Soundfreak 30.05.2011 13:15 |
When I see old shows of "Top of the Pops" from the early 70s most bands use slightly different playbacks, alternate takes or add live vocals for their TV performances. But - whenever an early Queen performance comes to light (see "Seven Seas of Rhye") it is synched with the regular studio recording. My question: Does anyone know, if the original tv sound was the same? I know of some TOTP clips from other acts, where the original broadcast offers live vocals and / or an alternate mix and was later dubbed for video and DVD with the regular studioversion because of the better stereo sound. Is "Good old fashioned Lover Boy" the only song, where Queen followed the "rules" of TOTP ? |
GinjaNinja 30.05.2011 14:18 |
I'm pretty sure that they did record a different version of SSOR for TOTP, but I assume that the video has been overdubbed with the album version. There might also have been no sound on the off-screen recording. |
GT 31.05.2011 01:22 |
There was a different version of the audio recorded for the first 'Seven Seas' appearance and the recently discovered 'Now I'm Here', as well as 'Loverboy'. |
KevoM 31.05.2011 04:59 |
I'm pretty sure in those days artists HAD to re-record a version for TOTP and not just mime to the released version. |
dysan 31.05.2011 05:16 |
There are all sorts of tales of the Musicians Union having the wool pulled over their eyes by band management when they were supposed to be recording new TOTPs versions for broadcast. Of course, the artist would perfer to have their proper version broadcast. The normal Seven Seas Of Rhye is present on the old Bootleg copies of the TOTP performance going back 10 years. |
A Word In Your Ear 31.05.2011 05:26 |
Queen TOTP appearences, as far as I know:- Seven Seas of Rhye x2 Killer Queen x2 Now I'm Here Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy Las Palabras de Amor We Will Rock You ( with 5 ) What other performances have members of Queen appeared on TOTP? Reaching Out (Brian) Resurrection (Brian) Future Management (Roger) Are there any more?????? |
inu-liger 31.05.2011 05:26 |
GT wrote: There was a different version of the audio recorded for the first 'Seven Seas' appearance and the recently discovered 'Now I'm Here', as well as 'Loverboy'."Now I'm Here" had a re-recording too?? Bloody hell, I'm just as interested to hear that one along with SSOR. Would you be able to at the very least describe the audible differences between the original studio album versions and the TOTP versions, even if they're minor? Would definitely go a long way in terms of informational usefulness :-) |
sbazb 31.05.2011 06:14 |
inu-liger wrote: "Now I'm Here" had a re-recording too?? Bloody hell, I'm just as interested to hear that one along with SSOR. Would you be able to at the very least describe the audible differences between the original studio album versions and the TOTP versions, even if they're minor? Would definitely go a long way in terms of informational usefulness :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The TOTP version of Now I'm Here sounds much like the re-recorded version of GOFLB does - a bit more raw, like a live take with minimal overdubs. It's very interesting! The only re-recorded versions for TOTP that I'm aware of are Now I'm Here and Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy. The version of GOFLB we all know from Greatest Video Hits DVD and now the Day at the Races Bonus EP, but the Now I'm Here clip was only recently rediscovered. A clip of the performance premiered at the Stormtroopers In Stilettos exhibition, but it has yet to appear on any TV broadcast or DVD/online release. Some camcorder footage of the screen at the exhibition is on YouTube, but with the original album version dubbed over the top - unfortunately, it was difficult to record actual audio from the footage as it wasn't broadcast over the general PA system into the exhibition room - you had to wear headphones that were linked to the TV monitors/laptops playing the footage...Anyway, check it out at link - even though the audio isn't the re-recorded version, it's still interesting footage - Brian not playing his Red Special. I seem to recall something that was said in the past about the TOTP performance of Seven Seas of Rhye along the lines of they were asked to record a new version to mime to but were unhappy with the result (or didn't have time to do it as the appearance was arranged at the last minute) so they sneaked the original version in without TOTPs knowledge.... Don't know how true that is and can't remember where I read it... but all the bootlegs certainly contain the original album version on the soundtrack, and the likelihood of those being overdubbed is minimal. Also, not sure if Killer Queen was mimed to a different recorded version, but subsequently had the original dubbed over the top, and this was the version that has been released on DVD and made available for TV compilation shows/documentaries?? Anyone have anymore info.... Really enjoyed the newly found clip of Killer Queen on the documentary on Sunday night. Never knew this had been found. Was that shown at the exhibition too? If so, I'm gutted I missed it!! |
