| GratefulFan 17.05.2010 10:24 |
... about the state of musicanship today http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/alice-cooper-listen-to-burt-bacharach/article1570491/ |
| thomasquinn 32989 17.05.2010 14:53 |
He's got a point, though. Too few musicians know how to do their job well. |
| inu-liger 17.05.2010 15:32 |
ThomasQuinn wrote: He's got a point, though. Too few musicians know how to do their job well. ======================= Another problem he's not directly addressing is that musicians these days, the post-Classic MTV generation, have very unrealistic expectations about a LOT of things, and these American Idol type 'reality' TV shows add to these superficial expectations. There is no dynamic with a lot of local bands I've also noticed. Here in Edmonton, a lot of scene bands I've noticed are into the types of music that end in 'core': trashcore, deathcore, metalcore, etc. but it to me sounds ALL THE FREAKIN' SAME! It's just dirty grunge music with incomprehensible singing that rather reminds me of the sounds of retching, hence why I call it puke singing music. I CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE SINGING! |
| Mr Mercury 17.05.2010 17:06 |
inu-liger wrote: There is no dynamic with a lot of local bands I've also noticed. Here in Edmonton, a lot of scene bands I've noticed are into the types of music that end in 'core': trashcore, deathcore, metalcore, etc. but it to me sounds ALL THE FREAKIN' SAME! It's just dirty grunge music with incomprehensible singing that rather reminds me of the sounds of retching, hence why I call it puke singing music. I CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE SINGING!And here is the other problem - you are turning into your parents!!! And I agree with you..... |
| inu-liger 17.05.2010 21:28 |
Mr Mercury wrote: And here is the other problem - you are turning into your parents!!! And I agree with you..... ====================== I've always been an old school style musician. Grew up with a mix of good old 80s/90s rock :-) |
| its_a_hard_life 26994 17.05.2010 21:31 |
GO ON ALICE!!!!!!!!! |
| Winter Land Man 18.05.2010 02:15 |
Once Alice Cooper and Iggy Pop went to Brian's house to party, but they thought Brian was too weird and strange, so they booked it. |
| dragon-fly 18.05.2010 13:13 |
He's right, what else to say? It makes me sad that their generation is slowly leaving the scene. Dio- another blow. It's just slowly coming. And we'll be left with really poor replacement. |
| KillerQueen840 18.05.2010 18:11 |
Alice is the MAN. I love him to death and wish more people (perhaps I should say my youthful peers) would realize what a great impact he has had on rock and roll, and starting "shock" rock in general. |
| Micrówave 19.05.2010 04:39 |
Alice says: But try and find me a young guitar player. They’re very, very hard to find. I go see bands in Los Angles, and when they get to the part of the song where the lead guitarist should take off – the Jeff Beck part – they just play the rhythm right through it. I ask the guy, “why don’t you fill that in?” And they say, “Oh, this is modern rock – we don’t do that.”Well first, it's Los Angeles, since no one seems to proofread articles anymore. And second, not every song has a "Jeff Beck part". Maybe Alice should go back and listen to Poison and that era and realize he suffered the same problem during part of his career. Maybe Alice should listen to a band like Green Day. He probably won't, because there's not a "Jeff Beck part" on every song. But the drumming is far better than anything he ever did. The music may not be, but the musicians are. Maybe Alice should listen to artists like Lady Gaga or Duffy. Sure Duffy's "Mercy" doesn't have a "Jeff Beck part" but it's got some killer Farfisa Organ parts, no Jeff Beck needed. Maybe Alice should look at Jeff Beck and then himself and realize he sounds like my Mom and Dad back in the 70s and 80s, when there were no good "Les Paul" or "Ricky Nelson" parts. |
| thomasquinn 32989 19.05.2010 06:13 |
Maybe you should take your head out of your ass and stop for a moment to consider what AC *meant* by "the Jeff Beck-part". It does not, surprise, surprise, mean that you suddenly throw in a Jeff Beck-lick. It means, quite simply, an instrumental fill. In other words - something short of a solo but beyond rhythm playing. |
| Micrówave 20.05.2010 03:18 |
Maybe you should pull your head out of Alice's ass... or Jeff Beck's. It's 2010, not 70s era solo rock. But you've probably not listened to current radio for about 15 years so why even comment on something you know very little about? The current state of music has little room for solos. And just because you can solo, doesn't make you a good songwriter. Alice had to bring in Bon Fricking Jovi to write one of his albums and he's going to talk about the state of music? Sweet Caroline doesn't have a Jeff Beck part, so I guess it's a shitty song. |
| inu-liger 20.05.2010 04:05 |
