| youngballantyne 02.10.2011 06:27 |
I was reading somewhere on QZ,,, someone asking about when Freddie knew he had HIV... I can tell you that back in the 1980's,a lot less was known about HIV than we know about today. Back then,you didn't get 1 test and that was it, you had AIDS. Doctors weren't sure. It usually took multiple tests for a doctor to tell you most certainly that you had the HIV virus in your blood. Up until 1985, tests hadn't been widely available to test for the virus. Up until then, people generally didn't know they had the virus until they were becoming ill and showing serious opportunistic infections. Doctors generally made an AIDS diagnosis based on the patients helper T-Cell level – or lack of them. So it was hard for a doctor to tell someone who wasn't sick that they had HIV virus – the first tests just weren't that accurate. We will never know exactly when Freddie Mercury first discovered or even suspected something was up with his health. Fortunately, some of us have friends who know things about people, and some of those people's medical records can be accessed years later...So I will tell you a little story ;) Did Freddie know he had HIV 1984? Most probably not... In 1984 there was a test in the primary stages of deployment called the ELISA test & it was being developed to screen out HIV from the blood supply. It was highly sensitive, and very nonspecific, which means it gave a positive result easily even when, in some cases, there is actually no HIV present. It is very unlikely the Freddie's GP would have a offered up his blood to the testing labs in Paris. So, based on the fact that Freddie was still healthy and hadn't changed any of his behaviour by 1984, I don't think he had any real inkling that he was infected. 1985 - Looking at the events - this was the year alarm bells started to ring for Freddie. Firstly, this was the year that the ELISA test had become more accessible and available for doctors in the UK (and the rest of Western Europe) to test their patients for the possibility of HIV turning up in their blood. Freddie was still healthy at this time, or at least he was not showing serious opportunistic infections. But he may very well have had some of the tell-tail signs of HIV infection that doctors in the mid-80's began to recognize as precursors for a person who had the virus, but who had not yet developed full blown AIDS. Some of these initial symptoms are swollen lymphnodes throughout the body, night sweats, and a mild to moderate general malaise. Freddie may have mentioned something to his doctor at one of his checkups - or his doctor may have had his blood tested for HIV along with other possible diseases that were routine for sexually active gay men. If an ELISA HIV test would have come back positive in 1985, Freddie's doctor would have told him, but would also have told him of the high possibility of a 'false positive' result - and would have requested him to do a second, third, or fourth follow-up test. October 2nd, 1985 – Rock Hudson dies from AIDS. It is strange that toward the fall of 1985, Freddie suddenly left Munich and returned to London. Some may say it was because he was ready to settle down at Garden Lodge. But I know that when Freddie did leave Munich toward the end of 1985 - it was for good, it was sudden and unexpected, and it was a life altering move. Something had changed him. He had abruptly cut off some of his closest friends from that city – Kurt (died from AIDS), Winnie K (died from AIDS), & Barbara Valentin (to name a few) without even returning their phone calls or offering any real explanation for the sudden and drastic departure. Gone too were his one night stands, recreational cocaine/ecstasy use, and clubbing he had partaken in Munich (and elsewhere throughout the previous years. Another person that was suddenly out of the picture...Paul Prenter. Paul had been employed under Freddie/Queen since the mid-70's and had worked for Queen as recently as the Live Aid concert in July of that year. He was, in many respects, Freddie's sexual liason when Queen were on tour. If you wanted to get to Freddie in a club, you had to go through Paul. Paul, an Irishman, was tough and cheeky. He was someone who specifically knew Freddie's sexual tastes and became Freddie's go between for fishing out anyone Freddie particularly fancied at a club, but didn't want to bother with the negotiating of a possible tryst. All I know is that something must have happened to Freddie in late 1985 that made him ditch Paul Prenter and the party boys at the nightclubs in Munich and retreat to Garden Lodge. Could it have been a doctor telling him that he may have the dreaded and deadly diagnosis that was going to kill him? 1986 - is where the crap really begins to hit the fan. It was in 1986 that insurance companies began screening their clients for HIV. You can bet that all the members of Queen would have taken out insurance to cover a whole gauntlet of possible liabilities that may arise in the face of a disaster while on tour. Freddie, most likely, under the guidance of Jim Beach, took out a policy that would cover expenses if Queen were unable to take the stage at, let's say, Wembley Stadium, because Freddie lost his voice due to a health issue. Health insurance is essential for singers who earn their living from their instrument. Cover for touring abroad, loss of voice, accidental injury, engagement cancellations and loss of earnings will protect the singer if they are unable to perform due to illness or other unforeseen events. In 1984, the last time Queen started a tour, the ELISA HIV test had not been available to Insurance Companies for the screening of their clients for HIV. You can bet that any insurer willing to cover a voice like Freddie Mercury's on a Stadium Tour across Europe would want to know every little detail of their subject's health and the possibility of having to pay thousands or even millions of pounds due to a tour or concert cancellation if Freddie became ill. It is almost a certainty that before the beginning of the Magic Tour, Freddie, whose liability would have been greatest in the band, would have been tested for many diseases (Now including HIV) and would have found out that he was positive for the virus. No insurance company in their right mind would offer coverage to a person with HIV - especially in 1986 when AIDS was a death sentence. We all know Freddie decided to do the tour -even though he would have been aware of the gamble: if he suddenly became ill or lost his voice (like in Sun City, 1984) - he would be screwed financially! His behaviour on the tour seems to back up this theory. The other band members noticed that something was up with him. He wasn't out partying anymore. Paul Prenter wasn't hired for the tour. (Paul Prenter also died of AIDS in 1991) Freddie knew that this tour would be the last one! Even though my above 'theory' would have a doctor telling Freddie that he had tested positive for HIV in late 1985 or early 1986, that doctor would have told him that the test result may not be so & He would have had to go for multiple tests - and when test result after test result would have come back positive throughout 1986, perhaps Freddie didn't want to hear it again. Perhaps that is why Mary Austin says she received a call from his GP telling her that Freddie wasn't returning his calls and to tell Freddie to call back him? (Do you recall a tabloid story in The Sun (sept 1986) alleging that Freddie had recently taken an AIDS test and Freddie angrily responding: Does it look like I'm Dying?) Early 1987, coincidentally, saw the development of a newer and more reliable HIV test called the Western Blot. It was a much more accurate test than the ELISA. My hypothesis is that Freddie was probably alerted to his HIV status a year and a half earlier in 1985. He had gone for test after test throughout 1986 and finally, in the Spring of 1987, along with a lymphnode b |
| jamster1111 02.10.2011 11:10 |
Very interesting. Thank you. |
| MadTheSwine73 02.10.2011 11:24 |
Thanks for the very interesting information. |
| The Real Wizard 02.10.2011 11:29 |
Excellent detective work ! My question is - if Freddie was HIV positive in early 1986, then how did he manage to get health insurance for the Magic tour? This leads to many related questions that will most likely go unanswered. |
| e-man 02.10.2011 11:50 |
good post! |
| jamster1111 02.10.2011 12:18 |
My question is when do you think he contracted the virus? My guess is sometime in 1984 when he spent lots of time Munich. |
| GratefulFan 02.10.2011 13:50 |
Barbara Valentin claimed in one of the biographies that Freddie was first tested in 1985 and already had developed minor unexplained and unusual physical symptoms. That makes sense as the diagnosis we know about was made based on KS, an AIDS defining illness, which indicates an advanced course of infection which was likely preceded by other symptoms. |
| GratefulFan 02.10.2011 13:52 |
Sir GH wrote: Excellent detective work ! My question is - if Freddie was HIV positive in early 1986, then how did he manage to get health insurance for the Magic tour? This leads to many related questions that will most likely go unanswered. ===================== I understood the OP to have implied that he didn't seek insurance, and that's why his behaviour changed and he took fewer risks during his personal time. |
| The Real Wizard 02.10.2011 14:23 |
That'd make sense. |
| tcc 02.10.2011 19:01 |
I think up to the Magic Tour, it was just lingering suspicions that he might have HIV but there was a hope he could escape this fate. You can see in the Wembley DVDs that he was still in high spirits. However, in the music videos for the Miracle album he looked very sombre. The contrast in mood is very clear. |
| paulosham 02.10.2011 19:20 |
I hate this fucking thread. |
| the dude 1366 02.10.2011 21:49 |
I know the Jim Hutton book is taken with a grain of salt. But according to that book Freddie was worried that he might have the virus, but was diagnosed in 1987. oh and I hate this thread too. It's a funny thing to speculate about unless you have real info from those around Freddie. So i'm just sharing info i think i remember from someone close to Freddie. |
| The Real Wizard 02.10.2011 22:33 |
Just because Hutton found out in 1987 doesn't mean Mercury found out in 1987. I really wish people would stop taking these tell-all books as gospel. |
| neokaden 03.10.2011 01:12 |
Personally I think Freddie was infected in 1984 and during that year, the concerts in"sun city", he came to spit blood to sing, canceling a concert, it had never happened inany previous tour, even with a sorry state in the voice, as in Japan 1979. You have to understand that HIV, once entered the body, causes symptoms immediately (thoughsimilar to a normal cold), then symptoms disappear and then reappear years later. On the other hand, we must remember that one of the places where there are higher rates of AIDS infection, it is precisely South Africa (30% to 50%), in fact, many doctorshave said repeatedly that the virus spread from South Africa to Europe and then the world, this because the probability of infection rate in South Africa during the 80's, was very high (and still is to this day) Of course I do not think Freddie is quite realize until months later, it is quite plausible that the first signs have appeared in late 1985, and to be confirmed in 1986. |
| Gregsynth 03.10.2011 01:23 |
neokaden wrote: Personally I think Freddie was infected in 1984 and during that year, the concerts in"sun city", he came to spit blood to sing, canceling a concert, it had never happened inany previous tour, even with a sorry state in the voice, as in Japan 1979. You have to understand that HIV, once entered the body, causes symptoms immediately (thoughsimilar to a normal cold), then symptoms disappear and then reappear years later. On the other hand, we must remember that one of the places where there are higher rates of AIDS infection, it is precisely South Africa (30% to 50%), in fact, many doctorshave said repeatedly that the virus spread from South Africa to Europe and then the world, this because the probability of infection rate in South Africa during the 80's, was very high (and still is to this day) Of course I do not think Freddie is quite realize until months later, it is quite plausible that the first signs have appeared in late 1985, and to be confirmed in 1986. ========= The whole blood-spitting thing was related to nodule problems. |
| neokaden 03.10.2011 01:32 |
I doubt it, Freddie had previously had many problems resulting from vocal nodules, reaching a climax in Japan-1979, but never got to spit blood. Instead, spitting blood, if it seems more consistent with the idea that may have had a throat infection, caused by inflammation of the lymph nodes, which is the initial symptom of a person recently infected with HIV. |
| Gregsynth 03.10.2011 01:39 |
Him spitting blood has nothing to with lymph nodes or HIV/AIDS. That blood-spitting was nodule related. At least one of the nodules had to have burst or ruptured from the strain of singing. Listen to his voice pre-Sun City, then in 1985--his tone cleared up. |
| Queenman!! 03.10.2011 02:07 |
Gregsynth wrote: Him spitting blood has nothing to with lymph nodes or HIV/AIDS. That blood-spitting was nodule related. At least one of the nodules had to have burst or ruptured from the strain of singing. Listen to his voice pre-Sun City, then in 1985--his tone cleared up. ========== That blood spitting was told in the press. So do you believe it? As Peter Freestone told in your 'debate' he can't remember it and if it had happened he would. On the other hand.... maybe Peter wasn't there at the moment. |
| Gregsynth 03.10.2011 03:10 |
People emailed me personally and/or Youtube messaged me this information. I also had this confirmed at the Breakthru 2011 Queen convention--someone told me that a friend of theirs attended a couple of the Sun City shows--and Freddie lost his voice at one of them and was coughing up stuff on stage. I also googled "spitting blood" and some results led to stuff related to smoking and throat/lung irritation (since Freddie was a smoker--this could also be a reason). |
| Bo Rhap 03.10.2011 06:14 |
Thanks for this thread btw. All i can say is that when i was at the Knebworth gig i noticed something different about Freddie.Couldnt put my finger on it tho.You see,when i used to go to gigs,i liked to be as close to the stage as i can get.So that i can see the band with my own two eyes.Rather than look at a screen or whatever.I have been that close in the past that i have been hit in the face with Roger's sweat at one of his The Cross gigs.I have also been hit in the face with one of Freddie's towels during the Hot Space tour. I just remember looking at Freddie during the Knebworth gig and thinking"There's something wrong with you".It wasnt what he was doing onstage.Cos that was fine.It was something in the way he looked. |
| plumrach 03.10.2011 06:34 |
TCC Wrote I think up to the Magic Tour, it was just lingering suspicions that he might have HIV but there was a hope he could escape this fate. You can see in the Wembley DVDs that he was still in high spirits. However, in the music videos for the Miracle album he looked very sombre. The contrast in mood is very clear. _____________________________________________________________________________ You can tell also just how much weight freddie had lost, not so much in the I Want it all video but definetly by breakthru he was showing signs of big weight loss |
| Fone Bone 03.10.2011 06:35 |
Interesting original post and thread There is indeed a very strong case that Freddie knew during the Magic Tour, I agree with all the posts that say he looked/felt different. Never did he say "see you next time" to a Magic Tour audience. That's why fans fantasizing about a farewell tour for The Miracle are looking at it the wrong way; The Magic Tour was the farewell tour indeed. Then The Miracle was supposed to be just that, a miracle: doctors couldn't know Freddie still had Innuendo + additional Made in Heaven sessions in him |
| Raffy 03.10.2011 07:23 |
Fone Bone wrote: Interesting original post and thread There is indeed a very strong case that Freddie knew during the Magic Tour, I agree with all the posts that say he looked/felt different. Never did he say "see you next time" to a Magic Tour audience. That's why fans fantasizing about a farewell tour for The Miracle are looking at it the wrong way; The Magic Tour was the farewell tour indeed. Then The Miracle was supposed to be just that, a miracle: doctors couldn't know Freddie still had Innuendo + additional Made in Heaven sessions in him ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Freddie was told to have little more than a few months to live in late 1989 so the fact that he has managed to survive with the desease for another 2 years is a true "Miracle". For me he contracted the virus in 1983-circa and the HIV-positive condition persisted till the mid-end of 1986 when the illness developed in full blown AIDS. For a comparison just look at the "A kind of magic" video then after "Who wants to live forever": he seems here more skinny and pale so for me at this time (Sept. 1986) he was already ill. |
| Raffy 03.10.2011 08:01 |
Anyway my opinion on when he discovered to be ill is this: he took the first test in 1985 when he was going steady with Jim Hutton and became aware of the death of some of his friends and lovers (after the 39th birthday party organized as a farewell gesture to his frantic gay-life style) which gave him negative reply (due to the fact that the test in those days was pretty inaccurate as it's stated in Ozzy Osbourne autobiography "I am Ozzy" when he talks about the HIV-test that he made in 1986 after a night passed in company of a prostitute: the test said that he was HIV-postitive but after a reexamination of the results the doctor came to the conclusion that he only had a severe deficiency of the immune system due to an excessive use of alcohol and drugs). Then there were the exams prior of the Magic Tour and here he found to be HIV-positive but in a way he managed to hide the results to the band members and his family (due to professional secrecy between doctor and patient) find an accord with the insurance company with putting togheter a smaller tour of only European countries that would not overly stress his body (in order to distract the band he began to tell excuses like "I'm tired to be on tour", signals are also the fact that after every concert he never said "See you next time" and the answer he gave to the Hungarian journalist after the question "Will you come back in the future here in Hungary?" when he said "If I'm still alive I'll come back") and began secretly the cures. Anyway it was too late so in the same year the illnes developed into full blown AIDS but he discovered this only in April 1987 due to the lesions he found on his body. |
