| Adam Baboolal 30.03.2011 23:10 |
Hey folks, I need some help in figuring out a studio equipment thingy. Help from peeps like Sebastian who have mountains of info on these type of things would be fab. Here goes... I'd like to find out what kind of mixing desk was used for the final mixdown per each album/song. But alas, this is very difficult info to find. Specifically, the following tracks: Life Is Real Too Much Love Will Kill You I Was Born To Love You (Queen ver) Made In Heaven The Show Must Go On It's a Hard Life Hammer To Fall Don't Stop Me Now Dear Friends Barcelona Save Me Love Me Like There's No Tomorrow and finally, Who Wants To Live Forever. I guess that there are a shed-load of Mountain Studio tracks listed above, but I'm not sure if the mixing console has always remained the same since Queen started using it. Possibly so. Anyway, as an example - Bohemian Rhapsody was likely finalised on a Trident Console. That's all I got! lol Any help would be excellent! I did find a picture of the Mountain Studios console here - link - I have seen that some say this was a predecessor of the Neve 8078 (shown here - link and true enough, it does have similar stylings. But I'm stumped and tired, so off to bed! Cheers, Adam. |
| Togg 31.03.2011 10:34 |
Blimey Adam that's a task... will be interesting to see if you find out For what it's worth that desk looks like a Soundcraft to me, but that is just a slightly educated guess sorry... |
| Adam Baboolal 31.03.2011 10:42 |
It's interesting that you say Soundcraft because one of the google'd things I found was saying that the newer mountain studios, which moved away from the casino, has a Soundcraft Ghost 64. Yes, this will be a very difficult task, I know. But, for peeps like me, this info would be very useful to know! Cheers! |
| Adam Baboolal 31.03.2011 22:16 |
I found this picture which shows the mountain studios desk in a much more natural looking way - link - link Bit of a smaller image, but still useful. Also, I looked throughout Soundcraft's site viewing all their older desks and found nothing that looked like the one in the picture. The only one that came close was their "Series 5" console which shared a lot of the look to the one in the pictures. But it's those blue-ish knobs above the 4 knobs in a line which I can't seem to match up in any way! Damn them! lol Anyway, again if anyone has some ideas, It would be most appreciated. Cheers! |
| john bodega 31.03.2011 23:22 |
I have an indistinct memory that they used a Trident A-Range at some point, and possibly a console by Harrison. Beyond that, I'm not so sure. |
| Adam Baboolal 01.04.2011 08:17 |
I have to admit, I wasn't sure if the Trident they used was an A or B version. Nice info there Zeb! |
| Sebastian 01.04.2011 10:04 |
Great topic, and one I'm very interested in. I haven't got mountains of info, but I'll do my best: Trident Studios were two (hence Studios): on one they had a Trident A- (of which, IIRC, only 13 were manufactured), and on two they'd got Sound Techniques. They may have used either one of them depending on their availability, the engineers' preferences and the studio they happened to be at the time. Trident Studios'-mixed material includes all the first three albums plus Rainbow, God Save the Queen and the Keep Yourself Alive retake (although its tape box has 'Mike Stone / SARM' written in front of engineer). Opera and Races were mixed at Sarm. According to the '95 SOS article, they'd got a Trident B- there. I'm a bit sceptic about that: while SOS is a wonderful and respectable publication, that particular article has several inaccuracies already; and while Roy was an excellent producer, he's not by any chance the most reliable eye-witness, let alone two decades later. So ... no idea. As Sarm hadn't opened in June '72, they're not included on the detailed Billboard list of link As for News of the World, liner notes don't specify a mixing location. If and only if they were mixed at both Wessex and Basing Street, then: Wessex had two Cadac's (one at each studio) since their restoration. Basing Street, back in the Chris Blackwell days (early 70's), were Helios clients, I don't know if they still were by '77. Jazz: Sessions began in