QueenZone discussion #1309929
If "The Miracle" were the final album...
| dowens 14.05.2012 21:51 |
I've always enjoyed "The Miracle" album. You can tell the band was working together and in a creative period of their career. I've read material that said the doctors didn't even think that Freddie would make it past "The Miracle" being released. Recently listening I thought, "wow...what if this were the last album?". You can't help but wonder with the final track being "Was It All Worth It.". I wonder if Freddie was happy to end it like that? I just found that thought interesting...what an amazing contrast to "Innuendo". With "Made in Heaven" it's an amazing emotional journey with the final 3 albums. |
| Jimmy Dean 14.05.2012 22:35 |
Agreed. I'm sure the expectation was that Was It All Worth It would be the last hurrah... And it was a very fitting bookend to an illustrious career. But clearly, they topped themselves with The Show Must Go On. Fucking epic finale. Made In Heaven was definitely a "posthumous" release. The band sold it as such, no one really considered to be Queen's final album. At least I don't. I see it as unfinished business put to rest. The song Made In Heaven as a Queen track, in my opinion, was the greatest result of them putting that album together. I don't know if Freddie permitted the use of the track... but I definitely wish he would have re-recorded it with them for Miracle or Innuendo. Imagine him arranging it for as a Queen track... it would have been *that* much better. Freddie was definitely the most talented arranger, in terms of song composition --> BohRhap, Somebody To Love and Fairy Feller are prime examples... he painted the final picture before he began writing the melody... |
| MadTheSwine73 14.05.2012 23:58 |
Nothing more to add to that. Well said. |
| Stelios 15.05.2012 00:06 |
There are stories saying he had been told he wouldn't be able to even finish The Miracle album. Perhaps that is an anexagaration , but there is a possibility he wrote Was It All Worth It, as a retrospective testament and his way out song .But then again it wans't even a single.That dosen't make sence.I believe in his mind he knew he had more time than that to deliver a more fitting way out. On the other hand The Show must go on and These are the days of our lives, the two most fitting candidates as good byes, were written by Brian and Roger.Even Mother Love that has a farewell quality is by Brian again. I dont know. Freddie may wanted to go without thinking to write something more sentimental than Was it all worth it.It's a valid assumption having in mind his "i dont want pitty" attitude. |
| Jimmy Dean 15.05.2012 00:16 |
I'm just going to go ahead and say, no one, in his right mind, wants to purposely write a "goodbye song".. No one "wants" to really go. At least not someone in his 40s and in his right mind - ie. Freddie. The Miracle and A Winter's Tale. Freddie wanted to live and keep on living. He never wanted it to end, and that's what he tried to do in his final years: Imagine his life without an end while he still can. |
| Stelios 15.05.2012 01:57 |
Jimmy Dean wrote: I'm just going to go ahead and say, no one, in his right mind, wants to purposely write a "goodbye song".. No one "wants" to really go. At least not someone in his 40s and in his right mind - ie. Freddie. The Miracle and A Winter's Tale. Freddie wanted to live and keep on living. He never wanted it to end, and that's what he tried to do in his final years: Imagine his life without an end while he still can.Not per-ce a "goodbye song" but having in mind what may come in the future your artistic approach inevitably change.The show must go on for example dosen't say goodbye but it penetrates into heavier concepts of life, meaning and has implications to death. Also the famous "i still love you" shot from the video TATDOOL may not have been a 100% statement of "now i am saying good-bye to you", but its hard to believe that it didnt carried the weight of that possibility. |
| Rubbersuit 15.05.2012 14:42 |
Jimmy Dean wrote: I'm just going to go ahead and say, no one, in his right mind, wants to purposely write a "goodbye song"..Warren Zevon wrote "Keep Me In Your Heart" as his goodbye song after being diagnosed with the cancer that killed him. Try to listen to it without choking up... it's hard. Writing a goodbye song isn't about being of "wrong mind", it's about acceptance and probably a healthy thing for a songwriter to do when faced with pending mortality. |
| brENsKi 15.05.2012 15:51 |
i disagree. miracle was a pretty mediocre way to have signed off... from the orignal vinyl album 4 out of 10 tracks were very ordinary....part, kashoggi's rain. baby does me me? i'm glad they managed to eke out innuendo |
| AlexRocks 15.05.2012 19:28 |
I consider "The Miracle", "Innuendo", and "Made In Heaven" to be trilogys. |
| waunakonor 15.05.2012 20:33 |
