QueenZone discussion #1247804
Plagiarism - not so naughty, everybody does it so what have you noticed ?
| Bigfish 10.11.2010 07:39 |
Recently made a mental list of Queen songs that appear to have 'Borrowed' from other artists; Seven seas of Ryhe (intro) - Pinball Wizard/The Who Staying Power (riff) - Out on the tiles/Led Zep Hammer to Fall (Bridge) - Touch too Much/AC/DC One Vision (riff)- Highway to Hell/AC/DC Rain must fall-Young hearts run free/Candi Staton Another one bites the dust (obvious and well documented)-Good times/Chic Invisible man- Ghostbusters/ray parker (spurious but I can hear it!) I've no doubt that if I was more familiar with classical pieces then there would be a few more particularly with Freds piano pieces.. Anybody spotted anything else ? |
| GratefulFan 10.11.2010 09:16 |
Parts of 'Keep Passing the Open Windows' are a bit too cozy with Joe Jackson's 'Steppin Out' |
| PrimeJiveUSA 10.11.2010 09:58 |
Breakthru-"The Boys Of Summer" by Don Henley Invisible Man- "Bad" by Michael Jackson AOBTD- "Rappers Delight" Sugarhill Gang |
| Bigfish 10.11.2010 10:29 |
PrimeJiveUSA wrote: Breakthru-"The Boys Of Summer" by Don Henley Invisible Man- "Bad" by Michael Jackson AOBTD- "Rappers Delight" Sugarhill Gang The chords in the chorus are similar on Breakthru to Boys of summer but can't see the connection otherwise. (great album - building the perfect beast, by the way) Sugarhill gang used the backing track from Good times for Rappers delight. |
| Bigfish 10.11.2010 10:30 |
GratefulFan wrote: Parts of 'Keep Passing the Open Windows' are a bit too cozy with Joe Jackson's 'Steppin Out' yeah forgot that one. Good call. |
| Sebastian 10.11.2010 10:35 |
I think the difference between something 'inspired by' and something 'plagiarised from' is whether you like the involved artists or not. Breakthru' has parts in the melody which are virtually identical note for note to the 'Summer' thing: people claim it's inspired, not stolen. Vanilla Ice's riff is just as similar to UP as Breakthru' to BoS: Flick of the Wrist mantra. |
| Bigfish 10.11.2010 10:44 |
Sebastian wrote: I think the difference between something 'inspired by' and something 'plagiarised from' is whether you like the involved artists or not. Breakthru' has parts in the melody which are virtually identical note for note to the 'Summer' thing: people claim it's inspired, not stolen. Vanilla Ice's riff is just as similar to UP as Breakthru' to BoS: Flick of the Wrist mantra. Inspired by, plagiarised from, is a thin line sure. Not the point, just curious to know what other people have found. Still don't see connection between Breakthru and Boys of summer except for chorus chord structure.. Vanilla Ice's riff is not just similar - it's the actual bass line sampled. I believe that's been fairly well documented. |
| PrimeJiveUSA 10.11.2010 11:04 |
Indeed...and the piano "ding-dong" part too. On Breakthru it's not just the chords its the phrasing too..."If I could only reach u, if i could make u smile" Compared to "I can see u, your brown skin shining in the sun"...sung and paced VERY similarly...then add the guitar chords...and...well...u get the picture...lol |
| Bigfish 10.11.2010 11:08 |
PrimeJiveUSA wrote: Indeed...and the piano "ding-dong" part too. On Breakthru it's not just the chords its the phrasing too..."If I could only reach u, if i could make u smile" Compared to "I can see u, your brown skin shining in the sun"...sung and paced VERY similarly...then add the guitar chords...and...well...u get the picture...lol Actually, yeah I get it now, thanks. Never thought about it - good call.. |
| PrimeJiveUSA 10.11.2010 11:50 |
I agree with you about Building the Perfect Beast...great album...my favorite is the moody "Sunset Grill"...one of my favorites of all-time. TBOS also one of the greatest pop songs ever. LOl...I love Breakthru too(borrowed parts and all).! Great belting vocal from Freddie. |
| Bigfish 10.11.2010 12:14 |
