| GratefulFan 28.03.2012 12:19 |
Go ahead... :) |
| greaserkat 28.03.2012 13:18 |
El Salvador. We do not have a good youth soccer development program as we did a couple of years ago. The U-23 USA team had a horrible defense, which the same can said for the Senior Mens National Team, and the goalkeeper for the U-23 team sucks. How the hell do you let a team score with just 10 seconds left in extra time?? |
| GratefulFan 28.03.2012 13:20 |
And who else beat you before that? |
| greaserkat 28.03.2012 13:25 |
The contry with the Maple leaf on their flag, lol. Canada. But in the Senior Mens Soccer team, that's a different story ;) |
| GratefulFan 28.03.2012 13:36 |
Oh? What was the score? Was it something respectable like 1-0? |
| greaserkat 28.03.2012 13:54 |
2-0 |
| GratefulFan 28.03.2012 13:56 |
Oh it was 2-0? Well that's not very respectable then. :P |
| greaserkat 28.03.2012 14:03 |
lol, it's ok, I'm pretty sure we'll get our revenge during the Worlc Cup qualifiers |
| GratefulFan 28.03.2012 14:07 |
Hey stop that! I'm basking. |
| Micrówave 28.03.2012 14:35 |
Um... you're asking who beat the US at Soccer?!? Really? Take your pick. Does it matter? Soccer matters here as much as Women's golf. That's like asking What Canadian NBA team would have a tough time beating potential College Champ Kentucky? But enjoy your glory, I'll see if they even bother to put any footage on ESPN. |
| greaserkat 28.03.2012 14:57 |
Microwave, the thing about soccer fans in the USA and Canada is that we don't give a shit what other sport fans in the USA have to say about soccer. The rest of the world has recognized that the US is coming up quickly in their international level of play and Canada will soon be there as there are more Canadian expansion teams in the MLS now. |
| GratefulFan 28.03.2012 16:18 |
I'm so dumb at soccer that when I was waiting for a hockey game to start on Monday and it suddenly occurred to me that the Canada/Cuba game might be on for me to check the score I kept fipping back and forth between the soccer game and the guide in confusion because the guide kept telling me the soccer game was over in five minutes but the game kept saying 88 minutes, 89 minutes. Despite this I actually couldn't wrap my head around the fact that the soccer clock was counting up for like two whole minutes. (Hockey counts down) And then something happened and somebody rolled around on the ground a bit and this resulted in a free kick or penalty kick or whatever and Cuba tied Canada in the 90th minute. I think that's how I finally figured the clock was counting up, because the commentators pretty much lost their minds at this turn of events. I didn't completely know what they were talking about, but the subtext was definitely "How can this team of moronic Canadians with the apparent athletic skills of drunken donkeys have allowed this to occur?" They kept making these terrible noises during the replay like "Ohhhhhhh", "OHHHHHHH", "OHHHHHH!!!!". So soccer and I hardly know each other and it was still hurting me inside. Then I watched a seriously great hockey game to get over the whole ordeal. Anyway Canada should get creamed by Mexico on Saturday. Though one never knows I suppose...all the pressure and expectations will be on Mexico, which can benefit the underdog greatly. |
| Micrówave 29.03.2012 09:56 |
greaserkat wrote: Microwave, the thing about soccer fans in the USA and Canada is that we don't give a shit what other sport fans in the USA have to say about soccer. The rest of the world has recognized that the US is coming up quickly in their international level of play and Canada will soon be there as there are more Canadian expansion teams in the MLS now. That and just it's a very boring sport. I mean, basically, it's the same concept as hockey... except one big difference. Just watch each. You won't nod off during a hockey game. Try and try as they have to get it some attention here, still that one fact remains. It's boring. I mean would you watch a Marathon on TV? Or even be a spectator? People driving around in circles seems to be more popular... who would have thought that? But Opening Day? Ahh, that's sweet... and so close. |
| greaserkat 29.03.2012 11:37 |
The example you provide is that of the American sports fan. If soccer was sooooo boring, then why is it the most popular sport in the world? Americans like things where they don't have to do shit, even when beeing a spectator at a sports event: Nascar, sit your ass down for 4 hours and watch cars go around in a circle while eating burgers, hot dogs and beer; Baseball, sit your ass for 3-4 hours and watch "athletes" who are almost the same weight as you stand for most of the game trying to hit a ball that is thrown at them every 40 seconds or so while they eat burgers, hot dogs and beer. |
| GratefulFan 29.03.2012 11:45 |
I like baseball, but it could be argued that it is boring, which I think demonstrates that the mechanics of any given sport are really far less important than the cultural memory. It's interesting that Microwave pointed out the similarities between soccer and hockey - in 2010 leading up to the World Cup when there was actual serious mainstream media commentary about whether or not soccer was boring, I recall a piece that complained that both hockey and soccer were boring for the same reason: that for all the activity there was a relatively low probability of anything unusual or rewarding (goals etc.) happening. I don't think that a game that is so loved globally by as many people as soccer is can possibly be objectively boring. Many aspects of North American culture are kind of fast and noisy and full of instant rewards and short attention spans, and in some ways our games reflect that. Soccer requires patience and the appreciation of more subtle things. With an average of about a third of the shots on goal of a typical hockey game, pace and subtlety make it a hard game to learn and understand, which probably directly results in many finding it a hard game to love. |
| Micrówave 29.03.2012 12:54 |