GinjaNinja 31.05.2011 06:48 |
A Word In Your Ear wrote: Queen TOTP appearences, as far as I know:- Seven Seas of Rhye x2 Killer Queen x2 Now I'm Here Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy Las Palabras de Amor We Will Rock You ( with 5 ) What other performances have members of Queen appeared on TOTP? Reaching Out (Brian) Resurrection (Brian) Future Management (Roger) Are there any more?????? I think there are 3 SSOR performances, 3 Killer Queen ones and 2 of Now I'm Here. The extra Killer Queen and Now I'm Here performances could well have been on "45" on Granada though. There was also a different version of WATC for the TOTP video, featuring alternate guitar during the outro. |
KevoM 31.05.2011 06:51 |
You can say what you like about Dick Emery (I actually found him v funny way back in the early 70s!). But thank god he was narcissistic and like to record his own TV series ! |
sbazb 31.05.2011 07:00 |
KevoM wrote: You can say what you like about Dick Emery (I actually found him v funny way back in the early 70s!). But thank god he was narcissistic and like to record his own TV series ! ----------------------------------------- Do we actually know for sure where all the re-discovered footage actually comes from? Are they all from Dick Emery's archive (including Now I'm Here and the second version of Killer Queen)??? The only time I thought Dick Emery had been mentioned officially was in connection to one of the Seven Seas of Rhye performances (the one that looks quite streaky and is almost black and white).... Although, when Brian and Roger spoke about Dick Emery in a daytime TV interview last week it was juxtaposed with the a clip from the documentary which showed footage from the compilation version of SSOR@TOTP from the Stormtroopers In Stilettos exhibition (which is a mix of all three performances). Was that a mistake, or to be taken as confirmation that the footage of all three performances is sourced from Dick Emery's archive??? |
A Word In Your Ear 31.05.2011 07:09 |
I think there are 3 SSOR performances, 3 Killer Queen ones and 2 of Now I'm Here. The extra Killer Queen and Now I'm Here performances could well have been on "45" on Granada though. There was also a different version of WATC for the TOTP video, featuring alternate guitar during the outro. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks Ginja for the info :-) Yes I read the discussions regarding "Now I'm Here" being from "45" on Granada TV, but Simon Lupton in a interview said that it was from TOTP. But Saying that since Simon Lupton would have only been a baby, or not born at all around this time, he's only got the info himself on Hear Say, Greg B' maybe, so we can assume that they guessed. |
sbazb 31.05.2011 07:14 |
Yes I read the discussions regarding "Now I'm Here" being from "45" on Granada TV, but Simon Lupton in a interview said that it was from TOTP. But Saying that since Simon Lupton would have only been a baby, or not born at all around this time, he's only got the info himself on Hear Say, Greg B' maybe, so we can assume that they guessed. -------------------------------------------------------------- There was a discussion about this at the time of the exhibition and the conclusion arrived at was that it is definitely from Top of the Pops, not 45, as the background to the stage set is exactly the same as a surviving ABBA performance from the same TOTP episode. |
A Word In Your Ear 31.05.2011 07:56 |
sbazb wrote: There was a discussion about this at the time of the exhibition and the conclusion arrived at was that it is definitely from Top of the Pops, not 45, as the background to the stage set is exactly the same as a surviving ABBA performance from the same TOTP episode. __________________________________________________________________________________________ TOTP it is then, thanks for the info!! is that the same with the 3rd version of Killer Queen? |
sbazb 31.05.2011 08:02 |
A Word In Your Ear wrote: sbazb wrote: There was a discussion about this at the time of the exhibition and the conclusion arrived at was that it is definitely from Top of the Pops, not 45, as the background to the stage set is exactly the same as a surviving ABBA performance from the same TOTP episode. __________________________________________________________________________________________ TOTP it is then, thanks for the info!! is that the same with the 3rd version of Killer Queen? -------------------- Not sure about Killer Queen. Were there really three performances?? - Ok... wow.. Before the documentary on Sunday, I only thought there was one, now I want to see the full second version, and find out more about the third! Does anyone know the source of all the re-discovered footage for SSOR, NIH and KQ? Is it all from Dick Emery's archive, or a mix of different sources? |
sbazb 31.05.2011 08:04 |
