QueenZone discussion #1306378
Record Collecting (Queen acetates)
| John S Stuart 10.04.2012 16:04 |
This thread is for those who are interested in Record Collecting as a hobby - and not for those interested in MP3 Downloads. Often I get asked "what is an acetate anyway"? (and as we have seen recently) some even think this constitutes anything from murky mafioso underbelly dealing - to out and out downright theft. In reality buying and selling acetates is a very respectable and acceptable hobby - anyone can do; without legal problems or reprisals, UNLESS the owner of the artefact disc wishes to publish his/her recording without the band's consent. Before jumping in feet first; why not read this excellent article on "The Velvet Underground" (OK - a different band, but the same priciple). This should answer many questions and clear up a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions. Besides, it is very interesting and educational in itself. Acetates often carry unreleased tracks or rare demo recordings, and it this is that makes them so collectable, and so valuable. Enjoy the read; feel free to comment afterward; especially Holly2003, Vocal Harmony and CMSDrums (amongst others) who have so vocally argued that this type of collecting must constitute some sort of theft. link |
| The Fonz 10.04.2012 21:02 |
Hi John - i really enjoyed your article in Record Collector all those years ago (in it I believe you mentioned 'lost' songs such as Hangman and Silver Salmon waaaay before it was common knowledge) - any chance of you doing an update one of these days? Off-topic I know, but hey... |
| John S Stuart 10.04.2012 21:25 |
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| Gaabiizz 10.04.2012 23:13 |
Okay! |
| emrabt 11.04.2012 00:36 |
"what is an acetate anyway" I remember asking you if an acetate was made from some kind of soft shellac years ago. If i remember you didn't know for certian what they were made from. |
| brENsKi 11.04.2012 12:24 |
acetates are usually the way record companies do a one-only test press of an album. it's usually done onto an acetone-coated hard material, sometimes hard plastic, sometimes aluminium. they're made by dubbing from the master tapes. they give the studio an idea of what the final pressed LP would sound like, almost like a final quality control check before pressing off thousands'millions of copies. they also don't last very long - due to the "coated" nature of the surface, applying the stylus to the acetate actually wears the disc out. wherease most vinyl records - if looked after can outlive the owner, acetates are usually only good for upto 50 or so plays ps - this is the record industry use of acetates, which differed from the caribbean DJ use (as a dj demo plays) hope this helps |
| Jam Monkey 11.04.2012 14:04 |
A while back I wrote a post on Queen acetates, but I can't find it now in the search. Pity, I seem to remember it was rather good. |
| dysan 11.04.2012 15:29 |
In addition, they are used in much the same way CDRs are used in recording studios now - an acetate can be used in lieu of cassettes to run off of a work in progress / finished tracks etc for the musician to take home. Hence, we get lots of unofficial stuff in this form - see the Queen demo one. |
| YAFF 11.04.2012 21:21 |
Look JSS. You have a right to own the acetates but it is unethical to not give the creators of the music a lossless copy of the audio. To prevent thousands of Queen fans from hearing "Hangman" or any other Queens tracks makes you a selfish asswipe. Don't give them the acetate but give them a copy of the audio in wave format. You would still have a rare "acetate". It would still have great value |
| DJGreg 12.04.2012 06:42 |
YetAnotherFreddieFan wrote: Look JSS. You have a right to own the acetates but it is unethical to not give the creators of the music a lossless copy of the audio. To prevent thousands of Queen fans from hearing "Hangman" or any other Queens tracks makes you a selfish asswipe. Don't give them the acetate but give them a copy of the audio in wave format. You would still have a rare "acetate". It would still have great valueOh, really? |
| ActionFletch 12.04.2012 06:56 |
I found that Velvet Undies link fascinating, thanks! I notice the highest selling LP on the eBay links was The Beatles White Album with the embossed No.5 - the first four were given to each Beatle, so I guess that makes sense! It's a bit sick thinking someone spent half a milllion to get Chapmans copy of Double Fantasy, yuk!! |
| john bodega 12.04.2012 07:00 |
"who have so vocally argued that this type of collecting must constitute some sort of theft" Unless the story of how it came to be in your hands begins and ends with "a member of the band gave it to someone and said they were allowed to sell it", then it's morally fishy to be buying or selling it. I know Fuller screwed you, but all this posturing about the ethics of collecting isn't really doing you any favours because it is a grey area whether you like it or not. You might be able to give everyone assurances that every single item in your possession was purchased with the approval of a member of Queen, but I bet you anything that not everyone you've traded with could make that claim. As a member of what could be judged as a slightly parasitic community, you might sleep easier if you learn to like the mantra : 'easy come, easy go'. |
| john bodega 12.04.2012 07:01 |
PS. That Velvet Underground thing was a good read! |
| tcc 12.04.2012 07:38 |
