QueenZone discussion #1246327
Do these demos exist?
| Jam Monkey 27.10.2010 14:29 |
As I've mentioned here I am trying to put together an up to date and accurate guide to unreleased Queen recordings. While I am able to do about 90% of this myself I do some help with some tracks I've heard of over the year, but that aren't in my collection. Therefore I would like to know if anyone has any information on these tracks. It is possible these exsist, or maybe there just rummours, but to make my guide as accurate as possible I would like your help. If you don't wish to post publically please contact me at jam_monkey@hotmail.com, and any information will be treated confidentially. I will be sharing information about 10 uncirculated recordings in my collection, and it would be nice if others could do the same. As well as these tracks I'd also like to hear of any uncirculated demos not on this list. Thanks. Rock n’ Roll Medley Hangman I Do Like To Be Beside The Seaside Batteries Not Included Play The Game (With Andy Gibb) Whipping Boy Is This The World We Created (Piano Version) Love Kills (Queen Version) There Must Be More To Life Than This (Queen Version) Man On Fire (Queen Version) Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version) Friends In Pain Brother Of Mine Assassin Freedom Train (Queen Version) Say It’s Not True (Original Version) Convention Recordings: You Take My Breath Away Fight From The Inside Dragon Attack Man Made Paradise Party The Invisible Man Breakthru Rain Must Fall (Full Version) Too Much Love Will Kill You Headlong Ride The Wild Wind Face It Alone (Full Version) |
| rhyeking 27.10.2010 16:12 |
Jam Monkey wrote: As well as these tracks I'd also like to hear of any uncirculated demos not on this list. Thanks. Rhyeking adds: I may be wrong, but off the top of my head, here's what I've read... Rock n’ Roll Medley = an acetate has been reported, presumably QPL has a copy now Hangman = same as above I Do Like To Be Beside The Seaside = I thought they only recorded the bit for SSOR Batteries Not Included Play The Game (With Andy Gibb) = rumored to exist since at least 1995 Whipping Boy = Could be "I Go Crazy", but no one seems to know Is This The World We Created (Piano Version) = probably in the vault on the master tape Love Kills (Queen Version) = Confirmed in the FM boxed set, started as a Queen demo, finished by Freddie (retaining B&R's work) There Must Be More To Life Than This (Queen Version) = also confirmed in the FM boxed set Man On Fire (Queen Version) = As with "Whipping Boy" only reported on the infamous cassette sleeve found in a shoe box Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version) Friends In Pain = I have my doubts about this song ever existing, as mentioned in another thread Brother Of Mine Assassin Freedom Train (Queen Version) Say It’s Not True (Original Version) = There was a version recorded for the 46664 phone-in offer thing. It hasn't surfaced as far as I know |
| GinjaNinja 27.10.2010 18:08 |
I think the rumour of "Play The Game (With Andy Gibb)" probably stems from the Spring 1980 Fan Club Magazine. In a section about the upcoming album, it says "Staying at the same hotel in Germany were Andy Gibb and Leif Garrat and so the boys invited them to visit the studio during recording. The band were putting the finishing touches to a backing track when Freddie insisted that Andy Gibb sing with them. The track, as yet untitled, is one of Freddie's compositions and he was very impressed with Andy's voice and was heard to remark how good it was." By this time, "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" had already been released as a single. This can mean that Andy recorded on "Play The Game" or "Don't Try Suicide", the former being more likely, as I can't imagine a member of the Bee Gees singing along to the latter! It could also have been a track which didn't end up on the album, but this is unlikely if they were putting the finishing touches to it. As for the others, I have no idea! |
| GinjaNinja 27.10.2010 18:13 |
These sites have very little bits of information about some of the tracks, whether they are true or not is another matter however. link link link QueenVault has some information about a few of the convention demos. link |
| GinjaNinja 27.10.2010 18:34 |