I wasn't saying that to insult your sport, I was providing the reasoning for lack of interest in the US. It has to be BAM BAM BAM or we lose it. But saying it is the most popular sport in the world? Where do you come up with that? The most watched (televised) sporting contest EVER was a regular season NBA Basketball game. Does that make Basketball the world's most popular sport, No. Yes, it did happen to be the Dallas Mavericks... not the Lakers or the Heat. There's many ways to skew something into the "Most Popular". Remember, Freddie was not the most popular front man... Bon Jovi was... according to a poll. Maybe soccer would become more popular if their fans started eating BURGERS, HOT DOGS, and BEER. But then the fans might spill their urine bombs onto their food, thus ruining it. |
| greaserkat 29.03.2012 15:23 |
Most popular sport sport in South America is soccer, in Europe it's soccer, in Africa it's soccer, bottom half of North America it's soccer. Just ask our fellow Queenzoners here from various part of the world what the most popular sport is in their country. |
| Micrówave 29.03.2012 16:38 |
More people buy Cowboys jerseys in South America, more people buy Cowboys jerseys in Europe, more people buy Cowboy jerseys in Africa. Only in China do NBA jerseys outsell Cowboy jerseys AND soccer jerseys. More people watch Baseball on TV. Like I said, depending onhow you skew it we could go at this for days. Fact remains, it's a very boring sport. What exactly is exciting about it? You kick a ball and run around chasing it. The only skill is the 7 or 8 times PER GAME that it's actually kicked at the goal. Plus, what sport do little kids start out with? SOCCER!!! Because it's so easy. You don't see too many 5 year olds putting on the pads for football or hockey. I think most in the USA are pretty much A-OK with other countries wiping the walls with us in soccer. |
| Micrówave 29.03.2012 16:50 |
Most valueable Sports Franchises 1. Manchester United 1.87b 2. Dallas Cowboys 1.81b 3. New York Yankees 1.7b 4. Washington Redskins 1.55b 5. Real Madrid 1.45b 6. New England Patriots 1.37b 7. Arsenal 1.19b 8. New York Giants 1.18b 9. Houston Texans 1.17b 10. New York Jets 1.15b That's 6 NFL teams in the top ten... only 3 Soccer teams. But overall, I'd say it's about a push. Soccer is played all over the world and can't generate more revenue than a sport played in one country. |
| GratefulFan 29.03.2012 17:07 |
Micrówave wrote: Plus, what sport do little kids start out with? SOCCER!!! Because it's so easy. You don't see too many 5 year olds putting on the pads for football or hockey. Most parents here are like me - they have a sentimental knot of about 8 pairs of soccer shoes in their basements they haven't been able to bear throwing out. The main benefit of soccer or t-ball for small children over hockey or football is not the 'easiness' but the minimal equipment. They grow like weeds and all you have to replace are shoes annually and shin pads less often than that. I think that's why most parents choose soccer for little ones here, along with the low pressure and great exercise. It's pretty much what everybody does who wants to avoid 6:00 am arena slots for hockey. |
| GratefulFan 29.03.2012 17:18 |
Micrówave wrote: I think most in the USA are pretty much A-OK with other countries wiping the walls with us in soccer. I think that's it right there: nothing succeeds like success. Right now the sport has some local interest and general cachet in the US and Canada as an elite spectator sport and/or counter-cultural response, but when they start to win, the mainstream attention will come. Case in point, this thread wouldn't exist were it not for an upset. |
| greaserkat 29.03.2012 17:27 |
Micrówave wrote: What exactly is exciting about it? You kick a ball and run around chasing it. The only skill is the 7 or 8 times PER GAME that it's actually kicked at the goal.How many skills per game do you get in football? 2/3 of the running game is to run straight into the people that are trying to stop you. What about in baseball? Stand around and get a ball thrown at you and try to hit it with a stick (I'm not saying its easy, but that's ONE skill). What about basketball? Trying to make a ball into a basket that is 10 feet high with players whose average height is about 6'5". Just like you said, the arguement can be skewed into any way we want it to. You have the right to say that soccer is a boring sport, but you cannot generalize that into the rest of the world. How does buying Cowboys jerseys in South America and Africa equate that its is a very popular sport in those regions? |
| GratefulFan 29.03.2012 17:40 |
greaserkat wrote: How does buying Cowboys jerseys in South America and Africa equate that its is a very popular sport in those regions? Great point. People just like buying American crap. I chose a hotel in Seoul one time for it's proximity to a large traditional Korean street market. I couldn't wait to get there and explore. First thing I saw was a seemingly endless glut of American crap. NY Yankee hats, Vegas this, LA that. I sat on a plane for 14 hours for this? And a bunch of food with eyes? No I did not! |
| tero! 48531 30.03.2012 00:19 |
Micrówave wrote: Most valueable Sports Franchises1. Manchester United 1.87b2. Dallas Cowboys 1.81b3. New York Yankees 1.7b4. Washington Redskins 1.55b5. Real Madrid 1.45b6. New England Patriots 1.37b7. Arsenal 1.19b8. New York Giants 1.18b9. Houston Texans 1.17b10. New York Jets 1.15bThat's 6 NFL teams in the top ten... only 3 Soccer teams. But overall, I'd say it's about a push. Soccer is played all over the world and can't generate more revenue than a sport played in one country.... And the value of these franchises is determined by the same financial masterminds who brought us the recent financial crises. The simple fact that soccer is played in virtually every country of the world makes it more popular than football which is only played in some countries. |
| Holly2003 30.03.2012 05:44 |
Americans play baseball and football because they don't want to be beaten by pesky foreigners. And honestly? As much as I like my American chums, no one gives a shit what they think about "soccer". |
| Micrówave 30.03.2012 12:16 |
A bit snitty, you soccer fans. Figures.
