GratefulFan 01.08.2010 15:39 |
From subtle lyrical or mood choices through unambiguous tribute songs, Freddie's illness and death likely helped to shape several Queen songs and solo efforts via the lyrics, music, video or performance. A place to discuss the first, the last, the best, the clear, the speculative, the most effective etc. etc. I'll start with Roger Taylor's 'Old Friends'. When the song is that clearly a tribute to a lost friend you also have a great deal of respect for and for whom you even have your own sense of loss of a sort, it's difficult to separate that and judge the song on it's objective merits. So with those limitations in mind, I do like it. I like the music and I like the essence and I expect it's an accuate reflection of Roger's relationship with Freddie which I've always seen as easy, warm, affectionate, not particularly deep, and with a great deal of mutual respect. The song is marred a little here and there by Roger's tendancy to insert something kind of jarring or trite in the middle of lyrics that were otherwise tripping along nicely, but on the whole I'm glad it was created and shared. |
Back2TheLight 01.08.2010 16:09 |
I'm pretty certain Brian's 'Nothing But Blue' was about that whole situation if I remember correctly. I think I remember a quote of his that I read somewhere that he had written it not long before Freddie passed. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong... |
plumrach 02.08.2010 02:52 |
Just listened to both songs mentioned and they are both very good tributes to the loss of a what was obviously a great friend |
inu-liger 02.08.2010 06:20 |
Speaking of "Nothin' But Blue", I honestly think the guitar version in itself totally sounds like a Pink Floyd type composition, with small uncanny similarities in style to the later PF track "Marooned", even right down to an inherent mixing 'defect' with the drum sound that goes from slightly muddy to expanded clarity all of a sudden within a second or two (around 0:46 in NBB Guitar Version, ~4:00 in Marooned though slightly more subtle). Nothin' But Blue could probably have even substituted well for "Marooned" I think! |
GratefulFan 02.08.2010 12:53 |
Regarding 'Nothin But Blue', Brian said something like he arrived home feeling down about how close he felt Freddie's impending death was, how he had a feeling it was going to be happening very soon, and he poured those feelings into that song. I think it was either the Friday or Saturday evening before the Sunday. You can tell it's been composed to work perfectly for a romantic relationship as well so as not to lock the listener into one experience or understanding of the song. A mark of the professional that Brian was and is. If I recall, 'No One But You' went through similar reworkings to move from what was a fairly specific lyric relating to Freddie penned by Roger to a more general lament about people who died too young, like Princess Diana. The video of course invites fans to see it through the prism of Freddie, and beautifully at that. I wonder if those original lyrics are still around? An interesting period to consider is the Magic-Miracle period, when Freddie suspected or knew, but the rest of the band really didn't. I'm going to think about that. |
freddiefan91 02.08.2010 13:04 |
Its possible he may have known what was to come as Exes and friends had started to develop the disease towards the latter part of 86 so mabe during the magic tour he had an inkling of what was to come According to one source he had a negative test in late 85 but the virus can stay undtetcted for a while apparantly |
Regor 02.08.2010 13:07 |
AFAIK bambam is right, I think I read somwhere that Brian one day felt that "Freddie was ready to leave", and the words just came to his head. The music is co-written by Brian with Cozy Powell for the drummers' solo album (as was "Resurrection"). Brian just used is as a vehicle for this spontaneous inspiration. I still really like the song a lot, despite it being "recycled". "Old Friends" is a different issue: I absolutely adore the song! It was released a year or so after BTTL and it just has this nice sort of "distance" to it, but at the same time is absolutely honest and haunting. That for me is a song someone writes for a friend who has passed away with a bit of time gone by. Lovely lyrics, honest, not too tearful, just a look back on the great times they had. The music is not sombre, very light, it does not rock, it's what one would play at a gathering of friends, mourning the passing of a true friend but celebrating his life. Considering Rog's sometimes shallow lyrics (don't get me wrong - I love his solo work more than any of the others) this is a wonderful song. Brought me to tears back in 1994. More than once. |
freddiefan91 02.08.2010 13:51 |
There is a few songs on the miracle and inneundo album where the lyrics of certain songs certainly make you think about the impact it was having on the guys for example For Roger to come up Days of our lives which is such a beautiful song for Freddie to sing as his farewell song if you like Scandal i know Brian said it was about the tabloid press and his marraige but some of it was probably to do with Freddie's illness Show must go on is a fantastic song which Brian and Freddie came up with |
