| MikieT1 26.12.2010 18:06 |
Ive been a fan of queen for as long as I can remember - posters on wall and every album bought - I cant beleive what I've heard today during the height of apartheid and in violation of worldwide divestment efforts they played Sun City - i know it was so long ago but i feel so sick and let down by people i thought were the heroes of my childhood. Shame on them |
| April Lady 26.12.2010 18:20 |
There's always another side to these things. |
| MikieT1 26.12.2010 18:36 |
whats the other side - just looked at the sales figures for queen after they did live aid - when they first came to my attention - a band without scruples that would do anything for money is now my thoughts, |
| April Lady 26.12.2010 18:44 |
So if you've been a fan for as long as you can remember why have you only just found out about Sun City? It's hardly a secret. Trolling? |
| The Real Wizard 26.12.2010 19:42 |
Here's an interview with Brian May years after the fact. Decide for yourself what you think after reading - link Another thing most people don't know is the fact that free tickets were given away to those who couldn't afford them (i.e. black people) to ensure the concerts would be played to mixed audiences. |
| john bodega 26.12.2010 23:28 |
Jesus fucking Christ, I am sick of hearing morons complain about the Sun City thing. I'm glad they played it. People have this bizarre notion that everyone at the shows must have been a white supporter of apartheid. There would've been plenty of people there who fit neither description and just wanted to see some live Queen, but you pinheads would deprive them of that because of where they lived. There are ways to register your disapproval of a regime, but withholding live music and so forth hurts the wrong people. Why not just stop giving them films in the cinema while you're at it? |
| jamster1111 27.12.2010 00:15 |
Every time I hear people complain about the whole Sun City thing it gets me pissed. Who cares if there was some international boycott going on. Queen wasn't a political band and wanted to perform from every audience possible. They weren't gonna let some boycott stop them from entertaining people and sharing their music. Give me a fucking break. |
| Gregsynth 27.12.2010 00:17 |
It also proved that Queen had BALLS (going against an international boycott)! |
| -fatty- 2850 27.12.2010 03:23 |
I'm not sure about the other guys in the band but I'm pretty sure that Freddie was racist. You only have to listen to 'MARCH OF THE BLACK QUEEN' with it's use of the word "Nigger" to realise that Freddie was none too fond of ethnic minorities. Then there's the infamous goose-stepping scene in his video for 'I WAS BORN TO LOVE YOU'. I've also heard that the fall out with his good friend Peter Straker came about because Freddie discovered that he was black. Come to think of it, didn't Bob Geldof say that the only way he got Queen to appear at Live Aid was to assure Freddie that the money would only be spent on white starving children? And let's not forget his surprise appearance at a Combat 18 gig in 1987 in which he performed with the lads on stage and denied the holocaust in front of 5,000 screaming white supremicists. So while I may not agree with his views I have to admire Freddie's brave stand against political correctness. fatty. |
| Holly2003 27.12.2010 05:53 |
Reading that BM interview the phrase 'don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining' comes to mind. Queen did it for the money. The USA market had gone and they wanted to expand into other markets like South America, Eastern Europe, and no doubt Asia would've been on the agenda if they hadn't stopped touring. SA/Africa was just another market. Every excuse people come up with to defend them is a rationalisation to avoid that point. |
| Amazon 27.12.2010 06:31 |
-fatty- wrote: "I'm not sure about the other guys in the band but I'm pretty sure that Freddie was racist. You only have to listen to 'MARCH OF THE BLACK QUEEN' with it's use of the word "Nigger" to realise that Freddie was none too fond of ethnic minorities. Then there's the infamous goose-stepping scene in his video for 'I WAS BORN TO LOVE YOU'. I've also heard that the fall out with his good friend Peter Straker came about because Freddie discovered that he was black. Come to think of it, didn't Bob Geldof say that the only way he got Queen to appear at Live Aid was to assure Freddie that the money would only be spent on white starving children? And let's not forget his surprise appearance at a Combat 18 gig in 1987 in which he performed with the lads on stage and denied the holocaust in front of 5,000 screaming white supremicists. So while I may not agree with his views I have to admire Freddie's brave stand against political correctness." :D Oh, fatty, if there is an award for best satiric poster, it must surely go to you. :D BTW, any chance of you telling us more, from a few years ago, of how you've seen Freddie since his 'death'? :D |
| Amazon 27.12.2010 06:39 |
I agree with Holly. Whether we approve of what Queen did, we shouldn't pretend that they did it for 'noble' reasons. Not that it was their obligation to be 'noble'; as it is, I don't think it was. When I was younger, I was disappointed that Queen had played at Sun City. Now, even though I personally wouldn't have done so, I'm not as disappointed as I once was as I now realise it's not my place to judge. If there is one thing I can't stand, it's moralism, and while I wouldn't have played Sun City if I was a member of Queen, I'm not going to judge them for making the choice to do so. When it comes to boycotts and the like, people have to make up their own mind. There are boycotts I support, and there are boycotts I oppose, like with anyone else; and I'm not going to penalise the guys because they oppose a boycott which I happen to support. For if I do support it, then I should take action myself. I can't, and shouldn't, expect others to take action on my behalf just to satisfy my conscience. |
