Why I think Montreal is overdubbed

Bad Seed 04.11.2010 14:00	I believe that Rock Montreal has many vocal overdubs. NIH, JR, and the rock section of Bo Rap being the main culprits. Jailhouse Rock is easy to compare as we have the audience recording. However NIH and BR are both from the second night with no audience recording to compare. On the Rock Montreal version of NIH, I believe from the first 'Made me live again' to the vocal improv, Freddies vocal is overdubbed. If you listen carefully not only does the tone change slightly, Freddie suddenly sings with way more aggression. On NO other version of NIH will you find Freddie singing the song like this. That was enough to convince me that it was overdubbed. After listening to the original WWRY today it is noticeable that the 'aggressive' vocal starts a line earlier 'Just a new man' on this version! Compare and you'll hear clearly. Can anyone explain this? Move on to BR and suddenly that vocal style re-appears! Listen and discuss!
emrabt 04.11.2010 14:16	[quote] After listening to the original WWRY today it is noticeable that the 'aggressive' vocal starts a line earlier 'Just a new man' on this version! Compare and you'll hear clearly. Can anyone explain this?[/quote] -------------------------------------------------------------------- It’s an almost Completely different mix of the performances from both nights, which explains the differences, rock montreals audio was built from the ground up, so in that spot the line came from the other night. We can’t 100% confirm overdubs without both nights audience recordings. I do know one thing, in the original, the main vocals move about so badly between nights it gives the feeling of sea sickness. It’s terrible; they are all over the place.
Bad Seed 04.11.2010 14:24	Understand what your saying, but completely disagree about the vocal coming from the other night. Explain Jailhouse Rock? It was only performed on the first night.
emrabt 04.11.2010 15:00	Explain Jailhouse Rock? It was only performed on the first night. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't deny overdubs, but i think most of the changes are to do with the better mix.
Gregsynth 04.11.2010 22:28	Jailhouse Rock was played on both nights.
jamster1111 05.11.2010 00:04	You have this all incorrect. There are absolutely no dubs on Montreal. The reason why he may sound different in parts is because they switched nights. You also got it wrong when saying the recording of BR is from the second night. It is from the first night. The only reason why it sounds like it may be an overdub is because the performance is nearly flawless and so spectacular that it could seem to good to be true. However, this is no shock because it was late 1981 and Freddie's voice was known for being in amazing shape then. Here's a guide to overdubs on Queen concerts: Rainbow 1974: Overdubs on background vocals on some songs Hammersmith 1975: No overdubs Hyde Park 1976: No overdubs Earls Court 1977: No overdubs Houston 1977: No overdubs Live Killers Album: Tons of overdubs on background vocals and even some lead parts Paris 1979: No overdubs Tokyo 1979: No overdubs obviously lol :) Hammersmith 1979: No overdubs Buenos Aires 1981: No overdubs Sao Paulo 1981: No overdubs Caracas 1981: No overdubs Montreal 1981: No overdubs Milton Keynes 1982: The only overdub is on Fat Bottomed Girls on the "locality" line Tokorozawa 1982: No overdubs Rock in Rio 1985: No overdubs Tokyo 1985: No overdubs Live Aid: No overdubs Live At Wembley (More like "Dubbed at Wembley") 1986: Overdubs all over the place. Lead overdubs on songs such as One Vision, A Kind of Magic, Who Wants to Live Forever, I Want to Break Free, Radio Ga Ga, Friends will be Friends, We Are the Champions Budapest 1986: Overdub on under pressure on the line "higher higher and high!" at the end of the second verse/chorus
micksea173 05.11.2010 03:27	On Montreal Freddie does have aggression in his voice because he and the rest of band were pissed off with the film crew and the crowd that were there. The film crew wanted Freddie to wear the same clothes that he wore on the first night, but something happened and Freddie wasn't happy with them and came out wearing shorts and that was when it switches to the second night on the DVD. Also Freddie thought that the crowd didn't like Queen as they were mainly sitting around and not getting into the music, but what Queen didn't know on the night was the venue had told the fans that they weren't to get out of their seats, that is why there is so much aggression in Freddie's voice. It's all explained by Brian and Roger on the commentary of the DVD.
emrabt 05.11.2010 04:13	one of the "guaranteed to" parts in the killer queen chorus is spliced in from earlier in the song, same with that patch of the video footage, because Freddie didn’t sing that line on one night (his mouth isn’t moving in the original footage) and it’s emphasised differently to the WWRY version. This is the closest we can confirm to an “overdub”, it's really just patching a line in from another part of the same performance..
plumrach 05.11.2010 06:11	@JAMSTER Can you tell me where all the overdubs are for the wembley gig? I know where they are on One Vision, A Kind of Magic and We Are The Champions but not the others, perhaps i will have a look the weekend and see for myself!!!