Legy 02.08.2010 15:20 |
freddiefan91 wrote: Its possible he may have known what was to come as Exes and friends had started to develop the disease towards the latter part of 86 so mabe during the magic tour he had an inkling of what was to come According to one source he had a negative test in late 85 but the virus can stay undtetcted for a while apparantly _________________________ I remember reading that as well. Back in the 80's, testing wasn't as accurate as it is today. Luckily for us, we can get accurate results in less than three weeks after exposure. He could have been infected with HIV but not known about it until he developed full blown AIDS. Which seems to be the case. But, he knew around the time the Magic Tour started. I remember Brian mentioning the band had an argument during the first few shows of the Magic Tour. Fred then mentioned to the boys they should stop arguing since this would be the last time they would tour. It's part of the Live at Wembley DVD. |
GratefulFan 03.08.2010 14:49 |
Brian has stated that he believed Freddie knew or strongly suspected on the Magic tour, because of things that have been pointed out here - the onstage comment and the disagreement when John Deacon was being really stubborn about something and Freddie said something to the effect of "Look, I'm not going to be doing this [touring] forever. This could be the last time." Brian implied that kind of took the air out of the room and defused whatever was going on, but they didn't know then if Freddie had just said something impulsive in the moment or if he was trying to tell them something about the future. Some people have said the last show at Knebworth show seemed to be extra emotional, so it's possible that some of the latter shows on that tour were impacted. People slag off 'Hitman', but I think there's a strong possibility that it's a pretty brilliant take on what the HIV/AIDS blight was doing to the gay community. With the frequent references to love and lyric choices like 'waste that brother' it was what I thought the first time I heard it. Freddie's expression of the lyrics was almost perfect if that was the case. |
Regor 03.08.2010 15:44 |
I always loved Hitman. Aggressive, unusual, kinda prog-metal and perhaps the heaviest song apart from SHA. And the lyrics also for me are maybe the clearest statement about his illness, perhaps more than Mother Love or TSMGO. Very significant, but also musically enjoyable, great solo in the long outro. One of my Top 10 Tracks. |
Holly2003 03.08.2010 16:02 |
I just noticed somethong about the title of thos thread -- "impacted" --- is that a real word or did Grateful fan go to Springfield Elementary, where such cromulent, embiggened and debigulated words are the norm? ;) |
GratefulFan 03.08.2010 16:23 |
Holly2003 wrote: I just noticed somethong about the title of >>>>> thos <<<<< thread -- "impacted" --- is that a real word or did Grateful fan go to Springfield Elementary, where such cromulent, embiggened and debigulated words are the norm? ;) =================================== Ah yes....Springfield Elementary. Sigh. The memories. Those crazy Pepsi running shoes with the big wedge heels, the cool orange stapler I had that nobody else did, crushing on Sean McNamara, learning to spell 'this'. Good times. |
Holly2003 03.08.2010 17:38 |
GratefulFan wrote: Holly2003 wrote: I just noticed somethong about the title of >>>>> thos <<<<< thread -- "impacted" --- is that a real word or did Grateful fan go to Springfield Elementary, where such cromulent, embiggened and debigulated words are the norm? ;) =================================== Ah yes....Springfield Elementary. Sigh. The memories. Those crazy Pepsi running shoes with the big wedge heels, the cool orange stapler I had that nobody else did, crushing on Sean McNamara, learning to spell 'this'. Good times. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You missed my "somethong" --- Me flunk English? That's unpossible. |
GratefulFan 03.08.2010 17:56 |
No, I just figured it was punctuation/spacing thing. "I just noticed some thong. About the title of this thread..." Sorry. In that case, yeah, it's 'something'. You just noticed 'something' about the title of this thread. |
Holly2003 03.08.2010 18:52 |
My fingers just want to go to the 'o' instead of the 'i'. In much the same way, my fingers keep spelling 'beleive' the wrong way, even though I known how to spell it. I have the same problem with some songs on the guitar -- I know how to play Spirit of the Radio, for example, and some days I can do a passable effort, but most days my fingers keep taking me to the wrong place. Very frustrating. |
mike hunt 04.08.2010 01:40 |
I alway's thought Roger's "you had to be there" was about freddie. Not sure if this tune was mentioned yet. |
GratefulFan 04.08.2010 21:07 |