| YourValentine 27.12.2010 09:04 |
This interview with Brian May is really unbelievable. So, he saw all these black people in the audience - he must have been hallucinating. Sun City was the most shameless all-white, rich amusement center which no black person could afford - even if the whites had actually allowed them to attend. Queen did not go back to South Africa because they would have been excluded by the British musicians union - which already nearly happened after the first break of the UN boycott - they did not stay away because Little Steven disapproved, that is ridiculous. If they had not stayed away their carreer would have been over once and for all. Brian said in this interview that they had thought very carefully about going which sheds a very unfavourable light on their collective intellectual ability - because it was very ill-advised to play Sun City. It was NOT just a concert somewhere in South Africa - it was a concert (series of concerts, rather) in a frivolous, all-white place in the middle of the so-called independent republic of Bophuthatswana which was in fact a Bantustan - an area to which ethnically grouped black South Africans were forcefully relocated, thus losing their South African citizenship. To claim that playing in Sun City did any good against Apartheid is just not right. It would have been so much better if Queen had admitted that they made a grave error in judgement. What also always annoyed me was the incredible hypocrisy by many people who would not even have crossed a street to help the South African black people but acted like Queen had actually invented Apartheid. Although it was a very bad mistake to play there Queen was just a Rock band and it was totally ridiculous to crucify Quuen for their appearance while sparing the mighty Western governments who did virtually nothing to put an end to Apartheid. |
| Soundfreak 27.12.2010 09:24 |
I'm not in the position to judge what has happened then. If someone is in the position it's the people living there. And the fact that Nelson Mandela had them playing there years later for his AIDS campaign, should indicate, that looking back it can not have been such a big mistake. |
| Amazon 27.12.2010 09:30 |
Soundfreak wrote: "And the fact that Nelson Mandela had them playing there years later for his AIDS campaign, should indicate, that looking back it can not have been such a big mistake." I don't think one can judge it by whether Mandela has forgiven them. He's an extraordinary man who has forgiven people who have done far worse than what Queen may have done. On the other hand, I remember reading an absurd piece written, perhaps unsurprisingly, by some tabloid columnist who still hasn't forgiven Queen. |
| brians wig 27.12.2010 10:09 |
MikieT1 wrote: Ive been a fan of queen for as long as I can remember - posters on wall and every album bought - I cant beleive what I've heard today during the height of apartheid and in violation of worldwide divestment efforts they played Sun City - i know it was so long ago but i feel so sick and let down by people i thought were the heroes of my childhood. Shame on them. ------------------------------------------------------------ You and everyone else should "get real" and stop slagging them off for doing it. Sure Apartheid was bad, but you should look at it from this point of view: Queen played not only to white people, but to the black people as well. How's that for "supporting Apartheid"? Good on 'em I say. Someone had to make the stand and Queen did it. |
| ParisNair 27.12.2010 14:03 |
Aparthied, the slave trade in america, etc are topics which i have found very "interesting" of late and hope to read up on in the near future. |
| Daniel Nester 27.12.2010 22:04 |
Um, it was a bad decision, both sense- and politics- and career-wise. It was naive, for one. For one to to say they're glad they did it, or it proved they had balls, wow. Hero-worship can only go so far. The pro-Sun City folks also seem to be the same "Freddie wasn't gay" people round these parts. Coincidence? |
| Daniel Nester 27.12.2010 22:06 |
"Someone had to make the stand and Queen did it. " What stand was that? The make-a-lot-of-money-over-four-days stand? Or the oh-shit-we-didn't-think-people-would-know stand? |
| Daniel Nester 27.12.2010 22:11 |
I asked this before, but if someone, anyone, can link to one report, video, or recording of any members of the band, while they were in South Africa, saying anything critical of the apartheid system or the then-current regime or even a reference to the integrated audiences they were about to play to, I'd be inclined to agree that the whole Sun City thing is out of proportion. But I have yet to come across any of it. Can anyone provide links? Scans? Freaking hearsay? Besides the old after-the-fact Brian interview, I mean. |
| Gregsynth 28.12.2010 00:35 |
Here's an interview about Sun City. |
| Wijnand 28.12.2010 02:59 |
I've been to Sun City, and I must say: It's a great venue! |
| Soundfreak 28.12.2010 04:35 |
Somehow it's absurd to come up with that topic after such a long time. In the end there is nothing else to say than: People who do a lot and even try new things will also do mistakes. While people who do nothing at all can easily throw stones. I prefer people who do a lot. They are the ones that make the world an exciting place to be. |
| brians wig 28.12.2010 05:39 |
Thanks for the interview snippet Gregsynth. Do you have the complete interview you could upload, or did you just find the youtube link? |
| Joxer 28.12.2010 14:23 |
Freddie Mercury and Queen arriving at Jan Smuts South Africa link |
| Marknow 28.12.2010 17:12 |
@ brians wig You can download the interview here link |
| GratefulFan 28.12.2010 17:57 |