| Raffy 03.10.2011 08:26 |
A link that talks about the HIV test of Ozzy Osbourne: link |
| tcc 03.10.2011 08:30 |
I am not doubting anyone's guess but I think the insurance aspect is not so convincing for the following reasons: 1. It is not possible to hide the insurance arrangement from the other band members - in one interview Freddie said that the band would not sign anything unless John Deacon had confirmed that the documents were in order. 2. Brian had revealed that the Magic Tour was the first time that the band made money on a tour. That means they were taking in the sales and expenses on their own account and they did not sell the concert to a concert promoter. Therefore, there is no need to buy insurance for any liability to a concert promoter if they cannot perform due to ill health etc. If the concert does not go through, they just need to refund the ticket sales and lose money on the expenses incurred. (My two cents worth of opinion :-) ) |
| Eric Taylor 03.10.2011 08:33 |
My Opinion: 1983 - New York - The HIV virus can live for years in the human body without being detected. |
| Raffy 03.10.2011 08:56 |
Read also this: link Sharon says: "I knew from my gay friends that in those days (the 80's) the test was so unsophisticated and delicate that it only had to be shaken and you could get the wrong result..." So the supposition of the wrong result seems credible, maybe also the test before of the Magic Tour gave an incorrect result. |
| freddiefan91 03.10.2011 09:10 |
So potentially the marks on his arm at live aid could of been signs that he was showing signs of the disease? Or maybe they were just general bruises |
| Raffy 03.10.2011 09:17 |
freddiefan91 wrote: So potentially the marks on his arm at live aid could of been signs that he was showing signs of the disease? Or maybe they were just general bruises ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those marks were present also when he played with Queen at Montreux Pop Festival in 1984, but I think that those were only general bruises 'cause the signs of the Kaposi's Sarcoma appear only in an advanced stage of the disease (full blown AIDS) and rarely when the subject is only HIV-positive. |
| The Real Wizard 03.10.2011 10:48 |
Raffy wrote: it's stated in Ozzy Osbourne autobiography "I am Ozzy" when he talks about the HIV-test that he made in 1986 after a night passed in company of a prostitute: the test said that he was HIV-postitive but after a reexamination of the results the doctor came to the conclusion that he only had a severe deficiency of the immune system due to an excessive use of alcohol and drugs ================ That's news to me ... wow. I don't think we'll ever know the exact details, but it's always interesting to speculate about this. But I am completely certain Mercury knew he was at least HIV-positive on the Magic tour. Not only did he never say "see you next time" at the end of a show, but his mood at the first Munich concert (a place where he frequented the gay scene for years) was very sombre. I think this is pretty revealing in itself.. Have a look - link |
| Raffy 03.10.2011 11:27 |
Yes I have seen these picture, listen to the bootleg extracted from that concert and fully agree with your argument: I think Freddie was well aware of his health status during the Magic Tour |
| And91 03.10.2011 20:46 |
link Look at this photo taken in the first show in Munich. Look at the face of Freddie. seems sad to me, with a kind of lost look. Probably in Munich was the first time he saw his old friends from there with Aids so ill and dying and this show to him the cruel reality of this disease. And this shocking him so much. That would explain his anger during that first gig. I also believe he was aware of his disease throughout the Magic Tour. I remember reading somewhere that at first he did not want to do this tour but was persuaded. Probably only agreed because he saw that he still had energy to sing and dancing. Probably in mid of 87 he lost that energy. Compare the first presentation of Barcelona in May 1987 with the second in October 1988. He lost a lot of energy during this period. He looks older in the second presentation, with slower movements. |
| The Real Wizard 03.10.2011 21:08 |
Ah yes, that picture is from this set: link Completely agree with your observations. |
| Gregsynth 03.10.2011 23:15 |
Very interesting details and observations! I was watching that Kenny Everett/Freddie Mercury documentary, and it made note of that Russian guy (Nikolai) being infected in 1984 with HIV, and then coincidentally, all the guys in that circle (Freddie, Kenny, Pepe, etc) got HIV. Kenny got diagnosed in 1984. This seems to make sense and fit within all these timelines people are writing about. |
| rocknrolllover 04.10.2011 00:22 |
And no-one ever really knows the truth from the lies |
| Gregsynth 04.10.2011 00:43 |
I watched those Barcelona videos. Freddie doesn't even look ill! |
| rocknrolllover 04.10.2011 02:01 |
No one ever really knows the truth it or lies When he was infected with HIV, under any circumstances. Who infected him, nobody knows. Tales about Russian soldier, who came to America to infect everybody does not hold water. Are you wondering when and who infected him with HIV? Freddie could infect in the hospital, which he visited,specifically it was done or not is unknown. And is it really so important to who and when Freddie became infected with HIV? Time frame can be between 1985 and 1986. |
| rocknrolllover 04.10.2011 02:17 |
Aren't you considering a lung cancer as the cause of death, Freddie? He had laryngitis, and sometimes he tore his voice on concerts. On the concert at Sun City, he generally lost it.In addition, he was a smoker. in the begining was period passive smoker and then he became active smoker. |
| plumrach 04.10.2011 02:41 |
gregsynth wrote watched those Barcelona videos. Freddie doesn't even look ill! _______________________________________________________________________ I agree he looks fine and on top form, though according to barbara valentine he was wearing heavy makeup to hide the ks marks on his face |
| Raffy 04.10.2011 04:06 |
For me in the 1988 exhibition he looks very tired, static, "swollen" (I think mostly because of the medications and their controindications), pale (possibly because of the strong makeup applied to hide the lesions) and aged considerably. For the first time he actually demonstrates his age, while previously he had always maintained youthful. Instead in the 1987 exhibition he looks just fine: his physical aspect resembles the Freddie from Live Aid but of course without a mustache :) |
| Fone Bone 04.10.2011 08:33 |
Yes I'm with Raffy here, from 1988 onwards his face turns oedemic at first due to medication (eg The Miracle booklet group picture) and then increasingly gaunt (I Want It All video and everything afterwards) Anyway, trying not to give in to morbid fascination, I think the consensus that Freddie knew his illness during the Magic Tour makes him even more of a trooper. Queen's biggest tour and two and a half albums including one masterpiece (Innuendo of course), that's impressive output for a man who knows his days are counted. Look at Bowie, he quit music altogether after his heart problem |
| Micrówave 04.10.2011 10:39 |
GratefulFan wrote: Sir GH wrote: Excellent detective work ! My question is - if Freddie was HIV positive in early 1986, then how did he manage to get health insurance for the Magic tour? This leads to many related questions that will most likely go unanswered.===================== I understood the OP to have implied that he didn't seek insurance, and that's why his behaviour changed and he took fewer risks during his personal time. Ok, let's think about this for a minute. This is the reason that The Magic Tour was the last Queen tour. Not because Freddie didn't feel good! A tour production is not just four guys loading up the truck and playing gigs. You don't decide just NOT to have insurance, it would be a stipulation in the contract. The promoter would absorb the cost and pass it along to the artists in their fees. Freddie HAD to have had Medical Coverage for this tour to even happen. But we don't know the behind the scenes business side of it. Is it possible that Freddie's status changed to UNINSURABLE after or during the Magic Tour. Did Freddie know this was going to happen? I think so. There was no Miracle Tour because they couldn't insure the band. If something happened during the tour, the production company would be liable for all costs and subsequent lawsuits. Think about it for a minute. Two shows in, Freddie gets real sick and requires hospitalization for months until he passes. Then Brian, Roger, and John are out all that income from the tour... making the promoter liable. We're talking millions of dollars here. What promoter, in their right mind, would take that risk? |
| rocknrolllover 04.10.2011 11:15 |
Promoters and management in the person of Jim's Beach killed Freddie. Freddie was not gay. He was bisexual |
| Scofflaw 04.10.2011 13:48 |
I agree with a lot of the insight in the original post, but the time line of Freddie being infected in 1985 does not fit well at all. If he was infected in 1985, it would be extremely unusual for him to have already progressed to an AIDS diagnosis in 1987. Typical incubation period from HIV infection to AIDS is 7-10 years without modern medicine. For someone to go from infection to AIDS in 2 years, would mean he must have been infected with several virulent strains of the virus, and even then, highly unlikely. Even more improbable to think he went from infection to AIDS in 2 years, yet managed to survive almost another 5 years with virtually no immune system. I think it's more likely that he was infected in 1980-1982, with typical progression of the virus, putting him at an AIDS diagnosis sometime around 1987ish. The KS he was experiencing in 1987 would have meant an official AIDS diagnosis. For him to live almost 5 more years with virtually no immune system and no modern day treatments, is quite a miracle, since the average person with an official AIDS diagnosis (t-cell count under 200, and/or evidence of opportunistic infections) typically has less than 2 years to live. Opportunistic infections tend to become increasingly difficult to recover from as the disease progresses. I remember him playing on Saturday Night Live in 1982 and it seemed he had the flu, his voice sounded shot, and he was obviously sick. To me, that makes more sense as a time period for infection, especially since he was in NYC at the time, where HIV had already begun to spread like wildfire. The flu during that time could possibly have been the flu like symptoms someone gets immediately following infection. It also made sense to me that he figured out he was infected some time around the Magic Tour. Even if he was physically able to tour, the exposure to all of those people and the stresses of traveling and performing with little down time would have wreaked hell on what little was left of his immune system. Obviously this isn't science, just one opinion. |
| rocknrolllover 04.10.2011 14:02 |
Does anybody notes my posts, I hope? |
| The Real Wizard 04.10.2011 14:02 |
Scofflaw wrote: I remember him playing on Saturday Night Live in 1982 and it seemed he had the flu, his voice sounded shot, and he was obviously sick. To me, that makes more sense as a time period for infection, especially since he was in NYC at the time, where HIV had already begun to spread like wildfire. The flu during that time could possibly have been the flu like symptoms someone gets immediately following infection. ================= Very interesting observation. It has been traditionally told that he had a fight with his boyfriend the entire night before, but who knows what's true.. Nice to see the scientific side brought into the mix. |
| Scofflaw 04.10.2011 14:35 |
Thanks. like I said, those are all my opinions. I worked with AIDS patients in the early 90's and saw quite a lot with how the disease works, progresses, responds to various medicines. The Freddie time line has never made much scientific sense to me. I'd say infection around 1980-1982, he probably found out he was positive around 1985 or 1986, developed AIDS in 1987, and some experimental therapies were to credit for keeping him alive until 1991. I believe he was probably given some of the very early experimental cocktail drugs, maybe p.i.s, because we know he was very sick in 1989 and 1990, but managed to recover. I'd also guess around the Miracle time, he was experimenting with AZT mixed with emerging cocktail therapies, because the edema in his face is really pronounced (look at the video for "I want it all"). It's most likely that being Freddie Mercury, he was able to get his hands on more advanced medicine than the general public , but because of how far advanced his disease was, he had already sustained substantial and severe organ damage by that point (wasting syndrome, multiple opportunistic respiratory infections, maybe CMV or other severe eye complications, etc....) and he was beyond repair. I guess one (small) good thing about his passing is that he inspired me to work with AIDS patients as a young adult. :) |
| malicedoom 04.10.2011 15:24 |
Edema... is that in reference to how 'puffy' his face looked at times, specifically in the I Want It All video? I've always wondered about that. I had assumed his face puffed up because of some type of steroid he may have been on at the time to try and keep his body strong. My ex-girlfriend (who has since passed) had a similar reaction when on steroids (she had cystic fibrosis), and the look was very similar. |
| Gregsynth 04.10.2011 15:42 |
I have to give Bob credit for displaying this picture on his site--this may help solve mysteries: link On Freddie's left cheek, there's a small collection of little red bumps (it's right in-between the light reflecting on his face). These are not Kaposi's Sarcoma, but what appear to be shingles/herpes blisters. I read that it's common to get this type of rash during the HIV stage after the latent stage (when the symptoms start to appear--but not yet at the severe stage). |
| paulosham 04.10.2011 16:36 |
The way you people are trying to find out as much as you can about Fred when he was dying makes me sick. Haven't you ever heard the term Rest In Peace? |
| Scofflaw 04.10.2011 20:20 |
Eh, I think it's more human nature than anything else. For me, and I'm sure for a lot of other Queen fans, Freddie seemed almost super human, a larger than life figure. I'm sure the last few years of his life included more pain and suffering than most of us have experienced and it's natural to be curious about the devastating lows of a life so full of extremes. It's why people read novels and tabloids and watch movies and plays and why they care in the first place. |
| john bodega 04.10.2011 22:49 |
Hehe, that's why I love these threads. Every flu he had in the 80's was "the big one where he copped HIV", and every photo where his face isn't silky smooth is evidence of the infection. What a laugh, seriously. Regardless, I'll play along. My gut says he knew by the Magic Tour, whether he had a doctor telling him or not. With all of those people in the gay scene dropping like flies, he'd have to have had an inkling of what the possibilities were. |
| SimonFerocious 05.10.2011 00:10 |
Freddie found out he was HIV positive in April 1987. Doctors had taken a skin sample from his shoulder and the results came back positive. I saw a documentary about the infamous New York nightclub Studio 54 and one of the busboys there claimed to have had sex with both Rock Hudson AND Freddie Mercury there. He claimed he went "around the world" which was a term for doing everything with both of them. Would be interesting to see a documentary about Freddie's battle with AIDS as it's something nobody seems to want to tackle, even the movie about him with Sacha Baron Cohen ends at Live Aid and doesn't touch on his HIV years. It's not disrespectful to want to know more about your idol so many years after his death. |
| SimonFerocious 05.10.2011 00:13 |
Yes, I saw the Magic Tour too and I noticed something odd about Freddie. It's his eyes, they look very watery and white. His voice was also the worst I'd heard it on that tour, he was straining to hit notes he hit with ease on the Milton Keynes show a few years before. |
| Gregsynth 05.10.2011 00:20 |
SimonFerocious wrote: Yes, I saw the Magic Tour too and I noticed something odd about Freddie. It's his eyes, they look very watery and white. His voice was also the worst I'd heard it on that tour, he was straining to hit notes he hit with ease on the Milton Keynes show a few years before. ============ Having a strained voice has nothing to do with HIV/AIDS. The Works Tour is far worse for Freddie's vocals. Have a listen to Vienna 1984--that's worse than anything I've heard on the Magic Tour. |
| rocknrolllover 05.10.2011 00:36 |
No one ever really knows the truth it or lies When he was infected with HIV, under any circumstances. Who infected him, nobody knows. Tales about Russian soldier, who came to America to infect everybody does not hold water. Are you wondering when and who infected him with HIV? Freddie could infect in the hospital, which he visited,specifically it was done or not is unknown.And is it really so important to who and when Freddie became infected with HIV? Time frame can be between 1985 and 1986. Promoters and management in the person of Jim's Beach killed Freddie. Freddie was not gay. He was bisexual |
| Micrówave 05.10.2011 01:16 |
SimonFerocious wrote: He claimed he went "around the world" which was a term for doing everything...Can we please rename this thread: AROUND THE WORLD WITH FREDDIE MERCURY |
| rocknrolllover 05.10.2011 02:42 |
No one ever really knows the truth it or lies When he was infected with HIV, under any circumstances. Who infected him, nobody knows. Tales about Russian soldier, who came to America to infect everybody does not hold water. Are you wondering when and who infected him with HIV? Freddie could infect in the hospital, which he visited,specifically it was done or not is unknown.And is it really so important to who and when Freddie became infected with HIV? Time frame can be between 1985 and 1986.Promoters and management in the person of Jim's Beach killed Freddie. Freddie was not gay. He was bisexual |