Regor wrote: I always loved Hitman. Aggressive, unusual, kinda prog-metal and perhaps the heaviest song apart from SHA. And the lyrics also for me are maybe the clearest statement about his illness, perhaps more than Mother Love or TSMGO. Very significant, but also musically enjoyable, great solo in the long outro. One of my Top 10 Tracks. ================= I always really liked Hitman too, right from the first listen. Aggressive and unusual is a great way to put it. And those intriguing lyrics, punched out with such perfect dark glee. I think it's often too quickly dismissed. |
GratefulFan 04.08.2010 21:39 |
mike hunt wrote: I alway's thought Roger's "you had to be there" was about freddie. Not sure if this tune was mentioned yet. ==================== Thanks for bringing this up. Just gave it a listen and a lyric read through. It seems maybe a little intense to me to be about Freddie. Do you have a particular reason for thinking that? |
GratefulFan 04.08.2010 21:41 |
Holly2003 wrote:My fingers just want to go to the 'o' instead of the 'i'. In much the same way, my fingers keep spelling 'beleive' the wrong way, even though I known how to spell it. I have the same problem with some songs on the guitar -- I know how to play Spirit of the Radio, for example, and some days I can do a passable effort, but most days my fingers keep taking me to the wrong place. Very frustrating. ======================== I bet a lot of people mess up believe. I have to backspace on that one with the very same error at least half the time I write it. Just remember there's no " I " in 'team' and there's no " O " in 'this', and you'll be alright. There's also no "the" between 'Of' and 'Radio' in 'The Spirit of Radio', but it's very cool that you can play it, even sometimes. Unless there's some song called 'Spirt of the Radio' that I know nothing about, in which case I don't know if it's cool that you can play it sometimes. Every time I've typed 'spirit', including edits, I've typed 'spirt' and had to fix it. What a sad pair. I think I've edited this about 6 times. Good thing most of you people are sleeping. |
mike hunt 06.08.2010 01:13 |
GratefulFan wrote: mike hunt wrote: I alway's thought Roger's "you had to be there" was about freddie. Not sure if this tune was mentioned yet. ==================== Thanks for bringing this up. Just gave it a listen and a lyric read through. It seems maybe a little intense to me to be about Freddie. Do you have a particular reason for thinking that? Yea, I'm pretty sure the song is about freddie. roger was still in his greiving period when he wrote the song......Havn't listened to it for a long time, though it's one of those songs that has stayed with me over the years. A Dark Reflective song that brings back a sad time not only for Queen but for myself, the early to mid 90's period. Innuendo/Made in heaven got me through some tough times, both great albums. anyway, Some of the lryics that make me think it's about freddie are?....will listen to the song again and report back.........it's been a while since I heard it. |
mike hunt 06.08.2010 12:32 |
mike hunt wrote: GratefulFan wrote: mike hunt wrote: I alway's thought Roger's "you had to be there" was about freddie. Not sure if this tune was mentioned yet. ==================== Thanks for bringing this up. Just gave it a listen and a lyric read through. It seems maybe a little intense to me to be about Freddie. Do you have a particular reason for thinking that? Yea, I'm pretty sure the song is about freddie. roger was still in his greiving period when he wrote the song......Havn't listened to it for a long time, though it's one of those songs that has stayed with me over the years. A Dark Reflective song that brings back a sad time not only for Queen but for myself, the early to mid 90's period. Innuendo/Made in heaven got me through some tough times, both great albums. anyway, Some of the lryics that make me think it's about freddie are?....will listen to the song again and report back.........it's been a while since I heard it. ....'.He mentions a man he met, the sweetest moments that I ever had , most magical memories Ithat i recall.....When the man came out and complained in the hall (I think he say's) when I met you, you had to be there!'.....So roger starts the song meeting this man who shared some of his favorite, best, most magical memories......Then the darkness sets in.........."..the darkest hour i ever lived, the longest fall i ever felt, then the sun went in, and the night was hell, when you left me, you had to be there! " " the sweetest thoughts of happy day's that might come again, don't you're face, don't know you're name until we meet again, you have to be there" Of course this could be a love song, but since roger mention's "the man he met who complained" I believe the songs about freddie. i remember both brian and roger saying when they first met him he was alway's complaining about 'smiles" shows and how they could improve. Just my own opinion about this underated song. |
rhyeking 06.08.2010 13:30 |