Montreux, where they had a Neve since their foundation in 1975 up until around 1990. They finished at Super Bear, who were strong MCI endorsers (link. The Game: There was a Helios at Musicland during the 70's ... a lot of people wanted to use it since it'd been associated with the Rolling Stones. I don't know if by the time Queen went there it was still the in-house console. Flash Gordon: There was a Helios and an SSL B at the Townhouse. As for the other studios, your guess is as good as mine. Hot Space: Neve at Mountain, whatever they had (probably Helios although look at my note above) at Musicland. The Works: No idea about The Record Plant. At Musicland ... no idea either, TBBH. A Kind of Magic: Neve at Mountain, SSL E at the Townhouse (probably the same would be used later on for Barcelona, although at some point they updated it to G before or during The Miracle, which also overlaps a bit with Barcelona), no idea about Musicland (maybe the Making of One Vision film can give us a lead?), no idea about Sarm West or Maison Rouge. The Miracle: SSL G at Olympic, E at The Townhouse and Neve at Mountain. Innuendo: Neve at Mountain, E at The Townhouse (where the album was mastered, so maybe they mixed it there too, or at least partially), Metropolis had both SSL and Neve. Made in Heaven: SSL and Neve at Metropolis, where (IIRC) most of the mixing process was done. That also includes Back to the Light. |
| Adam Baboolal 01.04.2011 11:27 |
Wow! Seb, that is some damned impressive info you have there. That pretty much covers everything I needed to know. AWESOME! |
| xiao zhu 04.04.2011 02:25 |
link some little info about Sarm |
| Sebastian 04.04.2011 07:17 |
That article's VERY unreliable. |
| xiao zhu 04.04.2011 10:27 |
says who? |
| Sebastian 04.04.2011 11:20 |
The amount of mistakes it's got. |
| Adam Baboolal 04.04.2011 11:32 |
Sebastian wrote: The amount of mistakes it's got. LOL - But honestly, for folk like myself, what are the mistakes in that article? I know you touched upon some earlier in the thread. Not everyone's clued up on these mistakes. |
| Sebastian 04.04.2011 22:44 |
Several typos (Herefordshire, Alison, Scorpion), claiming Wessex was used for that song, recording the backing track in different parts (deflated by the multi-tracks), John using a Marshall rack, Geoff Workman being involved, Capital Radio being 'around the corner of Scorpion (sic) Studios (sic)', the De Lane Lea demos having been recorded in 1972 by Smile, Queen II having 'a lot of backward gongs' (is one a lot?)... Sure, compared to what a lot of YouTube idiots write, that article's pure Einstein + Oppenheimer but, compared to the quality standard that SOS tends to have, and compared to the quality standard such an article should have, it seems like an eight year-old's school assignment which is VERY inaccurate but gets 'A' for effort. |
| john bodega 05.04.2011 06:09 |
If you can trust Wikipedia, Musicland in Munich had a Harrison console which would've seen use by Queen, ELO and Giorgio Moroder. I've seen Queen (and some other names) boasted about in some of the ads for Harrison Mixbus, so I'm assuming it's not total guff. I did a lot of my beginner engineering on a Soundtracs Quartz (a really fun bit of gear), although these days I'm spending more time messing with a DCommand control surface. I wonder what they used on Cosmos Rocks? |
| Adam Baboolal 05.04.2011 07:39 |
Nice one Zeb. Yeah, does make me wonder what they used for Cosmos now you mention it. I hear Soundtracs are good desks. I still remember a guy from college who had a pretty awesome home setup and he had a Soundtracs desk. I forget what it was, but the pics of his setup were impressive. Puts my current home setup to shame! But it's the output that counts, eh?! :) In fact, I may have some stage output sometime soon... |
| scallyuk 05.04.2011 22:30 |
Have you tried contacting tiffany murray who's father parents owned Rockfield during the Nato sessions. She's on Facebook and I'm sure she'd be able to contribute to "serious questions. Her book Diamond star Halo is really good. |
| Adam Baboolal 05.04.2011 23:28 |