Ok, to address some of that, since you all aren't very aware of the "business" of sport...
How many skills in football? Dude, you really need to learn a little about the sport you talk about. If it were simply just"run up the middle and go", there would be no practices, no draft, no coaches, no plays. But in soccer? Right. There are only 2 or 3 if you call them "Skills".
How come Cowboy jerseys determine popularity? Because of the marketing genius. They aren't buying their own team's jerseys. It's not a matter of an "American" jersey... it's a cowboys jersey or a Yankee hat. Not a Manchester U silky top.
And from a sport that's played in ONE country... not worldwide. That's saying something.
And the value of these franchises is determined by the same financial masterminds who brought us the recent financial crises. Ummm... still, that's the value. And the LA Dodgers were just purchased for 2 Billion Dollars!!! By Magic Johnson, by the way. The financial "crises" has nothing to do with that. Do you think anyone would plop down that much cash for a soccer team? Not if they wanted to make money. |
| The Real Wizard 30.03.2012 15:44 |
2 billion for any sports team is obscene. And it's no reason to suggest that soccer is a less popular or less important sport because similar business deals haven't gone down in Europe or any of the other 150 countries it's played in.
How come Cowboy jerseys determine popularity? Because of the marketing genius.And marketing is certainly no reason to make such a suggestion either. Do you think a kid in Ghana will love soccer more if he gets a new Chelsea jersey? More broadly, do you actually think every country and culture in the world values money above all else? Think before imposing your myopic views and complete ignorance of cultural anthropology on everyone who doesn't see the world as you do. Soccer is the world's most popular sport, and money has little to do with it. Cricket is in second place. Field hockey is third. American football requires no more skill than soccer or any other physically intensive sport. Exactly what scale would you like to measure that on? The number of muscles exerted? The number of litres of water consumed per match? Number of injuries per month? Either way, don't talk about skill in any sport with such an arrogant tone when the second-most popular sport in the US is driving around in a circle for several hours. That said, it's likely the overall simplicity of soccer that makes it the most globally cherished sport. American football is played in about 20 countries. Soccer is played in virtually every country. 30 billion people watched the 2006 World Cup in Germany (obviously this figure includes people watching more than one game). No other sport comes remotely close. We already had this discussion during the last World Cup. No need for you to lose the same debate twice. |
| The Real Wizard 30.03.2012 15:50 |
Holly2003 wrote: Americans play baseball and football because they don't want to be beaten by pesky foreigners.Bingo. Championships with only American teams (and occasionally a Canadian team) are called "world championships." Self-aggrandizing to the extreme. |
| Micrówave 30.03.2012 18:06 |
American football requires no more skill than soccer or any other physically intensive sport.Spoken by someone who doesn't know much about the sport. Go ahead a continue to sling insults... you're not doing much good. Running and kicking a ball. So it's more difficult than Rugby, too I guess. Those guys just take it easy by knocking each other all over the field. Field Hockey? Are you kidding me? You live in a strange world. All you can say is it's the worlds most popular sport but no data to support it... as usual from you, Bob. But like I said, it's easy to skew a "world's most popular" into anything... you just don't understand that. And you obviously don't understand the business side of sport. This thread wasn't about kids playing soccer, unorganized, in dirt fields in Ghana. This was about a LEAGUE. FIFA is not the most popular LEAGUE in the world because a bunch of kids play soccer, unorganized, in dirt fields in Ghana. Perhaps if we start a thread about "What sport do most people play" then your statements would be fitting. Unfortunately, in this context, you are lacking intelligible dialogue to continue. You should really stop. |
| Micrówave 30.03.2012 18:12 |
second-most popular sport in the US is driving around in a circle for several hours.What an idiot. Have you ever heard the term "The Top 4"? It's a very common sports term, FOOTBALL, BASEBALL, BASKETBALL, and HOCKEY are the top 4 sports in the US. Go figure a foreigner to guess it was Nascar!!! You read too many slanted opinions of America, dude. No wonder why you think I have a horse and shoot pistols. You're a fucking child, intellectually. I got some news for you too. No matter how many records Queen sold in the UK doesn't matter... it's how many you sell in the US. But somewhere, in your fantasy world, you're really pissed off about that too. Damn Americans. Why don't you lose your bigotry towards America. I don't insult whatever country you live in but all you do is shit on America. 30 billion people watched the 2006 World Cup in Germany (obviously this figure includes people watching more than one game). No other sport comes remotely close. Again, what an idiot. Why don't you find out what the most watched single game. It's an NBA game you dork. Not a soccer game. BOB: Here, let me dig up a 6 year old stat and add up every game and then brag about 30 billion people. By the way, next time you make that up, keep in mind there's only 7 billion people IN THE ENTIRE WORLD you fricking idiot. You're John Simon, aren't you? |
| GratefulFan 30.03.2012 18:38 |
Micrówave wrote: All you can say is it's the worlds most popular sport but no data to support it... as usual from you, Bob. But like I said, it's easy to skew a "world's most popular" into anything... you just don't understand that. I think it's at least fair to say it's the closest thing the world has to a truly international sport. When you consider the variance in geography and climate, economies and political situations and history and culture, there is some specialness in the idea that one common human endeavour can emerge. Pointed, practiced indifference does seem like kind of an odd response to that. Do you see that at all? Canada for example lacks history and experience and access, but I don't think it lacks curiosity or respect for the game. |