AlexRocks wrote: I consider "The Miracle", "Innuendo", and "Made In Heaven" to be trilogys.Uhh...could you please explain? I don't really see how they're similar at all. I personally think that after Freddie was diagnosed with HIV, their creativity went up some. The Works and AKoM are fun, but generally not very creative. The Miracle and Innuendo still aren't at early to mid '70's levels of creativity, but their getting more unique stuff out there because Freddie's about to die. I think The Miracle is a better record than some give it credit for; that's just my opinion though. Innuendo has some elements of an older Queen record with operatic vocals in Innuendo and All God's People. Made In Heaven is kind of different, but also quite a nice album. |
| dowens 15.05.2012 21:05 |
I agree. The Miracle is a great album. And I also agree in a way with AlexRocks in that the final 3 albums are superior to anything else of the 80's. I wish we could know more about 1987-1995 for the band and the creation of those albums. |
| AlexRocks 16.05.2012 09:48 |
Because they are all about the last days of Freddie Mercury. And to be more specific as each one happened they felt they were doing their last one. They were a change in tone in terms of subject matter and attitude. Less reclessness and more reflectiveness and far more uplifting in some ways. Dare I say Fred and the gang got far more conservative. |
| mooghead 16.05.2012 12:18 |
There is no way a song called 'Was It All Worth It' would have been the last song on The Miracle if there wasn't the possibility that it could have been the last album. |
| matt z 16.05.2012 14:31 |
TMLWKY was probably written in that vein. Although it was composed by BM, it, like "TSMGO" were written with a mind set that they would reflect the finality of it all. It supposedly wasn't included for licensing/song writing issues. I love the Miracle. Its odd, and I love Rain Must Fall.. |
| Gaabiizz 16.05.2012 16:03 |
The Miracle It's a great album , but it would not be the same if it were the last Queen album |
| brENsKi 16.05.2012 17:09 |
for the love of christ - [apols matt z] but this has been clarified before several times....Brian was the song writer for TMLWKY, but the lyrics were NOT written by him as regards the album itself: too much of an "empty, souless 80s sound", too much filler....party, kashoggi, rain must fall, baby does me....it's a middle-ish queen album |
| cmsdrums 16.05.2012 17:34 |
Party is a great song! I didn't like it at first, but once I'd realised how much was going on musically 'behind the scenes', and took on board the seamless changes from pop to dance to rock, and the tongue in cheek ever-so-Queen lyrics, I reappraised my initial view. |
| GratefulFan 16.05.2012 22:19 |
brENsKi wrote: for the love of christ - [apols matt z] but this has been clarified before several times....Brian was the song writer for TMLWKY, but the lyrics were NOT written by himBrian certainly embraces it as autobiographical, and lets others reference it as such without correction. I recall reading a quote from him that was something along the lines of among all the songs he'd written never had he told as much of his own truth as he did in that one. Separately I remember him saying that he wondered if he should write a sequel to it because there was no resolution in the song, but he decided he didn't have to because everybody knew what happened in his life subsequently. Overall, everything I've ever read suggests he had at least a hand in those lyrics. If he didn't, he's certainly disconcertingly comfortable with letting people think he did. |
| Jimmy Dean 16.05.2012 22:24 |
I think someone's trying to make a point here... I wonder what that could be? lol But yes, I definitely remember him saying - I think in Days Of Our Lives, actually - that it was specifically about the breakup with his wife and affair with Anita Dobson... "torn between the lover and the love you leave behind" cannot get any more literal that that... well he could have been more specific by saying "torn between Anita and the wife I've left behind"... but a lawsuit would surely be pending. |
| matt z 17.05.2012 03:15 |
Before you got your panties in a bunch, all I was saying was that the album would have reflected MORE finality with the song - had it been included. I know it was written with someone elizabeth lamers and something musker I noticed it as soon as I got MIH... I KNOW it was a collaboration, which is probably where it got tied up in (royalties) as the vocal had already been completed long before (kinda like "Heaven for Everyone") Just like people who jump on the phrase "its so hopeless, so hopeless to even try" from "its a beautiful day" I wasn't misinterpreting the theme of the song like reviewers did on the above; when clearly the song was saying "itS hopeless to even try stopping him from enjoying himself" That's really it. In short, I was just saying it would have given more credence to the notion it was about the band coming to a close Like 'khashoggi's ship' "who said that my body was all over?" But the theme only appears there and on Was it All Worth It. What's a yo problem? Concluding the post intent : had it all ended there, Queen would have been viewed as a band that capsized when they 1980. Without the return to greatness, all the 80's did was have some novelty songs mixed in among the scant INCREDIBLE ones They wouldn't have been viewed with as much greatness |