Bad Seed 05.11.2010 06:13	emrabt wrote: one of the "guaranteed to" parts in the killer queen chorus is spliced in from earlier in the song, same with that patch of the video footage, because Freddie didn’t sing that line on one night (his mouth isn’t moving in the original footage) and it’s emphasised differently to the WWRY version. This is the closest we can confirm to an “overdub”, it's really just patching a line in from another part of the same performance.. ========== I think thats more likely to be a editing error on the original release, rather than Freddie not singing the line.
Bad Seed 05.11.2010 06:18	Gregsynth wrote: Jailhouse Rock was played on both nights. =================== Are you sure about that? And how do you know if so? I always read that it was only played on the first night. Hence the reason its in the wrong place in the set because of the shorts issue. Even still, The version from RM comes from the first night with overdubs (in my opinion).
Bad Seed 05.11.2010 06:28	jamster1111 wrote: You have this all incorrect. There are absolutely no dubs on Montreal. The reason why he may sound different in parts is because they switched nights. You also got it wrong when saying the recording of BR is from the second night. It is from the first night. The only reason why it sounds like it may be an overdub is because the performance is nearly flawless and so spectacular that it could seem to good to be true. However, this is no shock because it was late 1981 and Freddie's voice was known for being in amazing shape then. ===================== My mistake about Bo Rap. However I completely disagree with your reasoning about switching nights. Freddie's voice was in amazing shape, but he NEVER EVER sang in this style. Put a pair of headphones on, shut your eyes and listen (dont mean for that to sound patronising btw). I would put everything I own on these songs being overdubbed, I'm certain.
tcc 05.11.2010 07:29	My two cents' worth: The first video called We Will Rock You was produced under the control of Paul Swimmer. Would QPL be able to dub the sound in that video ? Has anyone compared the soundtrack from this video to Rock Montreal to see whether there is any difference ?
Gregsynth 05.11.2010 09:52	Bad Seed wrote: Gregsynth wrote: Jailhouse Rock was played on both nights. =================== Are you sure about that? And how do you know if so? I always read that it was only played on the first night. Hence the reason its in the wrong place in the set because of the shorts issue. Even still, The version from RM comes from the first night with overdubs (in my opinion). ======== Bob's site says that JR was played on both nights.
Gregsynth 05.11.2010 11:24	Bad Seed wrote: jamster1111 wrote: You have this all incorrect. There are absolutely no dubs on Montreal. The reason why he may sound different in parts is because they switched nights. You also got it wrong when saying the recording of BR is from the second night. It is from the first night. The only reason why it sounds like it may be an overdub is because the performance is nearly flawless and so spectacular that it could seem to good to be true. However, this is no shock because it was late 1981 and Freddie's voice was known for being in amazing shape then. ===================== My mistake about Bo Rap. However I completely disagree with your reasoning about switching nights. Freddie's voice was in amazing shape, but he NEVER EVER sang in this style. Put a pair of headphones on, shut your eyes and listen (dont mean for that to sound patronising btw). I would put everything I own on these songs being overdubbed, I'm certain. =================== I hear nothing to suggest dubbing on that part. If he did infact dub, you would be able to hear the original vocal line either bleed through, or faintly under the "correct" line. It's all over wembley, and you can hear Freddie's mistake on Fat Bottomed Girls underneath the "corrected" line.
Daniel vZ 05.11.2010 12:07	What about the solo of May from CLTCL, near the end of the solo the sound is different than the thing you see him playing, used the solo from the other night? link
marvinp01 05.11.2010 12:14	So it wasnt dubbed!!! those two shows were one offs and perhaps he was pissed or he was just trying something new after two years of touring the world! So what if he had never sang that style before, because he did there!
Gregsynth 05.11.2010 12:15	About the whole Crazy Little Thing Called Love thing: Was the sound any different on the older releases (like the VHS, etc)?
The Real Wizard 05.11.2010 12:19	Bad Seed makes a very good argument, but TCC has probably just nailed it - Queen had absolutely no creative control over these releases, so it is very unlikely that they were able to get overdubs of Freddie in there. Even if they could have, why was it necessary? Freddie was on the top of his game in 1981 live, and could sing just about anything he wanted to sing.
