QueenZone discussion #1259861
Hot Space
| Djdownsy 14.02.2011 23:24 |
Ok, im just putting this post up to hear peoples opinions on 'Hot Space'. Do you love it, or do you think its the nadir of their career? Is there a song you love but maybe something you despise on the album? I want peoples honest opinions on this. |
| rhyeking 15.02.2011 00:16 |
Oh, brother, you're about to rattle a hornet's nest that's been kicked repeatedly. Prepare for an onslaught of "like it" and 'hate it" posts. I like Hot Space. My humble opinion is that it's a better album than it gets credit for. It's a sincere effort, but the response it got would have you believe the recording of this album is right up there with running over puppies. The reasons people hate it are the abundance of disco-funk-synth-ness throughout and the lack of straight-up guitar rock. It's a common complaint too that Freddie was so influenced by the gay club scene that he let it influence his work too much between this album and Mr. Bad Guy. Really, though, Roger and John were just as much a party to the synth and funk sounds permeating this album, as they'd been dabbling in such styles outside of Queen as well (see Fun In Space, Hilary Hilary and Picking Up Sounds). Funky-disco-pop was a result New Wave, Disco and Dance music of the time and frankly a lot of their contemporaries were influenced by it. Bowie was between his Ashes To Ashes album and Let's Dance. Billy Squire's Emotions In Motion is another prime example. Both of these men were close to Queen, as was Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, who worked with Freddie in the early '80s too. Going back to Roger, he's been getting funky since 1977, with "Fight From The Inside," "I Wanna Testify" and "Turn On The TV," not to mention feeling the disco fever with "Fun It" long before John wrote "Another One Bites The Dust." No, Hot Space was not created in a vacuum. It was the product of many internal and external influences of the time in the form of music that was affecting many artists and bands of the period, and of interests dating back years. It was an approach they'd been nurturing for a long time and is the culmination of growing ideas, not a new direction happened upon spontaneously. I'm generalizing now, but it's a style of music many people don't like and they'll spend many posts trying to justify why Queen should never have committed to it so fully, rather than admit that its their taste in music that doesn't allow for them to accept it from Queen, or even like it. One of their favourite bands made an album they hated and it embarrasses their fandom sensibilities. I'll close by saying please don't take my previous generalization too seriously. I'm not saying anyone is wrong for not liking this album, it just gets outrageous how vehemently people try to justify it. |
| plumrach 15.02.2011 00:40 |
I am a fan of hot space, i like the fact that its different from other Queen albus as it shows they were not afraid to do diversfy from the norm and it did quite well in the album charts in the UK, got to number 4 so hardly a disaster |
| tcc 15.02.2011 01:33 |
I wonder what bonus tracks QPL would or should provide to entice people to buy the re-issue / remaster of this album. |
| Rick 15.02.2011 03:06 |
tcc wrote: I wonder what bonus tracks QPL would or should provide to entice people to buy the re-issue / remaster of this album. Obvious ones like Soul Brother, something from Milton Keynes probably and maybe even Feel Like. Don't expect any rare stuff. Maybe an acapella version of one of the HS songs. |
| master marathon runner 15.02.2011 03:25 |
Oh not again! Queen are brilliant. Queen are diverse. Hot Space was great because it was Queen. We accept it as part of the full Queen package. If anybody hates this album then perhaps they are not truly and fully sold on the Queen concept. . Master Marathon Runner |
| Benn 15.02.2011 03:40 |
I'm firmly of the opinion that Hot Space is one of Queen's better efforts. Obviously not in the first 5 album bracket, but certainly better than anything they managed to put out between 1983 & 1990. Hot Space suffers from poor mixing in my opinion - the whole thing is too thin sounding; Brian plays some exemplary rythm and lead parts but they are buried in amongst the synth and various other bits and pieces like electronic horn sections. Listening to any of the Hot Space songs that were given an airing on the live stage, always set me to wondering just how it was that the USA didn't pick up on it as being an album that was a realdeparture from ANYTHING any other rockband was doing at the time or had done before. It was the final example of Queen being dangerous and taking a big chance; after this they would become (and remain) record company executive's playthings charged with producing nothing more than singles that would make the top 10. Queen would never again regain their rock roots. |