Sorry for the triple post, but I've just been delving into my memory banks. Rock n’ Roll Medley - A one sided 10" Trident Acetate. Pressed around the same time as Hangman. Hangman - A one sided 10" Trident Acetate. Pressed around the same time as Rock n' Roll Medley. I Do Like To Be Beside The Seaside - Recorded during the SHA sessions, intended by Freddie to open the album. Batteries Not Included - Rumoured to be from the NOTW sessions. Play The Game (With Andy Gibb) - See my above post. Whipping Boy - I seem to recall this being an early title for I Go Crazy, but don't quote me on that one! Hot Space sessions? Also part of an early tracklisting for The Works. Is This The World We Created (Piano Version) - A piano track was reportedly recorded, but was subsequently lost. Love Kills (Queen Version) - The Works Sessions? There Must Be More To Life Than This (Queen Version) - The Works Sessions? Man On Fire (Queen Version) - Part of an early tracklisting for The Works. Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version) - Magic Sessions? Friends In Pain - Magic Sessions? This is purely a guess, but could it have had something to do with FWBF or PISCTP before Freddie came and helped John with them? Brother Of Mine - Never heard of this one. Assassin - Rumoured to be an early demo of Innuendo. Freedom Train (Queen Version) - Innuendo Sessions A lot of this information comes from posts and articles by John S. Stuart. (I think!) Some of it may just be rumour. |
| Jam Monkey 28.10.2010 04:11 |
Thanks alot for this information, this gives me some interesting ideas to pursue. I hadn't heard of the Andy Gibb rummour comming from the fan club magazine, goor memmory! |
| Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira 28.10.2010 06:13 |
Hi, Jam Monkey. Thank you for your contribution to the community. You are doing a great job making demos available in a centralized and organized way. This thread is also of great importance. BTW, is there a reason why you did not include Let Me Live (With Rod Stewart) and Victory (With Michael Jackson)? I may have missed some information that was shared here before, but I don't remember those being confirmed. Cheers, Ogre- |
| Sebastian 28.10.2010 06:14 |
> This can mean that Andy recorded on "Play The Game" or "Don't Try Suicide", the former being more likely, as I can't imagine a member of the Bee Gees singing along to the latter! Technically, Andy wasn't a member of the Bee Gees, but a solo artist right from the start. Moreover, there's not a rule against pop singers doing backing vocals on a pop song anyway. > It could also have been a track which didn't end up on the album, but this is unlikely if they were putting the finishing touches to it. They were putting finishing touches to the backing track... it could've been a song they had intended to go on the album but later on got discarded if they didn't like the overdubs or if they felt there wasn't enough space, etc, etc, etc. To sum up: it could have easily been Play the Game, it could've just as easily been something else (including DTS). > I Do Like To Be Beside The Seaside - Recorded during the SHA sessions, intended by Freddie to open the album. Have you got any source for this info? > Love Kills (Queen Version) - The Works Sessions? What would be the difference between the Queen version and the one Fred released? Just the bass? > Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version) - Magic Sessions? Roger mentioned (AG commentary) that he first recorded it with The Cross (which is when Fred visited them and sang it), and many years later reworked it with Brian for MIH. So, unless Roger's memory failed (while it's positively eidetic compared to Brian's, it's not perfect [nobody's is]), the whole 'Magic' thing is just an urban legend. > Friends In Pain - Magic Sessions? This is purely a guess, but could it have had something to do with FWBF or PISCTP before Freddie came and helped John with them? It could've also been the other way around: started by Fred and called like that before John came and lent a hand. |
| Holly2003 28.10.2010 07:56 |
If Assassin is definitely a song title from the Innuendo era, it's possible, given the common theme, it was nothing more than a working title for The Hitman. Of course, if it exists, it's also possible it's a different song entirely. |
| GinjaNinja 28.10.2010 10:22 |
