| Queenrockyou 05.09.2010 05:45 |
Yet another bootleg which contained tracks from the 1973.09.13 London, Golders Green Hippodrome show. ONLY FOR COMPLETISTS, as the ultimate multi-sourced recording has been shared by Pittrek a few days ago. Many thanks to him for his invaluable work. QUEEN 1973.09.13 London, Golders Green Hippodrome "THE ULTIMATE COLLECTION VOL 3" From the silvers Lineage : "THE ULTIMATE COLLECTION VOL 3" silvers -> WAV (EAC) -> Flac level 8 (Traders Little Helper) Tracklisting : 01. Procession 02. Father To Son 03. Son And Daughter 04. See What A Fool I've Been 05. Ogre Battle 06. Liar The link : link Once again, artwork modified to perfectly suit this recording, as the original bootleg contained tracks from other shows. The artwork has been included in the megaupload link, but for those who already have the files, the artwork will be shared as separate files in the coming posts. Regards, Olivier, Belgium. |
| Queenrockyou 05.09.2010 05:46 |
artwork (front) : |
| Queenrockyou 05.09.2010 05:46 |
oops |
| Queenrockyou 05.09.2010 05:47 |
artwork (back) : |
| The Real Wizard 05.09.2010 13:09 |
Olivier, thanks for playing the role of completist superhero. It's good to have all the old bootlegs to compare to the later ones. |
| riccardo 06.09.2010 10:06 |
Sir GH wrote: Olivier, thanks for playing the role of completist superhero. It's good to have all the old bootlegs to compare to the later ones. It's true, you are a superhero Olivier! |
| tassilo 15.10.2010 02:52 |
Thank you! |
| PiotreQ 15.10.2010 05:32 |
Thanks :-) |
| TimBHM 26.12.2010 17:46 |
Thanks - nice to know I'm not the only completist! |
| bokkepoot 20.01.2012 09:39 |
Megaupload is down :( So.....time to repair some links here and there, starting with the ones from 1973 !!! :) 1973.09.13 London, Golders Green Hippodrome (The Ultimate Collection Vol 3).rar (155,2 MB) link edit 28-01-2012 new links: link |
| The Real Wizard 20.01.2012 10:49 |
Thanks Marco. You're doing great work ! |
| The Real Wizard 12.02.2017 19:38 |
So I just dug this old bootleg out and gave it a listen, and there's a pleasant surprise - this is the only copy of See What A Fool I've Been from this show without the distortion that's apparently on the BBC master. This recording isn't quite as good as other bootlegs of the show, but it's still the best copy of this particular song, indicating that it was probably taped off FM radio - perhaps the original October 20, 1973 broadcast? So we have to wonder - what is this "master" copy that apparently leaked out from the BBC? It's the copy that was first bootlegged in 2004 ("Queen Will Be Crowned" on the Digital Queen Archives label), but it certainly can't be from a master copy if there's a clean copy of SWAFIB on a bootleg from the 90s that probably goes back to a tape from the 70s. And if QP couldn't locate it for the On Air release and had this backup (or one similar to it) to rely on, we can all but assume that the master was wiped. |
| The Real Wizard 12.02.2017 22:35 |
From another thread:
Negative Creep wrote: However, that story is certainly "interesting" - how does a Queen fan in Scotland find out about said tape being saved by an engineer and why would the BBC support it? I wasn't aware by that point in time that the BBC were still chucking their masters out? Anyway, it sounds somewhat farfetched! More like a dodgy BBC employee rifled the archives and flogged a few tapes to collectors via auction or record collector or something. Stuff like that does happen - a cleaner once flogged loads of DATs of unedited live recordings on eBay and privately before getting found out and returning the unsold DATs (DATs were used through the 90's and early 00's and replaced reel as master tape format at the BBC).^ the existence of a clean copy of SWAFIB lends credence to this theory. So the question is - how did this copy survive if the master didn't, and why is half a song transferred hotter than the rest of the show to the point of being distorted? Furthermore, the "master" copy clearly isn't a master copy if part of the DJ's opening speech has been edited out. |
| The Real Wizard 12.02.2017 22:37 |
Here's the clean copy of See What A Fool I've Been: |
| cmi 13.02.2017 01:28 |
Wow! I'm surprised that there's a version of this show with clean SWAFIB. Please anyone re-upload it as all links are dead now... How I overlooked this version before, I don't know... |
| The Real Wizard 13.02.2017 02:56 |
cmi wrote: Wow! I'm surprised that there's a version of this show with clean SWAFIB. Please anyone re-upload it as all links are dead now... How I overlooked this version before, I don't know...link Have fun :-) |
| cmi 13.02.2017 05:05 |
Very nice. Thanks a lot! |
| . 13.02.2017 11:09 |
Interesting, thanks. |
| . 13.02.2017 14:04 |
I had a listen, I wonder why the first two tracks are such bad quality. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 01:26 |