| raucousmonster 05.10.2011 03:48 |
I think Freddie strongly suspected he had Aids throughout 1986 and maybe even as early as Autumn 1985. There were some articles in the press with info from Paul Prenter about phone calls from Freddie worrying about having the disease because a lot of his former lovers had recently died or were sick. It was getting too close to home. I know Paul Prenter isn't well liked for betraying Freddie and it was a tabloid story but I'm inclined to believe they did have this conversation. I also remember reading about the lead singer of Erasure (I think it was him anyway, may have been Holly Johnson from Frankie GTH). He said that when he received a positive result for Aids he wasn't really surprised because he had been having a lot of unexplained minor illnesses in the weeks and months prior to his result. I reckon Freddie may have had a lot of colds or rashes or whatever that were annoying but went away quickly. This would have been enough to make him worry about having the disease. Ultimately it seems to be the KS that led to the eventual diagnosis - I also read that it was Freddie's 13th test when the result came back so he had taken quite a few so it was obviously on his mind. If you look at the interview he gave on German TV promoting The Great Pretender you can clearly see the KS on his cheek. He received his positive result a few weeks later just after Easter Sunday. No idea when he contracted it but if we believe Freddie genuinely stayed faithful to Jim from mid 1985 onwards as Jim says in his book (RIP Jim btw) then it was before Live Aid. I always felt he picked the disease up in New York (as opposed to Munich) where it seemed to take hold of the population quite quickly and Freddie spent a lot of time there in the early eighties. Paul Gambacini asked Freddie in 1983 in the Heaven club what he thought about this new disease and if he was going to take precautions but Freddie said no he was going to "do everything to everybody". So it wasn't a concern for him in 1983. The consistent issues with his voice throughout The Works tour and then in South Africa do point to him being under the weather to an extent. Whether this was partying, nodules or something worse it's hard to say. But I think it fits timing wise to contract the disease in 84 and become properly symptomatic with it in 1987 (KS at least) although I stress I am only guessing. It's a macbre subject I know but we all love Freddie and it's only natural to speculate about what happened to someone who is taken from us so please don't judge. |
| rocknrolllover 05.10.2011 05:50 |
Freddie could infect in the hospital, which he visited,specifically it was done or not is unknown.And is it really so important to who and when Freddie became infected with HIV? Time frame can be between 1985 and 1986.Promoters and management in the person of Jim's Beach killed Freddie. Freddie was not gay. He was bisexual No one ever really knows the truth it or lies When he was infected with HIV, under any circumstances. Who infected him, nobody knows. Tales about Russian soldier, who came to America to infect everybody does not hold water. Are you wondering when and who infected him with HIV? |
| Queenman!! 05.10.2011 10:28 |
Gregsynth wrote: I have to give Bob credit for displaying this picture on his site--this may help solve mysteries: link On Freddie's left cheek, there's a small collection of little red bumps (it's right in-between the light reflecting on his face). These are not Kaposi's Sarcoma, but what appear to be shingles/herpes blisters. I read that it's common to get this type of rash during the HIV stage after the latent stage (when the symptoms start to appear--but not yet at the severe stage). ========- According to Peter Freestone he already had some skin issues and little spots in 1985. He used to cover them with make-up |
| Queen4ever13 05.10.2011 10:50 |
I agree with you, 1983 NYC, from the places he was going the Anvil, etc. all those sex clubs, it was Russian roulette for sure. I really feel for him because if you see the photos in Peter Freestone's book, Freddie looks so happy hanging out in his NY apartment with a group of friends who were just regular guys, not superstars, ironically a little bit of normalcy. But NYC was out of control in those days and noone knew the consequences. |
| Queen4ever13 05.10.2011 11:01 |
I can see what you mean, taking into consideration that he is getting older, but his eyes do show signs of weariness, maybe worry. I noticed it a little in the live aid concert but that was before and he was having throat problems then at the time. I feel so bad for him if he did know. How strong of a person he was to have the outlook and love of life that he did. |
| Queen4ever13 05.10.2011 12:18 |
Queen4ever13 wrote: I agree with you, 1983 NYC, from the places he was going the Anvil, etc. all those sex clubs, it was Russian roulette for sure. I really feel for him because if you see the photos in Peter Freestone's book, Freddie looks so happy hanging out in his NY apartment with a group of friends who were just regular guys, not superstars, ironically a little bit of normalcy. But NYC was out of control in those days and noone knew the consequences. "And bad mistakes"..... we all make em, if we could only go back with the knowledge we have and redo. |
| Hangman_96 05.10.2011 13:12 |
I've read that Freddie was infected in 1983 - the most possible date. What do you think? |
| Scofflaw 05.10.2011 15:41 |
He was not infected in a hospital, lol. While I agree with Z, that we are making a lot of assumptions and we likely have no idea of the exact date (my throwing out the 1982 SNL date was more of an off the wall guess than anything), I do think it's safe to say he was infected via sex and it happened well before 1984. If you believe the documentaries, the tell all books and the pictures, Freddie was going out and having lots of casual sex with many men, in New York gay sex clubs from ~ 1981-1984. He probably didn't use condoms, because most men didn't at that time. It's more likely he was infected very soon after beginning that phase of his life, than later. He would be exceptionally lucky if he could engage in regular unprotected sex in that scene and still be HIV negative a year later, much less 3-4 years later. It's always bothered me the way the media seems to throw all logic and 30+ years of HIV research out the window when it pertains to Freddie. There is almost zero chance he was infected in 1985 and it progressed to AIDS by 1987, and there's just as small of a chance that he was having unprotected sex in bathhouses for 3-5 years before getting infected. Possible, but very highly unlikely. It's also extremely likely that he unwittingly infected dozens of men himself. Such were the times. |
| youngballantyne 06.10.2011 00:34 |
Scofflaw wrote: It's always bothered me the way the media seems to throw all logic and 30+ years of HIV research out the window when it pertains to Freddie. There is almost zero chance he was infected in 1985 and it progressed to AIDS by 1987, and there's just as small of a chance that he was having unprotected sex in bathhouses for 3-5 years before getting infected. Possible, but very highly unlikely. It's also extremely likely that he unwittingly infected dozens of men himself. Such were the times ====================== It is completely possible for a person to progress to full blown AIDS in a relatively short time period. I personally knew someone who took only 10 months from being infected by someone who had it (they were in a monogamous relationship) to showing their first KS lesion and having a very low t-cell/high viral load. MOST people have longer incubation periods but in general, you never know - different strokes for different folks! It can progress very aggresively in some people. I never intended to guess when Freddie was infected, it could be anywhere from 1976 to 1983 (the year he quit NY) - We will never know! 1976? Why so early? This was the year history shows the initial infection of HIV in New York City that lead to almost all subsequintial AIDS cases in the following decade (in America). It was July 4th 1976 where thousands of sailors from all over the world came to New York for the huge US Bicentennial celebrations. Within the next 5 years, culminating in June 1981, gay men were showing up with stange infections that baffled doctors who couldn't explain why previously healthy young men were suffereing from KS, Pneumonia, & CMV. It wasn't until late 1980 that the US CDC finally noticed that many doctors were requesting prescriptions for a rare antiobiotic to treat Pneumocystis jiroveci carinii and all of the patients were gay men. All of these cases from Los Angeles, San Fransisco, & Miami were traced back to New York. Whenever Freddie was infected, I will have to say it was most probably in NYC. Anyway, enough about AIDS! Let's get back to talking about the music of a man I consider to be a genius :)) For those of you who are doubting the fact that the QUEEN biopic will happen - It will! Next year! They are going to be doing the Queen Extravaganza to coincide with the film's promotion in the states ;) |
| Scofflaw 06.10.2011 21:42 |
youngballantyne wrote: It is completely possible for a person to progress to full blown AIDS in a relatively short time period. I personally knew someone who took only 10 months 1976? Why so early? This was the year history shows the initial infection of HIV in New York City that lead to almost all subsequintial AIDS cases in the following decade (in America). For those of you who are doubting the fact that the QUEEN biopic will happen - It will! Next year! They are going to be doing the Queen Extravaganza to coincide with the film's promotion in the states ;) ___________________________________ It's possible to go from infection to AIDS in 10 months, but that is such a rare situation, and usually that would mean the person a) was infected with multiple strains of the virus or the mythical HIV super-infection and/or b) was unhealthy to begin with. I'm not sure if there were so many strains of the virus back in the early 80's, likely it was just a couple of strains being spread around. He might have been reinfected many times over, and that tends to speed up the HIV progress as well. Freddie supposedly used cocaine in the early 80's, that could have also sped up the disease's progress. So many variables, and we'll never really know what happened. I do agree with you that he could have been infected as early as 1976, if he were in NY during that time. I hope that he didn't know back in 1985 that he was HIV+, because I don't want to think of him as that much of an asshole that he would knowingly infect people, including his own boyfriend. and like you, I am super excited about the biopic, and I can't wait until we have that to discuss. |
| kosimodo 08.10.2011 14:56 |
Very interesting thread, good enough for the serious discussion:) It is interesting to know how and what.. Understanding His music becomes maybe easier. Wonder how they did the tour in 86 though. And rocknrolllover.... Freddie was (and probably is) Gay with a kapital G. |
| jenss85 29.12.2011 12:32 |
according to this interview with Mary, he knew much earlier than originally thought |
| jenss85 29.12.2011 12:33 |
link according to this interview with Mary, he knew much earlier than originally thought |
| tomchristie22 30.12.2011 03:59 |
Interesting discussion. I live nearby to Peter Freestone, and he was attending a show by a Queen tribute band whilst I was too and I met him afterwards, though I didn't think to ask him anything :P |
| Day dop 30.12.2011 18:53 |
raucousmonster wrote: I think Freddie strongly suspected he had Aids throughout 1986 and maybe even as early as Autumn 1985.Indeed. |
| Day dop 30.12.2011 19:02 |
I thought he looked quite chubby still in the I want it all video (he went through that slightly chubbier phase around 87/88) - and yet by breakthrough he looked pretty thin. Those videos were shot within only a couple of months of each other, and I thought it was a dramatic weight loss in that time. |
| Day dop 30.12.2011 19:07 |
His weight increased after 86.... there's interviews with him where he is kinda large for Fred in 87. Around the Great Pretender time, and when he did the video for Time. I don't think the signs really started to show until 89. Until then he was just a guy gradually putting on weight, getting a bit older... His skin looked rougher in the I want it all video - but by Breakthrough, his weight had dropped fast.... |
| Day dop 30.12.2011 19:16 |
I didn't know about that. And that photo is saddening. |
| Day dop 30.12.2011 19:26 |
I think it was that he'd become quite a heavy smoker, and that's what altered his voice. |
| jenss85 31.12.2011 13:54 |
Everything I've heard has also been 87 but in the link I posted above she said he knew during the last tour and had know for 18 months so who knows. |
| Day dop 31.12.2011 20:40 |
As I recall it from what I read - Freddie told Jim Hutton as soon as he knew he received the results in spring 87. I can't imagine Freddie would've kept that from him. So, I imagine she meant he knew - as in his worst fears. But he didn't absolutely know. |
| stevendabudgie 01.03.2012 18:33 |
I think Freddie showed first signs of aids in 1986. When you look closely you can recognize a red spot on the upper edge of his front right, in the middle just under the hairline. Time Video: link This lesion can also be seen in other interviews from 1986 |
| Winter Land Man 02.03.2012 15:08 |
jenss85 wrote: link according to this interview with Mary, he knew much earlier than originally thoughtThat's pretty freaky... |
| Al10579 12.09.2012 13:52 |
I know this thread is kind of old but I have read it so many times and I've finally signed up for this website and I want to leave a comment. someone commented: "good detective work" Well I don't agree, This isn't detective work at all, It's someone's theory, and I won't say it's not a good theory because it is, but there are some things that I just don't agree with. Like the comment about the elisa test not being readily available, come on man, we're talking about Freddie Mercury, who could afford ANYTHING his little heart desired, Including any kind of HIV test that was available anywhere in the world at that time, In Hutton's book he says he gave Freddie an ultimatum: shape up or he's shipping out, and shortly after that Freddie decided to take Jim up on that and moved back to London, Now the theory could be true, that he knew what he was facing, or he simply could have wanted to make his new lover happy. The first Elisa tests were about 99.95% accurate, and they probably would have told him to retest in about 3 or 4 months to be sure, I do not really give the people that were his friends in Germany (who are all pretty much now dead) to much faith, for one most of them can't be interviewed again because they're dead, and 2, They were most likely pissed off and hurt by the way Freddie just kinda cut and run back to London, So their words could be out of anger, I'm not saying this is the case, But you never know. Nobody can be 100% sure what really happened accept for Freddie and he's not here to tell us. This was a good post dont get me wrong, I just wanted to add some other possibility's to the conversation, Because we do not know 100% what were all the reasons and facts we cannot speculate either way how it happened, And I for one will not soil someone's good name with hearsay evidence that is almost 30 years old, It could have went either way here Jim may have gave it to Freddie or the other way around, It doesn't matter much now, all that really matter is that Jim and Freddie both eventually found out and decided to stick together till the end, That's what counts here. thank you. |
| Al10579 12.09.2012 14:14 |
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| Al10579 12.09.2012 14:20 |
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| RcTz 15.09.2012 18:57 |
you said after Rock's death he suddenly returned to London and changed his lifestyle,do you think they were somehow related to each other in the U.S. days of Freddiethis question is badly jumping up and down in my mind,both of these men are my very fave.Do you mean they had had a mutual partner or even more ,they had been partners in the past?Rock was more than twenty years older than Freddie but the way you say lots of doubts come to my mind,and I know the news about Rock came not in the media just the day he passed away,he himself announced it earlier,so on the other hand I guess if the had something in common which might cause Freddie to get seriously worried he would left everything possibly dangeous the day Rock talked about his health and Aids,but my doubts are still strong,what is your point of view? |
| Divacc 25.11.2012 19:39 |
Freddy Mercury knew he had aids since 1989 and died 2 years later. |
| The Real Wizard 25.11.2012 23:23 |
Thanks for clearing that up. Were you there when he found out? |
| brENsKi 26.11.2012 11:37 |
Divacc wrote: Freddy Mercury knew he had aids since 1989 and died 2 years later.well done on the accuracy of the last 5 words of your statement. pity the first 8 words are not so. |
| jones904 26.11.2012 12:41 |
HIV POSITIVE IS THE DIAGNOSIS THE DIAGNOSIS IS NOT AIDS- AIDS IS MERELY THE SYMPTOM OF HIV DRUGS AIDS BEING THE DESTRUCTION OF THE IMMUNE SYSTEM CAUSED BY AGENTS OF POISON SUCH AS AZT A DRUG BANNED BY THE CALIFORNIAN ENVIROMENT AGENCY FROM WASTE WATER, AS IT IS KNOWN TO BE CANCER CAUSING |
| brENsKi 26.11.2012 13:13 |
apart from the inaccuracies/dispute in your statement. please STOP shouting |
| jones904 26.11.2012 14:37 |
brENsKi wrote: apart from the inaccuracies/dispute in your statement. please STOP shoutingHiv is the diagnosis (not scientifically proven to cause aids by the way) Aids the symptom azt causes cancer, which destroys the immune system california by law banned azt from being disposed into the states water supply because it causes cancer they stated that as the reason all verifiable facts. |
| brENsKi 26.11.2012 16:53 |
AIDS is NOT the symptom. AIDS is what has happened to the immune system - it's a SYNDROME that is used to define the "collection of one or more symptoms" that manifest once the syndrome has taken hold...ie the sarcomas,secondary viruses, broken bones, blindness etc etc |
| jones904 26.11.2012 17:05 |