PrimeJiveUSA wrote: I agree with you about Building the Perfect Beast...great album...my favorite is the moody "Sunset Grill"...one of my favorites of all-time. TBOS also one of the greatest pop songs ever. LOl...I love Breakthru too(borrowed parts and all).! Great belting vocal from Freddie. Yes Breakthru is a good moment on an album I'm not particularly fond of (like all the 80's Queen albums really) love the intro -got a good 12" remix of it on vinyl. Mainly a Rog comp. with a bit of Fred I think. TBOS is just one of the great records and Sunset Grill is excellent but then there's nothing on that album I don't like and ''A month of sundays¨¨ is fantasic. |
| jamster1111 10.11.2010 15:42 |
How the hell does the intro to Seven Seas of Rhye sound anything like Pinball Wizard by The Who |
| matt z 10.11.2010 16:26 |
jamster1111 wrote: How the hell does the intro to Seven Seas of Rhye sound anything like Pinball Wizard by The Who Yeah, i'm inclined to agree with that.. but i kinda see what they're getting at... different keys but similar modulation. Long ringing power chords... I still don't believe the accusation/suggestion carries too much weight, but i enjoy this topic cause it'll key me into other songs i don't know... ...BTW: i've heard a song that sounds incredibly like KEEP PASSING THE OPEN WINDOWS...only i'd never found out who played it... UNTIL NOW!! (godawful song IMHO... Queen Trumped it even if it's derivative) Still nothing as bad as "He's So Fine"/ "My Sweet Lord" Just don't call up the 50's rock n roll thing.. that was like a pattern to itself... as far as Crazy Little Thing goes... COOL TOPIC! |
| woodi485485 11.11.2010 02:23 |
Mother Love = Big Log by Robert Plant Get Down Make Love = Whole Lotta Love by Led Zep Still Burnin (QPR) = Black Dog by Led Zep |
| freddiefan91 11.11.2010 02:37 |
The Scissor Sisters have a song called Mama and the rhythm is very similar in style to Tie Your Mother Down |
| rubbertommywatergun 11.11.2010 10:11 |
Dont Try Suicide is Walking on the Moon by the Police obv. |
| Dim 11.11.2010 11:38 |
Was all worth it - The guns of Navaron theme music, especially after 2:50 towards the end is more clear. link But it is inspiration, because it was used very clever and create a great rock "unknown Queen gem" |
| Bigfish 12.11.2010 06:09 |
rubbertommywatergun wrote: Dont Try Suicide is Walking on the Moon by the Police obv. More parody than Plagiarised I think... |
| Bigfish 12.11.2010 06:15 |
Dim wrote: Was all worth it - The guns of Navaron theme music, especially after 2:50 towards the end is more clear. link But it is inspiration, because it was used very clever and create a great rock "unknown Queen gem" Yes i can see that but it does bare similarity to alot of incidental movie music and it was a trick they used before on The Hero which actually DID have incidental movie music.. As far as "Was it all worth it" being a gem is concerned, well, I just can't agree. The lyrics are just awful - although musically it's alot of fun.. |
| thomasquinn 32989 12.11.2010 06:34 |
"sounds vaguely like" =/= plagiarism Most of the examples mentioned above are not plagiarism by any definition. If two songs share a chord-progression, this does not make it plagiarism. If two songs share cadences this is not plagiarism. If a song features a literal, unaltered fragment longer than four bars of another song without acknowledging the original authorship, *that* is plagiarism. |
| Bigfish 12.11.2010 06:58 |
ThomasQuinn wrote: "sounds vaguely like" =/= plagiarism Most of the examples mentioned above are not plagiarism by any definition. If two songs share a chord-progression, this does not make it plagiarism. If two songs share cadences this is not plagiarism. If a song features a literal, unaltered fragment longer than four bars of another song without acknowledging the original authorship, *that* is plagiarism. Thanks but wasn't really seeking a legal definition or otherwise. The whole point of the discussion is just to know what people have noticed.. |
| Holly2003 12.11.2010 07:10 |
I've heard it said that Gary Glitter's Rock & Roll Part 2 is similar to We Will Rock You. Unfortunately, that's not the only connection between Queen and Glitter ... link |
