Know What I Like" shortened with the tambourine jig mixed out whereas it was left intact on Seconds Out and The Way We Walk). Seconds Out had some fixes (not many). Three Sides Live used performances from three different shows. Rush admitted to lifting an altered vocal from another performance of "Presto" for Time Machine Live. All The World's a Stage was raw and dry. Exit Stage and Show of Hands were overdubbed. Different Stages and Rush in Rio were warts and all (just mixed). Snakes and Arrows Live was from two shows. Frampton Comes Alive was all live sans the first verse to "Something's Happening", the rhythm guitar on "Show Me the Way" (the talkbox came out but the rhythm electric was lost) and the piano on "Wanna Go to the Sun". |
| pittrek 14.10.2012 07:00 |
What about getting back to the topic ? Did anybody compile a list of the overdubs on the Wembley 86 releases ? |
| Day dop 15.10.2012 10:32 |
I've not checked out my VHS version of We Will Rock You since I Was a teen.... But as I recall, Play the game sounded different to the other tracks (It might've been Save me - but I'm sure it was Play the Game) ... Does that ring any bells with anyone? |
| cmsdrums 17.10.2012 09:45 |
From memory you're right in that the WWRY video has different cuts on Play The Game and/or Save Me (definitely a drum fill on Play The Game under the guitar solo), but I think that's cos the original VHS was a compilation of both nights, whereas the Montreal DVD release tries to keep to one night's performance for each song where possible. Not that that has anything to do with Wembley 86 overdubs, which is the topic, but I don't really have anything comprehensive to list there as I don't have a bootleg (as it was' recording' to compare to the 'touched up' official releases. |
| john bodega 18.10.2012 10:58 |
link |
| Missreclusive 18.10.2012 19:50 |
Love love love it raw, live and REAL How could anyone not!? Thanks for posting Z. Who did the audience recording? I so wish I could have been there, this is as close as you can get to being there. |
| liam 20.10.2012 04:15 |
Just watched a few minutes of the posted youtube clip. They have over dubbed freddies voice for a fair amount of One Vision - never realised. Quite a few guitar stuff ups to and thats only the first song! |
| sammyfrankfreddie96 03.02.2019 21:12 |
(Forgive me for the bump!) This was the album that got me hooked on 'Queen' (live albums have always been of more interest to me), and I never realized the overdubs were there until I read these forums, haha! Doesn't help that the sound quality on Wembley is so garbled and shitty that its harder to tell, but I notice it so much more now. I never even thought about vocal overdubs but, granted, the music I had been listening to prior (Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr.), in their concerts they obviously never did overdubs so thats why it was such a foreign concept to me at the time. I find it really interesting to learn that its "the rule, not the exception" for rock bands to do overdubs for live albums in the studio, thats really neat! Would you guys say this concert is the Queen concert with the most vocal overdubs, with the exception of maybe the 'Live Killers' album? I remember being so confused listening to the concert the first time hearing him hit those D5s in 'One Vision' and thinking "Wow, thats fucking incredible he could do that live, be he keeps struggling at random points in the show! Must've blown his voice in the first song". It makes much more sense now. Also its become so much more obvious the difference in vocal quality on his voice between the live track and the vocal overdubs. He goes from a deeper voice one second to his higher, studio wail the next. I still need to watch the full July 11 show but he sounds much better there from everything I've heard. But Budapest and Mannheim are awesome without any dubs. |
| dysan 04.02.2019 08:17 |
I think that's why I prefer Live Magic to Wembley - the overdubs are better. |
| bucsateflon 04.02.2019 08:50 |
The Friday performance is inferior to the Saturday one, regardless how many "A4s" Freddie would belt. |
| JomaDuckSoup 04.02.2019 14:47 |
Live Aid is not overdubbed. |