What does the Archivist have to say on the state of the master tapes? |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 13:36 |
Barry Durex wrote: What does the Archivist have to say on the state of the master tapes?Don't hold your breath for a response. The BBC clearly wiped the master in 1973 or not long after it. The content of On Air pretty well confirms that, as their source tapes are no better than ours. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 13:57 |
Not really, all it confirms is they like to butcher releases. |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 14:11 |
Ha, fair point. But we can still be pretty sure that they don't have a better copy. All the evidence is here in this thread. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 14:26 |
That's just it, there is nothing in this thread which I would call evidence of them not having a clean copy. The fact that it isn't on Queen On Air means nothing. |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 14:27 |
If laziness is their MO, then surely it would've been easier to use the better copy than to go through the effort of axing a song of an inferior copy for quality reasons. Credit where credit's due - they did due diligence in seeking the best possible tapes for BBC sessions 1-6. The tape doesn't exist. We can be 99.999999999% sure. If there was a better copy, it would've been included. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 14:32 |
This is QPL. If they have it, it doesn't mean we get it. We are lucky if they even tell us what they have. They axed plenty of songs on Queen On Air, doesn't mean they don't have them does it? |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 14:48 |
Cutting songs for space reasons is different from availability of tape. You schooled me on conspiracy theories the other week. Maybe you should take your own advice here. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 15:13 |
It's hardly a conspiracy theory when I say they might have it, I accept they might not. The difference is I make no judgement until I see some actual evidence either way, and I haven't! |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 15:16 |
Barry Durex wrote: all it confirms is they like to butcher releases.That sounds like a judgement to me. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 15:19 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Really, is that all you got?Barry Durex wrote: all it confirms is they like to butcher releases.That sounds like a judgement to me. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 15:23 |
The BBC sessions were the release, the rest of the crap was butchered bits and pieces - fact. |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 15:24 |
Barry Durex wrote:I've clearly outlined a logical course of events, and you're clinging to biases and unable to see things on a case by case basis.The Real Wizard wrote:Really, is that all you got?Barry Durex wrote: all it confirms is they like to butcher releases.That sounds like a judgement to me. You're usually pretty bright, but you're missing the mark here. |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 15:25 |
Barry Durex wrote: The BBC sessions were the release, the rest of the crap was butchered bits and pieces - fact.Yes - agreed. But the Golders Green segment is also a BBC recording. You are choosing to assume that QPL didn't seek a better tape. I am not. And I'm also citing the well-known fact that the BBC normally wiped tapes into the early 70s for reuse. With the quality of the rest of the BBC material, it's clear that QPL did their homework to find the best possible source tapes. Sessions 2 and 4 are far better than what we'd heard before. Why would they work with the BBC to search for tapes and work out distribution of royalties, and then release an inferior version to what they found? It just doesn't make sense. Sao Paulo, Mannheim, and the interviews were indeed needlessly butchered, but Golders Green had its reasons - they didn't want a song with distortion, and they likely didn't want to deal with royalty issues for the medley of covers. Try to see the forest through the trees. It all makes sense. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 15:49 |
You are missing the mark, that's not what I'm saying at all. My unbiased judgement on the 6 disc set is that it was butchered, but I also believe of course the material used is the best quality they managed to find. My comment saying they like to butcher was in jest. I honestly don't know why they left off the tracks they did, but I do know it's a fragmented mess. None of this confirms the state of the material that is in the archives, which is why I put it to the Archivist earlier in the hope he may enlighten us. |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 16:42 |