| plumrach 17.05.2012 06:16 |
Wasnt Scandal meant to be about his divorce issues as well? |
| GratefulFan 17.05.2012 12:15 |
I recently somewhat mangled a KISS quote from Brian I tried to do from memory so I dug up the paraphrased ones from my last post: In 2004 on his Soapbox, he said: I'm very touched that Too Much Love Will Kill You [has been] a catalyst for onward journeys in emotional lives. I always worried that the song didn't give any answers. I was going to write the sequel ... But I guess that the song, in combination with where my life actually went, does give enough clues. And from an interview here: link Q. What is your favourite song that you've written? B. Well, I think 'We Will Rock You' will be on my tombstone. I'm proud of 'Too Much Love Will Kill You,' probably because it took most out of me to write, and it's probably the most amount of truth I've ever told in one song. I have no idea what Brian's lyrical contribution was or wasn't, but those quotes, and others, certainly leave any reasonable reader with the impression that he contributed lyrically or at least wholly took on the song as an intimate expression of his own life experience. |
| Bohardy 17.05.2012 12:31 |
GratefulFan wrote: I recently somewhat mangled a KISS quote from Brian I tried to do from memory so I dug up the paraphrased ones from my last post: In 2004 on his Soapbox, he said: I'm very touched that Too Much Love Will Kill You [has been] a catalyst for onward journeys in emotional lives. I always worried that the song didn't give any answers. I was going to write the sequel ... But I guess that the song, in combination with where my life actually went, does give enough clues. And from an interview here: http://www.brianmay.com/brian/cambridgeunion/cusreportsd.html Q. What is your favourite song that you've written? B. Well, I think 'We Will Rock You' will be on my tombstone. I'm proud of 'Too Much Love Will Kill You,' probably because it took most out of me to write, and it's probably the most amount of truth I've ever told in one song. I have no idea what Brian's lyrical contribution was or wasn't, but those quotes, and others, certainly leave any reasonable reader with the impression that he contributed lyrically or at least wholly took on the song as an intimate expression of his own life experience. GF, have you never listened to this? I can't quite remember how much it reveals about who came up with what from a lyical standpoint but you should certainly check it out if it's new to you. |
| GratefulFan 17.05.2012 13:35 |
Without clicking just yet, I'm going to guess that 'this' might be the leaked writing session we got through that act of high I think what I'm really trying to say is that Brenski has brought this up in the past, with similar force, whenever somebody raises some point that the song might have been reflective of something or other personal with Brian. I think when somebody takes on the song to the point that Brian has, and represents it as autobiographical in every way, what he did or didn't write becomes a distinction without a difference. It's a very personal, intimate and literal communication - probably much more so than heaps of the songs he wrote alone. Anyway, off to see what 'this' is. :) |
| mooghead 17.05.2012 14:11 |
I have absolutely no idea how a thread about the miracle album ended up being about this song but if anyone cannot see how TMLWKY isnt about the break up of Brians marriage due to falling in love with someone else then they are idiots. Or just very inexperienced. |
| GratefulFan 17.05.2012 16:42 |
If anybody thinks they have a definitive resolution on that double negative let me know. Until then mooghead would like you to know that TMLWKY absolutely is about the inverse of not being about what people propose it's about, but it's not. And that you're probably not not an idiot. :P |
| GratefulFan 17.05.2012 16:45 |
Bohardy wrote: GF, have you never listened to this? I can't quite remember how much it reveals about who came up with what from a lyical standpoint but you should certainly check it out if it's new to you. So thanks...did end up listening. Appreciated the suggestion, the link and the push. It was very difficult to make out all of it at work on middling headphones, but it was at least clear that the lyrics were still being worked out, with several suggestions by Brian. So any belief that this came in as a finished product that Brian simply set to music seems at least somewhat misplaced. |
| waunakonor 17.05.2012 21:06 |
:P |
| waunakonor 17.05.2012 21:07 |