brENsKi wrote: AIDS is NOT the symptom. AIDS is what has happened to the immune system - it's a SYNDROME that is used to define the "collection of one or more symptoms" that manifest once the syndrome has taken hold...ie the sarcomas,secondary viruses, broken bones, blindness etc etcAIDS HAS ALWAYS EXISTED It is a condition of the immune system the junk science that is not scientificly backed up by real scientific evendence, claims the depletion of the immune systemACRONYM A.I.D.S is aquired by HIV INFECTION This is scenitifically unproven to be the case to this day infact all the data that is scientific and known based upon the facts , shows that THIS IMMUNE DEFICIENCY IS Aquired AFTER the drug programme of so called AIDS drugs is given Before then the person labelled HIV + does not display the horrfic full blown immune deficiency symptons and they live healthy lives but are tormented by a label of a virus that is not responsible for a disease, hnce they live but are in torment of lies those whotook the aids medicine at first almost certainly died and very quickly from variuos diseases caused by having their immune systems destroyed most of diseases they died from are also designated side effects of the drugs the side effects are now given after the drug companies were forced to admit aids drugs cause many many deadly side effects one of which is cancer in various forms. this infromation was released and became known, hence the california banning on azt into their water supply because it is proven to cause CANCER hiv is a fraudulent label also as the hiv test cannot be sceintifically backed up by it's so called experts, who refuse to lie under oath in a court of law, for the sake of this money making genocide. |
| ashler 19.12.2012 16:20 |
Hello, I think this topic proves that the stigma around HIV/AIDS still remains even after three decades of the first cases in the US. I wonder if people would do the same 'research' and would comment the same amount if Freddie died from Hepatitis or Cancer. Probably not. By the way, those sharing pictures of Freddie trying to identify 'HIV symptoms' are laughable. HIV can not be diagnosed by symptoms, bumps on the face, or marks in an arm. HIV is diagnosed by specific tests. Anyone can look healthier than all of us together and be infected with HIV. Likewise, anyone can look sicker than all of us and be HIV negative. Please leave Freddie's memory in peace. |
| brENsKi 19.12.2012 16:45 |
not wanting to dredge over the passed dozens of posts - i don't think anyone was trying to diagnose hiv as the appearance of lumps and bumps. rather, i think that they were saying that at whatever point he had sarcomas then he was definitely HIV+ at that time, and that it was indisputable at that point in time welcome to the debate |
| ashler 20.12.2012 03:12 |
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| ashler 20.12.2012 03:14 |
"i don't think anyone was trying to diagnose hiv as the appearance of lumps and bumps" I think you're wrong. See below an example: Gregsynth wrote: I have to give Bob credit for displaying this picture on his site--this may help solve mysteries: link On Freddie's left cheek, there's a small collection of little red bumps (it's right in-between the light reflecting on his face). These are not Kaposi's Sarcoma, but what appear to be shingles/herpes blisters. I read that it's common to get this type of rash during the HIV stage after the latent stage (when the symptoms start to appear--but not yet at the severe stage). I wonder what would Freddie say if he read these comments. |
| RcTz 20.12.2012 18:24 |
He would say to himself,My God I was so wrong,there are still millions of people in mourn and loving me just this much even after 21 years,how I thought nobody would care if I died someday!!!and you know,and to us he would just say my curious fans!and then smile and pass,he was such a kind man,he was not that type to get angry at his fans,after all ,he knew well what loving a person so much means,you care for everything,simply everything! |
| bobbyo 22.12.2012 04:25 |
I think he'd be repulsed. |
| irkajava 05.04.2013 01:04 |
Thank you so very much for a very informative post. I wish I knew how to find your other posts on this forum. Take good care. What a loss this world experienced through Freddie Mercury's passing. I was the cool punker chick during this time. pop music wasn't even in my thoughts. But now, I realize I missed some great stuff. I still liked David Bowie, Bob Marley, Michael Jackson, and for fun Rick James. Motorhead, Prince, and that's about it. The rest punk. |
| jrd1951 06.04.2013 04:36 |
That is a great article,well researched! I remember the Simon Bates radio 1 interview in early 1985,it was cancelled and put back a week or two because Freddie had been really ill.He looked great,but changed quite a bit by the Magic tour.I guess it must have been confirmed around early 87,as it all went a bit quiet on the Queen front until The Miracle was announced with no tour. |
| TheWorks84 15.04.2013 03:47 |
Very good work indeed. |
| brENsKi 15.04.2013 16:31 |
and regardless of what is established, proven about blisters, sarcomas, HIV and AIDs...there's only one indisputable fact that we ALL know about the whole saga Freddie remains dead |
| GratefulFan 15.04.2013 16:37 |
Remains are always dead. Duh. |
| HiMyNameIsEllie 23.06.2013 19:49 |
Isn't it ironic. . . "Each morning I get up I die a little can barely stand on my feet" The whole Somebody To Love song can be taken as foreshadowing. =( Oh, Farrokh... where ever you are... I hope you're pain free & singing your ass off! I wish I was alive when you graced this earth, I'd kill to see you in concert! You have been & will always be one of my favorites. <3 |
| AlexRocks 24.06.2013 15:20 |
Wow, that is bizarre and chilling. I also consider the cover of "News Of The World" to be shocking in its forshadowing as Freddie is the one killed by the giant robot! |
| Poppingjay 14.07.2013 16:32 |
It was my understanding that he abruptly left Munich because the tabloids were reporting that he was going to marry Barbara Valentin and he was sick of it. Also, if Jim is to be believed then this would also be about the time Jim told him to decide if he wanted to be in a monagomous relationship or not. Freddie ultimately chose Jim so this also fits into leaving Munich abruptly. Freddie knew he had Aids in April-ish of 1987 for sure. However, to my knowledge he had been continuously been tested for a couple of years before that, most likely due to the fact that many people close to him (lovers,friends) now had AIDS. Unfortunately, as stated before, it was difficult to get an accurate reading on an AIDS test until 1987. I believed it to be the general consensus of his friends that he contracted HIV in the very early 80s and most likely in New York--not that it matters, per se, but it fits into the progression/timeline for a person living with HIV in that time period. |
| Mr.Jingles 14.07.2013 18:38 |
From what I've read Freddie wasn't officially diagnosed with AIDS until spring of 1987 when he had a lump taken out and the results came back positive. However, a few years back 1985-1986 Freddie started assuming he contracted the virus when he heard that people he used to hang around (and quite possibly involved in a sexual relationship) had been diagnosed HIV positive. On the 'Days of Our Lives' documentary Jim Beach commented on how back then "Freddie preferred not to know", and therefore decided not to get tested. As far as where he got the virus from. It's been mostly implied that it was New York. Freddie had a group of friends back in those days (among them Paul Pretner) that used to frequent gay bars and bathhouses in NY. |
| stevendabudgie 10.08.2013 16:32 |
(Quote)I also remember reading about the lead singer of Erasure (I think it was him anyway, may have been Holly Johnson from Frankie GTH). He said that when he received a positive result for Aids he wasn't really surprised because he had been having a lot of unexplained minor illnesses in the weeks and months prior to his result. I reckon Freddie may have had a lot of colds or rashes or whatever that were annoying but went away quickly. This would have been enough to make him worry about having the disease.(Quote) Here is additional info: http://www.contactmusic.com/news/johnson-almost-died-after-hiv-diagnosis_11204 |
| AlexRocks 12.08.2013 12:42 |
I find it unlikely that he was able to live so many years without knowing and getting medical help. It was probably 1986 and 1985 at the earliest. Besides just because he did not want to know at some point did not mean that he was infected at that point. Though many people would say it was INCREDIBLY irresponsible to continue being sexually active if he was cogniscant of ANY possibility of having H.I.V. To the point of disturbing and some would say murderous. This is why it is so important to have the correct facts and not just carelessly misrepresent information or make implications about what happened when in terms of Freddie becoming infected. |
| jhqueenfan 27.08.2013 21:18 |
It's a very interesting post; I'm actually in line with scofflaw, and think that Freddie was infected in NYC sometime during the early 1980s, with the hot space period being the most likely. And guess what; so do most people; and considering that there were no treatments around he did very well; 1981/82-1991 is ten years, with half of that time being spent with full blown AIDS. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if not for all the reinfections that Freddie had, he might well still be alive! Remember there are people out there who have been living with the virus since 1978/79; before even Freddie was probably infected! It's not that much of a stretch of the imagination. That being said, Freddie is not here, and while I think he did know that he was at least HIV positive in 1985, I don't think that makes him as negligible as some may think, because in 1985, it was thought that most people who were infected with HIV would not develop AIDS (sort of like these little throat cancers that are in the news here in America; only a very small percentage of people with oral HPV infections actually get the throat cancer). It wasn't until the late 1980s when science realized that HIV was a nightmarish exception to that rule. That being said, as much as I love Freddie, I think he not only infected Hutton, but also his German lover before that and the postal worker he was with before that (towards the end of that relationship) and in turn was infected by godknowswho in New York. He really was the ultimate party animal. Such, as scofflaw said, were the Times. I also don't think Queen tours stopped because of insurance, simply because Brian or Rodger would have said so by now. Brian himself has said that Freddie knew what was coming and wanted to go out on top. I'm also sure that, by 1988/89, Freddie was simply not well enough for Wembley, and even if he had been, would he REALLY have wanted tabloids embarrassing him after playing in front of 60 or 70 thousand people? I really don't think so. Yet, I'm amazed by the studio work that was put out in that time, and I think innuendo is the band's best album. |
| bootlegger 29.08.2013 13:50 |
to Bo Rap//page 1 or 2 of this treat.,.freddie looks different at knebworth?as you were in front of the stage you must have noticed what happened in the audience??..don't tell us bullshit mate...!! After the 86 tour , Queen have taken options for 1988 , for two massive shows in Rotterdam kuipstadium. The management had contacted the Kuip for 2 show days. |
| bootlegger 29.08.2013 14:46 |
and he was a proffesional smoker?...i've met him a couple of times,..79,..82, 84, and several meetings during the 86 tour. ..didn't saw him smoking.he only took the sigarets a a sort of shyness. He never ever inhaled the smoke over his lungs. ..and btw...he was in tremendous condition the days we met in 86. I do have lots of pictures from our meetings..he don't have any marks or spots on his face or body..and he don't have any make up on the pics.. And about his bad voice during some occasions..remember the 79 tour??....i do have concerts in my collection were his voice is not in a ..very good shape... maybe he was already infected by then!!...it's easy to see a wolf behind every tree. |
| The Real Wizard 29.08.2013 18:55 |
bootlegger wrote: After the 86 tour , Queen have taken options for 1988 , for two massive shows in Rotterdam kuipstadium. The management had contacted the Kuip for 2 show days.That's quite the claim, as it calls the history of Mercury not wanting to tour into question. Do you have anything to support that with? |
| cmsdrums 30.08.2013 05:11 |
Do we know if he told Montserrat Caballe before he told the rest of the Queen guys? I know she has spoken of him telling her the news maybe during the Barcelona sessions, but apparently the band, whilst sensing something was wrong, weren't told by Freddie until sometime well into the The Miracle sessions? |
| musicland munich 03.09.2013 23:53 |
Montserrat Caballe was informed by Freddie in 87/88 that he had full blown Aids ( source M.Caballe) here : For 18 months during 1987 and 1988 they recorded together, and would greet each other with a kiss. Then, one day, Mercury recoiled as she opened her arms to embrace him. ‘I said, “Sorry, Freddie, I didn’t want to bother you.” He said, “No, no, I have to tell you. I am HIV-positive.” I said, “What does that mean?” I knew many people with HIV and they were well so I didn’t think it was a problem. ‘He said, “Well, in my case I have developed Aids and I don’t want you to catch anything.” And this part of the interview give us a little insight what Freddie belived...now that he had full blown AIDS it's dangerous and so was the time back then. I remember 1987 here in Germany was a campaign startet called " No Chance for AIDS" wich People alert to use condoms. Freddie himself get a prediction that he is hiv positive 1984 and this was confirmed with the newer test in 85.( one or at least the reason he left munich head over heel). David Wigg also confirms that he(Freddie) knew it since 1984. Mary Austin mentioned that Freddie knew about his HIV status for seven years. |
| stevendabudgie 17.09.2013 12:37 |
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| stevendabudgie 17.09.2013 12:41 |
link The Kaposi Sakoma on his left cheek (visible in the last filmed interview by the DoRo brothers) can be seen here: link this pictures was taken on Freddie's styay in Japan in late 1986. Thus, the beginning of full blown AIDS was 1986 maybe earlier |
| musicland munich 20.09.2013 01:31 |
link Is there an option for a higher resolution or a source like "The Sun" or something ? Don't get me wrong but it could be a hoax/fake whatever you want to call it. I know pictures of that Japan trip, where he didn't have that stain on his cheek. |
| Holly2003 20.09.2013 01:45 |
The Queenzone ghoul squad have really surpassed themselves on this thread. |
| bowky 20.09.2013 20:34 |
I've lurked here for a while and I don't get the point of this thread. We all know Freddie died of an AIDS related illness, that was made clear in his press release (as we know, deliberately timed around of the time of his death). We also know Freddie was a very private person. We all went through the sadness of Freddie's passing which culminated in seeing RT and BM on TVam emploring us to turn away from the tabloid press that made Freddie's last years less nice than they could have been, because of the intrusion. And I also remember after Freddie died, because of his admission he died of an AIDS related illness (which he didn't have to do), people started talking honestly, openly (and willing to learn) about HIV, AIDS, safe sex, and sexuality. I'm so proud of Freddie for helping towards this. He has made such a sea change in our society which i freel proud of to this day. Surely we should be celebrating this, not the circumstances that led to his diagnosis and where anyone feels they "saw it first". Freddie gave us a gift and it is ours to pass it forward... in what ever way you feel comfortable with, right? Isn't that the best way of honouring his memory, rather than pondering over his private life. Isn't it... |
| bobbyo 21.09.2013 01:26 |
musicland munich wrote:Jesus Christ. Do you really need pictures, sorry HIGH RESOLUTION pictures of visible symptons of a terminal condition?linkIs there an option for a higher resolution or a source like "The Sun" or something ? Don't get me wrong but it could be a hoax/fake whatever you want to call it. I know pictures of that Japan trip, where he didn't have that stain on his cheek. |
| musicland munich 21.09.2013 03:18 |
bobbyo wrote:Please read all of my lines ! I expect this one to be fake ! That is the reason why I ask him !musicland munich wrote:Jesus Christ. Do you really need pictures, sorry HIGH RESOLUTION pictures of visible symptons of a terminal condition?linkIs there an option for a higher resolution or a source like "The Sun" or something ? Don't get me wrong but it could be a hoax/fake whatever you want to call it. I know pictures of that Japan trip, where he didn't have that stain on his cheek. |
| Mark_Glasgow 21.09.2013 07:35 |
Cant believe people are still talking about this. You will never know the real facts so all this speculation and guess work is irrelevant and will never be proven. And to be honest who cares. |
| M-train 21.09.2013 13:08 |
bootlegger wrote: and he was a proffesional smoker?...i've met him a couple of times,..79,..82, 84, and several meetings during the 86 tour. ..didn't saw him smoking.he only took the sigarets a a sort of shyness. He never ever inhaled the smoke over his lungs. ..and btw...he was in tremendous condition the days we met in 86. I do have lots of pictures from our meetings..he don't have any marks or spots on his face or body..and he don't have any make up on the pics.. And about his bad voice during some occasions..remember the 79 tour??....i do have concerts in my collection were his voice is not in a ..very good shape... maybe he was already infected by then!!...it's easy to see a wolf behind every tree.Could you share some of those pictures with us. I would really like to see them if you don't mind........thanks. |
| stevendabudgie 22.09.2013 10:15 |
@musicland: Why should the picture be fake? The fact that the lesion cannot be seen on other pictures from that trip can be explained: lighting, angle-- or simply Make- Up |
| SmokyQuartz 22.09.2013 18:14 |
I totally agree. I think there are some people that genuinely care and ask questions to try and process what happened to Freddie......but then others just want to chat about it because it serves their own ego to see such a talented person have problems. The tabloids are similar, they forget that there is a human being behind the story. :-( |
