| TripletKick 01.11.2011 07:24 |
Greetings fellow Queen fans, I'm currently studying comparative literature and medical sciences in Dublin, Ireland. One essay that I am considering writing is about the lyrics of Freddie Mercury. I am particularly interested in the development of his themes from the early fantastical Pan-nymphet references and stylings, to the later more hedonistic and overtly-gay referenced themes of his lyrics. Basically, the essay would look at how Mercury's own personal journey of self-development and identity as a gay man is reflected in his lyrics, and how certain themes and references can be looked at in a larger context of sexual identity in art and literature. Does anyone know of academic papers which have looked at this kind of thing? My searches haven't yet surfaced anything relevant. It's early days yet, but any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Keywords: Queer Theory, Sexuality Studies, the Artist's Life, Masculinity Theory. And before anyone gets in there with something negative or cynical, I'll be the first to admit that Freddie dismissed his work as being made by a "musical prostitute". But that doesn't exclude it from serious analysis. Looking forward to hearing your considered responses. Cheers, TripletKick |
| Micrówave 01.11.2011 11:16 |
But Freddie wasn't gay. It was just an act for the show. |
| CosmosTales 01.11.2011 11:35 |
Reply:But Freddie wasn't gay. It was just an act for the show. Exactly,he was the greatest pretender:) |
| GratefulFan 01.11.2011 11:51 |
There was previously a brief discussion here about an academic analysis of Bohemian Rhapsody that was from a larger work called 'Queering the Popular Pitch', which a quick search tells me can be found on Amazon if not through some other source at your school. The discussion thread is here: link |
| GratefulFan 01.11.2011 11:53 |
Looks like you'll have to copy and paste the above link. It's failing as posted and apparently we can't edit. Again. |
| mooghead 01.11.2011 12:43 |
Why so much emphasis on his sexuality all the time?? |
| matt z 01.11.2011 17:56 |
mooghead wrote: Why so much emphasis on his sexuality all the time?? Because many instructors are "exullaysay epressedray" themselves... and it gets their jollies going. Others for sensationalism, .... Others so they can steal your concepts and expound on em. I'll give my two cents.... but please credit this submission to Matt Zarella (as in CHEESE) The Fairy Feller's Masterstroke: just a stretch from the original joke. Along the lines of Fairies Wear Boots from Black Sabbath. Social outcasts (often times in different generations) mingled together... hence the references to queers and midgets. (that's the sabbath reference backing this up) "the fairy folk have gathered round the new moonshine, to see the the feller crack a nut At night's noon time To swing his axe he swears As he climbs he dares To deliver the master stroke Ploughman wagoner will' and types (all sorts of workers) Politician with senatorial pipe (even the rich political slob) He's a dilly dally oh Pedagogue squinting wears a frown (squinting eyes.... "corn holing?") And a satyr peers under lady's gown He's a dirty fellow What a dirty laddie-oh" etc.. The queer folk have gathered round someone's "bottom" to see another "bust a nut" i don't have to go any further do i?... Master Strokes? Just wouldn't want to... I'll piss people off. Just look for em, OR consider that they're ALL literal... and the subject of the painting AND the song was purely humorously relative....and not intentional. I'm just saying... it sounds like a very hedonistic place....for sure it goes back to Greece and Rome... super gay. i'm not knocking or queer bashing... that's just what the song seems to be. |
| queenUSA 01.11.2011 18:14 |
Exactly - Mooghead. Play to the salacious everytime and exploit. You have struck a nerveTK and I, for one, don't agree with what you will be attempting. Also, what kind of an academic can't find what GFF just handed you above? It's been discussed and picked apart many times here on QZ (that particularly persons study) as well as others. It's not very original these days to go after BoRap (as has been done over and over and over again) trying to find the "coming out" song and gay lyrics (whatever that means). If you are a fan of Queen - why do this? Queen are 3 additional people - not just Freddie. So be sure to write about the counterbalance of being in a band with 3 straight people - because I don't think they've been informed that their musical arrangements have a particular sexuality - although you will soon enough read about the Sheila's "ground breaking" theory of phallic drums (still love that one!). You have tried yourself to dismiss what you're doing by using Freddie's words. Who's the prostitute now? |
| TripletKick 01.11.2011 19:18 |