Gregsynth 05.11.2010 12:22	marvinp01 wrote: So it wasnt dubbed!!! those two shows were one offs and perhaps he was pissed or he was just trying something new after two years of touring the world! So what if he had never sang that style before, because he did there! ===================== I don't think it's dubbed either. Plus, hate to be picky--but Freddie breaks his voice slightly during the rock section. I don't think that's a dub! Freddie does sing very aggressive and "hard" throughout the concert. The whole director thing did piss Freddie off (Brian and Roger mention it throughout the whole show), so Freddie probably was just "getting it out."
Gregsynth 05.11.2010 12:44	The important thing is this: Unlike Wembley, at least Freddie's vocals on Montreal and Live At The Bowl were almost completely live. I don't know why they filmed it at Wembley, they should've filmed that damn Leiden concert (either the 1st or 2nd one). Then, Freddie was AMAZING, and could sing stuff closer to the album (plus legit high notes)!
Gregsynth 05.11.2010 12:48	I've two questions: 1. Does an audience recording of the 2nd concert exist? and 2. How come the first night's audience recording on Bob's site has most of the songs--while the one shared here has over half of them removed?
Holly2003 05.11.2010 12:57	Bohemian Rhapsody is definitely overdubbed: the operatic bit sounds just like the record ....
Gregsynth 05.11.2010 13:07	I never knew that! I've been told the wrong info for YEARS!
Sith 05.11.2010 13:31	emrabt wrote: one of the "guaranteed to" parts in the killer queen chorus is spliced in from earlier in the song, same with that patch of the video footage, because Freddie didn’t sing that line on one night (his mouth isn’t moving in the original footage) and it’s emphasised differently to the WWRY version. This is the closest we can confirm to an “overdub”, it's really just patching a line in from another part of the same performance.. I agree, I caught that on the original VHS release and then noticed that they corrected the video on the DVD release. I wish they would just keep it raw.
Sith 05.11.2010 13:36
marvinp01 05.11.2010 14:08	problem solved! :) Have you noticed Freddie's dramatic change in voice since the West Coast gigs in the US Game tour 1980 to the 1981 south america gigs? The vocals went from hoarse and thick to clean and thin... but still awesome and powerful.
Gregsynth 05.11.2010 15:01	Because Freddie stopped being Mr. Bad Guy (AKA Oversinging songs), and the 1981 leg had more breaks in between! The 1981 concerts are awesome!
dive2063 05.11.2010 15:36	Is there any overdubs on Live Magic official release?
Bad Seed 05.11.2010 17:44	Sith wrote: emrabt wrote: one of the "guaranteed to" parts in the killer queen chorus is spliced in from earlier in the song, same with that patch of the video footage, because Freddie didn’t sing that line on one night (his mouth isn’t moving in the original footage) and it’s emphasised differently to the WWRY version. This is the closest we can confirm to an “overdub”, it's really just patching a line in from another part of the same performance.. I agree, I caught that on the original VHS release and then noticed that they corrected the video on the DVD release. I wish they would just keep it raw. ================ Keep what raw? They simply corrected a video edit mistake.
Bad Seed 05.11.2010 17:44
Bad Seed 05.11.2010 17:52	Sir GH wrote: Bad Seed makes a very good argument, but TCC has probably just nailed it - Queen had absolutely no creative control over these releases, so it is very unlikely that they were able to get overdubs of Freddie in there. Even if they could have, why was it necessary? Freddie was on the top of his game in 1981 live, and could sing just about anything he wanted to sing. ======================== The original sound was recorded by Mack, mixed and produced by Mack and Queen. Overdubs (if added) will have been done during the Hot Space session's. I don't think it was nesessary to OD, but maybe Freddie did? I've never been too fond of Freddie's singing on NIH between the Crazy and Hot Space tours, maybe he felt the same? I think Sao Paulo and Hammersmith for eg, are great band performances but the vocal is a bit too 'live'.
Bad Seed 05.11.2010 17:52	Sorry, ignore.
KillerQ 05.11.2010 21:31	Hey all, I was 100% percent certain that there were audio dubs in this concert release from the very first moment I set my eyes on it back in the day when it was released on VHS. I can say this because there are parts of the concert where Roger's drum playing is no consistent with what sound is playing. There are sections where we hear the hi-hat, but he is still playing the riding cymbal, etc.... Oh well.... Later, Matt!
KillerQ 05.11.2010 21:32	Hey all, I was 100% percent certain that there were audio dubs in this concert release from the very first moment I set my eyes on it back in the day when it was released on VHS. I can say this because there are parts of the concert where Roger's drum playing is no consistent with what sound is playing. There are sections where we hear the hi-hat, but he is still playing the riding cymbal, etc.... Oh well.... Later, Matt!