| SmokyQuartz 22.09.2013 18:15 |
That was in reply to Bowky on the previous page - sorry my quote function doesn't seem to be working tonight. |
| musicland munich 22.09.2013 19:59 |
until now...there is no source for this picture ...so |
| The Real Wizard 23.09.2013 10:10 |
bootlegger wrote: it's easy to see a wolf behind every tree.Well said. Maybe he had AIDS in 1976 because he had a few bad shows in Japan.. Seriously, we need to give this a rest. The truth is - we'll never know. The only person who knows when he was initially diagnosed is Freddie (well, and his doctors), and nobody knows when he was infected. Has everything about Queen been discussed at such length that people have been reduced to having a morbid curiosity about such unprovable details like this? |
| bowky 01.10.2013 18:18 |
In reply to SmokyQuartz and The Real Wizard and Mark_glasgow... Compeley agree too. I know everyone takes things in different ways, but this morbid approach just seems so wrong. What difference would knowing/seeing in such detail help anyone, anyway? Surely it's better to honour the legacy Freddie left us, by doing something better whenever we can by standing up to bigotry, hatred, and lack of understanding; by being the calm, educated knowledgable, and open people we are. For me, that's a way we can honour Freddie's legacacy every way, every day. Even away from Queenzone. Pulling apart someone's private life ain't right, and not what anyone should have to go through... alive or dead. It's not fandom, and it's not polite to me. I appreciate there has been a passage of time since Freddie died, and we're all looking for things to talk about and unify us, but what if we all put our energies into making things better and celebrating that, rather than raking over the past? Surely that would be a better legacy. And as Queen fans, shouldn't we should be the trailblasers for this? And in the inbetween... Well, we're all clever and interested people. I'm sure there is space here for a new take on the best song or gig, or if we want to get all headsy about it, lets look at the video's for example. I swear there is a thesis in "it's a hard life" video (one of my long time faves) as being the perfect allogary about being in difficult times/on the cusp of a relationship. I know its helped me through a few for a start lol. We could crowd write one for a start, easy peasy... And don't get me started on why we aren't croudsourcing the production of some of Fred's more magnificant (and generally wearable on a daily basis) stage costumes. We could restart a fashion trend... Anyhoo, don't want to hijack, but let's think about this; not pull apart a person who didn't ask, or want for it. |
| SmokyQuartz 03.10.2013 18:48 |
bowky wrote: Pulling apart someone's private life ain't right, and not what anyone should have to go through... alive or dead.Absolutely. |
| scwewywabbit 17.10.2013 12:48 |
bowky wrote: And I also remember after Freddie died, because of his admission he died of an AIDS related illness (which he didn't have to do), people started talking honestly, openly (and willing to learn) about HIV, AIDS, safe sex, and sexuality. I'm so proud of Freddie for helping towards this.I strongly disagree with this. From what I've read, Freddie Mercury had unprotected sex with hundreds of men each year for several years running. This is exactly the kind of reckless behavior that caused tens of thousands of homosexuals to die of AIDS during those years. This despite his full knowledge, at least since 1982-1983, of the potential dangers of this high-risk behavior. When I watched a clip of his 39th birthday party in Munich in 1985, I felt like throwing up in disgust. How many people caught HIV that very night I wonder. That's blood on Freddie's hands. Yet, whenever the name Freddie Mercury is mentioned, it is with those hushed tones usually reserved for the most gallant heroes. Freddie was no hero. He was a selfish brute whose wanton behavior led to his own death and most likely the deaths of countless others. |
| AlexRocks 17.10.2013 18:19 |
With all of THAT said I'm not sure the general public knew much about HIV and AIDS until more like 1985 or even as late as 1987, right? |
| AssDudeRule 18.10.2013 01:08 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Excellent detective work ! My question is - if Freddie was HIV positive in early 1986, then how did he manage to get health insurance for the Magic tour? This leads to many related questions that will most likely go unanswered.That might depend on the cover and claim ability's. Anything not related to HIV might still be covered. If it was for a tour that is for a small period of time, cover on some scenarios's might be granted. Also in line with when the cover will cease to exist. |
| SmokyQuartz 18.10.2013 18:52 |
AlexRocks wrote: With all of THAT said I'm not sure the general public knew much about HIV and AIDS until more like 1985 or even as late as 1987, right?The UK official campaign was 1987. After that people were scared even to use public toilets. Before that there were a few news reports, as I think people like Rock Hudson had died of it, but generally it was seen as a scare that might blow over and there wasn't that much coverage. Over time information changes, a bit like the game Chinese whispers. As I lived during that time I wrote some stuff to give a context on that time on a similar thread link although on that thread I thought the official campaign was 1985. It was actually later than that. |
| Missreclusive 18.11.2013 10:23 |
This vid of the show The Doctors claims Freddie was diagnosed in 87. Well, at least Freddie is given credit for being one of the most talented singer/songwriters of all time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_OFBR3R3Q |
| stevendabudgie 19.11.2013 06:01 |
I have watched the recent german docu "We are the Champions- 40 Jahre Queen". There were some remarkable statements. Peter Freestone said that Freddie was "more tired and irritable" during the Magic tour in 1986. It was also reported that Freddie knew at that time that a friend in Munich had died of AIDS. Another associate of Queen stated that "everyboy" had the feeling ("almost like a sixth sense") that Knebworth was going to be the last gig. Conclusion: Freddie alsready had some minor health issues in 1986 prior to the official confirmation a year later. |
| AlexRocks 19.11.2013 10:46 |
He could not have had HIV too long before being treated under most circumstances right? I mean like a year or two? I understand it takes ten and half months before it starts to show symptoms so he probably got it in 1986, 1985, or MAYBE 1984. I do think that there was a big mistake in the "These Are The Days Of Our Lives" documentary for people to say Freddie neglected to get checked while continuing to live his lifestyle for whatever period of time. No matter if it is true or not that is a very damning statement. Unfortunately this is one reason why Queen in particular Freddie are judged and looked upon so unfavorably by many people around the world. |
| FreddieCat 19.11.2013 13:58 |
AlexRocks wrote: Unfortunately this is one reason why Queen in particular Freddie are judged and looked upon so unfavorably by many people around the world.Huh? What world? Mars? Queen is one of the best loved bands in Earth world. Freddie's role as stellar frontman helped considerably to launch them into stardom. Also don't dismiss Queen's contribution to AIDS charity work, starting with Freddie's Time fundraiser with Cliff Richards in 1989 and the money raised by the remaining Queen members Tribute concert. |
| LilKing22 19.11.2013 17:31 |
scwewywabbit wrote:And you don't think every heterosexual rock star wasn't having sex with hundreds of women each year? As a straight male I find it inconceivable that we are in 2013 and there are people that think HIV/AIDS was spread by homosexuals. It was spread by everyone. Sexual preference has nothing to do with it.bowky wrote: And I also remember after Freddie died, because of his admission he died of an AIDS related illness (which he didn't have to do), people started talking honestly, openly (and willing to learn) about HIV, AIDS, safe sex, and sexuality. I'm so proud of Freddie for helping towards this.I strongly disagree with this. From what I've read, Freddie Mercury had unprotected sex with hundreds of men each year for several years running. This is exactly the kind of reckless behavior that caused tens of thousands of homosexuals to die of AIDS during those years. This despite his full knowledge, at least since 1982-1983, of the potential dangers of this high-risk behavior. When I watched a clip of his 39th birthday party in Munich in 1985, I felt like throwing up in disgust. How many people caught HIV that very night I wonder. That's blood on Freddie's hands. Yet, whenever the name Freddie Mercury is mentioned, it is with those hushed tones usually reserved for the most gallant heroes. Freddie was no hero. He was a selfish brute whose wanton behavior led to his own death and most likely the deaths of countless others. - Ryan |
| ZBGM0 20.12.2013 10:57 |
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| ZBGM0 20.12.2013 11:00 |
The Real Wizard wrote: The only person who knows when he was initially diagnosed is Freddie (well, and his doctors), and nobody knows when he was infected. I personally believe much more people know when he was diagnosed with AIDS. I don’t know how this is regulated in UK, but in 99 % developed countries, most medical diagnoses are always accumulated in some sort of archive (which is in many cases in the same building as hospital or it is separate in some other location). At least in our country this must be done by the law. And this documentation must be stored for many decades before they can destroy it (it can be 50 years), what is more, some documentation of diagnoses can never be destroyed – it must be permanent. Even if person dies, it still must be stored. Every person that works in archive has constant access to this documentation. I am telling this because I worked myself in archive and I could see all historical diagnoses for every person that has ever been in our hospital. I could see every medical condition from every person, even if the person was very important, it was still stored the same way. By coincidence I even found myself. I saw many things about people. Of course all this documentation is secret, but nobody really treat it like it is important or anything special – just bunch of boring papers. I assume Freddie’s documentation must be still in physical form, but there are many projects where archives try to transfer all physical documentation in digital. |
| SmokyQuartz 20.12.2013 14:26 |
The point is that this stuff is confidential and in my opinion that's the way it should remain. It's the one bit of privacy he had and still has and it should stay that way. |
| Mark_Glasgow 24.12.2013 15:49 |
Really...is this thread still going on lol.....you know what happened to Freddie, he died of AIDS....only a complete fucktard would want to discuss when he got it or when he got his diagnosis as you will never get the answer. I can only assume you've got fuck all going on in your own life to keep this shit up!! |
| Shvili 25.12.2013 16:38 |
During Wembley concert, Freddie splashed beer he was drinking on audience and 13 people dropped dead on the spot....in front of his eyes. That is when Freddie knew that he had AIDS. |
| brENsKi 26.12.2013 11:11 |
ZBGM0 wrote: I personally believe much more people know when he was diagnosed with AIDS. I am telling this because I worked myself in archive and I could see all historical diagnoses for every person that has ever been in our hospital. I could see every medicaland???????????? you have added absolutely nothing to a completely pointless thread. well done. your opinions are your own - but because YOU don't know the facts of this one particular case - and very few people ever will - your opinions are completely worthless. these topics are of no consequence whatsoever. do they change the legacy of music Freddie left us? NO do they somehow make it possible for him to be brought back to life? NO do they do anything - other than allow the morbidly-curious ambulance chasers of this forum to "jerk off" their own bullshit opinions and stupidly irrelevant hypothesis? NO why the fuck is anyone STILL discussing this shit? he's dead - you ain't bringing him back, and there's no worthwhile value in implying you know something that others don't. - especially when WE ALL know you don't - fact: the only people who do know anything relevant - have kept a dignified and confidential silence. the ignorami amongs us would do well to follow this example |
| ZBGM0 26.12.2013 12:20 |
brENsKi wrote: and???????????? you have added absolutely nothing to a completely pointless thread. well done. your opinions are your own - but because YOU don't know the facts of this one particular case - and very few people ever will - your opinions are completely worthless. these topics are of no consequence whatsoever. do they change the legacy of music Freddie left us? NO do they somehow make it possible for him to be brought back to life? NO do they do anything - other than allow the morbidly-curious ambulance chasers of this forum to "jerk off" their own bullshit opinions and stupidly irrelevant hypothesis? NO why the fuck is anyone STILL discussing this shit? he's dead - you ain't bringing him back, and there's no worthwhile value in implying you know something that others don't. - especially when WE ALL know you don't - fact: the only people who do know anything relevant - have kept a dignified and confidential silence. the ignorami amongs us would do well to follow this exampleWell, I didn't start this topic. I also don’t care for anything else but his music. I just answered a simple thing. Actually you are right. Next time I won’t participate is such threads. But if I read other stuff on this forum I can say that there are much worse and more idiotic topics like this. Not just topics but especially behavior of people who write and ask on this forum (not you). I am not very active member, but I read quite a few topics. Sometimes I ask myself if this forum is really about Queen or it is about ability how “one person insults another person”. This has nothing to do with you. It’s just general. |
| brENsKi 26.12.2013 16:20 |
there are no insults directed at you.^^^ if you care to re-read my post - you'll find ONLY the opening paragraph is for YOUR attention - and there are no insults contained therein...only facts the bulk of my post was directed at the f**king "rubberneckers" who loiter here. sick tw*ts the lot of them - offering unfounded "facts" on subjects that have nothing whatsoever to do with the music or the band itself. one final question: how would these nasty inadequate little c*nts feel if the illness/diagnosis/death of one of their close friends/relatives was dissected in this manner - over and over and over and over again? cosmic justice will ensure that these sad little people have some serious bad karma heading their way - i hope they're prepared |
| musicland munich 27.12.2013 00:06 |
Do you know what the "funny" thing is ??? Mary Austin mentioned the year when Freddie learned he is maybe HIV positive...and it's not 1987. Seems like everyone has forgotten about her little statement from the early 90's. |
| brENsKi 27.12.2013 07:28 |
musicland munich wrote: Do you know what the "funny" thing is ??? Mary Austin mentioned the year when Freddie learned he is maybe HIV positive...and it's not 1987.another non-fact. i rest my case. "maybe" is not a measurable fact - i "maybe" king of Ireland (i'm not) |
| Saint Jiub 27.12.2013 15:50 |
brENsKi wrote:linkmusicland munich wrote: Do you know what the "funny" thing is ??? Mary Austin mentioned the year when Freddie learned he is maybe HIV positive...and it's not 1987.another non-fact. i rest my case. "maybe" is not a measurable fact - i "maybe" king of Ireland (i'm not) In this interview from Nov 2011, Mary Austin mentions at about the 23 minute mark that Freddie knew on the last tour. another fact. i rest my case. |
| Al10579 07.01.2014 18:32 |
I think you,re ALL fucked in the head, you all sit here ang give your worthless 2 cents on when Freddie got sick and when he knew it, He DID have an HIV test in 1985 and it was clean, and you all sit here, basically tarnishing this man's memory and legacy by suggesting he knew he was positive and basically just kept fucking Jim Hutton without saying a word, just because the man says "I'm tired of touring" don't mean SHIT, have any of you lot lizards ever thought that just maybe Freddie was sick of touring by 1986??? like Jesus he'd been on the road for how many years world wide?? by then for about 15 years, I WILL NEVER BELIEVE THAT FREDDIE KNEW HE WAS SICK AND SAID "oh well fuck it, I'm still going to get my kicks" NEVER so all you fucking detectives with your bullshit theories and wild imaginations, take a long walk off a short peer |
| Lord Gaga 07.01.2014 19:20 |
Your expletive-filled invective changed my mind. Kudos! But seriously, the man lived to perform. There was nothing more he enjoyed than being in front of people, singing. If he was tired of touring, certainly it would have showed throughout the Magic Tour – but it didn't. |
| AlexRocks 05.02.2014 19:31 |
It may not have been the tour as much as it was Queen itself. It seems to me that they were ready to do things outside of the group perhaps permanently after "A Day At The Races". Wasn't 1977 when they all started working on solo music even though it all remains in the archives? |
| Lord Gaga 05.02.2014 20:47 |
Only Roger did anything solo in '77. Freddie and Brian didn't do anything solo until '83. And even then, there was no talk of breaking up the band to become solo stars; Roger did it out of frustration for having only one (or two) songs per album, and Brian and Freddie did it to explore other, less Queen-like avenues. All four always maintained that the whole was greater than the sum of the parts, and Freddie said something like how stupid it would be to form a new band at 40. |
| kdj2hot 05.02.2014 21:15 |
Wow you people have too much time on your hands. They made mediocre music in the mid 80s I don't break down fantasies about when Freddie found out he had AIDS |
| drmurph 06.02.2014 04:33 |
