| Heavenite 26.05.2012 08:59 |
I have been reading the topic on whether Freddie made Queen or Queen made Freddie and I noticed some people were speculating on what might have happened to the four individuals without Queen. That reminded me that according to my book on the History of Glam Rock, Brian was asked by the Mael brothers if he would like to join their band Sparks. This apparently occurred after Queen 2, so at that point there was no Sheer Heart Attack or Killer Queen in existence and the success that Queen had achieved was relatively limited. So assuming that Brian had accepted this offer, Freddie, Roger and John would still have been together in Queen but they would have then been short a guitarist and would not have achieved their major breakthrus at that point. Any thoughts on what might have happened next? Would Queen have fallen apart? Alternately what guitarist do you think they might have got to replace Brian with? And for those that are familiar with the now actual (instead of prospective) poachers, how do you think the new look Sparks would have done with Brian on board ? |
| Jazz 78 26.05.2012 09:46 |
Brian was an integral part of the band even at this point in their career. Freddie liked what Brian and Roger were doing with Smile which is why he wanted to join them. John probably could have taken or left it behind at this stage. So in my opinon, had Brian said "yes" to the Sparks offer, I think the rest of Queen would have folded. |
| brENsKi 26.05.2012 11:22 |
no chance. freddie had a vision - since he was about 12, and roger did not want to go back to dentistry...so the rock n roll life was possible without ANY one band member... also, remember, around 74/75 there were lots of available guitarists around, all whod' had success elsewhere |
| Jean_Luc2000 26.05.2012 16:30 |
If you've got someone like Freddie as your lead singer there's no way Brian would have left Queen at that point. You'd have to be deaf and blind not to realise just how gifted Freddie was and how rare people of his talent come about. If Brian had of left Queen there's the possibility that maybe Queen would go on to even greater things, ever considered that outcome? It's all speculation but what's not speculation is that Queen was great then the sum of parts which was especially true for the relationship between Brian and Freddie in as much as Brian got the best out of Fred and Fred got the best Brian. If they had never met I don't think either of them would have reached there heights in terms of ability. |
| dysan 27.05.2012 01:48 |
Sparks were cunts to their bands, so he would've lasted about a year in the line up - Queen would've carried on for Night At The Opera! BTW I don't think there was ever a point where he would've said yes to the offer although I'd urge Queen fans to get the classic Sparks album Kimono My House for some Queen II esque treats. |
| Ron 27.05.2012 08:06 |
Spark's Indiscreet is their best dysan ;) And I know what I'm talking about since I have all their albums :D |
| dysan 27.05.2012 08:58 |
So do I! I agree that Indiscreet is great, but KMH shares a certain energy with Queen II. Perhaps Indiscreet is more akin to the twee tunes on ADATR and ANATO? Also - Whomp That sucker was made by Mack around the same time as The Game. Interesting to compare the sonic tricks used on both. |
| Daniel Nester 27.05.2012 12:48 |
Brian talked a bit about this in Mojo last year, and he was gracious about it all. |
| david (galashiels) 27.05.2012 17:06 |
do you think,sparks,were heavy enough for brian. must confess apart from singles i dont know much sparks songs. was,kimono my house? a heavy ish album. and is it worth a listen. |
| david (galashiels) 27.05.2012 17:13 |
i have decided to download it from isohunt. if its any good will let you know. |
| Heavenite 01.06.2012 21:46 |
Thanks for some cool responses to this topic. I agree that Brian would have been disposed of by Sparks in the short to medium term. They went back to the US after a few albums so that would have terminated any ongoing relationship with Brian I would think. Regarding the issue of whether Queen would have folded, my guess would be that whether they would have done so would have depended on the character and personality of the guitarist or guitarists Queen got to replace Brian. I'm sure Freddie would have only bothered with damn good guitarists. But whether the guitarist have been able to work with Freddie the way Brian did? I'm not so sure. Having said that I do agree that Freddie was almost certainly destined for greatness in some form or other. |