| thomasquinn 32989 12.11.2010 07:12 |
Bigfish wrote: ThomasQuinn wrote: "sounds vaguely like" =/= plagiarism Most of the examples mentioned above are not plagiarism by any definition. If two songs share a chord-progression, this does not make it plagiarism. If two songs share cadences this is not plagiarism. If a song features a literal, unaltered fragment longer than four bars of another song without acknowledging the original authorship, *that* is plagiarism. Thanks but wasn't really seeking a legal definition or otherwise. The whole point of the discussion is just to know what people have noticed.. ==== The point is that what people have noticed isn't plagiarism. The guitar part in "Dani California" is plagiarism; the intro to Seven Seas of Rhye is vaguely similar to Pinball Wizard. If you start applying the term "plagiarism" to that, you devalue the meaning of the word "plagiarism". It is *exactly* the same thing as calling every conservative bigot a "fascist": by doing so, you devalue the meaning of the word "fascism" so that, sooner or later, it will no longer have any meaning at all. Plagiarism is a serious problem and also a serious crime. You evidently don't understand what the word means, and so you throw it around much too lightly. |
| Bigfish 12.11.2010 07:18 |
ThomasQuinn wrote: Bigfish wrote: ThomasQuinn wrote: "sounds vaguely like" =/= plagiarism Most of the examples mentioned above are not plagiarism by any definition. If two songs share a chord-progression, this does not make it plagiarism. If two songs share cadences this is not plagiarism. If a song features a literal, unaltered fragment longer than four bars of another song without acknowledging the original authorship, *that* is plagiarism. Thanks but wasn't really seeking a legal definition or otherwise. The whole point of the discussion is just to know what people have noticed.. ==== The point is that what people have noticed isn't plagiarism. The guitar part in "Dani California" is plagiarism; the intro to Seven Seas of Rhye is vaguely similar to Pinball Wizard. If you start applying the term "plagiarism" to that, you devalue the meaning of the word "plagiarism". It is *exactly* the same thing as calling every conservative bigot a "fascist": by doing so, you devalue the meaning of the word "fascism" so that, sooner or later, it will no longer have any meaning at all. Plagiarism is a serious problem and also a serious crime. You evidently don't understand what the word means, and so you throw it around much too lightly. So have you noticed anything similar, borrowed, plagiarised or inspired by in the Queen catalogue that hasn't already been mentioned, Thomas ? |
| Shvili 13.11.2010 18:29 |
these two sound similar to me. ZZ Top-Tush (from 1:10) link Queen - Tie Your Mother Down link |
| PrimeJiveUSA 13.11.2010 19:07 |
There's definitely a bit of "ZZ Top" guitar sound in passages of "Don't Lose Your Head". |
| Bigfish 14.11.2010 04:45 |
Something I did overlook was the Intro to 'It's a Hard Life' "I don't want my freedom..." etc. This is actually taken from 'Vesti La Guibba' which is an opera aria from PAGLIACCI written by Rugerro Leoncavallo. |
| Bigfish 14.11.2010 10:43 |
PrimeJiveUSA wrote: There's definitely a bit of "ZZ Top" guitar sound in passages of "Don't Lose Your Head". Yes, and 'Headlong' - definately some Topism going on there. |
| Groucho Marx 15.11.2010 11:57 |
|
| Groucho Marx 15.11.2010 11:58 |
Lots of great ideas for anybody who likes to do mashups! Haha. There are a TON of similarities like this in all music. I'm willing to bet most of the time it isn't intentional. Someone mentioned Invisible Man copying Ghostbusters. First of all, there are some lyrical similarities, but musically - not so much. Besides, haven't you heard of how Ray Parker, Jr. stole it from Huey Lewis? Look it up. It's pretty interesting. That would be a case of intentional plagiarism, I think. Just look at how many hits Huey Lewis has had compared to Ray Parker, Jr.? Seems obvious to me. |