Thanks all for your comments, particularly GratefulFan's link. To clarify, this is merely a preliminary query. Nothing is planned and the idea may be impractical or even irrelevant. Remember, I am a mere postgrad drone with no original thought. This is also my first thread. I may not be familiar with your social customs in this thing you call "QueenZone". I did not know it is custom to mostly disparage any thread which may possibly tweak the hairs on your Outraged buttons. I see Piggyback Assassination and open ridicule is on the language menu in this Zone. Forgive me brothers! Sisters! Screaming Queens! I am merely sniffing around the damp crevices of desperate academic topics, willing to write Yet Another Paper Without Any Connection To Reality Or Anything Of Interest To Anyone Really. I am probably a mad fool and you should take no notice of me. I am a mere worm etc etc bow grovel don't shoot please I'm just the piano techie... It's clear to me now that my clearly outrageous and undoubtedly insane speculative paper on Mercury would eventually become the finest toilet roll Known To Man. Or maybe not even reach that hallowed status, as recognised by the Institute of Inspired Bolloxology here in Dublin City Wanky Academic Cunts. It may even inspire someone to cry: "Sheeeee-it maaaan! I ain't even wiping my ass with that no-good bullshit wanky lah-di-fucking-dah comparative literature piece of trash about Freddie!" I stand chastened and humble in the vast encompassing wisdom and swift judgement that is QueenZone, and bid your compassion - for I know kindness doth exist in all your hearts - to allow me safe passage to exit these vengeful lands. Mercy! I beg! MERCY! Adieu! |
| Holly2003 02.11.2011 05:29 |
queenUSA wrote: Exactly - Mooghead. Play to the salacious everytime and exploit. You have struck a nerveTK and I, for one, don't agree with what you will be attempting. Also, what kind of an academic can't find what GFF just handed you above? It's been discussed and picked apart many times here on QZ (that particularly persons study) as well as others. It's not very original these days to go after BoRap (as has been done over and over and over again) trying to find the "coming out" song and gay lyrics (whatever that means). If you are a fan of Queen - why do this? Queen are 3 additional people - not just Freddie. So be sure to write about the counterbalance of being in a band with 3 straight people - because I don't think they've been informed that their musical arrangements have a particular sexuality - although you will soon enough read about the Sheila's "ground breaking" theory of phallic drums (still love that one!). You have tried yourself to dismiss what you're doing by using Freddie's words. Who's the prostitute now? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your arguments might carry more authority if you could string even one sentence together that made any sense. Have you considered the possibility that your bizarre opposition to any interpretation of Queen lyrics/music that goes beyond the purely literal might derive from you being a bit thick? |
| Gregoryvincke 02.11.2011 10:42 |
Hi, I'm a Belgian student in literature and linguistics from Geneva University. Your thesis seems to be a very interesting topic. This is my email-address : gregoryvincke@gmail.com. Contact me, I might be able to send you some interesting thoughts or info on the matter. Cheers |
| Micrówave 02.11.2011 15:03 |
I think this "paper" is just a cover story. |
| TripletKick 02.11.2011 15:31 |
@Gregory - thanks I'll PM you. @Microwave - I see you're familiar with our work at the Insititute of Inspired Bolloxology's sub-department of Scientific Trolling And Non-finite Teratology (STINK). As it suggests, it tends to leave an awful stench. Luckily it can be defused by a quick sense of humour, and the cognition that one's beliefs or thoughts have no direct bearing on reality, nor anyone else, whether typed, spoken or farted. :) |
| CosmosTales 02.11.2011 17:35 |
Reply....to the later more hedonistic and overtly-gay referenced themes of his lyrics. Basically, the essay would look at how Mercury's own personal journey of self-development and identity as a gay man is reflected in his lyrics, and how certain themes and references can be looked at in a larger context of sexual identity in art and literature. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Well i'm just curious...Could you give us examples of what you mean in the following sentences: -Mercury's own personal journey of self-development and identity as a gay man is reflected in his lyrics?? -how certain themes and references can be looked at in a larger context of sexual identity in art and literature?? Enlighten us please |
| matt z 02.11.2011 19:44 |
CosmosTales wrote: Reply....to the later more hedonistic and overtly-gay referenced themes of his lyrics. Basically, the essay would look at how Mercury's own personal journey of self-development and identity as a gay man is reflected in his lyrics, and how certain themes and references can be looked at in a larger context of sexual identity in art and literature. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Well i'm just curious...Could you give us examples of what you mean in the following sentences: -Mercury's own personal journey of self-development and identity as a gay man is reflected in his lyrics?? -how certain themes and references can be looked at in a larger context of sexual identity in art and literature?? Enlighten us please I dunno bout the first part... maybe it's how long it took a guy to get a boner? But part two sounds like this: Basically its probably an ART class... where they're asking students to select an artist and his/her identity and relate that to ideologies (compare/contrast) and eras... And use terms and references relative to symbology inherent in classic art. Ex) Phoenix --- rising from death etc. and "sexual identity in art and literature?" dunno if there's much to be said... He donned the NY Gay bar stache... that's more like fashion though. Sounds like someone wants us to do his homework ;) DO UR OWN WORK! No offense to anyone here... Nature vs Nurture argument...but a starting point may have been the ALL BOYS school... was it not?.... i forget. anyways... where's a troll when u need one?... I haven't got my trolling license yet. |