| Cruella de Vil 15.02.2011 04:19 |
Just let the rhythms tickle your butt and groove baby! Funky horns, slinky bass lines, great marriage between r'n'b and rock on Back Chat, awesome guitar solo on Put Out the Fire, beautiful lyrics and chorus on Las Palabras, Under Pressure etc. OK, so there's Body Language but Innuendo has Delilah too! Just a fun album that gets hammered unnecessarily. Like Freddie siad "If you don't like it, fuckin go home!" Cheers |
| Sebastian 15.02.2011 06:09 |
There are no electronic horns on the album. Now, I personally think it's an OK album, but it could've been way way way better. And no, it's not a matter of style: there are loads of wonderful funk, disco and pop albums, Hot Space is NOT one of them. It's a matter of the band working at 10% of their abilities a lot of the time. Brian was not an expert pseudo-baroque composer, yet his 'Procession' is a wonderful effort. Brian was not an expert disco composer, and 'Dancer' is not that bad, yet the way it was recorded is annoyingly amateurish for four musicians of such calibre. It's, as I said, like the time Michael Jordan retired from basketball and played baseball for a while. A lot of people preferred his basketball career. Does it mean they hated baseball? For the most part, I'm sure they didn't. Does it mean they were rabid anti-White Socks fascists willing to pour salt on the eyes of anybody with a cap and a bat? For the most part, I'm sure they weren't. It simply means, for the most part (including Jordan himself, as he eventually returned to basketball), that they knew that when it came to baseball, he was average; when it came to basketball, he was arguably the best one ever. Same for Queen: when it comes to playing human bass, John's great and underrated; when it comes to programming synth bass, neither Roger nor Brian nor Freddie nor John are on a very high league. Same for Roger vs drum-machines, Brian's epic solos vs funky scat rhythm playing (which he admittedly had a lot of problems getting right), Freddie's beautiful piano playing vs amateurish synth pads... they were way outside their comfort zone, and THAT was the problem. Thriller, on the other hand, had a producer who lived and breathed those styles; a performer/composer who'd grown up with R&B and the like; several keyboardists who, unlike Freddie, were synthesiser experts; a slap bassist who had far far far more experience than John on that; several guitarists who'd been playing funky rhythms for years and had a much better grasp on the nuts and bolts of the related syncopations, scat, etc. Getting Ndugu Chancler to play Brighton Rock would've been an epic fail, as he was not used to that style. Same for Louis Johnson to play Save Me, for Greg Phillinganes to play the Bo Rhap piano or for Dean Parks to play Dead on Time or Tie Your Mother Down. People tend to be so divided by the Hot Space album, and a lot of them tend to pigeonhole each other. Not everybody who likes Hot Space is an arse-licking stepford who would get a multiple orgasm with anything the Queen members recorded; and not everybody who dislikes Hot Space is a bitter narrow-minded fascist willing to burn alive anybody who records a song that's not heavy metal. Some people dislike Hot Space because of the style. Some people dislike Hot Space because of homophobic traits. Some people dislike Hot Space because they think it's 'cool' to dislike it. Some people dislike Hot Space because they think live versions are far stronger. But some people have NO problem with the genre, NO problem with the style, NO problem with the alleged gayness (if there's such thing) of the music, NO problem with the producer, NO problem with the lack of distorted guitars (compared to Queen II, for instance), but STILL regard Hot Space as a sub-par effort for a band that could, and many times did, way way way better. |
| cmsdrums 15.02.2011 07:20 |