@Sebastian: 1. I think I read about "I Do Like To Be..." in one of JSS's "Ultimate Collection" threads, it's also mentioned in Queenpedia's "Sessionography". 2. Love Kills (Queen Version) is actually a Roger Taylor track from The Works Sessions, completely unrelated to Freddie's solo song. This information again comes from one of JSS's "Ultimate Collection" threads (which I just took another look at). 3. Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version) was apparently started in 1986 for the Highlander movie, but ultimately left until Roger's "The Cross" sessions ins 1987. Info again from JSS. 4. Friends In Pain sounds more like a John title to me, but that's purely my opinion. It could easily have been started by either of them, or could have been something completely different! I'm not stating any of this as solid facts btw, just posting things I have read and remember from different places. |
| FriedChicken 28.10.2010 10:36 |
Some Spanish fan on Queenzone about 10 years ago claimed to have a Miracle era song called 'Brother of Mine' He was unable/unwilling to provide us with proof, which makes it porkies in my book. Also stuff like 'Woe', 'City of the Fireflies' and other names that popped up on Wikipedia over the last couple of years seem bogus to me. If stuff like this existed it would seem logical that those names would appear here first, as there are some really high-profile collectors on here. |
| GinjaNinja 28.10.2010 10:53 |
Those rumoured demos have such brilliant titles! Particularly the purported "Deep Ridge" and "Surrender To The City". I seem to recall some of them being mentioned in Mick Rock's "Killer Queen" book. It's possible that some of these were just working titles, akin to "Wooly Hat (Back Chat)" and "Psycho Legs (Death On Two Legs)". |
| Jam Monkey 28.10.2010 12:05 |
Ogre - Thanks for reminding me about the Rod Stewart track. I haven't included Victory because at this stage I am just concentrating on Queen, solo demos will follow if this goes well. |
| rhyeking 28.10.2010 21:47 |
Some more thoughts, in no particular order... "Seaside": First I heard of it was this thread. GinjaNinja, I think, said it was reported to have been planned to start SHA. It's plausible and on the actual album, someone is heard whistling "Seaside" during the Carnival music. And no, this whistling is NOT on the original sound effect track Queen used. Maybe the original plan was to have "Seaside", but they changed it to the Carnival music. "Friends In Pain": I still think this is a myth, with someone figuring the two JD collaborations must have begun as one demo track, because three JD tracks on an album seems to come without precedent (the most he'd previously had was two). I do believe it was confirmed (either by Freddie or John) that John started both FWBF and PISCTP and Freddie helped finish them. "Heaven": I agree with Sebastian, I think a proper Queen demo is wishful thinking. At most, a Roger demo may exist from that era, but I don't think Freddie and/or Queen got near it. All anecdotal evidence points to Freddie first singing it during the Shove It sessions. "Love Kills": Not sure how different the Queen early versions would be compared to the finished Freddie version. It could have been rockier/heavier or very similar. "Love Kills" sounds a lot like "Radio Ga Ga", which could be coincidence or because of Roger's programmed drums. "Love Kills", to me, also sounds a lot like the Mr. Bad Guy material, with layered percussion and synths. However, the Strange Frontier material is stylistically in a similar place at The Works, "Love Kills" and Mr. Bad Guy (which only lacks the sci-fi themes). Since the projects all seem to be feeding off each other at the time, it's hard to say. It's part of why this period fascinates me. |
| GinjaNinja 29.10.2010 03:51 |
Your "Friends In Pain" explanation sounds very plausible, I forgot John wrote more songs on that album, but he did have the help of Freddie with them though. But, as we know (for certain) nothing but the name and era, we can say it probably doesn't exist. Regarding "Seaside", it may just be what they recorded for SSOR before bouncing and mixing it in. Or, if it was intended to start SHA, Freddie probably had to compromise with Brian, and relented into just having the whistle. |
| Shaving Foamasi 29.10.2010 04:34 |
I see the "Seaside" thing as being related to Freddie's apparent wish to have Seven Seas of Rhye... finsihing the first album and starting the second. Either he wanted to get his way so that "Seaside" finished Queen II and started SHA or someone made it up - confusing it with the SSOR story... |
