| MmP 23.09.2010 21:18 |
Any clue on the meaning of the lyrics?. Pretty odd lyrics coming from young starter Brian, but it's really deep. The music, the special touch Freddie gives. I think he gave it depth with his voice. Brian singing it would have killed it. Any thought on this one? |
| rhyeking 23.09.2010 23:55 |
I always liked this song. I never gave a lot of thought to the lyrics and any deep meaning. It seems to me to be about expectations and whether we can live up to them, be they the expectations of ourselves or those we feel from other people, and the expectations we have of the world and the people in our lives. We have parents who expect great things from us, friends who expect our support and a world that expects us to contribute. All of those are external, and we buried under all that we have our own goals and desires, and we try to reconcile them all, which isn't easy. I've heard it said it's a song about teen angst. I'll buy that, as it still relates to my thoughts on the song. Teens feel that pressure more acutely ("be this!" "be that!" "succeed!" "get good grades!" "get a part-time job!"). |
| pittrek 24.09.2010 08:49 |
I always thought that Brian's mother wanted a daughter and made him "feel it" when he was young :-) That would explain lyrics to some of his songs (e.g. Son And Daughter, Night Comes Down, Tie Your Mother Down ...) |
| tcc 24.09.2010 09:19 |
pittrek wrote: I always thought that Brian's mother wanted a daughter and made him "feel it" when he was young :-) That would explain lyrics to some of his songs (e.g. Son And Daughter, Night Comes Down, Tie Your Mother Down ...) Another example is Sail Away Sweet Sister :-) |
| rhyeking 24.09.2010 10:09 |
Outside of the the one lyric (and by default, the title), I don't see any "sister" connection. I think that's stretching it (and assuming a level of autobiography which isn't nessecarily there), but that's just my opinion. Here the lyrics: *** I want you... Tried to be a son and daughter rolled into one You said you'd equal any man for having your fun Now didn't you feel surprised to find The cap just didn't fit (Edit)The world expects a man To buckle down and to shovel shit What'll you do for loving When it's only just begun? I want you to be a woman Tried to be a teacher and a fisher of men An equal people preacher Will you lead us all the same? Well I travelled all round the world and found A brand new word for day Watching the time mustn't linger behind Pardon me I have to get away What'll you think of heaven If it's back from where you came? I want you to be a woman I want you to be a woman yeah Babe, you know I'm gonna save the world! I've just begun... *** |
| tcc 24.09.2010 19:45 |
rhyeking wrote: Outside of the the one lyric (and by default, the title), I don't see any "sister" connection. I think that's stretching it (and assuming a level of autobiography which isn't nessecarily there), but that's just my opinion. In the lyrics booklet of The Game CD, there is an extension (To The Sister I Never Had) to the song title Sail Away Sweet Sister. I thought the extension to the song title was in line with the above joke/comment that his mother had wanted a daughter and made him "feel it". |
| rhyeking 24.09.2010 20:49 |
Not saying you're wrong, tcc, I'm just saying it seems to me to be a stretch. I'm aware of the dedication on "Sail Away Sweet Sister" and it certainly applies to that song, but I think it does Brian a disservice as a songwriter to guess that some songs are autobiographical when they may simply be Brian writing as a character. Only Brian knows for sure. But hey, I could be wrong. |
| tcc 24.09.2010 21:31 |
I take the comment about his mother wanting a daughter etc to be a joke about Brian and I was just adding to it. |
| *goodco* 24.09.2010 21:39 |
I always that it was written to a supervisor at a wastewater treatment plant |
| GratefulFan 24.09.2010 22:06 |
Slight correction to Rhyeking's lyrics: I think it's "the world expects a man to buckle down and shovel shit', not "the woman expects a man..." I think one take on the song is that it reflects the feminist movement raging at the time and how he perceived it to have propelled women, or perhaps one woman, to places he didn't like or was uncomfortable with. 'Son and Daughter' to me is just 'Man and Woman', and he feels resentment or disquiet or sadness or something surrounding some of the aggressive social changes of the time. His was the first generation of 20 something men that had to deal directly with a fairly radical and new face of feminism. He wants his woman to be a woman, whatever that meant to him. Lots of clear and fairly literal references to this possibility I think. Themes too of cautioning that a woman might feel disillusioned with where she finds herself at the end of it all, - the references to shovelling shit and wondering what she'll think if she finds that she was happier before in the 'what will you think of heaven if it's back from where you came'. Here's snip from an interview in 1976: Circus: Are you more influenced by males or females? Brian: In music, most of them have been males like Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Clapton and the blues people that preceded them. Circus: There really aren't too many female guitarists. Brian: I wonder why. Someone's sure going to do something about