| Hangman_96 07.08.2011 12:22 |
I go here everyday and I see how many NATIVE English speakers (please pay attention that the operative word in my sentence is "native") make a bunch of mistakes in words, sentences. How's so? Why does it happen? People were born and live in English speaking countries ... and they're forgetting their native language? English isn't my native language, but I wonder why does it bother me? And such thing happens with native Russian speakers too. Russian is my native language (yes, the East side *and even more* of Ukraine speaks Russian for damn reason while it must be Ukrainian, right?) and everyday I meet bunch of adult people, who make awful mistakes. It's much better with Ukrainian though. I don't remember to meet anyone talking Ukrainian with any mistakes, at least a bunch of mistakes. I sometimes mock these bad Russian speakers as their mistakes are sometimes fucking idiotic... what can I do? I want to help them and tell them how to write all these words right. So what do you think about that all guys? Does it annoy you too? Do you try to help these people? |
| queenUSA 07.08.2011 12:55 |
I'm no Shakespeare, but I greatly prefer something in the spectrum of "let me air my opinion." Is there truly any transgression so completely terrible that justifies the dropping of the F-bomb on QZ? |
| The Real Wizard 07.08.2011 15:48 |
Indeed, plenty of people who speak English as their native language don't understand punctuation or the difference between to/too, there/their/they're, weather/whether, and so on. There are plenty of possible causes for bad grammar, and here are the ones I've seen most often: a) laziness b) lack of education c) the part of the brain that connects spoken language to written language isn't fully developed Option C is a distant third. I'd say it boils down to B. The majority of intelligent people know how to formulate a written thought so that it is easily understandable by anyone who reads it. You're young. As you grow older, you'll likely associate less and less with people who have bad grammar. But unfortunately, people with bad grammar are in the world of business. These kinds of people may one day be your employer, and all you can do is grin and bear it ... and hope that their bad grammar doesn't cause you any problems with your job because something is "miscommunicated." |
| emrabt 07.08.2011 15:55 |
I'm guilty of this, mine would be because I post at 6 or 7 am after I get in from work, lack of sleep causes a lot of typos and laziness stops me proof reading. Then the post normally evolves through- out the day as i go back and edit the mistakes. |
| i-Fred 08.08.2011 00:12 |
So, in other words If you can't type or spell here in the most accurate form, you are less of a person?? Its only the people who are so anal about spelling ect ect complain about it,, |
| GratefulFan 08.08.2011 00:29 |
I've noticed that I've fallen into the habit of dropping entire words or groups of words from a lot of my writing. It's a bit hard to sort out how that happens cognitively, but happening it is. I think one of the reasons second language speakers/writers can outperform the natives - beyond their implicit motivation to master another language - is that it's often a formal learning process that teaches through drills and repetition and structure that not only rewards precision but insists on it. I can only speak about the education system here, but there has certainly been a strong shift away from that for students learning in their native English here in the last generation. Students rarely lose marks for spelling, and sentence structure is not much more important than that. My 16 year old son is not a good speller and his punctuation and sentence structure are weak, and yet he just passed the provincial standard literacy test required for all grade 10 students a little above the provincial average. It's pretty baffling, and I think a disservice to kids. More than once when I've been after him to proof and polish a written piece he's brushed me off by saying "It's not in the rubric". Teachers actively encourage reliance on spell checkers and the like as a part of new learning paradigms that purport to be freeing kids for much more vital cerebral pursuits. Add to that the proliferation and social norm of text speak and there is just little impetus for a lot of kids to care. If they're not perfectionists, or not strongly self motivated, or not prolific readers (where you'll know when a word is misspelled because it will just look weird), a lot of them are on the wrong end of a gap between themselves and some of their peers that grows every year. |
| thomasquinn 32989 08.08.2011 08:03 |
This tragic situation applies in all languages I am aware of, and I am familiar with written complaints about the terrible quality of the spoken (and written) word spanning the better part of 2500 years, and most of the planet. |
| Thistle 08.08.2011 08:09 |
I to haves a compliant to maik. |
| The Real Wizard 08.08.2011 11:48 |
i-Fred wrote: "So, in other words If you can't type or spell here in the most accurate form, you are less of a person??" Certainly not, since personal qualities exist on various levels. But you can bet your life that the overwhelming majority of people with strong linguistic skills go out of their way to avoid people who don't have them. It is a major statement about one's ability to communicate if they cannot put a sentence together. "Its only the people who are so anal about spelling ect ect complain about it,," Well, duh! How can one engage in a discussion about the quality of the written word if they can't recognize the difference between well-written and poorly-written word to begin with? |
| catqueen 08.08.2011 15:12 |
I find it really annoying when people use bad grammar and spelling -- although my spelling is far from perfect. It also bothers me in speech. :( |
| catqueen 08.08.2011 15:12 |
queenUSA wrote: Is there truly any transgression so completely terrible that justifies the dropping of the F-bomb on QZ? rofl such evils!!! |
| queenUSA 08.08.2011 20:28 |
^^ .... well, he did ask! Gled tu maik smyle u :) Thes fer u tu maik rofl: link |
| i-Fred 08.08.2011 20:58 |