re: Sao Paulo and Mannheim: "They don't like it when small mistakes in the performance are heard." "They've already released complete shows from those tours, so teasers are good enough since most people will find the full shows boring." Don't hold your breath for any more than that. |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 17:29 |
There is never any harm in asking a simple question, no matter how unlikely it is you might get an answer. I happen to know there is a transfer of SWAFIB from Golders Green that sounds about the same quality as the rest of the tracks from On Air. Whether there is an even better transfer in the official archives is still open to debate. |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 18:14 |
Barry Durex wrote: I happen to know there is a transfer of SWAFIB from Golders Green that sounds about the same quality as the rest of the tracks from On Air.Without the distortion in one channel for the second half of the song? |
| Barry Durex 22.03.2017 18:46 |
Yes, it was on youtube briefly a short while ago but was then removed. I listened to it through headphones on my phone. I can't be the only person who heard it. |
| The Real Wizard 22.03.2017 23:27 |
Barry Durex wrote: Yes, it was on youtube briefly a short while ago but was then removed. I listened to it through headphones on my phone. I can't be the only person who heard it.Well, if people just want to carrot dangle and delete their videos quickly, then these things may as well not exist at all. Not the first time, and not the last. |
| Barry Durex 23.03.2017 01:24 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Well, if people just want to carrot dangle and delete their videos quickly, then these things may as well not exist at all. Not the first time, and not the last.If you say so. The way I look at it is it's proof of it's existence and I'm glad I at least heard it. There was also a valid reason for it's removal and it was not a carrot dangle in my opinion. I think we've had a similar sort of exchange before and I accept we have a different point of view. What I will say is when you accuse someone of carrot dangling then you should be 100% sure you're right, otherwise you have done yourself no favours at all. |
| dysan 23.03.2017 01:30 |
The BBC wiping tapes / Queen having great master copies = Queen recorded their early BBC sessions completely at Trident and presented them as done at the BBC As evidenced by being able to 'remix' the BBC SWAFIB on the 2011 version of QII. |
| aristide1 23.03.2017 10:12 |
As the rabbi said: You're both right. Because thankfully you are both using the private logic of the enthusiast fan. But when someone is on a payroll or under a contract, maybe fulfilling the deadline or going home earlier is more important than finding the best copy. Read Steve Hoffman awkward statement about his 2015 Queen vinyl remasters. He "had to do" the job that way because he used an old crappy 24/96 old restoration software (at least that's what I understand reading between the lines). The strange thing is that he is also right, he couldn't master 10,000 albums if he didn't stick to some kind of routine. So, don't expect miracles from hired people working from 9 to 5 (if you don't agree with me you are right too). |
| The Real Wizard 23.03.2017 14:21 |
Barry Durex wrote: What I will say is when you accuse someone of carrot dangling then you should be 100% sure you're right, otherwise you have done yourself no favours at all.Perhaps. But if they have the time to put it onto youtube, quickly take it down, and post it nowhere else ever again, you can be pretty sure it's carrot dangling. |
| The Real Wizard 23.03.2017 14:23 |
aristide1 wrote: Read Steve Hoffman awkward statement about his 2015 Queen vinyl remasters. He "had to do" the job that way because he used an old crappy 24/96 old restoration software (at least that's what I understand reading between the lines). The strange thing is that he is also right, he couldn't master 10,000 albums if he didn't stick to some kind of routine. So, don't expect miracles from hired people working from 9 to 5 (if you don't agree with me you are right too).If that's how busy these guys are and they're not able to do a decent job due to time constraints and/or apathy, then the obvious answer would be to hire different people. There is no shortage of qualified recording engineers looking for work. |
| . 23.03.2017 15:42 |
I have only ever removed one YouTube clip from the 257 on my channel since starting it, and now I am a carrot dangler? Never mind all the shares I made on QZ over the years. Like I already told you, I gave the tape to my Son and It didn't seem right to leave it on YouTube. He has now said he doesn't mind if I re-post a YouTube clip, so that's me all square with my carrots now. Oh, and please feel free to share everything you are holding back, for whatever reason. YouTube would be fine by me, better to at least see or hear it there rather than not at all eh? |