| Sebastian 29.10.2010 06:45 |
@ FWBF & PISCTP: I think the whole thing about John starting both songs and having Fred helping him out with them comes from Phoebe's book, which IMO is not quite the most reliable source when it comes to those details. @ Assassin: I agree with Holly. It could've also been something lost in translation (e.g. if you translate 'hitman' to Japanese and then translate the resulting word [??] to English, you'll wind up with 'assassin' or 'killer' - at least in my dictionary, but via Babelfish it doesn't happen and the term is different [???] but incorrect). As a side note, if you use Babelfish and translate 'master stroke' to Greek and then back to English you get 'gentleman blow'... that'd be a lousy title IMO. @ Fly By Night, Deep Ridge and Surrender to the City: Last year, Brian claimed in his website that none of those would have existed. However, you know the thing about Dr May's memory (he also claimed to never have played a V on stage, It's Late on stage, and suggested Freddie didn't use Steinway pianos). @ Heaven for Everyone: Indeed, serveral (not completely related) sources point at Freddie working on it when visiting The Cross (or running into them at one of the studios used for both that and Barcelona), having some drinks and singing it, probably not being intended for release (with his voice) at first, but more for the sake of it. If so, it was definitely not for AKOM. Roger's claim also points at that, and while his memory isn't perfect (nobody's is), it's positively eidetic compared to Brian's. @ Shaving Foamasi: I couldn't agree more. |
| cmsdrums 29.10.2010 07:15 |
I clearly recall Roger saying in interviews that Heaven For Everyone was written originally for Joan Armatrading to sing (though whether still to go on The Cross LP but with guest vocalist, or in her own right I don't know). I thought that it was only after she said that she didn't like it (which probably confirms there is a Roger demo that he played her), that Freddie was brought in for the lead vocals. In light of this, my belief is that it was never a Queen song. Does anyone know if Freddie recorded his vocal before Roger's version (as per the single & US LP version), or was it the other way around? I've always thought that Roger's vocal was done first, because the arrangement, instrumentation and mix of that version always sounds a bit less polished and finished than the Freddie version on the UK Shove It! album. Any thoughts? Cheers |
| GinjaNinja 29.10.2010 07:23 |
Found a bit of info about these convention demos, may not be completely accurate. Convention Recordings: You Take My Breath Away - Freddie on piano and vocals, in the studio with Mike Stone. Fight From The Inside - Similar to the album version, but a different vocal take with slightly altered lyrics. Dragon Attack - Mostly instrumental with the bass loop, some guitar and vocal shouts. Maybe from the Jazz Sessions Man Made Paradise - Short (50 second) demo, very similar to Freddie's solo demos (which were not included in the solo collection for this reason). Party - Standalone version without the segue into Khashoggi's Ship. The Invisible Man - Roger's guide vocal, early version. Breakthru - Quick and heavy instrumental with a pounding drumbeat. Rain Must Fall (Full Version) - ? Is this a longer version of the one circulating that is cut at the end? Too Much Love Will Kill You - Brian's guide vocal with Freddie singing over the top. Headlong - Bass, Drum machine and Brian's guide vocal. 5 mins. I think this is the same as the one we have but without Freddie. Ride The Wild Wind - Instrumental demo with lots of drums. Face It Alone (Full Version) - 3 different parts totalling 10 minutes. |
| FriedChicken 29.10.2010 14:04 |
About the Rain Must Fall version that is going round, I believe Greg said it was a version where all the vocals recorded for the track were put in the mix. For some reason I find that hard to believe. The formants of some of the vocals sound shifted, like they were put through a vocoder and have the original vocal line mapped to the keys played on a keyboard. I believe the intro of Driven by You was also done that way. Can anyone with more experience with vocoders and similar effects confirm this? |
| GinjaNinja 29.10.2010 15:46 |