"The current state of music has little room for solos" Well of course not! It's WAY too commercialized towards the dumb masses, and we only have greedy record companies to blame for that since they have quite a heavy hand invested in radio stations and the kind. There's very little GOOD music with wide dynamics, and I am frankly not surprised that that's showing with the local scene bands I commented about previously. People are NOT being encouraged to become good musicians, instead they're being brainwashed with all this crap and becoming quite ADHD in terms of how they look at music. "And just because you can solo, doesn't make you a good songwriter" People have to start somewhere. You can't write music if you don't have the skills, patience and passion required. "Sweet Caroline doesn't have a Jeff Beck part, so I guess it's a shitty song" That's not Alice's point, in that EVERY song has to have a "Jeff Beck part." What he's saying is that most songs are too simplified, and ThomasQuinn is right about the instrumental breaks - you don't a whole lot of it incorporated in today's music, even so-called "modern rock" And I agree with ThomasQuinn on another point, Microwave - you DO need to pull your head out of your ass. You seem to pick fights with people here everyday, way more than I do in a week. You do know that having too much personal pride is a sin, right? |
| andreas_mercury 20.05.2010 06:31 |
why argue to a man who does not know his own business, or rather the one he claims to know .... i think you microwave should declare what are you actually a man of - music, or something else complete? if you care about real music at all you wouldnt even talk about the radio to day because it is filth. queen best music was never on the radio ...... same goes to every band and artist... you lack all credentials to be authority here in even any sense. stick to your cabarets... |
| The Real Wizard 20.05.2010 09:08 |
inu-liger wrote: "It's WAY too commercialized towards the dumb masses, and we only have greedy record companies to blame for that" Indeed, but it's nothing new. Did you see the "top 100 one-hit-wonders of the 80s" on Much More Music the other day? It only proves that appealing to the lowest common denominator is not a new thing. They're just finding new ways to do it. As for Alice Cooper... for a guy who plays obscure older music on his radio show, maybe he should go beyond today's mainstream to find that there's a lot of damn good music happening right now. After all, Jeff Beck never really has been a mainstream name. |
| its_a_hard_life 26994 20.05.2010 10:03 |
KillerQueen840 : "Alice is the MAN". HELL YES. :D |
| Micrówave 20.05.2010 16:06 |
And I agree with ThomasQuinn on another point, Microwave - you DO need to pull your head out of your ass. You seem to pick fights with people here everyday, way more than I do in a week. You do know that having too much personal pride is a sin, right?Not when I'm right. What you fail to see, inu-liger, is that TQ and YOU are both musical morons who apparently only listen to CDs that they've owned for over ten years. PROOF OF YOUR IDIOCY: "And just because you can solo, doesn't make you a good songwriter" People have to start somewhere. You can't write music if you don't have the skills, patience and passion required.Michael Jackson was writing songs when he was 7. So he had solos, skills, patience, and passion all mastered at 7, huh? Radio still is a very current format, just nowadays we have internet radio, satellite radio, and still the good-old fashioned radio. That's how you hear new music. Not sitting around waiting for the new Ozzy CD. And let's look what Ozzy did in 2001. He re-recorded Diary and Blizzard to remove the original band member's performances because they sued him. So he destroyed good music for money and personal pride. Plus, while you accused me of picking a fight (Note: TQ started the agressiveness, as he always does), you failed to address anything relevant, like Alice's shitty Poison album. Where's the good instrumentation on that? Where's the Jeff Beck part there? Bottom line, Alice is just mad that his records don't sell like Lady Gaga's. |
| Micrówave 20.05.2010 16:07 |
You want a good song with great instrumentation by one of these pee-wee wankers? Try Fireflies by Owl City. The first time I heard that song two years ago, I knew it was a hit the moment it hit my ears. Sure enough, top downloaded song of 2009. Great song, very well written, and great instrumentation. Better than anything Alice has put out in the last 15 years. |
| thomasquinn 32989 21.05.2010 07:50 |
I can only smile with a mix of pity and "schadenfreude" at Microwave's remarks. The desperately self-conscious "this is modern rock so we don't have to solo, dude"-attitude he seems to be defending says it all - he's missed the point completely, as per usual. Oh, by the way, Microwave, I'm neither an Alice Cooper nor a Jeff Beck-fan. There's another one of your prejudices down the drain. @Sir GH: Yes, you are right that good music matching the characteristics AC mentions is being made outside the mainstream, but that does not mean that Cooper isn't right in voicing this criticism - the fact remains that pop and mainstream rock are heading in the same direction as they were for a while in the '90s, namely away from proficient musicianship and towards a situation where the only technically capable person involved in making a record is the engineer, as was the case with all those synthetic groups we are so happily rid of. I for one think that the increasingly lazy and apathetic mainstream is long overdue for a refreshing new start, where it is "the best music we can sell" rather than "anything we can sell" that drives the recording industry. It is painfully obvious, though, that very few artists care for quality any more than their companies. |