Lord Gaga wrote: Only Roger did anything solo in '77. Freddie and Brian didn't do anything solo until '83. And even then, there was no talk of breaking up the band to become solo stars; Roger did it out of frustration for having only one (or two) songs per album, and Brian and Freddie did it to explore other, less Queen-like avenues. All four always maintained that the whole was greater than the sum of the parts, and Freddie said something like how stupid it would be to form a new band at 40.Ironic Brian wanting to explore less Queen-like adventures, of all the solo work his was the most Queen-like. |
| brENsKi 06.02.2014 13:16 |
It's hardly f*cking astounding is it that there's never been a cure for cancer, aids, and half the other known illnesses which are responsible for millions of deaths, because these f*cking doctors/experts and scientists appear to be lurking around QZone spouting sh*t - rather than doing the jobs they're paid to do. :-) |
| AlexRocks 06.02.2014 15:03 |
Just because they said those things in public does not mean that they meant them. I would point to the interview with Freddie on the music home video d.v.d. "On Fire: At The Bowl" where Freddie seems rather discontent in some ways if not hinting he's had enough of Queen. I thought the three of them worked on solo songs in 1977, 1978, and 1979 did they not? |
| Caviar and Cigarettes 06.08.2014 13:07 |
This thread absolutely sucks. |
| RafaelS 06.08.2014 17:24 |
Caviar and Cigarettes wrote: This thread absolutely sucks.Just don't answer it, that's all. |
| Sicmot 14.09.2014 08:23 |
Freddie knew he had hiv all the way back to -84. He had the first symptoms during 84-85 In munich with Barbara who described he might fall suddenly ill with no apparent reason, he had trush in his throat the called "the mushroom" that kept on coming and going at first untill it persisted. He had sudden cough attacks. His doctors voted against his performing in Live aid for having serious throat infection, the same thing that appeared in -84 first time. Barbara used to hide his KS spots prior his public appearances. Winnie died in Hospital where Barbara took him after he had lost his mind already and was deteoriating physically so he negletted on feeding his cat. |
| BradMay 14.09.2014 12:38 |
Sicmot wrote: Freddie knew he had hiv all the way back to -84.A lot of people will say that it's not true and that he got it at around the time of the "Magic Tour" however, during Live Aid you can see something under his arm (I believe it's his left arm) which is a bruise basically, so well... I'm not saying that it IS a symptom of HIV but in what other way would you get a big purple/black bruise there?... I think he knew around Live Aid, definitly. |
| Costa86 15.09.2014 04:22 |
Somebody shoot me, please. I feel guilty for feeding this kind of thing. |
| stevendabudgie 30.09.2014 15:02 |
@musicland munich there's another picture where a slight redding of the skin is visible on his cheek where the Kaposi stain is link |
| fofum 30.09.2014 16:40 |
Morbid bastards. Not fans at all. |
| Martin Packer 01.10.2014 01:38 |
That's actually a rather nice picture of Freddie. looking smug. :-) |
| musicland munich 01.10.2014 01:55 |
Yes, I've checked the Japan 86'pics a few month ago, they're legit. On some pics you can see it on some not. |
| RafaelS 01.10.2014 19:24 |
stevendabudgie wrote: @musicland munich there's another picture where a slight redding of the skin is visible on his cheek where the Kaposi stain is linkThat spot appeared early on and never really disapeared. It is truly visible in the Jukebox interview in 1987. |
| miraclesteinway 02.10.2014 07:37 |
In many ways it's pointless to keep thrashing through this topic again, because we'll all just talk ourselves round in circles, and it will never actually accomplish anything. What we know about HIV these days though is that it can be present in the body for a very long time before it presents the major symptoms. What we know about the first manifestations of the disease in the early 80s is that they were virulent, and in some cases caused sudden deaths if it attacked the brain or heart, perhaps causing a ruptured blood vessel, or it could cause a slow decline and then the sudden decline that most major illnesses present at the end. Some virologists attempted to track the rate at which the decline happened after infection, and in many cases it was very quick, although of course in others it wasn't. My guess is that Freddie had a strain, or Freddie's reaction to his infection was that it lay dormant for a while before becoming serious, and it's probable that he became infected some time between '78 and '85, most likely around '81 - '83. There has been some speculation that he knew by Live Aid that he wasn't in perfect health and even Brian May has questioned that he might have known by the Magic Tour that he wasn't going to be able to do another tour for health reasons (it's in the interview sections on the 2003 release). Whatever the case is, I think that because Freddie was in general very healthy - he ate well, was not over weight and kept active - his body was strong enough to keep things at bay even when he was fighting full blown AIDS. Peter Freestone says that by the time he was diagnosed, he had developed full-blown AIDS (which is a term less used today). Given that was early 1987, he may well have been infected for three to five years. I think at the time he was infected, there simply weren't the treatments available to fend off the illness without doing serious damage to, or killing the patient. The doctors had told him that he wouldn't see 1989, and that he went on to 1991 is a miracle under the circumstances. It's true that there are some people that were infected in the early 1980s who are still alive and well today, and it's really impossible for us to know why some people die and some people live. Think about other illnesses though - some people catch 'flu and take a heart attack, some people fully recover. I know of someone who was only 25 years old and in otherwise perfect health when he caught 'flu one Christmas, went to bed and didn't wake up again, just died suddenly. We can sit and wonder, and we can even say 'if only', but I guess there is no point. What's done is done, and we've been without him for 23 years - which is also quite a thought! My personal hope is that the band find another couple of songs that they had forgotten about that have a vocal as good as Let Me In Your Heart Again! |
| daaydo 22.10.2014 16:55 |
There's no way of knowing exactly when Freddie began to suspect that he had the disease, but I would assume that it was 1985 or 1986 at the latest, because we know that he was diagnosed in the spring of 1987. The first time we can see any signs of Freddie's illness (to my knowledge) is at Live Aid, where you can see a purplish mark underneath his upper right arm (right near his armpit). I'm not a doctor, and so maybe it was just a bruise, but it seems to me like a mark as a result of Kaposi's Sarcoma or something else related to AIDS. You usually live with HIV for up to 10 years before experiencing any AIDS-like symptoms, and if this was true for Freddie, he could have been infected as early as 1975 (although I don't know how likely that was.) But most definitely by the late 1970's or very early 1980's, I would think. It's so sad and frustrating that he couldn't have found out earlier to start treatment or been infected later. I miss him so much! |
| matt z 16.11.2014 05:40 |
It's an ABSOLUTE GREATEST fact that Freddie knew well before the Mr Bad Guy sessions. That's when he wrote Made In Heaven (an epitaph) and My Love Is Dangerous. He then proceeded to design the music video for it's a hard life with Brian bearing death upon him... just like the thread of BRIAN'S CURSE Get your facts straight. I don't wanna bring up old garbage. ... but . Trolling trolling trolling Though the streams are swollen Keep them doggies trollin', Rawhide |
| Hoopsie 16.11.2014 06:46 |
People just want to understand... A man who was almost universally loved contracts a widely misunderstood disease and dies way before his time. It is natural for people to want to understand what happened, and parsing every comment and scrutinizing every photograph is just some folks way of trying to sort through the facts and get to the jist of what happened. For other people this isn't necessary, but for others a discussion is a way to process our extreme feelings of loss and grief. Not knowing anything is more difficult to deal with than knowing all the facts, where presumably you could grieve and move on. IMO we are stuck in an endless "What if? When? Who?" loop that will/can never be resolved. I think it is remarkable that we still care enough to keep trying to understand after all this time. It is a testament to the level of love we still feel, IMO. I also think it reprehensible for people who did not experience first hand the lifestyles of the 70's and 80's to cast aspersions on the behaviors of the people who did. Times were different then and Freddie did nothing that thousands of other men and women, gay and straight, did at the time. He was single, he played around. So did I, so did everyone else. Those were the times in which we lived. |
| Hoopsie 16.11.2014 06:47 |
double post |
| scwewywabbit 18.01.2015 12:31 |
ZBGM0 wrote: As a straight male I find it inconceivable that we are in 2013 and there are people that think HIV/AIDS was spread by homosexuals. It was spread by everyone.Question: do you think that the chances of contracting HIV from vaginal sex and from anal sex are roughly equivalent? |
| The Real Wizard 18.01.2015 18:39 |
^ obviously yes. It just depends on who has the HIV - the man, the woman, or both. |
| brENsKi 18.01.2015 19:54 |
The Real Wizard wrote: ^ obviously yes. It just depends on who has the HIV - the man, the woman, or both.'cept where they "both" have HIV then there's no "contracting" - simply exchange and sharing of something they both already had :-) |
| luthorn 18.01.2015 22:26 |
Mary Austin said on the record that Freddie knew the Magic Tour was his last, because of his health, so FM must have known at the time he left Knebworth's stage that he had the virus. That's the upper limit August 1986. The lower limit, who knows, maybe 1985, maybe 1984. |
| The Real Wizard 18.01.2015 23:22 |
luthorn wrote: Mary Austin said on the record that Freddie knew the Magic Tour was his last, because of his health, so FM must have known at the time he left Knebworth's stage that he had the virus. That's the upper limit August 1986. The lower limit, who knows, maybe 1985, maybe 1984.June 1986 for sure. link When the band played in Munich (i.e. one of his old party capitals), Mercury was not in a good mood on stage. I'm sure many things clicked for him that night. |
| tomchristie22 19.01.2015 00:27 |
Nice job noticing that. That show's gonna be a very poignant listen, from now on. |
| musicland munich 19.01.2015 01:20 |
The Real Wizard wrote: June 1986 for sure. link When the band played in Munich (i.e. one of his old party capitals), Mercury was not in a good mood on stage. I'm sure many things clicked for him that night.I can "confirm" that the mortality -AIDS wise- in Munich's gay community was at it's peak around 85/86.... I've read an article about that and it mentioned that " the reaper was cleaning Munich's streets" because of AIDS back then. And I can also remember that around that time we were told about that disease in school. |
| The Real Wizard 19.01.2015 10:39 |
musicland munich wrote:Ding!The Real Wizard wrote: June 1986 for sure. link When the band played in Munich (i.e. one of his old party capitals), Mercury was not in a good mood on stage. I'm sure many things clicked for him that night.I can "confirm" that the mortality -AIDS wise- in Munich's gay community was at it's peak around 85/86.... I've read an article about that and it mentioned that " the reaper was cleaning Munich's streets" because of AIDS back then. And I can also remember that around that time we were told about that disease in school. |
| Gregsynth 19.01.2015 11:08 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Nice job noticing that. That show's gonna be a very poignant listen, from now on.Although when Freddie says "I'm gonna fuck off quietly" and it echos throughout the arena, it's pretty amusing! No doubt Freddie had a lot on his mind at that show - but he does loosen up during the acoustic portion! The second half of the show has some good performances! |
| Saint Jiub 19.01.2015 19:58 |
Panchgani wrote:brENsKi wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0171x1k In this interview from Nov 2011, Mary Austin mentions at about the 23 minute mark that Freddie knew on the last tour. another fact. i rest my case. ... From page 8 of this thread (see above)musicland munich wrote: Do you know what the "funny" thing is ??? Mary Austin mentioned the year when Freddie learned he is maybe HIV positive...and it's not 1987.... another non-fact. i rest my case. "maybe" is not a measurable fact - i "maybe" king of Ireland (i'm not) ... |
| luthorn 19.01.2015 21:30 |
The Game tour 83 shows, Hot Space tour 69 shows, The Works tour 46 shows, the Magic tour just 26 shows and in Europe only. why play only 26 shows if you are THE biggest band on the planet at the time and you can easily sell 50,000 to 100,000 tickets to a single show? They could have easily toured Japan and South America and made mountains of money given their popularity. The Magic tour started in June 1986. A Kind of Magic recorded between September 1985 and April 1986. Tour preparations and logistics probably take 3-6 months. I would say with a degree of certainty, Freddie knew/suspected he had HIV in Q41985-Q21986. the 1987 date is most likely when he found out he had FULL BLOWN AIDS. Life expectancy of a full blown patient was about 12-24 month's in the 1980s, hence The Miracle. Everyone in the known thought it was a Miracle Freddie was alive in May 1989, when album was released. Just my 2 cents. |
| Gregsynth 19.01.2015 22:14 |
Also the fact that he lasted long enough for Innuendo and the Made In Heaven tracks is a testament to his strength. Freddie was an amazing man. |
| Saint Jiub 19.01.2015 22:37 |
He definitely knew he was HIV positive prior to the start of the Magic Tour in June 1986. Per Mary Austin at the 23 minute mark of the 2011 BBC interview (see above link). "The last tour he knew and it was really hard work for him. Working through the emotional pain; Knowing it was going to be his last tour" ... Given that the tour was "really hard work for him", perhaps he was already experiencing early symptoms of AIDs during the Magic Tour??? |
| luthorn 19.01.2015 22:42 |
Panchgani wrote: He definitely knew he was HIV positive prior to the start of the Magic Tour in June 1986. Per Mary Austin at the 23 minute mark of the 2011 BBC interview (see above link). "The last tour he knew and it was really hard work for him. Working through the emotional pain; Knowing it was going to be his last tour" ... Given that the tour was "really hard work for him", perhaps he was already experiencing early symptoms of AIDs during the Magic Tour???Indeed. |
| miraclesteinway 21.01.2015 07:24 |
The Real Wizard - I've only just listened to that radio show now for the first time. Mary speaks very openly and candidly about Freddie, and in fact very well. She comes across as quite a strong person in a good way. I had always assumed that Freddie didn't know officially until 1987, when Jim Hutton mentions the small biopsy, and Peter mentions the time Freddie told him, but Mary talking about that he knew it on the Magic Tour really brings a little shadow over that for me. Now, actually, I have even more respect for Freddie, knowing that he was already coping with the knowledge that he was going to become very sick, yet going out and giving the fans - both those of you who were there and those of us who can only watch on recordings - a pretty amazing tour to go out on. It really must be hard for Mary, and others who were close to Freddie, and other celebrities who have died over the years. Most of us lose a relative or friend and we get to deal with it in private, we are allowed to get on with life without having to relive the sad details over and over again, but for posterity, a lot of Freddie's decline is captured on film - still and motion - and in each and every interview it must be relived. One other thing I've noticed. I can't think of another celebrity whose death has had this profound effect on everyone for so long after. Princess Diana was a storm in a teacup in hindsight - a lot of publicity at the time, but people don't talk about Diana as if she died yesterday. John Lennon became too much of a cult figure in a way, and became legend to the point where people don't seem to mourn his death so much as be in awe of the legend. Elvis is the same. Marilyn Monroe, again a similar thing. Michael Hutchence doesn't seem to be remembered all that much these days for whatever reason, certainly not to the same degree as Freddie. When people talk about Freddie's death, there is a real sense that people still can't believe that he has gone, and they still mourn the hole that he left behind, and it's almost 24 years after. Perhaps it's actually because Freddie seemed to come across in a way as the guy next door who happened to be a megastar. There was the extravagance of his stage persona, and the party animal, the one line quips etc, but at the end of the day, he seems to come across in interviews as this rather ordinary man with an extraordinary talent. |
| Costa86 21.01.2015 07:40 |
Did you guys not read last Sunday's News of the World? In it Freddie's mum Jer clearly stated that Freddie probably contracted HIV in 1944, from a pet chimp his dad has brought with him from Cameroon. She went on to say that he experienced the first symptoms in 1997, when he sung The Show Must Go On with Elton John in a Paris gay bar. |
| The Real Wizard 21.01.2015 10:09 |
miraclesteinway wrote: I had always assumed that Freddie didn't know officially until 1987, when Jim Hutton mentions the small biopsy, and Peter mentions the time Freddie told him, but Mary talking about that he knew it on the Magic Tour really brings a little shadow over that for me.So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death. Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will. Hutton writes tell-all book. Mary doesn't. And there are people who still wonder who Freddie loved and trusted the most, when all the signs are clearly there. |
| miraclesteinway 21.01.2015 10:13 |