The Real Wizard 05.11.2010 23:26	Bad Seed wrote: The original sound was recorded by Mack, mixed and produced by Mack and Queen. For the 1984 release, you mean? Does it specifically say that? Honestly, I can't picture Queen having had creative control here. The audio was out of synch with the video in so many places on every We Will Rock You release, VHS and DVD. Queen always had the highest of standards for their musical output, and there's no way they would have allowed these glaring errors to be released if they could have done anything about it.
The Real Wizard 05.11.2010 23:27	Gregsynth wrote: 1. Does an audience recording of the 2nd concert exist? Anything's possible. New recordings come out all the time. How come the first night's audience recording on Bob's site has most of the songs--while the one shared here has over half of them removed? This version probably came from Dime, where no official songs are allowed, even if it's from an audience source. So people are forced to remove those songs, as the watchdogs are watching carefully.
The Real Wizard 05.11.2010 23:28	dive2063 wrote: Is there any overdubs on Live Magic official release? There are vocal overdubs in the harmonies One Vision. Brian's voice was later added. Perhaps there are more, but that's the only one that stuck out to me.
The Real Wizard 05.11.2010 23:29	KillerQ wrote: I can say this because there are parts of the concert where Roger's drum playing is no consistent with what sound is playing. There are sections where we hear the hi-hat, but he is still playing the riding cymbal, etc.... Indeed, because the audio and video don't always come from the same night - there were two nights of material to pick from. It was edited by people who were filmmakers, not musicians.
Gregsynth 06.11.2010 00:05	Is there a way to find the "longer" audience source? Or is it now obsolete?
kohuept 06.11.2010 00:15	As has been said before, I think it's very important to not put too much emphasis on audio/video sync with any of the WWRY/Rock Montreal releases. On Killer Queen, the the line that someone suggested Freddie just didn't sing, "Guaranteed to..." I think, check it again because I believe he begins singing "Recommended..." It's been a while, but it was always obvious to me that the video was off. As for Queen not having the opportunity, control, or whatever to make overdubs, check Saul's commentary when he says that the recordings "disappeared" right after filming. Queen took them to fix/overdub...I don't remember his wording. There are a couple of other noticeable dubs in the last WWRY release that stand out when compared to the Rock Montreal release: The end of the BohRhap guitar solo seems to have a few higher notes added to it. John's bass in Dragon Attack sounds looped to me and is much MUCH clearer in the RM release. Either way, to me, there seem to be no overdubs in the Rock Montreal release. Again, to reiterate what someone else said, when there are overdubs, it is almost always possible to hear, leaked underneath the dub, what was actually performed. Good chat!
on my way up 06.11.2010 02:48	Well, if the discussed lines are indeed overdubbed, then it was a very wrong decision. In my opinion that bit in Now I'm here is exactly the one spot where Freddie's voice sounds less enjoyable. I always prefer pure live vocals by the way. That's just what makes collecting roio's so fun, the fact you're listening to something that REALLY happened:-)
emrabt 06.11.2010 03:40	On Killer Queen, the the line that someone suggested Freddie just didn't sing, "Guaranteed to..." I think, check it again because I believe he begins singing "Recommended..." It's been a while, but it was always obvious to me that the video was off. ================================================ Here's what we've been talking about with this, the "guaranteed to" "sways" in from the other night, in the video Freddie clearly isn't moving his mouth. link (if it doesn't work use the link and scroll to 8mins 20 secs. link On rock Montréal this snippet of footage is reused from later in the video. Not an overdub, it's just patching up with what they had. link ========================= Keep what raw? They simply corrected a video edit mistake. ===================================================== Bad seed I think by RAW he meant have queen productions leave the video as it was and use the audio of him not singing rather than reuse that clip. Correcting the audio to match the footage, and not the footage to match the audio as it were.
Bad Seed 06.11.2010 10:27	To reply to the above, I think its more likely Freddie did sing the line but the mistake was made when editing the footage, although I could be wrong of course.
Gregsynth 06.11.2010 10:30	Bad Seed wrote: To reply to the above, I think its more likely Freddie did sing the line but the mistake was made when editing the footage, although I could be wrong of course. I think that's right too. They simply put the wrong video on the audio.
Bad Seed 06.11.2010 10:33	Sir GH wrote: Bad Seed wrote: The original sound was recorded by Mack, mixed and produced by Mack and Queen. For the 1984 release, you mean? Does it specifically say that? Honestly, I can't picture Queen having had creative control here. The audio was out of synch with the video in so many places on every We Will Rock You release, VHS and DVD. Queen always had the highest of standards for their musical output, and there's no way they would have allowed these glaring errors to be released if they could have done anything about it. ================== Actually after having another look today it only says Mack. I think Queen will have mixed the sound but then left Mobilevision to synch it to the footage. Anyway, after many hours of watching and watching again I now have pretty much concrete evidence that Freddie went in the studio sometime in late '81 or '82 record overdubs. Will post soon.