| inu-liger 21.05.2010 18:37 |
"What you fail to see, inu-liger, is that TQ and YOU are both musical morons who apparently only listen to CDs that they've owned for over ten years. PROOF OF YOUR IDIOCY" WHAT proof? You are so fucked in the head, it's not even funny. I actually listen to a wide range of both new AND old music, I just don't care for most of the new stuff they put on radio. Emphasis on MOST, because for every 9 bad songs out of 10, there is one I will actually find "Hey, I really LIKE this tune I've never heard before!" I even seek out tons of music, both domestic and international, that piques my interests far more often than the average iTunes "top 40" listings. How old are you, really? "Michael Jackson was writing songs when he was 7. So he had solos, skills, patience, and passion all mastered at 7, huh?" He'd been singing since 5 years of age or so, so he had some experience going already - yet I HIGHLY doubt he'd mastered those skills by that age. You should know yourself, Mr. Music-Know-It-All, that GOOD skills take TIME to perfect, and even then no-one is ever 100% perfect. People can lapse and make mistakes you know, including musicians. And although MJ was VERY young maybe he DID find a passion already by that time which inspired him to start writing music. He could have easily gone the Elvis route otherwise and have people write his whole catalogue FOR him, but then we might not have ever seen many of his great tunes come to life either. "Radio still is a very current format, just nowadays we have internet radio, satellite radio, and still the good-old fashioned radio. That's how you hear new music. Not sitting around waiting for the new Ozzy CD. And let's look what Ozzy did in 2001. He re-recorded Diary and Blizzard to remove the original band member's performances because they sued him. So he destroyed good music for money and personal pride." What does the Ozzy part have to do with this conversation? And you know what, radio has always been a form of promoting new music out there. What you really mean to say is that the radio execs have only been experimenting in finding new ways of expanding radio beyond traditional means in order to keep people interested. "Plus, while you accused me of picking a fight (Note: TQ started the agressiveness, as he always does), you failed to address anything relevant, like Alice's shitty Poison album. Where's the good instrumentation on that? Where's the Jeff Beck part there?" Your points for the most part have been lacking in relevant sensible means to back up your point (eg. sources), so I don't think you should be talking, O Tunnel-Vision Sighted of Thee. Also, TQ isn't the source of all your negative postings and you know that, so I wouldn't go selectively picking my eggs out of a carton if I were you. "Bottomline, Alice is just mad that his records don't sell like Lady Gaga's." There will be a day when Lady GaGa's record sales fail to match Alice's sales in his prime. It happens to everyone, don't be so narrow-sighted you silly little boy. What goes up must eventually come down, that's the natural law of musical economics. |
| Micrówave 22.05.2010 13:14 |
Actually, I think Lady Gaga has sold more than Alice already. But since you fail to see what I've mentioned, lets make it more simple for you two simpletons. The average song length has dropped about a full minute since Alice's heyday. So an average song runs maybe 3 minutes. Where do you put the Jeff Beck part. I guess since Stone Cold Crazy has no Jeff Beck part, it sucks, too? I've picked three totally different artists: Green Day, Owl City, and Lady Gaga. All three are great musicians and entertainers. All you two have said is you listen to a variety of music. LIKE WHAT?!?!?! Muse? Dream Theatre? If you're so into a wide variety, then how come you're agreeing with Alice? You can't come up with three groups that have decent musicians? Again I say maybe you should expand your CD collection, nimrod. And a minor point, Inu-liger. I gave you "proof of your idiocy" in a pretty little box. And you totally missed it!!! Did I have to put it in bold shiny font, too? Why not read the entire post before spewing your nonsense? Then maybe you can address the points correctly. Next time I'll use a crayon and 28 point font. Will that help? |
| inu-liger 22.05.2010 19:48 |
Listen, I don't accept so-called "PROOF" from those who already claim they know everything about my music collection. YOU are failing to get the point here, not me. I am TRYING to see where it is you are coming from, but you are clearly not doing the same. So I'm just going to walk away from this argument here, because it's not worth my time. Have a nice day, O Tunnel Vision Sighted of Thee. |
| thomasquinn 32989 25.05.2010 05:31 |
Lady Gaga is not a "great musician". I do not even feel the need to back that statement up with arguments, because it is so evident. Green Day have potential, I just don't understand what they're trying to achieve. |
| GratefulFan 25.05.2010 12:11 |
I think Lady Gaga is definitely a significant musican and a significant artist. I also find that glaringly obvious. You gotta get past the panties people! :) |
| andreas_mercury 25.05.2010 12:23 |
lady gaga = talentless manufactured garbage adn a secretly hiding a penis to boot |