I must say, I totally agree with you. I thought Jim was a little undignified in writing that book. I haven't read it, but the sections that I have read are like a tabloid - both in writing style and in content. I'm sure Jim was trying to be dignified and probably had noble motivation for writing the book, at least in part, but I can't help feeling that some of the reason was to get at Mary somehow and paint her in a bad light. It's fairly obvious that Freddie felt he trusted Mary more than anyone, without taking away from the fact that he loved Jim. After all, in the gay world, in fact in the straight world, you can have a best friend who you, in some ways or many, love and trust more than your partner. |
| miraclesteinway 21.01.2015 10:17 |
Let's not forget one thing though - at the time Freddie died, he probably thought Jim had months or at best a couple of years to live, so felt that the amount left to him was proportionate, whereas he probably thought Mary would reach old age. Well, Mary is still alive thankfully, but Jim (also thankfully) lasted another 18 years and if he didn't smoke would probably still be alive. There was no accounting for that in 1991 because then, to catch HIV was to get AIDS and die. Strange that there are many people who were infected at the same time as Freddie who are still alive today, and of course many many more who aren't. I guess it's just the luck of the draw isn't it. |
| The Real Wizard 21.01.2015 10:54 |
Great posts, man. |
| Costa86 21.01.2015 13:34 |
What kind of puzzles me is how Jim never knew about Freddie getting tested for HIV in 1985 and/or 1986, and receiving multiple results which showed he was HIV positive. What does that say about Freddie's relationship with him - that he would not tell him he was HIV positive, but only let him known in 1987 when he developed full-blown AIDS? Jim's book was a bit too revealing. I just finished reading Lesley-Ann Jones' biography of Freddie, and found it more dignified than Jim's (it's also a good read, because it includes numerous tidbits of misc info on rock bands of the day). The only person who gave sleazy details about Freddie in Jones' book was Barbara Valentin. So we have two people, Jim and Barbara, Freddie's lovers, who revealed things about him which Mary, his true love, would never reveal. |
| Martin Packer 21.01.2015 14:49 |
I felt at the time (1986) Freddie had a much more serious demeanour throughout the Magic Tour (and I was at Knebworth so some of that was direct). And my understanding of why is reinforced by this thread. |
| malicedoom 21.01.2015 15:07 |
For whatever reason, I've never considered Hutton's book sleazy or exploitative. But maybe that's just me. |
| tomchristie22 21.01.2015 17:39 |
The Real Wizard wrote: So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death. Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will.Didn't Mary say on that radio show that Freddie kept it from her for about a year, lying and saying he came up HIV negative? If so, where would that place her finding out in relation to Jim finding out? |
| luthorn 21.01.2015 17:58 |
tomchristie22 wrote:In the BBC documentary she clearly states that she knew Knebworth was last and also back stage she and Freddie exchanged glances, as if to state non-verbally 'it's over'. In theory, if she knew at the end of the concert, than we can assume she found out about the HIV status no later than the end of band playing God Save the Queen. If the statement about being lied to for 1 year is in fact correct then again Freddie knew, in theory, as early as August 1985. If she found out as the Magic Tour was being planned in early-mid 1986 then Freddie must have found out, in theory, Jan-June 1985. We could probably push it to mid 1984 if we tried.The Real Wizard wrote: So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death. Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will.Didn't Mary say on that radio show that Freddie kept it from her for about a year, lying and saying he came up HIV negative? If so, where would that place her finding out in relation to Jim finding out? |
| luthorn 21.01.2015 18:06 |
miraclesteinway wrote: Let's not forget one thing though - at the time Freddie died, he probably thought Jim had months or at best a couple of years to live, so felt that the amount left to him was proportionate, whereas he probably thought Mary would reach old age. Well, Mary is still alive thankfully, but Jim (also thankfully) lasted another 18 years and if he didn't smoke would probably still be alive. There was no accounting for that in 1991 because then, to catch HIV was to get AIDS and die. Strange that there are many people who were infected at the same time as Freddie who are still alive today, and of course many many more who aren't. I guess it's just the luck of the draw isn't it.We do not know when 'at the same time as Freddie' was. If he was infected in 1985, together with Jim, maybe he would have lived. If he was infected when he hit the New York gay scene in mid-late 1970s and 'slut himself', as he himself put it, than no, none of those people are alive today, aside from maybe 1 or 2 genetic freaks. Also, HIV has various strains that further mutate once present within one's body. The HIV in the kidney may be totally different than one in brain, due to mutation alone. Given Freddie was a slut, let's face it, he most likely slept with multiple HIV carriers not only trading various HIV strains, but also mutations within those strains from individuals he slept with. In other words, he was a walking cesspool of multiple mutations, which accelerated the demise. |
| miraclesteinway 22.01.2015 03:15 |
OK, we don't know exactly when Freddie was infected, but we do know that some of the people from the first wave epidemic are still here. The San Francisco Epidemic started to explode in 1981 according to the film 'We Were Here' which was made in 2011. In 2011, certainly, some of the people infected at that time were alive to give interviews. |
| Supersonic_Man89 22.01.2015 05:45 |
What i don't understand with the theory that Freddie KNEW before April 1987 is that he never told Jim, which i think is a horrible and selfish thing to do, and i don't believe Freddie would do that. In my opinion, if i had to guess during 1986 Freddie felt he may have it, but did not know for certain. It was just a feeling rather than any symptoms. |
| user1 22.01.2015 06:54 |
luthorns statement is right, I think. Peter Ambacher (famous as "Miss Piggy") stated in 2011: "Out of the 35 people around Winnie (Winfried Kirchberger), only 2 are still alive" link |
| The Real Wizard 22.01.2015 15:20 |
Supersonic_Man89 wrote: What i don't understand with the theory that Freddie KNEW before April 1987 is that he never told Jim, which i think is a horrible and selfish thing to do, and i don't believe Freddie would do that. In my opinion, if i had to guess during 1986 Freddie felt he may have it, but did not know for certain. It was just a feeling rather than any symptoms.That actually brings up an interesting and potentially gruesome point to the fore. So methinks the discussion should end here. We weren't there and don't know who knew what when, so before this descends into an abyss of some sort, let's call it a day and declare that we don't know and never will know certain things. |
| Ozz 22.01.2015 16:05 |
The Real Wizard wrote: So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death. Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will. Hutton writes tell-all book. Mary doesn't. And there are people who still wonder who Freddie loved and trusted the most, when all the signs are clearly there.You need to put things in perspective. In 1986, Freddie knew Jim for like a year. He probably had not a clue if he would be permanent in his life. He even though Jim would leave him after telling him about the AIDS. In the other hand, Mary has been a loyal friend for more than a decade. So that doesn't mean that he didn't loved or trusted Jim at the end. The circunstances in his relationship with both were different in 1986. Let's not fall in the whole denial about freddie's sexual inclinations, just because the whole Freddie-Mary thing is a comfortable tale. I can see why Jim put that book out. he probably felt pretty pissed about the place Mary gain after Freddie's death. He was human after all. Now let me make a bold statement (crazy theory). What if Freddie gave half of his fortune to Mary because.... her son (Freddie's godson) is really related to Freddie ? I tell you, that will explain a lot. And since we're having wild thoughts with the whole Don't try so hard video nonsense, I think there's space for this theory too. Now. In my opinion, Dave Clark has been the most loyal friend of his entourage. You can see him really caring for his friend during the video shoot of TATDOOL, and he was there when he died. But about Freddie's personal life, I think the most intriguing part is the part that Barbara Valentin played during the 80's. She must have been quite a character !. |
| luthorn 22.01.2015 16:37 |
Yeah Barbara must have been quite a cookie, since she was asked not to appear at Freddie's funeral. I wonder why? In any case, I believe it was her who indicate that Freddie quit Munich gay scene in 1985, never to return. Is that correct? I always thought Munich was a conservative and anti-non German peoples place; after all that's where Hitler got his start or maybe the real reason why Hitler went to Munich was because of a vibrant gay scene. who knows... |
| tomchristie22 22.01.2015 18:01 |
LOL. I think the sixty year gap between the Munich Beer Hall Putsch and Freddie getting in on Munich's gay scene was enough time for it to change at least a bit, socially. |
| musicland munich 23.01.2015 00:08 |
However "Adolf Schicklgruber" ( Adolf's former real name) ends up in this thred.... There is a quite a good reson why he kept his possible HIV status as a secret. In the early days of AIDS the doctors assumed that about 30 - 40 % of infected people will develop full blown AIDS..so as a human beeing Freddie might have tought he will be one the lucky guys....but the numbers changed in a dramatic manner year by year during the80's until they reached the 9X % mark... |
| The King Of Rhye 23.01.2015 06:15 |
Godwin's Law strikes again!!! |
| BETA215 23.01.2015 06:29 |
YAAAAY! |
| dmrinri 01.03.2015 19:15 |
I do think there were some physical changes in Freddie before Knebworth...a certain something that was vague at best. I cannot tell you how obsessively fascinated I am with him...I have been since I was first taken with him with the birth of MTV. It will probably sound freakish but I have always felt connected to him on a higher realm...never could quite understand it...On AIDS I think there was always suspicion and denial of equal proportions. It doesn't seem real that he is gone from this planet. I can truly feel the fear and horror he felt during this part of his life...I'm sure knowing that the careless behavior he engaged in...something no one knew, could have cut short his gifted life. I cry and ache for that still...almost 25 years later but like yesterday...miss you Freddie...wish our love could have saved you. |
| dmrinri 01.03.2015 20:58 |
I do think there were some physical changes in Freddie before Knebworth...a certain something that was vague at best. I cannot tell you how obsessively fascinated I am with him...I have been since I was first taken with him with the birth of MTV. It will probably sound freakish but I have always felt connected to him on a higher realm...never could quite understand it...On AIDS I think there was always suspicion and denial of equal proportions. It doesn't seem real that he is gone from this planet. I can truly feel the fear and horror he felt during this part of his life...I'm sure knowing that the careless behavior he engaged in...something no one knew, could have cut short his gifted life. I cry and ache for that still...almost 25 years later but like yesterday...miss you Freddie...wish our love could have saved you. |
| hachiman 27.11.2015 09:59 |
Could Freddie already have had AIDS during the tour in 86 or was it still HIV? |
| Biggus Dickus 27.11.2015 12:21 |
hachiman wrote: Could Freddie already have had AIDS during the tour in 86 or was it still HIV? Well he showed signs of Kaposi's sarcoma already in 1985. As far as I know KS is one of the AIDS-defining symptoms. I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think one's health goes from normal to bad like a flick of a switch when one goes from the HIV-stage to AIDS-stage. |
| The Real Wizard 27.11.2015 15:58 |
hachiman wrote: Could Freddie already have had AIDS during the tour in 86 or was it still HIV?That we don't know. But he did know the Magic tour would be his last. |
| Costa86 28.11.2015 14:54 |
Biggus Dickus wrote:Yes he might possibly have had KS in 1985, but the signs aren't clear, as spots in photos could have been anything.hachiman wrote: Could Freddie already have had AIDS during the tour in 86 or was it still HIV?Well he showed signs of Kaposi's sarcoma already in 1985. As far as I know KS is one of the AIDS-defining symptoms. I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think one's health goes from normal to bad like a flick of a switch when one goes from the HIV-stage to AIDS-stage. We know for sure he had AIDS by September '86 due to the KS on his face in the Japan/airport photos. So he most likely had it by the Magic Tour, yes. The thing is, the definition of AIDS, especially at the time, was somewhat sketchy. To what degree must your CD4 T-cell count fall before you have AIDS? Etc.... |
| Kuijpy 12.12.2015 13:15 |
In the WWTLF video, you can see some things that are very different on Fred since the beginning of the Magic Tour, his eyes, the look from it. |
| Biggus Dickus 12.12.2015 14:01 |
Costa86 wrote:Biggus Dickus wrote:Yes he might possibly have had KS in 1985, but the signs aren't clear, as spots in photos could have been anything. We know for sure he had AIDS by September '86 due to the KS on his face in the Japan/airport photos. So he most likely had it by the Magic Tour, yes. The thing is, the definition of AIDS, especially at the time, was somewhat sketchy. To what degree must your CD4 T-cell count fall before you have AIDS? Etc....hachiman wrote: Could Freddie already have had AIDS during the tour in 86 or was it still HIV?Well he showed signs of Kaposi's sarcoma already in 1985. As far as I know KS is one of the AIDS-defining symptoms. I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think one's health goes from normal to bad like a flick of a switch when one goes from the HIV-stage to AIDS-stage. Only saw this post now and I agree. |
| Biggus Dickus 13.12.2015 10:47 |
Those marks might be KS or not. He had the small one below the armband already in Rio so I doubt it was a bruise. It could be something else than KS of course. |
| sheldoncole 27.12.2016 11:25 |
In Jim Hutton's book and an interview he says Freddie was diagnosed with AIDS (not HIV) at Easter 1987, after a biopsy was performed. But Mary Austin in the BBC radio interview in 2011 said Freddie KNEW (NB not suspected) he was ill during the Magic tour in 1986. Who is correct please? |
| Costa86 27.12.2016 17:46 |
sheldoncole wrote: In Jim Hutton's book and an interview he says Freddie was diagnosed with AIDS (not HIV) at Easter 1987, after a biopsy was performed. But Mary Austin in the BBC radio interview in 2011 said Freddie KNEW (NB not suspected) he was ill during the Magic tour in 1986. Who is correct please?AIDS confirmed by biopsy of a lesion which proved to be KS, in 1987, after multiple HIV+ tests dating back to 1985. He "knew" in 1986 because of the HIV tests. The biopsy was meant to confirm progression of HIV to AIDS. |
| sheldoncole 04.01.2017 15:25 |
Thanks. My guess is that Freddie did not know he was HIV+ at Live Aid (he seems very joyous and carefree during that performance) but found out later that year, causing him to leave Munich suddenly and return to London. He therefore did the Magic Tour knowing he was ill and that it would be his last tour. His comments before Who Wants To Live Forever about Queen staying together until they f***ing well die are of course very telling as he was aware of his limited life expectancy by then. What I still find strange is that Jim Hutton apparently knew nothing until much later - April 1987 - when Freddie was told his illness had now progressed to AIDS. |
| mike hunt 04.01.2017 16:53 |
I think the test results came back negative In 85 and 86, and then positive in 87. He knew he had it On the Magic tour though. All his friends and lovers were dying, So yea, he and Mary knew the Magic tour was his last. Freddie still had that carefree personality in 85, with Mr Bad Guy and the video for living on my own and live Aid, so He must have felt something in 86. Then tested postive in 87, that's when you see a drastic change in his personality. A more mature, wiser and serious freddie In 88/89 with Barcelona and The Miracle. Still had his sense of humor. I'll always respect him for that. So ill, but still came up with the hilarious I'm going Slightly Mad. Love that song. |
| k-m 13.01.2017 18:44 |
Just listening to the "Queen On Air" interviews and there is one on disc 5 (84 or 85, not sure atm, would have to check) in which the interviewer gives an introduction stating how fit Freddie is, what a fitness freak he is and generally how well he looks... until he opens his mouth! And that's not a paraphrase, he means it literally, as then he describes quite graphically the state of Freddie's tongue and says "it's probably the most unhealthy thing you have ever seen". Jeez, immediately struck me as one of the signs of the looming drama. |
| Kuijpy 19.01.2017 08:06 |
It's sad to watch all his photo's from 1983 till 1991, You must concentrate on his eyes, eyes tell you everything.. My father said to me when I let him show Queen's pressphotos from The Works, Freddie didn't look not so healthy, so I laughed at him, but maybe he was right... |
| Costa86 19.01.2017 10:59 |
k-m wrote: Just listening to the "Queen On Air" interviews and there is one on disc 5 (84 or 85, not sure atm, would have to check) in which the interviewer gives an introduction stating how fit Freddie is, what a fitness freak he is and generally how well he looks... until he opens his mouth! And that's not a paraphrase, he means it literally, as then he describes quite graphically the state of Freddie's tongue and says "it's probably the most unhealthy thing you have ever seen". Jeez, immediately struck me as one of the signs of the looming drama.Because presumably the interiewer stayed peaking at Freddie's tongue every time he opened his mouth? How often do you even see someone else's tongue unless they're poking it out? He pokes it out in several pics and it looks ok. link When you are very active sexually, you pick up stuff every now and then. Most of it is treatable by antibiotics. |