| queenUSA 02.11.2011 21:39 |
Holly2003 wrote:queenUSA wrote: Exactly - Mooghead. Play to the salacious everytime and exploit.You have struck a nerveTK and I, for one, don't agree with what you will be attempting. Also, what kind of an academic can't find what GFF just handed you above? It's been discussed and picked apart many times here on QZ (that particularly persons study) as well as others. It's not very original these days to go after BoRap (as has been done over and over and over again) trying to find the "coming out" song and gay lyrics (whatever that means). If you are a fan of Queen - why do this? Queen are 3 additional people - not just Freddie. So be sure to write about the counterbalance of being in a band with 3 straight people - because I don't think they've been informed that their musical arrangements have a particular sexuality - although you will soon enough read about the Sheila's "ground breaking" theory of phallic drums (still love that one!). You have tried yourself to dismiss what you're doing by using Freddie's words. Who's the prostitute now? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your arguments might carry more authority if you could string even one sentence together that made any sense. Have you considered the possibility that your bizarre opposition to any interpretation of Queen lyrics/music that goes beyond the purely literal might derive from you being a bit thick? First off - take ego out of it completely. I'm not trying to be an '"authority" - and never claimed to. The topic starter is the professor - not I. And if you think I'm being a bit thick - let me clear it up for you .... BUG OFF Holly! It's my opinion and I'm free to express it. |
| queenUSA 02.11.2011 22:00 |
^ ^ Hey, wait a minute .... it's all coming back to me now. Perhaps this touched a nerve with you Holly because you're the one who originally posted Sheila Whiteley's steaming pile of s___ earlier this year - the infamous "BoRap Queer Analysis" Paper. What a load of crap that piece was. As I said - beware the false professor. |
| Holly2003 03.11.2011 03:01 |
queenUSA wrote: ^ ^ Hey, wait a minute .... it's all coming back to me now. Perhaps this touched a nerve with you Holly because you're the one who originally posted Sheila Whiteley's steaming pile of s___ earlier this year - the infamous "BoRap Queer Analysis" Paper. What a load of crap that piece was. As I said - beware the false professor. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You seem to have a huge emotional investment in Bo Rap not being about Fred's sexuality. I wonder why that is ... |
| Holly2003 03.11.2011 03:15 |
queenUSA wrote: Holly2003 wrote:
queenUSA wrote: Exactly - Mooghead. Play to the salacious everytime and exploit.
You have struck a nerveTK and I, for one, don't agree with what you will be attempting.
Also, what kind of an academic can't find what GFF just handed you above? It's been discussed and picked apart many times here on QZ (that particularly persons study) as well as others. It's not very original these days to go after BoRap (as has been done over and over and over again) trying to find the "coming out" song and gay lyrics (whatever that means). If you are a fan of Queen - why do this? Queen are 3 additional people - not just Freddie. So be sure to write about the counterbalance of being in a band with 3 straight people - because I don't think they've been informed that their musical arrangements have a particular sexuality - although you will soon enough read about the Sheila's "ground breaking" theory of phallic drums (still love that one!).
You have tried yourself to dismiss what you're doing by using Freddie's words. Who's the prostitute now?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your arguments might carry more authority if you could string even one sentence together that made any sense. Have you considered the possibility that your bizarre opposition to any interpretation of Queen lyrics/music that goes beyond the purely literal might derive from you being a bit thick? First off - take ego out of it completely. I'm not trying to be an '"authority" - and never claimed to. The topic starter is the professor - not I. And if you think I'm being a bit thick - let me clear it up for you .... BUG OFF Holly! It's my opinion and I'm free to express it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have offered an opinion -- any dimwit can do that -- but you haven't engaged with what's been said, either by myself or anyone else or the author of the article I posted in that other thread. Why then do you have such an emotional attachment to Queen lyrics meaning nothing beyond the purely literal? Is that so beyond teh realms of possibilty? Clearly not. |
| queenUSA 03.11.2011 06:44 |
You put up that academic rag of a paper back in April and seem to have NO capacity for critical thinking yourself. See it for what it is. Why have you no investment in BO RAP? It's only one of their greatest tunes. If you think these studies do no damage - then you are naive. On itunes and elsewhere on the net the biography of Queen that is put out for the public now states that We Are The Champions is a Gay anthem. Really? How did that happen? Likely from some other rag writer! There's so many. But why should you care about any damage on your car's windshield? Isn't that the funny things you like to write about? That action sums you up. So pardon me - If I swerve past your messy crime scene. |
| Donna13 03.11.2011 12:36 |