Some really good, well thought out and well explained sensible points made here. I like it - although it's not my favourite of theirs I prefer it to A Kind of Magic (even though that has more 'hit singles' and some great songs, it sounds very sterile to me, even more so that Hot Space). For me, Staying Power is great (thought could have had far greater dynamics and power), and I've always liked Dancer and think that that tracks actually succeeds far more than the rest in what they may have been looking to achieve. Hot Space is very much a product of its time - perhaps they did get sucked into thinking that sound was the way to go, and got influenced by the dance/disco/funk scene in the US at the time. Some very good songs, let down by the choice of arrangements and production (which was very unusual for Queen at that point). The one thing that surprises me is that the whole album is quite narrow sound and style wise - yes we have extremes from Body Language to Put Out The Fire, but somehow the difference between the styles doesn't stand out as much here as, say, between Seaside Rendevous and I'm In Love With My Car from ANATO. Everything seems to fit into a certain era sound wise, and doesn't seem to cover as much ground as you would expect a Queen album to. (whereas The Game, to me, still sounds contemporary as if it could have been recorded yesterday). However, I certainly don't look on it as a 'separate entity' to the rest of their catalogue like some people do. |
| FatBottomedKillerQueen 15.02.2011 16:13 |
Hot Space is one of my all time favorite Queen albums. It's sad that it received such negative press the first time around because I believe had it been released just a couple years later, it would have been a great success. And I agree with an earlier post that this album was not Queen's first "attempt" if you will, at making funk music. One of the things I love best about Queen is their ability to make all kinds of music...and make it well! |
| brENsKi 15.02.2011 16:22 |
master marathon runner wrote: Oh not again! Queen are brilliant. Queen are diverse. Hot Space was great because it was Queen. We accept it as part of the full Queen package. If anybody hates this album then perhaps they are not truly and fully sold on the Queen concept. .Master Marathon Runner ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ i hate it...and i was "sold on the original queen concept"....lonnnnnnnngggg before YOU were born (1974)....how dare you imply that anyone who isn't a f**king sychophant about every bit of sh*t that queen produce isn't a true fan..... imo - hot space, the works and akom suck...and blow sad fact is, that from after the game...until freddie was almost dying...queen did nothing really worth listening to... |
| ITSM 15.02.2011 18:58 |
FatBottomedKillerQueen wrote: "One of the things I love best about Queen is their ability to make all kinds of music...and make it well!" -Me too! I think Hot Space is a nice and funky album, with Cool Cat, Action This Day, Back Chat, Under Pressure and Staying Power. I enjoy the live versions even more, I think... |
| PrimeJiveUSA 15.02.2011 19:24 |
Everyone always slams on "Body Language"...to *me* it's one of the best songs on the album(along with "Staying Power" and "Under Pressure"). |
| rhyeking 15.02.2011 21:45 |
I believe 'True Fandom' is a fallacy. Expert knowledge of Queen does not make one a True Fan. (i.e. "I know every single they ever released worldwide! So there!") Longevity of appreciation of Queen does not make one a True Fan. (i.e. "I saw Queen in 1972! So there!") Nor does the more recent discovery of Queen make on a True Fan. Level of appreciation (from "hate" to "like" to "love") applied individually or collectively to Queen and related works does not make one a True Fan. ("I love album X, album Y is alright and everything after album Z is God-awful!") There is no such thing as a True Fan, because every fan is different and appreciates Queen for different, often very personal reasons. The fallacy lies in trying to quantify appreciation and use it as a yardstick for "who is more right.". Knowledge should be encouraged. Discussion should be fed. Different points of view should be celebrated. I'm reminded of the Supertramp lyrics from "Child Of Vision": "We have no reason to fight, cos we both know that we're right..." Just my opinion. |
| Cruella de Vil 15.02.2011 21:54 |
Here, here to the Rhyeking! Maybe a new career working for the United Nations is on order! Very well expressed and true. A band like Queen attract (and polarise) divergent opinions by the very diversity of their music. Therein too, lies the basis of their popularity, there is something in there for most tastes. The same illustrious support for the comment on the the 'biggest, 'better' or 'true fan'; nicely said! |