| The Real Wizard 24.03.2017 00:58 |
The Kurgan wrote: I have only ever removed one YouTube clip from the 257 on my channel since starting it, and now I am a carrot dangler?I wasn't talking about you, man. 256:1 is a pretty good ratio. The Kurgan wrote: YouTube would be fine by me, better to at least see or hear it there rather than not at all eh?Obviously. But why use that medium if it's just as easy to upload copies without quality loss here? |
| Barry Durex 24.03.2017 05:27 |
I do realize I'm not as bright as I used to be, my hearing is shot to pieces and I'm obviously misreading this thread, but who are you actually talking about then? Can you also upload any un-circulated material you have............in lossless please? |
| on my way up 24.03.2017 10:17 |
Barry Durex wrote: I do realize I'm not as bright as I used to be, my hearing is shot to pieces and I'm obviously misreading this thread, but who are you actually talking about then? Can you also upload any un-circulated material you have............in lossless please?You didn't mention that the youtube upload of the "See what a fool I've been"-version without distortion was done by The Kurgan. There was no way of knowing for the Real Wizard this earlier upload was done by The Kurgan. Also, The Real Wizard has uploaded plenty of uncirculated stuff, lots of lovely speed-corrected recordings and he's often the first to do a re-upload whenever someone asks for it... And - by the way - I've never seen him with a carrot, dangling or otherwise. |
| Barry Durex 24.03.2017 10:32 |
on my way up wrote:linkBarry Durex wrote: I do realize I'm not as bright as I used to be, my hearing is shot to pieces and I'm obviously misreading this thread, but who are you actually talking about then? Can you also upload any un-circulated material you have............in lossless please?You didn't mention that the youtube upload of the "See what a fool I've been"-version without distortion was done by The Kurgan. There was no way of knowing for the Real Wizard this earlier upload was done by The Kurgan. Also, The Real Wizard has uploaded plenty of uncirculated stuff, lots of lovely speed-corrected recordings and he's often the first to do a re-upload whenever someone asks for it... And - by the way - I've never seen him with a carrot, dangling or otherwise. I appreciate RW uploads plenty of stuff and I'm not accusing him of carrot dangling, I'm just being sarcastic. |
| The Real Wizard 24.03.2017 10:53 |
Barry Durex wrote: I do realize I'm not as bright as I used to be, my hearing is shot to pieces and I'm obviously misreading this thread, but who are you actually talking about then?Literally anyone who does their business this way. Can you also upload any un-circulated material you have............in lossless please?I have spent nearly 20 years seeking Queen recordings and spreading them freely. I have sourced (sometimes at great cost) and shared literally hundreds of tapes here and elsewhere, plenty of them previously uncirculated, always with transparency and lineage provided, and always open to dialogue if someone thinks they have a better copy. Do you have any specific request, or are you just exercising a sense of entitlement to things you've done nothing to find? What exactly have you contributed here? |
| Barry Durex 24.03.2017 10:59 |
You're the King, I am not worthy. |
| The Real Wizard 24.03.2017 11:00 |
Your true colours are showing. It doesn't look good on you. |
| Barry Durex 24.03.2017 11:02 |
You seem to be diverting away from the subject. |
| The Real Wizard 24.03.2017 12:31 |
What more needs to be said? I made my point, and now you're trolling me. Why don't you look for an uncirculated Queen tape to upload to youtube instead of always expecting others to? |
| Barry Durex 24.03.2017 13:26 |
Don't be silly. The thing is I really don't want to know what you have or why you don't want to share it. I believe if somebody doesn't want to share something then that's fine. If they only want to share part of it, or only put it on youtube then that's fine too. It's not nice to be hounded into sharing something is it? |
| The Real Wizard 24.03.2017 15:14 |
Barry Durex wrote: I believe if somebody doesn't want to share something then that's fine. If they only want to share part of it, or only put it on youtube then that's fine too. It's not nice to be hounded into sharing something is it?Of course not, nor will calling them on it change their mind. But sometimes it just needs to be said. There's a reason why not a single person can say a bad thing about Dan Lampinski, Joe Maloney, and the JEMS guys - because they don't put out samples and disappear into the night. They come up with the goods every time, and never leave people wanting more. Of course I realize that not everyone does it like this, but these fine folks and countless others have set the example for the rest of us to follow. |