| Bigfish 15.11.2010 15:38 |
Funny, the first time I heard 'Invisible man' - the melody and to an extent the lyrics - i remember thinking 'ah - Ghostbusters'. Then again, Huey lewis ? i suppose it all comes out of the same pot.. Still, never liked 'The Invisible Man'... |
| PrimeJiveUSA 15.11.2010 19:38 |
I instantly thought "Bad" from Michael Jackson...but no one else seems to...lol! But I LIKED it! Instantly catchy but wears thin quicker than the other songs from The Miracle. Actually liked the extended remis version as the bonus track better. |
| Bigfish 16.11.2010 05:00 |
Yep, just put myself through the very guilty pleasure that is 'Bad' and I can hear it now.. |
| pma 16.11.2010 06:41 |
If not mentioned already, Ray Parker Jr, Huey Lewis and Queen are loosely connected by one piece of music... M - Pop Muzik link I believe Roger Taylor even acknowledged the song "Pop Muzik" as an "inspiration" (not those exact words of course) in one interview over the topic of similarities between "The Invisible Man" and the Ghostbusters theme. |
| McNulty 24.11.2010 15:55 |
The Beatles. And why not? It's more of an affectionate nod to someone they admire rather than a blatant rip-off by a bunch of hacks (ie-Oasis) |
| Wiley 24.11.2010 16:13 |
McNulty wrote: The Beatles. And why not? It's more of an affectionate nod to someone they admire rather than a blatant rip-off by a bunch of hacks (ie-Oasis) --------------------------------------------------- Well, I don't believe the Gallagher brothers have never ripped off The Beatles -per se. They are heavily influenced by and admire them but their music has always been different. Specially around the time they were saying "Oasis is better than The Beatles". Their attitude was part of a publicity stunt. They played a couple of Beatles songs in their setlists but Oasis' songs were nothing like the Beatles'. The Beatlesque influence would be noticeable in Oasis' music until the last 7-8 years or so... around the time when people outside the UK stopped caring for the band, btw. And it was the Liam songs that started channeling Lennon, before Noel's: Born on a Different Cloud, I'm Outta Time, etc. In their earlier years Oasis had great songs (however basic or derivative) but they sounded like a glorified pub band. They learned a thing or two about music and started sounding much better with the years. Their last 3 albums were not as big as the first 3 but they had much more variety. |
| McNulty 24.11.2010 16:25 |
Don't mind me, I'm just bitter because most of the people who kicked my ass at school liked Oasis. They sound sweet f*ck all like The Beatles really. |
| matt z 26.11.2010 16:12 |
Something GLARINGLY OMITTED HERE!! .... Some Band called QPR actually went out and recorded a song called Tie Your Mother Down, that sounded a LOT like QUEEN'S Tie Your Mother down.... then they released a dud album and haven't been heard from since... Oh god... i wish i had a link to that site... Does anybody else know about this??????? |
| rhyeking 26.11.2010 21:18 |
I agree with TQ. Some of the examples cited might sound like other, earlier songs, but only superficially and maybe a few sequences of notes, but seriously, there's enough music from the past 500 years that such a thing is going to happen all the time. Even recorded popular music from the last 100 years is riddled with songs that sounds like other songs. It happens, sometimes consciously (Led Zepplin), unconsciously or by pure coincidence (Sweet and David Bowie). I'm willing to grant Queen the benefit of the doubt for the latter two if it happens at all. |
| FriedChicken 27.11.2010 07:00 |
Sebastian wrote: I think the difference between something 'inspired by' and something 'plagiarised from' is whether you like the involved artists or not. Breakthru' has parts in the melody which are virtually identical note for note to the 'Summer' thing: people claim it's inspired, not stolen. Vanilla Ice's riff is just as similar to UP as Breakthru' to BoS: Flick of the Wrist mantra. There's also a difference between 'inspired by', 'plagiarised from' and 'I think something sounds a bit like...' |