Ahhh... just remembered that I have seen another version of a mimed performance of Killer Queen, but that's from a Dutch programme I think, not Top of the Pops (should be on YouTube somewhere, I don't think it's particularly rare or missing from the archives). Is that the third version we are talking about? EDIT: Here it is!! link |
A Word In Your Ear 31.05.2011 09:01 |
I think this version of "Killer Queen" was broadcast on Dutch TV, their version of "Top of the Pops" simply called "Top Pop" on the 22nd November 1974. I'm not sure if this is the version that Ginja refers to? |
GinjaNinja 31.05.2011 09:46 |
Yes, the Now I'm Here performance shown at the exhibition was from TOTP, but I'm sure I read in the same thread that the confusion had arisen because there was also a performance on "45" that they had, or something like that. I don't think that Top Pop performance would really count as the third. At the SiS exhibition Greg told me that all they were missing TOTP-wise was 2 Killer Queen performances. I would guess that the one shown in the new documentary is one of those that they managed to get hold of (possibly the one taped by Dick Emery?). I'll see if I can find what it said in that old thread. |
GinjaNinja 31.05.2011 09:52 |
Can't seem to find mention of a second Now I'm Here performance in the archives, must have been my mind playing tricks on me. Looks like GT or GB will have to come and clean up the mess I've made! |
sbazb 31.05.2011 10:07 |
GinjaNinja wrote: Yes, the Now I'm Here performance shown at the exhibition was from TOTP, but I'm sure I read in the same thread that the confusion had arisen because there was also a performance on "45" that they had, or something like that. I don't think that Top Pop performance would really count as the third. At the SiS exhibition Greg told me that all they were missing TOTP-wise was 2 Killer Queen performances. I would guess that the one shown in the new documentary is one of those that they managed to get hold of (possibly the one taped by Dick Emery?). I'll see if I can find what it said in that old thread. ------------------------ If Greg is sure that there were 2 missing performances of Killer Queen, and one of those is the new clip we saw in the documentary, are we sure that the remaining missing performance is a unique version? TOTP often repeated old performances.... The missing one may just be exactly the same as one of the ones we have. |
sbazb 31.05.2011 10:11 |
Also, do we have a list of Queen's appearances on "45". Never seen any of those - do they still exist anywhere (on the original tapes, or in private off-air recordings)? |
GinjaNinja 31.05.2011 10:37 |
Ah, this is what I was thinking of: Queen Archivist wrote: There are clips from BOTH. TOTP and from Granada's '45.That explains it. I interpreted this to mean that they had both performances in their archive. |
sbazb 31.05.2011 13:05 |
Thanks for the info! So... I went back and read the thread that Greg posted that comment in, so in summary, regarding early TOTP appearances, we can now say: SEVEN SEAS OF RHYE - All three performances exist as off-air home recordings of varying quailty. They are all present in the Queen archive, were shown in their entirety at the SiS exhibition and are available for future release. There is also a compilation version using parts of all three performances that was produced especially for the SiS exhibition. KILLER QUEEN - One performance exists on BBC master tape and has been released on DVD. Another exists as an off-air home recording which was recently re-discovered (since the SiS exhibition) and a clip has been released in the "Queen - Days of our lives" documentary. The full version of this is available for future release. A third version is still completely missing from the archives. NOW I'M HERE - Exists on BBC master tape (or maybe a one generation down copy in the Queen archive). Clips were shown at SiS exhibition and the full version is available for future release. Now I'm Here was also performed on "45" for Granada. It is unknown if this is in the archive or not or if Queen did any other performances for the show. Killer Queen was also performed on Dutch TV show "TopPop" and is available in the archive for future release, (although I would imagine that the footage can only be released in agreement with the Dutch programme makers, so a release isn't as clear cut as any of the UK based performances) Is this all correct? Do we know of any other TV appearances (mimed or otherwise) that Queen did to promote a single across the world in the early days? |
KevoM 31.05.2011 16:16 |