| k-m 21.01.2017 21:20 |
Costa86 wrote:Well, I suspect one doesn't say "the most unhealthy thing you have ever seen" without a reason. You haven't been there and haven't chatted to Freddie on that day, so you can't just reject this story, because you saw some photos over the years and his tongue looked fine. I also remember reading in one of the books that he developed some nasty growth in that area, while still living in Munich, I think Barbara Valentin described it with reference to him becoming ill.k-m wrote: Just listening to the "Queen On Air" interviews and there is one on disc 5 (84 or 85, not sure atm, would have to check) in which the interviewer gives an introduction stating how fit Freddie is, what a fitness freak he is and generally how well he looks... until he opens his mouth! And that's not a paraphrase, he means it literally, as then he describes quite graphically the state of Freddie's tongue and says "it's probably the most unhealthy thing you have ever seen". Jeez, immediately struck me as one of the signs of the looming drama.Because presumably the interiewer stayed peaking at Freddie's tongue every time he opened his mouth? How often do you even see someone else's tongue unless they're poking it out? He pokes it out in several pics and it looks ok. link When you are very active sexually, you pick up stuff every now and then. Most of it is treatable by antibiotics. |
| AlexRocks 25.01.2017 15:25 |
Gross! Lol. |
| SmokyQuartz 26.01.2017 19:19 |
My nan and my uncle both had 'unhealthy' looking tongues before they died, nothing really gross, more of a white covering (but a bit more than healthy people sometimes get). I was told it was an imbalance causing overgrowth of candida. We may all have it but our bodies keep it in check usually. I heard that interview, and having lived in that time as well, I think the interviewer just noticed it, thought it looked unhealthy and thought he'd mention it because it showed that Freddie had been genuinely ill when he'd cancelled the earlier interview. I didn't get the impression he was thinking of AIDS at that point. it was still a bit too early. It might not seem it looking at the history and timelines, but for ordinary people (and I include Freddie and the interviewer in that) it was still perceived as something that could threaten us in the UK but was still remote at that time. |
| Costa86 26.01.2017 20:02 |
Oh God stop this fucking shit, please. |
| matt z 28.01.2017 14:33 |
fucking shit. ... and here we go with the Fudge-packing jokes. .... it never ends |
| NickGreen 23.03.2017 06:42 |
It is a subject thats been gone over and over, but with the right tone/ respect and all that i think it can be done tastefully & it is somewhat interesting..also adds to some context of the courage/strength of the guy. i thought id add this new insight - “It was during the U.S. leg of the tour that Freddie pursued his desire for gay sex in New York and on September 25th, while appearing on Saturday Night Live, he began exhibiting some symptoms associated with someone recently infected with HIV. In fact, he had secretly seen a doctor in the city some weeks earlier suffering from a white lesion on his tongue (likely to be hairy leukoplakia, one of the first signs of HIV infection) and this points to the period between 26th July and 13th August 1982 when Freddie contracted HIV during a break in the tour in New York.” |
| The Real Wizard 23.03.2017 16:00 |
The tour continued between those dates, but there were indeed two nights in New York (July 27/28). Interesting - where'd you find this? |
| Costa86 24.03.2017 04:47 |
I think this is from the book "Somebody to Love: The Life, Death and Legacy of Freddie Mercury" by Richards and Langthorne, published late 2016. Have it but never finished reading it. Felt that some stuff in it was not supported by hard facts or at least solid evidence. I think, given Freddie's promiscuity, it's really an exercise in futility trying to discern when he got HIV (leaving aside the fact that it's a very morbid topic). If he contracted it in 1982, I think this wouldn't really fit in with the 8-10 year latency period of the virus before AIDS develops (granted it can develop in much less time, but this is the average). We know he had AIDS by 1987, so that's only 5 years. It's certainly possible - especially since multiple exposures following the first exposure (likely I think, given his legendary sexual apetite) can lead to HIV super-infection, which would speed things up. Freddie was in New York in November 1978 on the Jazz Tour. He was also in New York in September 1980 on The Game Tour. He could just as likely have contracted it then. Just because he was treated for an infection in 1982 doesn't mean this was when he contracted HIV. For all we know he could have been treated for something similar in 1978 or 1980. But the likelihood is that he did indeed catch it in New York. Given what we know about the incubation period of HIV, if I were to hazard a guess, I'd go for 1978 or 1980, not 1982. I think the latency period is a surer way of speculating than treatment for an infection. And if he was indeed infected in 1978 or 1980, then this would even fit in with the infection of 1982. The author of the book also suggest that Freddie met with Gaetan Dugas, aka the infamous patient zero (but he wasn't really patient zero). There is absolutely no evidence for this, and for those with some knowledge of HIV/AIDS history, the claim is very outrageous. |
| The Real Wizard 24.03.2017 11:23 |
And I'm not really sure to what end all this is being discussed. It's not going to perform a resurrection, nor is it going to produce video footage of it happening. Not that we'd want that, I'd like to think. |
| matt z 24.03.2017 13:13 |
k-m wrote:HMM... interesting. ... perhaps this inspired Martin L Gore to write SHAKE THE DISEASE. ... (depeche mode)Costa86 wrote:Well, I suspect one doesn't say "the most unhealthy thing you have ever seen" without a reason. You haven't been there and haven't chatted to Freddie on that day, so you can't just reject this story, because you saw some photos over the years and his tongue looked fine. I also remember reading in one of the books that he developed some nasty growth in that area, while still living in Munich, I think Barbara Valentin described it with reference to him becoming ill.k-m wrote: Just listening to the "Queen On Air" interviews and there is one on disc 5 (84 or 85, not sure atm, would have to check) in which the interviewer gives an introduction stating how fit Freddie is, what a fitness freak he is and generally how well he looks... until he opens his mouth! And that's not a paraphrase, he means it literally, as then he describes quite graphically the state of Freddie's tongue and says "it's probably the most unhealthy thing you have ever seen". Jeez, immediately struck me as one of the signs of the looming drama.Because presumably the interiewer stayed peaking at Freddie's tongue every time he opened his mouth? How often do you even see someone else's tongue unless they're poking it out? He pokes it out in several pics and it looks ok. link When you are very active sexually, you pick up stuff every now and then. Most of it is treatable by antibiotics. |
| musicland munich 25.03.2017 01:37 |
Meanwhile I've gained some informations from the Munich gay scene - or better said what's left of it - There is only one survivor ( Peter Ambacher)left from his about 35 people sized party entourage. For quite a long time there was a second person, but he died last year. First time they've met was in a Munich gay bath while Freddie just had a towel around his hips. Freddie also- frequented the "Ochsengarten" wich is a Club for men - looking for quick rough Sex - and nothing else. Today they also offer free Wlan :) The scene was aware that there is something wrong with sick gay community members in the mid 80's and that AIDS was the reason for that. Mr. GrXXXXX ( I know his full name) mentioned that Freddie lowered his trips to Munich exactly when the reaper strikes the scene here. |
| Saint Jiub 25.03.2017 22:18 |
Exactly when did the reaper strike Munich? I assume it was some time in 1985 or 1986? |
| musicland munich 26.03.2017 01:10 |
double post |
| musicland munich 26.03.2017 01:14 |
Panchgani wrote: Exactly when did the reaper strike Munich? I assume it was some time in 1985 or 1986?The AIDS help desk Munich exsist since 1984 ! In 85'/86' the numbers of infected people were rising. The death toll also In 1985 every German household recieved an an official information brochure. I can't imagine that ALL of his friends missed that one...(see image below ) An official 87'AIDS info brochure stated that only 5 - 20 percent of infected people will develope full blown AIDS. That's the reason why good old Freddie was keeping quiet feet about his infection. Gambling ! |
| Moët Et Chandin 31.07.2017 07:28 |
Freddie was also in New York in January 1976, and March and December of 1977. He may have seroconverted on any of those occasions ( after a one night stand). 10 years is the mean average incubation. I doubt if he contracted HIV pre 1976, that would be an 11/12 years latency period which is stretching it a bit. I agree the episode in 1982 was not seroconversion, but was possibly an Epstein Barr viral infection caught during sexual activity, though unrelated, but not helped by being HIV positive at that time for at least 5 years. Freddie had already entered the late stage of HIV disease around the (8 year mark) in 84 and 85 with oral thrush and other minor symptoms in Munich, before the AIDS stage started proper at end of 86. |
| Moët Et Chandin 31.07.2017 14:27 |
Epstein Barr virus causes Hairy Leouplakia. Freddie had this infection (accompanied by other symptoms) in the summer of 82 in NY. The interview with Radio 1 took place in 84, when possibly oral thrush was evident. Freddie started playing the field in the States as early as 76. But he didn't start being overly promiscuous until I believe the following year. |
| AlexRocks 05.08.2017 18:31 |
Soooo when do you all think people were getting HIV if they were dying in 1981 from AIDS then? Here is newly bootlegged footage of Freddie getting HIV! link Wow! Shocking! That must have hurt...OR he did not feel it at all?! Oh, the confusion! Will we ever figure out these mysterious?! So everyone still feel pretty confident the other members did not get HIV, eh? |
| Moët Et Chandin 06.10.2017 07:24 |
Freddie was only living the lifestyle of many a succesful rock star in the 70s and early 80s before HIV was known about, regardless of sexual preference. Fate decreed that He was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time (NY 1977-83) |
| Invisible Woman 06.10.2017 09:53 |
It will never be clear to me why it's so important for some to "prove" that he Freddie was bisexual and why it's so important when he's infected. |
| c.jory 06.10.2017 11:05 |
Moët Et Chandin wrote: Epstein Barr virus causes Hairy Leouplakia. Freddie had this infection (accompanied by other symptoms) in the summer of 82 in NY. The interview with Radio 1 took place in 84, when possibly oral thrush was evident. Freddie started playing the field in the States as early as 76. But he didn't start being overly promiscuous until I believe the following year.This is from the Somebody to Love book, but if he really had this, you'd see it on his tongue in concerts and photos...and you don't. The book also claims he visited the doctor for this in New York. I have a hard time believing this because the source of this information was a barman who was a friend of Kenny Everett! This was after Freddie and Kenny had fallen out so why would a British barman from London know about Freddie's doctor's appointments in New York. I call bullshit on this. The oral thrush much later is a separate issue |
| c.jory 06.10.2017 11:10 |
Invisible Woman wrote: It will never be clear to me why it's so important for some to "prove" that he Freddie was bisexual and why it's so important when he's infected.I know right? But thanks to weird claims in the Somebody to Love book, it's got everyone thinking they're in the know about the exact date (even though that book is full of shite) and it kicked off the debates again last year. Also too much of this thread concentrates on the words of Barbara Valentin. Nothing the woman says about Freddie makes sense or fits with whatever his other close people say about him. So take her testament with a pinch of salt folks. She claimed to be banging him whilst symptomatic. Well...if that's true, then I am Freddie himself. |
| Moët Et Chandin 11.01.2018 19:33 |
I believe that the period between when Freddie contracted HIV and the onset of AIDS was slightly shorter than the average of ten years, because his numerous reinfect ions and lifestyle ( smoking, drugs, etc.) hasten the progress if the disease. If he was infected 10 years before he developed AIDS in 1987, then that means he was infected in 1977, however, as has been mentioned elsewhere, he was in a relationship with David Minns until 1978, and David was never infected. I put my money on infection in late 1978- New York ( 9 years). |
| Moët Et Chandin 11.01.2018 19:42 |
David was very lucky, as his lover had started to play the field in the US in 1977, and probably didn't finally contract HIV until the following year, whether from a first exposure, or after a few exposures, such is the nature of contraction. |
| NeverTooLate 08.03.2019 17:25 |
Jim Hutton, Peter Freestone, and Joe Fanelli, were each bequeathed 500K pounds by Freddie in 1991. That equals approximately $650K in U.S. dollars today, no small amount in 1991 by any measure. It was enough to allow each to buy a place to live and to not have to worry about working. Freddie's driver, Terry, was bequeathed 100K pounds. Mary was bequeathed 50 years use of Garden Lodge and half of Freddie's financial interests ongoing and his sister was bequeathed 25% and parents the other 25%. Freddie was generous and parsed out his fortune in ways that made sense to him. As we know, Joe Fanelli died of AIDS the following year, Dec 1992. Jim lived until Jan 1, 2010 and succumbed to lung cancer. Peter/Phoebe is still alive and well, as is Terry. *Everyone* in FM's inner circle has profited in some way through their association with Freddie, be it books, articles, consultation on a project, website, attention paid to their own past or current artistic or business ventures, or interest in their lives, whether intentional or unintentional. People are curious and curiosity about Freddie, his life, his work, his loves, his childhood...all of it...has created a lot of demand for more ways to quench the thirst for knowledge. And with interest comes opportunity. No one is pointing at Peter "Ratty" Hince's book as Queen's roadie and Freddie's attendant during concerts as a sellout. It would be disingenuous to say at the same time that an interest in making some $$$ is not also involved; it is. |
| Thewhitequeen1975 13.06.2019 03:59 |
I think we all just loved him so much and the more time passes and technology is developed we just wish things would have been different for him. Like watching the Titanic movie and wishing the ending will change. With him being so private back then we the fans missed out on how sweet, funny, loving, kind, loyal and vulnerable he was.?? Kelly ?? |
| nikilabiri 07.09.2019 03:07 |
I have one reasonable answer to someone who claimed that the first Marys son could be freddies son.its impossible cause then Mary and her son would have hiv too.Mary is lucky because some years after their breaking up freddie got hiv. |
| Adventureseeker 06.10.2019 00:15 |
An interesting - if morbid - thread. Lots of speculation that Freddie *knew* he had HIV / Aids during the 1986 Magic Tour. Personally I think he strongly suspected, but had not had conclusive medical proof by that stage because the tests were still too vague and sensitive. The defining moment came in Spring 1987, as we know, when a biopsy confirmed a KS lesion which conclusively signalled he had progressed to AIDS. However, working backwards from that diagnosis, we know that by summer '86 Freddie would have been suffering the symptoms of late-stage HIV infection - frequent night sweats, skin rashes, extreme fatigue, that kind of thing. Nothing overly dramatic but when all put together would have made him feel pretty rough, and enough to explain why, at the end of that tour, he told his bandmates he needed a timeout. He certainly knew something was badly wrong. When you look at videos of that tour, you can see how he's aged. I agree with those who say there is something almost indefinable about his appearance that makes him look unwell - a little paler, ever so slightly gaunt in the face. I'm fascinated by his appearance at Knebworth; a wild look in his eyes (he takes 'Another One Bites The Dust at about a hundred miles an hour!!). To me, it's a man who suspects this is his swansong, and he's going to enjoy it. Working backwards from 1986, and with HIV having a 7-to-10 year latency period, I think it's fair to surmise Freddie acquired HIV around 1980-82, when the epidemic was rampant in the US. Possibly before, but not much before. That would mean he was relatively healthy during 1982 / 83 / 84 / 85 before a slow, gradual decline from 1986 onwards. I know it's a morbid subject but if you're a Freddie fan - which we all are - it's sort of inevitable to be fascinated. And when you look at the quality of those performances on the Magic tour and beyond, knowing how sick he must have been feeling at the time - well, I think the word 'legend' hardly does him justice. |
| Seed_Of_Rhy 06.10.2019 08:10 |
Great Post and Great style of writing, thank you Adventureseeker! Yeah, one can notice that he was sweating more profusely in KoM/Live Magic tour than in any before. It's hard to say was it his illness or because of him pushing to the absolute max on stage. But many noticed that strange look in his eyes: some moments - blank and vitreous and some - of wild and hellish happy. There was definitely something that circling through his mind during this shows. Som thoughts that were eating him...and not a good ones |
| doughnut 07.10.2019 11:21 |
Phoebe has said that Freddie did not feel any different during the magic tour other than a bit more tired . He had put this down to the much bigger stage. There is an interview where Freddie jokes about needing skates to get from one side to the other. I also think Freddie looked great during the magic tour , certainly not gaunt , in fact he appears to have gained some weight during that tour. |