I don't think lyrics can ever really be separated from the music for analysis of content for the purpose of finding meaning when the person writing the music is also writing the lyrics. It might be different with a person who only writes lyrics such as is the case (I think ... not sure) with Bernie Taulpin (don't know the spelling of his name). From what I remember reading, he would write the lyrics then mail them to Elton John and Elton would make up the music to fit the lyrics. But in the case of a musical genius such as Freddie, I think the music is coming out of the imagination first and then certain words ... even if nonsensical would be chosen just to fit the tempo, feel or mood of the music. Or did he hear the music and lyric at the same time in his mind? There is a video of Queen working on a lyric to a song with Freddie insisting they add or take away a syllable to make it fit the beat of the music. But I think it was a Roger Taylor song they were working on. I'm not saying there is no meaning in Freddie's lyrics because there does seem to be very deep and personal meaning in some songs ... especially in songs such as Jealousy or Love of My Life. But with a song you can get just as much, and maybe much more, meaning from what is going on with the music, i.e. the music does the talking. You have to be very clever and sensitive to do this type of writing and I think it is a pretty rare skill and takes someone who really understands and "gets" music. If writing about music and not just lyrics is interesting to you, then I think it is a fitting subject/topic for you to work on. But if you are only going to research the lyrics I would say that you might want to broaden your topic to lyrics of a variety of artists ... or possibly write about someone who only writes lyrics. Hope this is helpful. My other tip is to find out what your instructor finds interesting and write about that instead (you know ...). |
| GratefulFan 03.11.2011 13:07 |
Oh my QueenUSA. I'm not even sure where to begin. Bad artist bios and bad academic writing surely exist, as does bad tuna casserole, but I've never seem anybody bay at the moon over the fundamentally perverse folly of fish and macaroni. Usually it's more along the lines of 'needs more salt' or in my house 'really did you have to put in an *entire* can of peas?'. Haranguing the original poster for a work that can't be possibly be assessed for value to any discourse because it doesn't even bloody exist yet, and Holly for posting something novel and relevant and substantial regardless of any individual's reception to the ideas therein seems well and truly irrational. The more immediately relevant 'damage' I see is the successive driving away of new posters who arrive at Queenzone with a considered post on some version of this topic only to be bizarrely pooed upon. These are people who are more likely than most to be intelligent and curious and generally an asset to the place. It's an absolute shame. The notion that art and artists shouldn't be considered and analyzed through any number of personal or cultural themes is absurd. As always I think people doth protest waaaaay too much about Freddie and homosexuality. A complete and utter projection of some kind of discomfort in your own head. To me it's just a thing like any other thing fundamental to a person's experience that only the seriously blinkered would not expect it to show up or leak out now and again in an artist's creative output. Brian talked about coming to a gradual awareness somewhere beginning around Jazz that Freddie was attracted to men, and he spoke about trying from there on to write lyrics for Freddie that did not box him in to heterosexual expressions of love and sex . If Fred's bandmate and friend can acknowledge that sometimes music does indeed have a sexuality maybe you can give managing that without apoplexy a whirl as well. |
| queenUSA 03.11.2011 18:12 |
Oh dear nothing. There is no need for you to wring your hands. I will agree there has been a trend of people coming here with this same topic and being set upon. They will be okay - this is not a nursery. They can stand up for their ideas (or not) and they will have to do so in their classroom as well. It's called life. That bio on Itunes seriously bothers me and it should bother you too. Someone needs to take responsibility for that. To the topic starter: I hope you can see what a polarizing topic this can be. Different people from different countries will disagree and have different mindsets and values. Write your paper and I'm sure some zombies out there will love to devour it and feed off it. It's the News of the World album cover art come to life. (oh dear!) |
| TripletKick 03.11.2011 19:48 |
Thanks for your considerate comments Donna13 & GratefulFan. Sadly, QueenZone is possibly the most angry, petulant and venomous forum I've ever witnessed in 15 years online, both professionally and personally. Moderators please take note. Sincerely, TK |
| Micrówave 04.11.2011 11:33 |
Hold on, Triplekick. You're the one coming on here, a family website, and want to discuss "sexual identity in art and literature". Perhaps this is not the place for that and you're simply not taking the hint. We're not a bunch of artsy-fartsies like you appear to be. So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney, play a nice round of Croquet, and go post on Corey Hart's website instead. Have a great day. |
| Holly2003 04.11.2011 13:12 |
queenUSA wrote: You put up that academic rag of a paper back in April and seem to have NO capacity for critical thinking yourself. See it for what it is.