Bad Seed 06.11.2010 11:01	Ok, I've spent many hours today watching both RM, WWRY and listening to the audience recording looking for any evidence of overdubs, and I found some!!! First of all I can't confirm RM has any vocal overdubs but still stand by what I've said in the past! If anything I'm more sure now than I was before. I can confirm that the original WWRY does have vocal overdubs by Freddie. So therefore Freddie has been in the studio at some point before its original release. You will have to listen to all three of the following to understand: The following is from WWRY. Its the same on all versions which I have. Listen to Freddies vocal from 7:28-7:36 link The following is from RM. Listen to the same part from 3:22-3:27 link Hear the difference? Now this could easily be put down switching audio from the 2 nights, but its not! If you listen to the following from Greg's audience recording its different again. Listen 2:45-2:52 link So here we have THREE seperate vocal takes from only two nights. I believe that the WWRY version has the overdub and it was removed for RM. But if you notice on this overdubbed line, Freddie sounds exactly as he does during the songs that I have already mentioned.
emrabt 06.11.2010 11:19	Bad seed, i had a quick listen and they are indeed very different sounding. The WWRY version sounds the worst, and Freddies much louder in that part, and in a completely different part of the stereo field. Judging from the shoddy sound mix through out the rest of WWRY it's probably the overdub. So unless it's some kind of mix of lines from both nights, it's proof....... ================================================================= To reply to the above, I think its more likely Freddie did sing the line but the mistake was made when editing the footage, although I could be wrong of course. ============================================================ Yes looking at it now i see what people are saying, he's mouthing "recommended" and they put the clip in too early. Queen productions patched it up, like the start of now im here.
The Real Wizard 06.11.2010 20:14	Excellent work, Bad Seed ! Excellent x 1000.
Gregsynth 06.11.2010 20:17	So the "original" release has dubs, but the "Rock Montreal" version doesn't? My head's spinning!
Gregsynth 06.11.2010 22:23	And Bad Seed has great ears (I had to add that)!
jamster1111 06.11.2010 23:43	I wonder what other songs WWRY has dubs on...
emrabt 07.11.2010 01:39	So the "original" release has dubs, but the "Rock Montreal" version doesn't? My head's spinning! ========================================================= Probably has less, we can't say for certain that it has No dubs. Depends on what queen productions own really, i doubt a company that threw out all of the footage it cut (Flash and the Hero) would have kept the master tapes from Freddie's overdubs, if they did we wouldn’t have the same sound track and sync issues every WWRY release. I think it's reasonable to guess that when queen productions rebuilt the audio from scratch, they had very little; if not none of the stuff Freddie re-recorded. i think Bad Seed implyed that now im here is still overdubbed though?
Wilki Amieva 07.11.2010 07:33	Bad Seed wrote: The original sound was recorded by Mack, mixed and produced by Mack and Queen. Sir GH wrote: For the 1984 release, you mean? Does it specifically say that? Honestly, I can't picture Queen having had creative control here. The audio was out of synch with the video in so many places on every We Will Rock You release, VHS and DVD. The actual credit says "Concert sound production by Mack". Hmmm... Sir GH wrote: Queen always had the highest of standards for their musical output, and there's no way they would have allowed these glaring errors to be released if they could have done anything about it. Just three words: LIVE IN RIO.
Sebastian 07.11.2010 08:58	And Queen didn't always have the highest standards. They did let some mistakes make it to the final versions (even if that's 0.001% of the cases). The G/F on Fat Bots for instance.
kohuept 07.11.2010 19:17	The audience recording and the RM versions sound the same to me. Am I really the only one who thinks that? What part, specifically (I know it's just a small snippet, but I really can't hear a difference) sounds changed?
YannickJoker 07.11.2010 20:56	kohuept wrote: The audience recording and the RM versions sound the same to me. Am I really the only one who thinks that? No I agree. It sounds the same, but maybe someone can point the difference, if there is any, out to us.