| dysan 02.06.2012 02:35 |
Although if we're doing parallel careers, it's possible Sparks would've stayed in the UK if Brian had joined and their chart run hadn't dried up. Tanatalisingly, Mick Ronson nearly joined them when they moved back for the Big Beat album in '76. Although there is a school of thought that if the Kimono line up wasn't fired as soon as the record was out, they would've become a band to equal Queen in terms of stadium rock. One of the great rock injustices that Sparks dropped their bundle when they hit it big. I imagine if Queen were guitarless in '74, someone from Mott the Hoople may have joined (maybe Ronson himself?) as they got through personnel pretty quickly. Let me know how you get on with Kimono. |
| Pim Derks 02.06.2012 02:57 |
Going to see Sparks in two weeks. Can't wait. Awesome band. |
| dysan 02.06.2012 03:03 |
It's just the two of them isn't it? Should be good! Their last few tours have been amazing with a full live band again. |
| Pim Derks 02.06.2012 12:45 |
Yeah just Ron & Russell. I saw them twice in 2009, with the full band, and those gigs are definitely in my 'best gigs visited' list :D |
| dysan 03.06.2012 01:41 |
I started seeing them just before Lil Beethoven (2001 I think?) and even since then they have developed live. It was all backing tapes and horrid guitar back then. In '04 they had a full 5 piece electric band to play Kimono My House in it's entirity for Morrissey's Meltdown fest. That was AMAZING! And of course the 2008 gigs in Islington were amazing. All 21 albums over the course of 21 gigs! |
| dysan 03.06.2012 01:41 |
I started seeing them just before Lil Beethoven (2001 I think?) and even since then they have developed live. It was all backing tapes and horrid guitar back then. In '04 they had a full 5 piece electric band to play Kimono My House in it's entirity for Morrissey's Meltdown fest. That was AMAZING! And of course the 2008 gigs in Islington were amazing. All 21 albums over the course of 21 gigs! |
| Pim Derks 03.06.2012 03:32 |
I got to know them in 2006, just before the release of Hello Young Lovers. Lil' Beethoven indeed is excellent, shame they haven't revisited it live. Would love to see it. |
| dysan 03.06.2012 04:27 |
It was quite something live. I think I saw it twice before the album was out and was slightly disappointed by the record (as is sometimes the way!) I've got most of these gigs on minidisc - I should dig them out. |
| Pim Derks 03.06.2012 09:13 |
Awesome, would love to hear them :) |
| dysan 04.06.2012 02:52 |
Would've been an ideal job for the long bank hols! Might make a start today. |
| Heavenite 04.06.2012 09:45 |
Hi there Dysan Any chance of two copies mate? I would also be very interested in getting hold of some special live shows like that. |
| Heavenite 04.06.2012 09:46 |
PS Happy to reimburse for CDs etc. I don't use mini discs. |
| Micrówave 04.06.2012 10:26 |
link |
| dysan 04.06.2012 14:23 |
I'll just upload them somewhere if there's enough demand then - in this thread if no one objects? |
| Heavenite 05.06.2012 04:45 |
Certainly not me. Thanks! |
| Heavenite 05.06.2012 04:45 |
Thanks to microwave for that link too. |
| MEDUSA-RULES 10.06.2012 05:34 |
brENsKi wrote: no chance. freddie had a vision - since he was about 12 Any detail on this- do you know of any literal vision? or just general ambition? |
| brENsKi 10.06.2012 16:35 |
are you on crack? |
| Heavenite 10.06.2012 21:42 |
dysan wrote: Although if we're doing parallel careers, it's possible Sparks would've stayed in the UK if Brian had joined and their chart run hadn't dried up. Tanatalisingly, Mick Ronson nearly joined them when they moved back for the Big Beat album in '76. Although there is a school of thought that if the Kimono line up wasn't fired as soon as the record was out, they would've become a band to equal Queen in terms of stadium rock. One of the great rock injustices that Sparks dropped their bundle when they hit it big. I imagine if Queen were guitarless in '74, someone from Mott the Hoople may have joined (maybe Ronson himself?) as they got through personnel pretty quickly. Let me know how you get on with