Sir GH wrote: i-Fred wrote: "So, in other words If you can't type or spell here in the most accurate form, you are less of a person??" Certainly not, since personal qualities exist on various levels. But you can bet your life that the overwhelming majority of people with strong linguistic skills go out of their way to avoid people who don't have them. It is a major statement about one's ability to communicate if they cannot put a sentence together. "Its only the people who are so anal about spelling ect ect complain about it,," Well, duh! How can one engage in a discussion about the quality of the written word if they can't recognize the difference between well-written and poorly-written word to begin with? _____________________________________________________________________________________________ By no means am I going to disagree with the importance of spelling, sentence structers ect ect that you have mentioned. But I find that communication through text, is only so important. Granted this is a forum and it may be our only means of communication beyond that of being buddy's and having web cam's, but should one person not construct a sentence here to a standard that is respected, it should not take away any of there intergrity. There are many social skills in verbal communication that reach far our more than written text. There is so much more in face to face communication, verbal communication, tone, sound, speed, a snappy quick quit witted response.. and so on I dont think if some one here is lacking certain skills in "written word" that they are any less intellectual than some one who has great word skills. Some times, people who do have great "written word" skills, lack other skills..... some times......... +++++++++++++++ Well, duh! How can one engage in a discussion about the quality of the written word if they can't recognize the difference between well-written and poorly-written word to begin with? .... In speech, that is less important... You only need to say the word and you know what it means. If we have a chat and talk about the moon and the sun... I dont have to tell you I am talking about the SUN vs the SON. |
| catqueen 09.08.2011 05:03 |
i-Fred wrote: .... In speech, that is less important... You only need to say the word and you know what it means. If we have a chat and talk about the moon and the sun... I dont have to tell you I am talking about the SUN vs the SON. True, spelling is not important in speech, but grammar is. I hate poor grammar. I work with children, and I cringe when workmates use really bad grammar, cos it just teaches the children to say it wrong, and it does impact on how people perceive you. I mean, you will likely be able to do better in an interview if you can speak well, and it can make you seem more confident. |
| Hangman_96 10.08.2011 04:03 |
Thistleboy 1980 wrote: I to haves a compliant to maik. ====================== ROFL |
| Hangman_96 10.08.2011 04:12 |
i-Fred wrote: So, in other words If you can't type or spell here in the most accurate form, you are less of a person?? Its only the people who are so anal about spelling ect ect complain about it,, ========================================= I didn't want to hurt anyone. And I didn't mean that "you are less of a person". All I wanted to say is that much of people make mistakes now, and it pisses off to see that. It's always good to see when people write everything right, I'm glad to see good grammar, but bad grammar isn't that good. |
| Hangman_96 10.08.2011 04:28 |
By the way, I want to ask a question, silly question perhaps, but what version of the English language do you prefer? I've been learnt in school (although, I have reached that great form of English by my own efforts) to a classic version of English, the one that's being used in England. I prefer only that version. I don't like American words, for example, "favorite" instead of "favoUrite", "realiZe" instead of "realiSe", "program" instead of "programme", etc., etc. Also, American people pronounce "r" everywhere and they don't use Present Perfect much. I don't like that either. Don't kill me for that. I don't have anything against American version of English. I have just aired my opinion :-) |
| Hangman_96 10.08.2011 18:44 |
Hey hey, please don't make this topic die. Your posts are needed. |
| catqueen 13.08.2011 13:29 |
Lostman wrote: By the way, I want to ask a question, silly question perhaps, but what version of the English language do you prefer? I've been learnt in school (although, I have reached that great form of English by my own efforts) to a classic version of English, the one that's being used in England. I prefer only that version. I don't like American words, for example, "favorite" instead of "favoUrite", "realiZe" instead of "realiSe", "program" instead of "programme", etc., etc. Also, American people pronounce "r" everywhere and they don't use Present Perfect much. I don't like that either. Don't kill me for that. I don't have anything against American version of English. I have just aired my opinion :-) I like english english (british english), although i have a lot of american friends. |
| GratefulFan 14.08.2011 11:49 |
For the first time my son had the responsibility of running the entire sound and light system for the DJ company he works with (family friend) because the friend was actually in the wedding party. He developed song lists and various combinations and permutations and couldn't have been more dedicated or motivated to do a good job. Even with these optimal conditions he misspelled, among other things, the same song title three different times three different ways. That's got to be something with brain function, an inability to attend or store information short term. He's a smart kid, so intelligence is unlikely to play much of a part. Ontario's education system places at or near the top when compared to the rest of Canada and the world and it's got every advantage an education system can have. It's adequately funded in a first world nation, it's highly standardized yet allows for flexibility in delivery in the classroom, and it raises the bar for everybody though competition between French and English and Public and Catholic school boards. And yet my boy, who was read to daily for years from the time he was just a few weeks old, can't spell. It's a mystery. Word on the street is he did great job at the wedding though! :) |
| The Fairy King 19.08.2011 04:11 |
The board was pretty ok untill you came in trolling up the place. Stop spamming the boards with your horrible threads. Thanks. |
| Hangman_96 19.08.2011 05:38 |
The Fairy King wrote: The board was pretty ok untill you came in trolling up the place. Stop spamming the boards with your horrible threads. Thanks. ===================================================================== I haven't spammed any board yet. Or maybe any moderator should ban someone's trolling arse? |
| ParisNair 20.08.2011 06:19 |
I am not a native english speaker, but am fairly proficient at the language. However, there are days/times when I just can't form a proper sentence comfrotably while speaking in English while the local language flows just fine. Anyone else experienced it? I remember a teacher who once said "All of you knows....". I don't recall her English as being bad per se, but that one mistake somehow sounded so wierd. |
| The Real Wizard 20.08.2011 12:43 |
Of course, typos will happen. Nobody's going to condemn you for that ! At least, not anyone who is even somewhat proficient at the language. They can tell the difference between an honest mistake and grammatical buffoonery. |