'You Had To Be There' is an underrated song for sure, but I don't think it's a Freddie-related song. It sounds more like the character in the song is lamenting an ended romantic relationship. Here are the lyrics: the sweetest moments that i ever had the most magic memories that i recall (when the man came out and complained in the hall) when i met you when i met you 'you had to be there' the darkest hour that i ever lived and the longest fall that i ever fell and the sun went in and the night was hell when you left me when you left me 'you had to be there' the sweeteset thoughts that i entertain are of happy days that might come again i don't know your face i don't know your name till we meet again hope we meet again 'you have to be there' It's an easy trap to fall into to think that every song is autobiographical, especially with Back To The Light and Happiness? coming out not long after Freddie's death and both containing genuine songs which express their feelings ("Nothin' But Blue" and "Old Friends"). I may be wrong, but this is likely just Roger being vague and clever and tongue-in-cheek. Note that the title is in quotes, referencing the common saying "You had to be there," as we have all tried to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it, because they were there ("Dude, that horse kicking him in the head was hiliarious! What?...no, dude, you had to be there! Seriously!"). Putting the phrase (and the title itself) in quotes implies that Roger is having a bit of fun, juxtiposing the seriousness of the rest of the lyrics with the throw-away 'you had to be there'. As for songs influenced by Freddie's illness and passing, "Driven By You" was more directly influenced by that than a lot of other songs. I've heard of Brian asking Freddie if he should release the single and Freddie saying something like, "Of course you should! And if I die, it'll be a hit!" Prophetically, he did and it was! |
GratefulFan 06.08.2010 14:17 |
@mike - I don't think the lyrics describe meeting a man either. It sounds like it's about a woman, and he references the man in the hall as a shared memory around their meeting. Again though, I'm really glad you brought it up because I hadn't heard it. @rhyeking - I'd disagree that the 'you had to be there' is meant to be light or fun. I see it as rather more dark or cnyical. An expression of his sense that he is alone in the grief over this relationship, or that he somehow struggling to express it or have it legitimized. |
rhyeking 06.08.2010 21:33 |
GratefulFan wrote: @mike - I don't think the lyrics describe meeting a man either. It sounds like it's about a woman, and he references the man in the hall as a shared memory around their meeting. Again though, I'm really glad you brought it up because I hadn't heard it. @rhyeking - I'd disagree that the 'you had to be there' is meant to be light or fun. I see it as rather more dark or cnyical. An expression of his sense that he is alone in the grief over this relationship, or that he somehow struggling to express it or have it legitimized. +++++++++++++ What I said was that it implies Roger is having a bit of fun juxtaposing the line 'you had to be there' (cheeky) with the seriousness of the rest of the song. I did not say the song was meant to be light or fun. Roger is taking a bit of the piss out of himself and song, in my opinion, as if saying, "Yeah, it's a serious song, but geez, it's not *that* serious." |
mike hunt 07.08.2010 12:58 |
rhyeking wrote: 'You Had To Be There' is an underrated song for sure, but I don't think it's a Freddie-related song. It sounds more like the character in the song is lamenting an ended romantic relationship. Here are the lyrics: the sweetest moments that i ever had the most magic memories that i recall (when the man came out and complained in the hall) when i met you when i met you 'you had to be there' the darkest hour that i ever lived and the longest fall that i ever fell and the sun went in and the night was hell when you left me when you left me 'you had to be there' the sweeteset thoughts that i entertain are of happy days that might come again i don't know your face i don't know your name till we meet again hope we meet again 'you have to be there' It's an easy trap to fall into to think that every song is autobiographical, especially with Back To The Light and Happiness? coming out not long after Freddie's death and both containing genuine songs which express their feelings ("Nothin' But Blue" and "Old Friends"). I may be wrong, but this is likely just Roger being vague and clever and tongue-in-cheek. Note that the title is in quotes, referencing the common saying "You had to be there," as we have all tried to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it, because they were there ("Dude, that horse kicking him in the head was hiliarious! What?...no, dude, you had to be there! Seriously!"). Putting the phrase (and the title itself) in quotes implies that Roger is having a bit of fun, juxtiposing the seriousness of the rest of the lyrics with the throw-away 'you had to be there'. As for songs influenced by Freddie's illness and passing, "Driven By You" was more directly influenced by that than a lot of other songs. I've heard of Brian asking Freddie if he should release the single and Freddie saying something like, "Of course you should! And if I die, it'll be a hit!" Prophetically, he did and it was! I used too think the chorus on "where are you now" from roger was about freddie, not now though. Also. of course "too Much love will you on first listen. |