Zebonka12 wrote: "who have so vocally argued that this type of collecting must constitute some sort of theft" Unless the story of how it came to be in your hands begins and ends with "a member of the band gave it to someone and said they were allowed to sell it", then it's morally fishy to be buying or selling it. I know Fuller screwed you, but all this posturing about the ethics of collecting isn't really doing you any favours because it is a grey area whether you like it or not. You might be able to give everyone assurances that every single item in your possession was purchased with the approval of a member of Queen, but I bet you anything that not everyone you've traded with could make that claim. As a member of what could be judged as a slightly parasitic community, you might sleep easier if you learn to like the mantra : 'easy come, easy go'. I must say upfront that I just want to learn what is the concern about this issue. Is it to advise people that they should not buy or trade in music pieces/shows, or if they had bought/recorded they should not share it, or if they had bought it they should return it to the band or what should be done ? In another thread a number of people keep talking about this. Since you mentioned it here again, I just thought of asking it. |
| Dane 12.04.2012 08:56 |
So this Velvet underground one is the most expensive, most rare of all acetates on the net. And after clicking a few times I was able to download the entire acetate content. So only physical media carying objects have value.. digital copies of their contents, however great for listeners, do not hold their value. So.... when will I get a PM with a 192kb MP3 of 'Hangman'? I promiss the acetate will nót decrease in value! |
| TRS-Romania 13.04.2012 02:57 |
@john I have a Freddie Mercury Acetate of "Excercise in Free love". On it it says the duration of the track is 3:58 min and they wrote Freddie as Freddy ;-) This acetate has never been played and has been framed behind a tin layer of glass for over 10 years. Here is the picture I just made. link Does it have any value? (I wouldnt care that much, just wondering). And does the duration as mentioned on the acetate match up with official versions? Could it be possible that this acetate has a different version than the original recording? |
| Ron 13.04.2012 05:24 |
TRS.. there is always a possibility that an acetate has a different version. The 3:58 on yours matches with the released version. You cant say if it is different until it has been played and compared with the released version. My guess is that this is an acetate for the Great Pretender 7" release and you have the B-side. The spelling error on the label makes it interesting as either the writer had no clue, was not paying attention or maybe this is a pirate issue and thus the creator was not well informed (or once again, he did not pay attention to what he was doing). It ofcourse has a value. I for instance would probably cough up between 150 and 200 euros for it. Others might pay more or less. |
| inu-liger 13.04.2012 05:28 |
TRS, that pretty much matches up with the official length, which is around 3:56 anyways. There COULD be the odd chance that the mix itself might be different, but one can only find out by playing the acetate (I'd recommend whilst digitally archiving at the same time, if you're going to do that). I'm just a tad envious you have that othewise. That's a great rarity to have :-) |
| TRS-Romania 13.04.2012 08:06 |
@inu-liger This acetate used to be stored in Garden Lodge for a number of years. It is one of those acetates that was brought home by either Freddie (or his entourage, Jim-Phoebe-Joe) after a Townhouse session and probably ended up in the loft of Garden Lodge. In 1992 (when some of Freddie's stuff was being devided among his staff) this acetate left Garden Lodge and remained in the UK and then Ireland (where JH moved back to). In the end I got it from JH in 2001 as a present and it has always been behind a protective cover and never been played. @RonB PS: I would not mind to sell this at all as I am not a collector anymore. |
| John S Stuart 13.04.2012 09:02 |
TRS-Romania wrote: I have a Freddie Mercury Acetate of "Excercise in Free love". Does it have any value?TRS-R: The simple answer is yes it does; however like Ron I would say this is the B-side, and that the A-side should be "The Great Pretender". I don't think this has any special mix or unreleased versions because they really had to dig deep for the Freddie-box set and vitually everything of any musical value has been extracted from the session. Nevertheless, it is a nice artefact, and is worth owning even if just to keep in the frame, and on the wall. I would suggest if you want to sell, it seems Ron has made a very decent offer, and that you two should work some sort of private deal between you outside the glare of Qz publicity. |
| TRS-Romania 13.04.2012 14:51 |
Hi John Thanks for the answer, very much appriciated. @RonB, I would be willing to sell it. You mentioned 150-200 EURO, so why dont we settle for 175 EURO (+ P&P). |
| Ron 13.04.2012 15:04 |
TRS I already sent you a PM, please get in touch with me and we can go through the details. Thx! |
| Ron 13.04.2012 15:10 |
....en als ik het goed heb, ben je ook nog een Nederlander... :) |
| TRS-Romania 13.04.2012 15:12 |
Klopt! :) |
| TRS-Romania 13.04.2012 15:15 |
PM sent by the way :) |
| MERQRY 13.04.2012 15:19 |
A question: The acetates can be played with a common turntable? |
| Ron 13.04.2012 15:28 |
Yes they can be played with any turntable BUT not too often. Play em like 20-30 times (no idea about the exact nbr) and they will be worn out and worthless. They were never made to be played more than a few times as they were made for reference purposes only. |
| thomasquinn 32989 17.04.2012 08:42 |
And please, for the love of all that's good, use a good stylus that hasn't been over-used and set the arm as light as you can without causing it to skip. |
| 1sharppencil 17.04.2012 10:58 |
and at the same time make a digital copy and never play it again - those things were not made to last - they're test demos, designed to show how a record would sound - flexis by comparison are a million times better! |
| Togg 25.04.2012 04:04 |
Personally I can understand why collecting these is interesting to people, it's when it turns into such a rare article that it tends to bring out the worst in people. One view of the TV programme Four Rooms is a classic example, four more unsavoury individuals it would be difficult to find. |