Tbh Scally, I was really looking for general info. No need for me to chase people up, etc. In fact, it's related to my Queen covers as the 'desk thing' is possibly going to fit in with mixing ideas. So, that was my main motive for this thread. But damn, there's some really nice info being brought out of people on the subject and well, I'm glad I asked now. :) Especially when I recognise the stuff the Queen lot used back in the day. |
| scallyuk 06.04.2011 07:06 |
no worries Adam (Damn I need to stop speaking australian and revert to my native scouse) I will mention it in passing next time I speak to her and see what she might have anyway. It woudl be good to add to the history Neil |
| Adam Baboolal 06.04.2011 07:44 |
Sounds good! |
| Sebastian 06.04.2011 08:02 |
Hey Neil, any chance you can get her to grant me an interview for my website? |
| Sebastian 06.04.2011 08:32 |
link |
| john bodega 07.04.2011 07:02 |
"Yeah, does make me wonder what they used for Cosmos now you mention it" Yeah - I vaguely recall there being a couple of studio pics out there (but not many, knowing how Brian likes his privacy and all) but that could be me misremembering something. For instance, they did it at Roger's even though for some reason I thought it might've been at Brian's. "I hear Soundtracs are good desks." The Quartz desk that I've been using for a couple of years at my college (was 48 channel, had a bunch of strips removed so that a computer monitor could sit between the master section and the patchbay) is a pretty solid thing, but is soon on the way out. The problem lies in the master section where the MIDI circuit is located. The thing is just going crazy - back in the day it supplied some pretty eye-opening automation (so the lecturers keep telling me) but nowadays with the ProTools setup, it's just not necessary. Nowadays it just sends bogus instructions and makes the desk (occasionally) impossible to use. We can't bypass the MIDI section either, so either some genius coughs up a new master section, or the desk is going bye-bye. |
| scallyuk 07.04.2011 08:08 |
slightly OT but Tiffany Murray has already had this link published |
| zodiac 11.04.2011 12:16 |
Don't know if this is of interest, but I have some information about The Works and Musicland Studios in Munich. A neighbour of mine was working in a studio which bought the mixing desk of Musicland in around 1992. So the mixing desk for It's A Hard Life and Hammer To Fall was most probably this one: Harrison 4832, 48 Channels Inline, 32 Busses, 4-Band full parametric Eqs, High/Lowpass Filter, special meter bridge, RTW sum meter Information including a small picture of the mixing desk here (in German): link More information could be given by the guys at baderstudios (there is a contact button in the above link). |
| Sebastian 11.04.2011 13:06 |
That's really wonderful. Thank you. |
| Adam Baboolal 11.04.2011 13:10 |
Nice work guys. Nice article too, Scally :) I'm enjoying this thread! Adam. |
| Sebastian 11.04.2011 14:22 |
I wish I could speak German... |
| zodiac 12.04.2011 02:26 |
Hi Sebastian, is there anything in particular you are interested in? I could try and ask the guys or try to translate things you did not understand. |
| leto 13.04.2011 04:53 |
A few years ago, because I was building my own studio, I emailed David Richards to know some information about the microphones he used to record Freddie. He kindly replied this : Hi Sebastien, Thanks for your kind e-mail. I used various microphones over the years, sometimes depending on the needs of the song, Also some singers sound better on a microphone than doesn't sound good on another singer.With Freddie in the earlier days I often used the AKG C414 or C12. Later on I tried the Schoeps CK1 in omni which sounded really good. Also the Shure SM85 was used for the last recordings because we did vocals in the control room with no headphones. Freddie was too sick to walk to the studio, The SM 85 is a condenser mic with the same back rejection characteristics as the famous SM58 stage mic. It never became really fashionable but I still love it and use it often. Another mic that's great for rock is the RE 20 by Electrovoice. Often used for Kick Drum, it is also good for Horn sections. I think it's a good idea to make a website for these kind of questions. I'm happy to share my knowledge and experience with anyone who's interested.. I'll put this on the studio website and see if anyone else asks some questions... Best regards David Richards Mountain Studios SASwitzerland |