Bad Seed 08.11.2010 05:04	Thanks to Bob and Greg for your kind comments! I still think the RM versions of NIH, JR and BR (rock section only), are overdubbed. However WWRY contains far more overdubs. For the people mentioning 'bleeding', this would not happen. First of all Freddie has'nt overdubbed to alter lines or fix mistakes. I think he has sang the line/song exactly as the original recording, just with more power and aggression. The bleed would not be noticable. Also the Montreal shows seemed to be recorded very dry, with very little ambience. This would make any sound bleed far more difficult to happen. Here are another couple of examples, although nothing concrete: Here is NIH from WWRY, listen from 4:52 'Just a new man'. link I think from 4:52 onwards the song is heavily overdubbed. The word 'eye' at 6:07 is interesting to compare with RM, although I think most people will have already noticed this before. Here it is from RM, listen from 0:49 'Just a new man'. link Here the line 'Just a new man' is left unaltered, and unlike WWRY the overdub starts from 'Yes you made me live again' at 0:52. I think this song is entirely overdubbed until 'eye' at 2:03. I must stress that this is only my opinion, and that I would love to be proved wrong. But he sings this song, BR, and JR exactly like the overdubbed line in SHA.
Gregsynth 08.11.2010 17:28	That is true about the ambience of the Rock Montreal record. My guess is that if Freddie did re-sing those lines you mentioned, he must have sung them identical (or very similar) over the original audio--because if you sing the same line over a recording, you can get that "phasing" or "chorus" effect (from slight differences in pitch, etc). I don't hear that effect on those lines--though I do notice that more "aggressive" tone you are talking about. I ain't ruling out the overdub theory, I'm just making alternative points.
Gus Mercury 08.11.2010 20:39	Overdub is an interesting issue... everybody does it... Well, the WWRY (Montreal) has two nights sampled and that's why we have different voices and chords. The VHS version is terrible, with too much treble and no bass, the voice in BH is "screaming and thin" (sorry, I don't know english very well) and only the new DVD (and Blu-ray) version corrects it. And, by the way, who is "Brandon" or something like that in the middle of Jailhouse Rock? That's what Fred said after listening Brian too close: "What... Brandon!". Live Killers is a overdubed record but, for me, the best ever recorded. We did not have the videos of the shows in Brazil, so I could imagine by the pictures f the vinil how was the atmosphere... Lucky people those who saw them in 1979/1980...
Gus Mercury 08.11.2010 20:53	And Wembley... well, I have a CD with the original version. I couldn't find overdubs, but a lot of mixing that corrects some errors... Are these new softwares (protools, etc) an overdub or not? Mercury was always great, as you can check at Hartford record (1980) and Live Aid (1985). And it is hard to compare his voice during the years - 1979, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986 - once young and then, when he was over 40, years of smoking cigarretes and becoming ill. At Wembley he said in the first night that he has a sore throat or something else between one song and another and it was rainning, fog, cold wind, London wheater, etc.
kohuept 09.11.2010 10:05	@ Gus Freddie says "We're gonna end it" (meaning the song) in Jailhouse Rock. He clearly wasn't please with the reaction of the crowd or interference from the cameras.
Yara 10.11.2010 03:51	Bad Seed wrote: Thanks to Bob and Greg for your kind comments! I still think the RM versions of NIH, JR and BR (rock section only), are overdubbed. However WWRY contains far more overdubs. For the people mentioning 'bleeding', this would not happen. First of all Freddie has'nt overdubbed to alter lines or fix mistakes. I think he has sang the line/song exactly as the original recording, just with more power and aggression. The bleed would not be noticable. Also the Montreal shows seemed to be recorded very dry, with very little ambience. This would make any sound bleed far more difficult to happen. Here are another couple of examples, although nothing concrete: Here is NIH from WWRY, listen from 4:52 'Just a new man'. link I think from 4:52 onwards the song is heavily overdubbed. The word 'eye' at 6:07 is interesting to compare with RM, although I think most people will have already noticed this before. Here it is from RM, listen from 0:49 'Just a new man'. link Here the line 'Just a new man' is left unaltered, and unlike WWRY the overdub starts from 'Yes you made me live again' at 0:52. I think this song is entirely overdubbed until 'eye' at 2:03. I must stress that this is only my opinion, and that I would love to be proved wrong. But he sings this song, BR, and JR exactly like the overdubbed line in SHA. Interesting. You definitely have a point here, there's a clear and very noticeable difference in tone (color) between these two excerpts from NIM. It does seem to point out to some kind of overdub, though it's hard to know without listening to the raw recordings of both nights.