matt z wrote: In short, I was just saying it would have given more credence to the notion it was about the band coming to a close Like 'khashoggi's ship' "who said that my body was all over?"Pretty sure it's "who said that my party was all over?" It still makes sense with the thought of the band coming to a close, plus it also ties into the previous track. Also, I agree with you in that I like Rain Must Fall too. brenski can have his own opinions, and that's fine, but I really like the lyrics on that one. Also, I think that Party/Khashoggi's Ship makes a pretty fantastic album opener. Those two songs aren't very deep, but they're just so much fun, and Party has one of my favorite Brian guitar solos. |
| dowens 18.05.2012 21:19 |
You know, I heard Khashoggi's Ship today and it does sound like Freddie says "who said that my body was all over" instead of "party". Followed by "I'm in pretty good shape" I could get why it could be confused. Of course, the lyrics state otherwise. But so it does with "fried chicken" in One Vision. Anyways, I digress. I'm just saying its amazing to think of the difference between "The Miracle" and "Innuendo". And how different it would have been if we never had the latter. |
| maxpower 19.05.2012 04:10 |
Even if you thought that, the lyrics are printed in the album artwork like most of Queen's albums. Its 100% "who said my party is all over" & I've always heard it that way |
| matt z 19.05.2012 19:25 |
Not to be an ass. But yeah, I know its "party" on the album, but from all review of demos, I thought it was "body" Same goes for the second line tie in. I don't know where or how ppl got those demos, but they exist out there. Easiest point of reference is youtube. I'm guessing Fred was a little tipsy, cause the lyrics sound absolutely "off the cuff". Either my confusion lies in that or the line that I THINK I hear in KHASHOGGI'S SHIP "no one loves my body" (repeat) in the demos. Ah well. Digressing. Anyways, only a few songs focused on something "coming to an end" and the most foretelling was that there would be no tour to come. Which is probably the reason for the I WANT IT ALL video being a "live" performance As for "arguing" over the intent: "these are the days of our lives" was a reflective song by Roger; still it suited that theme just fine. Obviously a matter of circumstance no matter how you put it. It was a reflection of "times passed" (no tour/band coming to close/stage in Roger's adulthood/no longer being a "youngster" The Miracle is a great album, but a mixed bag. Several swipes at the current or past trends in terms of style Innuendo, wasn't so much; which probably makes it a better reflection of the band and a stronger "swan song" |
| Heavenite 20.05.2012 01:44 |
For me Miracle is a bit hot and cold too. The hot bits for me are the early songs: Party, Khashoggi's Ship, Miracle and I Want it All and they are red hot. I just love the way the first two tracks rock and the way they fit in as Party leads into Khashoggi's Ship. I always thought Freddie was saying "party" not "body" and personally I don't think it would have made sense to come out and respond to AIDS rumours like that, although that may be why it might have been changed if he says "body" on the earlier demoes (which I haven't heard). I find the rest of the album enjoyable, but doesn't reach the heights of their better stuff. I'm not a huge fan of Was It All Worth It. I thought it was a bit like Queen parodying Queen and never completely bought into it the fast bit of synthesised orchestration at the end. I was also becoming less and less enthralled with Freddie's vocal at that point too and there seems to me to be a high note in the song where Freddie's vocal needed to be articifially adjusted afterwards so that he hits the note. Better a lower key that he can make in my opinion. So I'm glad that Innuendo and Made in Heaven appeared afterwards. For me, there is bearly a weaker track on either of those albums. And I much prefer Freddie's vocal on these albums too. That makes me wonder if somebody knows when Freddie gave up smoking, which presumably he did at some point before he died, as I think the Innuendo vocal was a strong return to form in terms of the texture of Freddie's voice. |
| purplepiepete 22.06.2012 12:50 |
The Miracle is one of three Queen albums i recently got rid of, the worst Queen album imo.[yes, worse than Hot Space and The Game!] Party and Khashoggi's Ship are pure fillers, and My Baby Does Me, Was It All Worth It, Rain Must Fall, Scandal and The Miracle used make me cringe with embarrassment to be honest. its not all bad though folks. The Invisible Man is fantastic and Breakthru is good too, as is one of the extra tracks, Chinese Torture.' |
| Stelios 22.06.2012 13:05 |
purplepiepete wrote: The Miracle is one of three Queen albums i recently got rid of, the worst Queen album imo.[yes, worse than Hot Space and The Game!]Party and Khashoggi's Ship are pure fillers, and My Baby Does Me, Was It All Worth It, Rain Must Fall, Scandal and The Miracle used make me cringe with embarrassment to be honest.its not all bad though folks.The Invisible Man is fantastic and Breakthru is good too, as is one of the extra tracks, Chinese Torture.'Scandal is not a bad song in any case. |
| Supersonic_Man89 22.06.2012 18:30 |