| Sebastian 13.04.2011 08:59 |
Thank you very much for that. Did you have success with the studio? Are you a Gearslutz member? |
| mikeryde 13.04.2011 10:15 |
I can help shed some more light on the equipment used at Mountain Studios (Montreux): Mountain Studios (at least up to January 1990) used a Neve 8048 (with Necam automation) and recorded onto two Sony 3324 digital multitrack tape machines They also had two Studer A80 24 track analogue machines (one may have been the machine they had on display at the Stormtroopers exhibition recently) .* link Here are some pictures I took back in January 1990 of the desk and tape machine. I was lucky enough to have been given a tour by Andre Gauchant (the maintenance engineer for the studio.. also credited in Jazz) around the studio, hall and Casino complex. link link *Source:link |
| Sebastian 13.04.2011 11:31 |
Thanks. Hey Mikeryde - would you please look at my website and check for errors and omissions? I've corrected loads and loads but I'm sure there are many left. |
| Adam Baboolal 13.04.2011 20:37 |
Hey Seb, wanted to ask - have you taken most of your website down?? I was trying to check which type of piano was used for It's a Hard Life, but when I went back, the bookmarked page doesn't show up. I tried googling your site and it looks like an old revision. It's a completely different (inferior) design than the one I saw a week or so ago. Adam. P.s. again, seeing great things on this thread. The kind of info you don't normally get to talk about on this forum! EDIT: By the sound of it, I think it's some kind of Steinway. Am I right? |
| Sebastian 13.04.2011 23:12 |
It's all there: link AFAIK (though I'm not positive about it), both Musicland and the Record Plant housed Yamaha pianos but then again, they could've used Fred's Steinway. A good way would be to compare it with the live versions and see if they match. I suppose you have way better ears than I do, so feel free to correct any mistake you find. You're already on the credits anyway! |
| leto 14.04.2011 03:04 |
Sebastian wrote: Thank you very much for that. Did you have success with the studio? Are you a Gearslutz member? It's my pleasure :) Yes I'm a Gearslutz member but very rare :) My studio is located in south of France and it's named "La Cave Sonore". I can't say I have a huge success with the studio. I have sometimes young artists but I use it mainly for my own music with my band and to produce my solo material. :) I have the vintage AKG C414 EB, the same used by Freddie in One Vision. It's a fab microphone ! I have other microphones used by Queen according to David Richards. The website to see my studio material : link and a link yo listen and watch a song inspired by my last trip to Montreux ;) link Enjoy ! :) |
| Sebastian 14.04.2011 09:56 |
Wonderful. Do you happen to know about Super Bear Studios? I seem to remember reading somewhere they'd been founded by a pianist, and that they were lost in a fire or something. But threre's hardly anything about them on- or off-line. Unless, of course, there are sources in French, which I can't speak a single word of. |
| VB94 14.04.2011 13:57 |
Super Bear was used by Pink Floyd during the sessions for their The Wall album. There is an excellent book about the creation and the recording of that album called "Comfortably Numb-A History of The Wall". It includes a section dedicated to the "Recording Equipment" used. On this site, you can find some extracts from this book including a photo of the entrance of Super Bear Studios: link. You can also send the author of the book (Pink Floyd historian Vernon Fitch) an e-mail, maybe he can help you. |
| john bodega 17.04.2011 04:52 |
"So the mixing desk for It's A Hard Life and Hammer To Fall was most probably this one: Harrison 4832" Briefly looking at the One Vision studio footage, it does seem to look pretty much the same. |
| Sebastian 18.04.2011 22:07 |
I guess (rather than know) that after the success of Thriller, a lot of studios (Musicland included) started getting those consoles. |