Why have you no investment in BO RAP? It's only one of their greatest tunes. If you think these studies do no damage - then you are naive. On itunes and elsewhere on the net the biography of Queen that is put out for the public now states that We Are The Champions is a Gay anthem. Really? How did that happen? Likely from some other rag writer! There's so many. But why should you care about any damage on your car's windshield? Isn't that the funny things you like to write about? That action sums you up. So pardon me - If I swerve past your messy crime scene. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not entirely sure what investment I have in Bo Rap except to enoy it. I'm certainly not frightened away by the possibility it may have some references to Fred's personal life. I don't give a flying fuck about Itunes however or about what someone on there thinks about WATC. I don't have a car. I haven't committed a crime. Unless those were metaphors or allusions .... hmmmm... imagine that, someone using language that on the surface means one thing but underneath means another. Clearly that skill, mastered by anyone who understands even the basics of language, was beyond Fred ... |
| TripletKick 04.11.2011 14:30 |
Micrówave wrote: Hold on, Triplekick. You're the one coming on here, a family website, and want to discuss "sexual identity in art and literature". Perhaps this is not the place for that and you're simply not taking the hint. We're not a bunch of artsy-fartsies like you appear to be. So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney, play a nice round of Croquet, and go post on Corey Hart's website instead. Have a great day. There is a disturbing thread of anti-intellectualism going here, in what is ostensibly entitled "Serious Discussion". WTF is going on? Have I stepped out of some intellectual closet here? Have the morons taken over completely? All I did was ask a question, only to see it warped and twisted into something truly ugly and horrible. I never even mentioned Bo Rap! The message seems to be: Don't Ask Questions. Remind you of a book by George Orwell? Chile? Cambodia? Soviet Union? So, in addition to "angry, petulant and venomous", we can now add "fascist" to the characteristics of some members in this truly bizarre forum. 1. Microwave, I can't find any reference to a "family website" on QueenZone. Is this a reference to "family values" that certain sections of society use to repress any other view or lifestyle that they don't happen to agree with? Look at history: your logic leads to tyranny & fascism. If you can't grasp that concept, then read no further. 2. If this is indeed a "family website" then whose family are you talking about? Yours? Mine? The Manson Family? Josef Fritzl's Family? Fascists are very good at having peculiar ideas about what "family" is or isn't. Ein volk, ein kinder - get the picture, fascist? 3. "This is not the place for you" - and whom might you be to judge this? What a mean-spirited, intolerant, thinly-veiled message of hate - not unlike, guess what? FASCISTS! 4. "Artsy-farties" - Now this is classic uninformed arrogant thinking, just like a real fascist. Microwave, what you think Freddie Mercury studied? ART! He was a Chardonnay-sipping artsy-fartsy queer, you know? So now, by your own argument, you now exclude Freddie Mercury from your intolerant world view. And also this very website! Nice one, fascist. Would you put Freddie and all those wine-sipping art students onto the train to Auschwitz? You'd better add most of the members of Pink Floyd to that train too, you hateful ignorant fascist. And also Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton... need I go on, you hate-mongerer? What's tragic is that some people seem to forget that there are many countries in the world RIGHT NOW where homosexuals and intellectuals are MURDERED. For either asking questions or being artsy-fartsy queers. 5. Your world-view smacks of "us and them" thinking. Which kinda goes against nearly everything Freddie & the lads wrote about, which was Love. Yes, LOVE! Not hate. Listen to Skrewdriver for that kinda thing. When Queen sang of "one solution" in One Vision, please know they weren't thinking of the Final Solution, which is where your logic leads, you fascist. 6. It would appear that fascism is close to the hearts of a fair few people here. How has this happened? If this is you, then remember: in a world under the ideology you consciously or unconsciously follow, THERE WOULD NEVER BE A BAND LIKE QUEEN. As a degenerate faggot pervert under your New World Order, Freddie would've been murdered long before he got a chance to don sequins and mascara, let alone near a stage or studio. Is this the world we've created? Is this the world YOU want? The irony here would be humorous if it wasn't so utterly pathetic. The internet brings out the worst side of humanity, really. So easy to type without really thinking, being led by one's emotions not reason. I'd say that some of you have a childish mentality, but I'd like to give children more credit than that. After all, we are born to love and we can only be taught to hate. Who taught you? Good luck to those who have to put up with the fascist morons. I admire your tenacity. No doubt the morons will continue to self-righteously and arrogantly mock what I've written, parse it to hell, twist it around, and always, ALWAYS FILL THEIR NEED TO HAVE THE LAST WORD. Just. Like. Fascists. I am so out of this forum. I can hear the fascists clapping in a warped notion that they've "won". A sociologist or therapist would have a field day here. TK x mwah x |
| 4 x Vision 04.11.2011 15:08 |