it soon. In England, if you're going to advertise for a guitarist, you have to take female ones as well. That's because we now have equal rights for women. For once in me life I agree with the Pope. It's all gone too far. But at the same time it's all probably necessary to go too far in order to find the balance. I'd hate men and women to be the same though. That's my idea of a nightmare world. The duality of the male-female is the whole thing. In a way the latter part of his last remark is what I was talking about the other day in the personal section about it being a post feminism thing to be able to comfortably appreciate the differences between men and women. To be equal but not the same. That full interview is here: http://queen.musichall.cz/en/interviews/brian-may-circus-magazine-76.html |
| mike hunt 25.09.2010 00:37 |
Decent song, though not the most original Queen song. The first 7 songs on queen 1 ruled, but towards the end it lost a bit of steam. Son and daughter, jesus, and SSOR were good but not as awsome as the earlier songs. What the song was about I have no idea. |
| rhyeking 25.09.2010 09:27 |
Yes, GF, you're correct. That's what I get for cutting and pasting off a Lyric website in a hurry at work. However, Freddie DOES sing "A woman expects a man..." on the BBC version (3rd Session) at the beginning, so that probably what I was thinking of and why I didn't notice. Here is a question for those who know more about Queen early live career: Was "Son And Daughter" home to the guitar solo in the live set, circa 1972-1973, the same way it was on the BBC Sessions? I have the Rainbow bootleg (March 31st, 1974) and it also features the solo in S&D, so by then it was sort of part of the song (Freddie also sings "woman" here too, interestingly). I wonder if they ever considered including the guitar solo in S&D on the debut album or if it didn't live there yet when they were recording the album in 1972. The album version is the only version I have, really, *without* the solo, which i find kind of interesting. |
| Kamenliter 02.10.2010 16:11 |
There's an old radio interview with Brian (circa 1977 or so) where someone calls in and asks about the meaning of this song. Brian begins to explain it, getting as far as saying something along the lines that he wrote it while he was in school..and then the interviewer cuts him off about something else and they never return to the question. Very frustrating as it seemed Brian was about to tell us the meaning behind the song. |
| rhyeking 03.10.2010 15:53 |
He said he wrote it in school? As in Imperial College? If that's accurate, it's very interesting. "White Queen" he confirmed to have written in IC about a girl he pined for and said that Smile never worked on it. If he wrote S&D around the same time, it's another song Smile has no record of working on it either during that period. According the Concertography, it was one of Queen's earliest original tracks (as in not having been a pre-Queen song from Smile or Ibex/Wreckage, or a rock and roll cover). I'd love to hear that interview. When and how artists wrote songs, lyrically anyway, has always fascinated me. |
| John S Stuart 23.10.2010 14:22 |
If I recall correctly - the official explanation claims it's about being an only child, and that all males are female. |
| Holly2003 23.10.2010 15:08 |
rhyeking wrote: He said he wrote it in school? As in Imperial College? If that's accurate, it's very interesting. "White Queen" he confirmed to have written in IC about a girl he pined for and said that Smile never worked on it. If he wrote S&D around the same time, it's another song Smile has no record of working on it either during that period. According the Concertography, it was one of Queen's earliest original tracks (as in not having been a pre-Queen song from Smile or Ibex/Wreckage, or a rock and roll cover). I'd love to hear that interview. When and how artists wrote songs, lyrically anyway, has always fascinated me. =========================================================== I thought White Queen was about the moon ... |
| rhyeking 23.10.2010 16:06 |
Re: White Queen From Brian May.com, via Queen Vault.com: Brian May: "White Queen - back in time again - I wrote this at College, where I led a relatively sheltered life, even though the University on the whole was a pretty rampant pace! I had been reading "The White Goddess" by Robert Graves, which explored the role of the idealised Virgin/Mother/Queen/ figure in art through history, and the name for our group, decided just around that time, fitted in with this perfectly - which was one of the reasons I was convinced to go with the name. The personal side is bound up with a girl (of course!) whom I saw every day at College, and was to me the ultimate goddess. It's incredible in retrospect, but because I held her in such awe, in three years I never had the courage to speak to tell her, or even speak to her. The song found its way on to tape much later, on our second album" |
| ukebloke 18.11.2014 10:34 |