Kimono. Hi there Dysan Some interesting speculation. Would Sparks success have been modifed with Brian on board? I think not all that much because they had their own ideas on what was required and that seems to have been the reason that their own guitarist got sacked after Kimono My House (ie his ideas were different to their's). To me Sparks seem to have been a very melodic band where the music virtually is always used to support the singer (based on my 7 albums worth anyway). The Sparks I have also seem to be focussed on producing something that is fun clever and entertaining. That is also true of Queen to some extent although albums like Queen 2 seem to traverse a broader range of styles and evoke a much broader range of emotions in me when compared with Kimono My House. |
| Heavenite 10.06.2012 21:51 |
MEDUSA-RULES wrote: brENsKi wrote: no chance. freddie had a vision - since he was about 12 Any detail on this- do you know of any literal vision? or just general ambition? Hi Medusa Rules Apparently Freddie used to tell everyone he was going to be a star before he was one. So it seems to have been a complete belief in it that continued to motivate him to become a star. PS Why Medusa? I know a song called that or is it some other reason? |
| MEDUSA-RULES 10.06.2012 22:19 |
Heavenite wrote: MEDUSA-RULES wrote: brENsKi wrote: no chance. freddie had a vision - since he was about 12 Any detail on this- do you know of any literal vision? or just general ambition? Hi Medusa Rules Apparently Freddie used to tell everyone he was going to be a star before he was one. So it seems to have been a complete belief in it that continued to motivate him to become a star. PS Why Medusa? I know a song called that or is it some other reason?Nothin really, i have the same belief in regards to the movie |
| dysan 11.06.2012 13:02 |
@Heavenite - true about the range of emotions. Do you have Indiscreet? A fabulous album (over long perhaps) perhaps showing that Sparks did 'comedy' a bit more than 'melancholy'. Great thread. |
| Heavenite 12.06.2012 06:07 |
Hi again Dysan Thanks! I think its great having threads that discuss different bands like this. Do you get many of those on here? I don't have Indiscreet at this point but your comments on the strength of that album are noted. My interest in Sparks is sort of back to front in the sense that the first album I got was their last, when I got Bergman as a gift for a friend who is a Sparks nut. I got myself a copy as well and found it to be a really gorgeous album. I was sold. Since then I've got into Pulling Rabbits out of a Hat, Sax and Violins, a Japanese copy of "Introducing", Exotic Creatures, Hello Young Lovers and most recently Kimono My House. Am still really only getting into it, but the tunes are becomiong clearer and clearer. Faves at this point are This Town, Talent is an Asset and Equator. I'm now thinking of getting a copy of the Japanese pressing to see if it improves the sound. I do enjoy Sparks and find them interesting and well worth the money. I don't like them the way I like Queen, but its great to enjoy different bands and the last thing I heard they are not making any more of those unfortunately. :-( Am looking forward to those concerts when you get the time. And do you know if the Sparks 1969 "Woofer" demos (ie not the album) are available from anywhere? I have just bought their first album and given it a couple of spins and would like to hear a pre-nascent Sparks too if that stuff is also available somewhere. |
| Heavenite 12.06.2012 07:42 |
david galashiels wrote: do you think,sparks,were heavy enough for brian. must confess apart from singles i dont know much sparks songs. was,kimono my house? a heavy ish album. and is it worth a listen. Hi David Personally I don't think that Brian would have been a good fit with Sparks. The music wasn't heavy enough for his tastes as you suggest and the Sparks I've heard is predominantly about supporting the singer's interpretation of the song rather than having bits of playing going on for its own sake such as Procession and Father to Son. I actually have a friend who is a Sparks fan who would like to hear a solo album from the older brother Ron who plays keyboards. But playing for its own sake doesn't seem to be a priority for him as he has been the one that has been responsible for most of the songwriting over the years. That doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile music of course, it just means its different. Its horses for courses I guess. |