rhyeking 09.08.2010 01:30 |
Back in the day, I had to convince a guy on my class that "Just One Life" was NOT about Freddie, eventually pointing to the actual "dedicated to Philip Sayer" in the liner notes. I didn't know who Sayer was at the time (I've since learned that he was an actor and friend of Anita Dobson's). |
GratefulFan 10.08.2010 01:11 |
rhyeking wrote: What I said was that it implies Roger is having a bit of fun juxtaposing the line 'you had to be there' (cheeky) with the seriousness of the rest of the song. I did not say the song was meant to be light or fun. Roger is taking a bit of the piss out of himself and song, in my opinion, as if saying, "Yeah, it's a serious song, but geez, it's not *that* serious." ======================== Still don't get that sense in the delivery. 'You had to be there' is something we say in many situations when we realize we are failing at conveying the essence of a situation, not just situations where hilarity ensues. The lyric still seems more irony or cynicism to me than meant to subtly shift the emotional tone of the song. Could also be a double entendre meant to imply that the woman wasn't adequately engaged in relationship. Or, it could be what you said. That's the great things about well written songs - they can be anything. I like your point about the timing of Brian's solo release. That's an angle I hadn't thought of for the unenshapening we've been discussing. Though perhaps Roger is the guy we need to consider more for that because I think he made a deliberate choice to stay out of circulation because of his own take on what respecting Freddie meant. I wonder what changes that - could we characterize it as a delay? - may have had on his future material. Songs reshaped just because more time elapsed between initial concept and ultimate public performance. I don't really know what stage Roger was at with writing/recording in late 1991/early 1992. Interesting angle anyways. Continuing on, I think it's quite possible that we would not have had 'The Miracle' (song) were it not for Freddie facing mortality but still well enough to marvel at life and appreciate in a way he never had to before. |
mike hunt 10.08.2010 03:17 |
GratefulFan wrote: rhyeking wrote: What I said was that it implies Roger is having a bit of fun juxtaposing the line 'you had to be there' (cheeky) with the seriousness of the rest of the song. I did not say the song was meant to be light or fun. Roger is taking a bit of the piss out of himself and song, in my opinion, as if saying, "Yeah, it's a serious song, but geez, it's not *that* serious." ======================== Still don't get that sense in the delivery. 'You had to be there' is something we say in many situations when we realize we are failing at conveying the essence of a situation, not just situations where hilarity ensues. The lyric still seems more irony or cynicism to me than meant to subtly shift the emotional tone of the song. Could also be a double entendre meant to imply that the woman wasn't adequately engaged in relationship. Or, it could be what you said. That's the great things about well written songs - they can be anything. I like your point about the timing of Brian's solo release. That's an angle I hadn't thought of for the unenshapening we've been discussing. Though perhaps Roger is the guy we need to consider more for that because I think he made a deliberate choice to stay out of circulation because of his own take on what respecting Freddie meant. I wonder what changes that - could we characterize it as a delay? - may have had on his future material. Songs reshaped just because more time elapsed between initial concept and ultimate public performance. I don't really know what stage Roger was at with writing/recording in late 1991/early 1992. Interesting angle anyways. Continuing on, I think it's quite possible that we would not have had 'The Miracle' (song) were it not for Freddie facing mortality but still well enough to marvel at life and appreciate in a way he never had to before. I think Queen would have wrote more songs like the miracle, a winter's tale, these are the day's of our lives as they aged. We are more reflective as we get older. Not sure if those particular songs would have been recorded at that time if he wasn't sick, but you have to figure even if they were all Healty at 45 or 50 they would have wrote less about Fat Bottomed girls or a young boy in love with his car , and more about life's wonders. Though as sick as freddie was they still wern't serious all the time.....'Headlong, I can't live with you, my Baby does me' and so on. |