sbazb wrote: Thanks for the info! So... I went back and read the thread that Greg posted that comment in, so in summary, regarding early TOTP appearances, we can now say: SEVEN SEAS OF RHYE - All three performances exist as off-air home recordings of varying quailty. They are all present in the Queen archive, were shown in their entirety at the SiS exhibition and are available for future release. There is also a compilation version using parts of all three performances that was produced especially for the SiS exhibition. KILLER QUEEN - One performance exists on BBC master tape and has been released on DVD. Another exists as an off-air home recording which was recently re-discovered (since the SiS exhibition) and a clip has been released in the "Queen - Days of our lives" documentary. The full version of this is available for future release. A third version is still completely missing from the archives. NOW I'M HERE - Exists on BBC master tape (or maybe a one generation down copy in the Queen archive). Clips were shown at SiS exhibition and the full version is available for future release. Now I'm Here was also performed on "45" for Granada. It is unknown if this is in the archive or not or if Queen did any other performances for the show. Killer Queen was also performed on Dutch TV show "TopPop" and is available in the archive for future release, (although I would imagine that the footage can only be released in agreement with the Dutch programme makers, so a release isn't as clear cut as any of the UK based performances) Is this all correct? Do we know of any other TV appearances (mimed or otherwise) that Queen did to promote a single across the world in the early days? I don't think NOW I'M HERE exists on a BBC master tape, it was wiped. It was only recently discovered from a private collection and shown at SiS. I think the Dutch KQ is available on an official (non QP) DVD. Be also interesting to see what other non Queen stuff was found in these personal video tapes. |
GinjaNinja 31.05.2011 17:31 |
Right then, QPL say that the best quality copy of Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy (TOTP Version) is mono, and also has a fair amount of hiss. I've stumbled across this video: link The audio is in stereo (albeit fairly crude, with noticeable panning of the drums mostly on one side and the bass mostly on another). Judging by the clips just at the start and the end, I'd say the clip was probably broadcast on TOTP this side of 2000. This means that either QPL deemed the audio to be not as good as the mono copy, or they haven't had access to this source. Might it be worth contacting the BBC for this, Gary or Greg? EDIT: It might just be the fake stereo trick done on some old Beatles singles, having raised treble frequencies in one channel and raised bass frequencies in the other, I'll have to take a proper look! |
Wilki Amieva 01.06.2011 08:32 |
That YouTube video is indeed in pseudostereo (the user has several videos with the same trick). The BBC broadcast regulations insisted that all stereo content should be mono-compatible (it should downmix to mono with no stuff missing or audible artifacts), so most engineers just gave them mono mixes. |
Wilki Amieva 01.06.2011 09:33 |
Here's the original TOTP mix of SSOR. |
ole-the-first 01.06.2011 10:01 |
Wilki Amieva wrote: Here's the original TOTP mix of SSOR. ========= This link does not work :( |
sbazb 01.06.2011 11:56 |
Wilki Amieva wrote: Here's the original TOTP mix of SSOR. Please repost this link. When you download it, it is only 25kb in size. Thanks! |
GinjaNinja 01.06.2011 12:01 |
Wilki Amieva wrote: That YouTube video is indeed in pseudostereo (the user has several videos with the same trick). The BBC broadcast regulations insisted that all stereo content should be mono-compatible (it should downmix to mono with no stuff missing or audible artifacts), so most engineers just gave them mono mixes. Thanks for the info Wilki :) Did you get my PM? The attachment system on this site's a bit buggy, it just gives me a html file. |
sbazb 01.06.2011 12:05 |
KevoM wrote: I don't think NOW I'M HERE exists on a BBC master tape, it was wiped. It was only recently discovered from a private collection and shown at SiS. I think the Dutch KQ is available on an official (non QP) DVD. Be also interesting to see what other non Queen stuff was found in these personal video tapes. ________________________________________________________________ I took comments from Greg (copied below) to mean that Now I'm Here had been found in the archive. As he says, these things happen, and often whole programmes that were thought missing have been found in this way. "...it was a significant find in the archive. Not every tape in the vault is quite what it seems when it's eventually investigated, that's why it took so long to come to light. A similar thing happened in the Bob Marley archive I recall... archivists finding tapes containing things NOT noted on the box. These things happen.... especially when you're dealing with thousands of items, many undated and/or not written up properly." He doesn't use the words "personal video tapes" in connection the Now I'm Here. Although the phrase used ("tape in the vault"), could mean anything from original 2inch broadcast tape (or copy of the Queen section of the episode) to, admittedly, a personal home recording that had been donated. Also, I saw the clip at the SiS exhibition, and it seemed to be better quality than any of the SSOR clips that were from home recordings.... Hope Greg decide the visit the forum soon and give a definitive answer. |
ole-the-first 02.06.2011 09:56 |
So what's about SSOR from TOTP audio? Will anybody reupload this? If not, I'd like to trade for this recording... |