Some of you need to get a grip. The guy focuses on Mercury's homosexuality... OMG, how dare he?... this could have made for quite an interesting debate too. To the OP, some lyrics to look further into... early ; Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy, Killer Queen later ; Get Down Make Love, Body Language |
| GratefulFan 04.11.2011 16:15 |
Micrówave wrote: Hold on, Triplekick. You're the one coming on here, a family website, and want to discuss "sexual identity in art and literature". Perhaps this is not the place for that and you're simply not taking the hint. We're not a bunch of artsy-fartsies like you appear to be. So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney, play a nice round of Croquet, and go post on Corey Hart's website instead. Have a great day. Well as hazings go, I'd say that was wildly successful. LOL Maybe TK will stick around long enough for us to rag him/her someday about that time Microwave called Queen 'a family website' with a straight face and managed 'Corey Hart' and 'Croquet' in the same sentence, thereby prompting a 48 paragraph rant about fascism. You often make me laugh, but this was subtle and classic. |
| GratefulFan 04.11.2011 16:26 |
TripletKick wrote: Sadly, QueenZone is possibly the most angry, petulant and venomous forum I've ever witnessed in 15 years online, both professionally and personally. Moderators please take note. There are no moderators effectively. Honestly, it's great. But it's not for everyone. And I can certainly see why you've drawn the impression you have, but it's not accurate. Well not entirely accurate. :) |
| TripletKick 05.11.2011 09:18 |
Have I just been "played"? Oh bugger. What a twat I can be. Damn my sincerity. |
| tcc 05.11.2011 10:03 |
Micrówave wrote: ........So go pour yourself another glass of Chardonney..... It should be Moet et Chandon from a pretty cabinet :-) |
| CosmosTales 06.11.2011 00:11 |
Reply: There is a video of Queen working on a lyric to a song with Freddie insisting they add or take away a syllable to make it fit the beat of the music. But I think it was a Roger Taylor song they were working on... _______________________________________________________________________________________ Exactly Donna i was thinking in that scene too. It is from the making of "One Vision", i think this is a very good example how great part of Queen songs had the involvement of the four, even if it was very small.. I think relating the lyrics of certain songs with the sexuality of Freddie is very limited.. In my opinion in a qroup like Queen there is so much more things involved in the construction of the songs that the reflection of the sexual orientation of one men in the lyrics. It is definitely not only one man job, Donna gave a very good example of this in her post. In a band like this and like the video of One vison showed a single word could be easily misinterpreted by the general public. I can even doubt when earing a song if that word has a meaning for the Band or it was just put there to fit in the melody. _______________________________________________________________________________________________ Reply: Sadly, QueenZone is possibly the most angry, petulant and venomous forum I've ever witnessed in 15 years online, both professionally and personally. Moderators please take note ________________________________________________________________________________________________ We are not angry or petulant or even venomus...In your first post you suposed a lot of things it was obvious that you would get some bad feedback in this issue. I think most of the negative comments were because your assumptions about the relation between lyrics and sexuality, as I remember Freddie never spoke of this matter and because of this there are several opinions and interpretation of each one of us. I thinhk we still would like to ear your justifications about the suppositions in your first post... By the way Professionaly?, really? I thing you and your studies are taking this too seriously This is just entertainment, even science can not justifie some people and their acts how could your studies and you justifie "the personal journey of self-development and identity of on man" like Freddie .... |
| TripletKick 06.11.2011 05:59 |
I don't which is worse: The many bizarre assumptions that have been made about my original questions - which were merely questions I might add. I was asking about other academic research, not wishing to go into a long debate (ooh the irony of me writing this!) about something that hasn't even been researched yet. Note the use of the word "preliminary" in my OP. Or all this "we" business that "you" keep referring to. As if "you all" are some kind of Borg Queen entity, a Hive Mind, who all think the same and pounce on anything that seems to irk you. Rather than a polite "sorry mate I don't know" all that seems to be written is: "YOU JUSTIFY YOUR THREAD OR DIE MUTHAFUKKA!" Eek! Excuse me, I'll just go sacrifce myself to the Kurgan or Ming. How can I possibly answer when I don't know the answer! Or barely researched the bloody thing. I got two or three constructive replies (thank you!); the rest were attacks, mockings and insults. I mean, why bother indeed! Again, there's a weird anti-intellectualism going on here which is wrapped up in a convenient "oh it's just a joke" ha ha ha. And again, all in the "serious discussion" thread, where I mistakenly thought one might get a "serious" answer, not frivolity. Silly me. Maybe I should have shouted out the question to Freddie at Slane Castle in '86 and not have bothered here in the first place. |
| GratefulFan 06.11.2011 06:42 |
TripletKick wrote: Have I just been "played"? Oh bugger. What a twat I can be. Damn my sincerity. Well, you've been Microwaved, which is worse than 'played' because you won't even get a metaphorical 'Ha ha' with a clap on the back and a belated welcome to the forum at the end of it. But don't feel too bad. He recently convinced inu-liger that Zebonka was dead in the 'Zebonka Thread' in the Personal section in way less words. Somewhat hilariously I found a clearly fascist version of 'Sunglasses at Night'. Well, all Corey Hart videos are kind of hilarious, but you know what I mean. |