| Sebastian 19.08.2011 10:33 |
Bumped. |
| Sebastian 21.12.2014 04:16 |
Bumped again. A lovely thread. |
| Mr.QueenFan 21.12.2014 19:55 |
scallyuk wrote: slightly OT but Tiffany Murray has already had this link publishedThis is a great article. Imagine the luck of the lady, hearing and watching Freddie perform "Boh Rhap" on the piano, and asking her if she likes the song! And it's a very interesting topic, at least for someone like me, who understands nothing about the technical aspects of recording music in a studio. |
| musicland munich 22.12.2014 00:04 |
Sebastian wrote: Bumped again. A lovely thread.Yes, it is ! |
| The Real Wizard 23.12.2014 01:16 |
link ^ this site claims that Ridge Farm's history begins in 1976. If that's true, then much of the documented Queen history of the ANATO sessions is flawed... |
| Sebastian 23.12.2014 02:02 |
That's certainly wrong and I've emailed them with the correct info (including photos from Queen in 1975). Phil told me he'd correct it (he said so over a year ago, mind) but he still hasn't. For 99% of the readers, there's not much difference between 1975 and 1976. I also sent them some photos of Queen at Scorpio. |
| The Real Wizard 23.12.2014 12:25 |
Never mind the year, ANATO isn't even on the list of albums recorded there. That's a pretty substantial oversight. |
| Sebastian 23.12.2014 15:11 |
Because they didn't record there at all. They just rehearsed, for both 'Opera' and 'Races,' but they did not record. |
| The Real Wizard 24.12.2014 01:22 |
Ooooh, got it. So then just the opening date is wrong. Still, that's pretty substantial from any historian's perspective. |
| Sebastian 24.12.2014 02:46 |
In fact, the opening could be right as well. Queen did rehearse there, but back then it was just a farm which they'd privately hired (that explains why they took the white piano there). It would become a proper studio in 1976, when the owners (whose son used to be Queen's lighting engineer at the time) realised it was more profitable to rent the space as a studio than as a dormitory for students. |
| The Real Wizard 26.12.2014 22:22 |
Yeah, that'd make sense. Either way, Queen's role in its beginnings definitely should be told in the first chapter of its history. |
| Sebastian 27.12.2014 02:07 |
Yeah... about twelve years ago I discussed that with the (then?) manager, she told me about it and a couple of years ago we got in touch again when I sent her some photos of the band there in '75, and I even said I'd visit the farm but haven't done it... yet! |
| musicland munich 21.05.2015 00:40 |
Harrison M3 desk, there is also an M2 and an M4 Model. Maybe someone with a good picture of the Musicland Console can check if the that model(s) fit/ match. Ta, sorry I missed page 2 |
| Togg 21.05.2015 06:23 |
Excellent thread, sorry nothing further I can add at this point, but keep it coming |
| Togg 21.05.2015 06:35 |
I will add this as a question... There is a wonderful documentary about Sound City in LA, where Fleetwood Mac recorded Rumours, there is a lot of discussion in that film about the desk which became almost legendary for it's warm sound. David Grohl recently purchased the desk and recorded a terrific album on in, very warm none digital sound. Do we think some of the early Queen sound was arrived at by the desks used? they certainly colour the sound to a degree, and you could argue that ANATO and ADATR sound very consistent, which obviously is down to Mike Stone, RTB and the bands recording technique at the time, however does some of that warm round tone come from the desk? Jazz is very different so I suspect they tried deliberatly to get away from the same feel, and The Game etc is pretty dry. To have the desk that recorded the major parts of Bo Rap would be a find for sure, I wonder what happened to it? OK I know it was done all over the place, but probably 70% was done on one desk? |
| Vocal harmony 21.05.2015 10:30 |
