| Over the Field 07.02.2011 09:44 |
Hi! The horn section in Staying Power has always been referred only to (hot and spacey) horns. Could somebody analyze the horn instruments of the section, please. (This one goes out of topic but is the sax solo in Action This Day synthesizer?) |
| Sebastian 08.02.2011 09:02 |
As far as I remember, the section's very simple, driven by parallel motions. Arif was a wonderful arranger, but this is something he probably did in fifteen minutes. It's like Usain Bolt running the 100 metres in half a minute: better than what the vast majority could achieve, but way below his own limits. Yes, Action This Day is a synth. |
| mooghead 08.02.2011 15:36 |
Queen + horn section = wrong :-( |
| Cruella de Vil 08.02.2011 18:45 |
What's song with a cleverly arranged horn section? Does no one here like to dance and have fun? I've performed this live with the said horn section a few times and when it all works the opposition between the horns, vocals and syth works a real treat! I think people need to accept Hot Space for what it was and either enjoy it or not play it all all, it's a free world after all. |
| JacquesDaniels 09.02.2011 08:05 |
Never thought of this before, but now the existence of "Body Language" makes sense to me. Freddie was probably originally thinking of a full-blown musical jazz version, something in the vein of Big Spender et al. Damn, that would've been great to hear. Queen with a proper horn section wouldn't have been such a bad idea after all... |
| KevoM 12.02.2011 18:27 |
Weren't they 'hot and spacey' and by Arif Mardin? |
| john bodega 13.02.2011 00:10 |
"What's song with a cleverly arranged horn section?" Nothing. It's just that there isn't one in Staying Power. |
| mike hunt 14.02.2011 02:46 |
Zebonka12 wrote: "What's song with a cleverly arranged horn section?" Nothing. It's just that there isn't one in Staying Power. or maybe you're just an old boring rocker who only likes one type of music. You know, the 'I only like loud guitars and drums' type of person. Boring.........I like artists who try different things. Go and listen to kiss or ACDC. |
| john bodega 14.02.2011 05:41 |
"or maybe you're just an old boring rocker" A). I'm not old B). I like an awful lot of music that contains horn or brass arrangements. |
| john bodega 14.02.2011 06:09 |
C). If the horns are so great, then why the hell is the live version so much better?? link |
| thomasquinn 32989 14.02.2011 07:05 |
CruellaDeVille wrote: What's song with a cleverly arranged horn section? Does no one here like to dance and have fun? I've performed this live with the said horn section a few times and when it all works the opposition between the horns, vocals and syth works a real treat! I think people need to accept Hot Space for what it was and either enjoy it or not play it all all, it's a free world after all. ==== Disliking something is also part of said freedom. I have every right to criticize the album, as I feel it represents a lack of inspiration and quite certainly a lack of effort - as Sebastian implied, the whole product would've been a decent effort if they were mediocre and under-talented, but it's frankly insulting coming from a band like Queen which not only could do better, but regularly did. All this is apart from considerations of taste - I am simply speaking of rushed, ill-considered arrangements and cutting corners, like the synth-bass. |
| Sebastian 14.02.2011 07:31 |
Standing ovation!!! |
| mike hunt 14.02.2011 10:46 |
I agree Hot space isn't On par with Queen's best, (not even close) but sometimes people think anything that isn't heavy rock or has a great guitar solo means it sucks. Staying power is one of the better tunes on HS, but i agree. How much better could this album have been with better production. I love the live version of these songs, staying power is only a little better live IMO. I also like the studio version, but 'action this day' is light years better live, so is Back Chat. |
| Sebastian 14.02.2011 11:02 |
>>> I agree Hot space isn't On par with Queen's best, (not even close) but sometimes people think anything that isn't heavy rock or has a great guitar solo means it sucks. And sometimes people think anyone who doesn't get an orgasm listening to Hot Space or My Baby Does Me is a person who thinks that anything that isn't heavy rock or has a great guitar solo sucks. Some people (narrow-mindedly, IMO) reject Hot Space because it's not heavy. But other people are unbiased enough to entertain the idea that it's NOT a matter of style, but a matter of sub-par performing quality. Sometimes political correctness goes mad even for these cases. |
| john bodega 14.02.2011 11:48 |
"but sometimes people think anything that isn't heavy rock or has a great guitar solo means it sucks" But that's just an assumption on your part. There are a myriad of other reasons that I don't think Hot Space was an entirely successful experiment. It doesn't invalidate it as an album - experiments either work or they don't, that's the very idea of them. I for one love a whole lot of music that isn't heavy rock. You might want to come up with a more inclusive knee-jerk response to people who don't share your musical taste than "go listen to kiss". It's very inaccurate. |
| Sebastian 14.02.2011 15:02 |