| tcc 06.11.2011 08:20 |
I think people try to read into the homosexual aspect of the lyrics only from hindsight upon knowing his homosexuality. If you don't know, you will accept the songs as written for the opposite sex as we would normally expect. When I read Shakespeare's sonnet "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day", I assumed that it was wrritten for a lady. It was only many many years after I left school that I came to know that it was written for a man. |
| GratefulFan 06.11.2011 11:35 |
I forgot to post this earlier: link It's a PDF version of a book by music scholar Judith Peraino called 'Listening to the Sirens - Musical Technologies of Queer Identity from Homer to Hedwig'. There is (another) analysis of Bohemian Rhapsody beginning on page 230 as numbered in the text. I highly recommend QueenUSA not read it because I honestly think it might kill him. LOL This time the guns are phallic. What is it with academic chicks? LOL Like the Whitely essay there are some interesting things, some dubious, and this time a flat out inaccuracy or two. Still appreciated the read. If nothing else this exercise has demonstrated that there is a need for some academic to consider a Queen song other than Bohemian Rhapsody. Jeez. |
| GratefulFan 06.11.2011 11:50 |
tcc wrote: I think people try to read into the homosexual aspect of the lyrics only from hindsight upon knowing his homosexuality. If you don't know, you will accept the songs as written for the opposite sex as we would normally expect. When I read Shakespeare's sonnet "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day", I assumed that it was wrritten for a lady. It was only many many years after I left school that I came to know that it was written for a man. That's true, but it says nothing about what's was there to be seen, only what made it through the filters of the experience and expectations of the heterosexual majority. Much of it would be unconscious anyway. One gets the impression Fred intended for example to make 'Get Down Make Love' universally applicable, but it's almost unreachably homoerotic to me. |
| queenUSA 06.11.2011 12:37 |
GratefulFan wrote: I forgot to post this earlier: http://bib.tiera.ru/dvd46/Peraino%20J.A.%20-%20Listening%20to%20the%20Sirens.%20Musical%20Technologies%20of%20Queer%20Identity%20from%20Homer%20to%20Hedwig(2006)(369).pdf It's a PDF version of a book by music scholar Judith Peraino called 'Listening to the Sirens - Musical Technologies of Queer Identity from Homer to Hedwig'. There is (another) analysis of Bohemian Rhapsody beginning on page 230 as numbered in the text. I highly recommend QueenUSA not read it because I honestly think it might kill him. LOL This time the guns are phallic. What is it with academic chicks? LOL Like the Whitely essay there are some interesting things, some dubious, and this time a flat out inaccuracy or two. Still appreciated the read. If nothing else this exercise has demonstrated that there is a need for some academic to consider a Queen song other than Bohemian Rhapsody. Jeez. ==================== Jeez indeed. And why not pimp out BoRap again and again - it's like the village bicycle by now, everyone's had a ride. And considering you found errors off the bat ... what further embarrassing company is this ... an American author this time 'round. One review of the book began "A fresh and innovative study ..... " As Shakespeare penned (and presumably tried to educate) in Henry VIII, "Woe upon ye, and all such false professors." His words, not mine. Jeez indeed. |
| GratefulFan 06.11.2011 12:41 |
Donna13 wrote: I don't think lyrics can ever really be separated from the music for analysis of content for the purpose of finding meaning when the person writing the music is also writing the lyrics. It might be different with a person who only writes lyrics such as is the case (I think ... not sure) with Bernie Taulpin (don't know the spelling of his name). From what I remember reading, he would write the lyrics then mail them to Elton John and Elton would make up the music to fit the lyrics. But in the case of a musical genius such as Freddie, I think the music is coming out of the imagination first and then certain words ... even if nonsensical would be chosen just to fit the tempo, feel or mood of the music. Or did he hear the music and lyric at the same time in his mind? There is a video of Queen working on a lyric to a song with Freddie insisting they add or take away a syllable to make it fit the beat of the music. But I think it was a Roger Taylor song they were working on. I'm not saying there is no meaning in Freddie's lyrics because there does seem to be very deep and personal meaning in some songs ... especially in songs such as Jealousy or Love of My Life. But with a song you can get just as much, and maybe much more, meaning from what is going on with the music, i.e. the music does the talking. You have to be very clever and sensitive to do this type of writing and I think it is a pretty rare skill and takes someone who really understands and "gets" music. If writing about music and not just lyrics is interesting to you, then I think it is a fitting subject/topic for you to work on. But if you are only going to research the lyrics I would say that you might want to broaden your topic to lyrics of a variety of artists ... or possibly write about someone who only writes lyrics. Hope this is helpful. My other tip is to find out what your instructor finds interesting and write about that instead (you know ...). A