| Holly2003 30.03.2012 18:55 |
Micrówave wrote:second-most popular sport in the US is driving around in a circle for several hours.What an idiot. Have you ever heard the term "The Top 4"? It's a very common sports term, FOOTBALL, BASEBALL, BASKETBALL, and HOCKEY are the top 4 sports in theUS. Go figure a foreigner to guess it was Nascar!!! You read too many slanted opinions of America, dude. No wonder why you think I have a horse and shoot pistols. You're a fucking child, intellectually. I got some news for you too. No matter how many records Queen sold in the UK doesn't matter... it's how many you sell in the US. But somewhere, in your fantasy world, you're really pissed off about that too. Damn Americans. Why don't you lose your bigotry towards America. I don't insult whatever country you live in but all you do is shit on America.30 billion people watched the 2006 World Cup in Germany (obviously this figure includes people watching more than one game). No other sport comes remotely close.Again, what an idiot. Why don't you find out what the most watched single game. It's an NBA game you dork. Not a soccer game. BOB: Here, let me dig up a 6 year old stat and add up every game and then brag about 30 billion people. By the way, next time you make that up, keep in mind there's only 7 billion people IN THE ENTIRE WORLD you fricking idiot. You're John Simon, aren't you? You're correct. Nothing that ever has happened, or ever will happen, matters until it's been validated by Americans. American sport is basically a series of beer commercials, interupted every now and again by a few seconds of what's laughably called "action". Discuss. |
| The Real Wizard 30.03.2012 18:59 |
link
The most watched sporting events worldwide - 2008 Olympics opening ceremony, 2006 World Cup soccer final, and 2011 cricket semi-final. No NBA in sight.
Micrówave wrote: No matter how many records Queen sold in the UK doesn't matter... it's how many you sell in the US.Yes, because the US is the only country in the world that matters. It is the centre of the universe. We get that. Defining the world's most popular sport is best measured by the number of people who take interest in it, not the dollars made or spent in one particular place. link link Soccer, cricket and field hockey are the most watched/played sports in the world. None of your favourite sports are in the top 5. But I'm sure you'll soon be twisting reality to fit your perceptions as usual, saying those statistics are wrong, that my research sources aren't valid, or that it doesn't matter because most Americans wouldn't agree. I'm not anti-American. I know many fantastic people from your country, and New York is one of my favourite cities to visit. The reality is - you are anti-anything that isn't approved of by America, be it a sport, an idea or a statistic. Virtually every post you make in the personal forum has a xenophobic tone to it. You are so full of anger. And all towards someone you've never met. But I'd probably be angry too if everyone I spoke with from outside my country told me that I had no concept of reality outside of my borders. |
| The Real Wizard 30.03.2012 19:26 |
Holly2003 wrote: American sport is basically a series of beer commercials, interupted every now and again by a few seconds of what's laughably called "action". Discuss.I wouldn't be so harsh. It's more like a few minutes. In all seriousness, I do rather like baseball. It's a wonderful game of patience and numbers. The sheer number of possible statistics is staggering. Fun fact about me - my dream job is to be baseball's chief statistician. |
| greaserkat 31.03.2012 19:19 |
Not all of us Americans are the same, so hopefully you guys are not generalizing every American as Microwave (which I know you're not). |
| Micrówave 02.04.2012 11:44 |
Most watched single game: Houston Rockets vs Dallas Mavericks But it wasn't because of the US. This was the first and only time where two Chinese players matched up... Yao Ming vs Wang Zhi Zhi. I bought a Mavericks "Wang" jersey and still wear it... although I'm not a fan of either team, it's a fun jersey. About 96% of the ratings were based on Chinese Ratings. Over a billion people watched that ONE game. |
| Micrówave 02.04.2012 11:50 |
Not all of us Americans are the sameYes, I'm a little off. I'm not afraid of speaking against the common majority. But still, I went ahead and watched two soccer matches this weekend. B O R I N G. And I will admit that Soccer is the most popular sport in the world... by your definition Bob. Mostpeople that play or take interest. As I said before, when it's time to get your 5 year old some coordination skills and basic exercise, Soccer is the default... thus definitely making it the most "popular" for any joe blow. But for anyone who is a fan of competitive sport, Soccer is definitely weak. I think I know how I could like it. Confine the field to the size of a basketball court. That way, we wouldn't be watching dudes jog for 44 minutes. I'm not particularly fond of watching that. I like plays. I like body checks into the boards. I like a two minute offense. I like the bases loaded, bottom of the 9th, with two outs. I like the pick & roll I don't like dudes jogging...which is about all soccer players do 90% of the time. |
| Micrówave 02.04.2012 11:58 |
Most people that play or take interestUpdate. "Checkers" (Draughts) is the "sport" played by most people ever. We're talking centuries of humans. |
| GratefulFan 02.04.2012 15:44 |
So Mexico beat Canada 3-1. The crowd was overwhelmingly stacked with Mexico fans and they all had signs and hats with writing designed to intimidate the Canadians and their fans. The writing all said...um...what was it again...? It was pretty fun and trash-talky...um...oh yes! The writing all said "MEXICO". I rest my case. :P |
| greaserkat 02.04.2012 16:15 |
Mexico is probably the only nation who has home field advantage when they play their away games in the US. Which sucks cause I HATE the Mexican National Soccer Team. |
| Micrówave 02.04.2012 18:14 |
Greaserkat wrote: I HATE the MexicanOh geez... you and Brian May!!! Actually, I watched that too... at a Mexican restaurant coincidentally. |
| queenUSA 02.04.2012 22:40 |
Pretty sad when the only "American" soccer player I can name is David Beckham. We can't even yell USA USA USA with that one. I think his import was to raise interest for the sport here - so far, not working too much. I wonder when it will catch on better in the U.S? |