Isle0fRed 10.11.2010 16:19	Well the video from WWRY is supior than monteral minus Killer Queen The audio is supior on monteral In my opinion, i think Swimmer brought back the band (or fred) for overdubs, and because Q were still mad, they put little to no effort in the overdubs. it is a known fact that Queen (or brian) recorded everyshow since 1973, and the audio for rock monteral would of come from the original audio source remember in the end, the whole gig was a quick cash in so swimmer wouldnt care much for 5.1 audio, the sterio would do just fine
Isle0fRed 10.11.2010 16:38	thou in terms of the arguement of the director and the band i do believe that members of Queen were harsh towards Swimmer. Cos think of it like this, Queen are like actors. in terms of filmwise, actors are renowned for being real dickheads (pardon my french) they want things to work for them, they say everything evoles around them, and they'll often use the excuse of walking off set as a threat. Personlly i think Queen did this concert for the money and just did not like working under someone else for a change. as a film maker myself, doing film making at my uni, i relise how much power we have, being realistic, the people with the least amount of power is the actors (or Queen in this discussion) yes both strive for perfection and in Swimmers eyes, what was got wasnt perfection. hense why he would of had fred do overdubbs in the end both Directors and musicians are often renowned for being difficult to work with, thou in terms of a battle, the director always wins
The Real Wizard 15.11.2010 00:40	Bad Seed wrote: Listen to Freddies vocal from 7:28-7:36 link Listen carefully from 7:33 to 7:35. You can hear the original vocal (the one heard on Rock Montreal) underneath. It's very faint, but it's there. It's probably from the drum mics picking up the lead vocal in the monitors, so it couldn't be removed. So it is now undebatable - there are vocal overdubs on the Montreal releases. And it seems some of the overdubs - but not all - were removed for Rock Montreal. Bad Seed, please send me an email. I'd like to properly credit you on my website for your fine work.
Gregsynth 15.11.2010 01:33	Damn, I gotta get Bad Seed into the Queen live Skype debate! If he can uncover dubs like that--imagine a debate!
Holly2003 15.11.2010 02:35	Sir GH wrote: Bad Seed wrote: Listen to Freddies vocal from 7:28-7:36 link Listen carefully from 7:33 to 7:35. You can hear the original vocal (the one heard on Rock Montreal) underneath. It's very faint, but it's there. It's probably from the drum mics picking up the lead vocal in the monitors, so it couldn't be removed. So it is now undebatable - there are vocal overdubs on the Montreal releases. And it seems some of the overdubs - but not all - were removed for Rock Montreal. Bad Seed, please send me an email. I'd like to properly credit you on my website for your fine work. I've been saying this for ages only I used the eample of Tie Your Mother Down, on which you can quite clearly hear two Freddie vocals -- the main one, which is the studio version, and the real one which can be faintly heard underneath..
Bad Seed 15.11.2010 05:53	Have sent you an email Bob, thanks! As for Skype? Maybe I'll give it a bash someday?
Gregsynth 15.11.2010 08:19	Yeah! It's Skype! I got a topic in the personal section concerning the debate!
Gregsynth 15.11.2010 22:48	There's also dubs on "Let Me Entertain You" Compare: link (We Will Rock You) 5:19 TO link 0:38
The Real Wizard 15.11.2010 23:45	I don't know how much spare time you guys have on your hands, but I'm sure you'll find dozens of examples.
Chief Mouse 13.09.2014 03:33	What about "come through"? I've made a compare. 1st you hear is from 2001 DVD We Will Rock You 2nd is Rock Montreal 3rd is Live At The Bowl We Will Rock You sounds different from Rock Montreal, that's for sure. I assume Rock Montreal has this overdubbed? If so I assume it comes from Milton Keynes, it sounds almost exactly the same but slightly tweaked - in Rock Montreal Freddie goes something like "trouuuuuugha" but in Milton Keynes he doesn't end with an "a" if that makes sense.
Nitroboy 13.09.2014 05:07	Just to clarify: The track where Freddie's original live vocals can be heard underneath the overdubs on Rock Montreal, comes from the audience mic track :)
rocknrolllover 13.09.2014 14:24	jamster1111 wrote: You have this all incorrect. There are absolutely no dubs on Montreal. The reason why he may sound different in parts is because they switched nights. You also got it wrong when saying the recording of BR is from the second night. It is from the first night. The only reason why it sounds like it may be an overdub is because the performance is nearly flawless and so spectacular that it could seem to good to be true. However, this is no shock because it was late 1981 and Freddie's voice was known for being in amazing shape then. Here's a guide to overdubs on Queen concerts: Rainbow 1974: Overdubs on background vocals on some songs Hammersmith 1975: No overdubs Hyde Park 1976: No overdubs Earls Court 1977: No overdubs Houston 1977: No overdubs Live Killers Album: Tons of overdubs on background vocals and even some lead parts Paris 1979: No overdubs Tokyo 1979: No overdubs obviously lol :) Hammersmith 1979: No overdubs Buenos Aires 1981: No overdubs Sao Paulo 1981: No overdubs Caracas 1981: No overdubs Montreal 1981: No overdubs Milton Keynes 1982: The only overdub is on Fat Bottomed Girls on the "locality" line Tokorozawa 1982: No overdubs Rock in Rio 1985: No overdubs Tokyo 1985: No overdubs Live Aid: No overdubs Live At Wembley (More like "Dubbed at Wembley") 1986: Overdubs all over the place. Lead overdubs on songs such as One Vision, A Kind of Magic, Who Wants to Live Forever, I Want to Break Free, Radio Ga Ga, Friends will be Friends, We Are the Champions Budapest 1986: Overdub on under pressure on the line "higher higher and high!" at the end of the second verse/chorus Rainbow overdubbed? For God's sake! announce the full list of overdubs!!