natural extension of your points is the fact that of the four Freddie was probably the one most often dismissive of his own lyrics and of any depth and significance they might have. He talked about not liking the exercise, declaiming that 'he wasn't a poet' and famously saying of course that his songs were disposable. I've heard something very similar from the brilliant Billy Joel who like Fred wrote classic, enduring and often beautiful and moving lyrics. He said the only reason he wrote lyrics for his music was because the public and the genre expected it. They both thought of themselves as composers first and reluctant lyricists second, and both were far less comfortable accepting acclaim and praise for the words they wrote. I so get that. I am a computer programmer - my equivalent of 'the music'. I have come to specialize in programs that run on a web platform so as an extension of my job I also have to be a web designer - 'the words'. I hate that part. I hate doing it, I hate talking about it, and mostly I hate getting complimented for it. I'm not an artist. All I can see are the imperfections. I just last week completed a six month project and launched four new major websites for the organization I work for. The compliments and congratulations flowed all week, people sent me little gifts in the interoffice mail and the head of the organization made a special trip to my office to tell me how impressed she was, how 'incredible' they all looked and that I was 'very talented' and that they were going to be making further development in this vein an 'organizational strategic priority'. Sounds like a great week at work, right? Not. I hated it. I felt nothing but anxiety all week and can't wait for people to stop talking about them. I actually cried for like 15 minutes one night because I thought one of them was 'too green'. I mean, it's a bit insane, and I realize that intellectually, but emotionally it's difficult to work just outside the place where you do have absolute confidence - the music - and feel defined by unavoidable things more immediately on the surface. All this talking about 'me me me' (ha ha) to say that just because the lyrics process seems mechanical at times, and diminished in importance by Fred himself, it doesn't mean that his own inner world wasn't all over those words a good deal of the time. It's unavoidable I think. Just because one might have to work within constraints - screen resolution and browser limitations and user expectations for me, or meter and and rhyme and song structure for Fred - doesn't mean you can avoid sourcing heavily from within. I'm still organizing flows of information that reflect the way my own mind works, I'm still choosing photographs for use on my sites that reflect what speaks to me emotionally and I'm still incorporating and developing designs that are the reflection of the technical aesthetic that is one of beauty and balance in my own eye. I'd bet heavily that the same goes for singers and their songs. |
| CosmosTales 06.11.2011 12:50 |
Reply: "YOU JUSTIFY YOUR THREAD OR DIE MUTHAFUKKA!" __________________________________________________________________________________________ Well nobody here said that! Once again you are taking your own conclusions. The only thing i said was that we would like to hear your opinion about the supositions that you made in your first post.. I'm starting to thing that you are avoiding answering this question, maybe because you dont have your own opinion or something else... GF: About the video of Sunglasses at Night': What a awful taste.... |
| Dane 06.11.2011 13:48 |
"Oh shit! All this crap again?!" |
| Donna13 06.11.2011 18:50 |
I think every little detail about Freddie was something to take in. So it wouldn't be just his musical abilities that would be appreciated but the entire person. His lyrics were so good. One of my favorites is "It's so easy .. but I can't do it. So risky ... but I gotta chance it. So funny ... there's nothing to laugh about. My money - that's all you want to talk about." You might get a certain understanding of what is being said here if you were to just read the words before hearing the song for the first time. But then you hear the music and the performance and all these other impressions hit you. I guess that is why the music in a movie can be so important. |
| Veyeynae 23.01.2020 20:04 |
A lot of scientific research on the life of Freddy Mercuri. A lot of facts that refute and confirm it. It's hard to talk about one thing. Especially when you're still in college at the same time. I do not know how to cope with the study, if not for the site https://paperell.com/essay-help through which students can help writing report, essay and other materials necessary for the study. Soon I will be freer, climbing the Internet and studying Freddy Mercury's biography in an accelerated format. As long as life goes this way with the help of secrets secrets , I am happy that everything is positive and joyful. |
| OliverPhillips 30.01.2020 12:25 |
Unbelievable amount of information related to the study of Freddie Mercury's life. There are factors that contradict each other. It's hard to talk about anything in particular. Especially when you're in college and you can't devote your time to it. I try to solve my study problems with the website https://paperell.com/do-my-essay where someone can do my essay homework. I hope that soon I will be able to free myself and fully devote my time to studying Freddy Mercury's autobiography. For now, life goes this way, but I want to develop not only in terms of study. |
| dudeofqueen 30.01.2020 15:32 |
Wasn't Fred sexually fluid? Rotating between identifying as a lemur, a bottle of vodka or a pair of Brian's knickers, dependent upon how many consonants were in theat particular day of the week. |