Got rid of? I really like the album, some of the tunes may have dated but so has a lot of music. For me with Queen albums, even if an album isn't in my top 5 it certainly doesn't mean it's poor. |
| purplepiepete 23.06.2012 18:16 |
yeah i did 'get rid of' the albums. i took them out the back with the rifle and got rid of them just like i did 'old yella' the dog. when i was a little teeny bopper i bought everything i could on queen. but now i'm an old sod i don't need to do that. i realized i was keeping some stuff just for the sake of it, not coz i liked it. why keep crappy queen songs or lps? so i recorded the tracks i like from the miracle, the game and hot space, then put the albums out of their misery. |
| purplepiepete 23.06.2012 18:17 |
just coz its queen, doesn't make it good. |
| waunakonor 23.06.2012 20:01 |
purplepiepete wrote: just coz its queen, doesn't make it good.I hate it when people do that, assume that a Queen fan only likes something because it's by Queen. I love Party and KS for what they are: an album opener, and an awesome, energetic one at that. Second, STELIOS is right; no way is Scandal a bad song. I also strongly disagree with bashing The Miracle and WIAWI?. I even like Rain Must Fall; MBDS is the only one that don't really care for. Also, are you saying that Invisible Man is better than I Want It All? Yeah, I strongly disagree with that, too. I like all those songs because they're good songs, and though I have some bias toward (ok, a lot) toward Queen, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy them. Welcome to the world of art, where everything is subjective and when someone is interested in something you cannot possibly form a coherent reason why that holds up in all cases. |
| purplepiepete 23.06.2012 23:06 |
i just believe SOME people love everything a band does just because its put out by that band. mind you, i was probably a bit like that with queen and slade 35 or 40 years ago myself. i did like "i want it all" quite a bit when i first heard it, but it sounds very predictable these days. so yeah, i personally prefer invisible man. imo i find songs like 'was it all worth it', 'days of our lives' 'show must go on' and even 'we are the champions' to a small degree, a little embarrassing. you know, they all have that 'i did it myyyyyyyy way' feel, don't they? "yes, i had lots of obstacles in my life, but i still managed to do it my way, and you know what?" "i wouldn't change a thing, coz i'm such a great guy!" |
| Heavenite 24.06.2012 00:47 |
Its all definitely a matter of taste. I love Party and Khashoggi's Ship whereas Invisible Man is in my opinion a bit of a kids song. And I'm not crazy about Breakthru either. Love all those "I did it my way" songs you mention too. Its not right or wrong, just differnt as waunakonor says. |
| brENsKi 24.06.2012 10:23 |
AlexRocks wrote: Because they are all about the last days of Freddie Mercury. And to be more specific as each one happened they felt they were doing their last one. They were a change in tone in terms of subject matter and attitude. Less reclessness and more reflectiveness and far more uplifting in some ways. Dare I say Fred and the gang got far more conservative.i get what you're saying, but the argument doesn't hold up really, because MIH was not really about the last days of Freddie... let's look at the evidence: It's a beautiful Day - 1980 Made In Heaven - 1985 Let me Live - 1983 Born to Love You - 1985 heaven for everyone - 1988 beautiful day reprise - 1980 more than half of the tracks pre-date the Miracle and freddie being "unwell" |
| Supersonic_Man89 25.06.2012 04:53 |
I'm not sure the band knew Freddie was ill during the recording of The Miracle anyway. I always assumed they did, but the way they tease him for not touring on the 89 Radio 1 interview, suggests they're incredibly heartless or were just unaware. |
| Martin Packer 25.06.2012 07:26 |
@Supersonic_Man89 I think this was classic "misdirection". As was a lot of stuff from then on (if not earlier). |
| rhyeking 25.06.2012 23:43 |
Brian has said that during The Miracle sessions the band had had "the talk," that Freddie was ill. So, they knew, and probably expected the obvious questions about touring. Innuendo was started only months after The Miracle was finished. In the EPK, I believe Roger says Innuendo started as a continuation of The Miracle, which may be reflected in the unfinished demos like "Self Made Man" and "My Secret Fantasy," whose approach seems to me to be closer to The Miracle sound than that of Innuendo. |
| maxpower 26.06.2012 13:11 |
@ Supersonic_Man89 it's like what Roger said, the rest of the band would say anything to protect Freddie, as Roger appeared very flippant in the interview the whole "I'm waffling" bit about not touring and wanting to. So maybe making light of the situation was easier than getting "heavily" into the reasons for not touring, which they must have known (something wasn't "right") considering the video for I Want It All had just been completed & Freddie's appearance was already noticable |