| BreakthruRhapsody 06.04.2015 11:48 |
I have noticed that the song "Tie Your Mother Down", personally one of my favorites, has a guitar part that sounds like a hard rock version of "Spirit in the Sky" by Norman Greenbaum. |
| HighWideandHandsome 06.04.2015 13:08 |
When I first heard "Headlong", I immediately thought of "Barracuda" by Heart. Listen to the introductions of each and you'll know what I mean. |
| Mrmarioanonym 06.04.2015 14:14 |
Woman - Wolfmother rips off Tie Your Mother Down IIRC |
| mooghead 06.04.2015 14:44 |
'Songs that sound like other songs' and 'best guitarist' arguments are what the internet was invented for... and............ go! |
| magneddu 07.04.2015 10:12 |
The riff of TYMD..to me..it's very simiar to riff of Smokin of Boston.. |
| Costa86 08.04.2015 07:37 |
Under Pressure was shamelessly ripped off Ice Ice Baby. Don't know how nobody mentions that one. |
| KJ 08.04.2015 08:32 |
I Always think Panic Station by Muse is a combination of Another one bites the dust and Suicide Blond |
| The King Of Rhye 08.04.2015 08:53 |
You could probably find hundreds of songs that sound a bit like TYMD, or riffs that sound like it at least.....it's pretty much a basic riff in A.... I remember back when Van Halen III came out (the Gary Cherone era! :P) there were a lot of people saying the opening riff of 'Josephina' was ripped off from Sweet Lady.....(listening to it again, the whole thing does sound sorta May-ish) |
| Holly2003 08.04.2015 09:32 |
As does Unchained by Van Halen (same chords anyway). But that's where the similarities end.
The King Of Rhye wrote: You could probably find hundreds of songs that sound a bit like TYMD, or riffs that sound like it at least.....it's pretty much a basic riff in A.... I remember back when Van Halen III came out (the Gary Cherone era! :P) there were a lot of people saying the opening riff of 'Josephina' was ripped off from Sweet Lady.....(listening to it again, the whole thing does sound sorta May-ish) |
| Sebastian 11.04.2015 17:34 |
mooghead wrote: 'Songs that sound like other songs' and 'best guitarist' arguments are what the internet was invented for... and............ go!What about cat videos? |
| thomasquinn 32989 12.04.2015 06:33 |
Sebastian wrote:mooghead wrote: 'Songs that sound like other songs' and 'best guitarist' arguments are what the internet was invented for... and............ go!What about cat videos? Don't forget about porn. |
| Sebastian 12.04.2015 07:26 |
Also, Hitler. And time travel. And Godwin's law of time travel: whatever you change in the past or in the future results in the Nazis winning. Anything at all. |
| thomasquinn 32989 12.04.2015 07:39 |
So, we're basically down to time travelling nazi-porn featuring cat-on-guitarist action and a really freaky meta-soundtrack of songs that all sound alike...and just before it gets 'good' (note the quotation marks), you spot Hitler in the background only to get a voiceover that says "no, you lose the argument because you mentioned Hitler". < RANT > I fucking hate those people who try to taboo Hitler and nazis by screaming "GODWIN!!!!" as soon as they are mentioned. That's THE way to make meaningful debate about the unpleasant sides of our history impossible. And yes, we have adopted more from the nazis than we care to admit. < / RANT > |
| Oscar J 12.04.2015 10:16 |
KJ wrote: I Always think Panic Station by Muse is a combination of Another one bites the dust and Suicide BlondDon't forget MJ's Thriller. Hell, even the lyrics match up in places. Speaking of Van Halen - the riff in House Of Pain sounds much like SCC. |
| Sebastian 12.04.2015 14:44 |
Oscar J wrote: Don't forget MJ's Thriller. Hell, even the lyrics match up in places.Yes but 'Thriller' owes its very existence to 'Hot Space', according to Dr May. |
| Oscar J 12.04.2015 18:30 |
What? Where did he say that? That's hilarious. |
| Sebastian 12.04.2015 21:41 |
Some time before Jacko kicked it. The day after he died he also mentioned something about that, although not using the same words. |