If he said he wrote it at school he was probably referring to Hampton Grammar School as, unlike in the USA, the word 'school' isn't used to refer to college / university in the UK but secondary or high school. The guitar solo seems to have its roots in the Smile song 'Blag', if not earlier, evolving as part of the live version of 'Son And Daughter' before finding its eventual home in 'Brighton Rock'. As for the meaning there seem to be some potential pseudo-religious references in there: "Tried to be a teacher and a fisher of men" "What'll you think of heaven if it's back from where you came?" "...I'm gonna save the world" Was the teenage Brian May at least in part wrestling with the concept of God, perhaps even the traditional depiction of the deity as male? |
| Sebastian 29.11.2014 17:06 |
FAIK, he did talk about that once on the radio. He said that it was about what happened if people treated boys and girls the same. He then briefly explained that a man and a woman are equals, but they're not the same. |
| The King Of Rhye 30.11.2014 11:07 |
GratefulFan wrote: I think one take on the song is that it reflects the feminist movement raging at the time and how he perceived it to have propelled women, or perhaps one woman, to places he didn't like or was uncomfortable with. 'Son and Daughter' to me is just 'Man and Woman', and he feels resentment or disquiet or sadness or something surrounding some of the aggressive social changes of the time. His was the first generation of 20 something men that had to deal directly with a fairly radical and new face of feminism. He wants his woman to be a woman, whatever that meant to him. Lots of clear and fairly literal references to this possibility I think. Themes too of cautioning that a woman might feel disillusioned with where she finds herself at the end of it all, - the references to shovelling shit and wondering what she'll think if she finds that she was happier before in the 'what will you think of heaven if it's back from where you came'.Well put..........that;s always how I viewed the song.......never seemed autobiographical.............just cus he says 'you' and not 'I' in the song I guess............. |
| The King Of Rhye 30.11.2014 11:09 |
rhyeking wrote: According the Concertography, it was one of Queen's earliest original tracks (as in not having been a pre-Queen song from Smile or Ibex/Wreckage, or a rock and roll cover).The story is that it was the first song that they had John Deacon play at his audition to join the band............ |
| The Real Wizard 30.11.2014 12:28 |
^ interesting. Where'd you read that? |
| Sebastian 30.11.2014 16:15 |
I know the question's not directed at me but as far as I remember, that's what 'As It Began' implies. |
| The King Of Rhye 30.11.2014 22:16 |
I believe I read that in the "Queen The Early Years" book..........possibly somewhere else as well................ Yeah, probably in As It Began............but I havent read that in eons...... |
| madprofessorus 05.12.2014 15:08 |
never liked this song,it's too rip off from Led Zeppelin,so...don't care for the lyrics.Although I Gotta admit that it worked good on stage,it helped Queen in their beginninh |
| Ank1fl1z 06.01.2015 07:02 |
Lol, I always thought Freddie is deeply in love with a guy, but he feels its wrong, you know he didn't admit being gay then, so he says "I, want, you, to be a woman". Oh and btw "Tie Your Mother Down"'s meaning in my opinion : Brian wanna go out with this girl but her parents disapprove of him cause he's a musician, so he tells her to tie her mother down, to ignore her or whatever so she could be with him |
| cyndagoaway 07.05.2019 01:49 |
son and daughter is a song about how before Brian was born his parents lost their daughter in a miscarriage (Sail Away Sweet Sister) and they still hadn't quite fully recovered from it yet. So they had treated brian like a little girl when he was younger, and he was fine with it. but when he got older he was expected to be an ideal man by the rest of the world and had no idea how to present himself. Brian grew up as both a girl and a boy, so he struggled with how to present himself both internally and externally. |
| Dr Magus 07.05.2019 15:36 |
cyndagoaway wrote: son and daughter is a song about how before Brian was born his parents lost their daughter in a miscarriage (Sail Away Sweet Sister) and they still hadn't quite fully recovered from it yet. So they had treated brian like a little girl when he was younger, and he was fine with it. but when he got older he was expected to be an ideal man by the rest of the world and had no idea how to present himself. Brian grew up as both a girl and a boy, so he struggled with how to present himself both internally and externally.Yes and Brian was particularly nonplussed on his when his parents bought him a bra for his 13th birthday. |
| dysan 07.05.2019 15:45 |
That's when he wrote Bra-ton Rock |
| The Fairy King 08.05.2019 20:17 |
Only child syndrome |
| Sebastian 10.05.2019 13:54 |
dysan wrote: That's when he wrote Bra-ton RockThis made me giggle more than I'd expected. |
| aristide1 10.05.2019 14:09 |
Do you have giggle level targets Ray? |
| matt z 13.05.2019 14:02 |
*goodco* wrote: I always that it was written to a supervisor at a wastewater treatment plantME TOO! It's so obvious! |
| King of all Queen fans 17.05.2019 23:10 |
Maybe it’s about the forbidden love between brother and sister? Who knows? |
| incider 18.08.2019 22:32 |
The gender role explanation makes the most sense of the lyrics, imho. But the point above about the difference it would make with Brian singing is well taken. I would have been quicker to see this point of view that way. |