| Over the Field 16.02.2011 04:19 |
Hot Space is great! It is just different. |
| USQUEENFAN 16.02.2011 05:00 |
Every Iconic Band has tried an experiemental sound out of their signature sound if you will some got away with it Especially Rod Stewart and The Stones. Rather quickly i might add.. however queens record sales coupled with shiity label promotion by capitol wasnt a shadow of what was being sold at the beginning of the decade |
| mike hunt 16.02.2011 07:07 |
Another Hot space thread.....The most discussed album on queenzone. It's not the greatest, nor the worst album in the world. An inconsistent album for me, but has some good moments. Aside from under pressure it doesn't have any legendary moments either. The songs i don't like are dancer, body Language, Put out the fire, and calling all girls. The rest is either good or decent. |
| Shaving Foamasi 16.02.2011 08:12 |
Not that my opinion is of any importance to anyone but me but I like Hot Space. When it came out, I bought it and was taken aback at how different it was to anything Queen had done before. I stopped trying to get into it after a week or so, as I found it pretty weak and insipid. Consequently, I didn't play it for years. I even bought the 1990's remaster on CD but didn't listen to that either. A couple of years ago, I started listening to it and now it's probably my favourite 80's album by the band. It has a warmth that is lacking in the digitally produced albums that followed it and has more sincerity than the Queen album by numbers approach of The Works. As somebody else said here, it is the last time the band tried to do something new with their music. For me, the weakest songs are the more "traditional Queen" songs. My faves are all the first side (though I much prefer the 12" remix of Back Chat) and the wonderful Cool Cat. The rest just sounds like watered down Queen to me... |
| rhyeking 16.02.2011 08:32 |
mike hunt wrote: Another Hot space thread.....The most discussed album on queenzone. It's not the greatest, nor the worst album in the world. An inconsistent album for me, but has some good moments. Aside from under pressure it doesn't have any legendary moments either. The songs i don't like are dancer, body Language, Put out the fire, and calling all girls. The rest is either good or decent. ******* Funny how the great albums are hardly discussed past comments like "Queen II is awesome!" And something like Flash Gordon is practically ignored on the forums. Yet, as you rightly point out, Hot Space is possibly the most hotly debated album on here. 30 years on we're still analyzing and dissecting it. |
| Sebastian 16.02.2011 09:06 |
Which is great. What it couldn't achieve via musical quality, was balanced out by controversy. |
| splicksplack 16.02.2011 09:56 |
Only 4 out of 11 tracks are "dancey" 1 Staying Power 2 Dancer 3 Back Chat 4 Body Language (always thought this was influenced by Human League's Being Boiled) 5 Action This Day is a rock song 6 Put Out the Fire - a Brian rocker 7 Life Is Real is a balled at the same pace as It's A Hard Life 8 Calling All Girls is pop 9 Las Palabras de Amor is a typical harmony laden Queen epic 10 Cool Cat is almost jazz. I can imagine Manhattan Transfer doing a version 11 Under Pressure is rock What's not to like? As Fred said "People get so excited about these things". |
| Soundfreak 16.02.2011 10:03 |
splicksplack wrote: What's not to like? Looking to the list of those songs apart from the arrangements most songs themselves are pretty weak compared to what they wrote on earlier albums. There is nothing apart from "Under Pressure" that comes near the quality of former songs like "Somebody to Love" or rockers like "Now I'm here" or "It's late".... Looking back knowing what we know today "Hot Space" was an important step for the band to find out, that even for them there were some musical borders they could not cross successfully. Until then they thought they could do everything. I remember the Hot Space concert in Dortmund, where the few new songs sounded horrible and were greeted with an ice-cold reception. And after the show I left the building with the thought that this might be the beginning of the end. Usually bands only had 3 or 4 big years before it went down again.... So "Hot Space" is a strange and controversial album to this day and I can understand that even today people who discover it, are a bit confused. |
| splicksplack 16.02.2011 10:44 |