| The Real Wizard 02.04.2012 23:37 |
Micrówave wrote: But for anyone who is a fan of competitive sport, Soccer is definitely weak.Then I guess people in 190 countries are wrong and you must be right. Thanks for sharing your wisdom yet again. |
| GratefulFan 03.04.2012 15:53 |
You won't see this at a soccer game. Probably for the best. :) |
| Holly2003 03.04.2012 16:45 |
GratefulFan wrote: You won't see this at a soccer game. Probably for the best. :) Indeed, and that's because most soccer players are worried about their expensive haircuts being ruined. On a serious note though any kind of punch, headbut etc in a soccer (I have trouble saying "soccer" but will make the effort for you :) game will lead to immediate expulsion, probably resulting in that team losing. The player would also be banned for 6 games for violent conduct. Even rugby has cleaned up its act: a few years back, punch ups were normal but now throwing a punch can lead to expulsion, fine, ban etc. Of course, rugby players find other ways to inflict damage and it's still a very tough game, but it's organised violence now, as opposed to disorganised fighting :) However, it looks like in ice hockey the point of expulsion is reached only when the violence spreads to people in suits or to fans! |
| GratefulFan 03.04.2012 23:32 |
The funny thing is that for all that beating each other about there was only ONE of those fights that drew five minute majors for fighting! The rest were minor unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and virtually everybody that could be seen leaving the game was only doing so because their minor two minute penalties exceeded the remaining time onthe clock. I think the only people that ultimately actually got ejected were the two from the coaching staff! LOL The head coach of the Flyers got a $10,000 fine as well, and the assistant on the other side a $2,500 fine. Normally every one of those fights that happened would have been assessed five minute majors had they occurred singly in a game. A fight that players both engage in will so rarely directly result in a game misconduct (ejection from the game) that I almost want to say never. They escalate to ejection from the game and possible fines and suspensions if they resume after they've been separated and stopped, or if players disregard or disrespect the referees in some other way related to the incident. They also must drop their sticks and gloves to reduce the likelihood of serious injury. Probably seems base and even barbaric that a sport so openly tolerates and even encourages fistfights, but there is a code that makes it's own sense given the particular features and rhythms of the game. I don't personally enjoy the fighting and just treat it as I would a boring commerical - something I just have to get through to get back to the game. That said, this brawl was of unusual proportions and duration and had some interesting dynamics which made it somewhat noteworthy and worth watching. Perhaps in some contrast to rugby, contact to the head or other know-or-ought-to-know injurious actions during play are zero tolerance. A player will be booted, suspended, fined and humiliated if he irresponsibly endangers another player in fact or in theory. Player reputations can be mud for ages and if the incident is serious or costly enough they can literally be pariahs of the game and the league for the remainder of their careers. Todd Bertuzzi ended Steve Moore's career with one sucker punch to the back of the head nearing a decade ago and he changed his own life as much as he changed Moore's. Maybe even more. |
| Micrówave 04.04.2012 10:38 |
Perhaps in some contrast to rugby, contact to the head or other know-or-ought-to-know injurious actions during play are zero tolerance.I'm surprised this issue hasn't been a topic until just recently. The NFL has made some drastic changes torules and penalties, yet hasn't this happened ever since each sport came about? They (Am. Football) had leather helmets in the 50s! Hockey players used to never wear helmets! Then I guess people in 190 countries are wrong and you must be right. Side note for Bob: And to think, for a sport played by "190 other countries" it took them this long to start doing something about it? Those "190 other countries" were WRONG!!!! Thanks to the NFL, they're scrutinizing head injuries at all levels and all sports... finally. |
| Holly2003 04.04.2012 10:49 |
GratefulFan wrote: The funny thing is that for all that beating each other about there was only ONE of those fights that drew five minute majors for fighting! The rest were minor unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and virtually everybody that could be seen leaving the game was only doing so because their minor two minute penalties exceeded the remaining time onthe clock. I think the only people that ultimately actually got ejected were the two from the coaching staff! LOL The head coach of the Flyers got a $10,000 fine as well, and the assistant on the other side a $2,500 fine.Normally every one of those fights that happened would have been assessed five minute majors had they occurred singly in a game. A fight that players both engage in will so rarely directly result in a game misconduct (ejection from the game) that I almost want to say never. They escalate to ejection from the game and possible fines and suspensions if they resume after they've been separated and stopped, or if players disregard or disrespect the referees in some other way related to the incident. They also must drop their sticks and gloves to reduce the likelihood of serious injury.Probably seems base and even barbaric that a sport so openly tolerates and even encourages fistfights, but there is a code that makes it's own sense given the particular features and rhythms of the game. I don't personally enjoy the fighting and just treat it as I would a boring commerical - something I just have to get through to get back to the game. That said, this brawl was of unusual proportions and duration and had some interesting dynamics which made it somewhat noteworthy and worth watching.Perhaps in some contrast to rugby, contact to the head or other know-or-ought-to-know injurious actions during play are zero tolerance. A player will be booted, suspended, fined and humiliated if he irresponsibly endangers another player in fact or in theory. Player reputations can be mud for ages and if the incident