| Heavenite 12.06.2012 07:49 |
Pim Derks wrote: Going to see Sparks in two weeks. Can't wait. Good luck Pim. I think its tomorrow night. Will be interested to hear your feedback on how it all goes. Sparks fans are lucky in that they still have the brothers still intact and functioning. Sadly Queen fans have only half their original band intact. Think I'll need to move to an alternate universe where Freddie is still alive and the band is still together and putting out great music. |
| dysan 12.06.2012 08:38 |
RE Woofer demos - only on bootleg. you should be able to find them no problem with a bit of googling or youtubing. They are excellent! |
| Heavenite 12.06.2012 17:28 |
Thanks Dysan. I've had a bit of a go already, but I'll keep trying. Hopefully someone is selling a good quality CD-R with inserts. I am thinking that CD Universe is probably the best place for me to look. I remember I got a CD-R of Brian May tracks from CD Universe that rounded up bits of his solo stuff that are not on one of his albums. It was really helpful in that respect, although the music quality wasn't the absolute best. I think artists like Sparks should rerelease these sorts of things, as I would much rather pay the artists for a qood quality cleaned up (even remastered) copy of songs like the Woofer demos from the band themselves, rather than poorer quality product from alternative sources. Especially if the product is really significant and worth buying like the Woofer demos would appear to be. They could rename it "Pre-Woofer Woofer"....lol. |
| Pim Derks 12.06.2012 23:02 |
Heavenite wrote: Since then I've got into Pulling Rabbits out of a Hat, Sax and Violins, a Japanese copy of "Introducing", Exotic Creatures, Hello Young Lovers and most recently Kimono My House.Grat Sax, Exotic Creates, Lovers & Kimono are amazing albums. Introducing has it's moments too, but Pulling Rabbits IMO is one of their lesser albums. Check out Number One In Heaven and the first two albums. Some amazing stuff: Tryouts for the Human Race, The Louvre, Sacharrin And The War. Oh and don't forget their masterpiece Lil' Beethoven. The Rhythm Thief may well be one of my favorite pieces of music of all time! |
| Heavenite 13.06.2012 08:01 |
Hi there Pim But what do you think of Bergman? It was my first Sparks album and is still my favourite. And funnily enough I really like Introducing despite its somewhat negative reputation. Its probably my second favourite album, although Kimono is closing in as I get more familiar with it. I found Exotic to be a difficult album to get into, but its now very good (except for that Strange Animal track!!, not sure what happened there). Sax is very professional and seems to be more of a dance album I think while Lovers is pretty crazy (like Exotic Creatures in that respect) with lots ot good bits on it too. I agree that Rabbits is definitely the weakest album of those I own at present. Queen still rules as far as I'm concerned but Sparks are cool too. More for the fans who enjoy Queen's music hall/keyboard side as opposed to their rock stuff I would think. Have fun at the Sparks concert tonight and let us know how it all goes. Reckon we might want a copy of the concert on here too if you can get hold of one.....lol. |
| dysan 13.06.2012 08:55 |
I'll upload the demos here if you like. Not ideal, but will keep you going. |
| dysan 14.06.2012 04:56 |
Here we are: link Enjoy! |
| Heavenite 14.06.2012 06:10 |
Hi Dysan The Woofer Demos! Wow! Thanks!! Will get these tonight using my offpeak download allocation. I'm pretty sure my Sparksian friend has never heard these either, so you will have made two people happy. In fact I think thrilled would be a better word to describe how my friend is going to react. :-)) Couldn't find it on CD Universe either. But I will do up a couple of CD-Rs, as we are dinosaurs that still like the old technology. |
| iLoveQueen11 15.08.2012 13:50 |
Genesis tried to get Roger before Phil Collins joined, what if he had accepted? |
| Heavenite 16.08.2012 06:16 |
Nice one! Needs a topic of its own though as its another interesting question. Me, I'd say things would go on in a similar vein. Although no I'm In Love With My Car would be a complete downer. |