| Barry Durex 24.03.2017 15:41 |
Well I am only a partially deaf, short sighted troll who's losing the plot apparently, but here's my tuppence worth anyway. I'd sooner know what's out there, even if it is by way of a youtube clip. I know from past experience they can develop into something more. A recent example is Dortmund '79. So I will always welcome these little uploads and hope they continue, rather than treat them as a dangling carrot. If you do that you tend to get all bitter and twisted. Besides that there are some people who are perfectly happy with a youtube clip and don't download anything. Traders might use youtube as a way of advertising, that's fine too. What gets traded eventually gets out. You surely know that. |
| The Real Wizard 24.03.2017 16:39 |
Barry Durex wrote: I know from past experience they can develop into something more. A recent example is Dortmund '79.Indeed. So therefore that clearly wasn't carrot dangling, and nor am I referring to Kurgan at all, as he came through there and many other times, as he's already pointed out. I'm not sure why you (and even he) thought this is about him particularly - it isn't. |
| Barry Durex 24.03.2017 17:53 |
Probably because you acted like you hadn't seen the upload before it was removed when in fact you had. Then you went on about deleting videos, carrot dangling etc. |
| Saint Jiub 24.03.2017 20:42 |
Barry Durex wrote: Probably because you acted like you hadn't seen the upload before it was removed when in fact you had. Then you went on about deleting videos, carrot dangling etc. ... I find myself praying for the return of RnR yet again ... |
| Barry Durex 25.03.2017 05:22 |
Panchgani wrote: I find myself praying for the return of RnR yet again ...Is that a feeble attempt at stoking the fire? |
| Saint Jiub 25.03.2017 20:29 |
Actually I am pleased that the fire has died. As the Kurgan explained, there was no intentional carrot dangling, and thus The Kurgan's son subsequently gave his OK to share again on YouTube,despite your overblown conspiracy accusations. Perhaps a thank you for The Kurgan might be appropriate now? link |
| . 26.03.2017 05:47 |
Well he always thanks me, and I think all the points he made here are pretty valid. |
| . 26.03.2017 06:51 |
I have now updated my YouTube channel a little bit and the clip title now shows if a full flac was shared on here. I don't share everything, but I do share a fair bit and quite a lot of the video stuff on there is also available on QZ in VOB or MKV. I'm afraid I haven't marked them, so you will have to find that out for yourselves. Please enjoy my channel for what it is, I try to keep it interesting and perhaps you might see a little clip you haven't seen or heard before. link |
| The Real Wizard 26.03.2017 21:14 |
The Kurgan wrote: I have now updated my YouTube channel a little bit and the clip title now shows if a full flac was shared on here. I don't share everything, but I do share a fair bit and quite a lot of the video stuff on there is also available on QZ in VOB or MKV. I'm afraid I haven't marked them, so you will have to find that out for yourselves. Please enjoy my channel for what it is, I try to keep it interesting and perhaps you might see a little clip you haven't seen or heard before. linkCool, thanks for posting this stuff. Top Ten Guitar Heroes - Brian's description of Seven Seas Of Rhye is hilarious. And an interesting clip of the crew working in 82: link If it's from Vienna, then the bit of concert footage at the end is different from the existing three songs - it's earlier in the show. Judging by the tempo of the hand claps in the audience in the Brian and Roger shot, I'm pretty sure it's towards the end of Under Pressure. It fades out after that. Is there more concert footage, or is that all there is? |
| . 27.03.2017 08:58 |
Vienna, nothing that hasn't been seen before. |
| The Real Wizard 28.03.2017 14:30 |
Only the last three songs of the Vienna show circulate, and Brian is in a different outfit. I'm pretty sure this hasn't been seen before. Or do you have something the rest of us don't? |
| . 28.03.2017 14:41 |
I mean all of the REST is the same, the YouTube clip contains just that extra little bit of footage. |
| The Real Wizard 29.03.2017 00:22 |
The Kurgan wrote: I mean all of the REST is the same, the YouTube clip contains just that extra little bit of footage.And even a few seconds of footage is a huge find ! These things make me wonder how much footage is collecting dust at TV stations or the Queen archives. Those few seconds of footage have suddenly created the possibility that the entire show was filmed. Your youtube clip fades out. Is that where the actual footage fades out, or did you do the fade out? |
| . 29.03.2017 05:59 |
It ends on the fade out. |