Come to think about it, I take back what I wrote earlier: it DOES have a lot to do with the style. But not in a metal > disco way - it's a matter of specialities, IMO. A lot of people didn't enjoy Michael Jordan's baseball career. Does it mean they hated baseball? For the most part, I don't think so. Does it mean they were rabid anti-White-Socks? For the most part, I don't think so. It simply means they knew he belonged elsewhere. As a baseball player, he was average, as a basketball player, he was arguably the best ever. Soon enough, he also realised that and went back to the NBA. Same if, say, David Gilmour started a career as a professional drummer: he certainly plays well (and has done so in the studio occasionally), but: A) He's not as good as those who've devoted their life to that instrument (too many examples to put here). B) He's already LARGELY proficient at another instrument. And it doesn't mean guitar > drums. It does mean, though, that David's a way way way better guitarist than drummer. IMO, it's the same case here: Queen were not at all experts on funk or Motown. They were rock artists. They were not experienced professionals on drum programming and synth-bass; they were a four-piece band with a very professional drummer and an equally skilful bassist who were at their best when playing actual instruments rather than programming cheap samples. Brian was not a proficient funky guitarist (in fact, for that department, even he admitted John Deacon was better), but he is an extraordinary rock performer. They get an 'A for effort' as they dared to try something else, but it's clear (first of all to Queen themselves) that it was not their department. No wonder why they returned to what they knew they did best. Michael Jackson, marvellous singer that he was, would've faced an epic fail if he tried recording Stone Cold Crazy or Du Hast. He was incomparable, though, on things like Beat It or Man in the Mirror. Likewise, Queen were outstanding for something like Show Must Go On or Killer Queen (two very different pieces, but still part of their 'native tongue', so to speak), but they didn't quite cut the mustard for something like Staying Power (in the studio, that is) or Pain Is So Close to Pleasure. |
| Wiley 14.02.2011 17:36 |
I think I may be the only one who likes Staying Power's studio version (a bit) more than the live version. Live is a different beast and it ROCKS big time but it's not "hot and spacey" like the studio version, hehe :). Also, Freddie's studio vocals are unsurpassable, I think. and he shines on this record. By the way, I don't care that much for the horns. They are adecquate for that song. It's a great idea but the execution is lacking a bit. Like Seb said, it was not Queen's specialty... what they did best. Maybe if they had incorporated a few guest musicians, producers or arrangers who were experts in that genre then it could have been better. PS: Hopefully, Hot Space's Deluxe Edition will include the 12" remix for Staying Power. It's awesome. |
| mike hunt 14.02.2011 18:28 |
Yea but Radio Ga Ga was in that hot space style and is considered a classic, as is AOBTD.......They did have their moments in that style. If michael jackson tried hard rock he would make a fool of himself. |
| mike hunt 14.02.2011 18:41 |
Zebonka12 wrote: "but sometimes people think anything that isn't heavy rock or has a great guitar solo means it sucks" But that's just an assumption on your part. There are a myriad of other reasons that I don't think Hot Space was an entirely successful experiment. It doesn't invalidate it as an album - experiments either work or they don't, that's the very idea of them. I for one love a whole lot of music that isn't heavy rock. You might want to come up with a more inclusive knee-jerk response to people who don't share your musical taste than "go listen to kiss". It's very inaccurate. Oh please, if it wasn't for arguments this site would be boring as hell. I seen enough of you're posts to know you have a wide taste in music. Usually I pick fights with guys who know more than me, you, "sir" Sebastian ECT......I agree as a whole, hot space was a failed experiment, but did have some good moments. Much better than Judas priests Turbo Album, and other bands Experiments. |
| john bodega 14.02.2011 18:49 |
"Oh please, if it wasn't for arguments this site would be boring as hell." I don't believe so! I know for a fact that in my non-internet life, I've had quite a few interesting and rewarding discussions that weren't 'arguments' ... hahaha. |
| Sebastian 19.08.2011 10:47 |
BTW, I was wrong. Action This Day does have a real sax. |
| Djdownsy 19.08.2011 11:38 |
I think the only problem with this album is that the four of them wern't in the right place to pull of something like this, they all did their own songs, for the most part, seperate to each other. They hated the studio at this point too. Imagine what 'Staying Power', 'Cool Cat', 'Action This Day' and 'Back Chat' (4 songs I love regardless) would have sounded like if all 4 of them had worked and performed on them? It's hardly surprising that 'Calling All Girls' and LPDA sound really good is it? |
| Sebastian 19.08.2011 12:16 |
Staying Power, Back Chat and Action do have the four of them. As for Cool Cat, I honestly think there's no room for Brian there: the funky rhythm guitar fitted John's style far more than it fitted Brian's. And Brian's voice, good as it is, had nothing to add to that particular song. |
| Over the Field 19.08.2011 12:20 |
Sebastian wrote: BTW, I was wrong. Action This Day does have a real sax. Ok, thank you for the information! I |
| Dane 31.08.2011 15:40 |
On Topic: Horn sections belong in movie scores, classical music and funk and such.. not on a Queen-album. Hot Space was a casualty of the times. But since it's there, might as well enjoy it. If any of the Hot Space songs come on the radio I'll be the first one to turn up the volume. Off Topic: Arguments spring from discussions that go on too long. Arguing is the point where neither party really listens to the other and when stuff is said just for the sake of being said... or worst.. to hurt the other person. Don't waste time on shenannigans like this. anyone like to discuss?? Just kidding. theres bound to be people who disagree, and thats ok. |
| dysan 01.09.2011 02:54 |
I love the horns on Staying Power, and the live version IS better, but always goes astray on the MID 8 section as they always crank up the guitar and turn the keyboard playing the actual melody. |
| Micrówave 01.09.2011 12:26 |
I've never thought the Oberheim was "hot and spacey". |