bitesthedust 07.10.2015 13:55	So was the crowd vocal on Love Of My Life added in afterwards too?
Day dop 16.10.2015 05:19	Is Play The Game overdubbed in any way from the We Will Rock You video? I remember being a kid and thinking it sounded like it'd been recorded over in the studio - and that was before I knew anything about overdubbing. link
Vocal harmony 16.10.2015 07:03	Isle0fRed wrote: thou in terms of the arguement of the director and the band i do believe that members of Queen were harsh towards Swimmer. Cos think of it like this, Queen are like actors. in terms of filmwise, actors are renowned for being real dickheads (pardon my french) they want things to work for them, they say everything evoles around them, and they'll often use the excuse of walking off set as a threat. Personlly i think Queen did this concert for the money and just did not like working under someone else for a change. as a film maker myself, doing film making at my uni, i relise how much power we have, being realistic, the people with the least amount of power is the actors (or Queen in this discussion) yes both strive for perfection and in Swimmers eyes, what was got wasnt perfection. hense why he would of had fred do in the end both Directors and musicians are often renowned for being difficult to work with, thou in terms of a battle, the director always wins Not sure about this. Remember that they worked in the studio with Roy Thomas Baker, and at the time of Monteal Mack. I think they were fully capable of working with a director or producer. They may have had ideas about what shots should be used to capture certain elements of the show but at the end of the day I also think that they realized they were not film makers.
Chief Mouse 16.10.2015 07:50	Day dop wrote: Is Play The Game overdubbed in any way from the We Will Rock You video? I remember being a kid and thinking it sounded like it'd been recorded over in the studio - and that was before I knew anything about overdubbing. link Yep, check this video I made. I synced the center channel from WWRY DVD to the video. Check 0:15, 1:13. Maybe there are a couple more, but these seemed the most obvious to me. .
The Real Wizard 16.10.2015 23:31	Chief Mouse wrote: Yep, check this video I made. I synced the center channel from WWRY DVD to the video. Check 0:15, 1:13. Maybe there are a couple more, but these seemed the most obvious to me. Jesus, wow. Clear as day. Well done.
The Real Wizard 16.10.2015 23:32	bitesthedust wrote: So was the crowd vocal on Love Of My Life added in afterwards too? Yup.
Oscar J 17.10.2015 05:44	The Play The Game overdub at 1:13 is still present in Rock Montreal. Love the drum sound from the WWRY release - the kick has a nice click to it which they appear to have EQ'ed away for Rock Montreal.
Chief Mouse 17.10.2015 07:03	Oscar J wrote: The Play The Game overdub at 1:13 is still present in Rock Montreal. I do like it though. Sounds powerful. And when I first heard it I had no idea it was actually an overdub.
Oscar J 17.10.2015 09:30	I like it too! I'm one of those non-purist listeners that care less about whether what we hear is exactly what was played that night, and more about the listening experience. If Queen decided they needed to overdub a few things to be happy with the product, then there's probably a good reason for it. Hell, I can even accept careful pitch correcting of really sour notes - the only thing I have a problem with is the robotic sound of blatant autotuning, really.
Chief Mouse 17.10.2015 09:40	Oscar J wrote: I like it too! I'm one of those non-purist listeners that care less about whether what we hear is exactly what was played that night, and more about the listening experience. If Queen decided they needed to overdub a few things to be happy with the product, then there's probably a good reason for it. Hell, I can even accept careful pitch correcting of really sour notes - the only thing I have a problem with is the robotic sound of blatant autotuning, really. I fully agree. If an overdub is done well (so that a non hardcore fan doesn't notice) then I think it can enhance the performance, and to me, in case of Play The Game, it does. I think Wembley was overdubbed so bad it's obvious, it doesn't blend in but sounds like it's placed on top of the original instead. Yeah, that obvious autotuning sound is obnoxious.

QueenZone discussion #1247054

Why I think Montreal is overdubbed