I think he said this about the track "It's a bit of a mess all this stuff because you've got all the vocal tracks up in the mix (referring to RMF and the Khashoggi's Ship demo that preceded it in the playback session), so you're hearing eight days' work at once, which would never normally happen. They'd go back, listen to a vocal track, say 'That's not good enough, do some more, lose that one', but here we've got all tracks up in the mix, and that's why it sounds like a mess." It definitely sounds like there is some vocoder work going on in there, especially the descending "must fall" about halfway through. He actually says before the track plays, "we're running short of time, we might cut it after 1 or 2 minutes" or something to that effect, so a full version might not have been played/recorded. He also states that the full version is about 4 minutes. |
| andreas_mercury 30.10.2010 02:18 |
hangman acetete does NOT exist ....... it is a total hoax |
| GinjaNinja 30.10.2010 04:18 |
Any credible source for that info? |
| Jam Monkey 30.10.2010 05:12 |
Rain Must Fall is definatly cut, the shared version is only 1.10 long. I've been told the full version 2.11, but the person who claimed to have it refused to trade or share. |
| Bohardy 30.10.2010 06:42 |
As Sebastian mentioned Fly By Night, Deep Ridge, and Surrender To The City, I thought I'd chime in on the subject, as I have done many times here in the past. These three songs are absolutely the fabrications of a wind up merchant that used to post here years ago, that went by the incredibly serious and credible name of The Left Testicle of Freddie. The very first mention anywhere (online or otherwise) that I'm aware of of three purported demos from the Queen II sessions was in a post made by The Left Testicle of Freddie on 9 August 2004. You can find it here: /queenzone/375315.html If you care to look at the posting history of TLToF, you'll see that he burst onto the site with mildly believable insider info. Supposedly he was in contact with Brian's crew and the like, and he provided the kind of info that us fans love to hear. But his claims soon got more and more outlandish, and it became increasingly apparent that this was just someone having a laugh winding people up - and he didn't care who knew it. By the time of his later posts, it was so obviously all a load of bullshit there was absolutely no reason to believe anything he'd previously said. And as he was the originator of the Fly By Night, Deep Ridge and Surrender To The City titles, there's no reason to believe they are anything but fantasy. But, the internet being what it is, these made-up titles got around, and their origins were soon forgotten, or not researched. And incredibly, it got to the point where Brian even commented on his Soapbox about their non-existence. A fairly successful wind up, I'm sure. (Oh yeah, there was quite a debate at the time that TLToF was actually Greg...). |
| Bohardy 30.10.2010 06:46 |
...and I would agree with Niek. There's no way the Rain Must Fall demo is a vocal slave (such as is seen on a version of Barcelona on the Freddie box). It's definitely some kind of vocoder thing, or whatever it is that Bri uses on Driven By You. |
| Sebastian 30.10.2010 07:05 |
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence... if Hangman hasn't surfaced on-line it doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist. Regarding Fly by Night et. al., what I find quite shocking is that (IIRC) even Mick Rock bought it and published it on a very respectable book. How good was his quality control? That's why a project like this one is very important and necessary... people often believe word of mouth and pass it as fact. |
| Jam Monkey 30.10.2010 14:54 |
Can anyone point me to a source that says Queen definatly recorded Say It's Not True with Paul Rodgers? I've always taken it for granted that they did, but I'd like to point to a source in my guide. Thanks |
| Jam Monkey 31.10.2010 06:28 |
Queen: Keep Yourself Alive (De Lane Lea Demo) 3:44 Status: Shared Link: link Just testing... |
| Jam Monkey 31.10.2010 06:29 |
Queen: Keep Yourself Alive (De Lane Lea Demo) 3:44 Status: Shared Link: link Great King Rat (De Lane Lea Demo) 6:07 Status: Shared Link: link Great King Rat (Convention Version 1) 3:39 Status: Shared Link: link |
| Simulator 13.11.2010 17:24 |
Maybe something like a 'Seaside' song idea for SHA really existed, than I guess Freddie changed/improved his original idea and made "Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon" and/or "Seaside Rendezvous" out of it. |