is serious or costly enough they can literally be pariahs of the game and the league for the remainder of their careers. Todd Bertuzzi ended Steve Moore's career with one sucker punch to the back of the head nearing a decade ago and he changed his own life as much as he changed Moore's. Maybe even more.Perhaps ice hockey or sport in general should be given ratings like movies. I would suggest ice hockey be given a 15 certificate, which is described by the British Board of Film Classification as follows (slightly modifed by me): Suitable only for 15 years and over No one younger than 15 may attend ice hockey. No one younger than 15 may rent or buy a ‘15’ rated ice hockey video. Discrimination The game as a whole must not endorse discriminatory language or behaviour. Drugs Drug taking may be shown but ice hockey as a whole must not promote or encourage drug misuse. Except painkillers: take as many as you like. The misuse of easily accessible and highly dangerous substances (for example, aerosols or solvents) is unlikely to be acceptable. Horror Strong threat and menace are permitted unless sadistic or sexualised. Imitable behaviour Dangerous behaviour (for example, hanging, suicide and self-harming) should not dwell on detail which could be copied. Easily accessible weapons, like hockey sticks, should not be glamorised. No attacks on team managers or fans (unless they really deserve it) Language There may be frequent use of strong language (for example, ‘fuck’). The strongest terms (for example, ‘cunt’) may be acceptable if justified by the context. Aggressive or repeated use of the strongest language is unlikely to be acceptable. "Go home Yankee fuckheads!" is fine. Nudity Nudity may be allowed in a sexual context but without strong detail. There are no constraints on nudity in a non-sexual or educational context. Chicks only. Sex Sexual activity may be portrayed without strong detail. There may be strong verbal references to sexual behaviour, especially "yo mamma" references, but the strongest references are unlikely to be acceptable unless justified by context. Works whose primary purpose is sexual arousal or stimulation are unlikely to be acceptable. Theme No theme is prohibited, provided the treatment is appropriate for 15 year olds. And French Canadians,. Violence Violence may be strong but should not dwell on the infliction of pain or injury. The strongest gory images are unlikely to be acceptable. Strong sadistic or sexualised violence is also unlikely to be acceptable, except in the Olympics wehen anything goes. There may be detailed verbal references to sexual violence but any portrayal of sexual violence must be discreet and have a strong contextual justification. But two chicks kissing in the audience is fine. |
| GratefulFan 04.04.2012 11:16 |
Ah hahahahah! I could be here for 10 minutes quoting the best parts for special lols, but in the interest of time just let me highlight "Except painkillers. Take as many as you like". However, I need to request that hockey be downgraded to a 12. I was 12 when I fell in love with it, all by myself, no dads or brothers required. It's all mine, and this is important to me. If this means that the naked chicks in the audience can only kiss behind "Go Home Yankees fuckheads" signs, I can grudgingly live with that. |
| GratefulFan 04.04.2012 11:21 |
I bit of trivia I forgot yesterday evening: I'm going to gamble that somewhere in the inverse of the Venn intersection of "I already know", "I don't care" and "Who the hell is John Ondrasik" there might be some soul interested in the fact that the solo artist that goes by "Five For Fighting" (100 years, Superman Song) is a huge hockey fan and the name is in fact a reference to the standard five minute penalty issued for fighting in the NHL. |
| GratefulFan 04.04.2012 17:06 |
GratefulFan wrote: If this means that the naked chicks in the audience can only kiss behind "Go Home Yankees fuckheads" signs, I can grudgingly live with that. LOL. Re-reading this just now it occurs to me that I might want to clarify that I hold no special affinity for naked women kissing. Much the same is true for Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato sandwiches. So it's the same thing. Well the same thing If a sandwich could hold a trash talk sign at a hockey game, which it actually can't. Not that there's anything wrong with that. |
| Micrówave 09.04.2012 11:20 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Think before imposing your myopic views and complete ignorance of cultural anthropology on everyone who doesn't see the world as you do. Soccer is the world's most popular sport, and money has little to do with it. Cricket is in secondplace. Field hockey is third. Not only did I think about it before "imposing my myopic views" I did a little science experiment as well. Right after the "Your Favorite Football Team" thread was started... I started a "Your Favorite NFL Football Team". Guess which one had more response? ON A SITE PRIMARLY FREQUENTED BY NON US FANS!!! If it were such the "Most Popular Sport" as you suggest, pinhead, then why didn't the NFL thread get pushed to page 3 and more than 5 people respond to the Football thread? Now go get your shinebox, Bob. It is a boring sport and no one really cares. Except children. |
| GratefulFan 09.04.2012 11:59 |
All you football fans be nice to Microwave. His hockey team lost it's seed in the Western conference and lost enough late season games in a weak division to ensure the playoffs slipped away. Forgive him for his charming illogic as he's sensitive just now. |
| Micrówave 09.04.2012 12:29 |
Fricking Stars!!! |
| The Real Wizard 09.04.2012 13:14 |
Micrówave wrote: Right after the "Your Favorite Football Team" thread was started... I started a "Your Favorite NFL Football Team". Guess which one had more response? ON A SITE PRIMARLY FREQUENTED BY NON US FANS!!! If it were such the "Most Popular Sport" as you suggest, pinhead, then why didn't the NFL thread get pushed to page 3 and more than 5 people respond to the Football thread?Now go get your shinebox, Bob. It is a boring sport and no one really cares. Except children.Then it's settled. A few dozen responses in a forum thread about football have clarified that soccer is no longer the world's most popular sport. So are you going to send the memo to 190 countries about their new favourite sport, or shall I? That's what you call science? No wonder teaching evolution has been banned from several states in your country.. |