I agree it's confusing. I can't imagine a non-Queen fan picking it up and enjoying both Put Out The Fire and Body Language. Unles of course they have a broad taste base (which , unfortunately, not many do). I also agree the songs aren't that strong. |
| Band Forever 16.02.2011 14:16 |
I believe Hot Space was one of Freddie's strongest vocally. So a modern slant on some of the dancey tracks will give these songs new life, as the production overall could do with more work. Not Mack's fault technology and recording techniques not so complex. |
| Band Forever 16.02.2011 14:20 |
Those Horns on Staying Power were pile of shite and ruined the song imo. The Demo sounded much better and catchier. Btw loved the bass and drums on this track even though they were obviously synth. |
| rhyeking 16.02.2011 18:00 |
Slightly off topic, but here are a few rarities I'd expect to see on the Hot Space Deluxe Edition: Soul Brother (I know it's not that rare, but I see it being the first thing they'll go for, being a non-album B-Side) Cool Cat (Original Bowie Version) (Bowie may veto this, as he did 30 years ago, so 50/50 chance we'll it. It would be nice though) I Go Crazy (Original 1982 Instrumental Demo) (Apparently this has been played at a convention. I'd love to get an official copy.) There Must Be More To Life Than This (Queen Version) (It exists, according to the FM Solo Collection boxed set) Sex Show (Demo) (According to Brian's Queen Rock Montreal commentary, this was recorded around that time) Any other unreleased period demos would be fine, too, except maybe the ones already leaked. I know "Cool Cat" with Bowie is out there, but still, a good clean remastered copy would be nice. |
| tcc 16.02.2011 20:00 |
Re: Cool Cat with Bowie This track with Bowie caused the band so much trouble when Hot Space was about to be released. QPL cannot be bothered to do so many of their own productions such as Hammersmith 1975, 1979 etc, so I doubt they can be bothered to go through the trouble with Bowie again for a bonus track ! |
| rhyeking 16.02.2011 20:19 |
According to Freddie, the album was ready to go when Bowie called them up at the last minute and said not to use his vocals on that song because he didn't like them or wasn't happy about his performance. Either way, yes, it caused considerable headaches for everyone, having to re-mix the track, taking Bowie's parts out, and that delayed its release. You could be right, QP may not bother trying, but I'd think it would be little more than a phone call to the man asking his permission. The worst he could say is no, but who knows, he may have mellowed on it 30 years later. Bowie himself has been involved with issuing plenty of his own rarities and b-sides and demos over the years, so he's hardly stingy about that sort of thing. The situation is different now, too, as this version isn't being considered the album version, but an extra track, not meant to be taken too seriously. I'd hope he'd see that way and say yes. He has a good relationship with Queen still, allowing the Rah Mix and such to be issued with his name and vocals, plus he still performs "Under Pressure" live, so who knows? Maybe it's wishful thinking, but we'll find out eventually. |
| Sebastian 16.02.2011 21:55 |
Maybe what 30 years ago was 'unacceptable', today is 'more royalties = I'm in'. Not to mention that a lot of Bowie fans would buy the CD just for those BV's. |
| thomasquinn 32989 17.02.2011 00:26 |
splicksplack wrote: 10 Cool Cat is almost jazz. I can imagine Manhattan Transfer doing a version ==== I found most of what you wrote discutable, but this one is frankly insulting. No! "Cool Cat" is nothing like jazz. Nothing like *any* kind of jazz. "Bring Back That Leroy Brown" can, with an enormous dose of good will, be interpreted as dixieland. "Cool Cat" doesn't even *resemble* any style of jazz. |
| tcc 17.02.2011 03:47 |
ThomasQuinn wrote: splicksplack wrote: 10 Cool Cat is almost jazz. I can imagine Manhattan Transfer doing a version ==== I found most of what you wrote discutable, but this one is frankly insulting. No! "Cool Cat" is nothing like jazz. Nothing like *any* kind of jazz. "Bring Back That Leroy Brown" can, with an enormous dose of good will, be interpreted as dixieland. "Cool Cat" doesn't even *resemble* any style of jazz. Off-topic, can the song My Melancholy Blues be considered jazz ? |
| Soundfreak 17.02.2011 04:23 |
tcc wrote: Off-topic, can the song My Melancholy Blues be considered jazz ? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< definitely, if you play it in a nightclub in between jazz standards like "Girl from Ipanema" or "Lullaby of Birdland" it would fit perfectly. This song is more "Jazz" than anything on the "Jazz" - album....;-) |