Yes the desk does have some effect on the recorded sound, especially when recording analogue. Togg you mentioned that you thought ANATO and ADATR sounded consistent. I have always found Oprea to be more brittle sounding in the top end, Races, to me, has an overall warmer less edgy sound. That Neve desk from sound City has so much history attached to it. I believe that the desk at Musicland, I know was the same make but, may have been the same model Rupert Neve went on to form Fucusrite, another desk favoured by Queen, a 72 channel focusrite is featured in the video for headlong. |
| Adam Baboolal 21.05.2015 18:52 |
Good to see this thread living on! I haven't re-read the thread, but, I believe both ANATO and ADATR were mixed on a Trident desk. From my minimal knowledge, the desk added an airy treble to the sound. I'm not sure I'd class it as having a warm, rounded tone, though. But still, nice. As for desks giving something to the sound, YES! It's the reason I started the thread in the first place. Mixing through a particular desk will shape the outcome rather interestingly. No two desks are alike, so, they add some character to the proceedings. Anyway, I was trying to find out what I could here, in this thread, in order to apply that info to some Queen covers. Couple that info with plugins like Slate Digital's VCC and you have part of the sonic recipe of a particular song. :) Anyway, discuss onward! |
| Vocal harmony 22.05.2015 08:44 |
^^^^ Hi Adam, I meant ADATR had a warmer more rounded sound compared to ANATO. I wouldn't say the difference is huge but is noticeable on BM's guitar and a lot of the vocals. I think the difference in desk sounds occurs as much during the recording as it does mixing. Steve Vai is on record as saying that his custom designed desk was built around the way certain elements within the desk sound. |
| Sebastian 11.12.2015 10:22 |
Bumped in case anyone wants to read it again and/or has new info to offer. |
| Togg 14.12.2015 05:01 |
Of course probably the most famous Queen track Bohemian Rhapsody was recorded on multiple desks at much the same time so the difference between desks is very subjective, Drums always sounded amazing recorded at Rockfield due to the room more than the desk, but instruments like guitar that dont require as much ambience will be affected more by the desk (IMO) The overall mixing of the album and 'that' desk must have the most impact on the final album sound. |
| Sebastian 25.10.2018 13:06 |
Bumped again, in case anyone cares to read it and/or has any new info to offer. |
| Chopin1995 25.10.2018 15:03 |
Sebastian wrote: (...) I even said I'd visit the farm but haven't done it... yet!So have you visited the Ridge Farm, Seb? Great thread. I have nothing to add to the discussion unfortunately. |
| Adam Baboolal 25.10.2018 15:22 |
@Togg "Of course probably the most famous Queen track Bohemian Rhapsody was recorded on multiple desks at much the same time so the difference between desks is very subjective, Drums always sounded amazing recorded at Rockfield due to the room more than the desk, but instruments like guitar that dont require as much ambience will be affected more by the desk (IMO) The overall mixing of an album and 'that' desk must have the most impact on the final album sound." I wouldn't argue a room wasn't important because it absolutely is! So, drums, vocals, even studio rooms, they matter. But, when it comes to an analog desk, they add to everything recorded/mixed through them. There is no question about that - they just do. I just want to balance the discussion about what a desk adds. In my experience, this is what I've found. Desks have very particular sounds and it can be demonstrated in the many different models out there. It's part of the reason software like Softube's Console 1 system have become popular. These emulations really give something to the overall sound. They affect the music in interesting ways, whether it's the crunch an SSL 4K can provide when driven, the clean, clean, clean(!) sound of the SSL9K or the smooth warmth a Neve provides. Record through one of these desks, mix through one, I guarantee they all add something. Watch the Sound City documentary (link and you'll hear the different albums made on that desk sharing a signature sound. No two desks built will sound exactly the same, which is why they are sometimes quite sought after. |
| Sebastian 14.08.2020 16:10 |
Bumped as well. |
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