| Micrówave 09.04.2012 13:17 |
No, those people from the 190 countries you reference can't afford a fax machine... let alone a professional sports team. Amazing how Science displaced your ignorant comments. Keep 'em coming... |
| The Real Wizard 09.04.2012 13:22 |
The xenophobia strikes again. Do you honestly think entire populations of most countries are that uncivilized? Books ... you should read one some time. |
| Micrówave 09.04.2012 13:32 |
Sports. You should watch some some time. Not just dudes jogging. (even if you like that sort of thing) By the way, I didn't know owning a Fax Machine made you "civilized". Keep the ignorant comments coming... you're a GOLD MINE!!! |
| Holly2003 09.04.2012 13:53 |
Faxist comments are very un-PC. |
| The Real Wizard 09.04.2012 14:58 |
Micrówave wrote: By the way, I didn't know owning a Fax Machine made you "civilized".What else did you mean when you made a blanket statement about 190 of the world's countries then? |
| Micrówave 09.04.2012 15:10 |
Micrówave wrote: By the way, I didn't know owning a Fax Machine made you "civilized". The Real Wizard wrote: What else did you mean when you made a blanket statement about 190 of the world's countries then?That they probably weren't waiting around for a memo from me. Jeez... you're such a racist. Did we really need to take it there? Let's not get to deep with the philosophies on this thread, too. Simply... You said most popular, I said that's open to opinion, you said FACT, I presented (quite cleverly) an example where it didn't hold up, you got mad and didn't like it. Let's relax and realize we're both out of the playoffs. |
| Micrówave 09.04.2012 15:13 |
I certainly hope he catches the satire in that last post. |
| Mr.Jingles 12.04.2012 21:13 |
Micrówave wrote: More people buy Cowboys jerseys in South America, more people buy Cowboys jerseys in Europe, more people buy Cowboy jerseys in Africa.Ask any person whose been in South America or Europe. Been in Colombia and Germany, walked around many stores. Tons and tons of soccer jerseys, and not a single NFL shirt, unless you go to a rare specialty store to find one. The only place in the world other than US where people have tons of NFL shirts is Africa. When a Super Bowl team is defeated, that's where they send the "Superbowl Champions" shirts from the loser side. |
| GratefulFan 16.04.2012 14:07 |
A continuation of the violence in hockey stuff: An interesting example of how violence begets more violence in a game my team played in over the weekend, and an additional example of how, perhaps unintuitively, incidental contact to the head is viewed much more seriously, also from the same game. The NHL is in playoffs right now and my team, the Ottawa Sentaors (16th overall), are playing the New York Rangers (1st overall) in the first round in a best of seven. Not all players play the role of fighter or 'enforcer' and it is a role of the enforcers to protect the often more skilled and non (or much less) fighting elite players. They've played two games so far and in the first game a New York Ranger tough guy named Brian Boyle threw some punches at Erik Karlsson, a comparatively slight and highly skilled Ottawa defenceman. In the second game within three minutes of the start an Ottawa enforcer named Matt Carkner literally hunts Boyle down and jumps him in retaliation for what he'd done the last game to send a message that it would not be tolerated. As crazy at that seems, it has it's own logic because the playoffs can be a war of attrition and being hard on the bodies of the other team can provide just enough of an edge to make a difference, so in addition to general principles of brotherhood a team can't allow it's best players to be gratuitously punched around by the opposing team. In comparison to the last brawl I posted this fight actually did result in two game misconducts (ejections from the game). One to Matt Carkner for blatant instigating and an NHL rules required one for a New York Ranger for being "the third man in", or for joining an altercation in progress. The New York Ranger flipped out and in what in some ways was the most egregious action of the whole saga picked up and smashed down a big Gatorade thing when he was leaving the ice, with people right there. I thought he should have been disciplined for that. So in summary in what may seem odd outside the sport attempting to beat the poo out of somebody for reasons that have nothing to do with the play underway is no worse and in fact just as bad as trying to help your buddy who is having the poo beaten out of him, and both will get you thrown from the game. However, if two people agree to mutually attempt to beat the poo out of each other during play, that's mostly OK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94r8eauXqkU However: same game, this earned Carl Hagelin a formal NHL disciplinary hearing and a three game suspension. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE5Nz2efcW8 So not sure if anybody really cares, but thought it an interesting example of the 'code' and where the lines are drawn in violence in NHL hockey, and where they aren't, all in one game. |
| Micrówave 17.04.2012 10:33 |
Yes, and I watched EVERY MINUTE of that game. Disciplined for knocking over a gatorade cooler. I think 4 pieces of ice MIGHT have hit that one kid in the front row... but really? If anything, he took his team's refreshements away. I'm sure they took care of that internally. Anyways, it beats the heck out of watching guys jog around a field for two hours. |
| GratefulFan 17.04.2012 12:31 |
It was a good game, but rough...tense. Last night's game was some of the best hockey I've ever seen, even though we lost 1-0. The kind of game where the pace and effort is almost surreal. Disappointing to lose at home, but really they can't let fans down at this point. We weren't even supposed to be here by anybody's preseason measure, and we took one from the best team in the league at their house and kept them to one goal at ours. CBC is freaking out because there is a very strong likelihood that there will be no Canadian teams in the second round of the playoffs, unless either we or Vancouver pull one out of the hat. About the Gatorade flinging. Whatever one thinks about the occasional fist fight in hockey and the general speed and aggressiveness of the sport, those are known quantities. If you bring your children to a hockey game you know what to expect. I wouldn't expect them to see their heroes behaving totally unprofessionally and flinging stuff around because they're angry. And spectators shouldn't be hit by anything because of a player's fit of pique, particularly little spectators. I can see it not being a big deal to people, but it bothered me. Anyway, go Sens! |