| splicksplack 17.02.2011 05:52 |
ThomasQuinn wrote: splicksplack wrote: 10 Cool Cat is almost jazz. I can imagine Manhattan Transfer doing a version ==== I found most of what you wrote discutable, but this one is frankly insulting. No! "Cool Cat" is nothing like jazz. Nothing like *any* kind of jazz. "Bring Back That Leroy Brown" can, with an enormous dose of good will, be interpreted as dixieland. "Cool Cat" doesn't even *resemble* any style of jazz. Most of what anyone writes on here is "discutable". It is, after all, a discussion forum. And why is it "insulting". At worst inaccurate but "insulting"? Is that because you find jazz music somehow contemptible? Whatever, my opinion (and I have played valve trombone in a jazz dance band) is that it does sound vaguely lounge-jazz. How would you define it? |
| mike hunt 17.02.2011 07:02 |
Cool Cat is more Motown/funk.......Not Jazz at all..........one of the better songs on the album IMO. |
| splicksplack 17.02.2011 08:49 |
How about Jazz-funk? In retrospect, probably more funk than jazz. OK, maybe not jazz at all. Now, Tie Your Mother Down. That's Jazz .;) (sorry, been on the Jeyes fluid) |
| tcc 17.02.2011 09:07 |
splicksplack wrote: How about Jazz-funk? In retrospect, probably more funk than jazz. OK, maybe not jazz at all. Now, Tie Your Mother Down. That's Jazz .;) (sorry, been on the Jeyes fluid) Tie Your Mother Down is rock, definitely not jazz :-D |
| splicksplack 17.02.2011 09:38 |
I'm going to get on my computer tonight and do a mash-up of Forever Autumn by Justin Hayward, Hammer To Fall and some Cleo Laine. |
| PrimeJiveUSA 17.02.2011 17:31 |
Cool Cat w/Bowie is soooo much better, imo. Although Bowie's contribution is minimal "bum,bum,bum's"...it just creates a totally different mood. Freddie and David were a match made in heaven. A whole album of collaborations would have been something for the AGES! |
| rhyeking 17.02.2011 17:54 |
Even now, a new collaboration with Bowie, Brian and Roger would be pretty sweet. |
| bitesthedust 20.02.2011 05:37 |
Like Jazz, Hot Space is an album that could have been saved by better programming. Having bought the LP, I'd imagine a lot of people were put off listening to side b having listened to side a. As tempting as it is to place Soul Brother into the album proper, I'll stick with the 11 songs included. Something like this could have worked - Side A Put Out The Fire Life Is Real Dancer Calling All Girls Under Pressure Side B Staying Power Back Chat Body Language Action This Day Cool Cat Las Palabras De Amor |
| PrimeJiveUSA 20.02.2011 10:18 |
bitesthedust- WOW! That really IS a stunning change in sequence. Totally changes the feel of the album...it kinda eases the fans into the disco stuff by throwing them the first bone with a hard-rocker and a ballad. I LOVE "Staying Power" as the opener, though. To me, it's always been my favorite song on the album(as well as Under Pressure). |
| bitesthedust 20.02.2011 12:03 |
PrimeJiveUSA wrote: bitesthedust- WOW! That really IS a stunning change in sequence. Totally changes the feel of the album...it kinda eases the fans into the disco stuff by throwing them the first bone with a hard-rocker and a ballad. I LOVE "Staying Power" as the opener, though. To me, it's always been my favorite song on the album(as well as Under Pressure). For the intended disco effect of the album (or at least side a) then Staying Power is the obvious opening track, agreed. Personally, Back Chat is my favourite song on the album - after Under Pressure. Placing Under Pressure as the closing track always makes it feel like a bonus track, in my opinion. |
| PrimeJiveUSA 20.02.2011 13:25 |
Well, here in the U.S. "Under Pressure" was kind of a " bonus track". It had already been featured on the Greatest Hits album just 6 months before. "Back Chat" is really good ,too. Body Language is awesome, as well! But , personally, "Staying Power" is one of my all-time favorite songs. I'd rank it up there with "Don't Stop Me Now" as far Queen's best fun, upbeat songs. And I'm talking about the STUDIO version. Everybody seems to say they dislike the studio version but LOVE the live version. Not me. The live version doesn't hold a candle to the studio version. But that's the way it is with almost all of Queen's songs, imo. |
| maxpower 20.02.2011 15:54 |
I agree ref Under Pressure feeling like a bonus track I might try listening to it in that order some day |