Few would argue that every person has a standing moral obligation to reject and condemn a political system as profoundly and insidiously unjust as was apartheid. But it's absurd, not to mention wildly ironic, for anyone outside the band organization to presume to compel Queen to any particular action or inaction in objection to the regime, or to co-opt their freedom as artists and human beings - in this case to position their music outside of political ends. Hurrah for independent thought, then and now and always. And though shunning can be a psychologically effective means of social manipulation, it was ultimately internal instability and violence along with international economic pressure that was largely responsible for breaking the ugly back of apartheid. I'm glad they played Sun City because I'm glad for the thousands of fans who might otherwise have lived young lives completely without an experience like that. And any powerfully positive experience that brought together blacks and whites, however incidental that bringing together was to any overarching goals (or the lack of them), had to have worked subtly against segregationist ideas, and not in support of them. |
| paulosham 28.12.2010 17:57 |
Gregsynth wrote: It also proved that Queen had BALLS (going against an international boycott)! Of all the idiotic things I have ever read on Queenzone, this takes the biscuit. The reason the boycott was in place was to show the government of South Africa that their policy of apartheid was wrong. To break the boycott was to give approval to an oppressive and unjust policy. You should be ashamed of your comment and so should everyone else who says that Queen were right to play. The colour of the audience, or their political and/or racial views, is not the point. The fact is Queen were ignorant of the international view and policy and should not have played there. Read this. link |
| GratefulFan 28.12.2010 18:08 |
paulsmith2001 wrote: The reason the boycott was in place was to show the government of South Africa that their policy of apartheid was wrong. To break the boycott was to give approval to an oppressive and unjust policy. ============================== This is precisely the point over which I strongly disagree. Says who that to break the boycott was to give approval to the stunningly unjust policies of apartheid era South Africa? That is a wild leap, and entirely a projection from outside almost sure to be completely unrelated to the motivations of those that made the [free] choice to play for music fans. |
| Gregsynth 28.12.2010 20:29 |
. |
| paulosham 28.12.2010 20:53 |
link When you play in a place that is a volatile as South Africa was in the 80s, saying you're not a political band just doesn't cut it. Maybe the money was just too much to turn down. |
| Gregsynth 28.12.2010 21:00 |
. |
| BriantaylorOBE 29.12.2010 08:44 |
someone need to tell me explain sun city what is it? |
| Holly2003 29.12.2010 09:32 |
community wrote: someone need to tell me explain sun city what is it? It's a big place with lots of windows, sand, and hairballs. |
| Holly2003 29.12.2010 09:37 |
Listening to some of those interviews is embarrassing. Some of the excuses ... Roger demonstrates again he really is the epitome of the classic vacuous rock star. "Music shouldn;t be political," he says, presumably just before he rushed off to record another song like “Nazis” or "Unblinking Eye" or cover another song like Lennon's “Working Class Hero”. Maybe he meant it shouldn't be political if the circumstances mean there's big profit to be made. |
| john bodega 29.12.2010 23:19 |
Didn't anyone see the video to Radio Ga-Ga? I don't remember there being any blacks in that one. Queen were fucking racists. |
| FunLovinCriminal 06.07.2018 11:31 |
I wonder how Brian May reflects on their Sun City-mistake these days. Given that he wishes for a new government in right wing England, he might have another view on their 1984-wrong doing. But Queen in its heyday had been a reactionary bunch, socially and musically speaking. That makes the whole Mercury-being-gay- and Mercury-having-had-contracted-HIV-facts even more telling in retrospect. It still upsets me that Freddie happily indulged in the by then new found freedom for gay men in America, which was fought for a decade ago by guys who didn't want to stay in the closet anymore. They were brave, he wasn't. The same applies itself to Queen having played Sun City. |
| Seed_Of_Rhy 06.07.2018 14:31 |
Oh, i read on some branch here, that it was Sun City concert when Freddie suddenly got throat bleeding. What's really happened - the case? circumstances? memories of those who was there? was it ever mentioned in an article somewhere or in interview? Asking for photo and video is'nt respectful thought...but all pieces of info would be great |
| jenniferbrownz 20.07.2018 06:47 |
Whats the other side - just looked at the sales figures for queen after they did live aid - when they first came to my attention - a band without scruples that would do anything for money is now my thoughts. _________________________ download soundcloud to mp3 |
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| runner_70 24.12.2019 08:44 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Here's an interview with Brian May years after the fact. Decide for yourself what you think after reading - link Another thing most people don't know is the fact that free tickets were given away to those who couldn't afford them (i.e. black people) to ensure the concerts would be played to mixed audiences.There were hardly any blacks in the audiences. Ratty said that multiple times. And he was there. Just a late excuse by Maylor. Which you sucked up of course as you always do. |
| AlbaNo1 24.12.2019 13:47 |
At least badgers are black and white |
| AlbaNo1 24.12.2019 13:47 |
At least badgers are black and white |
| Vocal harmony 25.12.2019 17:09 |
AlbaNo1 wrote: At least badgers are black and whiteActually they're brown, grey, black and white. |
| brENsKi 25.12.2019 18:29 |
Vocal harmony wrote:is that "sett" in stone?AlbaNo1 wrote:At least badgers are black and whiteActually they're brown, grey, black and white. |