| john bodega 17.04.2012 13:36 |
I hope there's another Falklands conflict, I really do. Gotta love the dagos attitude on this one : "we hate colonialism, so let us make the islands into a colony of our own". They really haven't thought that one through. |
| Micrówave 17.04.2012 14:20 |
And spectators shouldn't be hit by anything because of a player's fit of pique, particularly little spectators. I can see it not being a big deal to people, but it bothered me.Now wait a minute. That's not the sports fault, the player's fault, the arena's fault, etc. That is STRICTLY the parent's fault. They were not forced to get seats that close, they chose to impress their kid with that. You can't put that on the player. You can probably see more action if you sit a bit higher anyways. Remember when I showed you my seats? My 16 year was crushed when the kid in front of us caught a errant puck. She really wanted it. The puck was much harder and faster than an errant ice cube. Even the back of a ticket stub releases an arena from any liability from issues such as those. There's no difference between little Johnny getting hit with an ice cube than him taking a broken bat from a foul ball down the third base line. Comedian Gallagher used to smash Water Melons on stage. If you didn't want to get wet, don't sit so close. |
| GratefulFan 17.04.2012 15:01 |
I get it, but it's not about liability etc. It's about a player taking his professional obligations and his job as a role model seriously. |
| Micrówave 18.04.2012 09:58 |
He did. He could have gone out and gave a lackluster performance, acted disinterested, and hurt his team's chances. Instead, he went out and played Hockey. If you are the fan you claim to be, then you must be aware of the terms "enforcer" or "goon". These are part of the sport. He's not out there to show his dad how to be a better parent or to set an example that you shouldn't bully kids in school or look both ways before crossing. Why do some (particularly women) want "role models"? Do they have role models in the WNBA or Women's Hockey? Since those aren't watched by anyone, I couldn't tell you. But I'd guess that Lisa Leslie laid a few out in her time. |
| GratefulFan 18.04.2012 14:11 |
Brandon Dubinsky is not an enforcer, he's a first or second line forward who led the Rangers in scoring a season or so ago. He's the kind of guy the enforcers protect, and the kind of guy who ends up on a poster in some kid's bedroom. If the culture didn't imbue professional athletes with desirable character traits and the power to influence they wouldn't be paid millions of dollars for endorsements. The most admirable of the skilled and popular players are certainly aware that they are viewed by young fans as heroes and role models, and work hard to be positive, visible presences at the arena and in their communities. It's really not too much to expect some guy making close to 4 million dollars a year to be professional on and off the ice. Professional is not smashing down a drink dispenser three inches from fans because you're mad at a call. |
| Micrówave 18.04.2012 14:38 |
The most admirable of the skilled and popular players are certainly aware that they are viewed by young fans as heroes and role modelsYou know, Charles Barkley took objection to that statement 15 years ago and now he's the most beloved Sportscaster in the NBA right now. Charles point was this. It's not up to the athletes to live as "role models" any time they're in public view... because they're in public ALL THE TIME. Kind of unfair to expect that. I ask you, Grateful Fan, are you acting like a role model ALL THE TIME? Of course not. The "role model" is someone who can explain to that child why or why not that kind of behaviour is acceptable. Human beings make mistakes. But to place unfair expectations on them is absurd. You think Wayne Gretzky ever got mad? Of course he did. There are youtube clips all over the place. But overall, I'd say he made a great "role model"... for someone wanting to become a professional Hockey Player. Anyone attending a sporting event looking for a role model probably needs some better parenting first. It's really not too much to expect some guy making close to 4 million dollars a year to be professional on and off the ice.Oh so how much money can you make without that unfair expectation. Say a guy making the league minimum. Is it ok for him to smash a water cooler then? |
| GratefulFan 18.04.2012 17:15 |
He was in public view, at work. It's not unfair to expect somebody not to toss large, hard objects around at work. I'm imperfect like the rest of the world, but if I flipped over an ice and bottle filled Gatorade cooler adjacent to visitors at my workplace because I was annoyed at my boss, I wouldn't expect a line up of apologists for that behaviour. It's not okay for anybody to smash a water cooler, but to whom much is given much is expected. To a person open to being disappointed by these things, it's simply more disappointing from the elite players. You have a sixteen year old daughter. As such I probably don't have to tell you there are limits to the powers of parenting. I'm in the middle of a rather difficult reckoning with that right now as my seventeen year old son grapples with how to be independent from me. Our kids are shaped by things outside of us their whole lives. Based on what you've said I'd probably go back and change "job as a role model" to "opportunity to be a role model". In the end I simply admire players who take the opportunity and turn it into a responsibility more than I do the Barkleys of pro sports. It's unfair to extrapolate this one incident to some kind of broad statement about Dubinsky's character, but using your words it's certainly fair to call it a mistake. It was dumb. Unprofessional. Ugly. Unnecessary. But hardly worth 8 posts and all these words. So last word to you cooking device. :) |
| GratefulFan 19.04.2012 08:54 |
Ugh. This place sometimes. I noticed the video I had posted had been removed so tried to edit post and lost the whole thing. Not important enough to fully reassemble. Upshot was my team got a nice overtime win last night on a nice goal. |